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Anyone gone swimming or showered with the Moto360 ?
Sorry if the question sounds absurd but would like to hear if anyone has done so or done so regularly and if there are any issues. I practically wear my casio 24x7 ... so just wanted to know.
Thanks.
The moto 360 IS NOT RATED FOR SHOWER OR POOL. If you look up what the ip67 rating really is, the device cannot withstand forceful jets of water or extended submersion. It was designed to withstand dust and short immersion or gentle splashes - NOT hot shower jets or extended submersion in the pool. I have seen a lot of misunderstanding on what exactly the device is rated for and would hate to see people trash their watches assuming its "waterproof" because it is not.
fwayfarer said:
The moto 360 IS NOT RATED FOR SHOWER OR POOL. If you look up what the ip67 rating really is, the device cannot withstand forceful jets of water or extended submersion. It was designed to withstand dust and short immersion or gentle splashes - NOT hot shower jets or extended submersion in the pool. I have seen a lot of misunderstanding on what exactly the device is rated for and would hate to see people trash their watches assuming its "waterproof" because it is not.
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Thanks. I just don't understand if it is really that much harder to make it fully waterproof when so many normal watches are water proof.
I wonder if the limitation is really around the wireless charging as most waterproof watches needs a steel back screwed on or due to the touch screen.
Well there are several spots that water could eventually infiltrate, if hot and or if a jet spray. The button, the back, the USB sticker, etc. Also, with a smart watch it is definitely more difficult to seal as opposed to a full steel case with screwed on back plate as you mentioned. To top it off, if I were Motorola I would stay conservative on what I had the device rated for to try to keep down issues of people seeing "waterproof" and going hog wild at the amusement park or cash wash with high pressure spray hitting the device.
Here's a video try:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khmC5EwdwqQ
And here's what Moto says:
Is my Moto 360 water resistant and water proof?
Moto 360 is water resistance, meaning it can sustain sweat and rain.
Water resistant in up to 1 meter of fresh water for up to 30 minutes. Exposure of leather band to water is not recommended.
Note: Moto 360 is IP67 rated.
That being said, I have not tried it.
I used mine in the shower its was fine however the water makes the screen flip out because it detected the water as the screen being touched which is normal however because the display can be waked by tapping it it was difficult to stop it from doing things while wet. So yes you should be fine in the shower. however if you decide to do anything ridiculous with yours don't come crying to me about water damage. I'm not liable for your actions. but mine was fine.
I drive a motorcycle, have been caught in some heavy rain with the M360, no issues thus far. Everything works fine.
I wouldn't recommend swimming in a pool or taking a shower with it on, there is no point really.
Well I mean I poured a bottle of water over mine to freak out my friends, but that is within the ip67 certification. Shower and pool really aren't.
Showered and washed dishes with it.
Like some people said- the screen flips out if you shower with it, as it senses every little drop of water as if it's been touched.
EDIT- btw, jets of water in the shower?? What kind of awesome jet shower head do you guys have?? Mine just spits water out with a very reasonable amount of pressure.
Btw I read on motos support site that they don't replace devices with water damage so I'd be very careful
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
Safe to wash hands with it, you think?
I work in a restaurant and I'm always washing my hands.
raduque said:
Safe to wash hands with it, you think?
I work in a restaurant and I'm always washing my hands.
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I work in a hospital and have no problems washing my hands... But I do take off the watch to take a shower.
You can't wear it in the shower, because as others have stated the screen goes ape-sh*t...
Same goes with jacuzzi or probably pool...
My Gear 2 had the option of only waking the screen by pushing the button, but 360 doesn't have that option yet
Wore my gear 2 in the shower all the time and they are rated the same. I never had any issues... I got that thing wet all the time never had an issue. Wore it in the river for about 4 hours and was fine as well. That is until I got tackled and it went floating down the river haha
Also know someone who threw their Galaxy S5 in a hot tub for 30 minutes and it was fine!
I shower with mine all the time. I use WearLocker to lock the screen so it doesn't go crazy. No issues so far.
It is high time there was a consumer protection law requiring all manufacturers provide free repair for water damage of water resistant, waterproof or weather-sealed products, regardless of warranty status unless a) the device is clearly labeled with a maximum depth and the manufacturer can prove it was exceeded, or b) the manufacturer can prove the damage happened prior to immersion. As is, it borders on fraud to advertise a product as capable of withstanding one meter immersion for half an hour, and to then say water damage is not covered under warranty in any circumstances.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
fylim said:
Thanks. I just don't understand if it is really that much harder to make it fully waterproof when so many normal watches are water proof.
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Just so you know, there is absolutely no such thing as a "waterproof" watch. There are only varying levels of resistance. Even watches that are rated to a depth of 100m can't have their buttons pushed while under water; they'll leak. Diving watches also have limits. Ever noticed how much larger electronic devices are when they are certified for diving? Do you really want that on your wrist? There's additional concerns with a device like this as well...as in the discharge of heat. You don't want the processor to overheat just because the whole thing has been insulated against water to a ridiculous degree. And it has a capacitive display. Not so great in water. Not really necessary to further waterproof the thing. (A little bit more would be nice...perhaps IP68?).
fwayfarer said:
The moto 360 IS NOT RATED FOR SHOWER OR POOL. If you look up what the ip67 rating really is, the device cannot withstand forceful jets of water or extended submersion. It was designed to withstand dust and short immersion or gentle splashes - NOT hot shower jets or extended submersion in the pool. I have seen a lot of misunderstanding on what exactly the device is rated for and would hate to see people trash their watches assuming its "waterproof" because it is not.
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WTF I already took mine scuba diving 30m and it's fine!
