Related
Sorry this is so long but I feel strongly about this.
I too have few posts as anyone can see. I joined in Sep '06 but have been an avid reader of this forum since my company bought me a Siemens SX66 several years ago.
While I have noticed a marked decline in the quality of posts on this site, I have also seen an amazing increase in the quality of products the senior people have put out.
I think this fact coupled with the rising popularity of Windows Mobile and HTC products is inviting more and more people who would be otherwise too scared to try flashing their expensive gear to feel comfortable enough to give it a go.
Personally, I consider this a hobbyist site and as such, while the senior people will only gain experience and become more adept at their hobby, the noobs will continue to be noobs with the same noob questions, just more of them.
If this site is ever to work as an open hobbyist site, then I think it behooves everyone to step back and take a breath and think about what that goal will require.
1) Seniors - as your skills improve, and you work in this hobby more and more, you will inevitably see more and more of the same questions. Have mercy on the noobs. Truly some are lazy leechers others are perhaps "just getting their feet wet." Everyone has to start somewhere and sometimes that "start" begins with what you may think is a dumb question but is considered valid to the user asking it.
2) Noobs - think about your questions before you ask them. Realize that you are getting the benefits of senior people in this hobby and treat them accordingly. They are doing more to give you free "customer service" than the companies that you gave your money to in the first place.
3) Everyone - I see this problem as having many smaller pieces that perhaps can be improved to help create a better environment.
a) The built-in vBulletin search function sucks arse. Someone posted how to search this site using Google. Perhaps removing the built-in search would get people more familiar with a better search tool and perhaps return more relevant entries.
b) Pay to play - If you are a serious hobbyist then paying a subscription fee to gain access to the hard work others have done should be worth it. You can't or won't pay then you are on your own.
c) Private or Tiered forum for more Senior folks. Entry could be by application/invite allowing a senior moderator to evaluate the applicants quality of participation first. This would also force noobs to start contributing to the group versus just leeching.
Lastly, I have seens several posts where it is obvious that English is not their first or even learned language. I have read the wiki for my device and I have had to read parts several times to understand them. I think for many to whom the language might be a barrier to participation a little extra patience should be granted.
This is an absolutely awesome forum. I have been a benefactor of the work others have done and have several devices that are much more usable, enjoyable and longer lived because of this site. It would be a shame for this forum to crumble under the weight of the hostility that has been present the last few months.
Please, let's all find a way to keep this site useful, friendly and enjoyable for all of its participants.
Some good points but I personally don't have any problems with the search as you have got the options to search the forums, narrowing down your options, and the search this thread to really go deeper.
What I have seen on other forums is - like you say in point c - a lockdown of specific groups until you've got a certain number of posts/been around for a while/been approved so that it can be established that you're familiar with the forum and don't just post crap/leech stuff. Maybe something like that could be employed.
But let's face it, the quality of releases lately has brought far more attention to this forum rather than those who would come here because they knew what they were doing.
Just my thoughts.
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
I agree with most of what you say.
I have been on this forum for more than 4 years now and it's been the best forum I have ever used to play around with my "toys".
Noobs are noobs and I even ask silly questions sometimes but I think that this site should remain the same.... It's a gold mine for every person like me wanting to play around and get the best out of his toy.
Long life to this forum
I've been on so many forums for so long and all of the ones that are any good have these very same issues. I recently read a post on a forum of another open source project that I absolutely love (Handbrake) and I think the post you can find here by one of their chief developers has some correlation to this current situation.
If you're too lazy to mosie over to the link...the gist of the post is that open source projects are just that. They are open sourced. That doesn't mean one has carte blanche to ask for help on this or that, to ask for this feature or that feature, to whine and complain, to moan and groan, or to trash somebody's work when it doesn't work like you want it to. It means that a usually small but dedicated group of individuals got together and tried to find a solution to a problem that they had. In the case of this post...it's about open source software...but I think you could say the same thing about ROM cooking here. There is enough information here that if you see or try something that doesn't work for you...try to fix it yourself (or as many have stated...search and see if it's already been fixed by someone). But in the end...I don't think you'll ever stamp out noob crap entirely. Think about it...just walk down the street or turn on your television or flip on your radio...how many idiots do you see or hear? Trust me...we are far outnumbered... But maybe...with a little help...we can at least edumacate em a little bit.
richy240 said:
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
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Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
The procedure how to get the info you need:
READ > SEARCH > THINK > POST
Sequence is important in that case!
Same applies to posts made entirely in language other than English > these are useless for vast majority of readers, please consider sending a PM when talking to your nationals.
'nuff said. Long live the XDA-Dev!
I think most of the gripes are about pointless posts eg, "whoohoo!", "cool", "downloading now" that just take up space and make getting to the valuable posts more difficult. Then there are the noob questions that are simple to answer but extremely annoying when repeating many many times. I am a noob to this forum and this phone but not about computers and porgramming. I have also made a donation to jasjamming and wish him the best. My proposal to end some of the madness is to seperate out the type of posts, which seem to be threefold 1. appreciation/useless banter 2. noob questions/simple questions 3. decent and high quality posts that make xda dev a great forum. So one thread about technical stuff that will contain good and useful info and another being the noob questions useless banter. Maybe split the noob questions and appreciation thread and forget about one or the other. This will make the mods life a lot easier and make reading the forum a lot more palatable and organise the threads in a meaningful way. Again sorry to see jasjamming go so soon after joining this forum. Hope he comes back at some stage.
KarhU said:
Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
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Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
Perhaps creating/moving this and other hardcore forums to private/access controlled area would help.
HoFo is part of the trouble but so is Google and search bots which read public forums. That brings a lot of new readers/noobs.
I've been on sites that have both public and private fora, and the Google/non approved members can't get at the private side which helps a lot.
Just so long as I'm a member of the private side.
Personally i think this forum would work better if there were more forums, say inside the hermes mobile 6 one there was one for each rom. Then if users were encouraged to post new topics for different faults the stupid pointless topics could just be ignored and end up pages back or even deleted while the usefull topics would stay near the top with only relavent content inside.
Anyway thats not for me to decide and just to note i hardly ever feel the need to post cos i've always found a fix for my problems by reading. It might take a few mins longer to find an answer than to start a post but it saves you looking stupid.
