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Hi,
2 weeks ago I got my P8000 from the german elephone distribution, it came with android 6. It seems to be an other version of the phone, the fingerprint sensor has moved up near the camera.
So my problem is, that I can't find a working rom for this device. I tried to root the phone and after that it did not boot anymore, so I tried to flash the 6.0 stock rom but the screen is white with moving stripes.
Where can I get a working rom for my phone?
Nobody with a new version phone who could take a dump for me?
flo1k said:
Nobody with a new version phone who could take a dump for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you should ask elephone (on facebook or some other social medias) for a dump, I don't see any chances that there are many people out there that own the 2016 version... :/
I wrote to the elephone facebook contact but they just pointed me to the BBS with the not working 'old' Rom file.
So if I could get another new P8000 would it be easy to take a dump oft it and flash it to my phone?
flo1k said:
I wrote to the elephone facebook contact but they just pointed me to the BBS with the not working 'old' Rom file.
So if I could get another new P8000 would it be easy to take a dump oft it and flash it to my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you won't have to buy a new device, just point out to them that, that rom on the forum is for the old version and it's not working for your's. I hope they'll provide it for you.
Hey!
I just received this version and would be willing to take the dump, but I don't know how.
MTKDroidTools says unknown rom structure and doesn't allow me to do it.
Any tips?
Emile
Hey Emileh these are great news! I cannot help you with this, but surely someone here can!
Many thanks,
Flo
flo1k said:
Hi,
2 weeks ago I got my P8000 from the german elephone distribution, it came with android 6. It seems to be an other version of the phone, the fingerprint sensor has moved up near the camera.
So my problem is, that I can't find a working rom for this device. I tried to root the phone and after that it did not boot anymore, so I tried to flash the 6.0 stock rom but the screen is white with moving stripes.
Where can I get a working rom for my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
install niew rom
vagca said:
install niew rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I don't understand
I have at least two P8000(B) - and bricked one of them see this post:http://forum.xda-developers.com/elephone-p8000/help/stock-rom-p8000b-t3434477
The good news are: I still have a working one and could use this as a source to generate a firmware file... if someone could tell me how
I think I have to do the procedure with the SP Flashtool because the display of the faulty phone is not usable
FrauHofrat said:
I think I have to do the procedure with the SP Flashtool because the display of the faulty phone is not usable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same as mine. The display controller seems to be another one.
I'm guessing thats just a kernel problem, right? The drivers in the kernel?
FrauHofrat said:
I have at least two P8000(B) - and bricked one of them see this post:http://forum.xda-developers.com/elephone-p8000/help/stock-rom-p8000b-t3434477
The good news are: I still have a working one and could use this as a source to generate a firmware file... if someone could tell me how
I think I have to do the procedure with the SP Flashtool because the display of the faulty phone is not usable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
P8000B is almost impossible to brick. If you install SP flash, and download the correct recovery (like TWRP), and the correct version ROM's with scatter.txt you can recovery the phone in just about any circumstance. I put the P8000B recovery files on my PC, Formatted whole flash and bootloader. After that, the phone was bricked, and wouldn't turn on. Loaded the P8000B system recovery scatter.txt, and SP flash installed it perfectly. Booted fine. With SP flash it's almost impossible not to be able to restore the P8000B as long as you have proper files,
kgoerbig said:
P8000B is almost impossible to brick. If you install SP flash, and download the correct recovery (like TWRP), and the correct version ROM's with scatter.txt you can recovery the phone in just about any circumstance. I put the P8000B recovery files on my PC, Formatted whole flash and bootloader. After that, the phone was bricked, and wouldn't turn on. Loaded the P8000B system recovery scatter.txt, and SP flash installed it perfectly. Booted fine. With SP flash it's almost impossible not to be able to restore the P8000B as long as you have proper files,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is mainly correct, but....
With SP flash it's almost impossible not to be able to restore the P8000B as long as you have proper files,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no Stock ROM, no scatter file and I think not even a TWRP or Philz Recovery available for the 'new version' of the P8000 - I call it P8000(B) because it is written on the box of the phone.
Emileh made a good description of the problem here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/elephone-p8000/general/2016-version-fingerprint-scanner-t3436270
But you could help us if you can provide the necessary files....
Is it the us version? It's the same one I have. I'll post a video how to soon
******EDIT******
FrauHofrat, sorry I did not realize that there was a "Rev.2" out for the P8000 US Version. I am surprised Elephone hasn't released a flash-able version for SPflash yet. Honestly, it would be in their best interest to ship any Rev of their US versions w/ TWRP and freely distributing flash-able images/scatter.txt, so if it gets bricked during a failed OTA update, folks would not have to send their phones back to be fixed. I have the Rev 1 of that phone.
Any word on the Elephone forum regarding the Rev. 2 version for images/scatter.txt? I will keep an eye out. Is there any specific model related info that shows up in About Phone, or written on the box/battery?
Sent from my p8000 using Tapatalk
We're not talking about the P8000-B here, which I believe has different LTE bands so it's better suited for the USA
We're talking about P8000 6.0, which is the newer version of the phone that's currently being shipped in Europe. It has some small technical changes and stock Android 6
Edit: by the way, the box does say P8000(B), but I don't really trust that description
Hi guys,
I was just looking at the elephone forum and found this: http://bbs.elephone.hk/thread-11929-1-1.html#.V7WrLDWbfSY . There's the stock rom link for the 2nd revision of the P8000, so hope you can get it working properly again.
@ardrift
Thank you for this information - the ROM works and the phone is alive again!
But there is still one thing to do: because of flashing the wrong firmware my phone lost the IMEI. This should'nt be a problem on rooted devices but the stock ROM resists all attempts to be rooted
FrauHofrat said:
@ardrift
Thank you for this information - the ROM works and the phone is alive again!
