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Hey guys,
Planning on getting an Xperia Z1 Compact to replace my aging but well loved Nexus 4. The immediate plan (post-purchase) is to install a custom ROM (probably Carbon) because I’m not sure how long I can last before the stock Sony UI starts getting on my nerves - and coming from an N4 I'm just to accustomed to vanilla android.
So, any potholes along that road that you guys know about and that I could/should avoid?
Are there any aspects of the phone that are compromised as a result of a running custom ROM and ditching Sony's..Specifically, is something taken out of the quality of the camera when I forego the Sony camera app and its image processing? I hope not. Of course, the Google Camera app won’t have the manual controls and other bells and whistles, but I don’t mind losing those.
Secondly, how is the battery life on a custom AOSP ROM compared to out of the box with the stock Sony ROM. Does losing/gaining the Sony optimizations (if any) make a difference?
Apart from that, I’m pretty pysched to be upgrading to the Z1C!
z1c rules
Send from my Z1C using tapatalk
JimKem said:
Hey guys,
Planning on getting an Xperia Z1 Compact to replace my aging but well loved Nexus 4. The immediate plan (post-purchase) is to install a custom ROM (probably Carbon) because I’m not sure how long I can last before the stock Sony UI starts getting on my nerves - and coming from an N4 I'm just to accustomed to vanilla android.
So, any potholes along that road that you guys know about and that I could/should avoid?
Are there any aspects of the phone that are compromised as a result of a running custom ROM and ditching Sony's..Specifically, is something taken out of the quality of the camera when I forego the Sony camera app and its image processing? I hope not. Of course, the Google Camera app won’t have the manual controls and other bells and whistles, but I don’t mind losing those.
Secondly, how is the battery life on a custom AOSP ROM compared to out of the box with the stock Sony ROM. Does losing/gaining the Sony optimizations (if any) make a difference?
Apart from that, I’m pretty pysched to be upgrading to the Z1C!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey..if you unlock bootloader to install custom rom first of all you need to make a backup for yor TA partion ...2 you won`t lose camera functioality or image processing .. like on his brother z1.. camera is the same but on custom roms the psihical buttonfrom right side won`t work if your phone is locked.
battery life is excelent on roms based on stock .. but on cm,aokp,slim etc... the battery it`s a lil bit lower/weaker..
sorry for my english, hope i helped you ..
I never went back to CM or roms based on it because encryption doesn't work, but everbody states that camera quality is worse with custom (CM based) roms, probably because the BIONZ processing (may it be a soft- or hardware feature) cannot be used. When I last tested CM two months ago, it definitely was worse.
Battery life doesn't really differ, some people say it does with one or the other software, but judging by the comments of a larger userbase it won't really make a difference on average unless certain features are enabled (like theft protection / remote wipe which always increases battery usage).
One thing that still doesn't seem to work is encryption (it works but disables all sensors, which makes it pretty much unusable), that and camera quality were the most important showstoppers for me. Audio quality also seems to be better on stock roms, especially when using RomAur with Viper mod.
But just try both before finally configuring the phone, switching is just a matter of minutes and at least it's a matter of personal preference. Thanks to Xposed, I don't miss any features with RomAur 9.1.
PS: you have unlock the bootloader if you want to use any CM based rom.
JimKem said:
Hey guys,
Planning on getting an Xperia Z1 Compact to replace my aging but well loved Nexus 4. The immediate plan (post-purchase) is to install a custom ROM (probably Carbon) because I’m not sure how long I can last before the stock Sony UI starts getting on my nerves - and coming from an N4 I'm just to accustomed to vanilla android.
So, any potholes along that road that you guys know about and that I could/should avoid?
Are there any aspects of the phone that are compromised as a result of a running custom ROM and ditching Sony's..Specifically, is something taken out of the quality of the camera when I forego the Sony camera app and its image processing? I hope not. Of course, the Google Camera app won’t have the manual controls and other bells and whistles, but I don’t mind losing those.
Secondly, how is the battery life on a custom AOSP ROM compared to out of the box with the stock Sony ROM. Does losing/gaining the Sony optimizations (if any) make a difference?
Apart from that, I’m pretty pysched to be upgrading to the Z1C!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as for the camera, it gets worse n you'll miss out on the ability to flash in 4k and slow motion, if you're interested
And battery life is in your hands n based on your usage, some people get better and some worse
Sent from my D5503 using XDA Free mobile app
If you want to buy a z1c, make sure that the bootloader is allowed to be unlocked !!! (dialer : *#*#7378423#*#* ).
This is the most important thing before anything you can do with your device. Otherwise (bootloader unlock : not allowed) you can't install any custom rom.
Download flashtool and flash the latest official firmware (u can find it here on xda). It's a .ftf file (look for the latest KitKat one, not JB !!!)
Now you go to unlock your device with flashtool, and flash a custom boot.img from latest cm11 rom or any other custom rom with fastboot method (see google).
Power Off (hold power button + vol.up together).
Power On and when you see pink led, hold vol. up untill you see the cwr !
Flash what you want (use a external sd-card to avoid any bad surprise in manipulation) !
:good:
marouane80 said:
Otherwise (bootloader unlock : not allowed) you can't install any custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not entirely true - If your bootloader can't be unlocked, you still have the option of using custom roms that are based on a stock kernel. It does limit your ROM choices, of course...
adryanodej said:
hey..if you unlock bootloader to install custom rom first of all you need to make a backup for yor TA partion ...2 you won`t lose camera functioality or image processing .. like on his brother z1.. camera is the same but on custom roms the psihical buttonfrom right side won`t work if your phone is locked.
battery life is excelent on roms based on stock .. but on cm,aokp,slim etc... the battery it`s a lil bit lower/weaker..
sorry for my english, hope i helped you ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backup TA is a must but in the recent version of 4.4.2(.759) and 4.4.4(.108), all stuffs like X-Reality, Bionz, Music Info will work on unlocked bootloader because Sony finally approved and made some changes in the rom.
I've tested the camera for few days before I unlocked it, that's pretty much no different before and after. I never use X-Reality and Music Info so I can't tell.
