Develop Bugs

How should manufacturers differentiate

Hi Folks,
I wanted to share a concern of mine here.
Now that Microsoft governs EVERY aspect of hardware, how should manufacturers differentiate their offerings?
Will it just be by price and color of the case?

Price, design and storage capacity.
Unfortunately, they didn't tell them how to design their phones. Look at that LG crap, it's soooo ugly... that's not how they will be able to compete with the iPhone, which is what are apparently trying.
(granted, the iPhone's design is getting stale, but at least it's not ugly)

Screen size, type and quality, quality of camera, storage size, battery... But yes, there won't be much left for differentiation, although I personally find it great.

Keyboard or not keyboard.
Though it seems the OS doesn't work in landscape mode. Sucks, I hope they figure this out (though I doubt it).

You doubt that WP7 will have landscape mode?

It doesn't have it now.
And yes, I doubt that it will have it.
(I mean FULL landscape mode, not only messages and browser)

It doesn't work in the emulator but I've seen it in videos. It doesn't move the application bar but rotates the buttons. I'd say it makes sense on widescreen displays...They would have to do something with the homescreen though.

I've seen it in my own apps. But I want it to work in the whole system, INCLUDING the homescreen and every other place.

C:Sharp! said:
I've seen it in my own apps. But I want it to work in the whole system, INCLUDING the homescreen and every other place.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
this is an interesting direction this discussion is going.
I would think that they will have to support it somehow - lest manufacturers like LG will be unhappy.
On the other hand: the Pre has the exactly same issue. On it, many apps are portrait only and it has no issues with that.
How often do we really see someone (non poweruser) use the QWERTY? Be honest!

How often do we really see someone (non poweruser) use the QWERTY? Be honest!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I doubt WP7 will support it.
Microsoft is copying Apple's approach, which means they're not adding anything, unless lots of people want it.
I've written some apps for WP7 and landscape worked. But unless it works in the whole system, this OS is of no use to me.

TAMHAN said:
Hi Folks,
I wanted to share a concern of mine here.
Now that Microsoft governs EVERY aspect of hardware, how should manufacturers differentiate their offerings?
Will it just be by price and color of the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should differentiate by telling MS to screw their "specs" to some degree and put a d-pad/trackball/optical mouse on the front of the device where they belong. I like minimum hardware specs, but number of button specs and screen hardware is nonsense imo. Basically I want a device with multitouch resistive screen tech, and some sort of up-down-left-right control on the front of the device. Honestly, what would MS do if Samsung put an optical mouse and camera on the front of their device? Would they sue? I highly doubt it.
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice. I just upgraded to the Omnia II, and I'm missing a physical dpad in a HUGE way. I don't miss the kb all the much with swype, but this dpad thing was killing me. I remapped my volume rocker to up and down so it's not as bad...but if I couldn't do the same on a wp7 device <cringe>.
But to answer your question more directly...right now they'll have to focus on things like ergonomics and style. But I hope that the late success of the HD2 under t-mobile shows MS that people actually like the openness of WM they just didn't like the default device experience and that makes an impact on what wp7 will actually turn out to be.

gom99 said:
I think they should differentiate by telling MS to screw their "specs" to some degree and put a d-pad/trackball/optical mouse on the front of the device where they belong. I like minimum hardware specs, but number of button specs and screen hardware is nonsense imo. Basically I want a device with multitouch resistive screen tech, and some sort of up-down-left-right control on the front of the device. Honestly, what would MS do if Samsung put an optical mouse and camera on the front of their device? Would they sue? I highly doubt it.
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice. I just upgraded to the Omnia II, and I'm missing a physical dpad in a HUGE way. I don't miss the kb all the much with swype, but this dpad thing was killing me. I remapped my volume rocker to up and down so it's not as bad...but if I couldn't do the same on a wp7 device <cringe>.
But to answer your question more directly...right now they'll have to focus on things like ergonomics and style. But I hope that the late success of the HD2 under t-mobile shows MS that people actually like the openness of WM they just didn't like the default device experience and that makes an impact on what wp7 will actually turn out to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI is perfect for d-pad use, and I think it's ridiculous that they don't seem to be supporting it.

