Develop Bugs

[ALERT] TYPE-C PORT and TWO accessories FRIED

So I was charging my phone like usual. And I was slightly aware that there was a compatibility issue between QC 3.0 and Type-C.
HOWEVER, tonight at about 12amish GMT. I kept smelling a burning smell... Which I thought it was my cat. but then when I decided to charge my phone using my Lumia 950 XL charger. I discovered the port had been burnt, and the cape and phone where burning ****ing hot! I felt the type-c plug from the charge against my top-lip and I got burnt...
I'm writing this a bit panic-y as I want everyone to just know TO BE CAREFUL. I'm not sure what exactly caused this as I have looked after the phone as if its my baby. Always case and a screen protector. I have a feeling this is down to compatibility!?
Anyone with similar issues, suggestions or such?
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https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4dCeGjVRobJ69E9VQ
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4dD-I6Fz_tNorEnRw
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4dBqVqPnnW6UgdktA
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4dAaR9KAmgBnUMaHw
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4c_KkbOCCaR4HbF3g
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4c-CX3xqnj2JjtoBA
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApgIOc0kRR7Sl4c7inelDdbl20y7ug

Intraducinmista said:
So I was charging my phone like usual. And I was slightly aware that there was a compatibility issue between QC 3.0 and Type-C.
HOWEVER, tonight at about 12amish GMT. I kept smelling a burning smell... Which I thought it was my cat. but then when I decided to charge my phone using my Lumia 950 XL charger. I discovered the port had been burnt, and the cape and phone where burning ****ing hot! I felt the type-c plug from the charge against my top-lip and I got burnt...
I'm writing this a bit panic-y as I want everyone to just know TO BE CAREFUL. I'm not sure what exactly caused this as I have looked after the phone as if its my baby. Always case and a screen protector. I have a feeling this is down to compatibility!?
Anyone with similar issues, suggestions or such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Lumia is c to c right? If so, yeah there were lots of reported issues where people used various c to c cables with a c brick (most were pixel or nexus chargers that I saw) that had the same issues you did. Think it ended up being that the 10 doesn't have the right safe checks in place to stop charging at 100%, and it just keeps trying to push 3 amps even when fully charged (could be wrong about that though)

guyverzero said:
The Lumia is c to c right? If so, yeah there were lots of reported issues where people used various c to c cables with a c brick (most were pixel or nexus chargers that I saw) that had the same issues you did. Think it ended up being that the 10 doesn't have the right safe checks in place to stop charging at 100%, and it just keeps trying to push 3 amps even when fully charged (could be wrong about that though)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmm.. the phone was charging from almost nothing... I think I was charging it from about 20% using a zuk z1 cable plugged into my computer that was connected to a usb 3.0 port. the cable is 3.0 standard and the phone is 3.1 if I rememeber

ive just added images into the original post

guyverzero said:
Think it ended up being that the 10 doesn't have the right safe checks in place to stop charging at 100%, and it just keeps trying to push 3 amps even when fully charged (could be wrong about that though)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't Push Amps, you pull em, you Push Voltage.
The phone decides how much amps it wants to draw.
More likely missing cables inside the cable or bad quality Connector.
Was it an original Microsoft Cable from the 950 or bought afterwards?
P.S can't see the pictures. Just my bad Internet?

Haldi4803 said:
You don't Push Amps, you pull em, you Push Voltage.
The phone decides how much amps it wants to draw.
More likely missing cables inside the cable or bad quality Connector.
Was it an original Microsoft Cable from the 950 or bought afterwards?
P.S can't see the pictures. Just my bad Internet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant see the photos either

_-..zKiLLA..-_ said:
I cant see the photos either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't appear the image tag correctly grabbed the microsoft drive images so i deleted the image format. Downside is you can't see them inline.. but the upside is you can click them to see em..

Read here...
..and follow the links at the bottom.

UPDATE: ok so, I've taken it back to the place I brought it from and they sent it to the repair centre (carphone warehouse). They've turned round and said tis water damage but I disagree as I do not like to keep my gadgets in places that are potential for issues. Will be taking it up with the shop. failing that, Trading Standards.
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME; does water corrosion look similar to that of corrosion caused by excessive current or connection shorting?

I had a ps4 controller do the same thing. it was cause by the cable was not 100% plugged into the controller port. it was still able to charge a bit but after awhile I noticed a burning smell... same results

Intraducinmista said:
UPDATE: ok so, I've taken it back to the place I brought it from and they sent it to the repair centre (carphone warehouse). They've turned round and said tis water damage but I disagree as I do not like to keep my gadgets in places that are potential for issues. Will be taking it up with the shop. failing that, Trading Standards.
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME; does water corrosion look similar to that of corrosion caused by excessive current or connection shorting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be looking for blue oxidation if it was water damage.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

dottat said:
I would be looking for blue oxidation if it was water damage.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By any chance green oxidation would indicate electrical corrosion from shorting of the contacts?

