Develop Bugs

Nokia & Microsoft Agreement

Here are the details of the Nokia/Microsoft partnership
Nokia will deliver mapping, navigation and location based services to the Windows Phone 7 eco system.
Nokia will provide imaging and hardware design expertise, carrier billing connections and receive payments for its intellectual properties.
Nokia will be paying royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone 7 device they make, but they’ll receive payments “in the billions” from Microsoft.
A Nokia-branded app store will be built on the Windows Marketplace infrastructure.
Source

Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...

I have seen my share of phones (like the same 5200 Nokia which was one of their early attempts to crack into the SE music market) and I personally have always hated the UI. I thought it to be difficult to navigate and unintuitive (I owned a P1, W960i, and Vivaz which admitted are not S^3 devices).
Which point of view do you not understand? Both companies did it as a matter of survival. People will argue about who needed who more but everyone does benefit tremendously:
Nokia - Symbian was dying. Nokia is huge in Asia but lacks significant presence in USA. What Nokia wants out of the deal is a smartphone platform that makes them relevant. They probably believe with their superior telephony and hardware they will be able to jump ahead of the pack.
Microsoft - Windows Phone did not have the wildly successful start that Microsoft would have hoped for. They wanted something that would allow them to pick up more customers.
I am one of those customers that drools about the possibility of a Nokia W8 phone (N8 with Windows on it) or a W7 (E7 with Windows on it). I have always thought the two more balanced phone makers out there were Nokia and SE. Good optics, good battery life, well built phones. SE suffers from too much design reuse and intercompeting phone and Nokia in the past could have made better looking phones, but good phones none the less.
Nokia really needed it. Smartphone sales are a huge chunk of everyone's revenue now and this will give them a promising platform to be part of.
Why Windows as opposed to Android I am not touching with a 10 foot pole. That will go nowhere fast.

sure haven't said:
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
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Nokia are the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in Europe. They have the biggest brand as well (IMO I can't back that up with any facts but it'd be a widespread opinion).
It's like Motorola or Palm, how big they are in the US. Motorola's "Revival" with Android did wonders for the Android OS. Nokia's with Windows Phone will have a similar or dare I say greater effect.
The ovi store has around 40,000 applications. 3.5m apps are downloaded per day from Ovi Store.
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.

brummiesteven said:
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
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Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.

nicksti said:
Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
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Yeah the flip I was referring to was that one old phone aggess ago. It was quite a brick but it was a phone on the outside and you flip it open and it turned into a laptop (well a mini phone laptop thing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9110_Communicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E90_Communicator
The first edition was kinda like a Motorola Atrix for the late 90s
Edit: Also I agree with you on optics, the N95 is the best Camera Phone I've owned to date (and my last Nokia Phone). N8 photos look amazing.

The thing about Nokia for me is build quality........
I had a 3310 "back in the day" and an N95 before my HD2, both those phones had the absolute crap beaten out of them and didnt even suffer as much as a loose battery cover......
Obviously I cant be certain that kind of quality applies to all their phones but in my experience it has been solid and I would seriously consider a Nokia phone running WP7
Oh yeah, as the guy above me mentioned...... camera's......
The N95 camera was awesome. Not that I ever used it much. Im sure some people actually give a crap about that sort of thing though.

I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight

sure haven't said:
Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers?
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They did and they were/are.
Nokia phones have always been the most popular, most bought etc. In 2007 Symbian had a smartphone marketshare of 67%. Symbian is still going strong in many European and Asian markets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose

sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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the Nokia phone's hardware was/is pretty awesome. They were never best sellers because of the software, thus the deal.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

When I think of Nokia the first thing that comes to mind is hardware not software. Fortunately, the software part is handled by Windows Phone 7. I am very interested in a Nokia WP7 because the build quality will be outstanding and the optics will awesome. Add Mango to the equation and it'll be a hit, hopefully.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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The answer is different depending on the region.
Nokia is big in Africa, Asia (incl India & Pakistan) and other developing nations. I recall reading an article explaining how they have a superior business model in these places.
I admit a little ignorance about Nokia in the last year in the UK but I would figure they still do reasonably well and probably took a hit in their high end offering (N series) and business offering (E series).
The E series for them used to be big. Remember, the E series before the E72 supported BB service and was wildly popular. Fast forward to now, when is the last time you have seen a Nokia smartphone advertise on T-Mobile / Verizon / AT&T? I know I cannot recall.
It cost Microsoft more than it cost Nokia, so Microsoft has more to lose. They both have lots to gain. The only thing I do hope is Nokia does not hoodwink Microsoft (keep developing Symbian, use some of what it learnt from WP7, and then push it out to compete).
But I think lots of people on this board would love to have a Mango Nokia phone.

I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.

Good to learn Ovi maps are coming to all WP7 platform.

doministry said:
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
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Nokia claims they will leave it stock despite having the green light to customize. I bet their thinking that they will have their own Marketplace area where only Nokia phones will be able to get software that will give them the leg up on the competition since they can put out some good stuff.
...until they stumble onto XDA and see people are using their stuff on HTC phones. Then things get ugly.