The water just drained right out :laugh:
There's just something about electronics and water that has always frightened me.
knoxploration said:
It is high time there was a consumer protection law requiring all manufacturers provide free repair for water damage of water resistant, waterproof or weather-sealed products, regardless of warranty status unless a) the device is clearly labeled with a maximum depth and the manufacturer can prove it was exceeded, or b) the manufacturer can prove the damage happened prior to immersion. As is, it borders on fraud to advertise a product as capable of withstanding one meter immersion for half an hour, and to then say water damage is not covered under warranty in any circumstances.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
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I strongly disagree. Companies should not have to pay for the lack of common sense on the users' part.
Had a shower with the moto 360 hoping nothing would happen after seeing all these videos. Everything was fine until the next day when I took it off the dock. Water went inside of the screen and it has messed it up. Motorola have stayed that they won't repair water damage so right now I have a ****ed up watch...
I damaged mine over a month ago, wading from across a pool. Watch never went lower than 3" underwater as waded/walked 50' to get to the pool bar LOL. That short 40seconds was enough to let water in and mess it up. Mine constantly thought it was plugged in.
You best bet would be to register your device and see if you can get Moto's extra accidental coverage. This was not available when this happened to mine, so I opted for the $100 at fault replacement program. They sent me a brand new watch and I sent the defective one back.
Motorola's specification on the 360 is "water resistant IP67" if you go look up the specification IP67, it says:
6 = Dust tight , No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight),
7 = Immersion up to 1 m Ingress of water in harmful quantity shall not be possible when the enclosure is immersed in water under defined conditions of pressure and time (up to 1 m of submersion). Test duration: 30 minutes. The lowest point of enclosures with a height less than 850 mm is located 1000 mm below the surface of the water, the highest point of enclosures with a height equal to or greater than 850 mm is located 150 mm below the surface of the water
So, since you did not exceed the specification, I would contact Motorola again and ask for management, state that the watch failed their advertised specification and insist on them replacing/repairing it.
I don't get you guys sometimes. Why even take it in the shower in the first place? Just because something says it is water resistant, don't mean you have to test it out!
Agreed, it was kinda stupid to take it in the shower, but regardless Motorola states it's IP67, so they have to stand by that claim and replace your watch. Don't take no for an answer, they're full of **** if they won't honour their warranty.
brew1brew said:
Motorola's specification on the 360 is "water resistant IP67" if you go look up the specification IP67, it says:
6 = Dust tight, No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight),
7 = Immersion up to 1 mIngress of water in harmful quantity shall not be possible when the enclosure is immersed in water under defined conditions of pressure and time (up to 1 m of submersion).Test duration: 30 minutes. The lowest point of enclosures with a height less than 850 mm is located 1000 mm below the surface of the water, the highest point of enclosures with a height equal to or greater than 850 mm is located 150 mm below the surface of the water
So, since you did not exceed the specification, I would contact Motorola again and ask for management, state that the watch failed their advertised specification and insist on them replacing/repairing it.
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That's not true. A shower, swimming in shallow water, wading in a pool - These all exceed the ip67 spec because of the pressure requirement . These watches can handle being submerged in 1 meter of water. They can handle one meter of water pressure. Showers, wading, swimming all exceed the equivalent of one meter of water pressure EVEN IF they were never actually over a meter underwater.
Reminds me of all the people who put their iphones in the sink thanks to iOS water protection update. Why on earth would you test something like this just for the sake of testing it? Gorilla glass supposedly can withstand being hit with a hammer or axe or nailgun or whatever. Does that mean you are going to bash your phone on purpose just to find out? Really hard to feel sorry for people.......
Same thing happened to me: went to an hotel pool (i.e. a very shallow one), started swimming (I'd say 30 to 40 meters) before I thought about removing the watch.
When I pressed the button, the screen stayed black, so I knew I was in trouble.
To make a long story short: the watch would occasionally accept to start, when plugged to the charger for a while, but wouldn't go past about 15% before starting to discharge again (still on the charger).
I knew I was busted (purchased the Moto 360 while traveling in the US, but back in France there's no Best Buy close at hand to have it replaced, even at a cost), so I decided to play my last card:
Following the instructions from iFixit, I removed the back cover. It sure was a bit tricky, but I was able to do it nonetheless. The sad thing is that the back cover is now cracked, but then the Moto 360 had already proven that it doesn't like water anyway, and I've been using a carbon-like skin on the back right from the start, so I don't think I lost much protection to water. The trick to remove the back is to heat the watch, which I did by wrapping it in a water bag (actually a microwave-heated cherry stone bag).
After removing the cover, I put the Moto 360 in a sealed box with some silica gel, and applied vacuum to the box for good measure (don't know how effective this last part was, though), and let it dry for a couple of days.
When I removed the Moto 360 from the box, and put it on the charger, I was able to get it to charge fully again. So I re-heated the Moto 360 and coverplate, re-sealed it the best I could, and I've been using it happily since.
Note that my first attempt to put the Moto 360 in a box with silica gel without removing the back cover wasn't successful, which means that the watch is sealed just enough to prevent water getting in or out when you leave the watch alone, but obviously when you swim in a pool (or take a shower), you add some pressure that lets water get in.
That was a close call for me, I hope that by sharing my experience I can help people to recover a usable watch, if like me you've got no way to ask for a replacement.
My advice: stay on the safe side, don't push the limit when it comes to the Moto 360 and water!
It's strange to see how commonly people mistakes the term 'water resistant' with 'water proof'...