gom99 said:
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but no thanks. First you allow d-pad and next you see programs (games mostly, but not only) that don't function well without it. You allow OEMs to add non-standard controls and they start making drivers themselve, mucking up OS-wide conventions and standards (like HTC is doing with hardware keys left and right).
A d-pad might be a nice feature but if it's there it should be on all devices.

vangrieg said:
Thanks but no thanks. First you allow d-pad and next you see programs (games mostly, but not only) that don't function well without it. You allow OEMs to add non-standard controls and they start making drivers themselve, mucking up OS-wide conventions and standards (like HTC is doing with hardware keys left and right).
A d-pad might be a nice feature but if it's there it should be on all devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and your fragmentation ...optional keyboards already exist...you don't think that will come into play on games and applications? You can't keep a uniform xbox experience for a phone like you can for a console...people like different control. Heck even consoles are fragmented control wise, controllers, joysticks, steering wheels, guns, etc.
Let the people choose their controls they want for the task at hand.
We've had this discussion before, you fix this issue by having good sdks that allow you to easily create an application where you can set your controls based on your device.

I defintely need hardware buttons so I won't buy one unless it has a hardware keyboard. But we've seen tons of Windows Mobile devices and they all look different. Other then buttons and UI I'm sure that will follow to WP7. 3" to 5" screens, 8GB,16GB,32GB,64GB space. Color, material, qwerty. These will all be differentiaters.

gom99 said:
We've had this discussion before, you fix this issue by having good sdks that allow you to easily create an application where you can set your controls based on your device.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely. You can also require fallback controls for applications that require directional buttons - in the shape of on-screen d-pad, or other mechanisms, anything.
The problem is, there are no sdks and no requirements. Therefore I say - no, it should never be just up to manufacturers. It has to be delivered by the OS, with proper infrastructure in policies in place.
By the way, I've never seen any official requirement that the number of hardware keys is limited. There are mandatory keys, but nothing says there can't be more. Or does it? I know it's a popular idea in forums for sure, but there's no definitive source for this.

vangrieg said:
By the way, I've never seen any official requirement that the number of hardware keys is limited. There are mandatory keys, but nothing says there can't be more. Or does it? I know it's a popular idea in forums for sure, but there's no definitive source for this.
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Click to collapse
They're looking for the uniformity of the device, especially what the front of the device looks like with it's 3 buttons and the big mistake here is the lack of a d-pad-type control.
Also Microsoft issued a response saying that the hd2 had "too-many" buttons at MIX. So they seem to be sticking to their enforcement of device hardware key uniformity. But in my opinion it's silly...I honestly don't know how people Tolerate using the iphone with 2 buttons and a rocker.
Personally, I like D-pads/optical & physical trackballs, an ok/enter button, some kind of home key, and voice command buttons. I use the physical keys to control my device more than the touch screen, alot of my phone usuage is "one-hand" usage...primarily just thumb use.

Well, I'm not sure the wording used by MS meant exactly that, but anyway. I've used two devices without d-pad, the HD and the HD2, and also prefer one-handed operation with my thumb as the primary control. I must say that I miss d-pad occasionally, but exactly because some software developers didn't think about ways of handling their control elements without it. And therein lies the problem - relying on d-pad is just easy. Therefore if you know that some devices won't have it, you must force developers to write software that will work using other control mechanisms.

vangrieg said:
Well, I'm not sure the wording used by MS meant exactly that, but anyway. I've used two devices without d-pad, the HD and the HD2, and also prefer one-handed operation with my thumb as the primary control. I must say that I miss d-pad occasionally, but exactly because some software developers didn't think about ways of handling their control elements without it. And therein lies the problem - relying on d-pad is just easy. Therefore if you know that some devices won't have it, you must force developers to write software that will work using other control mechanisms.
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Click to collapse
Like you said I don't ever really miss the D-Pad until I use old applications that don't have good touch input set up. This is when I slide to landscape with my Touch Pro2 and use the arrow keys.

To differentiate themselves from other OEMS, they should produce better hardware. Hopefully this will drive the build quality of there devices thru the roof.