QC3.0 cannot exists as TypeC output, also the standard is not supported by USB consortium which developed USB Power Delivery instead.
Benson Leung warned people, that type c to type c charging should be avoided.
Even HTC10 does not follow the official usb specification and uses QC so best any user can do, i using legacy USB type A to type c cable and using charger with USB A output port. Also all cables must have 56k ohm resistor, cheap one come with 11k resistor and could damage power charger or the device. Check Bensons google+, he even linked to Tronsmart chargers which were out of specification and should be avoided.

cavist said:
QC3.0 cannot exists as TypeC output, also the standard is not supported by USB consortium which developed USB Power Delivery instead.
Benson Leung warned people, that type c to type c charging should be avoided.
Even HTC10 does not follow the official usb specification and uses QC so best any user can do, i using legacy USB type A to type c cable and using charger with USB A output port. Also all cables must have 56k ohm resistor, cheap one come with 11k resistor and could damage power charger or the device. Check Bensons google+, he even linked to Tronsmart chargers which were out of specification and should be avoided.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh, I became aware of this when the QC3.0 was released. Though, my assumption was because I'm connecting between usb type-c to the phones type-c it wouldn't charge off the QC3.0 standard.
Initially, I was using the Nokia type-C charger which came with my Lumia 950XL. It charges at 15 Watts (5V, 3.0A). I had used this the majority of the time and hadn't gone wrong. Sometimes I'd use a portable battery charge which charged at a generic 5V 2A AND a Samsung nexus 10 charger which was a usb female and charged a the same rate.
I would've assumed (also judging from the new releases by QUALCOMM) that QC3.0 phones would either charge of USB standard OR take advantage of QC. I've never used type-c to type-c charging only because I never had the capability. There is a slider in the settings menu to use USB3.1 standard but again, never used it. always done this through a usb3.0 to usb type-c cable.

HTC10 charges normaly from any standard legacy USB port like your old HTC M7 usb wall charger or notebook usb ports. QC3.0 uses data lines in usb cable to provide power and this method is not approved by the USB consortium, thats why you can not also communicate with your phone in QC3.0 mode, because there is no free lines for data left. You can either fast charge, or switch to standard usb mode and transfer files without QC3.0.
USB TypeC standard forbids strictly manouvers over the cable like QC does. For this, the newest Chromebooks and Nexus uses approved USB Power Delivery.
The "problem" was, that Qualcomm is also part of research and development of USB Power Delivery but yet, they in the same time were developing QC3.0. Was it for pure marketing purpose or to fill the gap between USB PD going live, we can not tell.
The only way now to end this confusion is to wait for Qualcomm to switch for USB PD as a successor of QC3.0 because there is really no point of two competing charging standards which one is spec certified and the other is not.

cavist said:
HTC10 charges normaly from any standard legacy USB port like your old HTC M7 usb wall charger or notebook usb ports. QC3.0 uses data lines in usb cable to provide power and this method is not approved by the USB consortium, thats why you can not also communicate with your phone in QC3.0 mode, because there is no free lines for data left. You can either fast charge, or switch to standard usb mode and transfer files without QC3.0.
USB TypeC standard forbids strictly manouvers over the cable like QC does. For this, the newest Chromebooks and Nexus uses approved USB Power Delivery.
The "problem" was, that Qualcomm is also part of research and development of USB Power Delivery but yet, they in the same time were developing QC3.0. Was it for pure marketing purpose or to fill the gap between USB PD going live, we can not tell.
The only way now to end this confusion is to wait for Qualcomm to switch for USB PD as a successor of QC3.0 because there is really no point of two competing charging standards which one is spec certified and the other is not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so would this mean I will need to set my phone to file transfer mode if I want to charge from USB?
Also, for reference, is there a way to disable quick charge 3.0 (which I assume may be present in the build.prop file OR am I thinking more noob like)

Intraducinmista said:
so would this mean I will need to set my phone to file transfer mode if I want to charge from USB?
Also, for reference, is there a way to disable quick charge 3.0 (which I assume may be present in the build.prop file OR am I thinking more noob like)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you must understand how usb and QC3 works. I will try to explain it as simply as I can.
Legacy USB have 4 cables inside, two for data transfer, one for curent and one for ground.
If you plug your phone to the usb in notebook, you can charge and transfer data in the same time.
What QC3.0 does, it is using the data paths for providing additional power, so when you plug it to your QC3 charger, it uses all the data routes/cables in USB only for additional and faster charging, so the data connection is blocked in this mode.

