Develop Bugs

AT&T Comparison: Tilt 2 vs. LG Expo - Which do you prefer?

OK. So you guys had me all ready to pull the trigger on the Tilt 2. And now I see the LG Expo online at ATT (I am stuck with ATT because I am an employee). The Expo seems very comparable to the Tilt 2 and so I did more research. And now I am thoroughly undecided about which to get. I watched this demo video on youtube and am very intrigued. Also check out this one.
I am hoping some of you Tilt 2 users who also know about the LG Expo can give me your insight.
Below is what I have found as far as pros and cons for both. I have a spreadsheet below where I compared what I think are the most important features. I highlighted in green what I thought were clear advantages for both. And by the way, the projector for the LG is not a consideration for me...cool...but not for me.
Tilt 2 Winners: Larger screen, better keyboard, seemingly much better battery, incredible speaker phone functionality, and of course the tilting screen function
LG Expo Winners: 1 ghz processor, 5.0 MP camera, seemingly awesome touch sensor directional pad and fingerprint scanner, SD card accessible on side, HSPA 7.2 capable (but I do not consider this an advantage because by the time AT&T can actually provide that throughput, all phones will have it), S-class user interface (LG version of TF3D - it seems very customizable).
Tilt 2 Losers: No D-pad (I am a big one-handed user and I live on my d-pad), poor SD card access, zoom bar (from my experience the Zoom bar is a dud and thus a waste of space), giant audio adapter.
LG Losers: Battery, battery, battery (this could be a deal breaker...it needs more real world testing), no 3.5 jack.
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You might to add one more item to the Tilt 2's pro column: Latest and greatest custom ROMs by a lot of chefs.
I don't think that you'll have too many ROMs to flash (and the increased risk because there is no HardSPL for it) for the LG Expo.
I am jealous about the 1Gig processor though.

Anything LG is a loser in my opinion. Small electronics to appliances, their products and support blows.

Here we go again...
Entering to a Nike store and asking which is better from Nike and Rebook...
What will be the answer?
Seriously, even if lg has bigger processor I won´t trust in any other brand than HTC
Also XDA great support makes HTC to be my choice

battery talk time 8hrs vs 3.5hrs??? wth, is that a typo?? that would decide for me

I have never used my TP2 to talk 8hrs to test that but I can tell you my battery under a normal usage lasts almost 2 days
I´m quite happy with my Rhodium!!

in almost every way the htc device is better. it may not be better for you. but asking opinions in an very htc forum in a section where owners of the htc device look wont score opinions in the lgs favor. what ever device you wanna buy, buy it. but everyone here will say htc.

Hey ChasDun, I think this is more of the response you're looking for. I am also an ATT user and as far as smartphones I started with the Blackjack, went to the first Tilt, Fuze, now the Tilt2. Before I bought either of these phones I did a LOT of research to determine which, at the time, was a better phone.
The reason I just purchased the Tilt2 was because not only can you load custom ROMs which is a ridiculously huge advantage over most other non-HTC phones. Along with that, the Tilt2 has everything where it counts, and as a result it excells in operation, both as a phone and all the other operation. With the new 6.5.3 Windows Mobile everything is fast, smooth and stable enough to use as an everyday OS, as well as the fact that the performance of the phone is always getting better with every new build and driver that is released.
So in the end, if you purchase the LG, you're getting less function, a little more performance and a LOT less battery. So if this makes any sense, HTC = Function and other brands are still learning what it takes to build a really functional smartphone. (Unlike any other phone I've ever had, I use all the buttons on the Tilt2)
The lack of a directional pad isn't a big deal since the onscreen keyboard has one, but that is one of my few complaints about the phone (but I'm already over it)
In the end, though, I have to be fair and say I'm maybe a little bit biased because I couldn't imagine how much better the Tilt2 was an improvement over the Fuze, but for whatever reason the performance and functionality are a few steps over the Fuze.
Hope this helps!

