Develop Bugs

Windows Phone Market Share

Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php

We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.

^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.

Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/

slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.

Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.

If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.

Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted

There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.

The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...

ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).

N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
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Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...

Now nokia is pulling out some big guns.

Enlisting top game developers like EA and Hasbro to make some Nokia exclusive games. Games like tiger woods PGA tour 11, madden 11, NBA Jam, Dead Space, The Game of Life, and plenty more. I knew Nokia wasn't going to blow us away with specs, it's all about quality and marketing with Nokia, one of the oldest and hands down the greatest cellphone OEM. I can't wait to play NFS: Shift.

Series 40 Nokia devices.
Would be beyond retarded for those developers to release apps and games exclusively for one WP7 device.

vetvito said:
Series 40 Nokia devices.
Would be beyond retarded for those developers to release apps and games exclusively for one WP7 device.
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not only series 40, they're releasing some wp7 games as well that will initially be only for nokia's wp7 devices and are expected to broaden after the exclusive effect wears off. It's not the 40 free games that they promise for series 40 but it's something. Also, there are two Nokia devices. I have a two 800s headed here now and will get a 710 when it comes stateside.

Its 40 free games for the S40 and 20 Nokia exclusive games for WP7.

Zee, how about your rich ass send me a device! Show me some love bro.

Should make things interesting...

Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
I gotta be honest, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, if it is indeed true.
I work with marketing, please don't give me a line about how this is supposedly genius.
This is like bizarro world or something.

sure haven't said:
Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
I gotta be honest, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, if it is indeed true.
I work with marketing, please don't give me a line about how this is supposedly genius.
This is like bizarro world or something.
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Struggling platform - true.
Subpar 2nd gen devices - so they won't be able to run on the Nokia 1.4GHz phones?
Won't hit North America - so the world = North America?
If you work with marketing then you would understand that you satisfy your base and then expand. People game in the UK and Asia. Nokia is biggest in the UK and Asia. This is a principle of business.
I know, a better idea would be to do nothing at all. How is it Nokia's fault that they decided to commission game companies to do something with their phone that would bring some attention to it? This is exactly what SE tried to do with their Play phone. Gaming on phones is where things are at and the companies know this, hence the focus on it with the iPhone during the last conference.
It is like some people made up their minds to dislike any move some companies make. No, Nokia don't pay companies money to bring popular games exclusively to your phone. No, gaming companies don't take Nokia's money.
Right.

No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?

can't wait to see how well dead space run on WP7/ adreno 205 GPU...
Can't wait to see how long the developers going to support their games on WP7...
Have been stop buying games for months since the developers of harvester(games that microsoft claimed the one of the best graphic) zombie attacks 2 and de blob stop updating their games...
cool stuffs.

vetvito said:
No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?
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Think about it Vet. Did these companies launch these titles on a mobile platform prior to Nokia approaching them? No, op it is actually even smarter for the developers.
I want you to take your year old game: Vetvito 2011. Never mind Vetvito 2012 is about to launch, I will pay you to build the old one for my platform. When all is said and done I would have paid you to develop a framework to run one of your popular reoccuring gaming titles on a mobile platform.
Smile all the way to the bank.
Everyone is a winner.

sure haven't said:
Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
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I didn't realize Early 2012 was a year away

This is an absolutely genius move. Do you not remember the call for ilomilo when it was an ATT exclusive. I literally had dozens of people approaching me asking me if I could get that game on their device as I'm more or less a local cellphone guru. People want what they can't have, let us Nokia WP7 users show it off first, show what WP7 can actually do, create some interest in not only the platform, but also the OEM. Then after the exclusivity factor wears off release them to all WP7 users, rinse, and repeat. Nokia is WP7's salvation and while it will take some time to hit America (three months I believe) it is hitting the Asian and European market right away and with a name like Nokia there you will sell. Many people there live and die by Nokia.

