Develop Bugs

Strongly thinking about buying the tilt2

I've been on some other forums wondering what phone to buy, and it seems the tilt2 is the best for me. That being said, I'm not totally sold on it. For you people who've had it long enough, would you recommend it? I'm committed to learning about the best ROM to install over it, so I'm going to try to get away from as many freezes as possible. Of course, I was recommended to *this* wonderful site!
Does anyone have a good place to start for learning on here? There's a freakton of information on here, and I have no problem reading through lots of info, but I don't know where to start!
I would be much appreciative. Thanks!

Welcome to forums
Yes!
Go and get it!!
Rhodium is the best hardware keyboard device to this date!
I´m very happy with mine

This is my 3rd HTC device. With my big fingers, a hardware keyboard is a MUST. The Tilt had a good keyboard, the Fuze had a better keyboard, the Tilt2 has the best keyboard for someone like me. And now that I have to have bifocal glasses , the larger screen is MUCH appreciated.

I say get it as well. I had the Fuze, AT&T's version of the original Touch Pro, for a week and hated it. I just got a Tilt 2 and it's a much better device. I've been using it for a few days and haven't noticed any freezing or bad lag. I've loaded a few programs and done a few registry tweaks and so far I've been very happy with the results. Slingplayer Mobile looks great on this device and I get GPS locks in seconds in both Google Maps and Bing Mobile. The touch screen is very responsive and TouchFlo 3D has really improved in a year. I noticed some complaints about the Widcomm Bluetooth stack but the phone paired right away with my Motorola headset and the handsfree system in my Acura RL and has worked flawlessly with both.
I plan on deleting as many of the stock bloatware programs as I can to free up some memory, but so far the stock AT&T ROM has been fine. The keyboard is awesome - I don't mind having the symbols in the top row as I seem to use them more when typing emails. This is a really nice device.

So what's the favorite ROM around here? Might be a week (or a few evne) before I pick this up, and I want to make sure I have my technology down so I don't keep on flashing.
I have a Motorola Q9h at the moment.... it's what got me hooked on windows mobile. I couldn't believe that I could actually edit the registry! So yeah, I'm all about tweaks, but I remember my first couple weeks and I was all over the place trying to find all the tweaks I needed.
I'm hoping to go into this next move prepared.

My advice is this - make sure you try the phone out first. Try to have a conversation in a moderately noisy environment and see if you can hear the other person, even with the volume on full.
Loud enough for you? If so, then get the phone. Everything else about it is awesome.
If not loud enough, forget it, find a different phone made by a company who doesn't assume all their customers have bionic ears. It will drive you crazy and frustrate you every phone call, and there is no fix.

The best rom for me which is closest to stock as possible is here. I currently have been running for about a month and this is stable and great. Very close to the ATT stock rom.

It's a terrific phone, I highly recommend it. The keyboard is the best I've ever used, the screen is gorgeous, and the build quality is fantastic. If you're looking to start somewhere, I recommend the following links: XDA-Developers Wiki article on the Rhodium and Flashing your first Rhodium ROM. Of all the places to start, those are probably best. The stickies at the top of the forums are also good to read, as they often contain important information.
Also, as many will tell you, there is no best ROM. I personally like EnergyROM Leo for my purposes, but other ROMs may work best for what you prefer to do with your Rhodium. I would recommend looking in peoples' signatures and seeing what ROMs people are using, or better yet, flash them all and see what works for you. Now that that's out of the way, welcome to XDA-Developers!

Perfect Dave!! Thanks a ton!
If I could rep you guys on these boards I would!

Phrozt said:
Perfect Dave!! Thanks a ton!
If I could rep you guys on these boards I would!
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I'm happy I could help

DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
It's a terrific phone, I highly recommend it. The keyboard is the best I've ever used, the screen is gorgeous, and the build quality is fantastic. If you're looking to start somewhere, I recommend the following links: XDA-Developers Wiki article on the Rhodium and Flashing your first Rhodium ROM. Of all the places to start, those are probably best. The stickies at the top of the forums are also good to read, as they often contain important information.
Also, as many will tell you, there is no best ROM. I personally like EnergyROM Leo for my purposes, but other ROMs may work best for what you prefer to do with your Rhodium. I would recommend looking in peoples' signatures and seeing what ROMs people are using, or better yet, flash them all and see what works for you. Now that that's out of the way, welcome to XDA-Developers!
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Unless he's having specific issues or a WM veteran I don't see why you'd point him to how to flash a ROM first thing... Probably let him use the device out-of-box for a bit.

