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http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...phone-7-developers-developers-developers/6867
Windcape said:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...phone-7-developers-developers-developers/6867
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the quoted materia:
ZDNet said:
Microsoft: Bring on the Windows Phone 7 developers, developers developers
On July 19, Microsoft began shipping out thousands of Windows Phone 7 (WP7) test units from LG and Samsung — running a near-final Technical Preview build of its new mobile operating system — to developers all over the world.
It’s crunch time for the Softies. They have developed a new phone platform from scratch that looks and feels different from what’s available from Apple, Android backers and RIM. They’ve built it, but will developers come? Microsoft is counting on its developer tools, its developer outreach programs and developer guarantees (in the form of payments if WP7 apps don’t sell as well as expected) to generate quantity and quality WP7 apps.
It’s no coincidence, as Engadget notes, that the packaging for the WP7 test units says “developers, developers, developers” on the box. (Sorry, there’s no Monkey Boy toy inside.) WP7 phone hardware and data plans are going to be key to determining how well WP7 will do versus its competition when those phones begin shipping in October in Europe and November in the U.S. But the number and kinds of apps that developers build are going to be make-or-break, as well.
There’s an evangelism team that’s been working for months to get developers on board with WP7. I’ve been talking to a number of them for the past few weeks so as to understand their big-picture goals and plans to try to win developers hearts and minds in a world where Windows Mobile is falling out of favor and iOS and Android are grabbing the attention and share.
Charlie Kindel, a 20-year Microsoft veteran who runs the Windows Phone Developer Experience, is one of the main forces behind Microsoft’s mobile developer outreach. After hearing about Microsoft’s renewed focus on mobile (and some of the big names named to run the development side of the project), Kindel joined the team in February 2009.
“Windows Phone is not an end game. It’s more of a means,” said Kindel. “Devs don’t think about apps being just client code any more. Over the past ten years, it has become the case that the core resides in the cloud, and rich clients ‘light it up’ for the user. That means it’s not so much about porting the same apps to different screens, it’s more about creating application components that cross all three screens. As your experience changes, what should an app look like and how do you eanble that? I want to make WP7 one of the screens that is supported.”
(The “cloud,” in this case, can mean Microsoft cloud services like Azure; cloud services someone else has built like Twitter; or services intrinsic to WP7, like notification, location, Xbox Live, etc., Kindel explained.)
I asked Kindel what has surprised him — and what he thinks might surprise others — about WP7. He talked about speaking to 7,000 mobile developers during a recent European tour. Relatively few had ever used Microsoft developer tools. (In one meeting, only about 10 percent had used Microsoft tools of any kind, he said.) When Microsoft showed them Visual Studio and Windows Phone development tools, “the reaction was one of disbelief,” he said, because “our tools were so much better.”
“Developers want to use the tools they already know, but at the same time, they want to know someone has thought holistically about the end-to-end process,” Kindel said. “Even though we are investing in all of these (development) areas, you don’t have to use all of our stuff.”
Microsoft’s message to developers considering WP7 is to use Silverlight or the XNA Framework to write applications and games for the forthcoming phones. And company officials are touting the transparency of the app approval process, as well as the fact that only Microsoft-certified applications will be available via the Windows Phone Marketplace as positives for developers and users.
No matter how good Microsoft’s developer story sounds, Kindel knows that it’s going to be tough to convince some developers there’s enough financial opportunity to make the development of a WP7 app worthwhile.
“The installed market is not very big, so we have to show them how much we’re investing to create a phenomenal user experience. We have to show marketing and engineering seriousness,” he said.
Microsoft hasn’t made any promises as to how many WP7 phone apps there will be out of the gate, or provided many names of developers already committed to the platform. Kindel said to expect a mix of big-name apps and brand-new ones.
“There are a type of apps users just want to exist — things like a service-enabled world clock or a level, for example,” he said. “Then there are apps no one has really thought about yet, with unique capabilities. We want there to be fantastic and beautiful examples of each.”