Yes, I can assure you Nokia is a strong brand and very famous in Asia. I would prefer Nokia's hardware over Samsung or HTC when Windows Phone 7 is officially available from Nokia.

Nokia is strong not only in Asia and Africa, it's strong in Europe as well. The only part of the world where it isn't is the US.
Also, contrary to a popular media story, they don't have big problems with sales, which are growing (albeit their market share declines because others are growing faster). They have a huge problem with costs, and specifically with huge R&D costs which are killing their bottom line. Symbian is doing rather well on mid- and low-end smartphones, but they long ago needed something else for the high end. They started development there but the costs are prohibitive. That's exactly what HP will find out in a year or two.

HP won't have those issues because WebOS does not have the issues that Symbian has. WebOS is a decent, modern OS right now. Symbian is just an aging OS that they continued to throw features in year after year. In the end, it can do almost anything, but it's a train wreck to use, and it's ugly - point blank.
Also, HP makes a ton of money in the PC Hardware/Printer business and can easily fund WebOS development. They also have their own Mainframe UNIX OS (HP-UX) and they sell that hardware as well. Funding Palm will not be a problem for HP, just as Funding Visual Studio/WP7 isn't an issue for Microsoft, or funding Solaris won't be an issue for Oracle...

It's not like Nokia doesn't have cash. It just costs too much to develop and maintain an OS if you aren't a software company. With multiple OEMs costs are spread, while when you go it alone you assume 100%. So you have to either make super profitable devices like Apple or to make dozens of them to make sure you sell lots and lots. HP is flushing money down the toilet, and they'll waste more over the years.

Nokia has been developing and maintaining Symbian for decades. They're as much a Software company as Palm was.
And the reason why their phones don't sell here is only half in fault of Symbian. In addition to having an OS they neglected to work on crap like Maemo/MeeGo/etc. they also used ridiculously cheap internals, put them in a nice build quality, and thought people here (many of us with money to spare) would buy that ****.
Who wants to buy an N8 with a crappy nHD screen resolution, Symbian, terrible processor, lacking in RAM, etc. for $600+ when they can get an iPhone or Android device with twice the specs and much more to offer? Cause the camera is good? Lol. Oh, it's cause Nokia build quality is awesome, even though maybe 75% of people put their smartphones in a case, anyways...
It has nothing to do with that. Nokia did what Microsoft did with Windows Mobile and they got plowed. That's what the issue is. Cost is not a factor, although developing a new OS from scratch MAY be. But nothing was stopping Nokia from revamping the Symbian UI and boosting their smartphone specs up (and using higher res screens). While cost may be a factor now, Symbian's "demise" wasn't instant. It happened over years-worth of time and if Nokia had been doing what they should have (just like Microsoft with Windows Mobile) they would not be in this situation today.
Microsoft basically took Windows CE and put a new user experience on top of it then called it Windows Phone 7. Nokia could have done the same with Symbian.
But to say that HP will have troubles with WebOS is what I really took notice of. It's a bit of a Naive statement to make.
People will probably even buy HP printers to get the WebOS tablets that come attached to them, Lol...
Now, an interesting tidbit is that every major smartphone OS that is developed for a manufacturer's own device seems to be packaged in terrible hardware (as in the internals/specs) - except Apple. Nokia, RIM, and Palm all have/had terrible internals in their phone. Even if in some cases the software was completely awesome (WebOS). Even then, Apple makes several concessions in their products to keep margins up (iPad 2/iTouch cameras, no HSPA+ in the iPhone, going from PowerPC to Intel on the Desktop, etc.).

Windows Phone Market Share

Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php

We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.

^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.

Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/

slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.

Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.

If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.

Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted

There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.

The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...

ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).

N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
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Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...

Did Nokia really save WP7?

I was expecting more. Much more. And Nokia disappointed me. First, I think I'm not astonished because I've seen the hardware before. At June.
The Lumia 710, it's pretty nice and cheap. It's great!
But hey, where is the front camera? Every device nowadays should have one. Even if I dont use it, I want it. Skype is just around the corner (hope so) and it will allow, or should, video calling.
So, Nokia did save WP7? Everyone was expecting this day to foresee the WP7 future. What now?
Saved or Doomed?

I don't think they've done either - it will survive with or without Nokia. What I do think they've done is totally shot themselves in the foot by leaving out FFC. Think I'll be getting the Titan now to replace my HD7, very disappointed with Nokia on this one.

I totally don't care about the front facing camera, so it's hard for me to see it as a make or break feature for the platform.

They weren't supposed to release some super awesome device.
The idea is that Nokia is a massive brand in Europe, has the biggest market share (despite relying on a dying OS, Symbian, and having competition from the iPhone) and brand. People will buy Nokias because they're Nokias. A certain premium comes from Nokias as seen with the unique design on the Lumia 800.
It's the equivalent of Apple going suddenly ditching iOS and deciding to go with Android and then releasing an iPhone 4S with Android.