nicksti said:
Think about it Vet. Did these companies launch these titles on a mobile platform prior to Nokia approaching them? No, op it is actually even smarter for the developers.
I want you to take your year old game: Vetvito 2011. Never mind Vetvito 2012 is about to launch, I will pay you to build the old one for my platform. When all is said and done I would have paid you to develop a framework to run one of your popular reoccuring gaming titles on a mobile platform.
Smile all the way to the bank.
Everyone is a winner.
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Click to collapse
I don't think these are old games. Its FIFA 2012 for example. I can't read what the year on the Madden one is.
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------
z33dev33l said:
This is an absolutely genius move. Do you not remember the call for ilomilo when it was an ATT exclusive. I literally had dozens of people approaching me asking me if I could get that game on their device as I'm more or less a local cellphone guru. People want what they can't have, let us Nokia WP7 users show it off first, show what WP7 can actually do, create some interest in not only the platform, but also the OEM. Then after the exclusivity factor wears off release them to all WP7 users, rinse, and repeat. Nokia is WP7's salvation and while it will take some time to hit America (three months I believe) it is hitting the Asian and European market right away and with a name like Nokia there you will sell. Many people there live and die by Nokia.
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Doesn't really make any sense. It'd make sense if it was a Nokia exclusive and not available on iOS and Android. This is just screwing over people that are already on the WP7 platform and who chose not to buy a Nokia device.
This is good for Nokia, it is not good for the platform and its not good for the consumer.

vetvito said:
No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?
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Because Nokia probably pays them?

where the gold at?
Gold = iPhone user base for exclusive
Why, oh why take 1/5 of a check from Nokia, if it's even that much?

Here in the UK they have sponsored a whole TV Channel.

This is an idiotic move. The last thing you want for the platform as a whole is bad publicity which you will definitely get because you're punishing people who made a choice of OEM that suited them better.
If you want SAMOLED+/4"+ screen/FF Camera/32GB+ Storage you will definitely not buy a Nokia so you're being punished for wanting this? Not to mention your carrier might not be selling Nokia phones but only HTC/Samsung instead, so you're being punished for that too?
All that will get is negative reaction towards the platform as a whole. And before I get the stupid "you already know that, just buy a Nokia if you want these games" comment, most people don't go on XDA/Engadget/Pocketnow/WPCentral and wouldn't know about this deal so they would just feel cheated when they realise they can't play Dead Space because they bought a Titan. They're being punished because they don't visit tech websites, well done.
A smarter deal is to make the games available to all but free (or very cheap) to Nokia users, that way everyone wins.

Peew971 said:
This is an idiotic move. The last thing you want for the platform as a whole is bad publicity which you will definitely get because you're punishing people who made a choice of OEM that suited them better.
If you want SAMOLED+/4"+ screen/FF Camera/32GB+ Storage you will definitely not buy a Nokia so you're being punished for wanting this? Not to mention your carrier might not be selling Nokia phones but only HTC/Samsung instead, so you're being punished for that too?
All that will get is negative reaction towards the platform as a whole. And before I get the stupid "you already know that, just buy a Nokia if you want these games" comment, most people don't go on XDA/Engadget/Pocketnow/WPCentral and wouldn't know about this deal so they would just feel cheated when they realise they can't play Dead Space because they bought a Titan. They're being punished because they don't visit tech websites, well done.
A smarter deal is to make the games available to all but free (or very cheap) to Nokia users, that way everyone wins.
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Bad publicity? Punishment?
Where exactly were these games before Nokia commissioned the makers to bring them to the mobile world? And I think this is a false sense of entitlement. Exclusivity occurs quite often. Do you ***** and complain when ATT / Verizon / TMo have exclusive phones? Do you talk about negative publicity when XBox / PS3 / Wii has an exclusive title?
Peew, I may be wrong, but I think you made up your mind that nothing good can come out of anything related to this WP venture so anything that does happen is no good.
Nokia may spend a whole heap of money and it may not turn into a massive success, but there really is nothing wrong with what they are trying to do here. In the mobile industry you need something that differentiates you from the rest. Something that gives the consumer an incentive to choose your handset.