khaytsus said:
Unless he's having specific issues or a WM veteran I don't see why you'd point him to how to flash a ROM first thing... Probably let him use the device out-of-box for a bit.
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The OP was interested in information concerning cooked ROMs, and where a good place to start would be. I figured that they'd want to know the process of installing one since they were inquiring about which one they should flash, and I thought that link would be a good place to start (when concerning ROMs). It's not like they have to flash one just because I linked there, and if they'd seen the instructions already there's no harm, so I thought I was being helpful by posting a useful related link. IMO there's nothing wrong with using a device out of the box (I did for ~1 year), but the OP requested more info on ROMs and I simply gave it to them.

I've had my Tilt 2, for 2 weeks.
And I LOVE IT !!!
And i'm already a flashing whore ..........

khaytsus said:
Unless he's having specific issues or a WM veteran I don't see why you'd point him to how to flash a ROM first thing... Probably let him use the device out-of-box for a bit.
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Yeah, I've been using WM for 2 years now on my motorola q9h. The tweaking aspect is the reason I *want* to stay w/WM... and I was definitely looking for exactly what dave posted!
Also, as I indicated in a few posts, I want to know as much as I can before actually getting the phone so I can flash it, tweak it, set it up how I want it, and then not touch it so that I can keep a stable environment. I don't want to lose my messages and things...
69Pwned said:
And i'm already a flashing whore ..........
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Let's leave your mom out of this
(I'm sorry, I have a chronic condition involving mom jokes)

well.... I just picked up the tilt 2 . it's pretty cool so far but I do notice all the lag people have been talking about... will prolly just take some getting used to.

My advice would be to try and get the out-of-the-box system working, install a few apps / shells / tweaks, figure out what's important to you and then flash. Pretty much any stock rom will be lag-free or lag-minimal. There's a lot of good ROMs / chefs out there. Flashing several will definitely whet your appetite.
~Eric

After owning this thing for awhile.. good LORD does it freeze up a lot :/. I mean, I get used to it and "deal" with it, but it becomes painfull noticeable when my friend has his droid out.
Maybe it's time to start looking into those homebrews for better efficiency, heh.

Phrozt said:
After owning this thing for awhile.. good LORD does it freeze up a lot :/. I mean, I get used to it and "deal" with it, but it becomes painfull noticeable when my friend has his droid out.
Maybe it's time to start looking into those homebrews for better efficiency, heh.
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I rarely reset my phone for freezing issues, especially on sense 2.1 ROMs. Sense 2.5 ROMs maybe once a week at most. At the end of the day to get a phone that more closely functions how you want it to, a custom ROM is the way to go.
I will say the most stable release I ever used was the stock VZW 6.1 TF3D 2.0. I could run that thing for weeks and still idle at 49%.

Phrozt said:
After owning this thing for awhile.. good LORD does it freeze up a lot :/. I mean, I get used to it and "deal" with it, but it becomes painfull noticeable when my friend has his droid out.
Maybe it's time to start looking into those homebrews for better efficiency, heh.
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There's a couple of things that should be done with all new TP2's to help reduce memory hogging and help performance in general:
First, run the first two cabs below. One switches off push internet for a big resource savings. The other one switches on dynamic memory allocation, which does a much better job of freeing up memory when apps aren't using it.
Next, run the Advanced Config cab below...it's a utility that gives you access to all sorts of deeper-level settings in the phone. When you run it, navigate to the "power management" section, and make the first 7 entries there set to "enabled (advised)"
Do a soft-reset after these, and you should see a significant reduction in memory use and lock-ups.
Lastly, use the Crud Scraper attached below...copy it to your SD card and just run the .exe from there (not your PC). It allows you to uninstall a fair amount of the bloat AT&T was generous enough to include on the phone

Some pretty good advice in this thread for new users. I've been playing with WM since well before it was WM and I've had an overwhelmingly positive experience with it, that is until i moved from the kaiser to the tilt2. I was ready to chunk it and get something else but decided to flash a few roms first. Not expecting much i was surprised by the significant performance improvements and overall appeal the device gained over the stock At&t rom.
My advice, I woudl only try "fixing" the issues with teh stock rom if you are absolutley stuck with it. if you are not stuck using the AT&T rom for some reason flash one, there are several good ones out there and all of them seem to be an improvement over the At&t rom in terms of stability and performance.

[Q] What ROM To Use?