Ok, just came back from Carphone Warehouse. It looks as if the phone has corroded more during the time I've given it to them and the time its taken for it too come back.
The colour of the corrosion was of a greenish hue.

cavist said:
No, you must understand how usb and QC3 works. I will try to explain it as simply as I can.
Legacy USB have 4 cables inside, two for data transfer, one for curent and one for ground.
If you plug your phone to the usb in notebook, you can charge and transfer data in the same time.
What QC3.0 does, it is using the data paths for providing additional power, so when you plug it to your QC3 charger, it uses all the data routes/cables in USB only for additional and faster charging, so the data connection is blocked in this mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm awar eof this, but my question is if it can be disabled on the phone or not.

Never heard of disabling QC. I do not think that HTC will provide any tool to disable built in chipset feature.

Compatible USB-C cable

I bought Blitzwolf 3A USB-C cable which I am using in my car with Android Auto & my HTC 10.
While I am switching to 1+3t I am thinking if I can still use same cable for Android Auto+charging in car
Any ideas?

The cable should be fine, but it will be trickle charge. Only the dash chargers provide quick charging.

I got this one for $6 on Amazon and it's Benson approved. I also brought a few Otium adapters, which sell a pair for $7 and of course Benson approved. They are so small, so I just have them all over the place. One in a bag, one in the bedroom, one in the car, and one in the office. If anyone found a good Benson approved USB-C cables that sell in packs with at least one 6ft, please share.

I bought a pack of these: https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Adapter-Type-C-MacBook-Google/dp/B01ANLA6OU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1480436320&sr=8-5&keywords=usb+b+to+c+adapter which work ok and I didn't have to buy all new cables, at least for now. I will eventually get a new cable though.

GiSS88 said:
I bought a pack of these: https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Adapter-Type-C-MacBook-Google/dp/B01ANLA6OU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1480436320&sr=8-5&keywords=usb+b+to+c+adapter which work ok and I didn't have to buy all new cables, at least for now. I will eventually get a new cable though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These allowed you to trickle-charge via standard microUSB, correct? I have a 3T on the way, and I don't look forward to being chained to one charging cable.

donalgodon said:
These allowed you to trickle-charge via standard microUSB, correct? I have a 3T on the way, and I don't look forward to being chained to one charging cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they work fine. Description states it also has a 56kOhm resistor to prevent damage, but I don't really have any way of testing. I generally only use it as a backup at this point.

GiSS88 said:
Yes, they work fine. Description states it also has a 56kOhm resistor to prevent damage, but I don't really have any way of testing. I generally only use it as a backup at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a Oneplus One and the only thing that broke on it was the charging cable, so being tied to one cable gives me pause.

Always go for high-quality well known and reviewed usb-c cable's. As dash charge uses 4 Amps+ you will definitely need a high gauge cable (thicker copper wires) to safely carry that amount of current. Tell tail signs of cheap cables are obviously slow charging but the worse case is a buildup of heat and short out of the cables. Braided also tend to have higher wear and fraying resistance. I went for one of these Anker PowerLine+ USB-C to USB
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GN0M6NE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_O6jwyb6S54SRJ

LMcR92 said:
Always go for high-quality well known and reviewed usb-c cable's. As dash charge uses 4 Amps+ you will definitely need a high gauge cable (thicker copper wires) to safely carry that amount of current. Tell tail signs of cheap cables are obviously slow charging but the worse case is a buildup of heat and short out of the cables. Braided also tend to have higher wear and fraying resistance. I went for one of these Anker PowerLine+ USB-C to USB
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GN0M6NE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_O6jwyb6S54SRJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I just got one of these but Dash charging doesn't work. Might buy an extra from oneplus and reverse engineer and make my own.

I did discover the 1+3T slurps 1.5A (voltage drops to 4.6V)out of my desktop-PC USB2.0 socket when no data-connection is provided, and nicely reduces the current to 495 mA when connected to USB.
This with original dash-cable and Legion meter. I did not try for long though, as my mainboard is only rated for 1A.
From a good high current (IKEA) 3 x 2.1 A adapter it also takes 1.5A, with no voltage drop. So it looks to me that the phone is charging with 1.5A unless a dashcharger is directly connected, or reduced to 0.5 A when connected to USB.
When connected through my Legion meter, it will charge with 1.5A even if connected to a dash-charger.
From the cable-tables, you can select AWG 23 for 4.7A, AWG 27 for 1.7A and AWG 32 for 0.53A, so there is quite a difference

donalgodon said:
I had a Oneplus One and the only thing that broke on it was the charging cable, so being tied to one cable gives me pause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to be able to quick charge you will be tied down to the stock cable. I have an abundance of USB-C cables that I used to use with my Nexus 5X (charged at 2.3A on average) and none of those cable come close to charging the OP3T at 4A. I usually get around 1.4A when using 3rd party cables.