nicksti said:
Bad publicity? Punishment?
Where exactly were these games before Nokia commissioned the makers to bring them to the mobile world? And I think this is a false sense of entitlement. Exclusivity occurs quite often. Do you ***** and complain when ATT / Verizon / TMo have exclusive phones? Do you talk about negative publicity when XBox / PS3 / Wii has an exclusive title?
Nokia may spend a whole heap of money and it may not turn into a massive success, but there really is nothing wrong with what they are trying to do here. In the mobile industry you need something that differentiates you from the rest. Something that gives the consumer an incentive to choose your handset.
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This carrier exclusive phone nonsense only happens in the US, why the universe lets it happen is beyond me so no I don't ***** about this.
Now to your point, let me remind you why Nokia joined Microsoft... They want Windows Phone to grow as the 3rd ecosystem, that's their own statement. If you talk ecosystem you must include all your partners, in that case the other OEMs. You can't compare this with exclusive titles on Xbox/PS3/Wii, these are competing companies! Here is a real comparison: Nokia getting exclusive games is like making games only available to the new Xbox 360 S. What about all these people who bought the original 360 and put up with it even during hard times? What's the valid argument to them not getting these games when they essentially own the same machine?
Like I said, if they want to give people incentive to choose Nokia they could just make these games free or cheap on these handsets.
nicksti said:
Peew, I may be wrong, but I think you made up your mind that nothing good can come out of anything related to this WP venture so anything that does happen is no good.
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I won't dignify this with an answer.

Sony makes comment "Nobody relly cares for Windows Phone"

WT? Sony makes comment "Nobody relly cares for Windows Phone"

What is Sony? And why would we care what a bleeding company says?
Oh right, they made good stuff 20 years ago.

EgoMaximus said:
What is Sony? And why would we care what a bleeding company says?
Oh right, they made good stuff 20 years ago.
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LOL more like 30 years agao, the Walkman and the Watchman were it back then. LOL.

I am sorry but Sony is nobody. They are just hater who can't make a buck over the smartphone market-share.

I care.
My name isn't nobody.

Im happy because they do only crap phones. A friend of mine works at the 3 store in my town and there is alot of complains about the Xperia phones, they have bugs and laggs...
But serious stupid thing to say especially now when Nokias lumia series is doing so good in Europe..

borjeboy said:
But serious stupid thing to say especially now when Nokias lumia series is doing so good in Europe..
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In Europe people buy Nokia not WindowsPhone, so thats bad for MS. WP is not the selling point, but the Nokia brand instead. Sony is wack, their last good phone was SE K800.
Sent from my GT-I9000

telep said:
In Europe people buy Nokia not WindowsPhone, so thats bad for MS. WP is not the selling point, but the Nokia brand instead. Sony is wack, their last good phone was SE K800.
Sent from my GT-I9000
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Make that the K850, I loved the glow around the camera lens.
Anyway, its their loss. PS3 sales lower than Xbox 360, not to mention PSVita not really that successful and pocket-friendly. Xperia line is crap, too many bloatware. SEN, again, not really successful. So far all their efforts are poured directly to mobile and gaming tech, yet they cant seem to reach their goal.
But like they said, WHO CARES!
If they were to adopt WP, they would be as successful as Nokia, well at least HTC. Then again, too bad theyre poor now to buy WP licences... but WHO CARES! We have Nokia, a company that's so popular, everyone knows it.

borjeboy said:
Im happy because they do only crap phones. A friend of mine works at the 3 store in my town and there is alot of complains about the Xperia phones, they have bugs and laggs...
But serious stupid thing to say especially now when Nokias lumia series is doing so good in Europe..
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Do you have some sales numbers I missed for nokia in eu ?

Sony who?, Sony really has not made a product that has made me stop and look since the ps3, they use to be a leader in high quality consume electronics but the quality has dropped steadily over the years. Take for instance there HIFI rang such as the sony multiki, on the other hand the ps3 was made from relatively expensive hardware that was way too hard to program for and as a result has not performed half as well as the pervious generations.
I don’t know what is about the experia brand but I simply don’t like any of the phones, perhaps it is my current perception of the Sony brand or the fact the sony GUI on android is horrible or that I don’t find any of the phones to aesthetically pleasing. Sony seems to be stuck in the 2004 bubble of industrial design where chrome and space age designs were in.
Either way the company is haemorrhaging money and either need to compete on price of differentiate them self again perhaps again as a high quality manufacture or going though the rout of windows phone.