I am ready to dive in with the Unrevoked3 method to root my Desire, I take it I will then be able to load a custom ROM, however I'm a little overwhelmed by the choices. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere or can someone make any suggestions? I'm after stability and reliability although I am interested in what the whole ROM scene has to offer.
I presume that all my paid apps will still work as well?

i would stick to the rom you are using because if you have to ask that question, you haven't done enough research, if there was a single answer to what rom to use, then there wouldn't be so many around
so the final answer is, stick to the stock froyo that you've got already, there's nothing to be gained from other roms considering you didn't specify what it is you were looking for

Moved to Q&A as not development

bamboo12 said:
you haven't done enough research .. you didn't specify what it is you were looking for
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I thought I said I'm after stability and reliability, and also app2sd+ in particular. Does that help?
Yes I am doing research, this question is part of the 'research' process. Thanks for your help.

DroidBois said:
I thought I said I'm after stability and reliability, and also app2sd+ in particular. Does that help?
Yes I am doing research, this question is part of the 'research' process. Thanks for your help.
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Your way of research really puzzles me looking at the bold parts in your OP below.
I take it I will then be able to load a custom ROM, however I'm a little overwhelmed by the choices. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere or can someone make any suggestions? I'm after stability and reliability although
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- Yes, you should be able to flash a custom rom, if you can follow the instructions.
- There is no comprehensive list, the number of rom's and the changes are to large to keep it up to date, or do you offer to create one
- suggestions will tell you to use rom a, b, s, or z, depending on the users preferences. The only thing you can do is to read the rom description, and start skimming and following the rom's which description you liked.
A thing you left out, and what is normally mentioned in a question like this, do you prefer sense or non-sense?
To finish: I use LeeDroiD V2.1 and I am happy with it, it's stable / reliable, and it's Sense based.
Now just wait for the OD, DeFrost, Pays, Cyanogen (just some examples) and other rom users to give there opinion,
and then decide

^^ pretty much what he said!!
No one can tell you what to use, only give their opinions. Ultimately you'll have to read the threads and just try the ROMs until you find one you're happy with. I've gone back to stock as it does what I need it to

i just love when dudes get all condescending as if they were never overwhelmed when they first started out. first they yell at you and infer that you're an idiot and then 4 posts later, they wind up actually helping.
i guess it's like hazing for nerds.
seriously though, i'm gonna answer all your questions right here and now:
go with CM6. then download another one and try it. then download another one and try it. and then... come back here and tell us what your opinion is. you know, pay it forward and don't become one of those condescending dorks after you have figured it all out.
that is all. i'm going bowling with your father...

anotherdroid said:
i just love when dudes get all condescending as if they were never overwhelmed when they first started out. first they yell at you and infer that you're an idiot and then 4 posts later, they wind up actually helping.
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Well, when you don't get out much and you don't have many friends.. We should be more sympathetic to 'special needs' people.
Anyway, I'm on AuraxTsense now (check my sig for full details). I like the concept of undervolting for extended battery life, however before I dive in to ROMs, what can cause damage? I will avoid overclocking ROMs for that reason, anything else to watch out for?
What's the advantage of Cyanogen over others? I also read that Modaco ROMs are designed with stability in mind.
Is there any way to back up settings to restore when switching ROMs? Or should I just back each one up with all my settings and use that?

In the last week or so I've tried at least
- Cyanogen
- PirateRUM
- Some PAYS Sense one
- OpenDesire
- ShadowSense
+ another 1 or 2 I forget now
with Alex-V's one still to try.
The main thing I'd say is:
- Do you want Sense?
- Do you want GApps and other fluff preinstalled?
Try them and see...
Personally
- I like OD but it needs the Sense music player
- CM has no market, and I have not worked out how cutdown it's GApps package yet to remove fluff

I have been using cyanogenmod 6 for a few days now.
And im not going anywere anytime soon
However, like they say, try em all

Aurax is rocking my boat right now although struggling to work out how to install Maps..
What do you like about Cyanogen?

The ui is good. It just works. Try out for yourself. Painless to install. Ohh and the battery performance is alot better then the stock rom
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Try MildWild V-4.8 Based on Oxygen 2.3.2 it's gr8 ROM

faraon83 said:
Try MildWild V-4.8 Based on Oxygen 2.3.2 it's gr8 ROM
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???
Wow you just dug up a 2yr old thread!!
Sent from my HTC Desire

He needs 10 posts...
Dude... reply to the newer threads. At least november 2012.