---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 AM ----------
Iruwen said:
I never went back to CM or roms based on it because encryption doesn't work, but everbody states that camera quality is worse with custom (CM based) roms, probably because the BIONZ processing (may it be a soft- or hardware feature) cannot be used. When I last tested CM two months ago, it definitely was worse.
Battery life doesn't really differ, some people say it does with one or the other software, but judging by the comments of a larger userbase it won't really make a difference on average unless certain features are enabled (like theft protection / remote wipe which always increases battery usage).
One thing that still doesn't seem to work is encryption (it works but disables all sensors, which makes it pretty much unusable), that and camera quality were the most important showstoppers for me. Audio quality also seems to be better on stock roms, especially when using RomAur with Viper mod.
But just try both before finally configuring the phone, switching is just a matter of minutes and at least it's a matter of personal preference. Thanks to Xposed, I don't miss any features with RomAur 9.1.
PS: you have unlock the bootloader if you want to use any CM based rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, only Nexus got perfect CM, Carbon or AOKP of 3rd party roms. Other phones of AOSP custom roms can be buggy and sometimes even worse than stock. In my opinion, stock based with optimized roms is always more recommended.
On some real large sales phone model, the AOSP custom roms can be great because there are many developers and users based.
Why do you want AOSP based ROM? It's boring as hell and you'll lose all the exclusive Xperia goodies. As suggested, just install modified stock ROM of Z1C. Usually other ROMs are not that stable especially AOSP or CAF ROMs whilst modified Stock are just stock but better thus stable.
In comparison to Xiaomi's MIUI how is the Oxygen Os?
Does it have...
Call recording option in dialler without any third party software.
Something like a security app to clean cache, scan for virus's and grant permission for apps.
Inbuilt backup and restore option which backup all user data plus apps user made data to cloud.
Power options to change power saving profile according to time and restart the sevice automatically at given time like 6am.
And if you have used both MIUI and OOS... who do you think is better?
TheTempleRunner said:
In comparison to Xiaomi's MIUI how is the Oxygen Os?
Does it have...
Call recording option in dialler without any third party software.
Something like a security app to clean cache, scan for virus's and grant permission for apps.
Inbuilt backup and restore option which backup all user data plus apps user made data to cloud.
Power options to change power saving profile according to time and restart the sevice automatically at given time like 6am.
And if you have used both MIUI and OOS... who do you think is better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get a Mi phone for all those features plus a mi phone will have better support for miui roms. Oxygen os is close to stock with some little functional tweaks. it doesn't have anything fancy like miui. But if you would ask me which rom is better i would say oos. it's simple clean less gimmicky. Hope this helps you.
Hi,
If you want to try MIUI, I suggests, buy Mi5... A MIUI port won't stable than an original one.
From my perspective: MIUI is really beautiful... If you see the screenshots.... You should try it. I think, everyone tried at least once... But for daily driver? No way. If you ever used AOSP based roms (oos, cm, etc), you won't use MIUI. I'm 80% sure, that you'll replace the original launcher. Than you'll sick some annoying incompatibles... Just look at MIUI forums. Problems with pop-up windows (for example Facebook messanger), problems with Android Pay, etc, etc.
I was ordered Mi5 (4/128G), but it went to out of stock, so I got refund... That was my luck. Now, I'm a happy OP3 user, and I don't need MIUI... That's my opinion.
As someone who previously always used stock or near stock ROMS, I currently own a Xiaomi Mi5. I ran with Miui for about a few weeks, but it really frustrated the hell out of me. Yes it looks nice, but I was always finding background apps just randomly stopped working or you had to allow extra security settings. I tried Google Now Loader on it, but that randonmly stopped working. In the end, I've flashed CM on it. So much better.
Going from a stock or near stock rom to MIUI is like going from Android to Apple. I will be returning my Mi5 to stock and selling on, as I now have a OP3 on the way.
Another reason - community support for OP3 is already strong. The Mi5 support thread is a joke.
TheTempleRunner said:
In comparison to Xiaomi's MIUI how is the Oxygen Os?
Does it have...
Call recording option in dialler without any third party software.
Something like a security app to clean cache, scan for virus's and grant permission for apps.
Inbuilt backup and restore option which backup all user data plus apps user made data to cloud.
Power options to change power saving profile according to time and restart the sevice automatically at given time like 6am.
And if you have used both MIUI and OOS... who do you think is better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why dont you try the hos
for me OOS is better than miui. as i prefer stock android ui than heavily skinned miui.
MIUI 8 is cool- looking, feature-rich, but i just dont like the ios lookalike UX.
I have bad experiences with Oxygen in OP1 and 2, always uses CM or H20 ,
but if you are wondering about phones which running those 2 OS - Xiaomi mi5 and OP3, i think i should go for OP3, MI5 looks cheap with white color,and huge bezels
All the features you mentioned are available in the Chinese rom for OnePlus phones. Call recording is there, extra app permissions lockdown, etc. You'll have to install GApps manually if you need it.
The OP3 isn't on that page yet but should be soon.
Hope to See a miui rom for the op3 soon. Now using the mi launcher on it.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
I think both are not compareable. They try to reach different goals (MIUI feature rich and pretty colorful while OOS wants to add some features but stay close to stock). It depends mainly on the user.
I will be happy with tweaked OOS once my device will be delivered while you can count on custom ported MIUI roms. There's not that better one imho
CrashTestDroid said:
All the features you mentioned are available in the Chinese rom for OnePlus phones. Call recording is there, extra app permissions lockdown, etc. You'll have to install GApps manually if you need it.
The OP3 isn't on that page yet but should be soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It mean "call recording" is not available in Oxygen?
I expect your answer to flash Oxygen. My OP3 is running H20 and if it isn't "call recording", i will not flash.
all oxygen is is stock android with a few apps from oneplus. plus it supports layers themeing. so yes IMO its almost as good as getting a nexus and much better than miui.
OOS on a Mi5?
I'm not sold on the aesthetic and a couple aspects of the OP3, I quite prefer the Mi5. I'm strongly considering attempting to load OxygenOS onto the 4/128gb Mi5 as my next phone and it sounds like people in this thread might have direct experience with this setup.
Any thoughts/tips? I unfortunately can't wait for the new Nexus phone(s) but I'm also considering a couple phones from ZTE & Huawei...