I fully support the idea of a subscription to the forums. I'm a member of another subscription-based forum, and it leads to more productive posts and queries, better quality of member base, and an intelligent quorum. That site is $9.95 for a lifetime membership, less a ban of course -- and I find that more than fair.
I don't post much either, I just soak up knowledge here. I try not to ask questions unless absolutely necessary, and instead reap the benefits from the great minds at work..
I love the forum and I think we all agree on this point. I am a moderator on several other PDA related sites. I know first hand how hard it can be to try and get the new folks to use the search function and read The Bold Print but I have found with my experience that using post counts to advance members to hidden forums only invites spam and useless posts. I can also say that wading through 80 sum pages of "thank you's" and "questions that where answered in the first post but I just looked for the link to download and didn't read" posts, is long and quite aggravating. Also trying to use the search function for things like finding a fix to an MMS problem is near to imposable. What I have seen here recently that I like is when something is released like a new WM6 build, there could be 2 treads started one for real questions (Advanced) and issues and one for the new folks to ask there new folk questions (Beginners). Not restricting access to the "Advance" tread, just the ability to post. I don't mind helping the new folks a little because I was new once. I can also say that I read information on this site for 4 days before I attempted to flash a new rom to my device. ( was scared to death ) and some of the questions the new folks asked, I also wanted the answer too. Lots of times some senior member would help them with a link or advice and this helped me also. I think if anything you should have to be a member here for say 3 or 4 days before you are allowed to post. Then maybe a week or two before you could post in the "Advanced" threads. This would hopefully send more new folks eager to find the answers to there questions, into the forums using the search and reading the comment of others a little more closely.
Just my thoughts
JD
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
Thanks button?
I will now throw my 2 cents in as well. I too have not posted much, but have managed to upgrade the ROM on my Hermes a few times without having to seek "professional help". I think we all appreciate the effrorts of the few that provide the rewards for the many. I used to be a SuperMod on a SonyEricsson modding site (before I found the Windows Mobile joy).
I have seen a "Thanks Button" used quite effectively - I think it is in the newer releases of vBulletin. It cuts a lot of the crap. Also, I would support a "no post for 10 days" and "read only, except by invitation" threads.
If you can express gratitude simply, have to read and learn for 10 days (and you KNOW they won't wait to try the flash) and get to read what the Seniors and Mods are saying and download the fruits of their labors, but cannot interfere, I think that would raise the quality of the experience for everyone. Sorry I went so long - I love XDA and want to see it continue to dominate.
PS: It is funny to see someone with the nick "poopmongrel" lamenting the low quality of the forum participants - ;-) That isn't meant to be mean, just funny!
richy240 said:
Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
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Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
chenga said:
Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
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I don't know... Probably not. I was really just talking out of my ass. But when someone answers like that, they obviously shouldn't expect an accurate answer. If someone said that to me after answering a question, I wouldn't give them the time of day.
Wasn't everybody a n00b at one time?
It would be a shame to 'close the forum down' to noobs. There's a first for everything. And -yes!- noobs can ask stupid questions, but you could just ignore them. I've read some good suggestions reading the threads complaining about the newbies on this forum. ("thank you button", "noob area" and "a timeslot between downloading/registering" eg.)
Without this forum I'm pretty sure my Hermes would still run on WM5 since there's no real alternative to this forum. The senior members and chefs provide information (at least I) could not find anywhere else. Like many junior members (I guess) I spend the most time reading and not posting. Reading and learning. So getting 'senior' by just posting will not improve the forum quality.
To bad some (a) chef(s) are just so fed up they don't share their work anymore, but I can understand. People should be more gratefull for their hard work. Especially if you do not have the skills to cook a rom yourself!
I think the problem is more than just asking questions, even basic ones. It is the attitude of some users who seem to expect the contributors of the ROMs to support them. As a software developer myself, I've experienced many such types who think that just because they downloaded your software for free, they are entitled to your support. I believe it is this sort of "stupidity" and arrogance that really gets the goat of those who work hard to contribute something.
In this case, the fault isn't merely one of tolerance, it is one of attitude. If a guy comes in and gets free stuff from you, and then turns back and demand you fix their machine, while bad-mouthing you - surely you can see how this will make the whole enterprise un-worthwhile for the contributor. Not only are they not getting any tangible remuneration for their work, they are now having to put up with such arrogance. Now, who in their right mind would want to continue contributing in a community that is unappreciative (though arguably there will always be those who are appreciative).
The key then is to keep the unappreciative out until they learn some respect and appreciation. When they learn that what they're getting is not a right but a privilege, out of the goodwill of the contributors. If they are not happy, they can go elsewhere and not use the product. If they're sincere, then they should make the effort to learn. Regardless of the complaints of how hard it is to use the search function (how hard can it be??). In this case the onus is NOT on the contributors but on the end-user.
I see this kind of scenario happening:-
1. Newbie hears about WM6 and thinks its so cool.
2. Pesters friend for link and ends up here.
3. Get excited at the level of activity and prospect of getting something for free.
4. Get frustrated because they don't know where to start.
5. Post basic questions about which is the best ROM etc.
6. Decides to go with the "best" ROM.
7. Bricks the machine or finds a bug or loses some features.
8. Get frustrated and angry and vents at the ROM chefs (or Olipro.
9. Tries to read site for the first time but too lazy to work through the posts (it does take time but that is expected.)
10. Pester others to help them unbrick their machine.
11. Unbricks machine and starts again with another ROM variant.
12. Cycle repeats itself.
I'm not saying that all newbies are like this. Many lurkers actually read through all the related posts. The problem we're facing has to do with those who want the benefits without having to spend the time reading and researching and learning some general knowledge about the ROM flashing process. To make things worse, these same types usually have attitudes of self-righteous indignation which makes them a pain to tolerate. This is the kind of person you want to keep out of the community. IMO.
Daniel
swtaltima said:
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
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I have to agree here. What ticks me off is the fact that alot of people here come in, flash a ROM without reading or researching then DEMAND a solution...not once...not twice...but sometimes three and four times in a short time span.
I have no right to DEMAND someone to fix something that either (1) I caused; (2) I didn't read enough to see that it was a known issue and flashed anyway; (3) a known issue with an open source software on a DEVELOPER's sight with I am NOT a developer.
What I see the issue to be is ingratitude, sense of entitlement and tender emotions. If you're feelings are going to get hurt then you shouldn't post. The developers here don't owe anybody here a thing. Plain and simple.