Thanks to those of you who gave thoughtful answers. I know it's too early to tell how good or bad the LG will be. But I know that many of you on here are way more informed about new devices like this than I am. I also am very aware that posting this in the xda forums is going to have an HTC bias. But that's what I want. I have owned a half dozen HTCs over the years and I am basically wanting to hear some strong reasons why I should take the Tilt over the eXpo. But most people on here are also intelligent enough to admit the cons of the Tilt as well as the potential pros of another device like the LG.
singhnx said:
You might to add one more item to the Tilt 2's pro column: Latest and greatest custom ROMs by a lot of chefs.
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Click to collapse
I hear ya on that. I have taken advantage of these in the past. Unfortunately since this will be my ATT work phone I won't be able to flash new ROMs on my Tilt 2.
khaytsus said:
Anything LG is a loser in my opinion. Small electronics to appliances, their products and support blows.
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Understood. But by not giving it a chance you may miss out on an incredible device. Large companies like LG have entirely different teams working on phones than TVs than Ranges, etc. So maybe this team knocked it out of the park. Who knows?
The Jack of Clubs said:
in almost every way the htc device is better...but asking opinions in an very htc forum in a section where owners of the htc device look wont score opinions in the lgs favor.
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Click to collapse
Jack, in your extensive use of the LG eXpo you found that that the Tilt was better in almost every way? Elaborate? I have been frequenting these forums since my old Blue Angel days. I give most of the xda'ers more credit that they can give unbiased opinions and other insights that would be helpful in a case like this. Most of these guys are phone freaks and although HTC is king, many of them know a lot about devices in general.
Sellitus said:
Hey ChasDun, I think this is more of the response you're looking for...
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Thanks Sellitus. It is exactly the type of response I was hoping for - actual facts and opinions based on experience. I don't think LG or ATT has done a good job marketing this phone. The TP2 is on every U.S. carrier so it got big buzz. But I think that the LG eXpo will slowly win a lot of people over with some of its fresh ideas (and again I am not alluding to the projector). I agree that HTC has the experience where it counts. My old Treo 750 still puts my friends' new iPhones and Blackberrys to shame with performance and versatility. But also, every HTC I have owned has had a few kinks worthy of improvement. So I am never going to turn a blind eye towards a newcomer. Basically the online reviews and demos will tell the story over the next few months. I want to believe that the LG can do everything that it touts as well as it says. I am glad to hear you say that the d-pad is not a hard issue to get past with the Tilt.
Hopefully others will chime in with their experiences. These 2 phones on AT&T are obviously marketed at the same audience with very little to differentiate them to the untrained eye.

the screen keyboard and battery life are all better. where it falls is the processor and camera. if you prefer the expo then go buy it. but you wont be convincing anyone here.

The Jack of Clubs said:
the screen keyboard and battery life are all better.
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Jack, what about the LG keyboard did you think was inferior during your testing of the eXpo? Some of the hands-on reviews say the LG keyboard is the best part.

While I can't give you experience based on testing the eXpo, I can give you my experience on a non-LG WinMo phone.
My first WinMo phone was the Samsung SCH-i760. I loved it at first, and number pad was amazing for use in Excel, but once I wanted to customize it, it all went to crap.
S2U2 was buggy at best. I got it to work once, but when the touchscreen failed, I could not get it working on my next phone. It would drain the battery and crash constantly.
Next I tried GridLock. It crashed as well. Lock software just didn't agree with my phone at all.
I used to see my friends with their TP1s loving all these cool apps, and me stuck in the dust because my failure of a phone could barely run most of the XDA-Apps.
So, if I buy a WM phone, it's going to be an HTC, or a phone that has a lot of support from XDA, because I know the HTC phones have a huge following.
If you don't care about a lot of the apps that are posted here, and just want Opera Mini, Skyfire (which should be awesome on the 1 GHz Processor), and MortPlayer, then grab the LG; the projector is awesome! I happen to like LG phones. My mother and fiance have nothing but good things to say about them in terms of reliability and functionality.
I hope this helps.

the keyboard on the touch pro 2 is what makes the device. it has the best keyboard of any phone. much better than the lg expo.

honestly my past 3 phones were from htc. i had the 8125, the tilt and the fuze. now i just bought the lg expo got it this morning. im super glad i got this over the tilt 2. the tilt 2 is nice, it has a nice big screen, but i like the expo over it. the 1ghz processor is nice, it doesnt slow down when i run like 3 different programs at a time like my fuze did. and i did use custom roms, so far though this stock lg rom is better then any custom rom i used on my fuze. the speed is amazing. also the camera is much better then on the tilt 2. the keyboard is a bit different its not something im use to exactly but i will be in no time. i've been on this forum since my 8125 and it sucks that i cant get updates for the expo on here but im still happy with my phone regardless.