But there is still one thing to do: because of flashing the wrong firmware my phone lost the IMEI. This should'nt be a problem on rooted devices but the stock ROM resists all attempts to be rooted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you try dialing *#*6813#*#* in the stock dialer app? Someone on the elephone forum has written this as a solution, altough I don't know if it works, or how would it work... If you are stuck you can upload a screenshot, I can look at it
PS: Your IMEI numbers should be sticked on your battery, you can see them if you remove the phone's back.
Change IMEI on P8000
@ardrift:
first I thought this is a joke but actually it worked :victory:
with *#*#6813#*#* entered on the stock dialer you can acess the "IMEI-Tool" which allows you to enter a new IMEI for both SIM cards. The new IMEI stay permanent even after reboot and this also works on 'old' P8000.
Sometimes life can be so easy
Hello guys
I ve been being trouble with my reno 5a, its network lost after flashing upgrade rom
Can you guys have any solutions ?
Suryo75 said:
Hello guys
I ve been being trouble with my reno 5a, its network lost after flashing upgrade rom
Can you guys have any solutions ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make a rollback with the recovery and make sure you flashed the correct rom.
flekkelek said:
make a rollback with the recovery and make sure you flashed the correct rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been done to flash into miui 10, and even flashed back to miui 9. But i've got another error which is no IMEI.
Suryo75 said:
I have been done to flash into miui 10, and even flashed back to miui 9. But i've got another error which is no IMEI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erase system and data partition as well before flashing.
flekkelek said:
Erase system and data partition as well before flashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its still no impact, my reno 5a has no signal
Suryo75 said:
Its still no impact, my reno 5a has no signal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it can be hw failure then. Does it ask for sim pin after boot?
flekkelek said:
it can be hw failure then. Does it ask for sim pin after boot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It just start into home screen, once it succed flashing, phone has its error with no network. Ive been erased modemst1, flash Non-HLOS.bin, but nothing change.
Suryo75 said:
It just start into home screen, once it succed flashing, phone has its error with no network. Ive been erased modemst1, flash Non-HLOS.bin, but nothing change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so look likes it just ignores sim card. Try with another sim. Did you buy this phone from a telecom provider? It could happen that the flashing did some damage in the low-level firmware. If it's the case, you'd need the original provider's software. I don't really know if it can be the case with note 5s, but other models had this issue back then.
Without imei, no network will obviously come.
If it at least detects the sim, you can manually flash the imei. After that, it should work provided the phone detects the sims correctly.
flekkelek said:
so look likes it just ignores sim card. Try with another sim. Did you buy this phone from a telecom provider? It could happen that the flashing did some damage in the low-level firmware. If it's the case, you'd need the original provider's software. I don't really know if it can be the case with note 5s, but other models had this issue back then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sorry for long reply, i just surrender with this condition, i have done what you suggest but it still nothing changes. I bought from phone store, not black market
Itachi_konoha said:
Without imei, no network will obviously come.
If it at least detects the sim, you can manually flash the imei. After that, it should work provided the phone detects the sims correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Imei has been back, network hasnt
Suryo75 said:
Imei has been back, network hasnt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reflash the modem partition.
Itachi_konoha said:
Reflash the modem partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can i do it ? Are there any links to solve it ?
Suryo75 said:
How can i do it ? Are there any links to solve it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have the fastboot ROM, then reflash it.
If it doesn't work, then grab another ugglite from someone, install twrp, make a backup of the modem partition.
Then on your broken mobile, make a twrp backup of the modem.
Copy the files from working mobile twrp backup to your twrp backup and replace them.
On recovery, hit restore.
Itachi_konoha said:
If you have the fastboot ROM, then reflash it.
If it doesn't work, then grab another ugglite from someone, install twrp, make a backup of the modem partition.
Then on your broken mobile, make a twrp backup of the modem.
Copy the files from working mobile twrp backup to your twrp backup and replace them.
On recovery, hit restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, i'll try..hope it done
Suryo75 said:
Im sorry for long reply, i just surrender with this condition, i have done what you suggest but it still nothing changes. I bought from phone store, not black market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can flash a qcn file and restore your imei based on your box. Reply to me if the problem still persist, thankyou.
nayefhaidir said:
You can flash a qcn file and restore your imei based on your box. Reply to me if the problem still persist, thankyou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its done
Suryo75 said:
its done
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh nice then, hopefully it won't lose imei again:good:
Have the same issue in Mexico when upgrade to MIUI 10, tried some things and nothing works, so i went to my carrier provider, they check my number in their system and everything was fine, so they proceed to change my SIM Card and vuola, network returns and till now, no problems.
It was like the upgrade cause a failure in the Sim Card.
Is the first time something like this happen in my flashing life.
Hope it works for you too.
I have a problem with my Redmi note 5a lite. My baseband is: 7_GENNS_PACK-1.108 857.1.109523.1 (I doubt that this is not the correct baseband firmware), IMEI are OK but my phone is only emergence calls only.
Can any help me?
Thanks in advance.
First of all, i started being a newbie, i just wanted to install magisk for cam2api, but i messed up: i combined for error 2 different system (mine that was ios9 and ios8). So i tried to read more and more threads and it just got worse. to make the story short: i had to get to test-point and restore the phone with Xiaomi Mi Flash tool & an original rom stock.
So now that i can go inside the Android System and use the phone, my sim card is just not working, i checked and my imei was 0 and my IMEI SV also 0.
I tried deleting modemst 1 and 2, i tried to reflash the phone with another stock images, updating the phone via android (normal way), i tried to restore my imei with the QPST Dual Imei (and it worked but the IMEI SV still in 0). nothing is working Please i need help i think my efs folder it's corrupted but i'm not shure.
Also i don't have any EFS backup or System backup, nothing.
JoiaDG said:
First of all, i started being a newbie, i just wanted to install magisk for cam2api, but i messed up: i combined for error 2 different system (mine that was ios9 and ios8). So i tried to read more and more threads and it just got worse. to make the story short: i had to get to test-point and restore the phone with Xiaomi Mi Flash tool & an original rom stock.
So now that i can go inside the Android System and use the phone, my sim card is just not working, i checked and my imei was 0 and my IMEI SV also 0.