Thanks
Porting OxygenOS would be hard and pointless at this point, because Mi5 doesn't even have kernel sources and a working AOSP ROM. If you really want iOS lookalikes, I would recommend OPPO phones. They didn't release flagship for a couple years, but at least they know how to develop software well. R7 Plus has even Cyanogenmod 13, I believe.
Keij0 said:
Porting OxygenOS would be hard and pointless at this point, because Mi5 doesn't even have kernel sources and a working AOSP ROM. If you really want iOS lookalikes, I would recommend OPPO phones. They didn't release flagship for a couple years, but at least they know how to develop software well. R7 Plus has even Cyanogenmod 13, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but I specifically don't like iOS and wanting a phone that doesn't look like an iPhone is part of the draw towards the Mi5. That R7 Plus is an interesting phone, but for me the screen is too big and the CPU & GPU are quite subpar.
No one who makes a smartphone for the US has made one with the specs I'm looking for. OP3 falls short, the Nexus 6P is too far behind now, I find the Galaxy S7 to be hideous, the G5 was a disappointment. The HTC 10 is the closest bet but it's battery life sucks probably due to its pointlessly 4K screen.
The Huawei P9, Honor V8, ZTE Nubia Z11, and the Mi5 Pro are my top contenders at the moment, but there's no way I'm using their own OSs.
IMO Samsung is a big disappointment, because of their weird things like Knox.
boy i hate miui.. its known to bring gingerbread memory leak issues to marshmellow ! hahaha on the mi5 it restarts apps unnecessarily lol
Gingerbread didn't have memory leaks... or I've not experienced them while I was using it. In comparison, lollipop and above always had them on my Z2. That's why I started porting SailfishOS
Simontjee said:
Hope to See a miui rom for the op3 soon. Now using the mi launcher on it.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the Mi launcher too. The look and feel of Miui and the best of OOS or Exodus Rom
OOS is great out of the box - stock Android with goodies (and useful goodies at that). Really stable and fast.
And since it's very near to stock Android, many Xposed modules work, so you can customize it much very easily.
It is beyond me why someone could prefer MIUI over that.
So I am switching to the One + 5T, I am coming from the Axon 7. I have alot of reading to do to catch up to current activity. I am curious if someone could assist on what to do and what not to do to quickly optimize my experience with this device. Are there certain update to do and not to do to avoid getting to a point of no return? I am not new to romming and unlocking the potential of devices.
On devices previously, it was better not to do certain updates due to locking yourself out of certain features and abilities that rooting and flashing custom roms provides. Mostly I would like to know what not to do, as I will read through all tutorials and instructions to find what best works for me. I would like to get the device I will be using daily up to speed.
Are there kernels that are better than others for battery like without compromising performance?
I read that 'codename phoenix' is the only ASOP with full OEM camera functionality, Is this still true as where I rad that could easily be dated with all the support for this device?
Any guidance or answers are greatly appreciated. To this device I am a noob, but not to the helpful community atmosphere XDA can provide
Thanks and Kind Regards,
Fellow enthusiast.
+1 for OP.
Wondering also what are possible benefits and drawbacks of using custom/modded version of kernel?
I couldn't get the OOS portrait mode to work on codename phenoix. In my experience codename phenoix had the worst camera experience. Every app like Snapchat and instagram had camera bugs and other ROMs don't. I also recommend flash kernel on any ROM. Rock stable and fast AF . there's always a way to get back to 100% stock and locked bootloader. I have net heard of a fully hard brick that couldnt be fixed. So go for it, even if u stay on OOS then later choose to go custom roms.
I'm on custom ROMs using gcam v6 beta. Its way better than OOS cam. I'm using the HDR front cam fix and I have the pixel 2 portrait mode on front and rear. Way better than OOS portrait but only work on human faces. U can also use this on OOS but with the fix it breaks face unlock
I'm in the same situation here, I'm getting my OP5T tomorrow and I've been reading XDA non-stop for a week trying to figure out the differences between the popular ROMs and Kernels so I know where to start.
So far I've come to the conclusion that Flash Kernel (for custom Roms or OOS) and RenderZenith (for OOS Stock only) are probably the best kernels around if you want performance and stability. Franco Kernel would be for saving more battery probably sacrificing performance.
And for stable ROMs (I don't care too much about customization, I just want stability and performance) either Omnirom or Liquid Remix.
Of course that it's really hard to judge without even being able to try them first and just reading lots of comments about each one, so I think I'll start with these first and see what happens. I've also seen many people recommending Resurrection Remix.
bkn89 said:
I'm in the same situation here, I'm getting my OP5T tomorrow and I've been reading XDA non-stop for a week trying to figure out the differences between the popular ROMs and Kernels so I know where to start.
So far I've come to the conclusion that Flash Kernel (for custom Roms or OOS) and RenderZenith (for OOS Stock only) are probably the best kernels around if you want performance and stability. Franco Kernel would be for saving more battery probably sacrificing performance.
And for stable ROMs (I don't care too much about customization, I just want stability and performance) either Omnirom or Liquid Remix.
Of course that it's really hard to judge without even being able to try them first and just reading lots of comments about each one, so I think I'll start with these first and see what happens. I've also seen many people recommending Resurrection Remix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tbh u just need to get them and try them all. I was like you. I made my mind up, that I would stick to RR when I got it. But I've tried most of the ROMs now, and tbh they are really similar in features wise. Some have little bits and pieces which make you stay. For example on cr droid u can customise the alert slider to toggle auto rotate and force rotation off etc.
Some ROMs lagged for me, some had delays when waking the screen, some didn't have proximity check when in pocket. Its up to you. Personally. Any time i'm on a custom ROM, I just flash , flash kernel because I know its amazing and lag free.
Ive been using Cr droid with flash kernel for weeks bug free with flash kernel for weeks.
I spent like one morning. Downloading all the ROMs, wiping and flashing them all without gapps so the install Is quick and just go through and looking at everything. U will be suprised how similar lots of them are. Its the little things that I look for.