Gor this one in AliExpress, dash working and fast delivery to Spain https://es.aliexpress.com/item/100-...-Flash-Charging-USB-Wire-For/32708785156.html

I bought this before 3 months https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32695530105.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.nTY2Iz support dash

Also seeing about 1.5a while using high quality cables and powerful charger...tested using Ampere. Just glad that this is my first android phone that I don't need to charge throughout the day.
Previous phones: mytouch4g, s2, note 3, note 4, note 5.... Never really put the 6p through its paces.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

USB cable for connecting to PC

I have a fairly old laptop, and it only has the USB A connector on it
Any idea which USB C to USB A data cable I can use to connect Moto Z Play to Windows 7 laptop?
thanks!

animefans said:
I have a fairly old laptop, and it only has the USB A connector on it
Any idea which USB C to USB A data cable I can use to connect Moto Z Play to Windows 7 laptop?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't received mine yet but I assume an A to micro plugged into a Micro female to C male adapter will work just fine for charge and xfers. But again, I haven't tested it yet. Both can be had for cheap on ebay.

KrisM22 said:
I haven't received mine yet but I assume an A to mini plugged into a mini to C adapter will work just fine for charge and xfers. But again, I haven't tested it yet. Both can be had for cheap on ebay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my first time dealing with USB C cable, but I have read (headline mostly) that USB C cable is pretty picky, and some can even fried the device
If you don't mind, can you let me know your experience with the adapter?
Thanks!

animefans said:
This is my first time dealing with USB C cable, but I have read (headline mostly) that USB C cable is pretty picky, and some can even fried the device
If you don't mind, can you let me know your experience with the adapter?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my first time with USB-C connector.
1. important change in my first answer - change "mini" to "micro". (I keep confusing the 2 in my speak! I have tons of "A to micro" cables lying around to charge things like my cell phones etc. So I got and ordered adapters which go micro female to C male. I have no idea if they will be problematic.
2. been lazy so finally ordered a couple cables on ebay with description "USB-C 3.1 Type C Male to 3.0 Type A Male Sync Data Charger Fast Charging Cable" - the important thing for me being the 3.0 type A. Even though realistically, I believe we are only using 4 conductors on a regular-speed power charge or data xfer. But the high speed charge probably uses more, but that's a separate cable attached to the wall wart charger.
3. as to them frying things , i googled and found many many many reports about that one incident. I actually expected more. What you could do to minimize this is eyeball connectors before you plug them in, and possibly shut phone off (and unplug charger) and plug C connector in to phone just to make sure it slides in easily. I believe the only USB connectors I have ever had problems with were very recent: micro male attached to the end of some cheap 10-20$ "endoscopes". Really had problem getting them in to my Moto G3, but no shorts.
Lightening can strike anywhere and anytime. We can just do our best to be careful!
Certainly I'll let you know my experience though I have yet to see the phone hit the post office.

KrisM22 said:
Yes, my first time with USB-C connector.
1. important change in my first answer - change "mini" to "micro". (I keep confusing the 2 in my speak! I have tons of "A to micro" cables lying around to charge things like my cell phones etc. So I got and ordered adapters which go micro female to C male. I have no idea if they will be problematic.
2. been lazy so finally ordered a couple cables on ebay with description "USB-C 3.1 Type C Male to 3.0 Type A Male Sync Data Charger Fast Charging Cable" - the important thing for me being the 3.0 type A. Even though realistically, I believe we are only using 4 conductors on a regular-speed power charge or data xfer. But the high speed charge probably uses more, but that's a separate cable attached to the wall wart charger.
3. as to them frying things , i googled and found many many many reports about that one incident. I actually expected more. What you could do to minimize this is eyeball connectors before you plug them in, and possibly shut phone off (and unplug charger) and plug C connector in to phone just to make sure it slides in easily. I believe the only USB connectors I have ever had problems with were very recent: micro male attached to the end of some cheap 10-20$ "endoscopes". Really had problem getting them in to my Moto G3, but no shorts.
Lightening can strike anywhere and anytime. We can just do our best to be careful!
Certainly I'll let you know my experience though I have yet to see the phone hit the post office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this topic!
I will also do my own research as well, and see what I learn
It might not be as bad as I think/perceive!

animefans said:
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this topic!
I will also do my own research as well, and see what I learn
It might not be as bad as I think/perceive!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the unit and have done a ton of plugging/un- and though I notice the connection is slightly stiff, I have noticed no problems with the USB-C.