[Developers only]WPF vs Windows Runtime

Oh hay there,
I've been tasked with making an app for windows 8, that has to fulfill the following specifications.
I've been wondering weather i should use the win RT (metro API) or the windows presentation foundation (WPF) API to do it.
requirements:
Needs to be fast (winRT has a slight edge here due to Ahead of Time compilation, but WPF can be compiled ahead of time too)
Needs to be optimized for touch (it's a draw here, WPF can be made touch friendly and supported touch from day one)
Needs to be able to communicate in background with a number of sensors (WPF has the edge here, as it can access low-level OS components, and is also not restricted should it go to the background)
Needs to be easily modified to support new technologies (This one is a bit tougher. Modifying a winRT app takes a while, it needs around 7 days just to process certification, while an update to WPF can be delivered right away. On the other hand, winRT will probably have high level APIs to handle new technologies, whereas WPF will likely be stuck with the lower end of the API, which will make it harder to modify, especially to those not familiar with windows/.net architecture.)
Needs to run on tablet (WinRT has the edge, as it can run on arm-based tablets as well).
Needs to communicate via NFC, get GPS coordinates and take pictures (WPF can do this, but again, it has lower level APIs, which might be hard to adapt in the future)
Needs to be resilient to outside tampering (virus, trojan, malware etc)(WPF is not 100% sandboxed, it has nice runtime security, but the files it creates are not protected, winRT has the edge here)
I need some opinions. I will make my own decision, but I would like to hear some of your opinions first.
Don't ask what the app does, I'm not gonna tell you.

