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Hi all,
First of all allow me to personally apologize for the state that this has been in for too long now. Even with the little time I had, I could have done more. I guess have a problem motivating myself if I know I cannot make something perfect.
Secondly, I have the pleasure of announcing a long-needed and overdue hardware upgrade which happened today and which should have made things much faster for everyone. I certainly notice a dramatic speed increase. More and faster processors are a Good Thing (tm).
Thirdly, and probably most importantly: Since I was so frustrated with being so time-constrained that I was not able to deliver perfection, I have taken the liberty to silently hire someone else to take care of the site full-time. Flar (username "Flar") had her first day at work today. I've had the opportunity to work with her on previous occasions, and I can tell you that she is one capable professional young woman. She'll need a little time to get rolling, but she and I will soon be managing the migration the system to yet better hardware, switching from phpBB to vBulletin, creating a new structure, cleaning up the ftp site and migrating the wiki to Mediawiki. She will then take care of daily moderation of the forums and all the other daily and weekly tasks that go with properly maintaining this site.
Fourthly, we will in future have ads. I don't like ads much, but there's simply no way around it if we want to make this thing rock again. We get quite a bit of money in donations. (Thank You! You pulled us through even when we did not deserve it...). But even if donations were to increase significantly after the upcoming improvements, they will still never pay for the combined costs of hardware, colo, bandwidth and Flar's salary. We will (ofcourse) make sure the ads are never of the in-your-face, moving-over-the-content, audio-at-full-volume kind, and we will most certainly not dare to have ads until the rest of the house is much, much, much more in order than it is now.
For now, feel free to fantasize about what XDA-developers could be, since we will now have both the machine-power and woman-power to do something with these ideas.
Peter Poelman
(who is looking forward to spending some more time with y'all soon)
Thanks for the post, keeping us updated - it is very highly appreciated
I can understand what you mean with finding it hard to get motivated when you know you can't reach the level of perfection that you'd like, so thanks for keeping up the good work anyway
Peter Poelman said:
(who is looking forward to spending some more time with y'all soon)
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Thanks Peter for the system update - we all look forward to seeing you and your expertise
Was wondering why I couldn't log on earlier... This is great now! Thanks Peter!
one word : THANKS
Thank you very much Peter :lol:
This really *is* fast now, thanks a lot!
much quicker now !
Thanks
Its a lot quicker, and I don't mind Google ads if you wanna use them I know how painful it is to run a site with no money!
btw, it seems that the database, which had some hickups before, now can't stand the speed of the site. I get frequent phpBB messages about failed DB connections. It only gets annoying when you press the submit button after writing a lot of text
Much faster now and looking forward to the future developments. I'm fairly new but have found this site really valuable and users are very helpful. And welcome to Flar
Why don't you set upa a shop to help keeping up with the costs? You could sell accessories like BT headsets, MMC/SD/memory sticks, extended batteries etc. and of course HTC phones.
I think the people here would prefer to buy at shop.xda-developers.com than anywhere else, especially knowing that it will help to offset the website's costs.
XDA Shop
I most definately agree. I would buy all my stuff from the xda site!!!!
I think I'm starting to get a little moist!
Good job! 8)
I love this site! My wife reckons that i should have married it instead of her (i spend alittle too much time on my laptop).
Welcome to Flar hope you enjoy us :lol:
Last thing i agree if you set up shop where we could all go and buy a good lil tiddley bits i would do my shopping here.
But ads are ok and i guess both would be even better from the site's point of view!
Good luck and thanks for the fantastic site!
Great news!
The site is indeed much faster to load
Don't apologize about the ads, try to get as much money as you can to make this site even better
Welcome onboard, Flar
Thanks and great job, Peter
Hi.
Just wanted to say that I personally wouldn't mind a few adds if I know they help to improve and maintain the site. I am sure others will agree.
I am also glad to hear about the upcoming improvements, but a bit worried about switching the system type.
Hope you wouldn't accidentally loose anything from the database or the users listing in the process.
Any way,
Good luck!
This is a great site.
thanks, it's a lot faster now
this is a great resource site and even though i don't like ads, i completely understand the need for them
I was not expecting any more donations, it was intended to be a release to those that had already donated. I intended to let things die down on here before a public release here and my last public release here. Then everything was blown out of proportion and people felt that they were obligated to donate in order to receive it. I wanted it to be released for those that already had donated as a thank you for your support and that I would publicly release in about a week.