Politically correct? No. Do I care? No.
Jim
I Love Xda-developers.com!
Spread The Peace!
Seeing many crowded threads in the development and hacking forum get overrun by people asking the same question over and over again, not to mention the ones that will never get it to work right because they don't read that certain programs are not fully functional or still being worked on. I have come up with a new idea to ease the pain on developers and make certain areas less crowded.
I was thinking that there should be two areas in development and hacking, one is the pre-release/beta software that is work in progress. And the other is the released software that is fully functional not counting occasional updates.
Both forums could have the first post as a type of 'sticky' that is viewable if you are just on page 1, or all the way on page 552, with an option to hide it to save screen space.
Also the released software (and maybe even beta) should have a sort of, formatting guideline enforced by a moderator of that forum.
Something along the lines of;
_____________
Name:
Version:
Description:
[Screenshot(s)]
Current bugs/known issues:
Known working devices: (if applicable)
__________________
You get the general idea, of course it could vary slightly depending on the application.
Of course it is all based on theory and could be changed depending on the needs of the moderators or developers. But I do believe that it could help cut down on the amount of useless question posts, and also help organization and make it easier to find and search for.
Edit:
Another off the wall idea is another subforum just for requests and dev ideas. Could help clean up those posts/threads too.
problems with this is that PEOPLE DON't READ, its a good idea but would require a lot of time from moderators and admin.
No matter how well orginized something is though people are just lazy sometimes, everything you have requested people already put in the first post describing the program.
Yes, that is true. But sometimes it helps cut down on what i like to call 'stupid posting' where all they read is the title. And they will tell you even in marketing, people don't read. So there really is no getting past that. Just ways to make the skimmers and question happy people take a second thought to reading the first post, and only if the first post has enough useful information in it.
Moderators: I understand that this post is in the wrong forum, yet there doesn't seem to be a "XDA feedback" forum so I have no idea what the proper location is. I hope that a helpful moderator will move it to a proper location AND let me know where that location is.
XDA has changed quite a bit over the years. It used to be a "developer" forum. These days, not so much. In fact, and this is my problem, it almost feels anti-developer these days. If that's what XDA wants, great. If not, please take the time to read this message written by a developer.
I've been around XDA for a very long time. I've been a programmer for a much longer time. I think it's important to at least mention my professional qualifications, as this is (or was?) a DEVELOPERS forum, and I've been doing development for over 20 years. Going back only 10 years, I worked for Electronic Arts developing video games for both PC's and consoles. Unlike development here, game development has to be done right the FIRST time. There's no way to patch a game burned on to a cDROM for a console such as the original playstation, nor a way to fix a Nintendo64 cartrigde. (BTW, that was really a "rom" - not the firmware people call "roms" here on XDA.) I've also done quite a bit of development in various Windows CE platforms, including PocketPC (when I first started with XDA!) My current job has me doing (among other things) development on iOS, Android, and Windows Mobile. It's a very safe assumption that I'm extremely fluent with development on handheld devices.
Of course, as a hobby, I mostly work with Android these days. I've shared my work with people on XDA and rootzwiki, and when the changes could be applied to AOSP, I've shared them with CM and AOKP projects - as well as directly with Google via their gerrit system.
No, I don't have a "recognized developer" tag on XDA. I've never actually applied for it and currently have no interest in doing so. Part of my reason for that decision is that I feel XDA has given that tag out too freely. They've given it to people who don't actually do development, but just "kang" other people's work in order to collection donations. (I also don't accept donations, instead prefering people to send that money to real charities.) That's a different subject...
So, the purpose of this (already rambling) post is to try and give some feedback on the "current state" of XDA in general, of some of the moderators in particular, and to ask for a clear, consistent and easily understood set of guidelines.
I'm an engineer, and if the rules are fuzzy, it's impossible to clearly follow them.
So, here we go...
For any given phone model, there is a "general" subforum that is used for threads like "Post pictures of your phone" and "Where to buy this phone." Then there's a Q&A subforum that, I think, is where newbies are told to go to ask questions (and then other newbies respond with nasty replies.) There's a "development" subforum that, despite its name, is not to discuss development, but apparently only to post finished things. What those "things" are is a subject of debate, and I've heard many different things from different moderators. There might be an "original development" subforum which, I think, is used for development done from source (as opposed to modifying stock firmware?) Finally, a "themes and apps" subforum for theming existing work and misc applications.
There really is no place to discuss DEVELOPMENT for a device. Really, talking about the IO registers for a given device doesn't belong in the same place as "post pictures of your phone", and gets lost in the newbie questions in the Q&A subforum. Where does a developer discuss development for a specific platform? There's also no good place to share methods for doing development. For example, what's the best subforum for "HOWTO configure a N7100 kernel to work with stock firmware"? How about a thread that discusses how to modify the CSC files on a samsung firmware to enable features hidden by AT&T?
This all leads me back to the existing "development" subforum. At least for samsung devices, these generally end up being like an app-store for themed stock firmwares. (I refuse to call it a ROM when it's not "read-only.") There isn't any clear rule on what, exactly, is put in this subforum. One moderator posted "For something you CREATED." Well, not a single poster on XDA created touchwiz - they only modify it. Another moderator said "The only thing in Development will be true development. Roms and kernels." Well, tweaking touchwiz isn't really "true" development, is it?
Taking those two posts together, and combining with the current reality (at least in the samsung device forums), it appears that the "development" forum is used for modified stock firmware. However, at what level? I've seen people deodex a touchwiz stock firmware, change the "build.prop" and post it in development. Others take that same deodex'd firmware, modifying a couple of apk's, and post that there. Is this "development?" If so, what about if the person only posted the apk's that they modified without forcing the users to take the entire package? I've seen this frequenty in the development forum, but apparently this is a case where some moderators have different rules than others. From a DEVELOPER point of view, the latter is better as it gives people the chance to have the modifications they want and not the ones they don't want.
You see, the "rules" are vague.
There needs to be a clear and precise set of guidelines on what these subforums are for - and those guidelines posted in the general forum rules where everyone can read them. As well, I think it would help prevent the issue of each moderator having a different interpretation of what post belongs in what forum. Oh, and if someone actually does this, please include a note telling developers where they are allowed to discuss development.
That leads, of course, to the current XDA moderators. Honestly, there are too many and they apparently aren't given clear guidance.