One thing that immediately stands out, GPS. Is this using the tablets integral GPS, a USB unit or a serial/bluetooth unit? If its not integral or USB (and even then, some USB ones are USB>serial adaptors followed by a serial unit) then WinRT wont function with it. You dont get any access to serial ports, parallel ports or the onboard i2c interface via WinRT. Everything is a higher level abstraction wrapping up low level functionality, you get not raw access to it yourself. Most of these tablets out will be using a serial GPS as that is what is most common (or possibly an i2c one but thats something I have never seen before) and WinRT will provide a nice set of wrappers to let you interface with the integral GPS only, but it wont give access to the serial port or the bluetooth serial profile which means it will ignore bluetooth, external serial or certain USB GPS devices. So yes, WPF would certainly have the edge there. But if we are just talking the GPS chip built into the tablet, WinRT will suffice and provides easy access to all onboard sensors, its only external ones that will cause headaches.
WinRT vs regular .NET speed wise likely wont make much difference. I'm not sure that WinRT is fully AoT dependant for its apps (except C/C++), I think it still falls back on .NET, and even if it is AoT the .NET JIT is almost as effective (and with some kludging can be set to AoT I think, mono certainly can and can cope with WPF applications).
I dont own a tablet so cant say too much on touch, I have only handled display model tablets. Tbh, I found most desktop apps annoying on tablets. even if you enlarge buttons and fonts to make them more touch friendly you can run into additional issues, a menu thats too long to fit on screen cant necessarily be scrolled with a touch friendly gesture (well, you can try, but your probably going to have to write some of your own code, might not be that hard actually, I havent tried). If the app is purely meant for touch then I would go WinRT unless there is a specific reason not to.
Updating taking 7 days I dont see as a major problem, everyone else does it and on numerous platforms. It may well take 1 day to integrate a new tech into a WinRT app and 2 weeks on the WPF app in which case the WinRT guys still get the new tech before WPF, or vice versa is equally likely.
NFC communications, GPS and cameras are all easily done in WinRT (with the previous restriction, device only, non external, I assume a webcam works though).
WinRT is probably the more secure option too.
If I were you I would write down each little thing the app needs to do in order to function, ie access a specific type of GPS (you already said you wont share, thats fine). Then go down the list and start ticking off which ones WinRT has the technology to do. We can pretty much assume that eventually WPF will also do it so there is little reason for a WPF checklist. If you get to the bottom of the list and WinRT is fully ticked off, then go with a WinRT app. If there are a few things missing, well then start to weigh up whether it would be better to try and get a WPF app playing nicely with touch and implementing a few things at a lower level or alter the design specification to fit WinRT, I assume there is a client involved here, if there are issues sit down with them and discuss your thoughts and see if they are happy with changes to go one way or the other.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
One thing that immediately stands out, GPS. Is this using the tablets integral GPS, a USB unit or a serial/bluetooth unit? If its not integral or USB (and even then, some USB ones are USB>serial adaptors followed by a serial unit) then WinRT wont function with it. You dont get any access to serial ports, parallel ports or the onboard i2c interface via WinRT. Everything is a higher level abstraction wrapping up low level functionality, you get not raw access to it yourself. Most of these tablets out will be using a serial GPS as that is what is most common (or possibly an i2c one but thats something I have never seen before) and WinRT will provide a nice set of wrappers to let you interface with the integral GPS only, but it wont give access to the serial port or the bluetooth serial profile which means it will ignore bluetooth, external serial or certain USB GPS devices. So yes, WPF would certainly have the edge there. But if we are just talking the GPS chip built into the tablet, WinRT will suffice and provides easy access to all onboard sensors, its only external ones that will cause headaches.
WinRT vs regular .NET speed wise likely wont make much difference. I'm not sure that WinRT is fully AoT dependant for its apps (except C/C++), I think it still falls back on .NET, and even if it is AoT the .NET JIT is almost as effective (and with some kludging can be set to AoT I think, mono certainly can and can cope with WPF applications).
I dont own a tablet so cant say too much on touch, I have only handled display model tablets. Tbh, I found most desktop apps annoying on tablets. even if you enlarge buttons and fonts to make them more touch friendly you can run into additional issues, a menu thats too long to fit on screen cant necessarily be scrolled with a touch friendly gesture (well, you can try, but your probably going to have to write some of your own code, might not be that hard actually, I havent tried). If the app is purely meant for touch then I would go WinRT unless there is a specific reason not to.
Updating taking 7 days I dont see as a major problem, everyone else does it and on numerous platforms. It may well take 1 day to integrate a new tech into a WinRT app and 2 weeks on the WPF app in which case the WinRT guys still get the new tech before WPF, or vice versa is equally likely.
NFC communications, GPS and cameras are all easily done in WinRT (with the previous restriction, device only, non external, I assume a webcam works though).
WinRT is probably the more secure option too.
If I were you I would write down each little thing the app needs to do in order to function, ie access a specific type of GPS (you already said you wont share, thats fine). Then go down the list and start ticking off which ones WinRT has the technology to do. We can pretty much assume that eventually WPF will also do it so there is little reason for a WPF checklist. If you get to the bottom of the list and WinRT is fully ticked off, then go with a WinRT app. If there are a few things missing, well then start to weigh up whether it would be better to try and get a WPF app playing nicely with touch and implementing a few things at a lower level or alter the design specification to fit WinRT, I assume there is a client involved here, if there are issues sit down with them and discuss your thoughts and see if they are happy with changes to go one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response
The tablet picked for this job has the following minimum requirements:
Intel z2760 atom processor (apparently, they prefer x86 over ARM)
2 GB of RAM
NFC, GPS, Bluetooth (integrated, as in the tablet has no external USB adapted sensors or something)
mini USB
front camera 2 MP
back camera 8 MP
64GB storage
It's basicaly an asus vivo tab smart.
I suppose the GPS and NFC are built in. I haven't developed much with winRT, so i don't know all the ins and outs.
Btw, did Mono get WPF working? Last time I checked they said WPF was too large scale for them to port.

mcosmin222 said:
Thanks for the response
The tablet picked for this job has the following minimum requirements:
Intel z2760 atom processor (apparently, they prefer x86 over ARM)
2 GB of RAM
NFC, GPS, Bluetooth (integrated, as in the tablet has no external USB adapted sensors or something)
mini USB
front camera 2 MP
back camera 8 MP
64GB storage
It's basicaly an asus vivo tab smart.
I suppose the GPS and NFC are built in. I haven't developed much with winRT, so i don't know all the ins and outs.
Btw, did Mono get WPF working? Last time I checked they said WPF was too large scale for them to port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I heard 8.1 gives winRT extended device driver capabilities.
Maybe it will work fine by then...

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we decided to go for WPF^^

mcosmin222 said:
Well, we decided to go for WPF^^
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Click to collapse
Well, if microsoft gets something right, that is the .net framework.
Kinda funny I can actually call winRT assemblies from WPF(non UI ones ofc).

Did an external CAPACITIVE screen just get easier?