I tried deleting modemst 1 and 2, i tried to reflash the phone with another stock images, updating the phone via android (normal way), i tried to restore my imei with the QPST Dual Imei (and it worked but the IMEI SV still in 0). nothing is working Please i need help i think my efs folder it's corrupted but i'm not shure.
Also i don't have any EFS backup or System backup, nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m not sure what you mean by ios8 and ios9, maybe oreo and pie.
For the next time just so you know test point method is not recommended while you are not completely bricked (although is recommended out there without care), on a unlocked device most probably you won´t need it to solve this kind of issue, there are other resources to try previous to this stage.
I never had this kind of problem, you might try this https://zfirmware.com/how-to-repair-qualcomm-imei-via-qualcomm-write-imei-tool/
Sadly not working
SubwayChamp said:
I´m not sure what you mean by ios8 and ios9, maybe oreo and pie.
For the next time just so you know test point method is not recommended while you are not completely bricked (although is recommended out there without care), on a unlocked device most probably you won´t need it to solve this kind of issue, there are other resources to try previous to this stage.
I never had this kind of problem, you might try this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly, it didn't work. i was thinking if there was a way to do it with root
JoiaDG said:
Sadly, it didn't work. i was thinking if there was a way to do it with root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try rewriting the IMEI's from the box (I hope you still have the box and paperwork since there is the original IMEI's) with the Qualcomm IMEI Tool. Reflash full stock rom.
The tool is here: https://androidmtk.com/download-qualcomm-smartphone-write-imei-tool
If everything fails and your knowledge is not helping you to find a solution and you are still under warranty and respect the warranty for physical aspect of the device (no scuffs, no damage, no aftermarket replaced parts that may damaged warranty voids inside the phone) you can flash it stock, lock bootloader and file a warranty replacement as "damage from OTA". The service will replace your motherboard.
I need help
TheoXSD said:
Try rewriting the IMEI's from the box (I hope you still have the box and paperwork since there is the original IMEI's) with the Qualcomm IMEI Tool. Reflash full stock rom.
The tool is here:
If everything fails and your knowledge is not helping you to find a solution and you are still under warranty and respect the warranty for physical aspect of the device (no scuffs, no damage, no aftermarket replaced parts that may damaged warranty voids inside the phone) you can flash it stock, lock bootloader and file a warranty replacement as "damage from OTA". The service will replace your motherboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know i have to use that tool, but my device is not recognized by that app, i tried to install all the drivers, but nothing's working.
JoiaDG said:
Sadly, it didn't work. i was thinking if there was a way to do it with root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew that there is a method to restore IMEIs via adb but I don´t remember commands so I never need it. First I do before tinkering device is to backup IMEI/EFS/NVram.
I had a theory that years ago I proved, IMEI is not really lost but just overlapped so if you have some friend that can give you their backup this will recover the yours but won´t overwrite/replace the yours. Not sure if it works yet.
About the tool that I linked maybe you need to get it through either in fastboot or download mode, try both; I don´t think that detect it while device is on.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a2-lite/how-to/sim-network-solution-alternatively-t3914161 i fixed the phone with this tutorial
JoiaDG said:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a2-lite/how-to/sim-network-solution-alternatively-t3914161 i fixed the phone with this tutorial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this fixed my phone too, now I'm making backups
Hi, I'm begging you all for help.
Please, even if you don't know the answer, share any sort of advice.
I'm not a newbie (25+ years story of Unix/Reversing), but I know nothing about radio.
Here's a list of symptoms:
1) Sometimes the WIFI MAC Address comes up as 02:00:00:00:00:00 and IMEI isn't available, then they both magically come up (without rebooting, after the SIM Is read - see n. 2)
2) It keeps powering ON & OFF the SIM and switching between Connected , No Signal , Emergency. Sometimes taking the SIM out & back in helps. Selecting the Preferred Network Type from the modem debug screen keeps it connected for long periods.
3) It won't search for alternative networks to Register Manually
3) IMS Registration is showing as Not Registered always, even while it's connected: Voice + Data (?!?)
4) From the Debug Info only 1 cell appears as SRV = R+N and has a CELL ID, so it seems it connects only to 1 cell at a time.
I can't post screenshots as I lost my old username here, so I signed-up again.
Nothing works, it was a new phone. I wanna die.
Thank you all for your help.
Thanks.
I have problems with modem and camera wgen updating ta android 9.
I would recomend you to rollback to 10.2.1.0
I would use this method
1. Backup your media files to your computer
2. Unlock bootloader
3. Download fastboot china version of 10.2.1.0 and Flash it with mi flash (choose wipe but dont lock!)
4. Flash orange fox twrp with fastboot
5 wipe all partitions exvept internal storage with orangefox
6. Download 10.2.1.0 from xiaomi.eu and flash it with orangefox
Tell me is you want direct links to all files that you need.
If you still have problems after downgrading I can prove my persist and modem files
Good luck
eliaztheone said:
I would recomend you to rollback to 10.2.1.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@eliaztheone thank you for your reply and your offer about the files, I'll take it if necessary.
Just one question: won't that trigger Anti-Rollback ?
(I don't need to stay on MIUI: do I have other options?)
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
@eliaztheone thank you for your reply and your offer about the files, I'll take it if necessary.
Just one question: won't that trigger Anti-Rollback ?
(I don't need to stay on MIUI: do I have other options?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your anti rollback is already triggered on 4. Thats the arb value on 10.2 too. As long as you dont flash older miui 9 firmware you should be ok...
eliaztheone said:
Your anti rollback is already triggered on 4. Thats the arb value on 10.2 too. As long as you dont flash older miui 9 firmware you should be ok...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The roll-back went well but the phone is still unstable.
I'm not sure why: did the Persist get corrupted? Or the EFS partition? I have some backups but I'm not sure what to do.
Can you provide the files that you mentioned, or maybe some pointers?
What could be wrong with the phone?
Thanks a lot @eliaztheone
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
The roll-back went well but the phone is still unstable.