I'm playing around with the AT&T Note2, and I think there are currently 5-7 active moderators each enforcing their own interpretation of the rules in that forum. As a user of the forum, I've learned to expect that each moderator has a different style and different view of the rules, but at least one of those moderators isn't even consistent in his own enforcement. If two threads are nearly identical, and one is closed for "meaningless content", why isn't the other one also closed? The best part was when I sent a PRIVATE message to that moderator pointing this out, the response I got was "Sir, your thoughts should be kept to yourself." As well, this moderator informed me that "the report system on XDA is not for making a statement and or to submit feedback." (Okay... that's a new rule.) I think it's probably significant that this particular moderator seems to have something personal against me. Not sure what or why. Honestly, at this point, I don't even care why.
So, here I am as a developer. I'm on a forum called "xda-developers" (And I've been here for over 6 years.) However, I feel at this point that this "developers" forum is no longer targeting developers. In fact, it appears to be chasing them away. I've had development discussion threads shut down by non-developer moderators. I've had my threads where I share my development work moved around (out of "development".) and been told by that moderator to keep my feedback to myself. (That's from a PRIVATE MESSAGE!!!!)
Why are forums like "rootzwiki" becoming so popular? Perhaps it's due to the lack of developer friendliness here on XDA.
Personally, I REALLY hate to see XDA going this way. I've been here a long time and while I have no hope of seeing it be the way it once was, it can still be a development forum. Why isn't it?
Yes, this message is being written in response to something that happened. However, that was only the "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak. This is something that's been building up for at least a year.
For now, I've pulled my contributions for the AT&T note2 down from XDA. At this point, I'm not even sure which location they should be posted in (and I have moderators telling me different things.) I'd pull down my other stuff from other devices, but most are out of date by now, so there's really no point.
As well, I have a specific moderator in this set of forums who seems to have an issue with me personally. Right now, I need to back away and cool off.
Gary - there IS an XDA general discussion forum that you apparently missed - http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=263
As to the RD tag - if you recall my currently ongoing G+ saga, I did mention that the RD program had some serious issues at the end of 2011. That was why the ERD program was created, and also why the rules for becoming an RD were made stricter/clearer about a month ago. (With the addition of RC/RT tiers, it's easier to "raise the bar" for RD since there are now lower titles available to those who don't quite make the cut.)
I think some aspects of XDA's process might need to be better documented/clearer - for example, I wasn't even aware of the "Moderator Committee" account until today. I knew there WAS a Moderator Committee, but didn't know exactly who was on it, and that there was a "catchall" account for PMing them all simultaneously.
Unfortunately, I think the rules are indeed unclear in terms of, for example, single-APK modifications. In the I9100 forums, these seem to be split 50/50 between "Themes and Apps" and "Development" - The defining line for some of these is so vague that usually, the moderators let it go unless it's obvious. For example, if you just replaced graphics assets in something, it obviously belongs in "Themes and Apps". If you did smali hacks - it's borderline. In my opinion, if you just post a smali-hacked APK, it goes in T&A. If you actually documented the process for performing the modification so others could apply it to different devices/firmware images, then it probably is justified as "Development". Knowing your past work and ethics, I'm assuming your modifications were from the latter category, however I currently can't review them.
Damn, you're right - I did miss that forum. Well, between the PM I sent to "moderator committee" and its somewhat obvious location here, I'm sure it'll get moved soon (and I'm good with that.)
As for RD - I'll save that for another day.
Take care
Gary
I've moved this thread into the General 'General' section. Gary has some good points, I also think it's strange that development, real development, discussions have no real place other than General, where good work can easily get lost - however, if you have an issue with a moderator you need to take that up with the moderator - you can, of course, report your issues to the Moderator Committee as Entropy has mentioned.
reinbeau said:
I've moved this thread into the General 'General' section. Gary has some good points, I also think it's strange that development, real development, discussions have no real place other than General, where good work can easily get lost - however, if you have an issue with a moderator you need to take that up with the moderator - you can, of course, report your issues to the Moderator Committee as Entropy has mentioned.
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Click to collapse
Ann, I TRIED taking it up with that moderator in a private message and was ripped by that person for doing so. I was told to keep my thoughts to myself and that I wasn't supposed to submit feedback.
garyd9 said:
Ann, I TRIED taking it up with that moderator in a private message and was ripped by that person for doing so. I was told to keep my thoughts to myself and that I wasn't supposed to submit feedback.
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Click to collapse
THAT particular issue, in my opinion, was uncalled for. (uncalled for from the Moderator you tried to work things out with, not uncalled for from you.)
Thank you for the second move. I just hope it's read by the proper people.
Take care
Gary
The correct process is to direct this sort of thing to the Moderator Committee. Especially make sure to include the PM from the FSM.
jerdog said:
Especially make sure to include the PM from the FSM.
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Click to collapse
Pardon my ignorance... "FSM"?
Would it be helpful to post the pmid's of the PM's sent back and forth?
(If I post the pmid's in this thread, can a moderator access them but not anyone else? I don't think it'd be appropriate to post the contents of all the PM's in a public location. I've also very carefully avoiding calling out the name of the moderator.)
Also, the issue that that moderator is only a very small part of the overall thing. If there were CLEAR rules to begin with, I think there'd be less of an issue with specific moderators.
Gary, please either forward your concerns about specific moderators to myself or another member of the moderator committee via pm when you have the chance.
Although it sometimes might not seem like it I can assure you that we intend to keep xda as developer orientated as we possibly can, however we cannot do that without feedback from people such as yourself.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Sorry, I see you've already sent a pm to the mod committee account. Disregard my last post. Well, the first part anyway.....
That's what I get for skimming the thread.....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I've sent you a PM, conantroutman. If there's anything else I can do for that particular issue, please let me know.
In my post, I mentioned the inconsistency of the moderating and dealing with the so-called "Development" subforums. I had a post moved out of that subforum and was told (among other things) that "The only thing in Development will be true development. Roms and kernels."
Since that time, a few other threads have been posted in there.
One is nothing more than a deodex of the stock firmware. No "development" in running a deodex script. (I had to deodex the stuff I posted before working on it... no effort there.)
Another is (and this is some high end "development") an empty edify zip file. I'm serious. Someone made a generic .zip file that has nothing in the /system directory, but will copy everything from that (empty) directory to the device system directory.