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To those who have had their watches messed up from getting them wet, were you using the included strap or a different one that was putting pressure on the plastic back plate away from the watch?
yeah, umm... i never even thought about getting my 360 near water ip67 claims or not. smh.....
You guys are weird. If something is advertised as having x or being able to do x, why wouldn't you want to test that out? In normal practices, not extreme. Why wait until that fateful day when it fails to live up to its advertisement when you can find out early on? I used to shower with my casio all the time so it's not like it's not normal to do.
I'd be angry af if my ip67 device couldn't survive a shower when there have been many videos dunking galaxy s5 phones into water. Motorola needs to get their act together.
tedya said:
To those who have had their watches messed up from getting them wet, were you using the included strap or a different one that was putting pressure on the plastic back plate away from the watch?
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As for me, the leather band had been replaced by a silicon one... It certainly could have an influence, indeed.
freeza said:
You guys are weird. If something is advertised as having x or being able to do x, why wouldn't you want to test that out? In normal practices, not extreme. Why wait until that fateful day when it fails to live up to its advertisement when you can find out early on? I used to shower with my casio all the time so it's not like it's not normal to do.
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Well, I partly agree with that. Why would anyone intentionally test the limits of a potentially expensive device, then have to spend some time arguing with the vendor that it doesn't meet the advertised specs? The trick is, IP 67 certification isn't particularly explicit about what you can or can't do with it, so it probably wouldn't hurt to err on the cautious side.
I was used not having to care about water with my Pebble, though (5ATM waterproof), so I lost the reflex to remove my watch before getting near a pool. I'd certainly have thought to remove it if I planned some serious swimming, but then I only intended to get wet to stay cool while enjoying the sun, and I forgot about the watch.
And as far as shower is concerned, I personally try to clean the area between the arm and the band, so I'd never get into the shower with my watch. Especially one that you have to recharge nightly, and which as such doesn't even stay all the time around your wrist. So I guess it all depends what your personnal tastes are...
From my understanding, it's not warrantied against damage in the shower, because imagine how much more pressure those shower jets put out compared to just sitting in a few feet of water
freeza said:
You guys are weird. If something is advertised as having x or being able to do x, why wouldn't you want to test that out? In normal practices, not extreme. Why wait until that fateful day when it fails to live up to its advertisement when you can find out early on? I used to shower with my casio all the time so it's not like it's not normal to do.
I'd be angry af if my ip67 device couldn't survive a shower when there have been many videos dunking galaxy s5 phones into water. Motorola needs to get their act together.
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My car came advertised with airbags. Drove it off the forecourt, got it up to 70mph then slammed it in to a tree.
Chris_c81 said:
My car came advertised with airbags. Drove it off the forecourt, got it up to 70mph then slammed it in to a tree.
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Since I knew someone was going to try and use that, I added the "in normal practices, not extreme" part.
imo, some common sense is necessary. if you look at the watch it has holes in it on the side and the back of the watch. the watch clearly states that it is water resistant. i personally was not interested in testing the validity of those claims based on the fact that is said 'resistant'. if it said waterproof i would understand.
but as some one else stated who takes a shower with a watch on? why?
freeza said:
I'd be angry af if my ip67 device couldn't survive a shower when there have been many videos dunking galaxy s5 phones into water. Motorola needs to get their act together.
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Why would you be angry? IP67 covers being submerged in water. It can handle up to a meter of water pressure. It can't handle the pressure from a shower head or swimming with it on. The average water pressure in a home is 60psi. THAT IS ALMOST 4 TIMES WHAT IP67 IS RATED FOR. Taking a shower with the S5 would be a bad idea as well.
It's like complaining your 360's 300mah battery can't charge up to 900mah. It doesn't make sense.
Metallice said:
Why would you be angry? IP67 covers being submerged in water. It can handle up to a meter of water pressure. It can't handle the pressure from a shower head or swimming with it on. The average water pressure in a home is 60psi. THAT IS ALMOST 4 TIMES WHAT IP67 IS RATED FOR. Taking a shower with the S5 would be a bad idea as well.
It's like complaining your 360's 300mah battery can't charge up to 900mah. It doesn't make sense.
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It's nothing like that. My Moto 360 survived being put under running faucet water to show my friends. It not being able to survive a shower says to me bad unit.
freeza said:
It's nothing like that. My Moto 360 survived being put under running faucet water to show my friends. It not being able to survive a shower says to me bad unit.
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It's exactly like that. Just because your moto 360 once survived 4 times the water pressure it's rated to be able to handle doesn't mean any that fail to do so are defective.
As a person training for a trialthalon,I was debating between this, the Pebble steel and the Garmin Forerunner 920xt. I decided on the Sony, but soon realized none of the community shares the same love for swimming recording like myself. Am I wrong? Also, can I answer and talk to people using my watch? I haven't experienced a speaker on this thing, only a microphone.
I would imagine the GPS would still work in water, so any of the running/sports apps should work for distance. As for a speaker, no, there is no speaker on the watch--being able to use the watch for phone calls is not a Android Wear feature.
gtriamy said:
I would imagine the GPS would still work in water, so any of the running/sports apps should work for distance. As for a speaker, no, there is no speaker on the watch--being able to use the watch for phone calls is not a Android Wear feature.
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On the Play Music app it says "Play on Phone" and "Play on wearable" so idk man, my friend with a galaxy neo can take and do calls on his phone so mang.
TheSkywayBridge said:
As a person training for a trialthalon,I was debating between this, the Pebble steel and the Garmin Forerunner 920xt. I decided on the Sony, but soon realized none of the community shares the same love for swimming recording like myself. Am I wrong? Also, can I answer and talk to people using my watch? I haven't experienced a speaker on this thing, only a microphone.