I'm not sure why: did the Persist get corrupted? Or the EFS partition? I have some backups but I'm not sure what to do.
Can you provide the files that you mentioned, or maybe some pointers?
What could be wrong with the phone?
Thanks a lot @eliaztheone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can give you my efs and persist backup if you want? Then you can use partitions backup and restorev from playstore.
You need to be rooted with magisk to restore
Are you on the xiaomi.eu version of 10.2.1.0 and is it the 8.1 version or 9.0?
eliaztheone said:
I can give you my efs and persist backup if you want? Then you can use partitions backup and restorev from playstore.
You need to be rooted with magisk to restore
Are you on the xiaomi.eu version of 10.2.1.0 and is it the 8.1 version or 9.0?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on Xiaomi.eu 10.2 with Android 9 now, as you suggested. Rooted & with Magisk.
I have backups of my old PERSIST from the China 9.x ROM. Should I flash that (or do I risk bricking) ?
I was reading on persist.img and I don't understand one thing: if it's different for every phone, why there's a persist.img in every Fastboot ROM ?
EDIT: I flashed my old Persists (tried various ones), and the problem.....persists! :') lol
So I'm back to my most recent Persist and still in need for help.
PS: if it helps for a diagnosis, any time the modem resets the SIM it dumps a lot of logs in /ramdump
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
I am on Xiaomi.eu 10.2 with Android 9 now, as you suggested. Rooted & with Magisk.
I have backups of my old PERSIST from the China 9.x ROM. Should I flash that (or do I risk bricking) ?
I was reading on persist.img and I don't understand one thing: if it's different for every phone, why there's a persist.img in every Fastboot ROM ?
EDIT: I flashed my old Persists (tried various ones), and the problem.....persists! :') lol
So I'm back to my most recent Persist and still in need for help.
PS: if it helps for a diagnosis, any time the modem resets the SIM it dumps a lot of logs in /ramdump
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I was not clear with my guide.. You needed to flash the android 8.1 version of 10.2.1.0 . I guess that wont help either but maybe so try it..
Try it and if it does not work. I will make backup of my persist and efs and modem and send them to you and after that u need to change to your imei numbers with qualcom app..
eliaztheone said:
Sorry I was not clear with my guide.. You needed to flash the android 8.1 version of 10.2.1.0 . I guess that wont help either but maybe so try it..
Try it and if it does not work. I will make backup of my persist and efs and modem and send them to you and after that u need to change to your imei numbers with qualcom app..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it following this guide to restore the Persist partition (https://forum.xda-developers.com/xi...guide-restoring-persist-partition-to-t3906424 - via Fastboot, not EDL) , and right after flashing the SIM was working fine on 4G/LTE and the phone didn't present any problems.
Then I opened up Google-Maps and gave it permission to read the GPS and it went crazy: not reading the SIM anymore, rebooting, etc. And turning GPS off now won't help. So I guess the problem is with the Modem and the fact that it connects to only 1 Cell - no idea why.
@eliaztheone
eliaztheone said:
Sorry I was not clear with my guide.. You needed to flash the android 8.1 version of 10.2.1.0 . I guess that wont help either but maybe so try it..
Try it and if it does not work. I will make backup of my persist and efs and modem and send them to you and after that u need to change to your imei numbers with qualcom app..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on 10.2.1.0 - Android 8.1 now. In addition to what you suggested I restored the persist.img via Fastboot (not EDL) following this guide on XDA .
Right after flashing the phone didn't present any problems (SIM/4G was working without hiccups). As I opened up Google-Maps and gave it permission to read the GPS it went crazy: not reading the SIM anymore, rebooting, etc. Turning GPS off now won't help, it constantly reboots - I have to use Airplane Mode.
So I guess the problem is still in the Modem. Maybe it's the fact that it connects to only 1 Cell, apparently.
@eliaztheone if you can provide the files I'll try one last time. Thank you.
I will upload them tonight hopefully. You need to be on 10.2.1.0 oreo xiaomi.eu version.
You also need to be rooted with magisk so you can restore them with partition backup and restore
---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------
Did you try to flash modem_fix_ysl.zip? It resets the modem.img and modemst1.img and modemst2.img
Take your time, thank you.
While inspecting the ramdump I noticed the following:
[ 21.864464] [c:1] [p:<003975, android.vending>] Fatal error on the modem.
[ 21.864522] [c:1] [p:<003975, android.vending>] modem subsystem failure reason: rflm_diag_error.cc:361:[email protected]_qlnk.cpp:1090 [9,3] RF stuck in QLINK start s.
[ 21.864530] [c:1] [p:<003975, android.vending>] subsys-restart: subsystem_restart_dev(): Restart sequence requested for modem, restart_level = RELATED.
There's many SELinux odd log entries too, not sure if that's normal. When I disabled SELinux from the terminal the 4G immediately picked up...totally weird
eliaztheone said:
[/COLOR]Did you try to flash modem_fix_ysl.zip? It resets the modem.img and modemst1.img and modemst2.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try to flash it, thank you.
I am on 10.2.1.0 oreo xiaomi.eu. Do you think it makes sense to try a custom ROM ?
Thank you.
EDIT:
- I flashed modem_fix_ysl.zip but it didn't have any effect.
- I find the ramdumps from the china ROM much cleaner and errorless than the Xiaomi.eu ROM, just saying
I have sent you a pm
Have you guys found a solution? I have the exactly same problem on Mi Max 3 4/64Gb version. I'm on MIUI Global Stable 10.3.5.0. I was on China stable and had issues,so i flashed Global Stable fastboot rom using Mi Flash Tool(flash all option),and It doesn't solve the problem.I have unlocked bootloader,and no previous system backup.
Also i tried flashing NON-HLOS.bin file from Global Stable fastboot ROM using command : fastboot flash modem NON-HLOS.bin
Also i tried something that worked on my old redmi 4,after NON-HLOS.bin flash,executed fastboot commands :
fastboot erase modemst1 and modemst2,but no luck because of "partition is write protected" error.