I am more than disappointed by Nokia.
But this was predictable. They are just focusing mass customers and developping countries with low end devices...
I will stay with HTC or move to Android. That's pretty sad.

Looks like the 710 supports SD card, that's interesting
---------- Post added at 03:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------
arturobandini said:
I am more than disappointed by Nokia.
But this was predictable. They are just focusing mass customers and developping countries with low end devices...
I will stay with HTC or move to Android. That's pretty sad.
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Think its important to note that these are just the 2011 devices. The rumors have suggested upwards of 12 Nokia phones in various form factors by the end of 2012.

Doomed....lol
Nokia don't save WP7...Windows 8 will...

Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!

sylau90 said:
Doomed....lol
Nokia don't save WP7...Windows 8 will...
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I hope so!

Worldwide? I'm not from Nokia, but they took 9 months to take a device that they probably already had (N9), put some buttons and the OS. If XDA hackers would want to, they could put WP7 OS in N9 in 2 months or less. But nobody cares at all. Whatever, the point is.. they took 9 months to create a device that isnt a killer device, and they forgot the "Worldwide" word. Not even US. Rumors that they will arrive here at February. 4 months? Not even Apple is that slow.
And the Lumia 710 is the only device that surprised me, not for it's specs, but the price is nice.
And frontal camera isnt a feature that would turn me away from a device, but that's us. If I can have a bigger (not Titan bigger) screen and a frontal camera for the same price, I would choose the bigger screen, thanks.
But yeah, Lumia 800 is sexy.

pwachleman said:
Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!
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Looks like Nokia's plan gonna fail...Think their strategy managers need to go back to school...
They gonna focus on China and India,which gonna fail real soon...Although they are huge population there,but it doesn't means you gonna success.
Lets make some simple assumption, especially in China now,what's most important for a developing country?they will definitely promote local company to grow rather than allow foreign companies to dominate their market such as Nokia. Even apple Ipad and Iphone tax so high in China. I can say that they are over hundread phone manufacturer in China who making KIRF phones...And now,here is the most important part,when talking about KIRF phone,nowadays they already started to use android(the green army).Why?cause it is free,no license fee or anything...
Therefore, the protection towards local investment and the "Free" goddess of Android will simply block Nokia out.
Lastly, don't think that people in developing countries won't want a high end-device...
It is a tough game for Nokia now,Anyway,windows phone 7 will be safe until the Windows 8 is released,complete integration,sync and kinect....
Doomed for Nokia...cheers

Everybody in this forum who makes $7/hr bagging groceries always knows that the bigger company sucks at planning, marketing and developing. Just watch & see whether they succeed or fail, none of us have any idea who will buy it.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

$7/hr bagging groceries are a good measurement and good enough to judge their low end phones...Anyway,Thanks for your reminder.
Nokia starts to lose their ground...Take nine months to copy their own design on N9...great stuffs...
People with name starts with steve sucks ball( steve'n elop, steve ballmer), except steve jobs....
It is just silly Elop is praising their Nokia N9 sales are great while he is the one who killed the device.

mikeeam said:
Worldwide? I'm not from Nokia, but they took 9 months to take a device that they probably already had (N9), put some buttons and the OS. If XDA hackers would want to, they could put WP7 OS in N9 in 2 months or less. But nobody cares at all. Whatever, the point is.. they took 9 months to create a device that isnt a killer device, and they forgot the "Worldwide" word. Not even US. Rumors that they will arrive here at February. 4 months? Not even Apple is that slow.
And the Lumia 710 is the only device that surprised me, not for it's specs, but the price is nice.
And frontal camera isnt a feature that would turn me away from a device, but that's us. If I can have a bigger (not Titan bigger) screen and a frontal camera for the same price, I would choose the bigger screen, thanks.
But yeah, Lumia 800 is sexy.
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LOL Sure they could

pwachleman said:
Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!
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that's because us consumers rejected them and carriers followed as a result, thanks to Symbian.
tHe phones are cute but I can care less what it looks looks like. They go in cases to keep their resale value as high as possible.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

Expecting the flood of hate to commence in 3,..2,...1.... go!
Oh, forgot to mention. The 800 actually lists USB storage mode and TV out as features. So as usual, the haters always focus on the negatives but the oft requested features are ignored. OK, back to the hating!!

efjay said:
Expecting the flood of hate to commence in 3,..2,...1.... go!
Oh, forgot to mention. The 800 actually lists USB storage mode and TV out as features. So as usual, the haters always focus on the negatives but the oft requested features are ignored. OK, back to the hating!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It also says FLAC and AVI support. For me it's now down to Nokia 800 and Samsung Focus S

I dont get all the hate i love this phone already and will be getting one on the 16th. I dont get what you are expecting tbh some sort or cyborg tech from the future? We all knew what WP7 supports etc and as for the rest of it i cant think of a better looking well made handset and the screen looks lush

Don't think its devices that will save WP7. It is marketing and retailer influence, which it looks like Nokia is taking very seriously.

