Develop Bugs

Systemless root and systemless Xposed - Some questions

Hello,
at the moment I have a HTC 10 with normal root and xposed.
But I would like to have the option of installing OTA updates and I have some question:
- Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?
- Can I still flash a custom kernel and other mods in TWRP?
- What do I need for systemless root and systemless xposed?
- Are there any disadvantages?
And it would be awesome if someone could give me a full guide how to do this.
I would start with flashing a RUU, but what should I do after that?
Thanks in advance!

I can't say anything about systemless Xposed, but I've been wondering about it. Main thing I want to know is if it will play nice with Android Pay. Right now, I'd rather have Android Pay than Xposed, but I'd like both.
As for systemless root, yes, you can still flash custom kernels thru TWRP. I'm running @flar2's Elemental X and have run them both successfully on LeeDroid and Venom. Some mods may have to have some special prep if they're not baked into a rom, such as AdAway, to work properly with systemless root.
The disadvantages to systemless root, to this point have been you can't run Xposed on it (not sure how it works now), and root is broken on some poorly coded apps, like ES File Explorer.
The easiest way to install systemless root now is just to install a rom. Put TWRP on and pick a rom. Both LeeDroid and Viper have options for systemless root. You're up and working out of the box with nothing special to do.

Superguy said:
I can't say anything about systemless Xposed, but I've been wondering about it. Main thing I want to know is if it will play nice with Android Pay. Right now, I'd rather have Android Pay than Xposed, but I'd like both.
As for systemless root, yes, you can still flash custom kernels thru TWRP. I'm running @flar2's Elemental X and have run them both successfully on LeeDroid and Venom. Some mods may have to have some special prep if they're not baked into a rom, such as AdAway, to work properly with systemless root.
The disadvantages to systemless root, to this point have been you can't run Xposed on it (not sure how it works now), and root is broken on some poorly coded apps, like ES File Explorer.
The easiest way to install systemless root now is just to install a rom. Put TWRP on and pick a rom. Both LeeDroid and Viper have options for systemless root. You're up and working out of the box with nothing special to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/unofficial-systemless-xposed-t3388268
That's the reason why I'm asking - OTA is working, but Android Pay not (for me it doesn't matter. I never used android pay).
But I want to stay on Stock ROM, no Custom ROMs. I just want the ability to download and install OTA updates.
Edit: Well, I see that I still need stock recovery for OTA updates. It doesn't make sense to install systemless root, because I have stock system-image backup and stock recovery.
Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?

Maik268 said:
Have a look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/unofficial-systemless-xposed-t3388268
That's the reason why I'm asking - OTA is working, but Android Pay not (for me it doesn't matter. I never used android pay).
But I want to stay on Stock ROM, no Custom ROMs. I just want the ability to download and install OTA updates.
Edit: Well, I see that I still need stock recovery for OTA updates. It doesn't make sense to install systemless root, because I have stock system-image backup and stock recovery.
Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in the same position, just got the phone and want to install systemless root, systemless xposed and systemless Adaway... Mainly the reason I want this is because I dont want to s-off (you cant flash newer firmwares that come with updates) or I dont want to restore system and performing update after that... I just want stock rom with elementalx and those xposed goodies I want it so that when I get a notification about update, I dont need to backup anything, flash anything, just install update regularly like all normal people BUT still after update have root and xposed
I think its possible, but I have to do a little research before I get on with it.. Now first step is unlock bootloader

CrazyCypher said:
I am in the same position, just got the phone and want to install systemless root, systemless xposed and systemless Adaway... Mainly the reason I want this is because I dont want to s-off (you cant flash newer firmwares that come with updates) or I dont want to restore system and performing update after that... I just want stock rom with elementalx and those xposed goodies I want it so that when I get a notification about update, I dont need to backup anything, flash anything, just install update regularly like all normal people BUT still after update have root and xposed
I think its possible, but I have to do a little research before I get on with it.. Now first step is unlock bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with systemless root you have to restore stock recovery to use OTA updates
Well, I have a look at this next weekend when I have some more time.
Or I just try a custom ROM... :laugh:

Maik268 said:
Even with systemless root you have to restore stock recovery to use OTA updates
Well, I have a look at this next weekend when I have some more time.
Or I just try a custom ROM... :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but the amazing thing is that after you flash everything you want, you can immediately restore stock recovery and have stock recovery all the time after you have everything systemless
Then if you want to flash something you flash TWRP.. otherwise you just leave re-flashed stock recovery

CrazyCypher said:
Yes but the amazing thing is that after you flash everything you want, you can immediately restore stock recovery and have stock recovery all the time after you have everything systemless
Then if you want to flash something you flash TWRP.. otherwise you just leave re-flashed stock recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, I will receive my HTC 10 on Friday, and I all I want is to root and install Xposed Framework (A kernel would be nice too, but it's not a must) but I do want to receive OTA's and not having to flash the Rom each time that I want to update...
So if I root my phone Systemless, will I be able to Install Xposed (and a kernel) so when I receive an OTA, I just flash the stock kernel and install the update, then flash twrp again, without losing root or my data?
If so, how do I systemless root?
Thanks! :good:

Is it possible to root the OP3 without a custom recovery?

I don't really need a custom recovery (I don't know of any features custom recovery will give me I really need?) and for now I'm fine running stock roms (I always give stock a few weeks just as a baseline before I start custom roms) but I was wondering, how would one go about rooting the OP3 without installing a custom recovery?
Is it possible / easily doable? Or am I better off just to flash some custom recovery and ditch the stock one?
The reason I don't want to go away from stock just yet is I know oneplus is still updating the rom and custom recoveries, historically, have made OTA updates problematic.

Rooting will also mess up Ota too, but if u install a custom recovery, now that we have stock recovery it will be very easy to revert back for OTAs, there should be a way to root without a custom recovery but I am not sure how though, but with how oneplus makes it so easy to unlock bootloader and flash customers stuff there is really no need to stay stock

You can simply connect your OP3 to a PC and boot to TWRP without flashing it:
fastboot boot twrp.img
Then do a backup with twrp before rooting. I use the above method with systemless root
and also don't really need a custom recovery at this point. This might change once CM13 matures on the OP3...
OTAs might work this way in the future. If they don't, restore your system + boot (kernel) partition
and try the OTA again.
edit: implying your bootloader is already unlocked

pileot said:
I don't really need a custom recovery (I don't know of any features custom recovery will give me I really need?) and for now I'm fine running stock roms (I always give stock a few weeks just as a baseline before I start custom roms) but I was wondering, how would one go about rooting the OP3 without installing a custom recovery?
Is it possible / easily doable? Or am I better off just to flash some custom recovery and ditch the stock one?
The reason I don't want to go away from stock just yet is I know oneplus is still updating the rom and custom recoveries, historically, have made OTA updates problematic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, you'd have to have TWRP to get root.
I don't think getting it rooted will mess up the OTA updates, other users sprovide flashable zips for the OTA anyway.. so you can still flash the zips manually with TWRP to keep you updated.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using XDA-Developers mobile app

To get root yes, you would need TWRP to flash to certain partitions but to keep root no. Your phone will operate just fine with root and stock recovery. Check what the user a few posts above mine said about temporary flashing TWRP to achieve your short term goals

AcmE85 said:
You can simply connect your OP3 to a PC and boot to TWRP without flashing it:
fastboot boot twrp.img
Then do a backup with twrp before rooting. I use the above method with systemless root
and also don't really need a custom recovery at this point. This might change once CM13 matures on the OP3...
OTAs might work this way in the future. If they don't, restore your system + boot (kernel) partition
and try the OTA again.
edit: implying your bootloader is already unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So have you actually done this by temporary booting twrp and then using the systemless root and still have stock recovery? Also how do I root systemless? Really wanna know because wanna keep stock recovery and have root

TheSvensson said:
So have you actually done this by temporary booting twrp and then using the systemless root and still have stock recovery? Also how do I root systemless? Really wanna know because wanna keep stock recovery and have root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I have the stock recovery and it is rooted.
The recovery partition has nothing to do with all the other partitions except that it can read and write them.
This is the zip I flashed to get systemless root:
https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24591000424939898
Some users reported that some Root-apps are not supported this way.
I am using Titanium Backup, Adaway, Trimmer and Root Explorer without issues.
Keep in mind that I did not get any OTA so far since running this setup, so I am not sure if official OTAs will or will not work.
All I did was manually flash OxygenOS 3.1.3 in TWRP (not flashed but booted) and reflash the root package afterwards.