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The Sony Smartchwatch 3 isn't made for swimming.
It has some IP68 certification that can hold back running water but when it comes to swimming it will break the watch since the water pressure is much higher.
LumPenPacK said:
The Sony Smartchwatch 3 isn't made for swimming.
It has some IP68 certification that can hold back running water but when it comes to swimming it will break the watch since the water pressure is much higher.
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Negative, Sony's warranty allows for chlorine and fresh water galore as long as you do not go scuba diving with it. Ips 68 means water and dust resistant I don't know why people think otherwise.
Also, how the hell do I connect this thing to my computer, it does not recognize through USB, and I have no idea why.
TheSkywayBridge said:
Negative, Sony's warranty allows for chlorine and fresh water galore as long as you do not go scuba diving with it. Ips 68 means water and dust resistant I don't know why people think otherwise.
Also, how the hell do I connect this thing to my computer, it does not recognize through USB, and I have no idea why.
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I suspect the USB Micro port is configured for charging only. Not data.
senectus said:
I suspect the USB Micro port is configured for charging only. Not data.
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Very lame. It has usb 2.0, so I thought I just needed an Xperia's version of iTunes type deal, funny because I updated it via USB so it's clearly a **** tease.
TheSkywayBridge said:
As a person training for a trialthalon,I was debating between this, the Pebble steel and the Garmin Forerunner 920xt. I decided on the Sony, but soon realized none of the community shares the same love for swimming recording like myself. Am I wrong? Also, can I answer and talk to people using my watch? I haven't experienced a speaker on this thing, only a microphone.
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Have you tried endomondo? I haven't had time to try this either, but endomondo recently added support for watch only. I know that if you use endomondo on a treadmill, you have to go online and manually add the distance run, so if you know how many yards you swam in your workout, you might be able to do the same?
I don't think you can answer and talk at the same time. Well you might be able to talk, but you wouldn't be able to hear anything. The watch is ultimately just an extension of your phone's screen.
LumPenPacK said:
The Sony Smartchwatch 3 isn't made for swimming.
It has some IP68 certification that can hold back running water but when it comes to swimming it will break the watch since the water pressure is much higher.
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I call BS, I take my Sony Smartwatch 3 into the pool for a swim, the jacuzzi and steam room every other day and it is fine.
Joachim Winter said:
I call BS, I take my Sony Smartwatch 3 into the pool for a swim, the jacuzzi and steam room every other day and it is fine.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
IP = Ingress Protection Marking
6 = Dust tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight)
8= mmersion beyond 1 m The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects. Test duration: continuous immersion in water
Depth specified by manufacturer, generally up to 3 m
*Note, I *think* each increasing higher number includes the protection of the previous number... so IP68 should include:
6 Powerful water jets Water projected in powerful jets (12.5 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects. Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 100 litres per minute
Pressure: 100 kPa at distance of 3 m
6K Powerful water jets with increased pressure Water projected in powerful jets (6.3 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction, under elevated pressure, shall have no harmful effects. Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 75 litres per minute
Pressure: 1000 kPa at distance of 3 m
senectus said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
IP = Ingress Protection Marking
6 = Dust tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight)
8= mmersion beyond 1 m The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects. Test duration: continuous immersion in water
Depth specified by manufacturer, generally up to 3 m
*Note, I *think* each increasing higher number includes the protection of the previous number... so IP68 should include:
6 Powerful water jets Water projected in powerful jets (12.5 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects. Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 100 litres per minute
Pressure: 100 kPa at distance of 3 m
6K Powerful water jets with increased pressure Water projected in powerful jets (6.3 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction, under elevated pressure, shall have no harmful effects. Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 75 litres per minute
Pressure: 1000 kPa at distance of 3 m
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I was under the impression IPS 68 means a level 6/6 for dust prevention and 8/9 for water prevention, 9 being basically a submarine. Water pressure works exponentially, the watch/smartphones Sony make can resist water up to 1.5 for 30 minutes. Doing the calculations, it seems to be about 17 pounds per square inch is what it can withstand for 30 minutes, though they usually say that as a safety zone. So since water pressure effect is exponential, then swimming laps at the pool is completely harmless as max depth is at the least 1 meter on a flip turn. Just don't go pressure washing the damn thing and let's get a swimming app for this thing.
Remember though.... the depth rating technically relates to max sustained pressure, be it static OR dynamic. Yes, a surface swimmer is not going deeper than 1 meter, but he is moving his arms (and sometimes at a pretty good clip), and that impact with the water is felt as pressure; depending on how hard you swim, it is not at all impossible that the force of the water impact wouldn't be higher than the static pressure felt at 1.5M. Just something to consider...
I would love an app which can detect my movements and determine the swim type, number of movements, distance, etc. (distance can be determined only during indoor workout as it will be based on turn around, for outdoor workout, the GPS can be used). I recorded movements with my Xperia last year by putting my phone in the swimming cap . Head movements was clearly visible and it was quite easy to determine visually swim type change, turn around, etc. (It's probably harder to determine the number of movements by checking head movements instead of arms or hands movements).
Unfortunately, my technical skills are not good enough to develop this kind of app (both Android development but also "graph analysis") but I'm 100% sure it's feasible.
This kind of app would make our SW3 a perfect watch for triathlon. :fingers-crossed:
Bluetooth headphones that would work?
Sorry new here. Didnt know if i should start a new thread. I too would be interested in a swimming app. Has anyone found any Bluetooth headphones that actually work with this watch?
I'm using Motorola S10HD on a daily basis and it works well with the watch, my phones and laptops.