I can not help that people make assumptions, this is not my fault. I can not help it that Midget and JasJamming (AKA CRUSTEL) have to play games. It was done so I could decide if I wanted to publicly release or not because of recent events. If it would not have been here it would have been on my site.
So those that still feel as if I am "charging" for a M$ product so be it, I can not help how you perceive what my intentions were. The rom will be released here it is just a matter of when, and will be my final release on xda. All future releases will be on my site where I am not under the scrutiny of biased individuals.
Just as he said
I donated to Custel a few days ago. I had no expectations as I have donated to others as well. A short time later I received a PM with his beta. I did not ask for it and he did not request more donations. He only said for me to try it, not distribute and report back. I think he is being unfairly criticized. If others got the impression that he was requiring a donation then IMHO they are wrong.
I appreciate the hard work of the many talented pros on this and other sites. You have taken this gear we call a phone to a new level. Getting into pi**ing matches does not further the cause in the proper fashion.
I truly have no horse in the race here. I just want everyone to know that from my experience Custel was always above board.
Mark
nuff said
Nicely done, Custel. I've always had a feeling that you are a man of intellect and integrity, and I never doubted your sincerity, nor your intelligence when it comes to resale of M$ property.
I think you are owed an apology (yeah, wait for that), and recognition that you were mature enough to come back here and explain your intentions.
I wish you all the best luck with your new (and pretty slick) site, and with all your future endeavors.
Best regards,
-Paul
CUSTEL said:
I wanted it to be released for those that already had donated as a thank you for your support and that I would publicly release in about a week.
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Honestly, that is how I read your intentions to begin with. It's what ensued thereafter that made things appear 'underhanded' and perhaps get blown out of proportion.
While it's admirable to say that you 'weren't expecting any more donations' (and I take you at your word that you weren't), you should have backed that up with not accepting any more donations nor giving anyone but prior donors access to your pre-release until such time as you made a public release, wherever that may be.
That said, every indication was (and still is) that those who donate will be given access to your ROM and until that point is cleared up, your actions will remain questionable and under debate.
You do good work, CUSTEL. Don't let it be sullied by some silly scandal.
vp3G said:
Honestly, that is how I read your intentions to begin with. It's what ensued thereafter that made things appear 'underhanded' and perhaps get blown out of proportion.
While it's admirable to say that you 'weren't expecting any more donations' (and I take you at your word that you weren't), you should have backed that up with not accepting any more donations nor giving anyone but prior donors access to your pre-release until such time as you made a public release, wherever that may be.
That said, every indication was (and still is) that those who donate will be given access to your ROM and until that point is cleared up, your actions will remain questionable and under debate.
You do good work, CUSTEL. Don't let it be sullied by some silly scandal.
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Good Point, from this point on those that donate to receive will not be given access to it.
CUSTEL said:
Good Point, from this point on those that donate will not be given access to it.
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Glad you see as such. Yep, that's all you needed to do to put the brakes on this mess.
Custel the Best
It is unclear to me exactly what happened, and that isn't important. What is important is the deterioration of XDA-Developers. Some of the best cooks are leaving. If this trend continues, what kind of place will be left.
Custel - I will continue to run 2.5, it is almost the perfect ROM for me. Please try to work this out. Maybe some of the moderators will see what is happening.
Mark
And as far ass JazJaming and we know how the rest of his clan is i wouldn't worry too much about them, They know your work is good and thats what makes them mad. They know you have a short temper and they try to piss you off in every way they can I just hope that some of the few good Mods left on this forum will try to clean up some of the favoritism that has plagued this forum. If you leave the forum i wouldn't blame you and i would probably do the same
Good luck to you man, and keep up the great work you do for all the nerds and n00bs out there
not to sound like a d***
Custel - You can call requesting money for access to your work anything you want... call it donating if you desire but please understand that others will call this the way they see it. My personal opinion is that I will call a bird a bird and when someone requires a "donation" before granting access then they are "selling" it. Of course, these are just the words that I choose to use. /shrug
Despiadado1 said:
Custel - You can call requesting money for access to your work anything you want... call it donating if you desire but please understand that others will call this the way they see it. My personal opinion is that I will call a bird a bird and when someone requires a "donation" before granting access then they are "selling" it. Of course, these are just the words that I choose to use. /shrug
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Would you like a quarter?