AcmE85 said:
You can simply connect your OP3 to a PC and boot to TWRP without flashing it:
fastboot boot twrp.img
Then do a backup with twrp before rooting. I use the above method with systemless root
and also don't really need a custom recovery at this point. This might change once CM13 matures on the OP3...
OTAs might work this way in the future. If they don't, restore your system + boot (kernel) partition
and try the OTA again.
edit: implying your bootloader is already unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an unlocked bootloader and tried this on my PC:
C:\adb>fastboot boot twrp.img
downloading 'boot.img'...
OKAY [ 0.709s]
booting...
OKAY [ 0.373s]
finished. total time: 1.092s
Nothing happens, bootloader start screen stays frozen. Until I hold down the power button. Might you know why?

AcmE85 said:
You can simply connect your OP3 to a PC and boot to TWRP without flashing it:
fastboot boot twrp.img
Then do a backup with twrp before rooting. I use the above method with systemless root
and also don't really need a custom recovery at this point. This might change once CM13 matures on the OP3...
OTAs might work this way in the future. If they don't, restore your system + boot (kernel) partition
and try the OTA again.
edit: implying your bootloader is already unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried to boot into twrp recovery with above command, but the phone seems to be stuck in the bootloader and not responding. Any ideas?
edit: comment above describes exact same behaviour, sorry for double post

Sorry, don't know. Booting takes a couple seconds on my device though.
I am using this recovery img: http://www6.zippyshare.com/v/iK6tCE6D/file.html
Got it from XDA, but unfortunately don't know anymore who build it.

AcmE85 said:
Sorry, don't know. Booting takes a couple seconds on my device though.
I am using this recovery img: http://www6.zippyshare.com/v/iK6tCE6D/file.html
Got it from XDA, but unfortunately don't know anymore who build it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, that twrp img worked for me. The one I was using didnt allow me to boot to it.

AcmE85 said:
Keep in mind that I did not get any OTA so far since running this setup, so I am not sure if official OTAs will or will not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any chance you know if you get OTA by now?
I really like the Op3 and dont wont to change anything except i would like to habe root access. Your method seems to be the best way to achieve that.

hahamuntz said:
Any chance you know if you get OTA by now?
I really like the Op3 and dont wont to change anything except i would like to habe root access. Your method seems to be the best way to achieve that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The updater will recognize root on your device and download the full 1.3 gb Rom file.
But after updating root will be gone, so you will have to reflash root after each ota.

AcmE85 said:
The updater will recognize root on your device and download the full 1.3 gb Rom file.
But after updating root will be gone, so you will have to reflash root after each ota.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the quick answer
Just to make sure, if I root using this method nothing will change, except I have root access, my bootloader is unlocked and the updates will be big, but I can update the normal way, I will just lose the root access? Is that correct or am I missing something?

hahamuntz said:
Thanks for the quick answer
Just to make sure, if I root using this method nothing will change, except I have root access, my bootloader is unlocked and the updates will be big, but I can update the normal way, I will just lose the root access? Is that correct or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One more thing:
If you have TWRP, automatically installing the big OTA will remove it and go back to the stock recovery.
I always manually move the downloaded ota from android/data/com.oneplus.ota/files/.OnePlusOta
to my download folder, boot into TWRP and flash it + SuperSU on my own.

AcmE85 said:
One more thing:
If you have TWRP, automatically installing the big OTA will remove it and go back to the stock recovery.
I always manually move the downloaded ota from android/data/com.oneplus.ota/files/.OnePlusOta
to my download folder, boot into TWRP and flash it + SuperSU on my own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you have TWRP installed? I thought you won't get OTAs if you have a custom recovery? So i could just flash TWRP and root and still get OTAs?