Sure, the Lumia 800 looks decent and has pretty cool features, like navigation. However for a flagship device i miss a FFC, not that I need one but a flagship device should have one. With 16GB this device will be a great option to jump on the WP7 train if priced right. However if the Omnia W comes out around the same prcing I'll go for that. Because it has a FFC... But we'll see...

Now nokia is pulling out some big guns.

Enlisting top game developers like EA and Hasbro to make some Nokia exclusive games. Games like tiger woods PGA tour 11, madden 11, NBA Jam, Dead Space, The Game of Life, and plenty more. I knew Nokia wasn't going to blow us away with specs, it's all about quality and marketing with Nokia, one of the oldest and hands down the greatest cellphone OEM. I can't wait to play NFS: Shift.

Series 40 Nokia devices.
Would be beyond retarded for those developers to release apps and games exclusively for one WP7 device.

vetvito said:
Series 40 Nokia devices.
Would be beyond retarded for those developers to release apps and games exclusively for one WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not only series 40, they're releasing some wp7 games as well that will initially be only for nokia's wp7 devices and are expected to broaden after the exclusive effect wears off. It's not the 40 free games that they promise for series 40 but it's something. Also, there are two Nokia devices. I have a two 800s headed here now and will get a 710 when it comes stateside.

Its 40 free games for the S40 and 20 Nokia exclusive games for WP7.

Zee, how about your rich ass send me a device! Show me some love bro.

Should make things interesting...

Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
I gotta be honest, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, if it is indeed true.
I work with marketing, please don't give me a line about how this is supposedly genius.
This is like bizarro world or something.

sure haven't said:
Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
I gotta be honest, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, if it is indeed true.
I work with marketing, please don't give me a line about how this is supposedly genius.
This is like bizarro world or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Struggling platform - true.
Subpar 2nd gen devices - so they won't be able to run on the Nokia 1.4GHz phones?
Won't hit North America - so the world = North America?
If you work with marketing then you would understand that you satisfy your base and then expand. People game in the UK and Asia. Nokia is biggest in the UK and Asia. This is a principle of business.
I know, a better idea would be to do nothing at all. How is it Nokia's fault that they decided to commission game companies to do something with their phone that would bring some attention to it? This is exactly what SE tried to do with their Play phone. Gaming on phones is where things are at and the companies know this, hence the focus on it with the iPhone during the last conference.
It is like some people made up their minds to dislike any move some companies make. No, Nokia don't pay companies money to bring popular games exclusively to your phone. No, gaming companies don't take Nokia's money.
Right.

No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?

can't wait to see how well dead space run on WP7/ adreno 205 GPU...
Can't wait to see how long the developers going to support their games on WP7...
Have been stop buying games for months since the developers of harvester(games that microsoft claimed the one of the best graphic) zombie attacks 2 and de blob stop updating their games...
cool stuffs.

vetvito said:
No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think about it Vet. Did these companies launch these titles on a mobile platform prior to Nokia approaching them? No, op it is actually even smarter for the developers.
I want you to take your year old game: Vetvito 2011. Never mind Vetvito 2012 is about to launch, I will pay you to build the old one for my platform. When all is said and done I would have paid you to develop a framework to run one of your popular reoccuring gaming titles on a mobile platform.
Smile all the way to the bank.
Everyone is a winner.

sure haven't said:
Awful idea.
You have a struggling platform, and you release major titles (the likes of which were promised about the initial launch) only on sub par "2nd Gen" devices that won't even hit North America for a year?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't realize Early 2012 was a year away

This is an absolutely genius move. Do you not remember the call for ilomilo when it was an ATT exclusive. I literally had dozens of people approaching me asking me if I could get that game on their device as I'm more or less a local cellphone guru. People want what they can't have, let us Nokia WP7 users show it off first, show what WP7 can actually do, create some interest in not only the platform, but also the OEM. Then after the exclusivity factor wears off release them to all WP7 users, rinse, and repeat. Nokia is WP7's salvation and while it will take some time to hit America (three months I believe) it is hitting the Asian and European market right away and with a name like Nokia there you will sell. Many people there live and die by Nokia.