Sounds like the right thing to do - BTW Syndicate looks good with the 'n' in it.
gregross said:
Sounds like the right thing to do - BTW Syndicate looks good with the 'n' in it.
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LOL smartass, hey it was made at 4am so yea... lol
CUSTEL said:
LOL smartass, hey it was made at 4am so yea... lol
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He he - the (syndicate) site looks great -hopefully all of this drama slows down soon ...
misfitflt said:
It is unclear to me exactly what happened, and that isn't important. What is important is the deterioration of XDA-Developers. Some of the best cooks are leaving. If this trend continues, what kind of place will be left.
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XDA-Developers isn't about cooking ROMs. It is our work that makes ROM cooking possible. For each and every device, we first take it apart and build tools to unlock CID and SIM. We do this at great risk to our expensive new devices. When finished with this part of our work, we have allowed the flashing of other operator ROMS. Then we begin to decode the ROM image itself and build the tools to manipulate it. Finally, we unlock the bootloader and make it safe for the masses to flash.
When this happens, chefs appear and custom ROMs are produced. Bickering and fighting occurs. N00bs are bashed. Yet XDA-Developers are mostly done at this point. Go back through the older device forums and find out what folks like Buzz Lightyear went through. It's a repeated cycle.
My hat is off to the Hermes XDA Developers: pof, Des, OliPro, Tadzio, Bepe, mun_rus. I shake my head in wonder at these folks as I use their tools and hard won knowledge to perform XIP grafts on my latest Hermes ROM.
XDA developers are application gurus too and we provide critical fixes/patches. I'm a part of this as are folks like SuperDave and ViJay555.
Hermes is at EOL. Be happy to know that we will once again begin taking apart the next big device. We are looking forward to Kaiser and the next set of challenges.
XDA developers won't die when the Chef's star fades with their devices. We will be doing what this site is all about: making your next device better.
why is everyone arguing? i thought everyone had a common goal!!
things will be much better when certain people get of there high horse I believe. the n00b bashing is almost a given I'm sure that will never change.
austinsnyc said:
things will be much better when certain people get of there high horse I believe. the n00b bashing is almost a given I'm sure that will never change.
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Must we remind you of your first few posts?
@Sleuth: A really nice, concise synopsis...it should be stickied as a solo post ... a motto ... a mission statement.
I've only been 'round these parts for a few months now, and have barely learned how to make use of the end-parts of this EOL, and I am forever grateful for the wonderful experience. I've learned some things, hope to learn more, and am enjoying the ride.
I thank you and all the geniuses on your list. This site is amazing! A real tribute to what this Internet thing could be. An educational tool and repository for historical knowledge. Better than any library ... bringing that knowledgebase first to our homes and businesses, and now, to the palms of our hands.
But I digress (15 hours of work will do that to you).
Thank you for that last post...I really enjoyed it after a very stressful day.
Kindest regards,
-pvs
pvs said:
@Sleuth: A really nice, concise synopsis...it should be stickied as a solo post ... a motto ... a mission statement.
I've only been 'round these parts for a few months now, and have barely learned how to make use of the end-parts of this EOL, and I am forever grateful for the wonderful experience. I've learned some things, hope to learn more, and am enjoying the ride.
I thank you and all the geniuses on your list. This site is amazing! A real tribute to what this Internet thing could be. An educational tool and repository for historical knowledge. Better than any library ... bringing that knowledgebase first to our homes and businesses, and now, to the palms of our hands.
But I digress (15 hours of work will do that to you).
Thank you for that last post...I really enjoyed it after a very stressful day.
Kindest regards,
-pvs
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I second that!! im very new here too and pvs is right, this place is better than a library!!
bennec83 said:
I second that!! im very new here too and pvs is right, this place is better than a library!!
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Never said i was never a n00b myself or an angel
Does pretty much suck that everyone is leaving Xda though
****Last Day*****
Since money motivates some I'm starting a pledge thread for the DEV who roots an OTA stock version of Froyo on the EVO. For folks who are going to pledge here, please be serious and adhere to giving in the dollar or euro amount you are pledging. Understand these folks are doing this stuff on their free-time and with the money being offered we are hoping it will put a little more focus on getting this initiative completed sooner rather then later.