I have long since dreamed of a car-puter or workstation that simply my phone expanded. All apps and files would automatically travel with you and the whole system would automatically get upgraded, for free, every time you upgraded your phone.
Mirroring images and sound can be done many ways, but the problem has always been inputs from the larger screen making their way to your phone. There are a few work-arounds with resistive screens, but they look junky, have low sensitivity and don't allow multitouch.
The holy grail has always been full 2-way comm with an external capacitive screen. This is the first time I have ever seen a capacitive screen that lists 10-point capacitive touch as a feature for Android and that has Android drivers downloadable in the 'documents' tab of their product page.
http://lilliputweb.net/capacitive-touch-screen-monitors/7-inch-multi-touch/779gl-70np-c-t.html
Does this really mean what I think it does?!? I know that drivers in android are far from as simple as an executable file in windows. But does this mean that with a little work any of us could make this monitor play nicely with our own devices? Or ideally could a person or two (with more skill than I have) make this monitor plug and play with a common distro like cyanogenmod or the like?
Any thoughts from any of the more experienced minds in these forums would be VERY appreciated. PS. I love this forum and wish I had the time and the chops to add more to it myself, but in the meantime thank you to all contributes. Cheers.

NVIDIA SHIELD Android TV Box Review Or: How I learned to dislike the Shield TV

I’d like to start off by saying some of these views are totally personal to me, and how I use these kind of boxes day to day. I have been looking at the NVIDIA Shield TV 16gb model, with the controller and remote.
The Shield TV is right at the top of list of Android TV boxes, it has the spec and the features to make it a future proof Android TV box. The Tegra X1 makes it incredibly fast and snappy. I found myself clicking around with ease, without a single stutter.
The initial setup was easy, once turned on, I did a couple of updates and was logged straight into the Shield TV home screen. This leanback launcher can only be controlled with the “dpad” on either the controller or the remote. There are various rows, including suggestions, Nvidia apps and your own downloaded apps. The suggestion row is bizarre, as I have no idea what the recommendations are based on. I can alter what sources are used (Youtube, Google TV/Movies etc), but the recommendation engine isn’t very good.
Installing apps is easy, but this may be due to the lack of apps you can download. I found very little of my daily driver apps to download, and had to resort to second or even third rate alternatives. This isn’t really NVIDIA’s fault, as this is more an issue with Android TV. Apps have to be compatible and made for the “leanback” generation. Apps like Solid Explorer, TTorrent, and Transdroid are always installed on any Android box, but I was unable to here.
There are ways around these app limitations, involving sideloading, and alternative launchers. But I just want to install an app and use it, I don’t want to have to turn around the box so it’s facing east, wait till the time includes a 9 and then chant whilst installing an APK file! This may be a slight exaggeration though.
Though I was happy to see Kodi and SPMC were compatible. Though SPMC is the only one which utilising the passthrough audio correctly. So I installed SPMC, and plugged in my external HDD and started updating. Now came another issue, I always delete the files via SPMC after watching, and set it to physically delete the file. This has worked on even the worst Android boxes, but on the Shield TV it didn’t. The app would “delete”, yet when I went back and updated, the show/movie came back. After some Googling I found this was a common problem for a lot of people.
I ended up installing one of the two FTP servers on the TV app store, and connected via FTP. Selected the file, delete, but just got back an error! This again was a widely reported issue, and I ended up having to install ES File Explorer (Ugh!) and delete the file that way. Finally I was able to do it. But this was after a couple of hours of research. That was one of the big nails in the coffin for me.
I even reported this to the NVIDIA support team, and they weren’t very helpful. I was passed around a lot, and was sent to level 2 support about 3 times, only to be told to do something I had initially told support I had done!
I am so glad I got the box with the remote, as I was getting annoying navigating around with the bulky controller. I would of liked the remote to be included, and the controller to be sold separately, though I can see why as there is the gaming element.
Now speaking of games, I was massively impressed with the SHIELD games app. There is a long list of games you can play, some for free and some have to be purchases, you check them all out here shield.nvidia.com/games/android
Playing Batman Arkham City, I didn’t notice a single bit of lag in the controls. They were quick and easy to pick up, and felt just like a console game. This alone is a great feature, and I would totally buy a lower priced box, if it just offered this feature and nothing else.
I was happy to see that the thumb sticks on the controller could act like a mouse, but only on some apps. This was my next issue, I use an app called TTorrent, as it does exactly what I want, but this cannot be navigated with the remote or the controller. So now I had to get a bluetooth mouse, which works, but I am now using 3 bloody controllers to navigate one box. Why not give the remote air mouse properties, and then everything would be great.
If they released just a console version of this, for £129 then I would probably buy it. But for what I used my Android boxes for, and how I use them, this box is just too restricted to work into my life. That’s not to say it won’t be awesome for the other 99% of the people out there, this is just my opinion.
http://droidhorizon.com/nvidia-shield-android-tv-box-review/