Bootloader: a noob question

Hi All,
apologies in advance if I'm asking something obvious...
I haven't purchased the Defy yet as I'm checking if this would be suitable for my wife and I'm struggling to understand the differences with the only other Android device I already own, a Galaxy S.
What I don't understand is this "bootloader locked" concept: it seems to be agreement on the fact that unlocking it is not proving to be an easy feat but exactly how does this "lock" affect the upgradeability of the phone?
I see that there are already several firmwares available, an advanced recovery mode, an application to flash the firmware and few custom ROMs so what's the bootloader for?
I have already flashed a dozen of different ROMs (both official and custom) on my Galaxy and the only thing I need to worry there, is the ROM itself and eventually the kernel...
Thanks for shedding some light on this subject: this phone looks great, far better than the "little" HTC & Samsung

Locked means that no matter what you put on the phone, certain pieces of the firmware have to be signed by Motorola or it will not boot. This makes it incredibly difficult to create fully functional firmwares. For example on Nexus One, new kernels can be compiled from open source, to help enable certain new features in the OS. On a Motorola locked bootloader, you can't load those kernels or it won't boot.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Thanks for the answer, cmstlist.
What about firmwares 2.21, 2.34 & 2.51 (just to mention the ones I see more in the threads here): are they not fully functional and/or bugged?
As this is going to be my wife's phone I don't plan to tinker much with it (unlike my Galaxy which I never let rest for more than few days ): to be honest Froyo (because of flash support) and the possibility to recover if things go wrong are the only things I'm after

The 2.21, 2.34 and 2.51 releases are fully functional and the latter two do lack much of the Blur features of the stock rom (which is appreciated by many users).
I run the 2.34 for a week now and didn't run into any problems, although there are some aspects of the phone I didn't use yet (e.g. bluetooth).
All of the above mentioned roms are 2.1 Eclair roms.
For the Fryo roms posted the picture is different. I didn't flash a 2.2 release yet, but from what you can read there are some issues. However, maybe someone running a Fryo Defy has more info on that.

Those ROM's are pretty much fully functional, but I guess you can hunt down a bug or two in just about any ROM, on any phone. The only one I've discovered so far (I'm on 2.34.1) is the inability to sync Facebook contacts with the phones contact book.
As you probably know, an official FroYo is on it's way, but there's no telling exactly when it'll be released, sometime during Q2.
I think it's a great phone, a huge bang for the bucks, as it's rugged, water resistant but still really light. And it does it's job, no lag, no freezes, good battery time. I'd recommend it to anyone.
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

The fact that one Froyo build exists, means that devs have something to work around to make other Froyo ROMs. On the other hand, if devs were trying to port Gingerbread? This would be a huge problem, because no matter how many pieces of delicious crispy Gingerbread you stick into this ROM, the kernel is still soft-serve Froyo, and the results will be kind of mushy.
Hmm, I'm hungry now.

Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)

chotto69 said:
Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)
Click to expand...
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There is customization, but there just isn't the flexibility to craft entirely new firmwares. You can't simply compile a ROM from source and flash it to this phone... you have to take the compiled ROM, extract pieces of it, inject them into a stock ROM that the phone is signed to accept, pray that it all works, and then come up with dirty little hacks to get around the bits that fail.
But if you want your durable Android, the Defy is still the only game in town. So that's still the selling point. =)

and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..

irenic said:
and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..
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w w w facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278

[Q] Getting Verizon Nexus. (Rom suggestions)

Hello there everyone. I have been browsing this site for about the past 2 years but only decided to register because I am upgrading from my OG Droid Incredible to the Nexus and i see how large and active the Dev base is for this device. I have a fair amount of experience with flashing roms on my Dinc (currently running CM7.2) and am excited to make the move to ICS.
I would like some opinions on what you guys think are the best custom roms out for the nexus though. so far I am very interested in AOKP because it seems to be the most stable and polished rom i have seen. I plan to flash my nexus right out of the box when i get it.
Also, i can't seem to find a place to add a signature in the Cpanel, is there one somewhere or do you guys just add on a Copy/Paste to the end of posts?