At minimum I am hoping for:
hboot.93 hack
Root Stock OTA Froyo 2.2 with Super User
Wifi Tether working
Everything else can stay the same in the ROM.
Once a Developer produces such an image with install instructions and is verified working, then those who pledge will insert funds to to the developer's Paypal account within 24 hours. Should be pretty simple. Again if you pledge, be a man or woman or your word and give this person what they earned.
I'm STARTING out with my pledge of $50 U.S. Dollars. Good luck!
**** Based on a Suggestion Going to include a deadline of 8/20 for the project to be completed to be eligible for the funds ***
Finally should a DEVELOPER decide they don't want the money, whatever is pledged here will be given to the XDA website donation link. And Please keep this to pledge donation amount replies.
(To admin, please make a sticky if possible)
Well it was a good attempt. I want to thank all of those who actually "PLEDGED" money and did not come to this thread to complain about the reasons why we put this pledge together.
For those that are stuck, I think it's time we face the music and consider one of two options:
Continue to Wait. (It's been 17 days since the release of OTA Froyo and no known exploit has been found)
Start looking at another device
I've decided to cut my looses and pre-order on an EPIC. It has been a pleasure being on the EVO side of the XDA forums. I wish the best of luck to everyone here and I hope one day root is achieved and that new bootloader is defeated.
Cheers
Never mind, the other thread is for an updated PRI for rooted phones.
By all means start a new thread.
I thought about starting a similar thread. Many developers have already put a lot of effort into solving this without monetary motivation. The only way I see this helping is if an HTC/Sprint person with access we don't have, helps out. The brightest minds in this community (dare I say anywhere) are already working hard on it. That, or maybe a non-Evo developer will start, but prob doubtful. Either way, $25 to support this. Save me from my stupidity/nonroot hell!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Since I am chronically impatient and therefore Dl'd the OTA I will throw down $10. Sorry I can't contribute more, new father here.
I can scrape together another $25 for the effort.
the price of one months tether
$30
So then are you guys planning on paying unrevoked tonight?
edufur said:
So then are you guys planning on paying unrevoked tonight?
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maybe you should go read again. you need to have a rooted phone already.
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. Normally, bounties are used for issues that nobody’s really working on, or for issues that have been worked on for some time, but are exceedingly difficult. What you’re doing here is setting a precedent where devs will be racing against each other to be first out the door with something that they’re all already working on, to win a monetary reward. I don’t know if that kind of precedent is a good idea.
2.2 root will happen, just be patient.
BTW, I’m no dev, so I can't speak for them, I'm just a member of the xda community. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see these kinds of threads. And that’s also not to say that the devs don’t deserve every dollar – they do! They kick ass in every way, shape and form. So maybe when they do root 2.2, send them a donation. But the reason I’ve been coming here since way back when I had the HTC Kaiser (although I only joined up when I got my Evo, I've been lurking here for years), is for the community and the people. Specifically people helping people, just to be helpful, and because they can, because they have the knowledge, and to show what can be done when the corporate locks are removed from a device so that it's capabilities are only limited to the coding skills of the dev, and the imagination of the community. Not for the money. To be frank, I think that if we keep going down this direction, we’ll all be worse off, and xda may change – and not for the better.
Just my $0.02, so take it for what it's worth.
And get off my lawn! Sorry - the above came out with a much more doom and gloom attitude than what I had intended. Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
fachadick said:
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. Normally, bounties are used for issues that nobody’s really working on, or for issues that have been worked on for some time, but are exceedingly difficult. What you’re doing here is setting a precedent where devs will be racing against each other to be first out the door with something that they’re all already working on, to win a monetary reward. I don’t know if that kind of precedent is a good idea.
2.2 root will happen, just be patient.
BTW, I’m no dev, so I can't speak for them, I'm just a member of the xda community. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see these kinds of threads. And that’s also not to say that the devs don’t deserve every dollar – they do! They kick ass in every way, shape and form. So maybe when they do root 2.2, send them a donation. But the reason I’ve been coming here since way back when I had the HTC Kaiser (although I only joined up when I got my Evo, I've been lurking here for years), is for the community and the people. Specifically people helping people, just to be helpful, and because they can, because they have the knowledge, and to show what can be done when the corporate locks are removed from a device so that it's capabilities are only limited to the coding skills of the dev, and the imagination of the community. Not for the money. To be frank, I think that if we keep going down this direction, we’ll all be worse off, and xda may change – and not for the better.