KrisM22 said:
I have the unit and have done a ton of plugging/un- and though I notice the connection is slightly stiff, I have noticed no problems with the USB-C.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not do very thorough reading, but from what I gather, the issue with USB-C is the potential for USB-C device (maybe 3 amps) to pull more current than the USB-A port can supply (most likely 2 amps), thus frying the USB-A port
A USB-C to USB-A cable that has 56 ohm resistor will avoid this issue by forcing the client (usb C device) to draw as much power as the host (usb A port) can supply
Here are the pages that I read on this topic
https://www.androidauthority.com/best-usb-type-c-cables-682801/
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-and-other-usb-devices-as-quickly-as-possible
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables

animefans said:
I have not do very thorough reading, but from what I gather, the issue with USB-C is the potential for USB-C device (maybe 3 amps) to pull more current than the USB-A port can supply (most likely 2 amps), thus frying the USB-A port
A USB-C to USB-A cable that has 56 ohm resistor will avoid this issue by forcing the client (usb C device) to draw as much power as the host (usb A port) can supply
Here are the pages that I read on this topic
https://www.androidauthority.com/best-usb-type-c-cables-682801/
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-and-other-usb-devices-as-quickly-as-possible
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this. A close read of that indicates to me that there is going to be a ton of arguing over what is safe, and some burnt out 5v power rails in some, especially older, computers.
The mention of 56Kohm resister in cables has caused some cable sellers to advertise that, but having that, in and of itself, I believe doesn't do anything - you need load balancing circuitry in both the phone AND the charger to utilize it.
I read this quote with amusement "A good cable uses a deep-draw extrusion method that produces a Type C plug that is a single piece of metal and does not have a visible seam on one side of the plug,". My phone came with a factory Motorola hi speed charger that is rated for 5v 3a (15w), and it's C plug has just such a "bad" seam. So many people make such blanket statements that simply are not true.
I looked at one of my wall-wart chargers(this particular one is stamped Samsung) and it is rated at 5v, 0.7a (3.5w), so it's a good bet that if I plug my old A to micro to micro-to-C adapter to phone, that nothing bad will happen. Another one (Moto) rated at .8a. A 3rd one that came with my Moto G3 is rated .55a .
1)So if one goes to ebay and buys a wall wart rated at 5a and uses old cables and adapter to plug it to a Moto Z, what will happen? Dunno!
2) I have had my Moto z plugged very often to my computer with just such an arrangement and have not noticed any "fast charging".
I have a huge 850w PSU in my computer, but that does not mean that all that amperage available on the rail is permitted through the USB connection. Intel offers some ideas and I would bet that most current mobos have such limiting circuitry: I am sure older (than 10 yrs?) do not, or at least not as effective.
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/whitepapers/power_delivery_motherboards.pdf
The phone also has smart limiting circuitry, but of course I don't know what it is.
Am I more in jeopardy with an old A to micro cable with C adapter, or a new A to C cable. Dunno. Certainly any wall wart should be from the/a phone mfgr, or rated below an amp or so. I don't know if you can make this phone fast charge for 30 min if it's rated for 3a, without an official charger. The remainder of the charge time is governed by the phone to be at a much slower rate.
With this new phone, I have yet to connect it to a wall wart other than for 5 min to the official one just to make sure it worked, and I don't recall any high speed message. It winds up getting a 100% charge just by being plugged into my computer since I am doing file transfers and the like.
As to the plugs themselves, you can run much more amperage through an A (few wide conductors) than a C (many very thin conductors).
A very great deal is being made of this one incident. It is hard for me to understand how a different cable can burn out a computer. You can run 10 amps through any cable (though it will get more than a tad warm!), but amps in a cable is not a problem. It's the governor, or lack thereof, in the source (wall wart or computer) and the target (phone or another computer). If the computer presents a short circuit to the cable, something will surely fry, but no device, these days, should ever do that.
A cable (they all are made in China, but there are many factorys there with widely varying QC), with an M stamp on it or not, is still just 4 wires in a sheath. If it is poorly made, or the connectors at the ends are poorly made or poorly attached, there will be trouble.
Okay, that's enough words for this post, but, for sure, this topic will be around forever!
EDIT: C type connectors have been in use on phones for years now. Why have we not heard of any phones destroyed???????