If you've been around this site for a couple of years now you should know that asking "what the best ROM is" only leads to closed threads. Its all a matter of opinion. What works for one person may not necessarily work for another.. why this person thinks this ROM is the best, another person may think the opposite. It's best to try them out for yourself, see which one YOU like.
As far as editing your sig.. at the top somewhere on your PC, you'll see User CP (user control panel).. click it. Then look to the left if your screen.. along the sidebar you should see Edit Signature. ..if that's what your referring to!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

i'm sorry if i come off like i want to know what the "best rom" is, i know that there is no best rom and like you said what works for one person may not work for another. that being said, some personal opinions about their taste in roms are still useful are they not?. and i do fully intend to try out several roms. as for my experience with this site, 90% of it has been with viewing the first page of rom posts, so i apologize for my ignorance in that regard. and i thoroughly searched through the user control panel to no avail, signatures must be disabled for me if that is where the interface to change them is located.
[EDIT] the reason joined this site is because with the nexus, i would actually like to get involved in the dev community and create something new, i was trying to use this thread more as a "say hi" kind of thread than just asking about what rom i should get. i dont think i accomplished that very well.

My advice is to just unlock bootloader, root and then run STOCK ROM. I have been running ROMS on phones here for a long time and for the first time on a phone think at this point the STOCK rom is the best and most stable. Next to it I would say Mikes AHRD is a great stable rom and that is always his goal. But try them all if you like. I would stay STOCK>

How customizable is this phone?

Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
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Assuming you have the Verizon model....Once you use Sunshine to S-Off this phone the world is your oyster. Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
The combination of the above and that HTC makes what I think are the most gorgeous looking and well built phones...it's been a win win for me since my Thunderbolt lol

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had a huge amount of devices, ( look at my sig and you'll see) and I've always come back to HTC, reason being is that they offer something a little different, but what's more they always have the most talented developers and the oldest serving, on XDA, Villain rom, etc, they always come up with the goods.
Not to mention that the root, unlocking of the bootloader and s-off (if you s-off) is reversible. Samsung is not, as it has an efuse chip as does the nexus too AFAIK.
There literally isn't anything you can't change on this device and with pretty much any other htc device, if you've had a htc before and gone on to something else, Sony or Sammy are good examples, you'll always be looking back over the fence, and when a new HTC comes out you'll just hate your current device, eg: I got rid of a six month old nexus 6P for this 10
Just unlock the bootloader, s-off if you must or want to, I believe that you can flash firmwares easier with it switched off, it's £20 so not great but it always works, install a custom recovery and flash away.
In terms of roms, Venom probably offers the most comprehensive list of tweaks and mods but LeeDroid is equally as good and as customizable, perhaps not with the length of venom tweaks but still great. Other roms I can guess are similar and when CM is completely fixed, well start seeing CM, AOSP and similar roms heading for us too.
In short, the answer to your question is a huge yes, I don't think I'll ever get another Samsung or Sony again, nothing wrong with them, they're just not for me and I'll miss HTC if I do.

Stripped, themed, ghostpeppered, and running like a bat out of hell....
.

bakemcbride21 said:
Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
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I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.

SlowRain said:
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.
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Long time Samsung user here. I got my US unlocked HTC 10 a few months ago. Best phone I ever had. Would not even consider an S7 in comparison.
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid. I've tried both and prefer Viper. I think that would be your long-term solution. Get an unlocked 10 if you can afford to for maximum flexibility and choice of service providers. Unlock the bootloader, S-Off, and flash Viper. You can't go wrong in my opinion.
BTW, this is just a general discussion thread. Each Rom, Kernel, recovery, etc etc have their own dedicated threads where you'll find in-depth info.

Aurelius99 said:
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid.
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Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?

Thanks guys, still considering the 10. Now I am between the 10, 6P and Pixel XL. The painful fact is that I am currently with no phone. When I went to return the Axon, there were no 10s in stock at the store. The wait for the Pixel is just killing me! And to worsen things a bit, I just ran into a 128 GB Nexus 6P. I am a real sucker for OLED screens you, know? That is why I still didn't buy the 10.

SlowRain said:
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?
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Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.

Aurelius99 said:
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.
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I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)

SlowRain said:
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)
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AOSP is the Android Open Source Project. Yes, this is sometimes referred to as the "stock" Rom. Google provides the code base for the stock Rom. Various developers use this code base and then add their own code enhancements to produce an extended version of the stock Rom. Most custom Roms are Cyanogenmod-based. This is the company that has put their particular twist on the stock Rom. A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
Some people actually do prefer the more standard stock Rom for various reasons. It is simpler and typically more robust for dealing with the limited and specific tasks it was designed for. A good custom Rom can be just as robust as stock in every way, but also allows the user to do much more with the phone. It can be overclocked to run much faster, have better audio, a highly customizable user interface, and so on.
Viper, on the Sense-based side, and Resurrection Remix on the Cyanogenmod-based side are both better than the stock Rom in my view and people using those Roms get many more updates to their Roms via the developers than stock Rom users do. Some developers are still producing custom Roms for the Samsung SII -- a very old phone that Samsung dropped support for years ago.
Check this out for the HTC 10:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development/rom-21-02-viper10-1-0-0-tweaks-hub-t3379151

Aurelius99 said:
A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
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Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?