Just my $0.02, so take it for what it's worth.
And get off my lawn! Sorry - the above came out with a much more doom and gloom attitude than what I had intended. Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
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*******
I totally respect your view and agree that it should not be a money race. Open source is a beautiful thing and that is what I love about this platform. Developers craft their skill and share with others because they have a passion for what they do and not because they want to make money.
Once in a while though we should honor them for what it is they do and since the release of Froyo, it saddens me to read postings from individuals who are mocking people who upgraded their phone via OTA though there were warnings about it, lets face it, Froyo is an enticing update and unfortunately some folks jumped on it. But I also believe that there are a fare amount of people here who either recently purchased the phone or was in the middle of a warranty issue that ended up with an OTA'd Froyo and because these individuals want to mock and make these assumptions, it could be perceived that the only people who are begging for a root are the ones who OTA'd by choice. Regardless on how everyone got to OTA Froyo, we are here now and are patiently waiting for a workaround.
So in the hopes of offering in incentive not only to the fine work of developers here at XDA, but to help those of us who are stuck in limbo, I started this pledge to help get this initiative going.
fachadick said:
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. ~snip~ Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
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Agreed, so consider my contribution a donation to whoever roots this beast.
You can put me down for $20.00. Im in a slightly different boat than everyone else. My phone already had 2.2 on it when I picked it up. I dont know if it was that way out of the box or if one of the nice Sprint employees was kind enough to upgrade it for me. I paid for the phone/service when the store opened but didnt come back for the phone until after lunch because they needed to port the number, paperwork, etc and I didnt have time to wait.
That being said, I bought a bunch of software for my N1 which is now useless as I dont have root and Id really like to have that stuff back working again.
it's unfortunate that an open-source community, where devs work with free software, needs to resort to money to motivate people. i understand that there are devs out there who will do this for free because they enjoy doing it for free (so not all devs need money for motivation), but lets be real. you're promoting an environment where open source also means "but not for free".
there's no doubt that there are very very very talented devs here and maybe they do deserve some money. but what happens when they start thinking, "hmmm, if people are willing to pay just for root, I wonder what they'll pay for my services?"
cnstarz said:
you're promoting an environment where open source also means "but not for free".[/I]"
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Open Source doesn't mean the devs are working for free. If they want to sell their services then only those willing to pay shall receive such services. It is totally up to the devs.
jedwardmiller said:
Open Source doesn't mean the devs are working for free. If they want to sell their services then only those willing to pay shall receive such services. It is totally up to the devs.
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+1
Also, just because people are offering a bounty, doesn't mean that's why the devs are doing it. Like I said before, bounty or no bounty, someone will find a way to root froyo, and when that happens, I doubt that they'll have done it for the money.
Sent from my blah blah blah blah
bump..................................
Ok much better...
Should a developer decide that they don't want the money for their work, then what ever funds we have collected here, we'll donate it to the XDA forum paypal account to keep to site running. In either case the money will go to a good cause.
There needs to be a deadline tho. If not..it means it can be a year from now and still collect. I'd say by next Friday. A simple root will do, we can hold off for nand unlock. Atleast with simple root we can still tether which is what we mostly want.
Put me down for $20! I'm a newb with all this. Came over from the jailbreak world just last week. Can someone give me a heads up on how I donate the money once the root is released? Do these devs usually have pay pal donation function on there sites?
sent from my evo
I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I don't post too much, but I have gained much information here. This site has been an invaluable part of my Android hobby. I own 5 Android phones and a Motorola Xoom tablet, and thanks to XDA they are all rooted with custom roms and I use each one confidently. This site is full of great information and helpful people.
However, as of late, XDA seems to be putting out a bad vibe to many of its users. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms. They make demands of developers that will benefit only themselves. Instead of helping new members find the info they are seeking, they'd rather berate and belittle them publicly. The act superior to anyone asking a question. And on and on(trying not to write a book here). I am watching as developers that have contributed so much be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by elitist, rude "veteran" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA.