Jamie_oppo said:
Tbh u just need to get them and try them all. I was like you. I made my mind up, that I would stick to RR when I got it. But I've tried most of the ROMs now, and tbh they are really similar in features wise. Some have little bits and pieces which make you stay. For example on cr droid u can customise the alert slider to toggle auto rotate and force rotation off etc.
Some ROMs lagged for me, some had delays when waking the screen, some didn't have proximity check when in pocket. Its up to you. Personally. Any time i'm on a custom ROM, I just flash , flash kernel because I know its amazing and lag free.
Ive been using Cr droid with flash kernel for weeks bug free with flash kernel for weeks.
I spent like one morning. Downloading all the ROMs, wiping and flashing them all without gapps so the install Is quick and just go through and looking at everything. U will be suprised how similar lots of them are. Its the little things that I look for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply!
I'm thinking the first days I'll keep OOS and maybe flash "Flash Kernel" or "RenderZenith" since apparently it gives the smoothest experience and then I'll start flashing ROMs. I really like the idea of ROMs with OTA updates like LineageOS which I currently have on my Moto G4 Plus because then I don't have to continuously check the forums to see if there is an update available, do you know of any other custom ROM that does this? Also, when you update a ROM, do you have to flash the kernel again each time?
bkn89 said:
Thanks for your reply!
I'm thinking the first days I'll keep OOS and maybe flash "Flash Kernel" or "RenderZenith" since apparently it gives the smoothest experience and then I'll start flashing ROMs. I really like the idea of ROMs with OTA updates like LineageOS which I currently have on my Moto G4 Plus because then I don't have to continuously check the forums to see if there is an update available, do you know of any other custom ROM that does this? Also, when you update a ROM, do you have to flash the kernel again each time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah the custom kernel needs to be reflashed. So the ota will update but u will still need to flash a kernel which to me defeats the purpose of an ota. So I just manually do it. Also kernels get updated often too. OK what I recommend. As soon as u get the phone. Unlock the bootloader and install magisk. And stay stock for a while. Try out the camera (I miss the OOS cam with that awesome 4k stabilisation) but gcam is better for the rest. And then try custom kernels. I didn't really notice much difference on oos with custom kernels but on aosp I noticed it fly.
Jamie_oppo said:
Yeah the custom kernel needs to be reflashed. So the ota will update but u will still need to flash a kernel which to me defeats the purpose of an ota. So I just manually do it. Also kernels get updated often too. OK what I recommend. As soon as u get the phone. Unlock the bootloader and install magisk. And stay stock for a while. Try out the camera (I miss the OOS cam with that awesome 4k stabilisation) but gcam is better for the rest. And then try custom kernels. I didn't really notice much difference on oos with custom kernels but on aosp I noticed it fly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! And one last question if you don't mind, I'm pretty sure the phone will come with Android 7.1.2 and my understanding is that the latest OOS version contains Oreo. After hearing about all the bugs Oreo brought, should I stay in Nougat for now or is it safe to upgrade to Oreo? I don't mind staying in Nougat for now if it means I'll have better battery life and/or stability.
bkn89 said:
Awesome! And one last question if you don't mind, I'm pretty sure the phone will come with Android 7.1.2 and my understanding is that the latest OOS version contains Oreo. After hearing about all the bugs Oreo brought, should I stay in Nougat for now or is it safe to upgrade to Oreo? I don't mind staying in Nougat for now if it means I'll have better battery life and/or stability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using OOS 5.0.4 completely stock Android 8.0.0 which is the latest official version there is (to my knowledge) and I haven't experienced a single bug.
bkn89 said:
Awesome! And one last question if you don't mind, I'm pretty sure the phone will come with Android 7.1.2 and my understanding is that the latest OOS version contains Oreo. After hearing about all the bugs Oreo brought, should I stay in Nougat for now or is it safe to upgrade to Oreo? I don't mind staying in Nougat for now if it means I'll have better battery life and/or stability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oneplus last nougat update was 7.1.1 and the Oreo update for me has less bugs for me and has better battery life. Custom kernels can fix battery life ?. Wouldn't recommend to stay on nougat. Everyones on the Oreo train
TBH i feel that the stock OS is fine performance and battery wise and there is not much point rooting and installing a custom ROM unless you want even more customization than what OOS gives u
I think you're better off running the stock ROM (8.0 or 8.1) and stock kernel first on any new device, at least for a few days, to get a baseline. After that try different kernels and/or ROMs if you're not satisfied with stock.
Unless you have the stock experience you've nothing to compare custom mods to.
And to be frank, OOS is a pretty awesome AOSP mod anyway and any difference a kernel is going to make is in the margins.
djmcnz said:
I think you're better off running the stock ROM (8.0 or 8.1) and stock kernel first on any new device, at least for a few days, to get a baseline. After that try different kernels and/or ROMs if you're not satisfied with stock.
Unless you have the stock experience you've nothing to compare custom mods to.
And to be frank, OOS is a pretty awesome AOSP mod anyway and any difference a kernel going to make is in the margins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ this
I bought this phone a month ago and still using till now. After trying all stock and custom roms, I have my own choice, just simple, stock 5.0.4 rom (or beta 5 rom) + your favorite kernel (up to you) + stock camera mod (it's a must if you need better quality photos) + magisk (for camera mod) = stable daily use for me.
I have been using for over a week and I think it's going better with time, so far so good now, average 8 hrs SoT (15% bettery left) within 50+ hrs is about the same as my old Mate9, still less than custom rom 1 hr SoT but no problem for me (the phone comes with Dash charger). I also use Xposed with GB that's why I dont need custom roms anymore.
lemonade747 said:
I bought this phone a month ago and still using till now. After trying all stock and custom roms, I have my own choice, just simple, stock 5.0.4 rom (or beta 5 rom) + your favorite kernel (up to you) + stock camera mod (it's a must if you need better quality photos) + magisk (for camera mod) = stable daily use for me.