nicksti said:
Think about it Vet. Did these companies launch these titles on a mobile platform prior to Nokia approaching them? No, op it is actually even smarter for the developers.
I want you to take your year old game: Vetvito 2011. Never mind Vetvito 2012 is about to launch, I will pay you to build the old one for my platform. When all is said and done I would have paid you to develop a framework to run one of your popular reoccuring gaming titles on a mobile platform.
Smile all the way to the bank.
Everyone is a winner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think these are old games. Its FIFA 2012 for example. I can't read what the year on the Madden one is.
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------
z33dev33l said:
This is an absolutely genius move. Do you not remember the call for ilomilo when it was an ATT exclusive. I literally had dozens of people approaching me asking me if I could get that game on their device as I'm more or less a local cellphone guru. People want what they can't have, let us Nokia WP7 users show it off first, show what WP7 can actually do, create some interest in not only the platform, but also the OEM. Then after the exclusivity factor wears off release them to all WP7 users, rinse, and repeat. Nokia is WP7's salvation and while it will take some time to hit America (three months I believe) it is hitting the Asian and European market right away and with a name like Nokia there you will sell. Many people there live and die by Nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't really make any sense. It'd make sense if it was a Nokia exclusive and not available on iOS and Android. This is just screwing over people that are already on the WP7 platform and who chose not to buy a Nokia device.
This is good for Nokia, it is not good for the platform and its not good for the consumer.

vetvito said:
No, its not dumb of Nokia. Its actually smart of Nokia.
Its dumb as hell for the developers. Why limit yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Nokia probably pays them?

where the gold at?
Gold = iPhone user base for exclusive
Why, oh why take 1/5 of a check from Nokia, if it's even that much?

Here in the UK they have sponsored a whole TV Channel.

This is an idiotic move. The last thing you want for the platform as a whole is bad publicity which you will definitely get because you're punishing people who made a choice of OEM that suited them better.
If you want SAMOLED+/4"+ screen/FF Camera/32GB+ Storage you will definitely not buy a Nokia so you're being punished for wanting this? Not to mention your carrier might not be selling Nokia phones but only HTC/Samsung instead, so you're being punished for that too?
All that will get is negative reaction towards the platform as a whole. And before I get the stupid "you already know that, just buy a Nokia if you want these games" comment, most people don't go on XDA/Engadget/Pocketnow/WPCentral and wouldn't know about this deal so they would just feel cheated when they realise they can't play Dead Space because they bought a Titan. They're being punished because they don't visit tech websites, well done.
A smarter deal is to make the games available to all but free (or very cheap) to Nokia users, that way everyone wins.

Peew971 said:
This is an idiotic move. The last thing you want for the platform as a whole is bad publicity which you will definitely get because you're punishing people who made a choice of OEM that suited them better.
If you want SAMOLED+/4"+ screen/FF Camera/32GB+ Storage you will definitely not buy a Nokia so you're being punished for wanting this? Not to mention your carrier might not be selling Nokia phones but only HTC/Samsung instead, so you're being punished for that too?
All that will get is negative reaction towards the platform as a whole. And before I get the stupid "you already know that, just buy a Nokia if you want these games" comment, most people don't go on XDA/Engadget/Pocketnow/WPCentral and wouldn't know about this deal so they would just feel cheated when they realise they can't play Dead Space because they bought a Titan. They're being punished because they don't visit tech websites, well done.
A smarter deal is to make the games available to all but free (or very cheap) to Nokia users, that way everyone wins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bad publicity? Punishment?
Where exactly were these games before Nokia commissioned the makers to bring them to the mobile world? And I think this is a false sense of entitlement. Exclusivity occurs quite often. Do you ***** and complain when ATT / Verizon / TMo have exclusive phones? Do you talk about negative publicity when XBox / PS3 / Wii has an exclusive title?
Peew, I may be wrong, but I think you made up your mind that nothing good can come out of anything related to this WP venture so anything that does happen is no good.
Nokia may spend a whole heap of money and it may not turn into a massive success, but there really is nothing wrong with what they are trying to do here. In the mobile industry you need something that differentiates you from the rest. Something that gives the consumer an incentive to choose your handset.

nicksti said:
Bad publicity? Punishment?
Where exactly were these games before Nokia commissioned the makers to bring them to the mobile world? And I think this is a false sense of entitlement. Exclusivity occurs quite often. Do you ***** and complain when ATT / Verizon / TMo have exclusive phones? Do you talk about negative publicity when XBox / PS3 / Wii has an exclusive title?
Nokia may spend a whole heap of money and it may not turn into a massive success, but there really is nothing wrong with what they are trying to do here. In the mobile industry you need something that differentiates you from the rest. Something that gives the consumer an incentive to choose your handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This carrier exclusive phone nonsense only happens in the US, why the universe lets it happen is beyond me so no I don't ***** about this.
Now to your point, let me remind you why Nokia joined Microsoft... They want Windows Phone to grow as the 3rd ecosystem, that's their own statement. If you talk ecosystem you must include all your partners, in that case the other OEMs. You can't compare this with exclusive titles on Xbox/PS3/Wii, these are competing companies! Here is a real comparison: Nokia getting exclusive games is like making games only available to the new Xbox 360 S. What about all these people who bought the original 360 and put up with it even during hard times? What's the valid argument to them not getting these games when they essentially own the same machine?
Like I said, if they want to give people incentive to choose Nokia they could just make these games free or cheap on these handsets.
nicksti said:
Peew, I may be wrong, but I think you made up your mind that nothing good can come out of anything related to this WP venture so anything that does happen is no good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't dignify this with an answer.