KrisM22 said:
Thanks for this. A close read of that indicates to me that there is going to be a ton of arguing over what is safe, and some burnt out 5v power rails in some, especially older, computers.
The mention of 56Kohm resister in cables has caused some cable sellers to advertise that, but having that, in and of itself, I believe doesn't do anything - you need load balancing circuitry in both the phone AND the charger to utilize it.
I read this quote with amusement "A good cable uses a deep-draw extrusion method that produces a Type C plug that is a single piece of metal and does not have a visible seam on one side of the plug,". My phone came with a factory Motorola hi speed charger that is rated for 5v 3a (15w), and it's C plug has just such a "bad" seam. So many people make such blanket statements that simply are not true.
I looked at one of my wall-wart chargers(this particular one is stamped Samsung) and it is rated at 5v, 0.7a (3.5w), so it's a good bet that if I plug my old A to micro to micro-to-C adapter to phone, that nothing bad will happen. Another one (Moto) rated at .8a. A 3rd one that came with my Moto G3 is rated .55a .
1)So if one goes to ebay and buys a wall wart rated at 5a and uses old cables and adapter to plug it to a Moto Z, what will happen? Dunno!
2) I have had my Moto z plugged very often to my computer with just such an arrangement and have not noticed any "fast charging".
I have a huge 850w PSU in my computer, but that does not mean that all that amperage available on the rail is permitted through the USB connection. Intel offers some ideas and I would bet that most current mobos have such limiting circuitry: I am sure older (than 10 yrs?) do not, or at least not as effective.
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/whitepapers/power_delivery_motherboards.pdf
The phone also has smart limiting circuitry, but of course I don't know what it is.
Am I more in jeopardy with an old A to micro cable with C adapter, or a new A to C cable. Dunno. Certainly any wall wart should be from the/a phone mfgr, or rated below an amp or so. I don't know if you can make this phone fast charge for 30 min if it's rated for 3a, without an official charger. The remainder of the charge time is governed by the phone to be at a much slower rate.
With this new phone, I have yet to connect it to a wall wart other than for 5 min to the official one just to make sure it worked, and I don't recall any high speed message. It winds up getting a 100% charge just by being plugged into my computer since I am doing file transfers and the like.
As to the plugs themselves, you can run much more amperage through an A (few wide conductors) than a C (many very thin conductors).
A very great deal is being made of this one incident. It is hard for me to understand how a different cable can burn out a computer. You can run 10 amps through any cable (though it will get more than a tad warm!), but amps in a cable is not a problem. It's the governor, or lack thereof, in the source (wall wart or computer) and the target (phone or another computer). If the computer presents a short circuit to the cable, something will surely fry, but no device, these days, should ever do that.
A cable (they all are made in China, but there are many factorys there with widely varying QC), with an M stamp on it or not, is still just 4 wires in a sheath. If it is poorly made, or the connectors at the ends are poorly made or poorly attached, there will be trouble.
Okay, that's enough words for this post, but, for sure, this topic will be around forever!
EDIT: C type connectors have been in use on phones for years now. Why have we not heard of any phones destroyed???????
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Certainly a good read, and another perspective on this matter!
I can't argue with anything you said
I am also in no position to offer any additional opinion, since I don't know squat on this topic. My first USB C device
But you do touch on an excellent point: not a whole lot of reported issue with damage related to USB C.
As statistics goes, 1 sample is not representitive
It is a data point, and that's a fact, but you can't draw solid conclusion from 1 incident

animefans said:
Certainly a good read, and another perspective on this matter!
I can't argue with anything you said
I am also in no position to offer any additional opinion, since I don't know squat on this topic. My first USB C device
But you do touch on an excellent point: not a whole lot of reported issue with damage related to USB C.
As statistics goes, 1 sample is not representitive
It is a data point, and that's a fact, but you can't draw solid conclusion from 1 incident
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On the other hand I will try to get a 4-5' cable that supposedly has 56Kohm resisters in it...

KrisM22 said:
On the other hand I will try to get a 4-5' cable that supposedly has 56Kohm resisters in it...
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For science?

animefans said:
For science?
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Actually for possible protection of my old wall warts. If I understand correctly, using a 56Kohm cable keeps current low (slow charge). I'd hate to think what my wall wart would look like it my Moto z tried to pull 3 amps out of it!!!
EDIT - It also just seems a prudent thing to do...
Do you have any preferences?
I just ordered these on ebay: "USB C Cable (2-Pack 6ft) Anker PowerLine USB C to USB 3.0 Cable with 56k Ohm Pul"

Gemini PDA picky about USB-C chargers?

My Google Pixel or ASUS chromebook chargers don't seem to work unless the pda is off. I'm disappointed that this device didn't implement USB-PD and that I can't charge from either side. What's the point of a standard connector if you need a proprietary power brick. MediaTek Pump Express was a poor choice.