I have been using for over a week and I think it's going better with time, so far so good now, average 8 hrs SoT (15% bettery left) within 50+ hrs is about the same as my old Mate9, still less than custom rom 1 hr SoT but no problem for me (the phone comes with Dash charger). I also use Xposed with GB that's why I dont need custom roms anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link which camera mod has there's a few knocking around it's it the gcam
Thanks
sutty86 said:
Can you link which camera mod has there's a few knocking around it's it the gcam
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you are:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/themes/mod-oneplus-camera-jpg-quality-to-100-t3714595
the title is for Oneplus5 but it's working well with 5T also, no problem so far. I used to use Gcam but after days I realized that it's not much better than stock mod cam. In addition, gcam shutter speed is slower than stock mod cam and it lacks of many feature from the stock one. I can say with stock mod cam, OP5T photo quality is better than my Mate9 right now, Im sure for that. (with original stock cam, it's the worst but with stock mod cam, it's much better than many cams out there, no more noise and grain in low light)
I've just come from mate 9 , bought a view 10 last week , really pissed at the camera/video lack of eis makes it unusuable.
Received 5t a few hours ago flashed beta and took some snaps video and I'm impressed
---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------
Already missing ir blaster
Trust me i have been user of OP3 and now op5t ..OOS is best out there and if you wanto to go swing and unlock bootloaderOOS+Franco is lethal ..you can also use xXx no limits available on OP 5 forums or any other OOS based custom roms
lemonade747 said:
I bought this phone a month ago and still using till now. After trying all stock and custom roms, I have my own choice, just simple, stock 5.0.4 rom (or beta 5 rom) + your favorite kernel (up to you) + stock camera mod (it's a must if you need better quality photos) + magisk (for camera mod) = stable daily use for me.
I have been using for over a week and I think it's going better with time, so far so good now, average 8 hrs SoT (15% bettery left) within 50+ hrs is about the same as my old Mate9, still less than custom rom 1 hr SoT but no problem for me (the phone comes with Dash charger). I also use Xposed with GB that's why I dont need custom roms anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What module are you using in magisk
Hello ,
Actually my Mi5S is working great on MIUI 9.5 global stable ROM. Nevertheless, I don't really like MIUI design and I'd like to change to a Oreo (Stock) ROM like Lineage OS 15.1 or AOSP extended but I need some feedback about them (like Battery, bugs, Performance, Stability etc...) because feedback on topics aren't really complete. You also could share other Oreo ROM which are stable enough. Don't forget to specify which version of the ROM you have.
Thanks a lot and I hope this thread will help others!
Install RessurectionRemix ROM (or PixelExperience - slightly faster IMO) and you don't have to wory about nothing
AEX seems to work best with my phone. Faster than LOS and PixelExp, superior and consistent battery life (6h of SOT with ForceDoze installed) and no noteworthy bugs. Considering stablity and extra functions there are very few bad choices as most ROMs for this device are pretty good. Just be sure to install the right hardware-firmware and follow installation instructions carefully.
If you're moving from MIUI the battery is the thing that will probably will get worse results. Performance and features are better with the custom ROMs. Also installing a modded GCam (ported Pixel image processing for really good quality) is a must.
[sorry X2 post, didn't find how to delete it]
Okey guys thanks for your reply. Are you using a custom kernel ?
@Djeloan Pixel Experience seems to not be updated anymore... No more support ?
@8166uy I reckon I will install AEX if it's enough stable for daily use. By the way, you recommend to install a modded Cam. Is it because pre-installed cam on Custom ROM doesn't work as well as stock Cam on MIUI ?
I'm not a big fan of custom kernels as you don't profit THAT much with it, but does give extra problems every few weeks. And yes the modded camera is partly because the stock camera from the ROMs aren't all that good, but also because with it you can make it as good as modern flagships from the big western brands. So expect better sharpness, better dynamic range, better low-light performance and a properly working portrait background blurring effect.
For the best results take the GCam from B-S-G or Arnova for pictures (there are threads plenty about them here) and OpenCamera for videos (can be found here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera).
Download link for all versions of the modded GCam are btw here if you feel adventurous. Some are more stable than others:
https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/
I use this one because of stability and device specific tweaks:
https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/...018.177470874.41362666__A7.0-8.1_MI5S_v2e.apk
Great ? thanks for sharing that ^^
I've heard that Arnova's GCam works significantly better on Oreo than BSG's.
For me the Arnova ones just keeps crashing with low light no matter which version I pick, so I would just try both and see which one fits best. I personally never had any problems with B-S-G builds on Oreo.
i avoid messing with kernal's unless its a hobby you enjoy. it can get time consuming later on
8166uy said:
For me the Arnova ones just keeps crashing with low light no matter which version I pick, so I would just try both and see which one fits best. I personally never had any problems with B-S-G builds on Oreo.
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use toylan's
I tried searching this forum before asking, so forgive me if someone has already asked this before. I want opinions from users who tried both AOSP and MIUI based ROMs. I wanted to know which is more stable/feature rich and better. If you hate or are strongly against MIUI and hence will never use it that is fine, but I am more interested in those who don't have such a negative opinion of MIUI and I want an honest and fair comparison of the two types of ROMs.
I am currently on ArrowOS and it is pretty decent. However, it does have some minor bugs and inconveniences. The main one is that the default Google phone app has issues with incoming calls - I cannot hear the other person on incoming calls until I activate speakerphone. Also, I believe some features are missing in AOSP based ROMs such as Dolby audio, and some other niche features. Also, it is quite unfortunate that AOSP based ROMs cannot take full advantage of the cameras and are limited to 12 Megapixels only and some camera features are missing.
Now, I wanted to know if I can have full camera functionality in MIUI based ROMs? Does it also have the same kind of incoming call bug? And lastly, can I still install GCam on MIUI based ROMs and get the best of both worlds, that is use MIUI camera app and GCam as well? Your advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
I'm gonna copy>paste my answer from another thread:
This answer probably is going to sound harsh, but it is truth (at least for me hahaha).
I've tried literally every custom rom from here (and also a few ones that are baked outside XDA, i.e. HOS, the Android 12 build, etc) and yeah, not even one custom rom gets near the stability, compatibility and battery life of MIUI.
I don't like MIUI at all, but the battery consuption and stability is the best to be used as a daily driver. I hate when I want to do something on my daily basis and then I fail to do it because I'm using a custom rom, for example: bluetooth issues when connecting the phone with my car, video calls having audio issues, low volume on calls, etc) or just taking a photo.