Sorry I meant waterproof Bluetooth headphones that you can swim and listen to music from your watch at the same time
Divine_Madcat said:
Remember though.... the depth rating technically relates to max sustained pressure, be it static OR dynamic. Yes, a surface swimmer is not going deeper than 1 meter, but he is moving his arms (and sometimes at a pretty good clip), and that impact with the water is felt as pressure; depending on how hard you swim, it is not at all impossible that the force of the water impact wouldn't be higher than the static pressure felt at 1.5M. Just something to consider...
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I got brave one day and decided to wear the watch while surfing. (I know not supposed to take in salt water) But anyways, the watch worked just fine - it even gave me some decent step counts . I washed the watch in fresh water afterward and so far so good.
TheSkywayBridge said:
Negative, Sony's warranty allows for chlorine and fresh water galore as long as you do not go scuba diving with it. Ips 68 means water and dust resistant I don't know why people think otherwise.
Also, how the hell do I connect this thing to my computer, it does not recognize through USB, and I have no idea why.
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really? I don't need an extra housing to go swimming/showering with it on my wrist?
reijin said:
really? I don't need an extra housing to go swimming/showering with it on my wrist?
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Reread the thing you replied to and take a guess
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
reijin said:
really? I don't need an extra housing to go swimming/showering with it on my wrist?
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FWIW here is the text from Sony's own site explaining its IP68 rating:
The SmartWatch 3 is water and dust protected as long as you follow a few simple instructions: all ports and attached covers are firmly closed; you can’t take the smartwatch deeper than 1.5m of water and for longer than 30 minutes; and the water should be fresh water. Casual use in chlorinated pools is permitted provided it’s rinsed in fresh water afterwards. No seawater and no salt water pools. Abuse and improper use of device will invalidate warranty. The smartwatch has an Ingress Protection rating of IP68.
I recall reading on forums that someone did a LG G4 Thermal Compound mod, did it help with the temperatures? Does anyone have a link to the youtube video for it? This is the only thing I can find when searching:
http://imgur.com/a/P5BtT
Interesting. Looks pretty straight forward, though I wonder about the difference in thickness between thermal tape and grease, I think it would be pretty easy to do. Although, you'd have to replace the thermal pad if the grease wasn't as effective
The Snapdragon CPU is underneath the tape they put on. It doesn't conduct heat very well.
I bought some Alphacool Eisschicht 0.5mm 14W/mK thermal pads, and cut out a square for the CPU. It seems to have significantly reduced the amount of heat I can feel when doing demanding things.
I think it's also responsible for an increased score in Antutu, due to less throttling (I just got a score of 50834, up from around 46-47k)
Is this a joke? How is putting thermal paste onto EM-Shielding going to help dissipate heat?! If anything, it'll isolate and therefore the phone won't "feel" that warm anymore but may infact operate warmer than ususal due to it. Thermal compounds are meant to be used to "conduct" heat to a heatsink by, and this is important, filling out irregularities on the heat source's and heatsink's surface. Without it, the irregularities are filled with air and we all know air is not goog at conducting kinetic energy. Thermal compound has no cooling properties!
Knowbody42 said:
(...) I think it's also responsible for an increased score in Antutu, due to less throttling (I just got a score of 50834, up from around 46-47k)
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That's what I usually get. A difference of a couple thousand points has little to no significance.
nitrous² said:
Is this a joke? How is putting thermal paste onto EM-Shielding going to help dissipate heat?! If anything, it'll isolate and therefore the phone won't "feel" that warm anymore but may infact operate warmer than ususal due to it. Thermal compounds are meant to be used to "conduct" heat to a heatsink by, and this is important, filling out irregularities on the heat source's and heatsink's surface. Without it, the irregularities are filled with air and we all know air is not goog at conducting kinetic energy. Thermal compound has no cooling properties!
That's what I usually get. A difference of a couple thousand points has little to no significance.
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a heatsink is a piece of heat conductive element that has a bigger surface compared to the object it want to dissipate heat from. the EM shield has that bigger surface compared to the processor so it's a candidate for heatsink. the thermal compound is used to transfer the heat from the processor to the heatsink. in the theory the mod is solid.
Almighty1 said:
I recall reading on forums that someone did a LG G4 Thermal Compound mod, did it help with the temperatures? Does anyone have a link to the youtube video for it? This is the only thing I can find when searching:
http://imgur.com/a/P5BtT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here's the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijWruGXqX8
darioampuy said:
a heatsink is a piece of heat conductive element that has a bigger surface compared to the object it want to dissipate heat from. the EM shield has that bigger surface compared to the processor so it's a candidate for heatsink. the thermal compound is used to transfer the heat from the processor to the heatsink. in the theory the mod is solid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, not denying that. Apart from what a heatsink is, you have to know how a heatsink works.
Let's just forget for a second that EM-Shields are not meant to be used as heatsinks. How is putting thermal paste ontop of the EM-Shielding logical in any way? Heat from the IC's on the logic board will dissipate heat to the EM-Shielding. It's going to help a little with cooling, but not significantly. What you do now is, you isolate the EM-Shielding with Thermal compound causing heat to build up even more underneath it. Since you isolated so good, you won't feel the phone heating up so much in your hand. Have you ever built a pc? I do that for a living. It's like putting thermal compound ontop of your heatsink instead of in between CPU and Heatsink. Please look at this majestic MS Paint graphic I just made. I hope it helps to understand how thermal compound works, and is meant to be used. I may not be a professional and I'm asking to be corrected! Seriously. But I'm also positive that OP's method is not how you work with thermal compound.
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nitrous² said:
Of course, not denying that. Apart from what a heatsink is, you have to know how a heatsink works.