I cant tell you how many cuss word filled rants I've started typing in the google and nvidia feedback activities expressing many of these same feelings. Sometimes I even avoid messing with it altogether just to prevent the rage I feel about some of the implementations (or deliberate omittance of) by google who for whatever reason decided to cripple these devices with whatever nonsense ideas they have in their heads when they are making their decisions about what the "leanback" experience should be like. Maybe it makes a little sense to limit some parts of Android Auto but I cant believe what I'm seeing in my living room. Its absurd. Then I just delete it like a good end user and try to focus on the things that it does do really well. The device itself is awesome but being a tinkerer makes for a lot of frustration and it totally blows my mind seeing what I think is a perfect example of the direction I think google intends to take with the Android OS

Let's talk about DeX

Moving from Tab S2 to S4 there were a lot of changes to get used to, some good, some bad. A good change was the S-Pen. At first I thought it was a waste of time. It was very awkward for me at first, but now I use it almost all the time.
I'm wondering if DeX is another "awkward change". I've played with DeX for a few minutes at a time on my TV with and without an external keyboard and mouse, but not much on the tablet by itself. Nothing has jumped out as superior in touchscreen / tablet mode. I'll say it does work better with a keyboard and mouse, especially for Microsoft Office products that utilize "right click". But here, I'm talking about touch screen / S-Pen, no external keyboard, mouse, or display.
Does anyone use DeX as their primary tablet mode? If so please post what you think is better for DeX vs stock Android. Why are you running in DeX!, and what are the advantages & benefits you are getting?
As an experiment, I'm going to try using the tablet in DeX mode for a week. I'm sure there will be times I have to revert to stock Android, but I'll post again next Saturday to say what I've learned.
Thanks,
Joe

I've been running SystemUI Tuner beta for about 10 days - since my Samsung Galaxy Tab S4 was upgraded to Pie. I missed the WiFi indicator. So I established permissions and had everything working. The SystemUI status app was always running because it is Samsung. In DeX, I had Moon+ Reader open but minimized, Firefox Beta downloading a file and was opening ES File Explorer when SystemUI went bat-crap crazy. It started opening instance after instance and froze the screen. After a few minutes it went blackscreen with the DeX logo. The power button wouldn't reboot it. After another 5 minutes or so,it popped up a message that SystemUI was not responding. Eventually it was able to reboot and I uninstalled SystemUI.
I'd really like to get the WiFi indicator back to the status bar, but I'm nervous to risk turning it back on. It was terrifying when I was locked an couldn't reboot. I sent an email to the SystemUI administrator.
Very scary experience only a few hours into my DeX marathon.
Joe

So I gave it up on day three. Too many things missing.
1) No widgets. We've had two thunderstorms with hail since Sunday. The AccuWeather widget is too important to miss. You can use Dex Max to float widgets over open windows, but not what I'm after.
2) No icon packs. I like my icons. My desktop wallpaper is admitantly busy - a photo of a brook in Maine. It is hard to read the white labels under the icons, and I can't see a way to change the text color.
3) Locked on the default Samsung keyboard. I'm a SwiftKey user.
4) One desktop. I'm a product development engineer at a semiconductor company. At work, I have four screens on my PC. not only does this give me the ability to have multiple open documents, it gives me four desktops. The only time I'm limited to a single desktop is when traveling with my laptop.
5) Can't use extended desktop with HDMI
6) Multiple apps have problems running in DeX without being maximized. Some of this may be due to forcing apps to resize.
7) I think there could be memory issues. When switching out of DeX, every app I used while in Dex. Would be open in the recent apps windows. After a long session there were more than 30 open apps, all that I had closed in Dex.
Anyhow, it took 2-1/2 days to lose patience.
Take care,
Joe