Finally, there's a thread with modem dumps. Seriously, a "development" subforum thread containing dumps of a "dd" command.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986556
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986645
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986480
If I'm going to be attacked and have my threads moved when they involve actual development effort (even if it's only a single apk), then I don't see how purely stock stuff or empty shells are permitted. At least what I posted changes the behavior of the device when installed.
I'm not even sure who or what to blame for this. Is it that a specific moderator was attacking my post? Was it that each moderator has a different idea of what goes where? Is it that the rules are so vague that it's perfectly reasonable for a moderator to roll dice to decide if a thread should be moved?
This message isn't to attack the posts above. Personally, I think the development subforum is a reasonable place for at least the first two. (The modem dumps should probably be a sticky in the general subforum based on what I've seen in the past.) However, based on the guidelines quoted to me by moderators of XDA, none of this stuff should be in there.
I really hope this gets addressed.
Gary
Some rather interesting points being made here which I think we, XDA, should take on board. We obviously want XDA to be easy to navigate through, plus we also want it to be easy for people to contact us (The MC) amongst others
Personally, I thought it was rather easy and straight forward, but then again I've been here for years, it may not be so easy for others, especially new users
I'm going to create a new thread in the "About XDA" forum asking for users to give feedback or recommendations on site layout, contacts, procedures etc?
I hope you add any thoughts you may have
Rick
Moderator Committee
Here's the kinds of things that this leads to:
I'd like to post a thread trying to document and catalog the CSC variables in a samsung stock firmware, how to change them, and the impacts of changing them. This single set of variables can change nearly any aspect of a phone from what settings are available for the user to what color scheme the stock email app uses.
Which subforum does it get put in? Its certainly targeted for development purposes. Does it get put into "general" (and get lost in the clutter of "Post pictures you take with your phone")? It's certainly not a theme. I have NO IDEA the proper place to put this, and now I wonder if it's easier to just not contribute to XDA than to waste my time trying to navigate the mess.
This one amuses me: There are now SEVERAL threads in that development subforum I had my stuff moved from that are nearly identical to a post I made (and which was moved out of dev.) I mentioned these via PM to one of the moderators who supported moving my stuff before. He responded that he'd look into those new posts last night. Yet, they (and many more) are still there without being moved.
What message should I take from that?
I think you're touching on one of those issues where XDA's growth has caused difficulties to manage things, and an ideal solution has yet to be determined.
For example, on the topics of how certain types of development discussion (like figuring out a register map) might not be considered "development" in the current rules even though they should be - If you don't use the current rules, what DO you use? If you're not careful, you wind up with Development subsections cluttered with threads of "Let's fix X" (even though we have no clue how) - Some users consider that "development" even if they're in WAY above their heads and the thread has zero actual development.
It helps when moderators for a forum are developers themselves. It helps them make those "grey area" calls - as a result the I9100 forums are in pretty good shape because a number of the I9100 moderators were experienced developers, and a few senior moderators/admins owned the I9100 and hence hung out in those forums. (For example: Pulser). But as XDA grows, it's harder to get FSMs that have development experience for all forums, without overloading them and frying their brains.
What's the answer? I don't know - but please keep in mind that unfortunately, for some of these, there is no easy answer.
BTW, there is some planned rework for organization of the "Development" sections that was mentioned in the "Future" part of Jerdog's "XDA: Past, Present, and Future" presentation at BABBQ. Unfortunately, issues with the conference center network prevented the talk from being recorded/streamed as was originally planned. BTW, this is one reason I think you should apply for RD status - some issues like this are things that do get discussed in the RD forums.
As to your example of CSC modification - I think a comprehensive guide for this WOULD be highly useful. The problem is, you know that within days, someone will see that and throw up a "hey everyone, throw this **** in your build.prop and it'll be AWESUM!!1!!!1!1!" thread... A detailed technical analysis of each entry and what it does would be something I'd consider "development" especially if some research needed to be done (including baksmali'ing, etc.) to determine something's true function - but just "OMG THIS WILL MAKE UR PHONE AWESUM!!11!!!!" threads wouldn't be... And that's the problem, how do you let the former reside in Development without the latter creeping in? Decisions like that are going to be difficult for many moderators.
Entropy512 said:
And that's the problem, how do you let the former reside in Development without the latter creeping in? Decisions like that are going to be difficult for many moderators.
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Click to collapse
Perhaps some form of OP moderated post? Any replies are reviewed by the OP before being visible. Sadly, I don't think XDA's forum software supports this type of thing.
As an alternative, a thread locked to all but the OP. The person who started the thread states that comments/additions should be sent via PM and will be added if deemed appropriate. (I read somewhere that RD's can moderate their own threads... if true, that might be the perfect solution.)
There'd still need to be some moderation, as surely as I write this, you'll have certain people starting those types of threads everyplace one doesn't already exist regardless of their own ability to test things, etc. (Just look at how any time a new device section is added even weeks before anyone has the device, there are instantly "post your homescreens", "guide to kernels/roms" and other things the mods only allow one of.)
Oh, and Entropy512... sorry about trying to give you more work in that other thread that Fallen Spartan started.
Entropy512 said:
BTW, this is one reason I think you should apply for RD status - some issues like this are things that do get discussed in the RD forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh - at this point, I doubt that would happen. In the past 2 days, I've managed to get quite a few people on XDA pissed at me. It's not that I've tried to, just that I got to the mental point of speaking "plainly" instead of trying to be politically correct.
As well, and to be completely fair, I haven't been posting most of my code contributions here on XDA lately. Then again, there's no good place to post things like "add support for sms messaging over bluetooth" on XDA. It's not product by itself, but something that needs to be compiled into a larger project - hence there's no home for it here.
(I'm (perhaps incorrectly assuming that the RD program on XDA depends on a certain number of things posted here on XDA.)
Hi Gary,
First of all, I'd just like to say that I've read through your posts in this thread and the "feedback/ recommendations for xda" thread and you've had some great thoughts and ideas which I reckon could definitely improve certain aspects of this site. The main problem just seems to be putting it into action and making sure the ides stays as true as possible to what it's meant to be, rather than filter off into something which will fizzle out and have nothing more mentioned about it.
Now onto the suggestion of OP moderated posts.
While this could be a great idea on other forums, I don't really think it's feasible here on XDA.