Let's just forget for a second that EM-Shields are not meant to be used as heatsinks. How is putting thermal paste ontop of the EM-Shielding logical in any way? Heat from the IC's on the logic board will dissipate heat to the EM-Shielding. It's going to help a little with cooling, but not significantly. What you do now is, you isolate the EM-Shielding with Thermal compound causing heat to build up even more underneath it. Since you isolated so good, you won't feel the phone heating up so much in your hand. Have you ever built a pc? I do that for a living. It's like putting thermal compound ontop of your heatsink instead of in between CPU and Heatsink. Please look at this majestic MS Paint graphic I just made. I hope it helps to understand how thermal compound works, and is meant to be used. I may not be a professional and I'm asking to be corrected! Seriously. But I'm also positive that OP's method is not how you work with thermal compound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KUDOS for the awersome paint skills
i think lg already applied thermal compound between the processor and the em-shield (because it's logic that they transfer the heat to the em-shield instead of pocketing it inside it) so the aditional thermal compound outside the em-shield is to help transfer it to a even larger surface
What is the even larger surface outside the shield?
If the surface beyond the shield is the frame of the phone, then your frame should feel *warmer*, not cooler, if the heat is being transferred away from the chips.
If your phone feels cooler, then that would mean the heat is remaining within the phone, which would be bad for throttling and overall performance.
The heat doesn't just disappear, it has to go somewhere.
KingFatty said:
What is the even larger surface outside the shield?
If the surface beyond the shield is the frame of the phone, then your frame should feel *warmer*, not cooler, if the heat is being transferred away from the chips.
If your phone feels cooler, then that would mean the heat is remaining within the phone, which would be bad for throttling and overall performance.
The heat doesn't just disappear, it has to go somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! Listen to this guy OP! You can't just break Thermodynamics...
darioampuy said:
KUDOS for the awersome paint skills
i think lg already applied thermal compound between the processor and the em-shield (because it's logic that they transfer the heat to the em-shield instead of pocketing it inside it) so the aditional thermal compound outside the em-shield is to help transfer it to a even larger surface
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has some kind of sticker which goes over the CPU (there's a square cutout in the EM shield where the CPU is), which I guess is supposed to transfer heat, but it doesn't do a particularly good job of it.
KingFatty said:
What is the even larger surface outside the shield?
If the surface beyond the shield is the frame of the phone, then your frame should feel *warmer*, not cooler, if the heat is being transferred away from the chips.
If your phone feels cooler, then that would mean the heat is remaining within the phone, which would be bad for throttling and overall performance.
The heat doesn't just disappear, it has to go somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't dissapear, it dissipates/radiates.
That's what a heatsink does; it provides a larger surface area to increase the amount of dissipation/radiation that happens, rather than remaining where it is and accumulating.
If the heat stays where it is, it'll feel warmer within a smaller, localised area. Specifically, at the top back of the phone, where the CPU is - you'll get a larger amount of heat radiated per cm² (hence it will feel hotter), but a smaller amount of heat radiated in total due to the smaller amount of area the heat can be radiated from..
nitrous² said:
That's what I usually get. A difference of a couple thousand points has little to no significance.
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Click to collapse
If you're saying that it doesn't prove it made a difference in cooling, I did run the benchmark multiple times, before and after.
Based on reviewing the pictures and video, it looks like this mod will improve the heat transfer from the chips to the frame, allowing the chips to run cooler.
The images appear to miss out on putting thermal compound right over where (I think) the main CPU is. At least, if you watch the video, the guy in the video says something in a language I can't understand, and rubs his finger right around the central part and says "blah blah blah CPU" while rubbing that area (at timestamp 4:31) which makes me think that's where the CPU is located. No idea why the person adding the compound fails to put the compound right there, in the 5th spot?
You can see here, the thermal compound goes at least in the four general areas shown, interfacing between the frame and the shields. But notice the image does not put thermal paste in the fifth central location (unlike the video):
So the extra fifth area, that looks like dark tape in the image here, doesn't get any compound, unlike the video:
But compare that to the technique in the video, showing all 5 areas getting compound (this link positions the video to the 5:34 mark where you can really see all 5 spots you put the compound):
Edit: hmm not sure this website understands links with the timestamp within the url, if you use the Youtube insertion button. Here it is using the generic URL insertion:
https://youtu.be/QijWruGXqX8?t=290
See how the very first spot he puts the thermal compound is exactly where it's missing from in the Imgur album.
In the video, I think he is putting the compound on top of the tape, without removing the tape? Is that thermal tape? This might actually work better if so, because if there is tape, and you pull it off to substitute with thermal compound alone, then you won't get enough compression to make a good thermal contact. Ideally you could shim it with a copper shim and put thermal compound, but the tape+compound may be the next best thing (better than compound alone).
---------- Post added at 05:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------
Knowbody42 said:
It doesn't dissapear, it dissipates/radiates.
That's what a heatsink does; it provides a larger surface area to increase the amount of dissipation/radiation that happens, rather than remaining where it is and accumulating.
If the heat stays where it is, it'll feel warmer within a smaller, localised area. Specifically, at the top back of the phone, where the CPU is - you'll get a larger amount of heat radiated per cm² (hence it will feel hotter), but a smaller amount of heat radiated in total due to the smaller amount of area the heat can be radiated from..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your scenario, what is acting as the heatsink that provides larger surface area?
