Hi Folks,
I wanted to share a concern of mine here.
Now that Microsoft governs EVERY aspect of hardware, how should manufacturers differentiate their offerings?
Will it just be by price and color of the case?
Price, design and storage capacity.
Unfortunately, they didn't tell them how to design their phones. Look at that LG crap, it's soooo ugly... that's not how they will be able to compete with the iPhone, which is what are apparently trying.
(granted, the iPhone's design is getting stale, but at least it's not ugly)
Screen size, type and quality, quality of camera, storage size, battery... But yes, there won't be much left for differentiation, although I personally find it great.
Keyboard or not keyboard.
Though it seems the OS doesn't work in landscape mode. Sucks, I hope they figure this out (though I doubt it).
You doubt that WP7 will have landscape mode?
It doesn't have it now.
And yes, I doubt that it will have it.
(I mean FULL landscape mode, not only messages and browser)
It doesn't work in the emulator but I've seen it in videos. It doesn't move the application bar but rotates the buttons. I'd say it makes sense on widescreen displays...They would have to do something with the homescreen though.
I've seen it in my own apps. But I want it to work in the whole system, INCLUDING the homescreen and every other place.
C:Sharp! said:
I've seen it in my own apps. But I want it to work in the whole system, INCLUDING the homescreen and every other place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
this is an interesting direction this discussion is going.
I would think that they will have to support it somehow - lest manufacturers like LG will be unhappy.
On the other hand: the Pre has the exactly same issue. On it, many apps are portrait only and it has no issues with that.
How often do we really see someone (non poweruser) use the QWERTY? Be honest!
How often do we really see someone (non poweruser) use the QWERTY? Be honest!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I doubt WP7 will support it.
Microsoft is copying Apple's approach, which means they're not adding anything, unless lots of people want it.
I've written some apps for WP7 and landscape worked. But unless it works in the whole system, this OS is of no use to me.
TAMHAN said:
Hi Folks,
I wanted to share a concern of mine here.
Now that Microsoft governs EVERY aspect of hardware, how should manufacturers differentiate their offerings?
Will it just be by price and color of the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should differentiate by telling MS to screw their "specs" to some degree and put a d-pad/trackball/optical mouse on the front of the device where they belong. I like minimum hardware specs, but number of button specs and screen hardware is nonsense imo. Basically I want a device with multitouch resistive screen tech, and some sort of up-down-left-right control on the front of the device. Honestly, what would MS do if Samsung put an optical mouse and camera on the front of their device? Would they sue? I highly doubt it.
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice. I just upgraded to the Omnia II, and I'm missing a physical dpad in a HUGE way. I don't miss the kb all the much with swype, but this dpad thing was killing me. I remapped my volume rocker to up and down so it's not as bad...but if I couldn't do the same on a wp7 device <cringe>.
But to answer your question more directly...right now they'll have to focus on things like ergonomics and style. But I hope that the late success of the HD2 under t-mobile shows MS that people actually like the openness of WM they just didn't like the default device experience and that makes an impact on what wp7 will actually turn out to be.
gom99 said:
I think they should differentiate by telling MS to screw their "specs" to some degree and put a d-pad/trackball/optical mouse on the front of the device where they belong. I like minimum hardware specs, but number of button specs and screen hardware is nonsense imo. Basically I want a device with multitouch resistive screen tech, and some sort of up-down-left-right control on the front of the device. Honestly, what would MS do if Samsung put an optical mouse and camera on the front of their device? Would they sue? I highly doubt it.
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice. I just upgraded to the Omnia II, and I'm missing a physical dpad in a HUGE way. I don't miss the kb all the much with swype, but this dpad thing was killing me. I remapped my volume rocker to up and down so it's not as bad...but if I couldn't do the same on a wp7 device <cringe>.