Have you found what's the cause of this problem?Is it hardware?Is it corrupted modem files?Will custom rom solve it? Please, any help,any suggestion will be appreciated. I'll try everything to fix it. Thank you in advance.
@ghost baby
I tried the following:
- reflashing Global ROM
- flashing Xiaomi.eu ROM as per instructions of of Eliaztheone
- restoring a backup of old China ROM
- reflashing China ROM
- analyzing the ramdumps (memory dumps & system/radio-modem logs)
- EDL flashing (with `fastboot oem edl` - not with the deep-flash cable)
All the reflashes included overwriting the EFS (modemst1/2) & PERSIST partitions, automatically (in bulk) or manually, taken from various sources including those that Eliaztheone kindly sent to me. The EDL flashing didn't work because I had no authorization on my Xiaomi account (I've tried all combinations of SDR programmers & old versions of MiFlash - none works) so I've then tried to get a remote authorization, also without success: the guy from UNBRICK.RU told me that Xiaomi revoked all authorizations lately to push out of business the remote-auth-flashers.
From my understanding of the ramdumps the problem seems to be an internal modem fault. Since ARB wasn't triggered when I rolled back to China ROM, I suspect that the fault is a hardware (or very low-level SW) software in the radio modem, and so it can be maybe fixed only by EDL flashing.
That's why I resorted to finding a local authorized service center this week. But I have to see how much money they ask me: if they ask too much I might as well buy a new OPPO or REALME phone, which are cheap & open (at least more than ****ty Xiaomi). If the service center pisses me off you'll see the result in the news.
Support the right to repair movement.
I hope this helps.
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
@ghost baby
I tried the following:
- reflashing Global ROM
- flashing Xiaomi.eu ROM as per instructions of of Eliaztheone
- restoring a backup of old China ROM
- reflashing China ROM
- analyzing the ramdumps (memory dumps & system/radio-modem logs)
- EDL flashing (with `fastboot oem edl` - not with the deep-flash cable)
All the reflashes included overwriting the EFS (modemst1/2) & PERSIST partitions, automatically (in bulk) or manually, taken from various sources including those that Eliaztheone kindly sent to me. The EDL flashing didn't work because I had no authorization on my Xiaomi account (I've tried all combinations of SDR programmers & old versions of MiFlash - none works) so I've then tried to get a remote authorization, also without success: the guy from UNBRICK.RU told me that Xiaomi revoked all authorizations lately to push out of business the remote-auth-flashers.
From my understanding of the ramdumps the problem seems to be an internal modem fault. Since ARB wasn't triggered when I rolled back to China ROM, I suspect that the fault is a hardware (or very low-level SW) software in the radio modem, and so it can be maybe fixed only by EDL flashing.
That's why I resorted to finding a local authorized service center this week. But I have to see how much money they ask me: if they ask too much I might as well buy a new OPPO or REALME phone, which are cheap & open (at least more than ****ty Xiaomi). If the service center pisses me off you'll see the result in the news.
Support the right to repair movement.
I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you man, I'll try everything you said tommorow. The device hardware is awesome,and i really want to support xiaomi,only if they had solution for this problem. Also i think keeping ARB on unlocked bootloader is a bad decision,it really makes this whole process harder.
I'm hoping you get you phone fixed and looking forward to see how this will end.
Thanks for helping me man.
(Sorry for bad English)
---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------
Maybe someone's QCN file can help us?
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
@ghost baby
I tried the following:
- reflashing Global ROM
- flashing Xiaomi.eu ROM as per instructions of of Eliaztheone
- restoring a backup of old China ROM
- reflashing China ROM
- analyzing the ramdumps (memory dumps & system/radio-modem logs)
- EDL flashing (with `fastboot oem edl` - not with the deep-flash cable)
All the reflashes included overwriting the EFS (modemst1/2) & PERSIST partitions, automatically (in bulk) or manually, taken from various sources including those that Eliaztheone kindly sent to me. The EDL flashing didn't work because I had no authorization on my Xiaomi account (I've tried all combinations of SDR programmers & old versions of MiFlash - none works) so I've then tried to get a remote authorization, also without success: the guy from UNBRICK.RU told me that Xiaomi revoked all authorizations lately to push out of business the remote-auth-flashers.
From my understanding of the ramdumps the problem seems to be an internal modem fault. Since ARB wasn't triggered when I rolled back to China ROM, I suspect that the fault is a hardware (or very low-level SW) software in the radio modem, and so it can be maybe fixed only by EDL flashing.
That's why I resorted to finding a local authorized service center this week. But I have to see how much money they ask me: if they ask too much I might as well buy a new OPPO or REALME phone, which are cheap & open (at least more than ****ty Xiaomi). If the service center pisses me off you'll see the result in the news.
Support the right to repair movement.
I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe someone's QCN file can help us?[/QUOTE]
All authorizations has been locked down for a while now, learned that the hard way during in the early days of ARB4 and i tried to flash a stable rom with a lower ARB number and my phone bricked. IThen i found someone to flash a beta rom by remote with authroization; costed me 15 USD. EDL flash was the only way if you still have fastboot. I worked with the service guy because he also wants to figure out the problem also. After bricking my device 4 times, I got the right recovery to use and then TWRP Recovery worked for the 4GB version. I got the 6GB version also and the people who sold me the phone had already unlocked the bootloader, I had to double check to see using command prompt. The i flashed the Recovery i was given to by a user on the AOSiP thread, thinks its Page 7, its a TWRP CN Recovery.. and it worked in both devices.
@Wmateria can you give me the contact of this person who gave you the remote Auth ?
I just phoned Xiaomi and they told me that Xiaomi's warranty is only valid at national level (read: each european country collects phones sold on its territory, and sends them to specific labs).
Wmateria said:
Maybe someone's QCN file can help us?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The QCN won't help cause we can't access EDL anyway even via QFIL.
If anyone has a contact for remote Auth, I'd appreciate if he/she could share it.