We cannot blame the site admin or mods, though i do hope to see them push the site in a different direction soon. It is on our back, the users of XDA. We are XDA. We need to remember that the devs are doing what they do for free, and for Android as a whole, not us as individuals. What happened to the great sense of community with Android. IMO, that was one of the best aspects of being involved with Android. There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I hope to see Android become a community again, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
abn75 said:
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
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Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
JimmyMcGee said:
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
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Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
chopper the dog said:
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
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Good point indeed.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
andr0id23 said:
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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No Sir I appreciate your Post. abn has been complaining about our inaction for a while and we ARE looking to improve and it just gets a little old hearing the same complaint over and over when you are working to make this a Quality Forum everyone, including us, wants it to be. I do apologize for my perhaps over-reaction, but it is hard to be constantly beat up on. Yes, us Mods/Admins do deserve some blame. But we have recognized it and we are trying to resolve the issue.
We all just do our best.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
you need to consider that back in its earlier days, XDA was all about this lil' group of people with WinMo devices learning to rip their mobile OSes apart. as the site grew in size and popularity, more devs came in along with more end-users who feed upon the products of their kitchen. once the android explosion began, there was no other way around the fact that a multitude of users would flood in where as the number of devs coming in would be far smaller.
i still remember just over a year back when i got to cooking my own WinMo ROM the community was growing but there were still devs around where ever you looked ready to guide and help around but now that the site's more popular than ever people flock here expecting miracles and are not disappointed either. it's so addictive that you have to stick around for more. but sadly the number of devs don't grows as fast as their end-user counterparts. that's why you see this problem today. we need the newer member to be willing to learn on their own, being patient with the progress of other devs and most importantly...READING.
just my two cents.
Open tech forums are always ripe for attrition due to many reasons.
The question here is, do we cater to the users or do we cater to the developers? It's pretty obvious that without developers, XDA wouldn't be much of anything.
It's my opinion that the 'elitist' attitude which you speak of from the senior members is something that SHOULD be done, as their point is to protect the developers from being inundated with trivial questions and not detailed bug reports.
Kyphur, another XDA Moderator, had this to say back in 2008 (in a similar thread) when we were a bit smaller, and it still holds true:
kyphur said:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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I think that there are problems here at XDA that are there partially because of the rather loose rules we have set in place.
Sure, the internet, like most places in our society, is one that is supposed to promote freedom of speech. But there is a monumental difference between debating and being immature. A large proportion of the members here grown adults, but it really, really doesn't seem anything remotely close to that quite a lot of the time. Quite a lot of "you ****ing prick"s and the like being thrown about between members. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous, like a bunch of rather scummy 13 year olds.
Part of that does seem to come from the allowance of swearing on the forums; not saying don't swear, because believe me, I'm the last person who'd say that...but I don't on here, merely because it's not the swearing or inappropriate language itself that causes the problem, but the behaviour that naturally comes with it. Many forums are banning the discussion of provocative topics such as Mac vs. PC, iOS vs Android etc. Obviously, this being a mobile device forum, that can't be done here, but there needs to be some moderator control over that. All because people can't help but be immature about it...
That's the worst bit of it.
As for developer vs. end-user, just look at the market now, as well as what the developers here are doing. Smartphones are now more accesible, and the variety between the OSs at their core is much smaller than it used to be. The developers are working hard to make the process of rooting, jailbreaking, any kind of software modification easier for the more technically inept user.
Developers can't expect this forum to stay a developer community if they are going to make their creations so easy to use So experienced users need to accept that XDA has now moved away from being what it's used to be. They need to try and be accomodating to less technical users.
However, the biggest problem here now are probably newer users. They simply don't read or search. Answers are having to be repeated over and over again, even when everything is in the OP...many users need to spend time reading, and they'll realise that a lot of the answers aren't even technical; just a bit of common sense and logical thinking and you'll get the answers you'll need.
In a way, a simple way of post once, sticky once, force end users to read it, and we'll get somewhere.