But to answer your question more directly...right now they'll have to focus on things like ergonomics and style. But I hope that the late success of the HD2 under t-mobile shows MS that people actually like the openness of WM they just didn't like the default device experience and that makes an impact on what wp7 will actually turn out to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI is perfect for d-pad use, and I think it's ridiculous that they don't seem to be supporting it.
gom99 said:
Let to OEM take care of their controls, and MS should just focus on making the software experience nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but no thanks. First you allow d-pad and next you see programs (games mostly, but not only) that don't function well without it. You allow OEMs to add non-standard controls and they start making drivers themselve, mucking up OS-wide conventions and standards (like HTC is doing with hardware keys left and right).
A d-pad might be a nice feature but if it's there it should be on all devices.
vangrieg said:
Thanks but no thanks. First you allow d-pad and next you see programs (games mostly, but not only) that don't function well without it. You allow OEMs to add non-standard controls and they start making drivers themselve, mucking up OS-wide conventions and standards (like HTC is doing with hardware keys left and right).
A d-pad might be a nice feature but if it's there it should be on all devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and your fragmentation ...optional keyboards already exist...you don't think that will come into play on games and applications? You can't keep a uniform xbox experience for a phone like you can for a console...people like different control. Heck even consoles are fragmented control wise, controllers, joysticks, steering wheels, guns, etc.
Let the people choose their controls they want for the task at hand.
We've had this discussion before, you fix this issue by having good sdks that allow you to easily create an application where you can set your controls based on your device.
I defintely need hardware buttons so I won't buy one unless it has a hardware keyboard. But we've seen tons of Windows Mobile devices and they all look different. Other then buttons and UI I'm sure that will follow to WP7. 3" to 5" screens, 8GB,16GB,32GB,64GB space. Color, material, qwerty. These will all be differentiaters.
gom99 said:
We've had this discussion before, you fix this issue by having good sdks that allow you to easily create an application where you can set your controls based on your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. You can also require fallback controls for applications that require directional buttons - in the shape of on-screen d-pad, or other mechanisms, anything.
The problem is, there are no sdks and no requirements. Therefore I say - no, it should never be just up to manufacturers. It has to be delivered by the OS, with proper infrastructure in policies in place.
By the way, I've never seen any official requirement that the number of hardware keys is limited. There are mandatory keys, but nothing says there can't be more. Or does it? I know it's a popular idea in forums for sure, but there's no definitive source for this.
vangrieg said:
By the way, I've never seen any official requirement that the number of hardware keys is limited. There are mandatory keys, but nothing says there can't be more. Or does it? I know it's a popular idea in forums for sure, but there's no definitive source for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're looking for the uniformity of the device, especially what the front of the device looks like with it's 3 buttons and the big mistake here is the lack of a d-pad-type control.
Also Microsoft issued a response saying that the hd2 had "too-many" buttons at MIX. So they seem to be sticking to their enforcement of device hardware key uniformity. But in my opinion it's silly...I honestly don't know how people Tolerate using the iphone with 2 buttons and a rocker.
Personally, I like D-pads/optical & physical trackballs, an ok/enter button, some kind of home key, and voice command buttons. I use the physical keys to control my device more than the touch screen, alot of my phone usuage is "one-hand" usage...primarily just thumb use.
Well, I'm not sure the wording used by MS meant exactly that, but anyway. I've used two devices without d-pad, the HD and the HD2, and also prefer one-handed operation with my thumb as the primary control. I must say that I miss d-pad occasionally, but exactly because some software developers didn't think about ways of handling their control elements without it. And therein lies the problem - relying on d-pad is just easy. Therefore if you know that some devices won't have it, you must force developers to write software that will work using other control mechanisms.
vangrieg said:
Well, I'm not sure the wording used by MS meant exactly that, but anyway. I've used two devices without d-pad, the HD and the HD2, and also prefer one-handed operation with my thumb as the primary control. I must say that I miss d-pad occasionally, but exactly because some software developers didn't think about ways of handling their control elements without it. And therein lies the problem - relying on d-pad is just easy. Therefore if you know that some devices won't have it, you must force developers to write software that will work using other control mechanisms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like you said I don't ever really miss the D-Pad until I use old applications that don't have good touch input set up. This is when I slide to landscape with my Touch Pro2 and use the arrow keys.