Maybe I'm not average, but here's why I'm happy w/ my Lumia 900...

This post talks about a lot of devices besides the Lumia and as a result it is a little long, so I've bolded the key points for speed readers
I went on vacation last week and come back to an uproar about current devices not getting Windows 8 Phone updates (better name ), and honestly I really don't understand the vastness of the unrest. I get the points people make, but the conclusions are way out there for me!
My family is reasonably well equipped technology wise. I have an Alienware m17x, a 1st gen iPad, a Nokia Lumia 900, and a PS3. My wife has a Mac Book Pro 15, an iPad 2, and an iPhone 4s. The kids are on a Gateway desktop with an i7 in the living room. The kids also have iPods, one has a Pantec phone, several DS and LeapFrog devices. Rounding it all out is a smart Logitec universal touch screen remote, a sling box, several access points and a Wii. For the most part, we each pick the device that suits us best and fits in the price range / budget we set.
We also have laying around, an old Mac Book Pro 13, an iPhone 3s, an iPod, an 8 year old Dell XPS desktop, an HTC HD7, a Samsung Focus, a Tilt and a Tilt II, and an old Palm Tungsten C. And of course several candy bar and flip phone cells and various MP3 players, language translators and hand-held game thingies.
There's no way in hell I can have all of these devices on the crest of the technology wave all at once, we just can't afford it (in fact, my wife isn't so thrilled with how well stocked we are now... but there are times she's very happy with it :laugh.
My next major purchase will be a Win8 Tablet. I absolutely need to replace the iPad for work - the thing is a toy. In my quest for the ultimate portable work slate / play device, nothing out there has attracted my attention. Lack of connectivity, poor performance, a craptacular crayon-style writing on the iPad, lack-luster hardware, and the fact that I would also like an 11 to 13-inch screen has kept my money in my pocket. Obviously, I'm holding out until Win8 and the right tablet is there (eying the Yoga Flip closely!).
With the announcement of smart glass at E3, the urge was to jump on the deals and grab an XBox 360. ESPECIALLY since I could hook up all those iOS and possible future 'droid devices too! But, without BluRay support, I'm not going to bother. And with the next tablet purchase coming later this year (fingers crossed the right one is there in the next 6 months...), and with the 720 being rumored for the holidays next year. I'm waiting on switching from PS to XBOX when the 720 comes out, assuming the next-gen PS doesn't keep me in Sony Land.
It should be noted that along with the smart glass upgrade, I'll be looking at my existing Yamaha receiver and possibly upgrading that as well - my 5 year old model is good enough, but there are improvements out there and better ways to hook up the living room 'rack' - so that's also factored into the actual cost.
Which brings me to my jumping on the Lumia the day after it was available: I bought the Lumia knowing the risks of not being Win8 ready. I took the other slant with this upgrade as opposed to my next game machine and PC/Slate/Untrabook. I was contract-ready with AT&T, the price was right (and a few days later it was $0 - but they had me at $99), it had just enough improvements over my HD7 to entice me, and I didn't see me waiting until Q4 2012 or even Q1 or 2 2013 to get the phone upgraded.
Maybe it's within the context of all of the technology purchases I've got going on in my life that the Lumia 900 is just right for me. It is, by far, hands down, the BEST phone I've ever had. Excellent battery life, excellent responsiveness, great connectivity, and much to my amazement: the BEST reception and call clarity I've ever experienced on a smart phone. (I'm the only one in our downtown MPLS building who can send and receive calls anywhere on the campus, and never loose my 4G data connection).
I've been shocked at the excellent support from Nokia app-wise, and firmware-wise, and am very happy for the WP community to benefit from further integration of Nokia apps for non-Nokia phones. This phone, which I use first and foremost as a mobile phone (this part just HAS to be rock-solid for me), for all my e-mail all day long, for my browsing, gaming / entertainment, news and feed reading, and music play back is perfect for me as-is. The WP 7.8 update is just extras I didn't even expect.
No regrets. None. Nil. Not even close. I've purchased too many phones, computers, tablets, and other odd-n-ends to expect today's buy to still be tomorrow's top device. It NEVER works that way. 1 month later, the next device is just around the corner. 2 months later, another OS has better devices and features. 6 months later (or less) a new device is on my network for WP with new features I can't get on my current device. I had no reason to expect this to be my last phone purchase :silly:
Bigger screen support, NFC, multi-core... duh. I mean DUH if you thought this device would stand up to next-gen hardware. If you have a Nokia 900 and are upset it isn't the model being released in 6 months then you've got a significant learning curve ahead of you for all the other things in your life that you'll be buying. No way around it - it doesn't feel good, but it's an obvious truth. To expect otherwise is to believe in a spaghetti monster living on the other side of the moon. Sorry, but it's true.
When I do upgrade my phone, it'll be Nokia and it'll be W8P (still a better name, even at the end of this post :angel and it'll be cutting edge when it's that device's turn to get the latest and greatest.
Sorry for the length of my post, but the negativity around here is just plain silly and not worth the effort (for those experiencing it, and those of us who have to sift through it to get to actual facts).
Edit: I should have added that I am VERY happy with the updates I will get for my existing hardware, and also that I'm VERY happy that W8P will not support existing hardware. My reasons are that the hardware is improving at an extraordinary rate, and when I do get my next device I'll have one that has an OS that isn't bogged down with backwards compatibility issues - something that plagued windows for so many years until the hardware leveled out.