hahamuntz said:
So you have TWRP installed? I thought you won't get OTAs if you have a custom recovery? So i could just flash TWRP and root and still get OTAs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, OTAs will come and because of Root you will get the full OTA regardless, which does not cause any issues with TWRP.
I tried my previous method and the regular OTA would fail because of root which changes the kernel or the system partition.
OnePlus reacted to this and introduced the full rom OTAs at some point.
So with root on my device this is how I do OTAs now:
- get the OTA notification for the full rom
- download but don't install
- move the downloaded zip from android/data/com.oneplus.ota/files/.OnePlusOta to my download folder
- manually boot into twrp and flash full rom zip + SuperSU

AcmE85 said:
Yes, OTAs will come and because of Root you will get the full OTA regardless which does not cause any issues with TWRP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, thanks so much for your help

Root HTC10 Nougat 2.41.401.03

Hi guys,
I'm looking for a way to root my HTC10 Nougat 2.41.401.03. Could you give me some ideas what i'm gonna lose after root, notices and the link, please?
Thank you very much

unlock the bootloader using HTC Dev, flash the latest version of TWRP and then flash either SuperSU or Magisk (Magisk is a personal preference).
Just be wary that flashing a custom recovery and flashing either one of those will likely break the phones ability to update OTA.

silegeek said:
unlock the bootloader using HTC Dev, flash the latest version of TWRP and then flash either SuperSU or Magisk (Magisk is a personal preference).
Just be wary that flashing a custom recovery and flashing either one of those will likely break the phones ability to update OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you , but would you mind send me the link of latest TWRP and Supersu, please ?

dvhuy95 said:
Thank you , but would you mind send me the link of latest TWRP and Supersu, please ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flashable SuperSu
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/supersu/download/zip/SuperSU-v2.79-201612051815.zip
TWRP
https://eu.dl.twrp.me/pme/twrp-3.1.0-1-pme.img.html
Magisk
https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk-v7-universal-systemless-t3473445
I think Magisk Root is better to have system less root, Android pay and snapchat works perfect, after flashing in magisk settings you have to turn on "magisk hide" and choose applications (android pay or snapchat and much more).

Hi, how can I install TWRP and then Magisk ?

Flash stock over rooted to get OTA

I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.

Technically you'll be updating your device by flashing the newest stock anyway. No need for OTAs. You can then re-root.

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, sounds doable

ABotelho23 said:
Technically you'll be updating your device by flashing the newest stock anyway. No need for OTAs. You can then re-root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not what i meant. Let's say I'm on rooted OB18. But i want to update it to OB19. all i have is OB18 stock firmware. So, can i flash OB18 over rooted OB18 and then update it to OB19 (ota). Then re-root.
The reason I'm asking this is i have a very limited data internet connection. So i can save GBs if this is doable.

XDRdaniel said:
Yes, sounds doable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Well.. I'm gonna try this out myself. Thanks! :highfive:

GTRanushka said:
Not what i meant. Let's say I'm on rooted OB18. But i want to update it to OB19. all i have is OB18 stock firmware. So, can i flash OB18 over rooted OB18 and then update it to OB19 (ota). Then re-root.
The reason I'm asking this is i have a very limited data internet connection. So i can save GBs if this is doable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plan to keep a copy of OB18 around? If so, then yea absolutely it should work. Root will either modify your system or your kernel depending on the method, which both get overwritten if you flash stock.
Issue you'll probably end up having in the future though is that if you always use OB18, when it comes time to install OB20, you'll be downgrading without a wipe, which I don't think is a great idea.

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you can't.
Because OTA will fail for "partition mismatching": the systemless root alters only but anyhow the /boot partition.
You must update with FOTA (Full OTAs), doesn't matter you're using stock or TWRP recovery.
The OxygenOS built-in updater should detects your system as modified and download only FOTAs.

Simone98RC said:
No you can't.
Because OTA will fail for "partition mismatching": the systemless root alters only but anyhow the /boot partition.
You must update with FOTA (Full OTAs), doesn't matter you're using stock or TWRP recovery.
The OxygenOS built-in updater should detects your system as modified and download only FOTAs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's say he has open beta 18, rooted and twrp installed, if he flashes ob18 again over it, this will get rid both of the root and twrp, resulting in an untouched system, therefore, ota after this will be possible. He can then flash back twrp and root the device

XDRdaniel said:
Let's say he has open beta 18, rooted and twrp installed, if he flashes ob18 again over it, this will get rid both of the root and twrp, resulting in an untouched system, therefore, ota after this will be possible. He can then flash back twrp and root the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.