To differentiate themselves from other OEMS, they should produce better hardware. Hopefully this will drive the build quality of there devices thru the roof.
Related
Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.
Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.
Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)
RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.
Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.
The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)
Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.
Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People
burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.
The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.
^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.
Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.
So, who have had time to look at the UI Design and Interaction Guide? I see everyone's busy discussing and defining multitasking, but isn't this newly released document the most interesting thing to have come out of Mix so far? I think.
I've just skimmed through it but first of all I love that Microsoft FINALLY provied a sleek GUI framework out of the box for app development! Of course, it was expected with Silverlight support and all, but it's nice to get it confirmed. I'm talking about stuff such as
-Gesture support
-Finger friendly controls
-Smooth scrolling panels
I know all these things have been possible before, but not with ease. Coming from the .NET CF world, I've had to spend a lot of time enabling such featurse in my apps. And they're not as slick as I expect them to be in WP7.
The UI is what most needed improvement for the apps on Windows Phones to be competitive with iPhone apps. This will lower the threshold for developers to create smooth, impressive apps. This will increase competitiveness for Windows Phones, which in turn will benefit us, the developers - enlarging our market.
Agree? ..or are most guys at this not that concerned with monetizing on their apps?
I've downloaded it but not had chance to look through yet as I'm at work.
Whilst I'm pretty unsure still about the whole marketplace-only, no FS support stuff, I am quite excited about the new development stuff. Like you say, nice interface controls will be there ready to use instead of having to rely on hacks and third party stuff to achieve something approaching half-decent.
I'm glad this is available already, the more time the better, and it makes sense really as MS will want their appstore pretty well populated at launch to compete with iPhone and Android.
Nilzor said:
So, who have had time to look at the UI Design and Interaction Guide?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did. Found out that there are no file open/save controls. Immediately realized that until a jailbreak comes out there's no way I'm buying a WP7S phone, despite the many things I love about this new OS.
Only 4 "accent colors" plus 1 manufacturer color.
The accent colors are ORANGE, RED, BLUE and GREEN.
Why 4? Why cant the user change it from color palette selection?
I would love to use BLACK or DARK BLUE or blue grey ala iPhone !
I just cannot understand this accent color limitation
if found something interesting in the guide. a windows mobile 7 handy have same number of buttons as a hd2 .
1. Power/Sleep
2. Volume
3. Screen
4. Camera
5. Back
6. Start
7. Search
So, the only difference is the layout.
It's a very valuable document, thanks.
We'd like Microsoft deliver more samples to provide a sort of a framework with frequently used patterns.
In any case Silverlight applications look fantastic.
vangrieg said:
I did. Found out that there are no file open/save controls. Immediately realized that until a jailbreak comes out there's no way I'm buying a WP7S phone, despite the many things I love about this new OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is your goal here? Do you want to store data for the App or are you trying to write a FileExplorer app?
tyrannus said:
What is your goal here? Do you want to store data for the App or are you trying to write a FileExplorer app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I need file storage as a user, not as a developer. Anyone who tried to transfer files to the iPhone for third party programs knows it's a PITA.
Microsoft is simply trying to protect you from yourself and the dangers of unauthorized text files and colors.
MooGoo said:
Microsoft is simply trying to protect you from yourself and the dangers of unauthorized text files and colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I know first hand just how nasty those text files can be .. omg HAX~
and colors?!?... watch yoursnelves. any more then 5 and we've got a global disaster on our hands.
surely ms wouldnt release an updated version of an os with less features?.. would they?
copenhagen said:
+1
I know first hand just how nasty those text files can be .. omg HAX~
and colors?!?... watch yoursnelves. any more then 5 and we've got a global disaster on our hands.
surely ms wouldnt release an updated version of an os with less features?.. would they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While lack of colours seems weird, I'm sure it could be easily implemented.