Thanks.
DoYouWantFriesWithThat said:
@Wmateria can you give me the contact of this person who gave you the remote Auth ?
I just phoned Xiaomi and they told me that Xiaomi's warranty is only valid at national level (read: each european country collects phones sold on its territory, and sends them to specific labs).
The QCN won't help cause we can't access EDL anyway even via QFIL.
If anyone has a contact for remote Auth, I'd appreciate if he/she could share it.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found some article that shows how to flash QCN file form DIAG mode,and how to enter that mode. I'll try and keep you updated.
Wmateria said:
Maybe someone's QCN file can help us?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All authorizations has been locked down for a while now, learned that the hard way during in the early days of ARB4 and i tried to flash a stable rom with a lower ARB number and my phone bricked. IThen i found someone to flash a beta rom by remote with authroization; costed me 15 USD. EDL flash was the only way if you still have fastboot. I worked with the service guy because he also wants to figure out the problem also. After bricking my device 4 times, I got the right recovery to use and then TWRP Recovery worked for the 4GB version. I got the 6GB version also and the people who sold me the phone had already unlocked the bootloader, I had to double check to see using command prompt. The i flashed the Recovery i was given to by a user on the AOSiP thread, thinks its Page 7, its a TWRP CN Recovery.. and it worked in both devices.[/QUOTE]
Did EDL flash solved the problem?
Just got a Redmi Note 8 Pro with Global ROM and discovered that call recording won't work due to Google/Android Pie limitations.
After some searching, I found (on this forum) that the Indonesia ROM supports call recording on this phone.
Here are my questions:
1. Will burning a different ROM affect my warranty?
2. Will I lose any functionality by switching from Global to Indonesia ROM, and if so, what? Specifically, will NFC functionality be affected?
3. If I ever do a factory reset, will the phone revert to Global ROM?
4. I found the Indonesia ROM files here. There are three files called Recovery, OTA, and Fastboot. Do I need them all? If so, do they need to be burned in any specific order?
5. Where can I find complete instructions for burning the Indonesia ROM? I am new to Xiaomi, and the last time I burned a ROM to a phone was 5 years ago (Samsung); I don't remember anything, so I'd like instructions that assume nothing and don't skip any steps (instructions for intelligent dummies). I found these instructions for installing TWRP, but there's nothing about what to do next, and there's a list of pre-requisites with no explanations (Unlocked Bootloader, Phone Drivers, ADB and Fastboot Drivers), making the instructions insufficient for a noob like me.
Thanks much.
yossidme said:
Just got a Redmi Note 8 Pro with Global ROM and discovered that call recording won't work due to Google/Android Pie limitations.
After some searching, I found (on this forum) that the Indonesia ROM supports call recording on this phone.
Here are my questions:
1. Will burning a different ROM affect my warranty?
2. Will I lose any functionality by switching from Global to Indonesia ROM, and if so, what? Specifically, will NFC functionality be affected?
3. If I ever do a factory reset, will the phone revert to Global ROM?
4. I found the Indonesia ROM files here. There are three files called Recovery, OTA, and Fastboot. Do I need them all? If so, do they need to be burned in any specific order?
5. Where can I find complete instructions for burning the Indonesia ROM? I am new to Xiaomi, and the last time I burned a ROM to a phone was 5 years ago (Samsung); I don't remember anything, so I'd like instructions that assume nothing and don't skip any steps (instructions for intelligent dummies). I found these instructions for installing TWRP, but there's nothing about what to do next, and there's a list of pre-requisites with no explanations (Unlocked Bootloader, Phone Drivers, ADB and Fastboot Drivers), making the instructions insufficient for a noob like me.
Thanks much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Before going any further you first need to make sure what region is your phone. Is it a Chinese phone (bought from AliExpress for example) or a real Global phone (bought from a local store/official retail). Because you could very well own a Chinese phone shipped with a Global Rom flashed on it and this could result in some problems for you in terms of what you can do with it and how you can do it.
If you bought/received a phone with already unlocked bootloader, you should return it.
Unlocking bootloader should only be done by you when you need it.
1. Technically unlocking bootloader, ESSENTIAL step prior flashing anything, void your warranty.
However and that's what is interesting, if at some point you decide to flash back your original region rom (here Global) and lock back bootloader, none will know but Xiaomi servers you once unlocked this device certainly not a local reseller. So in term of warranty you should be safe, that is of course unless you brick your phone doing stuff you were not supposed to do with a locked bootloader if you are following.
2. If not mistaking, I think you loose NFC. Indian phones for sure do not have NFC at all, for their version, the chip was replaced with a 2nd SIM card tray (not shared). Not sure if you read the functionality afterward using rooted tricks.
3. No that does not work this way. When you are running a Rom, any version, if you factory reset that room, you just return to installation screen of that given Rom.
To return to Global Rom, you will need to reflash that Global Rom using the same method you did successfully flashing the Indonesian Rom (or any other rom) for example.
Would be wise to first download the exact version of the Rom you are currently using on your phone for archives purpose (BURN IT on good quality medias!) to revert back to it when/if needed. You can also archives OTA updates of that version you may not have taken yet to apply them manually if you ever revert back to that Global Rom and want to.
4. Different versions depends on what you are doing. In your case Fastboot version is what you need at the moment. You can find all different kind of versions of Roms for your RN8PRO on that site
As for the way to flash them, order and everything, you will need to look for guides online,
I dont think any order matters, just make sure to flash them all before rebooting disconnecting device. But if you are unsure of what you are doing, you'd be probably best using a tool such as MiFlash.
5. Here you can find one from the MIUI community website guiding you through the use of MiFlash to flash a stock Rom on your device.
Just note you do not have to use any tools to flash the .images of all partitions, you can easily doing it from command line using fastboot flash command one after an other.
Also note that installing TWRP is usually not needed to flash stock Roms (unlike flashing custom roms). Trying to mess up with the recovery partition is actually what seem to brick most of the devices.