I agree. So plugging into your charger when the Gemini is off WILL charge it?
I have a USB-C charger in my truck, and I will say that when my Gemini is plugged in it will hold the charge at whatever level it's at. It won't charge it, but at least power won't be depleted. Still disappointing, for sure.

dimex said:
I agree. So plugging into your charger when the Gemini is off WILL charge it?
I have a USB-C charger in my truck, and I will say that when my Gemini is plugged in it will hold the charge at whatever level it's at. It won't charge it, but at least power won't be depleted. Still disappointing, for sure.
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Yes, if my Gemini PDA is off-off, my Google Pixel USB charger does seem to charge it. I don't have any numbers, but I doubt it's using the higher voltage modes so it's probably a slow charge. The red charging light comes on after maybe a second. Same poor behavior using an Anker PowerCore+ 26800 USB-PD with J5 Create JUCX01 USB-C to USB-C cables (an expensive but highly regarded cable supporting 100W power delivery AND 10 Gbps transfers). My car's AOLIEKS 48W USB-C USB-PD cigarette lighter port adapter is also useless for the gemini PDA when using the 30 W USB-PD port with a JUCX01 cable. I'll try using the QC 3.0 USB-A port with Gemini-provided USB cable tonight.
None of my standard USB-C chargers seem to do anything at all when the Gemini PDA is on. As though the cable isn't even detected. This indicates a firmware issue in the charge controller, IMHO. I looked closely at the Gemini-provided USB cables and the USB-C plug seems maybe 0.5mm longer than my other USB-C cables, so maybe it's a physical thing but I doubt it.

rgmmm said:
Yes, if my Gemini PDA is off-off, my Google Pixel USB charger does seem to charge it. I don't have any numbers, but I doubt it's using the higher voltage modes so it's probably a slow charge. The red charging light comes on after maybe a second. Same poor behavior using an Anker PowerCore+ 26800 USB-PD with J5 Create JUCX01 USB-C to USB-C cables (an expensive but highly regarded cable supporting 100W power delivery AND 10 Gbps transfers). My car's AOLIEKS 48W USB-C USB-PD cigarette lighter port adapter is also useless for the gemini PDA when using the 30 W USB-PD port with a JUCX01 cable. I'll try using the QC 3.0 USB-A port with Gemini-provided USB cable tonight.
None of my standard USB-C chargers seem to do anything at all when the Gemini PDA is on. As though the cable isn't even detected. This indicates a firmware issue in the charge controller, IMHO. I looked closely at the Gemini-provided USB cables and the USB-C plug seems maybe 0.5mm longer than my other USB-C cables, so maybe it's a physical thing but I doubt it.
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I was adding a 6-outlet wall tap to the outlet near my bedside table today, and while consolidating chargers I plugged the Gemini's USB-C cable into the AUKEY 12W Dual Port Home Travel USB Wall Charger Adapter - Black charger I have. It charges the Gemini, whether it's on or off. Not sure about voltages or numbers either, but the Battery page in settings showed "Charging by AC" and the time remaining seemed pretty short.

There does seem to be some magic sauce with the included USB cable. Using that cable worked fine with my power bank, but not my car charger.

I've done some testing using a Pluggable USB-C meter (can't post links due to being new, it's on amazon).
Charging is only on the left port. (More on that later.)
Using the supplied charger + cable I get 8.8v at 1.35A (close to the 9v the charger has printed on the back, charger says it supports 12v according to the back but I guess the Gemini doesn't).
Using an Anker PowerPort+ (60w, one type-c and USB A ports) I get:
- Anker USB A to C cable: 5v (well, 4.78v), 1.8A
- Anker USB-C to C cable: Nothing. :/ (the pluggable adapter doesn't even turn on, presumably not seeing any negotiation to even turn on).
Also tried a few other USB C cables and power supplies (Apple, Chromebook) and they don't charge it or pass power.
While the left port is the only one that will charge, the Gemini will take power on the right hand port -- the amount varying by usage it seems (I've seen between 0.15A and 0.41A when worked hard), so presumably it is possible to take power from a hub which should mean the device stays alive for longer but won't charge.
I hope it's possible to add proper PD / type C charging in a software update, for me a huge advantage of type C is not needing to have different adapters for fast charging... (I'm a little confused because pump express claims to support USB PD on mediatek. c o m / features/pump-express (sorry mangled url because I can't post them...), not sure what that means in non-marketing speak as it obviously doesn't work).
Forgot to test with it turned entirely off:
- It does charge off the Anker USB-C charger via C-to-C cable, but only at 4.96v, 0.38A, i.e. you're going to be waiting a while for a charge. Makes me hopeful this is a software thing though.
---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------
Replying to myself, but thought this was useful to point out:
psionfan said:
It does charge off the Anker USB-C charger via C-to-C cable, but only at 4.96v, 0.38A, i.e. you're going to be waiting a while for a charge.
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...which does lead to an interesting trick:
Turn it off, plug it to the type C charger, then it will continue charging at a low rate while on. Could be useful if you forget the right charger (which is totally something I see myself doing).

USB-C charging is a compatibility mess, and yes, it seems Gemini PDA is on the bad end of it. I have various
But I had an LG phone that couldn't reliably charge from a MacBook Pro USB-C power supply--and it seems that charger can't charge my Gemini at all. Two rather mainstream companies that can't manage to implement a standard and make it work right, Gemini can't make it work at all, isn't unique in having problems, but clearly on the bad end...
Sounds like the USB-C standard is badly designed.
-kb

What is Superfast Charging actually?