Who else is on Microsoft’s WP7 developer outreach team? It’s not just members of Microsoft’s Communications Business. I’ve got a “who’s who” post coming up, which includes WP7 developer team members from Microsoft’s Interactive Entertainment Business, Windows Live and the Developer Division.
In the meantime, any developers (or potential customers) have developer-focused questions for the WP7 team?
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source : http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Mic...D+to+Stay+Away+from+Android+/article21069.htm
"I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."
Nokia ruffled more than a few feathers when it announced that it would be shacking up with Microsoft when it comes to smartphone operating systems. Feeling the heat from smartphone operating systems like Apple's iOS and Google's Android, Nokia is winding down its efforts with MeeGo and Symbian in order to embrace the nascent Windows Phone 7 (WP7) operating system.
Now, a new report from BusinessWeek suggests that Nokia was offered a sweet deal to go with Microsoft’s WP7 operating system over the rival Android OS. BusinessWeek says that Nokia will receive roughly $1B as a part of a 5-year deal with Microsoft.
Microsoft, of course, will also profit handsomely from its $1B investment if Nokia's WP7 offerings take off in the marketplace. Unlike with Google's freely available Android OS, Nokia will pay Microsoft a royalty fee for each WP7 handset that it sells.
“This gives Microsoft scale and allows Nokia to rip out costs,” said Colin Gillis, an analyst at BGC Partners in New York, who recommends buying Microsoft shares. “Microsoft is getting the platform boost.”
Although $1B USD is a nice motivator to adopt WP7, Nokia's Stephen Elop claims that Nokia would have gotten lost in vast sea of me-too Android devices, and that the Microsoft partnership gives it a chance to shine. “A decision to go with Windows Phone creates a very different dynamic. Windows Phone is a challenger. It becomes a three-horse race,” said Elop according to Mobile Beat.
Nokia’s Symbian operating system has been under a constant assault from Android. Android overtook Symbian as the world’s best-selling smartphone operating system in Q4 2010 (33.3 million units versus 31 million units).
The thing they forget to mention is that the $1b payment also gets Microsoft access to Nokia's immense patent library.
Which in itself would be worth the $1b payment.
dgaust said:
The thing they forget to mention is that the $1b payment also gets Microsoft access to Nokia's immense patent library.
Which in itself would be worth the $1b payment.
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do you know where a pdf can be found ? at this point its all speculation... but man it would be in.teresting !
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
ohgood said:
do you know where a pdf can be found ? at this point its all speculation... but man it would be in.teresting !
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You're right, it is all speculation (based on two people leaking) but the same sources that state the $1b also say the patent portfolio is included.
Both companies have mentioned that things like OVI maps will be integrated into Bing services, so it's not far fetched to believe that assertation.
z33dev33l said:
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
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And what the hell is the WP7 ecosystem if not a hardware battle? If anything Nokia could have applied their own customizations to Android alà SE Xperia - but if done properly they could have had a killer hardware software combo. If anything the MS deal is like an easy way out. A huge cash influx and a guiding hand from MS. We'll see how much value add they bring to WP7, but for now the deal just looks like a giant marketing move for a fledgling platform.
Sent from my GT-I9000
radeon_x said:
And what the hell is the WP7 ecosystem if not a hardware battle? If anything Nokia could have applied their own customizations to Android alà SE Xperia - but if done properly they could have had a killer hardware software combo. If anything the MS deal is like an easy way out. A huge cash influx and a guiding hand from MS. We'll see how much value add they bring to WP7, but for now the deal just looks like a giant marketing move for a fledgling platform.
Sent from my GT-I9000
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Rather than hardware and apps selling an OS it's an OS selling an OS. Tel me, how well has Xperia done with their custom OS. Is it half as big as Samsung's unbelievably laggy touchwiz UI? Regardless of customization the Os is never it's own. Every intelligent person downloads a new launcher, even my mom figured that out and it took her 2 days to learn how the market worked. Two companies that were steadily falling downhill revamped themselves and joined forces, not to own the market but to get their piece of the pie.
oh please
z33dev33l said:
I love when the fact that the people who operate these tech blogs are android fanboys shines through. It had nothing to do with them buying them away from android. 1 billion dollars is fair towards R&D from the company that they partnered with. They stayed away from android because as it says, if they embraced the lag that is android then they would be just another OEM in the sea of android OEMs, nothing special about them. This way they're not caught in a hardware battle since that's the only thing that sales android phones anymore.