However please note UNLOCKING your BOOTLOADER is MENDATORY.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
doesnt matter if you switch to any rom variant .i have switched mine to indonesian ,europe and indian and alll worked fine execpt indian version felt a bit laggy .just download the fastboot version of the rom and flash it through mi flash tool xiaomiflash .your bootloader needs to be unlocked and dont forget to check cleann all button in mi flash and dont check clean and lock
I have got global version and changed imei with unlocked bootloader. Can i flash indonesian rom without lose f my imei?
Thanks in advance for your answers
Muad.Dib,
Thanks for your detailed reply.
If I understand correctly, unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty just the same as rooting the phone, so if all I want is to get call recording, I may as well just root the phone and save the bother of flashing a different ROM.
Does that make sense to you, or do you see any advantage to flashing a different stock ROM instead of just rooting the phone? From past experience I've seen that rooting has additional benefits anyway.
BTW, I bought my phone on Banggood. It was advertised as Global ROM, and that appears to be what it has. As soon as I turned the phone on it updated to MIUI Global 11.0.2.1; I don't know what version it was before the update.
Muad.Dib said:
Hey,
Before going any further you first need to make sure what region is your phone. Is it a Chinese phone (bought from AliExpress for example) or a real Global phone (bought from a local store/official retail). Because you could very well own a Chinese phone shipped with a Global Rom flashed on it and this could result in some problems for you in terms of what you can do with it and how you can do it.
If you bought/received a phone with already unlocked bootloader, you should return it.
Unlocking bootloader should only be done by you when you need it.
1. Technically unlocking bootloader, ESSENTIAL step prior flashing anything, void your warranty.
However and that's what is interesting, if at some point you decide to flash back your original region rom (here Global) and lock back bootloader, none will know but Xiaomi servers you once unlocked this device certainly not a local reseller. So in term of warranty you should be safe, that is of course unless you brick your phone doing stuff you were not supposed to do with a locked bootloader if you are following.
2. If not mistaking, I think you loose NFC. Indian phones for sure do not have NFC at all, for their version, the chip was replaced with a 2nd SIM card tray (not shared). Not sure if you read the functionality afterward using rooted tricks.
3. No that does not work this way. When you are running a Rom, any version, if you factory reset that room, you just return to installation screen of that given Rom.
To return to Global Rom, you will need to reflash that Global Rom using the same method you did successfully flashing the Indonesian Rom (or any other rom) for example.
Would be wise to first download the exact version of the Rom you are currently using on your phone for archives purpose (BURN IT on good quality medias!) to revert back to it when/if needed. You can also archives OTA updates of that version you may not have taken yet to apply them manually if you ever revert back to that Global Rom and want to.
4. Different versions depends on what you are doing. In your case Fastboot version is what you need at the moment. You can find all different kind of versions of Roms for your RN8PRO on that site
As for the way to flash them, order and everything, you will need to look for guides online,
I dont think any order matters, just make sure to flash them all before rebooting disconnecting device. But if you are unsure of what you are doing, you'd be probably best using a tool such as MiFlash.
5. Here you can find one from the MIUI community website guiding you through the use of MiFlash to flash a stock Rom on your device.
Just note you do not have to use any tools to flash the .images of all partitions, you can easily doing it from command line using fastboot flash command one after an other.
Also note that installing TWRP is usually not needed to flash stock Roms (unlike flashing custom roms). Trying to mess up with the recovery partition is actually what seem to brick most of the devices.
However please note UNLOCKING your BOOTLOADER is MENDATORY.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you check if NFC works with Indonesian ROM?
maanni said:
doesnt matter if you switch to any rom variant .i have switched mine to indonesian ,europe and indian and alll worked fine execpt indian version felt a bit laggy .just download the fastboot version of the rom and flash it through mi flash tool xiaomiflash .your bootloader needs to be unlocked and dont forget to check cleann all button in mi flash and dont check clean and lock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yossidme said:
Muad.Dib,
Thanks for your detailed reply.
If I understand correctly, unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty just the same as rooting the phone, so if all I want is to get call recording, I may as well just root the phone and save the bother of flashing a different ROM.
Does that make sense to you, or do you see any advantage to flashing a different stock ROM instead of just rooting the phone? From past experience I've seen that rooting has additional benefits anyway.
BTW, I bought my phone on Banggood. It was advertised as Global ROM, and that appears to be what it has. As soon as I turned the phone on it updated to MIUI Global 11.0.2.1; I don't know what version it was before the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome, I am happy if I was useful to you in any kind of ways.
Well yes and no. Yes apparently you 'could' achieve call recording when rooted (yet I still fail doing so even if I installed the default MUI apps module I got from Telegram group. The setting to automatic recording is set to on yes, but I dont see recordings in the supposed destination folder nor I can see a simple button to record any voicecall I used to have on older versions of Android. Me failing to make it work - I did not try very hard to be honest - does not mean you cannot find someone who succeeded into doing so in that telegram group for RN8PRO).
That said it would not be a 'native' solution, just a patch/workaround. If it works well great, if not, well...
On an other hand by flashing to a Rom which does support it natively, well you are covered for the use you need.
So the advantage I see (with the included disadvantages) is better support for the function which is not supported for privacy reasons en Glob/EU market.
Does that come at a price?
Probably.
For example are you ready to trade off NFC for native call recording support? That may be a choice you have to make in the end. Again that said, if you root your phone on that new Rom, install NFC drivers manually as root (I see no reasons why that would not be possible after all) you may be able to patch NFC on that other Rom since unlike Indonesians market phone, you do have NFC hardware.
For example, myself, I wish I could have made that kind of bargain/trade off, giving up that NFC feature I have no need for, to get 8GB or Ram + 2x Sims + SD and not an hybrid tray. Unfortunately that's not the kind of trade I could make here in EU unless I would have ordered directly from Amazon.in (assuming that would have been possible) or third party website, but that was not possible for warranty reasons among other things.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
yossidme said:
Did you check if NFC works with Indonesian ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does as it is officially available in every variant expect indian variant.