If a thread is at the stage where it may be needed for the OP to review what posts are allowed, that is the exact same moment when that idea would simply become unmanageable.
I think this because no matter what the persons "level" on XDA is, there would be too many posts to review to give them time to do anything else. This is especially true for those who are developers, not just RDs.
As a result of it being too much for them to handle, things would revert back to the system currently in place. We've then gained nothing.
The same would also ring true if OPs would need to add posts themselves, out of all the PMs they'd received. Even if the OP of a thread was happy to wade through all the PMs they receive, it's quite easy to accidentally miss some messages.
Even mods have missed a message of mine at times simply because they have loads come through. The OP would surely have even more PMs come through meaning that loads more messages could be skipped by accident.
And yes, RDs can moderate their own threads but only to the extent of closing/reopening it. They can't remove comments like moderators can.
James
''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
Forewarning: This is going to be a rant but please take it lightly. I mean no harm and this isn't in direct relation to any specific entity but as a community together. This isn't going to be a perfect how to and will lack a lot of structure and information. I just really want to get a point across, that's all. Admin's, please don't ban me for this either. If there's something wrong, message me and I'll alter it or remove it. I'm genuinely fed up and as a moderator I'm sure that you'll understand at least a few points in this post.
I've been coming to this website for the last few years on and off, between phones and to check up on reviews and content before I make a purchase. XDA-Developers is a fantastic site, however it has a long way to go as a community. I appreciate the developers and the work that everyone within this community put into enhancing our products. From mods that give us basic features, because let's face it, huge companies aren't that great - to the point of adding features that no one thought was previously possible. We have fantastic developers and community members here everyday putting in their hard work and effort to better us and to improve.
However, I feel like there's something lacking. Lacking by a large amount. I feel like some people are mentally challenged. Half assed and lazy. Rude. Arrogant. Fools. The list goes on for words that are degrading to ones self and to tell you the truth, I'm absolutely sick of it. This is a forum dedicated to information, mods, releases and ideas. Yet we have, almost the entire time, people complaining, winging, throwing racist, sexist and abusive slurs around. Thank God for the moderators! BUT!! It has to stop.
I'm sick of coming to this site, trying to find a new ROM or an awesome mod and having to sift through HUNDREDS of repeated questions, over and over and over. Tens of pages, often hundreds for big general threads. I don't care if you hate people of a different skin colour, or if you think that such and such developer's kids are a bunch of brats. Those types of discussions have NO PLACE for a website like this.
When I go ROM shopping, I'll go to the index thread because I don't frequent this site and sifting through the correct sub-forums and all the useless threads, all the threads that have the same topic as the one before it and so forth, well, it's just a lot easier for me. From that index thread, I'll have a few dozen tabs open. Though I'll immediately close any tabs that DON'T HAVE information about the ROM or Mod. The features it has. Change logs and or screenshots. I'm generally left with anywhere between two to five threads. That's a lot of work being overlooked because YOU as a developer don't incorporate that into your main post or anywhere that's readily available.
Then you'll have hundreds of users asking the same question and before you know it, that six hundred page thread on your ROM could really be one or two pages at most. Please, for the love of God, add information. If you're going to make the effort to developer or alter software, at least give us information about what you have done. Sure it's a lack on my part, but you're not going to go door knocking to sell your vacuum if your vacuum is in a box with a questionmark and all you say is that it's good for people who live at home, are you? What's in the box? What features does it have? How have you altered it? What's the best way to obtain it? Simple things that I see EVERYDAY that people don't seem to give a rats ass about.
There was a developer here recently that created the ONLY ROM that I was happy using on my LG G3. He ended up stopping his work because people would post abuse and not follow some simple rules that he laid out. YOU as a community, drove a fantastic developer away, and you only have YOURSELF to blame. But what can you do about that? CHANGE!!
You make a choice, everyday to do the things you do. Don't ever blame someone else and please be kind to one another. Encourage each other to produce better work! Encourage each other to outperform, to go past your barriers. I'm sick of going to forum sites and reporting people for calling others idiots because they mistakenly overlooked the download section, or their Adblocker stopped the download server page for loading which is something that happens all the time and not a lot of people know that's the cause. We all make mistakes, everyday, I'm sure you ( the ones calling others idiots ) do things just as idiotic but in a different fashion.
So, what are some simple things we can do to enhance the quality of XDA Developers?
1.) If you're a developer -
- Lay out your threads nicely. Formatting is essential. If I wrote this entire thread without paragraphing, I assure you no one would read it.
- Take the opportunity to learn photoshop for nice visuals, or at least take screenshots!! I hate going through a 45 minute install only to find out that it looks terrible.
- INFORMATION!!! CHANGE LOGS!!! LINKS!!!
- Make it clear about what you are doing and what your goals are, what do you hope to achieve?
- Give us a bit of background - it's always a nice added bonus to read. Just a short paragraph. Sometimes it helps, it's like hearing an annoying sound, but once you know what that sound is, it doesn't disturb you.
2.) If you're a user -
- Don't be racist, sexist, abusive.
- Be KIND TO ONE ANOTHER.
- Research!! Take a second to read the first few posts of a thread, not everything is in the first post as some people like to lay things out over two or three with a reserve.
- Don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't be afraid to answer them! For every question you ask, make the effort to answer two others.
- If someone calls you an idiot, report them, don't fuel the fire.
3.) For everyone -
- Don't post something that doesn't; add to the topic, benefit anyone, isn't genuine.
- Be kind.
- Follow the rules.
- Open your eyes.
- INFORMATION!!! This is a site full of it. Acquire its potential.
- Think about what you post.
- Proof read what you've put up!!!!!! I can't comment on how many times I've sat there for half an hour trying to figure out what the developer is trying to say.
With all that said, I hope you all have a fantastic day / night and stay safe, stay hydrated. Sleep well and eat well. Your brain works better if you do, or at least eat a Snickers chocolate bar.
Tldr version, devs post more info/screenshots on your roms, members, respect devs and other forum members.
Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.
RYARNI said:
Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you just proved his point with your comment
Well, unless XDA agrees to put people who don't read into readonly for a week or so, things won't change. Only mass bans and readonlies can make people who don't read and don't listen understand...