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let's try and keep it two notches above petty this not an android, wp7 or ios bashing thread.
id really like to see more leaks (if this one is true/real) and more detaols. a billion dollars and patent right to either companies portfolio is incredible.
on the vone hand, symbian is declared vdead... but good lord look at the patents... there has to be amazing tech ms and nokia could employ. wowzers !
ohgood said:
let's try and keep it two notches above petty this not an android, wp7 or ios bashing thread.
id really like to see more leaks (if this one is true/real) and more detaols. a billion dollars and patent right to either companies portfolio is incredible.
on the vone hand, symbian is declared vdead... but good lord look at the patents... there has to be amazing tech ms and nokia could employ. wowzers !
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Oh yeah, I have no doubt that both companies are going to come out hard. It's going to be amazing. I do apologize for my previous comment but that is the case with most tech blogs. Nokia had denied android long before Microsoft ever put themselves on the chopping block. I can't wait to see what comes of this partnership. I see a bright future for this infant OS.
When Elop stated the reasons why Nokia choosing Windows Phone it did seem like he was contradicting himself. But here is why it makes sense:
HTC is the king of Android, with Motorola coming in 2nd. I would argue HTC does seem to have an unfair advantage because of the close working relationship they have with Google since they developed quite a few Google branded and marketed phones, including the very first one - Google G1. I think because of this that is why they have the largest percentage of handsets on the latest firmware. If Nokia entered the Android space where would they be in the heirarchy?
Windows Phone is pretty wide open right now. They are trying to jump on the wagon before it leaves them at the station. The nay-sayers will say that is a dead wagon, but with Microsoft's money, Nokia's marketshare, and Windows Phone's potential it may very well work.
this has more to do with the allowed patents (assuming that part is real) than a phone. the patents could deal with windows8 (desktop) or current versions. keep in mind, companies don't normally toss a billion with a b around unless they are serious.
symbian does some pretty incredible stuff, and if ms were to absorb (we all are familiar with this) symbians stuffs, wow.
if anyone finds more relevant information, please do post it. remember, this is not a bash, nor a hardware thread. this is about the contract !
Yes, it doesn't have to be in the form of cash. At a previous company I worked at, MSFT invested $30 mil in the form of software and services. So some of that $1 bil/year could simply be software and services licenses to Nokia.
As for why Nokia chose WP7 -- IMO, Android is reaching a maturity level where Nokia will not be able to compete w/ other OEMs. Since WP7 is still very young, Nokia has a chance to still get in early and reap the potential for great reward. The market is saturated with Android phones, even if Nokia adds their customizations to differentiate themselves, there's still alot of competition in that space.
Michael.
^ how is that any different than the WP7 competition?
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
vetvito said:
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
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Not according to Nokia, part of the deal was that they could make changes to every part of the OS.
These changes would need to be rolled into the trunk, and made available back to MS (and the other OEMs), but they are allowed to do that.
The said they wouldn't initially as this would delay updates coming from MS. But I can see them working collaboratively with MS to make WP7 better. It doesn't make sense with other OEMs but leveraging Nokia's experience will be off benefit to MS in the long term.
vetvito said:
^ how is that any different than the WP7 competition?
Nokia is just another OEM isn't?
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How is that different? Well, AT&T has 7 Android phones and 3 WP7 phones. Verizon has 10 Android phones and no WP7 phones. Sprint has at least 8 Android phones and no WP7 phones. T-Mobile has at least 10 Android phones and 2 WP7 phone.
So which marketspace will offer a greater potential, one that is saturated with Android phones or one where there's only 5 WP7 offerings for the entire U.S.
Michael.