Yeap, the random stuck screen...I had that just recently.couldnt shut down or force shut down for some time.
Also some apps wont resize at all in DeX, which is a huge pain when watching a movie and doing emails as an example.
At this point I'm using the regular screen, bonded mode.
I like widgets.
I like my swipe up and down actions.
I like my easy to get to bluetooth and wifi toggles.
I like resizing the screens to what ever size I want.
I like minimizing process.
I hope DeX gets an update, right now its not very useful for me.
KC

DeX is not meant to enhance the tablet experience but rather provide the user with a desktop-like experience for those occasions where the user would prefer to work that way....say on a bigger screen with and external keyboard and mouse for limited business/professional applications or to develop in Linux.
Works pretty good for word processing, spreadsheets and photo editing. Media consumption, just use plain Android.

bill-e said:
Works pretty good for word processing, spreadsheets and photo editing. Media consumption, just use plain Android.
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I wish I could use it for word processing, but I discovered that Word can't open two files at the same time and copy/paste from one to another. This made dex almost useless for me
Inviato dal mio SM-T830 utilizzando Tapatalk

gabripranzo said:
I wish I could use it for word processing, but I discovered that Word can't open two files at the same time and copy/paste from one to another. This made dex almost useless for me
Inviato dal mio SM-T830 utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
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Try Libreoffice under Linux on DeX. Works great and can have many documents open.

bill-e said:
Try Libreoffice under Linux on DeX. Works great and can have many documents open.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but it's a bit complicated. I have Office 365 and I wish I could use it both at work (Windows) and when I have my tablet with dex. I think Samsung and Microsoft should work together to make android a platform which can really be used for business, which unfortunately it is not yet, even with dex.
Inviato dal mio SM-T830 utilizzando Tapatalk

I think Office on DeX is much more usable than the stock Android version. If you have a mouse. I don't understand why right-click copy / paste is anathema to stock Android. I totally agree that you should be able to open multiple documents for all the Office programs. And multiple Abobe Acrobat pdf files. It's crazy you have to open files in two different apps to have two of a type open.
Hooking up to a TV is clunky - you need the power, adaptor, bulky HDMI cable, not conveniently done. And no extended desktop. The S4 is big enough I've stopped using my laptop to remote in to my PC at work - Microsoft Remote Desktop works fine on the S4. DeX should be as good.
I've kept playing some with DeX - Desktop Browser by the same developer who does Desktop Hub, lets you open multiple browser windows - awesome feature, worth a couple-three bucks for the paid version. I may get the Pro version of Desktop Hub too, to try the start menu feature - is anyone using it? It is more expensive than the browser... $10 I think...

It has been a few months (well, more than a few months), but I have some more observations.
Quirks and oddities
So first, I now have a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. It is interesting to me that the mouse seems locked to the DeX monitor, but the keyboard is active on both the DeX monitor and tablet. I have video playing on the DeX monitor and the mouse is locked to it, but I am typing this message on a browser on my tablet. It seem the keyboard follows active input windows.
Second, I found a nice perk. So I like to read on my tablet while sports is running on the TV. Typically, this is casting the Indians onto the TV via Foxsportsgo and chromecast. Browns games are harder. To get the Browns I usually need to got to streaming sites that are stuffed with pop-ups and ad bait. The best way to get video going is to use a good ad-blocking browser, and I haven't found one with built in cast. So you either need to mirror the screen (and not run other programs) or run it on the tablet. Some video sources let you run in split screen mode, others don't. So best case I end up with the game on the top third of my tablet and the book two-thirds of the screen below. Relatedly mirroring the screen, unless things have changed, is garbage -- either casting or HDMI. Casting gives the message "not optimized for mirroring".
So I tried today connecting via DeX and running Firefox Beta with ad blockers streaming an NFL game on the TV, and reading my book on my tablet, and voila! Works well!
Let me know if anyone else has found anything new.
Joe

This all may only be interesting to me, but I'll keep posting anyways ?
So two new observations :
1) DeX for Windows does _not_ work with the Tab S4. Of course, they say it only currently works for the S10, but I tried it anyways.
2) New feature in Outlook for Android inside of DeX - you can open multiple emails in separate, independent windows. Very nice festure.
Joe