MIUI covers all those little points, and at the end of the day, is the only rom that fullfill all my needs. I personally use eu (the weekly release), as it is just an optimized version of MIUI, but yeah, I still dream on the day that a custom rom gets to the same level of stability and compatibility as MIUI. I TRULY love pixel like roms, but I just don't wan't to sacrifice stability or just simply downgrade the cam quality just for that.
And if I really need to chose a custom rom, I'll pick Lineage, it's the best custom rom out there, has awesome battery life, extra features and the rom/mantainers are not just going to stop developing the weekly nightlies just because they get tired of it. On second place there is HOS, the only issue with HOS that I had is that the thermals of my phone gets real high when I play games (this does not happen with other roms).
=)
Here's the thread: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/best-custom-rom.4275947/page-6
Kimbaroth said:
I'm gonna copy>paste my answer from another thread:
This answer probably is going to sound harsh, but it is truth (at least for me hahaha).
I've tried literally every custom rom from here (and also a few ones that are baked outside XDA, i.e. HOS, the Android 12 build, etc) and yeah, not even one custom rom gets near the stability, compatibility and battery life of MIUI.
I don't like MIUI at all, but the battery consuption and stability is the best to be used as a daily driver. I hate when I want to do something on my daily basis and then I fail to do it because I'm using a custom rom, for example: bluetooth issues when connecting the phone with my car, video calls having audio issues, low volume on calls, etc) or just taking a photo.
MIUI covers all those little points, and at the end of the day, is the only rom that fullfill all my needs. I personally use eu (the weekly release), as it is just an optimized version of MIUI, but yeah, I still dream on the day that a custom rom gets to the same level of stability and compatibility as MIUI. I TRULY love pixel like roms, but I just don't wan't to sacrifice stability or just simply downgrade the cam quality just for that.
And if I really need to chose a custom rom, I'll pick Lineage, it's the best custom rom out there, has awesome battery life, extra features and the rom/mantainers are not just going to stop developing the weekly nightlies just because they get tired of it. On second place there is HOS, the only issue with HOS that I had is that the thermals of my phone gets real high when I play games (this does not happen with other roms).
=)
Here's the thread: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/best-custom-rom.4275947/page-6
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply! Yes I read your post on that other thread as well and it was a very good post. I feel that your observation is accurate. MIUI based ROMs seem to give us the most stability and feature set. Unfortunately AOSP ROMs have things lacking that MIUI ROMs have by default like the Camera. I think this is making me inclined to install a MIUI ROM I guess.
A quick follow up question: Can I install GCam on the Xiaomi.eu ROM? The only feature I want from GCam is the "photosphere" mode.
litetaker said:
A quick follow up question: Can I install GCam on the Xiaomi.eu ROM? The only feature I want from GCam is the "photosphere" mode.
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You can try that by yourself, there are a lot of gcam variants, better download a couple of them and try one by one: https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/
litetaker said:
I tried searching this forum before asking, so forgive me if someone has already asked this before. I want opinions from users who tried both AOSP and MIUI based ROMs. I wanted to know which is more stable/feature rich and better. If you hate or are strongly against MIUI and hence will never use it that is fine, but I am more interested in those who don't have such a negative opinion of MIUI and I want an honest and fair comparison of the two types of ROMs.
I am currently on ArrowOS and it is pretty decent. However, it does have some minor bugs and inconveniences. The main one is that the default Google phone app has issues with incoming calls - I cannot hear the other person on incoming calls until I activate speakerphone. Also, I believe some features are missing in AOSP based ROMs such as Dolby audio, and some other niche features. Also, it is quite unfortunate that AOSP based ROMs cannot take full advantage of the cameras and are limited to 12 Megapixels only and some camera features are missing.
Now, I wanted to know if I can have full camera functionality in MIUI based ROMs? Does it also have the same kind of incoming call bug? And lastly, can I still install GCam on MIUI based ROMs and get the best of both worlds, that is use MIUI camera app and GCam as well? Your advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
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Click to collapse
Overall, I'd also rather have Vanilla Android.
But I do like Xiaomi's added permission-manager, which restricts Apps further, Dolby Atmos (Much better than Moto Dolby, and Razer Dolby in AOSP ROMs), and the MIUI Camera App.
Yes, you can use Gcam on MIUI as well. The ports have gotten good.
Recommended Stable Google Camera Port Versions
A list of suggested / recommended and known to be stable Google Camera apks.
www.celsoazevedo.com
BSG GCam APKs - Google Camera Port
Modified Google Camera app by BSG.
www.celsoazevedo.com
Arnova8G2 GCam APKs - Google Camera Port
Modified Google Camera app by Arnova8G2.
www.celsoazevedo.com
Arnova8G2 (Beta) GCam APKs - Google Camera Port
Modified Google Camera app by Arnova8G2 (Beta).
www.celsoazevedo.com
Calling works normal on MIUI. Call Recording too.
litetaker said:
I tried searching this forum before asking, so forgive me if someone has already asked this before. I want opinions from users who tried both AOSP and MIUI based ROMs. I wanted to know which is more stable/feature rich and better. If you hate or are strongly against MIUI and hence will never use it that is fine, but I am more interested in those who don't have such a negative opinion of MIUI and I want an honest and fair comparison of the two types of ROMs.
I am currently on ArrowOS and it is pretty decent. However, it does have some minor bugs and inconveniences. The main one is that the default Google phone app has issues with incoming calls - I cannot hear the other person on incoming calls until I activate speakerphone. Also, I believe some features are missing in AOSP based ROMs such as Dolby audio, and some other niche features. Also, it is quite unfortunate that AOSP based ROMs cannot take full advantage of the cameras and are limited to 12 Megapixels only and some camera features are missing.
Now, I wanted to know if I can have full camera functionality in MIUI based ROMs? Does it also have the same kind of incoming call bug? And lastly, can I still install GCam on MIUI based ROMs and get the best of both worlds, that is use MIUI camera app and GCam as well? Your advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've used most of custom roms and just like the user above, I switched back to miui (weekly xiaomi eu). I found some annoying issues in every single rom, like random reboots while using LTE, and high idle batery drain.