Now thats funny
Sony are a disgrace, split from ericsson, trying to make a comeback.........hoping beyond hope that they are able to drag their sorry asses over the line.
Sorry Sony but i sure as hell wont be buying your mobile products even if you do go with WP as an OS, i'm sure that every other person from the Xperia X1 forums or indeed anyone who has owned an Xperia will agree whole heartedly. The build quality (abhorrent at best), customer service (refusal to believe even after thousands had posted proof, that their crappy chassis fail was a manufacturing issue) and general all round experience with Sony over the last few years has soured me from even contemplating as much.........set aside the complete shambles with the PS3 a while back and their fantastic apology gift of a couple of crappy platinum games.
You just want to release cheap garbage and overcharge massively for it.........SO HELL NO!!.......F*£K YOU SONY!!!
...........and back on point, Sony are not exaclty qualified on any level any more to pass comment. Since when were they suddenly "in touch with the people"

I'm a big fan of windows phone but let's be honest....what he said is not that wrong....up to now windows phone has made next to no impact on the smartphone user market.
MS has completely failed at marketing this awesome product....I love being different but if they don't kick the promotion up a notch, I'll be different with a product with no future...

lip said:
I'm a big fan of windows phone but let's be honest....what he said is not that wrong....up to now windows phone has made next to no impact on the smartphone user market.
MS has completely failed at marketing this awesome product....I love being different but if they don't kick the promotion up a notch, I'll be different with a product with no future...
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I agree 100% with your first paragraph. If we go down the line everyone is going down in this thread, we are saying if we are not in a better position we cannot be critical. Just because Sony is not doing well does not mean what they are saying is wrong. Windows Phone sure would not fix Sony right now so it is not an option for them.
Now the second part. Did Google do a wonderful job marketing Android in the early stages? With the Phil Jackson and Whoopi Goldberg G1 ads? I do not believe they did. But they had a product that everyone else needed at the time. The rest was left up to the carriers and the oems.

While Sony isn't wrong in what they said (based on market share so far), its pretty irresponsible of them to say it publicly like that. Especially since it would benefit them to remain on good terms with MS in the computing and tablet arena.
If they ever need to start making Windows Phones in the future (assuming WP does well over time, and Android ect doesn't pan out long term) they are not going to have an upper hand at the negotiating table.
That being said, in the present, nobody really cares about Sony TV's, computers, Phones. The only thing they have going for them right now is the play station.

dtboos said:
While Sony isn't wrong in what they said (based on market share so far), its pretty irresponsible of them to say it publicly like that. Especially since it would benefit them to remain on good terms with MS in the computing and tablet arena.
If they ever need to start making Windows Phones in the future (assuming WP does well over time, and Android ect doesn't pan out long term) they are not going to have an upper hand at the negotiating table.
That being said, in the present, nobody really cares about Sony TV's, computers, Phones. The only thing they have going for them right now is the play station.
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I agree. In life you should never burn your bridges. Apple said never again to nVidia and now they are right back there. Sony doing a Windows Phone with Xbox Live in it was always quite a bitter pill for them I would imagine. The first review of the Xperia S I read was not so kind about the build, but Sony is onto something with the look of it. Too many poor decisions by Sony. Nintendo is the king of mobile consoles and struggled to sell the initially priced 3DS outside of Japan. Sony follows suit with the more expensive than the entry level console handheld?

nicksti said:
I agree. In life you should never burn your bridges. Apple said never again to nVidia and now they are right back there. Sony doing a Windows Phone with Xbox Live in it was always quite a bitter pill for them I would imagine. The first review of the Xperia S I read was not so kind about the build, but Sony is onto something with the look of it. Too many poor decisions by Sony. Nintendo is the king of mobile consoles and struggled to sell the initially priced 3DS outside of Japan. Sony follows suit with the more expensive than the entry level console handheld?
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The fact: Sony doesn't make a buck with Microsoft...
They don't product any hardware that is designed for Microsoft Os.

Strike_Eagle said:
The fact: Sony doesn't make a buck with Microsoft...
They don't product any hardware that is designed for Microsoft Os.
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You sure about that?

To all those who are saying "who cares"; Sony are still very relevant in the smartphone market.
Their Xperia lines are selling well in Asia, and latest figures show it has shipped/sold nearly 20m Android handsets worldwide; this is more units than all WP7 phone manufacturers put together.
Sony make nice looking and feeling hardware; the Xperia Ray is one of the nicest smart-phones I've ever played with, hardware wise (not sure about the OS), and having a desirable WP7 fashion phone would be a huge boost.