UPDATE:
I finally had the time to test the MIUI-default-apps Magisk module available for download on Telegram group, originally made for MIUI 11.0.1.0, and it works properly on MIUI 11.0.2.0 EEA. Does not require changing Rom.
Hope this helps.
Well, I have finally started the process, but got stymied by the Bootloader Unlock tool (Couldn't unlock. Please unlock 168 hours later.). Quite frustrating. I see that a lot of people have this problem and had to try again more than once, waiting a week between attempts.
Is there a workaround or do I just have to wait a week and hope for the best?
Also, assuming all goes well and I eventually manage to unlock the bootloader and flash the Indonesia ROM, do I use the same tool to re-lock the bootloader (in order to restore the security of the phone)?
And if I want to unlock again in the future, will I again possibly get the "wait and try again next week" message, or does that only happen the first time?
Thanks.
Muad.Dib said:
UPDATE:
I finally had the time to test the MIUI-default-apps Magisk module available for download on Telegram group, originally made for MIUI 11.0.1.0, and it works properly on MIUI 11.0.2.0 EEA. Does not require changing Rom.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yossidme said:
Well, I have finally started the process, but got stymied by the Bootloader Unlock tool (Couldn't unlock. Please unlock 168 hours later.). Quite frustrating. I see that a lot of people have this problem and had to try again more than once, waiting a week between attempts.
Is there a workaround or do I just have to wait a week and hope for the best?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No workaround, you just have to wait (and yes I know how freaking frustrating it was for me...). You can even start meditation classes meanwhile it helps
yossidme said:
Also, assuming all goes well and I eventually manage to unlock the bootloader and flash the Indonesia ROM, do I use the same tool to re-lock the bootloader (in order to restore the security of the phone)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on what your the flavor of the phone you got. You may want to have a look at that other thread Relock bootloader after flashing ROM Indonesia where we actually covered this exact subject
The good thing about that 7 days wait period is you can gather all the intel you need to be 100% ready when the time come to seriously mess up with things.
So you know, once your bootloader is unlocked, first thing you will want to do BEFORE anything else, is blow off that security which needed Auth Account to unbrick account (ONLY WORKS FOR PIE, ANDROID 9 MIUI VERSION BEWARE).
All information is here: [GUIDE][INFO][PSA] Redmi Note 8 Pro - Megathread
yossidme said:
And if I want to unlock again in the future, will I again possibly get the "wait and try again next week" message, or does that only happen the first time?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The waiting time is for one time only (THANKS GOD!).
So if you relock, beside having to get your hands on the unlock tool once again and have added the same infos as for the first time in the phone, you will be able to unlock right away.
That's at least a good news
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Muad.Dib said:
UPDATE:
I finally had the time to test the MIUI-default-apps Magisk module available for download on Telegram group, originally made for MIUI 11.0.1.0, and it works properly on MIUI 11.0.2.0 EEA. Does not require changing Rom.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My friend,
Would you like be so kind and share that magisk module with others or maybe just indicate the spot where I can get it? I would love to try this out. THX
kamyk70 said:
My friend,
Would you like be so kind and share that magisk module with others or maybe just indicate the spot where I can get it? I would love to try this out. THX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes of course.
It is a module you can find on the Telegram group called "Redmi Note 8 Pro | OFFICIAL".
Like me you will have to go in there even if you do not use Telegram.
Once there and you got the /notes it is called the default apps.
I cannot share it myself here because I am not the developer of that module, as you can understand that's against forums policies.
All I can tell you is it works correctly on EEA MIUI 11.0.2.0.
Good luck!
Hope this helps.
Muad.Dib said:
Yes of course.
It is a module you can find on the Telegram group called "Redmi Note 8 Pro | OFFICIAL".
Like me you will have to go in there even if you do not use Telegram.
Once there and you got the /notes it is called the default apps.
I cannot share it myself here because I am not the developer of that module, as you can understand that's against forums policies.
All I can tell you is it works correctly on EEA MIUI 11.0.2.0.
Good luck!
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man, I got it! ?
I have disovered that there are different NGC protocols and that my Redmi Note 8 Pro does not read NFC cards of some protocols. I'm wondering if it might not be a driver issue. where would I look for NFC drivers?
Thanks
Muad.Dib said:
For example are you ready to trade off NFC for native call recording support? That may be a choice you have to make in the end. Again that said, if you root your phone on that new Rom, install NFC drivers manually as root (I see no reasons why that would not be possible after all) you may be able to patch NFC on that other Rom since unlike Indonesians market phone, you do have NFC hardware.
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kamyk70 said:
Thanks man, I got it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are much welcome, glad I could help
Regards
---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------
yossidme said:
I have disovered that there are different NGC protocols and that my Redmi Note 8 Pro does not read NFC cards of some protocols. I'm wondering if it might not be a driver issue. where would I look for NFC drivers?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly I have no idea. I think you should make a new thread about this to get more visibility and probably more answers from people who actually knows the answer.
Hope this help.
Regards.
Muad.Dib said:
UPDATE:
I finally had the time to test the MIUI-default-apps Magisk module available for download on Telegram group, originally made for MIUI 11.0.1.0, and it works properly on MIUI 11.0.2.0 EEA. Does not require changing Rom.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi can you share more details???IS IT SAFE?? I want miui message and call apps not Google's one... How can i have them without changing ROM to Indonesian??? Now i have global ROM.
yossidme said:
Did you check if NFC works with Indonesian ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup it is working perfectly fine on indonesian rom as i am still using it
Alisoofi said:
Hi can you share more details???IS IT SAFE?? I want miui message and call apps not Google's one... How can i have them without changing ROM to Indonesian??? Now i have global ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Sorry was AFK for a while. In case you still need answer, going to reply just in case.
Well there is not much to add, you simply install the module from within Magisk once it installed, you reboot, and it works out of the box, you go in the settings and you set it as you like.
Good luck!
Do i need to root before installing it ?
Do i need to root before installing it ?