So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.

jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, only the un-happy are noisy. Most people I actually know and talk too either couldn't care less, or are perfectly fine with it. Nokia will be fine. MS will be fine. WP8, Win8, and XBox will be just fine. There are ALWAYS people who scream dooms-day, but it never comes. Everything is always just fine

jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally wrong uninformed.....

I also am happy with my lumia 900 and also it was a decision I made whether to wait for WP8 or not.. ( I was actually waiting for the Lumia 900 as it had a front facing camera against the lumia 800).
There is always new tech coming out every 3 months a so and you either wait or get what is on offer that suits your need.
Regarding the WP8 update I am not so much bothered ( only regret is the nokia pureview camera 808).
I come from a Samsung galaxy S2 and the for me the SGS2 has been the best android device by far and the SGS3 didn't appeal to me at all, besides people were always complaing How most apps were not optimised to use the DUAL CORE of the SGS2.
Similiar things will happen when WP8 comes around there will be fewer apps and most current DEVS will keep developing for WP7 as they have just about got hang of it. So it will be atleast another year or so when we see Quality apps both for WP8 and Windows 8 which is just starting out as well, by which time I will be ready to purchace my Second Gen WP8 Just like my Second Gen lumia 900.
NFC is also not very popular in the UK at present and probably you will get NFC through sim cards or as stickers.
Till Next year my Lumia 900 rocks.. and then I will have decided about my next phone

sakenfenc said:
Totally wrong uninformed.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....

jr97ai said:
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...

sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP, go figure. You don't have to tell people to go buy an iPhone. In fact, MS WANTS people to state "go buy a WP." Will anyone say this? Hell no, not even you.
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back. I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer. Feature wise? No, too obvious. Fluidity? No because phones nowadays are supercharged, 2-3 seconds faster doesn't mean crap to fill up the gap of features. Update path? complete BS.
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.

Why are ppl so much bothered about updates?
I bought my Lumia 900 simply because it looks awsome and is more reliable than any other smarthphone i have used. Surely it has bad points too but i dont give a damn.
I use my Lumia 900 to its last breath everyday, i am heave tweeter, emailing surfig gaming, calling etc. WP7 is perfect as it is, it only needs some minor touches.
Same goes for Android and IOS (in their childhood days, these OSes were not complete either, Infact IOS is still struggling with main features.
I was too keen on recieveing updates on my older phones but each time i updated problems started to come along. As soon as my Xperia X10 got updated to 2.3 i sold it after a week. My galaxy s2 when got updated to ICS i sold it after 3 days due to amount of FC and other lags. My Iphone 3gs i sold it after one week when got updated to IOS 4
Pls guys grow up.

yaiba60 said:
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got some facts or figures to back that up?
yaiba60 said:
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Key word: Few. Well, 2 key words then: noisy.
I've seen this happen so many times before: Video games, TV shows, politics, religion... none of it ever comes true. A few leave in a huff, noisily disgruntled, and the rest continue on without any problems.
There's no dooms day, there's no market share problem, there's no negative impact what so ever with sales. Drag my post up in 6 months and prove me wrong about that, but I sincerely doubt that it will end up any other way.
yaiba60 said:
I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the only truth you've stated. It's your choice, always has been, always will be. And there's nothing wrong with your position, as it fits you at this time.
yaiba60 said:
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't really feel like a sheep - heck, I posted the opposite of the current flavor of the week as far as opinions. And what I stated was my choice, always has been, always will be.

sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wy dont you at least post something pertinant to the conversation? The forums are made for discussion and thats what we are doing. I respect peoples opinions here if they agree or disagree with me but yours are plain useless.
I dont have to go and buy another phone because I have issues with what is happening. I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
I didnt have another 400 plus dollars to drop on a wp 7 device so I took an android device from my provider. I liked it alot and it received both a Gingerbread update and ICS. But I wanted a Windows phone so I bought the Samsung Focus which I just replaced it with the Lumia.
What frustrates me is that people are putting words in our mouths here. I dont hear anyone who complained saying they hate the Lumia or that they expect to get an update with features that apply to hardware that doesnt exist.
They just want an upgrade path such as the one Microsoft is providing to those who buy a pc before Windows 8 is released.
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
In summary I will post my opinion and if you dont like it go read some static website with no discussion or coments.