Less features? Laughable, considering what WM6 is.
Lumic said:
While lack of colours seems weird, I'm sure it could be easily implemented.
Less features? Laughable, considering what WM6 is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea just like other other weird things that could be easily implemented, like multitasking, cut & paste, file system access, and having a user accessible SD card slot.
I don't know if you saw the leaked specsheets for the Dell Lightning, but that thing comes with an 8GB miniSD card, user-upgradable.
Yes, it is upgradeable if you don't mind voiding your warranty and tearing apart your entire phone. On the plus side however, removing the battery cover on my Rhodium to get access to the SD slot doesn't seem quite as annoying anymore.
First paragraph:
http://www.techautos.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-7-series-hardware-requirements/
Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks
If you use a lot of MS services and depend on Exchange then WP7 will be for you.
Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.
Sir. Haxalot said:
Personally I don't really like Android. It just feels overall unfinished (and often quite sluggish) and all held together with alot of different 3rd party apps, and the fact that 3rd party apps can replace the homescreen, SMS function etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think WP7 is more of the future of the ppc. Information will presented in more of a real time and fluid manner while incorporating both work and personal agendas. Third party applications will be enhancements of course, but they won't necessary to hold an OS platform together as we see currently with WM, iOS and Android. The concept of having apps to simply have apps is kind of annoying to me. I want great applications not millions of applications.
Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.
crow26 said:
Android wins hands down.
Apart from XBox gaming, WP7 offers absolutely nothing that Android can not do. And Android does everything better.
Android provides a much better user experience, because you can get things done much more quickly.
This is because there are no limitations that require complex workarounds and because you can customize Android much easier to get the information you want and do the things you want to do faster.
WP7 is limited and does not provide anything that Android hasn't done before.
Re vetvito: Android has better Exchange support than WP7!
Android's Exchange support is now 100%. WP7's Exchange support lacks lots of features, such as GAL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...
rruffman said:
can android pin anything to its start screen?? like fav songs, artist, albums, games, the list goes onnnn wp7 can pin pretty much anything and as far as "you can get things done much more quickly" i would think the home screen would be the simplest and fastest so not sure where you are getting you facts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?
tjhart85 said:
No, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an app for it if it's actually a feature anyone wants.
Personally, I don't see the usefulness of having individual songs pinned to the homescreen, but that doesn't mean anything. Android is very customizable and it doesn't matter at all what I'd want (or what Google would want for that matter) because someone can just make it happen.
Depending on the app you use to play music, you can pin a playlist to the home screen which I could see being useful (not for me, but for others).
Games you can definitely pin to the homescreen though.
This is basically the same as Windows 7 being able to pin apps to the Task Bar. This is something that is pretty useful for me (for the apps I use all the time), but most people I know absolutely hate it.
But, if it's something people want, an app can be made. Can an app make your phone multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here we go with the multi task again... the fact is no need for app or someone to make one in wp7 you can pin "ANYTHING" to the start screen. next on to the so called "multi task" yes you can run some services in the background on android but apps are also killed in addroid as well only they have access to certain services to kepp things seem to be running..
WP7:
1. App is running in the forderground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. App is frozen in the Flash memory and only some threads are still running
4. App is not running
Andriod
1. App is running in the foreground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. Just a portion of an app is running in the background as a service, the main app is deflated and residing in memory, or has been killed, leaving only the service.
4. App is not running, but is still in Memory in a deflated state until RAM runs out.
5. App is killed and not residing in memory. It may leave call to the OS to revive it periodically when conditions are met.
and no an app cannot be made for wp7.. but when this is updated to allow 3rd party apps to access these services then what will you say??? you sure cant get an app to help the andriod slugish interface to work better or an app to correct the fragmentation in androids os.. keep trying though..