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
z33dev33l said:
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
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Well, you know what they say...fruit is better for us than pastries/dairy. (Mango vs. Ice Cream Sandwich/Eclair)
good for them, I don't think it's good for us
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
*wipes tear* i love you Microsoft! always have done and will be loyal forever
The only group to blame for this is Google, releasing something that completely infringes on a bunch of other peoples patents. While it may be a douchey move to do this to the very manufactures you're partnered with, I can't blame MS.
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
FiyaFleye said:
Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
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You are probably right
I'm kinda put off by some of those patents . I mean really .. you can patent that ?
Although they do own the patents so "Pay up Sucka's ."
This will not be good for user's in the end either way .
My .02
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
nicksti said:
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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That's my sentiments and what I've been about all along. Yet when I say Apple has the rights to receive compensation on their infringed patents, I'm an Apple fanboy. Then when I side with MS's side of the patent infringement, I'm a MS fanboy. The only time I'm not harassed badly for seeming like a fanboy is when I say something favorable about Google. If I say something favorable about any other company...even if the favored words are intermixed with multiple companies, I'm a fanboy. The friggin rationality of the web is beyond mind twisting. People will stomp and storm over the least little thing.
nicksti said:
If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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I agree with this. MS definitely has the money to go after Google itself if they wanted to, but going after OEM's could be a way to secure a footing for WP7 as it's up to them to push WP7. If OEM's don't support WP7, it's screwed. Also, going after Google would conflict with MS & it's anti-monopoly issues.
Kinda old. Its been a known fact that Microsoft makes more money from Android than WP7.
Sad, sick, but true. The patent system is ridiculous.
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
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I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
Google should have done their homework tbh, handing over these issues to the hardware manufacturers is pretty weak.
Not that I'm agreeing with these patents, some of them are very vaguely defined.
You guys really don't know how vague some of the patents are. Hell I can pick any software and find some copied code. Do some deeper investigation yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is, doesn't matter to me if its Google, Apple, or some unknown Guy down the street.
The patent system needs a major over haul. Make a new OS or program and make millions, and I guarantee you that you will be slapped with patent infringement. Its sick.
truffle1234 said:
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
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You do know oracle had to drop more than 90% of their case.
It isn't vague. When you patent something, you have to be thorough about how it all works. These "news" articles just give the "Title" to the patent. The full patent has this huge legal description of what exactly is patented. I know this because as a kid I was going through the patent process, till my lawyer found out what I was trying to patent already existed. BTW, as for try to make an OS. Well the problem is all OS's are basically the same, very similar UI's save (WP7). they all have some form of taskbar/start menu/window based applications. The whole point why Windows is called Windows. The point of inovation is to make something new, not copy what's there & try to make it different. That's basically borderline plagerism, granted that's to do with writing, but it's the same thing.
See this;
1) No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."
2) No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.
3) No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."
4) No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."
5) No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."
All of that us understandable but the patent system us royally ****ed up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/technology/27patent.html
http://www.macgasm.net/2009/12/30/the-patent-system-is-broken-and-nokia-vs-apple-continues/
There are patents that defy the laws of phsyics, patents that are beyond belief. ****s stupid. Its actually hurting innovation from the little guys.
The major gripe I have with windows Phone is how it's sold or as is the case mis-sold. If quarterly results are correct - circa 1.5m Windows Phones sold that is pretty diabolical when you consider just how good the platform is.
I showed my phone and its features to my sister and brother in law and they liked the way it worked - its fluidity and how they could easily email, use calendar web etc. It wasn't a hard sell.
So I went around to all the cell phone stores in my local shopping centre and all the major retailers - Vodafone, T-mobile, o2, Orange, Three, Carphone Warehouse, Phones 4 U all had one phone front and centre - no guesses it's the Iphone.
The salespeople were on the most totally inept and either tried to shift an Iphone or any Android device. Their knowledge of the Windows Phone was either non existant or plain falsifications. Ontop of that the one salesperson who did know about Windows Phone was saying all you are interested in is office integration which Android provides.