In my scenario, the frame is the heatsink. Currently, there are inefficiencies preventing heat from transferring into the frame/heatsink. That prevents the frame/heatsink from receiving as much heat as it could under better conditions, so the frame remains cooler. By adding thermal compound, you allow better heat transfer from the chips to the frame, so the frame gets warmer. I guess because the frame is at the inner portion of the phone, away from the front or back, it would be harder to feel the heat from the frame. Because the chips run cooler, you won't feel that localized heat at the CPU as much, and the heat would be spread out throughout the inside of the phone, along a taller area. But then again, it could be moot and the phone may feel just as hot, if the chips remain at max temp due to throttling, just that the phone could perform better with the thermal compound because you could push the chips harder before it throttles.
KingFatty said:
In your scenario, what is acting as the heatsink that provides larger surface area?
In my scenario, the frame is the heatsink. Currently, there are inefficiencies preventing heat from transferring into the frame/heatsink. That prevents the frame/heatsink from receiving as much heat as it could under better conditions, so the frame remains cooler. By adding thermal compound, you allow better heat transfer from the chips to the frame, so the frame gets warmer. I guess because the frame is at the inner portion of the phone, away from the front or back, it would be harder to feel the heat from the frame. Because the chips run cooler, you won't feel that localized heat at the CPU as much, and the heat would be spread out throughout the inside of the phone, along a taller area. But then again, it could be moot and the phone may feel just as hot, if the chips remain at max temp due to throttling, just that the phone could perform better with the thermal compound because you could push the chips harder before it throttles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's using the metal frame.
I took all the the tape off, then used this in place of them:
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/32433
Unlike thermal paste, thermal pads will make up the thickness needed. That's what they're designed for.
Take the tape off, check cpu temp.
Put thermal paste on, check CPU temp.
Is there a difference?
Thanks for the youtube link to the video as I tried using LG G4 Thermal Mod and the only thing I found was for the G3. The video is in the Chinese Cantonese language. What he was saying is the CPU area needs a little dot only where the black tape is but the other areas, he doesn't really know what it's for but it wouldn't hurt to put some there. He mentions that there is a known Taiwanese video with someone using a shim instead which is better than his method. My question is if he only puts a dot in one area, wouldn't that mean that the other area where the tape is would not all make contact with the CPU. Besides, is that even the CPU because according to this in step 7, the CPU is actually below the memory:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/LG+G4+Teardown/42705
The only thing with taking off the tape is it will oid the memory while if you applied the paste with the tape still there, you can basically reverse it should you need warranty on the device.
This has been done on so many devices, the first I can recall being the Nexus 4 around release time, and always turned out to be placebo at best. Unless you can provide solid evidence, with before and after data, I'm calling BS. My reasoning, among other things, goes like this:
While designing the hardware architecture of a Smartphone, a big team of hardware engineers gather and create a project. These guys have studied and worked their whole life with this. If they think there was no need for thermal compound, then I'd rather not use it.
Just look at this guy. You think you know more than him? :laugh: :laugh: ....
EDIT: I just realized, my post sounds kinda *****y and offensive. That's NOT my intention! I mean it.
nitrous² said:
This has been done on so many devices, the first I can recall being the Nexus 4 around release time, and always turned out to be placebo at best. Unless you can provide solid evidence, with before and after data, I'm calling BS. My reasoning, among other things, goes like this:
While designing the hardware architecture of a Smartphone, a big team of hardware engineers gather and create a project. These guys have studied and worked their whole life with this. If they think there was no need for thermal compound, then I'd rather not use it.
Just look at this guy. You think you know more than him? :laugh: :laugh: ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know manufacturers often leave things out to save on cost, right?
Like using cheap Chinese capacitors instead of more expensive, high quality ones that are less likely to die.
The manufacturer decides it's not worth paying more for the more optimal solution, because they figure the number of devices that die won't be that much more than the extra units sold if they have a cheaper product than their competitors.
I think that's the reason they didn't use good thermal paste or thermal pads here. Because it would cost more to add them, and is unlikely to get them any more sales. It's not about who knows more.
Hey guys, I'm the YouTube video owner and is considering if there is necessity to add English CC subtitles for more people to understand what I did and why.
Firstly, the language I spoke in the video is Cantonese(Hong Kong).
- What I did is just a trial version of thermal mod, there is better version from a Taiwanese, he could even take off the metal shield which I apply the compound on it
- There were testings for applying thermal compound on desktop PC, one spot could perform better than a thin layer because a compressed spot gives thinnest layer. A full coverage of thin layer is already too thick for thermal conduction(the thinner the better). This theory might not apply on G4 since we're not putting a heatsink on the CPU and don't have that much of force acting on it. Therefore I was just trying and might have further test on it
- Thermal pad could be added on the opposite side of the motherboard to transfer heat to the phone frame more quickly. I'll have further test on it once I can get some thermal pads
- The phone body temperature get hotter in my test with respect to the feeling of my hands, the CPU had less throttle down and the phone got less lag when playing games with slimport cable connected
(My personal opinion) The manufacturers might consider
When the phone don't have the problem of overheat(99% of the user won't face lagging due to overheat and throttle down except the one who use slimport to record gaming videos like me)
- Better thermal conduction = warmer phone body = customer think the phone is hot and bad(not optimized)
- Less material = lower cost = lower price = more competitive
There should be some wording mistakes since English isn't my native tongue
LKNim said:
Hey guys, I'm the YouTube video owner and is considering if there is necessity to add English CC subtitles for more people to understand what I did and why.
Firstly, the language I spoke in the video is Cantonese(Hong Kong).