Biges said:
Hi!
I'm a fan of resistive touchscreens, therefore I currently to stay with WM (or I could switch to Symbian).
Would I be open to switching to a capacitive-based phone, I'd probably go for Android. Now WP7 is out and I'm curious, what does it actually offer over Android phones? A different user interface and support for M$ games (for that I have my PC), so why, in your opinion, should s user interested basically in a phone/organizer/messages/e-book reader switch to WP7 instead of another system?
I don't intend this as a clash topic like "which system is better", I'm just curious.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share your sentiments. Resistive is much better...............
I also think constantly what is the way to go.
For me a massive turn on in WP7 is consistent, simple, modern UI experience
the whole OS seems great and modern, with no fragmentation or too much eyecandy.
BUT there are cruical lacks which makes - at launch - WP7 crippled.
Android in reverse is kind of complete with functionality.
I observe how Microsoft will react and what will plan.
Definitely - I can't live without beeing able to choose whatever attachement I want in email
for instance.
So for me obesrvation, and decision to be made once these WP7 devices will come to Poland.
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice Read!!! you really tell it like it is. I personaly never owned an andriod but i have had friends and you are correct about the apps i tried to install wifi teather on my friends phone and ALL of the apps i could never set the encrypton and 2 out of 3 didnt even work!!! so i can understans where you are comming from..
I too stated for all the droid fanboys to post their comments in the android boards...
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
Fragmentation is a huge problem with Android, Microsoft knew about this problem, hell it killed off Windows Mobile because of it. Between all the different hardware specs, and UI changes it's a nightmare to keep everything on the same version let alone run efficiently. Since Google will never remove the ability to change to core experience, each Android phone will be vastly different when changing OEMs, what works on an HTC device won't work on a Samsung. What works on a Samsung won't work on a Motorola, etc.
The hardware fragmentation is also a huge killer for android. They can't optimize the OS for specific hardware when you have to support low tiered devices as well. Not to mention the fact it is run inside a Virtual Machine, so you take a performance hit there.
Software updates are the main thing that has been turning me off from Android, both as a developer, and a user. You write an application for one version of Android, but 60% of phones don't have that version(froyo), so you start removing things or tweaking things trying to get it to work on lower hardware, and you end up with a mess. Not to mention OS updates don't come out for every device. We STILL have people stuck on Android 1.5, and they are still at the mercy of the OEM or the carrier. Custom UIs and OEM changes have been ****ing up the OS updates for a long time. I remember back when I had the Hero how long I had to wait to get 2.x, meanwhile the Droid was just launched, the Nexus One was annoucned, it was horrible when all these new apps come out that support the latest OS and you are stuck on an older version.
Sure while the customizability of android is great, some of you Android zealots have to stop and ask yourself, is too much customization a bad thing?
take a look at the iPhone(don't flame me here, is just an example ) the iPhone 3G, which released before the G1 is capable of running the LATEST version of iOS. It wasn't left behind because of some OEM changes, or because of older hardware. Apple knows that people are still in a contract with it, so they continue to support it for atleast 2 years. Sure while it may not have all the features of it's bigger brothers(3GS and 4) that is because it is limited by it's hardware and not because of semantics because Apple wants to push it's latest phone.
Honestly I'm sick of all these Android zealots bashing Windows Phone 7 because it's missing feature x, or feature y. All WP7 devices will be updated in a timely manner and on a regular basis. Hell MS even stated that Copy and Paste which couldn't make it into the launch build will be released with the OSes first update in the Spring. Not to mention the fact that rumor has it the same update will bring multi tasking as well. IF MS is as good with their WP7 updates as they are with their Xbox 360 or prior zune updates, then I have no doubts in my mind they will easily overtake Android in terms of features and usability(I think they already did the former already )
I'm glad MS chose to set a strict set of hardware requirements, as this allows us as a consumer to experience WP7 in the way it was intended, not how the OEM thought it should be. This allows EVERY device to get new OS updates, as well as makes things less likely to go wrong during an update.