What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:

yaiba60 said:
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
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*shrug* you posted on my thread - where I stated what I've done and where I'm at and what I plan to do, by complaining and taking things I said out of context and changing the meaning (i.e. noisy people), then attribute my post to being some kind of MS hype.
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
I'm sorry for your sense of loss, I sincerly hope you find peace (this is not sarcastic, I mean it - it's only a phone after all ).

I believe you are missing a few points here:
jr97ai said:
I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
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Would you really have preferred that the 6.5 device were upgraded to WP7? That would have held WP7 back on specs/features, with the exception of a few phones (HD2).
jr97ai said:
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
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Again, don't think for a moment that the Lumia 900 is out of the game. There are SO MANY of them out there now, that they will become the next HD2. DEVs are going to bring WP8 to the Lumia, mark my words. The device is too nice not to go there.
As for Microsoft not bringing it, I could care less. My Lumia is the best phone I've owned since I've been using wireless. And my first Mobile phone was a Motorola Bag Phone. Yes, the heavy shoulder strap phone that lasted about 3 hours and cost $200-$1500 per month to use. I've owned MANY phones over these years, and again, the Lumia 900 beats them ALL, hands down. If it was never upgraded to WP8, that's just fine! They did NOT say they were going to stop supporting it, they just said they were not going to port WP8 to it. There's a Big difference. You will still get updates, you will still get leading edge software, you will still get firmware updates. I don't see the problem.
When does a company decide when to stop supporting Full OS upgrades? It's a tough decision I'm sure, but it has to be made. If they offered OS upgrades forever, they would never make enough money to continue to develop. I don't want to see that happening.
My next phone will also be a Nokia. They are going to support WP better than any other OS, because they HAVE to in order to survive. They've already shown their support in a big way, and they've shown how they are going to continue to do so. Maybe it will not be WP8, but it will be the next best thing. A new Start Screen that most everyone has been anxious to get, and a host of other updates are to come. Just because they have not spelled it all out, does not mean it's not happening. They said all the NON-HARDWARE features would be brought to the Lumia. That could include All Sorts of Fantastic things. Some have already arrived (Camera Extras, Play-To), and I'm sure they will bring a lot more.
Before WP7, I also wanted the latest ROM or OS on my Windows Mobile phones, and to some extent, still do. I even ported and cooked ROMs to get there. But since using WP, I am not quite as anxious, because it really works quite well. That's mostly what I was trying to get out of Windows Mobile. Stable, Fast, Fun. WP Already has that!
My opinion, give Winkia/Nokidows a little time to prove where they are going to take us. Honestly, by the time WP8 comes around, I'll be itching for a new device anyways, so my Lumia 900 will replace my Focus as my Test Bed/Dev device...

Nobody talks about doomsday and whatnot, at least I never stated them. You got delusions about doomsday or is it haunting you
WP is small fry, idc about facts for this. If you love it, go research to back it up, don't tell me this and that. If you were successful, maybe MS would want you in its WP marketing team and pay you nicely. I never told you to agree with me. My style is "take it or leave it." My writing is not to convince, but to explain. I don't assume you this and that (heck I never even made a statement how you felt about your phone). However, it looks like you do assume a lot of thing about me. Why do you care? :laugh:
P/S: all my three Lumia 900 have been craigslisted successfully, I feel relieved
eknutson said:
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
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I too am very happy with my Lumia 900. Coming from a Samsung Captivate, I can't complain. The difference is just night and day. It didn't bother me knowing the phone's inability for a WP8 update. When those devices come out, buy'em. Problem solved. When WP9 devices come out, buy'em! Problem solved..and so on.
The world is fortunate to have a vast variety of technological options. Options which never ceases to evolve. No need to whine when your brand new toy becomes obsolete tomorrow. Technology is about evolution.
Like what eknutson said, it's just a phone after all.

guys this thread is about some one likes the Lumia 900 and I love my Lumia 900 tooo.... so keep it to it...
all the people are talking about is that wp 7.8 will not be as good as the WP8..... come on no one knows what will be in WP7.8 and WP8???? this is stupidity to argue about things MS do not want to tell people right now...
and second of all MS and Nokia are not stupid that they will screw up users...
last but not least if your phone do not have NFC and high res screen then MS do not think the OS should be WP8, i am fine with it...
and if i dont get the WP8 or WP7.8 my phone still works graet i am very happy...

Microsoft officially announced what will be in 7.8: new home screen, 100,000 apps and counting, and Nokia Lumia exclusive apps.

I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request

Dark_Ansem said:
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
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Using "max luminosity", your battery will die much quicker. You will probably want to experiment with different settings to get a good look, and battery life. I used Automatic, and was happy most of the time.
Also, you can actually cut your SIM card using a knife or scissors to make it fit your phone. I've done it a few times. At least until you can get to the store and get a new one. Just look at photos on the internet to get an idea where to cut it, Pretty close, and it will work. Also, make sure it fits the sim tray well, so it does not hang up on the sim slot.