Aosp roms are more clean and smooth, but they lack of the stability of Miui and some features like the MEMC, dobly, game mode, etc.
So, in the mean time I will stay on miui
SanPepsi said:
i've used most of custom roms and just like the user above, I switched back to miui (weekly xiaomi eu). I found many issues in every single rom, like random reboots while using LTE, and high idle batery drain.
Aosp roms are more clean and smooth, but they lack of the stability of Miui and some features like the MEMC, dobly, game mode, etc.
So, in the mean time I will stay on miui
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Click to collapse
I'm also on Xiaomi.eu Weekly. I've seen your question here on XDA about the random reboots, but I don't know a solution to your problem.
I've only stayed on a single AOSP ROM for max. 2 days before switching to other AOSP ROMs, but I only experienced 1 crash during Android Setup, I think.
I only used 4G/LTE internet, no calls as far as I know.
I tried many aosp custom roms and went back to stock Miui. High end phones have extra features like Dolby atmos which improves sound quality a lot and no custom rom sounds as good as Miui, and some very useful built in features like timing AOD which is very convenient,... I feel like Aosp custom roms would be better for mid range phone like Redmi notes, Poco F3 is powerful enough to be smooth even in Miui
Hey,
I just switched to MiuiMiX, most things are great. But there are some things that are missing, and I hope you can help me .
First, the most important thing, navigation gestures with third party launcher. Is there an efficient way to make gestures works with third party launcher (I use Niagara Launcher, and it worked great with AOSP ROMs), I tried many things, but none worked or in a bad way, annoying to use the stock launcher while I paid for Niagara launcher which is perfect for me. The other problems aren't really caused by MIUI, or I just need some adaptation, or else...
Otherwise, what do you recommend for MIUI based ROM ?
I don't care a whole lot for the Xiaomi Miui based roms to clunky to bloated and slow compared to lets say Arrow is clean fast and battery life is much better , even Xiaomi.eu version is bloated in my opinion, themes , miui music app and video and the the built in Avast scanner all crap! but to each his own .
jefffrom said:
I don't care a whole lot for the Xiaomi Miui based roms to clunky to bloated and slow compared to lets say Arrow is clean fast and battery life is much better , even Xiaomi.eu version is bloated in my opinion, themes , miui music app and video and the the built in Avast scanner all crap! but to each his own .
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Click to collapse
That is a fair point but overall I still find MIUI to be the better ROM than AOSP ROMs.
I agree that MIUI has more bloat and a lot more pre-installed system apps. But I don't think it is slow at all. It is absolutely snappy and just as fast as AOSP ROMs. Battery life, I personally do not see any significant difference between the two. In fact I probably experienced more idle battery drain on ArrowOS and sometimes the phone was unable to go into deep sleep mode on ArrowOS.
But the main reason I prefer MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP even though my previous phone was a Pixel 2 and I really appreciate clean stock Android is because a lot of features are lost when I go to AOSP ROMs that I cannot justify it! Why use a ROM that takes away a lot of the features that came with the phone? I paid for all those features and I would like to use them.
For me camera is very very important and I was undewhelmed by GCam. I really wanted the proper functionality of stock MIUI camera. And the good news is I can install GCam on MIUI ROMs too to get the best of both worlds!
For me, the following is a small selection of features that are better on MIUI ROMs than AOSP:
Better Camera; there is no sound issue with incoming calls (was a problem on ArrowOS), better screen recorder features with floating controls, better screen casting functionality, useful built-in apps like voice recorder, notes, compass, weather app, also the calculator app and clock app are better and more feature rich than Google's equivalents
You can force dark mode on apps, which is really useful for those apps that don't have dark mode or make dark mode a paid feature
Dolby Atmos, MEMC, floating windows, one handed mode and other useful features not in AOSP ROMs
I personally prefer the layout of the notification panel in MIUI more than Stock Android. In fact, I liked Samsung One UI's implementation of the notification panel more than Google's stock implementation. Brightness slider is at the bottom to be more easily accessible, the settings icon is on the top so I do not have to expand the quick toggles to get that icon unlike in Stock Android.
And honestly, once I have the phone all setup it looks great! Nowadays Android skins are relatively mild unlike the heavy handed UIs like TouchWiz and HTC Sense of the past. Even the latest MIUI looks fairly mild and after everything is setup there is not a lot of difference compared to Stock Android in appearance. In fact it looks a bit better than the very spartan Stock Android look. Even the Settings app is nicer with the bigger icons and fonts. So I am quite happy with the Xiaomi.eu ROM.
I hope this comparison of MIUI ROM vs AOSP interface is useful to others if they want to get an overview of what you get from MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP.
litetaker said:
That is a fair point but overall I still find MIUI to be the better ROM than AOSP ROMs.
I agree that MIUI has more bloat and a lot more pre-installed system apps. But I don't think it is slow at all. It is absolutely snappy and just as fast as AOSP ROMs. Battery life, I personally do not see any significant difference between the two. In fact I probably experienced more idle battery drain on ArrowOS and sometimes the phone was unable to go into deep sleep mode on ArrowOS.
But the main reason I prefer MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP even though my previous phone was a Pixel 2 and I really appreciate clean stock Android is because a lot of features are lost when I go to AOSP ROMs that I cannot justify it! Why use a ROM that takes away a lot of the features that came with the phone? I paid for all those features and I would like to use them.
For me camera is very very important and I was undewhelmed by GCam. I really wanted the proper functionality of stock MIUI camera. And the good news is I can install GCam on MIUI ROMs too to get the best of both worlds!
For me, the following is a small selection of features that are better on MIUI ROMs than AOSP:
Better Camera; there is no sound issue with incoming calls (was a problem on ArrowOS), better screen recorder features with floating controls, better screen casting functionality, useful built-in apps like voice recorder, notes, compass, weather app, also the calculator app and clock app are better and more feature rich than Google's equivalents
You can force dark mode on apps, which is really useful for those apps that don't have dark mode or make dark mode a paid feature
Dolby Atmos, MEMC, floating windows, one handed mode and other useful features not in AOSP ROMs
I personally prefer the layout of the notification panel in MIUI more than Stock Android. In fact, I liked Samsung One UI's implementation of the notification panel more than Google's stock implementation. Brightness slider is at the bottom to be more easily accessible, the settings icon is on the top so I do not have to expand the quick toggles to get that icon unlike in Stock Android.