With a set platform to develop for, not to mention MS created drivers, the WP7 experience will be extremely smooth, and something Android fanboys can only dream of.
Why is it my extremely powerful phone(Galaxy S) still has lag when entering and exiting menus and applications, even with lag fixes and custom ROMs? When the OS is made for a generic set of hardware you get a sub standard experience(just look at the HD2), but when the OS is created around a specific set of hardware, you get what is called "synergy"
Also to the person who said Android can do things faster than WP7, let's compare a simple task like taking a picture while something is happening and you want to get it on photo or video...
Android:
Take phone out of pocket
Press unlock key
Swipe to unlock or press menu
Navigate to home screen(if not already there)
Find Camera application(hope it's on your home screen)/ Or press camera button(if phone is equipped)
Take Photo(if the moment isn't over by now )
WP7:
Take phone out of pocket
Hold Camera button
Take Photo
Guess which one I and most users would want....
Sorry for my dissertation on that, but I've just become enraged by all these Android zealots who feel threatened by Microsoft's new OS. If you aren't interested in WP7 and feel like defending Android, go to the Android boards, not here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - taking photo is faster with WP7. And what about copying music to your phone? Is Zune Syncing faster than drag-and-drop? And what if I want to copy something from a friend's computer? Installing Zune just to do that? It's the "Apple aproach" that's just a deal breaker for me. I never believed that MS will drop so low. Telling people what thay are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do (a change of the UI is absolutely forbidden by MS) is just the thing that turned me off the iPhone and made me stick with WM (android was in the very early stages back then). I can't understand why so many people here didn't like the iPhone and are now exited about the WP7?!? I did't miss application consistency with WM, why on earth will this be so important with WP? And you think that OS fragmentation is just an Android flaw? Well guess what - it's WP7 1.0 now. Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
And for the last part of your post - it's been 3 days since MS released the WP7 and already some people are trying to say what others should do or not... you catch up pretty quick.
tkolev said:
Do you honestly think that all the manufacturers will offer ROM upgrades when they are released from MS? Like the Touch HD ever got WM6.5 officialy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .
If you use a lot of MS services, especially some mail/file exchange service, like outlook,
wp7 should be nice to you.
but I am an android guy
------------------------
No, I am not a X Man, I am a XDA Man
ceesheim said:
that is the nice thing of wp7 , microsoft is dealing with the updates , you don't have to wait for the OEM'S to get your updates .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.
tkolev said:
They could probably handle patches, but I seriously doubt that they will handle ROM upgrades. You will still be dependant on your OEM to make a ROM specific for your device. And knowing HTC's policy that's something not very likely to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009
chaoscentral said:
I have been a HEAVY Android user and promoter over the past year, I have had just about any device under the sun I could get my hands on for T-Mobile(and some unlocked european ones as well)
But honestly, I will be banishing Android to backup phone status once the HD7 comes out.
The entire OS just seems like it's still in the beta phase. The UI is extremely inconsistent across apps. You have one app that looks great, and another that looks like a 5 year old stitched it together with crayon.
* Some more text*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the impression I've got from Android, and is the reason that I'll go to WP7 instead of an Android option.
Jailbroken WP7 would be the best!
Guys its just the ui that matters.. Android offers everything that wp7 is now beginning to offer. Only problem with android is the ui which is unable to display the information to the user the way wp7 does.. But I guess if wp7 has a better ui then android will put on a fight with gingerbread. Only problem with android is that all of us ain't using a nexus hence the experience will be different to all of us. And software updates in android are a joke when it comes to the consumer end... Still waiting for froyo.... May end up buying wp7 because of the experience
Just love that ui... Makes android look old and fragmented.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
ceesheim said:
I think there isn't any nead to update the whole rom , you can update almosed everything in the rom.