SlowRain said:
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?
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Haha, you're really doing your research.
Yes, a sense based ROM is less likely to have bugs, however bugs are usually listed in the OP of every rom thread. A matured AOSP ROM won't have anything broken, but things may not work as well or as intended by HTC.
I think sense based is the way to go with this device, lots of good features HTC has developed that work well with the phone like the camera application and blinkfeed. Not to mention the polished look of the phone in general and the underrated theme store, it just works well together. You'd lose all of that with AOSP, not so much key features not working.

BadUsername said:
Haha, you're really doing your research.
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Yes. It's my most annoying characteristic, according to my wife. Now I just have to find a developer who keeps things simple & stable, and who will support it until 2021.
Thanks for your replies. And I apologize to gibawatts for hijacking this thread a bit. I hope it was still useful for you, too.

Did you guys decide?
It's still $150 off, which assisted me in my decision to go from the Nexus 5 to the htc 10 (and a nice, even doubling for us OCD types).
My short answer: the htc 10 is ever-so-slightly less customisable than the Nexus 5; I've installed everything on it that I had on the Nexus (SuperSU, Xposed, Gravitybox, Xprivacy, AdAway, etc.). N-ify works on it.
My only "issue" so far is that GravityBox can't remove the Calculator and Extreme Power Saver quicktile htc put there..real fine points here. (I've only had the thing 2 days, so there may be more but no show-stoppers for a purist like me). Sense 8 is more like an alternative launcher than an overhaul like TouchWiz or old versions of Sense. Wife likes it (coming from her N5/NovaLauncher) and I'm giving it a whirl.
Manual firmware updates would be the only caveat AFAICT but that is still better than what I had with N5: OTAs broke and I just never installed them due to lack of interest...not a habit I want to carry with me, however. My point being that the Nexus 5 was actually more of a hassle to me to update than what this seems like it would be (though I've not tested it yet but there's much discussion on the procedure here).
Wife is attached to OLED (SIII had a wonderful display) but she likes the htc 10 display and did not like the N5 display.

I love the feedback you guys got/gave here. This here is a model XDA thread.
I would just like to add that HTC's Sense ROM is quite bare-boned compared to other non-Nexus OEMs. Compared to the Axon, it'll look almost like a Nexus device.
Everyone else pretty much covered the other important things. I'd like to point out that CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs for the HTC 10 are still a bit down the road and they still need quite a bit of work, so when you get it, expect to either stay with Sense, or Sense-based custom ROMs for at least the next few months. No complaints on that from my side. Even if you do eventually flash CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs, I'll wager that you'll end up downloading some of HTC's apps, like Camera, Gallery, and Music. They blow away vanilla Android apps and 3rd party alternatives.

samisax said:
Compared to the Axon,...
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ZTE being mod-hostile turned me off to them; they have to establish a solid history of unlock/mod-friendliness for me to even look at them. (No, a press release stating that they would, in the future, answer questions from CyanogenMod folks to develop their ROM doesn't win me over in any way whatsoever.)
I surmised that the OnePlus 3 was too customised to be considered a Nexus spiritual successor (it was the phone I wanted to like/buy). Really, they only need to make good hardware and just use already-made AOSP and spend dev time getting drivers and such primo to have a winner (and with lower overhead) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel that nobody will want. It's like they're trying to sorta be Nexus and sorta be Sense/TouchWiz/et al but is there really a market for that? Is there really no market for Nexus? (I dunno...the Pixel thing has me befuddled and the no-more-Nexus thing has me ferhoodled.)
So, yeah, I'm liking the htc 10, which, being both funny and sad, I didn't even look at. My wife mentioned it and the $150 off, so we took a look and got'em. (I was still soured by my Evo 3D experience that led me to use then-Best Buy's 30-day return policy)
One more tid-bit I neglected to mention earlier: I'm glad I got the unlocked/dev version...no issue getting official RUUs all official-like, officially. I don't ever want to deal with "carrier" stuff.
P.S. Good to know about the camera, gallery, and music apps. Those are important to my wife (I'm happy with those being "functional" but also happy to just have the same software between us..easier to maintain and to answer her questions).