Aphasaic2002 said:
To all those who are saying "who cares"; Sony are still very relevant in the smartphone market.
Their Xperia lines are selling well in Asia, and latest figures show it has shipped/sold nearly 20m Android handsets worldwide; this is more units than all WP7 phone manufacturers put together.
Sony make nice looking and feeling hardware; the Xperia Ray is one of the nicest smart-phones I've ever played with, hardware wise (not sure about the OS), and having a desirable WP7 fashion phone would be a huge boost.
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Link?
Shipped or Sold? Nokia shipped about over a million in a month of lumia launch, doesn't mean it sold them.

drupad2drupad said:
Link?
Shipped or Sold? Nokia shipped about over a million in a month of lumia launch, doesn't mean it sold them.
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Shipped or Sold is one of my favorite points about wp7. There are no hard sales numbers, anywhere (please prove me wrong, someone).
Apple jumps up and down with X million iphones sold FIRST DAY ON SALE, and google shows X00,000 activations, per day.
Meanwhile, from microsoft, nothing.
The point is, microsoft has to prove that people do care... with sales numbers. Or maybe they don't. Apparently they do not yet...

The Google and Apple battle gets uglier

Before I give my opinion, I must admit that my opinions may not hold true legally. I know little more than DMV laws. Nor am I a tech expert, insider or historian. I will be wrong on some facts, but I believe that my overall analysis will stand true.
Apple isn't really hitting Google as hard as some may think.
Google and apple are 2 forces that have an inverse success relationship. This we all know. They compete over the same market. This was from day 1, heck, even before then (depending on how you judge when day 1 was).
This is a fact that hasn't gone unseen to them both. They choose 2 tactics to deal with that issue. Apple chose to gain fame and sales through marketing, and got patents on all that's under the sun. A tactic that may look ugly, but money doesn't care.
Google, on the other hand, doesn't look perfect either. They gave ALL the freedom to developers, and opened the platform up. This protects them from apple, to a degree, because they aren't accountable for the actions of others. This gave their platform an advantage over the legal system and the rights of others.
I dislike apple, and like google, but that's not worth a thing. Google's tactics are healthier towards the market. Apple kills development... Outside apple itself.
The thing is, apple can continue to harm the android platform, and never kill it, ever. This is because android is open, and devs and manufacturers will always adjust.
Google, on the other hand, only needs one hit on ios, One injunction, and apple is dead in the water. Apple has, in many senses, only one device (the iphone and ipad are not that different). If they can stop the iphone OR the ipad, they don't need to settle, they can keep devices off the market for weeks, months or even permanently (if it's a hardware issue).
Keep in mind that most apple devices are produced BEFORE THE FIRST PIECE IS SOLD. So once google stops a device, apple's sales stop for a year (or so). apple can throw all what it made in the sea, or ship them overseas.
Also keep in mind, that most development and it's financial backing (as in app sales), is within US borders. This means IOS will effectively die.
BUT
What's hard to believe, is that both parties needed the existence of each other. In this case, each of them needed a competitor (though they each wanted the bigger piece of the pie). Economics says that competition creates demand, and in some cases vice versa. Ex: look at Pepsi and coke. They gained by competing, through keeping the other soda manufacturers out. The war between these two tech giants helped them sell devices.
Part of the reason that the current situation got so ugly, is that the market has a new competitor, a crappy one too (apple and Google's wet dream). Microsoft has taken apple's closed stance. This allows for the existence of google, not apple, as it is a more direct competition with the latter. Microsoft also gains if it remains in the market with Android, even as a weaker party, because it gets so much money off most android manufacturers (through licensing settlements) .
This whole situation is a move to drive apple out of the market. Apple's is clawing everyone cause it knows that it's being choked. Apple will not hold back any card that will keep it alive, even suing a search engine for searching for stuff.
THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING.
Am I right?
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Sent from my banned Galaxy Nexus

If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.

It's all been dramatized to elicit blog clicks. Nothing will be the end or death or ruin of either of them, they'll just posture enough and setup a convincing enough legal threat by building precedent with these little cases until they're forced into some sort of cross licensing deal. It's business, not politics, or religion. Don't believe the hype.

Well patent for notification center will be an exact stop point for Apple because they have only few devices that uses same OS. It's not the same as Android where one condition applies to a minority of devices.
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.

Djabolic said:
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.
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Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.

1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
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And that is the core of apple. Misleading when they use the full shiny apple when in reality it should be a picture of a rotten core.
butter and jelly please...

Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!