Simone98RC said:
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be weird because I always had to flash magisk after a ota update..

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to flash OTAS has to have stock rom but also recovery stock and bootloader blocked but not installed the OTAS otherwise it tells you that you have something modified and you have to download the complete rom. (That does not suit you)

ajnexus5 said:
In order to flash OTAS has to have stock rom but also recovery stock and bootloader blocked but not installed the OTAS otherwise it tells you that you have something modified and you have to download the complete rom. (That does not suit you)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need a locked bootloader for OTA just have to flash stock full ROM zip and stock recovery then you're good to go

Simone98RC said:
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why i try to unroot and do OTAs is the much less download size compared to FOTAs.

Renosh said:
You don't need a locked bootloader for OTA just have to flash stock full ROM zip and stock recovery then you're good to go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it with the bootloader open and I did not think that something is not right that it has to download complete the rom.:

Magisk v14 and OTA updates

Hey, guys, I wanted to ask if someone tried OTA updates working with the new method of rooting released with magisk 14- a rooting method in which we do not need root or custom recovery beforehand, we just need to provide stock boot image dump to the magisk manager. This method will do us good because if OTA's still work after root we can be rooted on the stock roms without having to download full OTA's when a new update arrives. If someone can confirm working OTA's on the OOS open beta with this root method, it would be really helpful. Thank you!

As long as you take a backup of system and keep TWRP installed so you have a backup to revert to it should be fine. The risk of issues is just too high unless you don't give a **** about your personal data.

Puddi_Puddin said:
As long as you take a backup of system and keep TWRP installed so you have a backup to revert to it should be fine. The risk of issues is just too high unless you don't give a **** about your personal data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, I know how to work with TWRP. Your comment does not answer the question.

blaze95rs said:
Bro, I know how to work with TWRP. Your comment does not answer the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well think of it about this. Magisk is just one big hack on the system partition. An OTA changes files on the system partition aswell. What if the OTA changes files that Magisk needs?
1. Your phone will go into a bootloop.
2. You might end up bricking it.
3. You just have to reflash Magisk.
4. Your phone becomes buggy as hell.
Thats why we also recommend to install the full zips when flashing roms and kernels that modify system because of possible conflicts.

Puddi_Puddin said:
Well think of it about this. Magisk is just one big hack on the system partition. An OTA changes files on the system partition aswell. What if the OTA changes files that Magisk needs?
1. Your phone will go into a bootloop.
2. You might end up bricking it.
3. You just have to reflash Magisk.
4. Your phone becomes buggy as hell.
Thats why we also recommend to install the full zips when flashing roms and kernels that modify system because of possible conflicts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously I would uninstall magisk and then install ota and reinstall magisk. Magisk is systemless so I think there shouldn't be any problem.

blaze95rs said:
Obviously I would uninstall magisk and then install ota and reinstall magisk. Magisk is systemless so I think there shouldn't be any problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See it for yourself! Its something most people do not recommend.

Puddi_Puddin said:
See it for yourself! Its something most people do not recommend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have missed the whole point of the post. This is a NEW method. Many people have not tried this method of root. So please, if you have any valuable information then only share. Do not litter. There should be logic to your answer and not general acceptance. Saying that many people do this or do that is not a very solid answer.

blaze95rs said:
You have missed the whole point of the post. This is a NEW method. Many people have not tried this method of root. So please, if you have any valuable information then only share. Do not litter. There should be logic to your answer and not general acceptance. Saying that many people do this or do that is not a very solid answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't matter. I get that it can be installed without a custom recovery. But that doesn't mean it won't conflict with possible ota's. Again, see it for yourself. Most people including me do rather play it the safe way.

I have recently updated to the lateset Oxygen OS Beta i had Magisk installed, i use Sparks Latest twrp version, with this you can install OTA updates. I dit not unlinstalled Magisk first, you do need the full rom file, but for me when i wanted to install the OTA, it found i had rooted and autmatacly downloaded the full rom. After you installed the update you can install the latest version of Magisk.