- What I did is just a trial version of thermal mod, there is better version from a Taiwanese, he could even take off the metal shield which I apply the compound on it
- There were testings for applying thermal compound on desktop PC, one spot could perform better than a thin layer because a compressed spot gives thinnest layer. A full coverage of thin layer is already too thick for thermal conduction(the thinner the better). This theory might not apply on G4 since we're not putting a heatsink on the CPU and don't have that much of force acting on it. Therefore I was just trying and might have further test on it
- Thermal pad could be added on the opposite side of the motherboard to transfer heat to the phone frame more quickly. I'll have further test on it once I can get some thermal pads
- The phone body temperature get hotter in my test with respect to the feeling of my hands, the CPU had less throttle down and the phone got less lag when playing games with slimport cable connected
(My personal opinion) The manufacturers might consider
When the phone don't have the problem of overheat(99% of the user won't face lagging due to overheat and throttle down except the one who use slimport to record gaming videos like me)
- Better thermal conduction = warmer phone body = customer think the phone is hot and bad(not optimized)
- Less material = lower cost = lower price = more competitive
There should be some wording mistakes since English isn't my native tongue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better thermal conduction to a wider surface means lower average temperature on that surface. the phone feels warmer because the heat doesn't propagate from the source (the processor) to a heatsink. with the thermal mod the wide area of the frame can take more of that heat before getting warm, and since those processors generate little heat the frame doesn't get warmer. in other phones you feel the heat irradiated from the processor directly, and because their frames are made from plastic so they can't be used as a headsink
darioampuy said:
better thermal conduction to a wider surface means lower average temperature on that surface. the phone feels warmer because the heat doesn't propagate from the source (the processor) to a heatsink. with the thermal mod the wide area of the frame can take more of that heat before getting warm, and since those processors generate little heat the frame doesn't get warmer. in other phones you feel the heat irradiated from the processor directly, and because their frames are made from plastic so they can't be used as a headsink
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think what I said wasn't detail enough.
Where I felt hotter is the specific area of the touch screen where the cpu located, it's actually VERY HOT(I've also flashed the CTT mod v4 to keep the cpu less throttling)
Lower average temperature only apply to constant power source
In the situation of my phone, it's average temperature before it was throttling is lower. However, the cpu will hence get more time on higher clock to consume more power and produce more heat. As a result the average power is higher. Then the average temperature depends on the speed of heat dissipation which is bad on glass and plastic.
Below I'm going to describe how the heat energy are transferred, from hotter component -> colder component
Leather cover <- interior frame <- (thermal pad not yet added) <- motherboard <<- cpu ->> metal frame -> em shield -> thermal compound -> black plastic tape -> interior frame -> outer frame/touch screen
Every components listed above are counted as the heatpipe and heatsink of the cpu, heat won't be disappeared and must be transferred through them and dissipated to the air from leather cover/plastic frame/touch screen
What my thermal mod did is to speed up the heat transfer from em shield to the plastic tape, a lower temperature em shield can absorb more heat from metal frame and hence the cpu, then the cpu get cooler
I got lots of experience of desktop computer thermal solution and realize the basic theories could apply on mobile phones too. Correct me if any of the statement was wrong
Hi, i have read on the manuel of my samsung watch active 2 .. that i can damage my watch if i expose it to pool's water .. how it can be possible if they have made this product for a natation
Hi, yesterday I have been using it in a pool, although I have not swum, I had it submerged for a long time and nothing bad has happened to it. I used the tool to expel the water and it worked perfectly.
Regards.
Wich tool?
wakasensei said:
Wich tool?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its a setting that plays a sound to push water out from the small speaker hole on the side. check in drop down settings or just regular system settings.
wakasensei said:
Hi, i have read on the manuel of my samsung watch active 2 .. that i can damage my watch if i expose it to pool's water .. how it can be possible if they have made this product for a natation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are chemicals in a swimming pool that can damage (perish over time) the water RESISTANT membranes. It is unwise to swim with ANY watch that is not a specified divers watch. Research the watch industry code on water resistance and you may be horrified at what you uncover........see chart below.
Watch water resistance
Watches are often classified by watch manufacturers by their degree of water resistance which, due to the absence of official classification standards, roughly translates to the following (1 metre ≈ 3.29 feet).
Water resistance rating Suitability Remarks
Water Resistant 3 atm or 30 m Suitable for everyday use. Splash/rain resistant. Not suitable for showering, bathing, swimming, snorkeling, water related work and fishing. Not suitable for diving.
Water Resistant 5 atm or 50 m Suitable for swimming, white water rafting, non-snorkeling water related work, and fishing. Not suitable for diving.
Water Resistant 10 atm or 100 m Suitable for recreational surfing, swimming, snorkeling, sailing and water sports. Not suitable for diving.
Water Resistant 20 atm or 200 m Suitable for professional marine activity, serious surface water sports and skin diving. Suitable for skin diving.
Diver's 100 m Minimum ISO standard (ISO 6425) for scuba diving at depths not suitable for saturation diving.
Diver's 100 m and 150 m watches are generally old(er) watches.
Diver's 200 m or 300 m Suitable for scuba diving at depths not suitable for saturation diving. Typical ratings for contemporary diver's watches.
Diver's 300+ m for mixed-gas diving Suitable for saturation diving (helium enriched environment). Watches designed for mixed-gas diving will have the DIVER’S WATCH xxx M FOR MIXED-GAS DIVING additional marking to point this out.
Please understand the 'problem' regarding water is not just the depth its the force we can place on a watch. Consider this, if we gently lower a watch with water resistance into a shallow pool all may be well? Now if we start to swim even at surface level we expose same watch to 'force' that is the problem. I am an avid watch collector also techno junkie and NEVER take any watch into a bathroom or expose it to liquid.
NOTHING is water proof, some things are water resistant. Said resistance is a very difficult subject to asses due to pressure from depth also force even at surface level. I advise to act with caution.