There is no clear message to the public of what windows phone is and what it can do. Also the same phone is not available on all networks unlike the iphone.
If MS and Nokia want to sell tens of millions of windows phones a quarter they are not going about it the right way. Spending hundreds of millions on an ad campaign will create an initial boost but it won't last.
The problem MS has is that it probably will not want to push one phone above another in their adverts which will then create more confusion. Nokia will push their phone and brand above the o/s - there will be this confusing message once again.
I feel that for Windows Phone to be a success MS needs to get into bed fully with Nokia and actually have a joint marketing campaign - yes this may put of Samsung, LG etc but with the volumes currently shipping it won't be such a great loss.
Essentially we need one windows phone to rule them all. One phone available on all the networks.
I think it's a very bad idea to undermine the other OEMs just to fully promote Nokia. It's not really their faults the phones didn't sell, the OS was lacking and Microsoft didn't promote it very hard.
The issue is more in the sort of ads you use. Like you've seen, people who see WP love it so the ads should show the OS in action similar to ads for the iPhone and Windows 7.
You can do a huge campaign for Nokia if you like but if it's just generic stuff and tease (Oooh, we have Xbox Live and Office you know) without actually showing the OS it will be pointless.
Currently, I think a majority of people are waiting on better hardware coupled with mango. I,myself, am waiting on the new Samsung offering before I make the switch from Android to WP7.
I like the look and feel of WP7 vs. Android. Having an Iphone and now Android, I'm tired of the similar UI that is shared between them. Different is good and as long as functionality and ease of use is there, I think you'll see more people migrating over by next year.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Gotta agree with noidd here, a lot of people are waiting for new hardware with Mango.
The whole one phone to rule them all is Apple's philosophy, and I'm sure that's one of the reasons why people started running to Android in the first place.
Hopefully we'll get a flagship phone like the galaxy s2 and people start noticing WP7 a little more.
As for the whole carrier mess, here in Norway and in pretty much entire Europe, u can get any phone on any carrier you like and I hope that kind of ridiculous carrier monopoly goes away sooner than later in especially the US.
Trust me, Nokia is a fools-even-know brand in China and when Nokia started selling WP7 phones in China, quickly billions of WPs wil be sold.
From the respective websites
O2 - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart
T-mobile - no Windows phones
Orange - HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, Samsung Omnia 7
Three - no windows phone
Vodafone - no windows phone
Each one of the above websites had a dedicated Iphone page and promoted Android.
The Iphone is promoted so much and hyped once people decide they want it they can get it on any of the 5 major nextworks in the uk.
Looking at 2 big phone retailers -
Carphone Warehouse - HTC HD7, HTC 7 Mozart, HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Orange -- HTC 7 Mozart, LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--Tmobile - LG Optimus 7, HTC 7 Pro
--o2 - HTC HD7
--Three - none
Phones4u -
Vodafone - HTC 7 Trophy
Yes again they promote the Iphone front and centre as if their life depends on it. From whhat I have gleaned they make less profit on the Iphone sales than on high end Android phones but as the Iphone has become something of a golden child network operators stock it more to show theire relevancy as an operator in the eyes of the doe eyed consumers.
I still maintain that until Windows has a one or two phones available on all networks it won't make any impact whatsoever.
At launch Vodafone were carrying the Trophy and the Optimus 7, Three were carrying the Omnia 7 and Optimus 7 and T-Mobile were carrying the Mozart and Omnia 7. Those carriers dropped the phones because they a) weren't selling well and b) were old handsets. They didn't sell well because they were poop. Overpriced poop.
Look at the handsets available, then look at the prices they launched at. Every single one was available in Android flavour, and for significantly less (and, in many cases the Android hardware was superior). The HD7 and Mozart were the same price as the Desire HD, yet the HD7 and Mozart had lower quality screens and cameras. The Trophy was a similar spec to the Desire, and the Omnia 7 to the Galaxy yet both were significantly more expensive than their Android counterparts. There were also significant build quality differences in some cases. In a nutshell, Windows Phone 7 handsets were a bit of a con at launch and people weren't stupid enough to fall for it. The manufacturers messed up.