So what is actually superfast charging? Is it just Samsung's term for USB-PD? Does our phone support USB-PD? I'm still relatively new to this charging protocol.. What's PDO and PPS?

Hello
This "Superfast Charging" is very similar to Qualcomm's Quick Charge technology but is somewhat more proprietary. Remember when Samsung launched 15W fast charging with the Galaxy S6? This is basically the same kind of thing, except instead of being only 15W, this is 25W. For comparison, a regular laptop charger from the last decade or so can support anywhere from 40W to 120W(Possibly more). Apple's newest MacBook Pro comes with a 96W charger. It supports USB PD (power delivery). However, USB PD has a very specific standard and is only supported over USB C cables, and has to be 60W or more. If you were to plug a USB PD cable into a device which only supports up to 25W, then the device will only draw up to 25W. The reason laptops and some devices can charge faster than others is because of the chemistry and thermal management they use. Remember, a hot Lithium Ion or Polymer battery is a very bad thing, and the faster a battery charges, the more heat it produces because of internal resistance. Though you may hear about something like Wh (watt-hours), this is very different to W (watts), since Wh is a unit to measure how much energy a cell can store, while W are generally used to measure HOW FAST a cell can charge. PPS is an acronym for Programmable Power Supply, this basically means that the power supply (or charger) is able to change the amount of current it supplies, so that it doesn't fry the circuitry of the device if it cant handle it. PDO is an acronym for Power Data Object. GSMArena has a good article about this.here
I hope I answered your question, oh and sorry I got carried away with the length , I find these kinds of thing quite interesting!

antxn_7703 said:
Hello
This "Superfast Charging" is very similar to Qualcomm's Quick Charge technology but is somewhat more proprietary. Remember when Samsung launched 15W fast charging with the Galaxy S6? This is basically the same kind of thing, except instead of being only 15W, this is 25W. For comparison, a regular laptop charger from the last decade or so can support anywhere from 40W to 120W(Possibly more). Apple's newest MacBook Pro comes with a 96W charger. It supports USB PD (power delivery). However, USB PD has a very specific standard and is only supported over USB C cables, and has to be 60W or more. If you were to plug a USB PD cable into a device which only supports up to 25W, then the device will only draw up to 25W. The reason laptops and some devices can charge faster than others is because of the chemistry and thermal management they use. Remember, a hot Lithium Ion or Polymer battery is a very bad thing, and the faster a battery charges, the more heat it produces because of internal resistance. Though you may hear about something like Wh (watt-hours), this is very different to W (watts), since Wh is a unit to measure how much energy a cell can store, while W are generally used to measure HOW FAST a cell can charge. PPS is an acronym for Programmable Power Supply, this basically means that the power supply (or charger) is able to change the amount of current it supplies, so that it doesn't fry the circuitry of the device if it cant handle it. PDO is an acronym for Power Data Object. GSMArena has a good article about this.here
I hope I answered your question, oh and sorry I got carried away with the length , I find these kinds of thing quite interesting!
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Thank you for the detailed explanation, now for my real question : can you plug a USB hub with multiple USB-A ports and a USB-C port and charge to this device through said port using any charger?

antxn_7703 said:
However, USB PD has a very specific standard and is only supported over USB C cables, and has to be 60W or more.
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No, that's not true. USB-PD is flexible in it's power delivery and was designed to be one standard for all usb devices.,

GBry said:
Thank you for the detailed explanation, now for my real question : can you plug a USB hub with multiple USB-A ports and a USB-C port and charge to this device through said port using any charger?
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I tried and apparently it is possible. But the charging would be standard charging.

antxn_7703 said:
...and sorry I got carried away with the length , I find these kinds of thing quite interesting!
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Please get carried away some more! I love this kinda great info sharing, and it's the reason xda exists.
Thanks

James.Miller said:
No, that's not true. USB-PD is flexible in it's power delivery and was designed to be one standard for all usb devices.,
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Apologies for that, I think I got messed up with another fact I read up somewhere?
---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------
GBry said:
Thank you for the detailed explanation, now for my real question : can you plug a USB hub with multiple USB-A ports and a USB-C port and charge to this device through said port using any charger?
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This will mostly depend on the device itself, as well as the hub you may be using. This is because we are not certain what the manufacturer intended the product for. If you have a hub like the one you described, give it a go. It should work but if it doesn't, the worst that can happen is it doesn't do anything. No biggie!
Oh and also, just make sure that the charger you'll use is powerful enough, just to make sure that your host device will actually charge at a reasonable speed.