ChasDun said:
Understood. But by not giving it a chance you may miss out on an incredible device. Large companies like LG have entirely different teams working on phones than TVs than Ranges, etc. So maybe this team knocked it out of the park. Who knows?
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Click to collapse
Nope, I'm a fan of "Vote with your money".

They certainly are different..my problem is similar!
I have gotten a LG IQ (the Canadian Equivalent of the eXpo) and I do like it. I am still within my 14 days, so may exchange it for a Touch Pro 2...it is a hard decision...
Comments on the eXpo:
to update your comparison
1) the docs and software DO support TV out but I haven't found a cable yet.
2) the FM radio is functional, but requires a headphone or TV out cable as the antenna.
The projector will be very cool I expect when it is released.
I have no complaints about the keyboard.
With the faster processor, the LG is heads and shoulders faster than the Touch Pro I replaced - and I am talking with new custom roms on the HTC product. The TP2 is slightly faster than the TP, but the Snapdragon frankly blows the slower processors away. Every program snaps in a way that it did not on the HTC.
The S Class UI is very different to the TF3D on the HTC but they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
The fingerprint reader really does work...and fast enough that I use it when I never did take the time to use a password. This is probably a good thing given the 500+ confidential contacts I have on my phone all the time. If you could never bother to use some sort of security with your phone, this one might get you to, without any pain.
The build quality on the LG is superior to the HTC Touch Pro., I don't know about the Touch Pro 2. With my Touch Pro, the "black chrome" was always flaking, and I returned 3 of them for warranty repairs. The chrome on the LG seems to me more likely to stand up, but only time will tell.
The internet experience is far faster with the new network and processor - but I am on the Telus network and your results may vary.
For me, the only thing that makes it at all close is the custom ROM support, which I am sure will be better for the HTC. And that is why I am having a hard time deciding. At first I hated the S class UI. But it is growing on me.
Good luck with your decision...I don't know what mine will be but I am leaning toward the LG...ever so slightly. And I have to decide by Friday.
cheers

im super happy with my expo and in no time custom roms will be out I can't wait.

I LOVE MY TILT 2 ............
The End ......

Thanks to all who have replied with intelligent responses. The big hang up with me is still the lack of the d-pad. I see it is also sorely missed by some Tilt 2 users since there are many threads regarding Zoom Bar and Volume Keys as faux d-pads with dozens of posts. But there are mixed reviews on the eXpos touch sensor as a decent d-pad. So the jury is out on that one. If ATT would ever actually get the device in the stores I will just give it a trial.
The whole UI thing is a moot point to me. I have tried most everything from TF3d to iPhone to Blackberry to Symbian to Android to Widgets to Winterface to SPB Mobile Shell. And they all come with a compromise, be it speed, lack of full customization or poor usability. So I am over the "sexy" argument. I have been using SPB Pocket Plus for years now and it has made every WinMo phone I have owned incredibly useful. I can add as many tabs as I need and fully customize the home screen. And the tiny footprint doesn't take anything away from performance. Sure, it's not as sexy as what many others have on their devices, but its more functional.
BTW, I am puzzled by why people like Jack of Clubs and 69Pwned post things that have no actual value in the threads. Now I see how some people get so many posts to their name. If you can't intelligently discuss the OP then please don't bother and move on to something else. It's just a waste of our time. Anytime someone blindly says "this is better than everything else" when they have never tried "everything else", it just makes us ignore anything you say in the future. I have owned 4 HTC devices in a row and loved them all. But I am not narrow-minded enough to not want and explore other avenues. How can your keyboard be better than the one on a device you have never set hands on?

ChasDun said:
BTW, I am puzzled by why people like Jack of Clubs and 69Pwned post things that have no actual value in the threads.
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thanks for the mention. i just dont think people appreciate phone comparison threads. most of the mods lock them. youve made up your mind that youre going to buy the lg before your first post. you dont have to try to convince us its a better phone. and no name calling or i wont give you a treemas day present!