@Curleyyy Even though I completely agree with the statements you made and airing off your views is good for sanity, even if you post this epic rant in every thread in the sea of device specific threads on XDA you will never ever change peoples attitudes to forum posting. Frankly you can't call it a true community if everyone has an alias and avatar, we offer information and maybe 90% have a kosher reason or genuine interest with the satisfaction of anonymity, unfortunately with anonymity also comes the troll who comes to spoil the party. This is not Facebook or google+ my friend, it is only an exchange of specific information (with a certain amount of order), an open-source library of sorts, but at least it works and that is a testament to the mods which do a great job filtering out most of the dross!
Thread closed
To answer my question; yes, I do. I always feel lost when I come here, so for this time, I want to try something new.
1) The main issue. I recognized (unlike all other forums on the Internet), it has three, distinct "layers" with a different visual appearance depending how deep you go into levels.
Level 1: https://forum.xda-developers.com/
Take note of the distinct visual appearance.
Level 2: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Remember that one level up (https://forum.xda-developers.com/) you had actual descriptions of what each category is about. At this level the descriptions have disappeared (for some reason), so you always have to go a level up to figure out which category you want to enter.
Level 3: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Now this looks like your regular Internet forum. I wonder why can't Level 1. and 2. look just like Level 3. for an easy overview of navigation.
Am I the only person all these levels are not intuitive for or you as well? What forum engine XDA Forums runs on? I noted that Level 3. is fine, it looks like just any other Internet forum, but I'm puzzled and perplexed as ever about the distinct designs of Levels 1. and 2.
For a comparison of some neat and friendly forum interfaces, I encourage you to check out:
https://forums.anandtech.com/
https://arstechnica.com/civis/
+1: https://forum.f-droid.org/
Nothing special, really: just time tested, old forum interfaces that "just works" as they say. I'm not even saying they are perfect. For example, the AnandTech Forum doesn't have the descriptions the Ars Technica forum has, but due to the self-explanatory nature of the categories, I'm not lost while there. I understand XDA Forums have more complex topics, so descriptions are preferred.
+1: As opposed to the Ars Technica and AnandTech Forums, The F-Droid Forum uses a new school interface called Discourse. I find it effective as it has powerful features. If you ever want to upgrade XDA Forums, you might want to consider going with a next generation forum engine like Discourse.
Example: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/budget-phones-eur-usd100-worth-buying-t3433115
I simply can't believe I'm the single person on this forum interested in this question. (It's timely as ever, by the way.) I just feel other people interested in the same topic somehow never found their way to my question because they also find XDA Forums overall just too complex to get a grasp on everything happening here.
2) Has anyone ever found checking the "Q&A Thread" was useful for their thread, and didn't regret checking that box in the end? Back then when I was without a clue, I checked the box. I learned never to check it again. See my cautionary tale here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/viewing-internal-storage-generic-phone-t3429852
I never got a proper answer there, and totally by accident (by external Google search after gave up I will ever find my answer on XDA Forums), I have found what I was looking for in a 5-year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus thread which turned out to be completely device-independent stuff: https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...nlock-root-t1420351/post69913460#post69913460
Now why would the author of this completely device-independent guide put the guide in the Samsung Galaxy Nexus forum section where it lied for 5 years unnoticed, but being still useful today? Probably he has never figured out where the proper place for device-independent guides on the forum is. (Where is the proper place for device independent guides on the forum really, where contributors and users alike will find it equally easily?)
My related observation to this point is that I noticed many of the juicy activity on this forum in general takes place in [insert this year's hot Android phone] categories. Hot Android phone of the day or year changes at least yearly, most users change their devices at least once in two years, so even though many device-independent advice might have been accumulated in the topics for previous year's hot phones, this knowledge seems to be lost. It's still here on the forum, just no one looks at threads of old phones popular years ago looking for device-independent advice, people can only stumble upon information from this (actually huge) section of the forum by accident.
3) Idea: how about a distinctive indicator for a project is being active, still actively maintained or developed? It can be a green sign for active projects. Projects no longer being maintained and developed on the other hand could be distinctively marked with a red sign.
Example for I mistakenly thought of an active and alive project that it was no longer maintained and developed... or not? But something like this:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71988461&postcount=17847
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72580936&postcount=17958
(Poor developer @M66B, I have no idea what negative experiences he may refer to: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69284003)
Example for me being lost here 1.: This project has been abandoned for sure: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
The thread has been closed for 5 years. I have no idea whatsoever in which section should I ask about a similar project which is alive and well. (And expect for answers, which is equally important! A few paragraphs above you can see examples that even I asked the right question in the right place according to moderator, I never received any answer whatsoever, or any meaningful answer.)
Example for me being lost here 2.: I really want to ask somewhere
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/135711/is-apkmirror-com-safe
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/74618/how-safe-is-it-to-use-aptoide
Example 2, for not finding my way around XDA Forums. I noticed there are many worthy, distinctive projects that seem to be abandoned by their developers: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
It seems to be pretty abandoned; the thread has been closed for 5 years.
Aren't just too many separate categories? I just never was able to figure out the "overview" of XDA Forums the way I had no problem to overview AnandTech Forums and the Ars Technica forums. Even if you say there are exactly as many forum categories as needed, I can accept that. But sure, you could do more to make it visually intuitive - just like most other forums on the Internet are. Thanks!
Update. Another case in point: https://www.xda-developers.com/goog...-with-root-and-android-pay-in-the-xda-forums/
Poor Google engineer @jasondclinton_google has some good, general info on rooting vs. Android Pay (Google Pay?) security but why he had to post it in an obscured thread under xda-developers > Google Nexus 5 > Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting > Android Pay and Custom ROM instead of a forum topic of more general interest is beyond me.
Anyone?
Theres quite a few threads on this subject, perhaps people dont feel the need to contribute to another one?
magicphone said:
To answer my question; yes, I do. I always feel lost when I come here, so for this time, I want to try something new.
1) The main issue. I recognized (unlike all other forums on the Internet), it has three, distinct "layers" with a different visual appearance depending how deep you go into levels.
Level 1: https://forum.xda-developers.com/
Take note of the distinct visual appearance.
Level 2: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Remember that one level up (https://forum.xda-developers.com/) you had actual descriptions of what each category is about. At this level the descriptions have disappeared (for some reason), so you always have to go a level up to figure out which category you want to enter.
Level 3: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Now this looks like your regular Internet forum. I wonder why can't Level 1. and 2. look just like Level 3. for an easy overview of navigation.