Coincidentally, I just made an off-topic, throwaway remark about this issue in a post in another thread. I've had the same experience (in Canada) of having salespeople try to deflect me away from WP7 to either Android or iOS. When WP7 first became available where I am, the salesman that I purchased my phone from expressed surprise at how good WP7 was, having just returned from a convention in Toronto. That was November 11, 2010. Since that time, I've not heard one good thing about WP7 from any salesperson. Invariably, WP7 is played down and iOS and Android played up. The user experience (this is always vague, the implication being that somehow WP7, not being as pervasive as the two biggies, somehow falls short and that anyone running WP7 will be missing out) and quantity of apps in the app stores are the two most common reasons given. Extending this "theme", I've even had salespeople assure me that Windows 8 tablets, when they come out and which will extend the Metro concept, will be crap!
Point is, I wonder if Android OEMs and Apple are offering larger incentives on the sale of these devcies, either to the individual salesperson or to select retailers? This idea is prompted by having bought an LCD tv at Christmas. I wound up buying at a furniture store and the salesman *used* to work at Futureshop (large electronics store in Canada like Dixons in the UK or BestBuy in the US - indeed it is now owned by BestBuy). He told me that the salesforce was pressured to push Samsung because of a huge difference in the commission paid relative to competing products. Indeed, this was my experience as I shopped around: I was consistently directed toward Samsung.
I own and use Android and iOS devices and the original release of WP7 was very competitive in my opinion. Mango, which I have just started using, is even more competitive. I can't see why a salesperson knowledgeable about the device and its competition would steer potential customers away without external motivations? I'll be very interested to see what happens this fall, when Mango and second gen WP7 devices become available.
Apple provide sales incentives - nope. From conversations I have had with Vodafone in the UK and AT&T in the US they get very little from Apple - they sell the i-phone as its what people want and b) they hope to keep them on after their contract is up. Otherwise they make more money on the Android devices.
Boils down to this for operators
1) Must sell i-phone as it's what people want even though margins are crap.
2) Must sell Android as volumes are good, as are margins but we can also modify the o/s.
3) Wp7 is an efterthought as its not selling well and we can't modify the o/s. As to margins that would be anyones guess.
I blame this all on the Scary Butterfly lady...
Things should get better with Mango and some current hardware. The OS was really released too soon for the wrong reasons with an obnoxiously unimpressive hardware spec. As long as Microsoft follows up Mango with a great Ad campaign this should get right back on track. Microsoft tends to flounder with their initial release then they fire the morons that looked impressive on paper and get some real muscle in there. Just look at the launch of the Xbox brand if you need historical proof of this.
http://www.osnews.com/story/25480/Microsoft_To_Acquire_Nokia_s_Smartphone_Division_
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Microsoft To Acquire Nokia's Smartphone Division? posted by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Jan 2012 11:25 UTC This rumour is not new, nor is it particularly earth-shattering. However, with Windows Phone 7 failing to make a dent in the market place, and Nokia's Lumia 800 not making huge waves either, the rumour's been taken out of the shed again: Microsoft is supposedly acquiring Nokia's smartphone division later this year. Stephen Elop will resign from Nokia shortly afterwards.
This time around, the rumour's being rekindled by Eldar Murtazin, the Russian editor-in-chief of Mobile-Review.com. He has a pretty good track record regarding Nokia, and has often had very, very early access to device prototypes and other information. However, as always, a firm pile of salt should be readily available at all times when reading this.
"Steve Balmer, Andy Lees and Stephen Elop, Kai Ostamo will meet in Las Vegas to finalize agreement about Nokia smartphone unit," he tweeted. The deal is apparently so that Microsoft also gets a few manufacturing plants, and, of course, an extensive patent portfolio. The Nokia name is set to disappear from the Microsoft smartphones that would follow from this acquisition.