And honestly, once I have the phone all setup it looks great! Nowadays Android skins are relatively mild unlike the heavy handed UIs like TouchWiz and HTC Sense of the past. Even the latest MIUI looks fairly mild and after everything is setup there is not a lot of difference compared to Stock Android in appearance. In fact it looks a bit better than the very spartan Stock Android look. Even the Settings app is a nicer with the bigger icons and fonts. So I am quite happy with the Xiaomi.eu ROM.
I hope this comparison of MIUI ROM vs AOSP interface is useful to others if they want to get an overview of what you get from MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP.
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Click to collapse
Nice, I'm have some lags with MiuiMiX... And MIUI is still very limited with some things... It's a choice to make AOSP and MIUI have advantages and disadvantages..
litetaker said:
That is a fair point but overall I still find MIUI to be the better ROM than AOSP ROMs.
I agree that MIUI has more bloat and a lot more pre-installed system apps. But I don't think it is slow at all. It is absolutely snappy and just as fast as AOSP ROMs. Battery life, I personally do not see any significant difference between the two. In fact I probably experienced more idle battery drain on ArrowOS and sometimes the phone was unable to go into deep sleep mode on ArrowOS.
But the main reason I prefer MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP even though my previous phone was a Pixel 2 and I really appreciate clean stock Android is because a lot of features are lost when I go to AOSP ROMs that I cannot justify it! Why use a ROM that takes away a lot of the features that came with the phone? I paid for all those features and I would like to use them.
For me camera is very very important and I was undewhelmed by GCam. I really wanted the proper functionality of stock MIUI camera. And the good news is I can install GCam on MIUI ROMs too to get the best of both worlds!
For me, the following is a small selection of features that are better on MIUI ROMs than AOSP:
Better Camera; there is no sound issue with incoming calls (was a problem on ArrowOS), better screen recorder features with floating controls, better screen casting functionality, useful built-in apps like voice recorder, notes, compass, weather app, also the calculator app and clock app are better and more feature rich than Google's equivalents
You can force dark mode on apps, which is really useful for those apps that don't have dark mode or make dark mode a paid feature
Dolby Atmos, MEMC, floating windows, one handed mode and other useful features not in AOSP ROMs
I personally prefer the layout of the notification panel in MIUI more than Stock Android. In fact, I liked Samsung One UI's implementation of the notification panel more than Google's stock implementation. Brightness slider is at the bottom to be more easily accessible, the settings icon is on the top so I do not have to expand the quick toggles to get that icon unlike in Stock Android.
And honestly, once I have the phone all setup it looks great! Nowadays Android skins are relatively mild unlike the heavy handed UIs like TouchWiz and HTC Sense of the past. Even the latest MIUI looks fairly mild and after everything is setup there is not a lot of difference compared to Stock Android in appearance. In fact it looks a bit better than the very spartan Stock Android look. Even the Settings app is nicer with the bigger icons and fonts. So I am quite happy with the Xiaomi.eu ROM.
I hope this comparison of MIUI ROM vs AOSP interface is useful to others if they want to get an overview of what you get from MIUI ROMs compared to AOSP.
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Click to collapse
some very valid points my friend but you got to ask yourself do the positives outweigh the negatives ? I will agree miss the stock camera and Atmos but dam everything else just works better..I just can't deal with the bloat of the stock rom.
jefffrom said:
some very valid points my friend but you got to ask yourself do the positives outweigh the negatives ? I will agree miss the stock camera and Atmos but dam everything else just works better..I just can't deal with the bloat of the stock rom.
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Click to collapse
I have hidden away the bloat completely. I don't see any major negatives with this ROM so far.
In my opinion, if you want to save some time then don't think about flashing custom ROM in the initial days of purchase. Just stick with preloaded stock ROM so that you can enjoy the fancy features which lure you into buying that phone. Flashing is an addiction after some time and there are tons of ROMs which get regular updates that will keep busy in flashing ROMs. I think the thumb rule should be to wait until 1 year (typical warranty period and end of regular update cycle from OEM) before flashing any custom ROMs. After that, you will definitely enjoy ASOP ROMs.
I always go away from miui due to security and privacy concerns + the bloated applications and the ads. I have found ARROWOS and HOS to be working the best on PocoF3, keep in mind miui has higher antutu scores because it has a specific profile for bench-marking called "nolimit"
Noe367 said:
Hey,
I just switched to MiuiMiX, most things are great. But there are some things that are missing, and I hope you can help me .
First, the most important thing, navigation gestures with third party launcher. Is there an efficient way to make gestures works with third party launcher (I use Niagara Launcher, and it worked great with AOSP ROMs), I tried many things, but none worked or in a bad way, annoying to use the stock launcher while I paid for Niagara launcher which is perfect for me. The other problems aren't really caused by MIUI, or I just need some adaptation, or else...
Otherwise, what do you recommend for MIUI based ROM ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a guide thread open on how to use gestures with any launcher, you need magisk, and Nav Remover Module
ketanmore said:
In my opinion, if you want to save some time then don't think about flashing custom ROM in the initial days of purchase. Just stick with preloaded stock ROM so that you can enjoy the fancy features which lure you into buying that phone. Flashing is an addiction after some time and there are tons of ROMs which get regular updates that will keep busy in flashing ROMs. I think the thumb rule should be to wait until 1 year (typical warranty period and end of regular update cycle from OEM) before flashing any custom ROMs. After that, you will definitely enjoy ASOP ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many Roms have semi automated updates. Arrow for example has 1 button to check for an update and then pops another to install the available update. That's it, everything is done in the background, you can use your phone as usual. Restart whenever it's convenient for you and you are done. Just like in stock MIUI
Zimmster said:
Many Roms have semi automated updates. Arrow for example has 1 button to check for an update and then pops another to install the available update. That's it, everything is done in the background, you can use your phone as usual. Restart whenever it's convenient for you and you are done. Just like in stock MIUI
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Click to collapse
Is it straightforward to install updates for ArrowOS with Magisk root? Or will it block updates or something?