Am I the only person all these levels are not intuitive for or you as well? What forum engine XDA Forums runs on? I noted that Level 3. is fine, it looks like just any other Internet forum, but I'm puzzled and perplexed as ever about the distinct designs of Levels 1. and 2.
For a comparison of some neat and friendly forum interfaces, I encourage you to check out:
https://forums.anandtech.com/
https://arstechnica.com/civis/
+1: https://forum.f-droid.org/
Nothing special, really: just time tested, old forum interfaces that "just works" as they say. I'm not even saying they are perfect. For example, the AnandTech Forum doesn't have the descriptions the Ars Technica forum has, but due to the self-explanatory nature of the categories, I'm not lost while there. I understand XDA Forums have more complex topics, so descriptions are preferred.
+1: As opposed to the Ars Technica and AnandTech Forums, The F-Droid Forum uses a new school interface called Discourse. I find it effective as it has powerful features. If you ever want to upgrade XDA Forums, you might want to consider going with a next generation forum engine like Discourse.
Example: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/budget-phones-eur-usd100-worth-buying-t3433115
I simply can't believe I'm the single person on this forum interested in this question. (It's timely as ever, by the way.) I just feel other people interested in the same topic somehow never found their way to my question because they also find XDA Forums overall just too complex to get a grasp on everything happening here.
2) Has anyone ever found checking the "Q&A Thread" was useful for their thread, and didn't regret checking that box in the end? Back then when I was without a clue, I checked the box. I learned never to check it again. See my cautionary tale here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/viewing-internal-storage-generic-phone-t3429852
I never got a proper answer there, and totally by accident (by external Google search after gave up I will ever find my answer on XDA Forums), I have found what I was looking for in a 5-year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus thread which turned out to be completely device-independent stuff: https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...nlock-root-t1420351/post69913460#post69913460
Now why would the author of this completely device-independent guide put the guide in the Samsung Galaxy Nexus forum section where it lied for 5 years unnoticed, but being still useful today? Probably he has never figured out where the proper place for device-independent guides on the forum is. (Where is the proper place for device independent guides on the forum really, where contributors and users alike will find it equally easily?)
My related observation to this point is that I noticed many of the juicy activity on this forum in general takes place in [insert this year's hot Android phone] categories. Hot Android phone of the day or year changes at least yearly, most users change their devices at least once in two years, so even though many device-independent advice might have been accumulated in the topics for previous year's hot phones, this knowledge seems to be lost. It's still here on the forum, just no one looks at threads of old phones popular years ago looking for device-independent advice, people can only stumble upon information from this (actually huge) section of the forum by accident.
3) Idea: how about a distinctive indicator for a project is being active, still actively maintained or developed? It can be a green sign for active projects. Projects no longer being maintained and developed on the other hand could be distinctively marked with a red sign.
Example for I mistakenly thought of an active and alive project that it was no longer maintained and developed... or not? But something like this:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71988461&postcount=17847
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72580936&postcount=17958
(Poor developer @M66B, I have no idea what negative experiences he may refer to: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69284003)
Example for me being lost here 1.: This project has been abandoned for sure: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
The thread has been closed for 5 years. I have no idea whatsoever in which section should I ask about a similar project which is alive and well. (And expect for answers, which is equally important! A few paragraphs above you can see examples that even I asked the right question in the right place according to moderator, I never received any answer whatsoever, or any meaningful answer.)
Example for me being lost here 2.: I really want to ask somewhere
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/135711/is-apkmirror-com-safe
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/74618/how-safe-is-it-to-use-aptoide
Example 2, for not finding my way around XDA Forums. I noticed there are many worthy, distinctive projects that seem to be abandoned by their developers: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
It seems to be pretty abandoned; the thread has been closed for 5 years.
Aren't just too many separate categories? I just never was able to figure out the "overview" of XDA Forums the way I had no problem to overview AnandTech Forums and the Ars Technica forums. Even if you say there are exactly as many forum categories as needed, I can accept that. But sure, you could do more to make it visually intuitive - just like most other forums on the Internet are. Thanks!
Update. Another case in point: https://www.xda-developers.com/goog...-with-root-and-android-pay-in-the-xda-forums/
Poor Google engineer @jasondclinton_google has some good, general info on rooting vs. Android Pay (Google Pay?) security but why he had to post it in an obscured thread under xda-developers > Google Nexus 5 > Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting > Android Pay and Custom ROM instead of a forum topic of more general interest is beyond me.
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To your first point, I actually like the separate layouts for the different layers of the forum. I love modded forums in general, and I enjoy when forums step outside of the basic forumdisplay page.
As for the other points, I agree. I've spent the past few hours searching different forums for a few topics, and a lot of "general" info is split between a myriad of specialized, nested forums. I assume this helps the admins manage topic threads more efficiently. I'm sure it just takes some getting used to. I wouldn't describe it as "complicated" or "non-intuitive," just unique to xda. I run specialized message boards myself, and some forums are born out of general discussions that need to be compartmentalized for better management.
If I understand the whole situation, it goes like this: XDA has been around before Android was a thing, but got a high popularity boost with the introduction of Google's mobile operating system.
The original motto was along the lines of 'by developers, for developers.' But then a lot of new Android people came, not just developers, users as well and XDA couldn't keep up with the surge and you guys still try to find out ever since how to best manage such a huge and diverse community with developers and users alike, how to manage projects, bug reports, while maintaining a community of users, who might as well insightful feature requests for the projects. Does this sound about right?
So. Is the motto of the forum still supposed to be something like 'by developers, for developers,' or perhaps, it has changed?
Old, clip from your YouTube channel: You are a Noob on XDA-Developers. It's your second most watched video on your channel, actually. I just wonder if it's still the dominant attitude of you guys who run this place towards users (some of whom, perhaps want to remain users, just want to get out the most of their phones) and they should piss off and better go elsewhere, or perhaps you have toned down the communication and you are in the process of figuring out how this place could be more fruitful for all?
See more at the Google search: xda site:https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/
I Google searched to find this forum because I am just trying to understand XDA's layout. I'm currently using the app, and I am always so lost here. The only way I find anything at all is through Google searches. Right now I'm trying to understand this place's layout.
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
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See ya.
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See ya.
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
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Click to collapse
K bye!
Ciao!
It's turning into a bye bye thread
I admit my post is not helpful