I think it will be the same as wm6.5 , the option was there but never used .
Here is a link of how it works on wm6.*
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still find it hard to believe that MS will update the hardware-related parts of the ROM. Now it's easy - there is one processor, one resolution, etc. but these are the minimum specs the phones must meet. I guess will have to wait a couple of years to see what's going to happen. My feeling is that the update system will never be as efficient as Apple's and will have all of it's drawbacks. In the end WP will be as fragmented as Android and as closed as iOS. I hope I'm wrong!
1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.
I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!
jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R
jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
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Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
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Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
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Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.
jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
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Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.
jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.
jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
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Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
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How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
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If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
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Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.
CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
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Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
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N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.
N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.
What are some small aspects of WP7 that you appreciate that others may not have noticed?
For me, after about two or three weeks of having the phone, I realized something about the text message tile. This is most likely old, but, if you have no messages, the smiley will be like this , if you have a message - ;-), if a message failed to send - :-( (or something like that, I don't quite remember it), if you have 4 or more messages - :-O
It was just something that made me smile and think, "really? who would have thought of including that?"
Anyone else have moments like this?
loopyeyes said:
What are some small aspects of WP7 that you appreciate that others may not have noticed?
For me, after about two or three weeks of having the phone, I realized something about the text message tile. This is most likely old, but, if you have no messages, the smiley will be like this , if you have a message - ;-), if a message failed to send - :-( (or something like that, I don't quite remember it), if you have 4 or more messages - :-O
It was just something that made me smile and think, "really? who would have thought of including that?"
Anyone else have moments like this?
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Click to collapse
Really, that happens? That's a really nice touch!
For some reason I always loved how the arrow button rotates around when switching between the Live Tile view and the Apps list view. I don't really know why I like it, but I just do!
OGCF said:
Really, that happens? That's a really nice touch!
For some reason I always loved how the arrow button rotates around when switching between the Live Tile view and the Apps list view. I don't really know why I like it, but I just do!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that really happens, it is touches like this that make the device a delight to use, I really like the on screen keyboard, it feels just right in use
It turns out, every time you type on the soft-keyboard in WP7, it’s a subtly different sound. Whereas the iPhone has only one audio sample that it repeats every time you tap on the virtual key, WP7 plays one of eight variations in a loop.
Although it’s ever so slightly different, Microsoft claims they’ve done this so its more organic like footsteps down a hallway – the same but different, and less “obnoxious” if you were to press the backspace repeatedly. Matthew also claims feedback from “power typers” suggests the sounds deliver a better tactile experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6e5kPDe5zI
For more info.
seconded on the sw keyboard. And the keyboard is also good. It keeps up with fast typing and multitouch as well as text correction is smooth as butter. This has been the most pleasant sw keyboard I have ever used.
I think I can say another good touch is the start menu button. It is so good for quick one handed operation especially on the dell venue pro. I have to put a bit of force so its not pushed by mistake
Again nice touch
Xylias said:
It turns out, every time you type on the soft-keyboard in WP7, it’s a subtly different sound. Whereas the iPhone has only one audio sample that it repeats every time you tap on the virtual key, WP7 plays one of eight variations in a loop.
Although it’s ever so slightly different, Microsoft claims they’ve done this so its more organic like footsteps down a hallway – the same but different, and less “obnoxious” if you were to press the backspace repeatedly. Matthew also claims feedback from “power typers” suggests the sounds deliver a better tactile experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6e5kPDe5zI
For more info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't realise that about the keyboard sounds, it definitely does contribute to the pleasant nature of the typing experience
I really like the sense the phone gives (through its use of the panoramic screens) that you're the one controlling the phone, not the software. For instance, the speed at which you move through the content is dictated by the speed at which your finger moves, not some predetermined speed associated with an invisible switch you flip when your finger swipes across the screen.