A lot of good posts here. I tried to word my OP carefully as to not point fingers. Or at least not to lay blame on any one group of people. And I can't claim to know the whole story as while I own a handful of Android devices, that is only but a small part of this site as a whole. I don't come close to visiting all the forums. I really like XDA. From what I see, it is one of the rare sites where thread, where i frequent, often stay on topic. This is due in part to the mods, and in part to the users directing newer members by telling them this isn't the right place to post, linking to an appropriate thread, or just giving a quick answer. However, it's when people start getting angry and calling other people out for not knowing something, being rude, blah blah blah, that I am seeing more of. If all someone has to say is "use the fu**ing search", or "wrong spot noob", there is really no reason to post anything at all. That isn't helping anyone. There are better ways of going about it.
And I think we all have to admit, the days of only the more technical users rooting and modding are coming to an end. Devs are making it easier, one click methods are popping up all over the place, everything is automated, etc. People no long need to learn what is going on when they root their devices. While I enjoy having that knowledge and using the abd method of rooting when there is a one click available, others certainly will not, and they often don't need to. Maybe this isn't the best decision in many of our eyes, but tt is a reality now. More and more people are hacking/modding/rooting every day, and many of them have not even used a command line. I mean hell, there is even an "adb for dummies program" that will install and set up adb for you in one click now!
Again, not point fingers, but I am saddened to see so many people arguing, so many snide, rude responses, people being so demanding and self-serving, and devs leaving the site. I realize that the site is bigger than ever, and that mods do this for free and don't want to waste time being "rudeness police". I don't have all the answers, just something Ive noticed for awhile now. Glad to hear the mods are working on it as well as they can. I know they don't want to see developers leaving. Let's face it, some of these developers have quite a following! Also, sorry they have to hear the same complaints over and over again, but, as I said, I'm glad they are looking into it(if there is even anything that can be done, and I thanks the mods, admin, devs, and users for making this such a great place to learn and share!
I am one million percent in agreement with this topic, but I think the blame is not xda per se... Now, this is MY OPINION, but the problem is as mentioned before, our current society... I said something similar on aamikam's MikG thread on the Evo forum, this is the result of the 21st century, where technology has made mankind do anything anywhere anytime with only a click, and the kids and teens of today are raised in this world of now, so is in their nature to have that state of mind, "I want this now"; and I know this is not all the world, but in general, this is the new way of life on this century, the age of now...
We can also blame the new parents of this era, the average parent now is in their mid 20s to 30s, low 40s and in general, are allowing their kids more privileges and liberties than they had just because "at your age I couldn't do it, but I'll let you do it, not like your grandpas who didn't allowed me do anything at all" and so on and so forth...
Anyway, just wanted to say something about this, good nite all..!
Edit: scroll down to find a newer petition. More like a poll I guess, more realistic anyway.
So the petition says we want it in March lol which is a bit unrealistic (duh). But let's hope Samsung will get the message that we want it as soon as safely possible. Sign if you are up to it
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Note8March17
Edit: I didn't start the petiotion so I don't know how this will work after. I suppose author will deliver it to Samsung somehow.
notefreak said:
So the petition says we want it in March lol which is a bit unrealistic (duh). But let's hope Samsung will get the message that we want it as soon as safely possible. Sign if you are up to it
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Note8March17
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Hmm, don't mind to sign the petition BUT, what's the $$$$ donations for?
PapaWangsta said:
Hmm, don't mind to sign the petition BUT, what's the $$$$ donations for?
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I think for the site, but only optional, not mandatory. I would not pay anything. I dien't anyway and no invoices so far.
Hey guys, here is another one. It is tailored more so that the demands and wishes are stated in the comments section. So each person can state their desires and hopefully Samsung listens this time.
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/note8-phablet-as-soon-as-possible
Let's encourage Samsung to rush releasing the Note8 release..
I'm absolutely sure nothing untoward will happen
Personally I'm hoping for an April 1st launch. Give them the time they need.
they are trying to recover their reputation, there is no way they will rush out a phone jest because a few people sign petitions.
no offence to the people doing this, but a firm in Samsungs position is going to have so really heavy research, development and testing before they even consider putting anything out the door. so unless Samsung is already well into the design and testing of the Note 8 even if they listened to the petitions you would be looking at months before they could even feel safe putting them in mass production and announcing the phone.
Well, those who wanted to wait, you got you wish. Note8 is delayed till Q4 and not because of safety issues but because they are now pushing Galaxy X ahead. Well done Samsung (not).
https://www.google.si/amp/m.gsmaren..._earlier_than_the_galaxy_note_8-amp-24285.php