It would leave Nokia with its feature phone business, networking equipment, and an assortment of other activities. While many think this would mean the end of Nokia, I highly doubt it will be - the company is 140 years old, has survived multiple crises and product transitions (they started out as a paper company, after all). Nokia will survive, even without smartphones, but that doesn't make it any less tragic.
This deal certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. It's becoming ever more clear that all those naysayers were right, back when the Microsoft-Nokia deal was announced. Stephen Elop is a mole, with only one goal: to drive Nokia into the ground, so that Microsoft can swoop in and acquire the interesting parts for a relatively low price. The N9 demonstrated that Nokia did have an option besides the failing Windows Phone 7, and that the deal with Microsoft wasn't a necessity at all.
We'll have to see how it all pans out over the course of 2012, but this doesn't seem like a crazy prediction. Sad.
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Patent mongering ?
Company absorbtion ?
Apple-like hardware control ?
Discuss
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
It won't surprise me either.
My 2 years old Symbian nokia, can do at least everything my WP7 can do, + even much more things.
the only problema is the screen-res thats 320x240.
Nokia went from actually good OS with no future, to an actually bad OS, with a very doubt future.
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
z33dev33l said:
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
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If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
I started ignoring anything Eldar Murtazin says a long time ago
ohgood said:
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
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Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
The rumor may or may not be true (and it most likely is not), but public denials are not now, nor have they ever been, proof that an acquisition is not imminent. I have worked for numerous companies that have been acquired, and in every case, right up until the day the acquisition was officially announced, the companies that I worked for denied the "rumors". That is just standard business practice to avoid too much market volatility.
efjay said:
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
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yep the truth is still tied up somewhere... apple loves to flaunt 4 million sales in a weekend, android 500,000+ activations a day... and microsoft, balmer only says that sales were less than expected. not much to go on. :-(
you mentioned the update, her's the text:
Update: Nokia UK has given us the following comment:
“We’ve put these rumours to rest a long time ago. The focus for Nokia is on executing on our partnership around Windows Phone and growing the ecosystem, and each company has the tools they need to do so”
yes, that sounds like the normal corporate-speak for "we don't want insider trading or speculations hurting our stocks" as normal.
still waiting on official numbers, and apparently waiting a little longer for a possible aquisition.
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
hexcorev2 said:
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
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Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
slimshady322 said:
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
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posted before I did
the nokia venture is ultimately a bad idea especially if it is relegated to the dumb phone scene
vetvito said:
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
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Click to collapse
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
nokia showed an overall growth w/ symbian last year
isn't that extremely positive for a sinking ship
And it is still number one in terms of international handset maker even if samsung is closing in really fast
nicksti said:
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
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Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Saying all Nokia had to do is improve Symbian is kind of like saying all Microsoft needed to do to compete with the iPhone was to improve Windows Mobile
Anyway, it looks like the market and analysts are now expecting good things from Nokia. Hopefully they are right
technically speaking, winphone is a improvement of WM. Unless you're not thinking logically.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
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I did not selectively read. Because improving it oh so easy. The OS was flat not not attractive. Symbian Anna and Belle are improvements but its nowhere near Android.
Your product is crap. Just improve it.
Last numbers I saw Symbian was still the #1 OS in certain markets. That because Nokia puts Symbian on near everything. Have you owned any Symbian phones? I have. Remember Nokia's share used to be 40%. Last number I saw was in the 20s. Why? Smartphone explosion.
Symbian was sinking and taking Nokia with them. Fact.
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
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What about the expenses and overheads of the company? What about the business aspect of that decision? Nokia's problem was they had too many OSes.
Symbian S40, S60 5th edition, Symbian UIQ, S^3, Meego, Maemo. And a partridge in a pear tree.
But in a btw, since 'killing off" Symbian, they have released updates and new phones using Symbian. Maybe there is a place for Symbian like there is a place for Bada and Brew.
Vet, you obvious do not like Windows Phone. At all. But Symbian was a dead end. And Meego? Cmon. They are not getting to 50,000 apps in under a year with Meego. The only valid argument I can understand is Nokia should have ditched Symbian for Android.