I have yet to understand why Google hasn't sued apple back. For example, one of apples newest features is from android. The feature in which when you receive a call you can reply back with a text stating "i am driving" for instance. Meanwhile, the apple notification Center was biggest steal ever. Finally, they sued amazon for calling their store the App store. App store is just to generic they honestly can't have a patent on that....
It is as if i sued a grocery store because i have a patent on the word grocery store so they can't call themselves grocery store.
Samsung Galaxy s2 Nuclear Rocket - Embryo 3.2 [UCLE2 BASE]
iPhone 4S - Gave it away, not cool enough
iPhone 3GS - Went for a Swim
Dog - Custom Rom [Golden Retriever] [BEAR2 BASE]

LuffyPSP said:
Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!
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the idea of joining forces may seem childish to some, but a quick look at the Rockstar Consortium should change their minds. The problem with that idea is that apple is not their #1 competitor, other android manufacturers are. Google is the only party that can lead a case against apple (on software at least), and Google has been holding back since the start.
My guess is that, that's about to change

1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
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I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.

Djabolic said:
I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.
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I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest

Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
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Bet she comes back to the light.
butter and jelly please...

Djabolic said:
If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.
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Click to collapse
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
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Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

BrianDigital said:
Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
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Yes adding media outside of iTunes sucks. And god forbid you have to use a different computer than the one the iPhone was originally synced on.

i agree with many points. but in my opinion google isn´t so much interested in producing and selling mobile phones. it´s more to keep people related to google itself. the search, email, chat, google+ etc... and i think there´s much more. the accounts and usage of them are important for google itself. the hardware developers samsung htc etc... they sell phones to make money with hardware, google with android and google products. i think android would be enough for supply and demand, because that´s the competition of the hardware-manufacturers (samsung, htc, etc...). i think the mainreasons is the market to keep android alive. as u see with nexus7, google isn´t interested in selling hardware, just to get their software sold. 200$ isn´t much for the hardware. google wants to sell the hardware a) to get as many people to google b) to ace apple out of the market. google makes money with selling software over their market. and with the new market, tv, movies and more. on the other hand, if more people get android, less will stay with apple.
may be, google will become monopolist on the market. dunno, dislike apple and me as customer, i profit from google products. as in op, the policy is more friendly of google than apple.
(sry for may bad english in some cases )

Anthonok said:
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
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One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.

adrynalyne said:
One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.
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Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

Anthonok said:
Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
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That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.

adrynalyne said:
That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.
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They just got the patent for water damage detection and the shape of the macbook air... aka just a thin "wedge" shape... and something extremely similar to Google glass.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex

HTC Fights Back. A Win Against Apple.

HTC bought S3, a graphics company, for $300MM USD in order to defend itself against an onslaught of competitors going after them for patent violations. Owning patents yourself forces a kind of detente as people won’t sue you for fear of you suing them back. Until now HTC’s been naked. In an earlier review last year a panel at the US Patent and Trademark Office said S3/HTC’s patents couldn’t be used against Apple. HTC appealed and a review handed down yesterday upheld the patent’s validity and Apple is now in violation of them. Ironically it’s for the Mac PC line, not mobile devices. At least now HTC has some sort of leverage against all the litigation being thrown at them by Apple.
Here’s what HTC said…
“We are gratified by the USPTO’s decision, which proves again that buying the patents from S3 was a significant and correct move for HTC.”
“We will continue to defend our interests and fight actively against any companies that infringe on our rights,” it said.
Here's the full story...
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2012/07/12/2003537510

Interesting Article. The power of patents just sometimes amuses me. Google bought Motorola for the same thing.

I fainted since the third word :victory: It's S3 actually..
The S3 bought over isn't recent article, HTC actually taking risks on the bought over of S3 from VIA since both of them are Cher Wang's. The actions may lead to some legal issues by taiwan laws that prevent on "arm-length transactions", they seems already get a pass from the verdict though.

Thanks for the link
awesome news and about damn time
but you want to tell me that out of all these patents HTC only got two? that are still under review
is it really worth it?

hamdir said:
but you want to tell me that out of all these patents HTC only got two? that are still under review
is it really worth it?
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You tell me? Apple got HTC's new phones stopped at the border for weeks by U.S. Customs based on just one patent. If HTC can get an import ban applied to Apple's new retina display Mac Books they've just started selling I think that would probably get Apple's attention.
HebeGuess said:
I fainted since the third word :victory: It's S3 actually.
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Chips, graphics companies, they're all the same. Thanks, I fixed it.