Widespread camera "focus" issues with the Lumia 900

I've had my Lumia 900 since the pre-order availability date, so I've "kicked the tires" for a week and a half now. I love the phone, to be honest. The build-quality is great, the design is fabulous (in my opinion), it's the first phone I've owned that didn't require MAX volume to have a reasonable phone call, and the list goes on. I *really* like this phone. A lot.
That said, the camera has......issues -- and mainly with "focus", as far as I can tell -- perhaps also with white balance. Is everyone else seeing this? I returned to the AT&T store, tested an in-store phone (black, instead of cyan, which I have) and the issue was the same: open the built-in camera app, press on the screen to focus on something, snap the photo, and it comes out slightly out-of-focus. Strangely enough, the front-camera doesn't have this issue.
Wow.
Fortunately, it appears to be a "software issue", since I was able to grab another camera app -- SophieCam (which is pretty cool) -- and take *great* photos from the exact same phone. Here are two examples -- and in both cases I touched on the top of the shifter knob so that that would be the focus point.
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(Taken with the built-in camera app. You'll notice that it appears to focus on everything *except* for the shifter knob, which is what I selected as the focal point.)
(Taken with the SophieCam camera app. You'll notice that the shifter knob is *very* much in-focus, and looks great -- aside from being grubby )
So...is everyone else seeing this issue? Any fixes for it, aside from waiting for Nokia to resolve it? Thankfully, I trust that Nokia *will* fix the problem...but I hope it doesn't take too long. It seems that others are reporting this on Nokia Support, but my photos are a far cry from the awesome ones posted on this page.
Please...hurry up and fix this, Nokia!

links aren't working for me

moorent said:
links aren't working for me
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Sorry...fixed the images not showing up.
You'll also note the blue-ish tint in the first photo, and the more "natural" look in the second photo (taken with SophieCam). The second photo is more true to what it should be.

second pic is 1000x better. its amazing that universal software comes out better than the "finely tuned" nokia camera software...what a joke! can u snap some more pics with that sophiecam? I am on the edge of buying a 900 and the camera is my biggest concern at this point!

you do know there is a "macro" mode for taking close ups on the stock camera app....

To the OP: does SophieCam allow you take pics at 8mp?
Sent from my X10a using XDA

I absolutely agree that the camera appears to have issues on the Lumia 900. Compared to my Samsung Focus S, both the front and rear camera on the Lumia 900 are awful. I'm assuming that this is a software related issue as well. Comparing the built-in camera software between the Lumia 900 and the Focus S there are a lot of things that appear to be missing or that just don't work in the Lumia 900.
Here's one for you...
Open the camera and try changing the ISO setting... Does anything actually change for you? I see the phone blink for a second but the ISO level NEVER actually changes. The white balance also doesn't appear to be working quite right. Most of the test pictures I've taken appear to be more red then I think they should be.
I'd like to know what others see when they do the following...
Open the built-in camera app and zoom in all the way on an item and what do you see? I can tell you that when doing this on the Lumia 900 that I have the image is horrible blurred/pixelated (even after focusing). Now I know its digital zoom and I understand what that does but compared to the Samsung Focus S the image quality is horrendous. I'll post pics below for you to see the comparison of full zoomed between the two phones.
Nokia Lumia 900 - Full Digital Zoom 1
Samsung Focus S - Full Digital Zoom 1
I have uploaded more pictures comparing both full digital zoom and ISO levels between these two devices on my server at the link below.
http://www.noboundrees.com/FocusS_Lum900_Compare/

The built-in camera app is actually part of WP7. Nokia merely supply drivers.

foxbat121 said:
The built-in camera app is actually part of WP7. Nokia merely supply drivers.
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I agree and I would think the same thing, but apparently each vendor has the ability to "customize" the built-in app to some extent.

mercx said:
I agree and I would think the same thing, but apparently each vendor has the ability to "customize" the built-in app to some extent.
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Camera app is the one that has very little customization room for venders. In fact since the 3rd party app is working fine, it means the driver is ok and what's wrong is probably in the latest 8117 OS build.

Here are a few more photos...
(Normal mode, built-in camera app)
(Macro mode, built-in camera app)
(SophieCam camera app)
Strangely, the "normal mode" photo with the built-in camera app performed *fairly* well in this case, but the SophieCam snapshot is noticeably better.
To answer a couple of other questions:
1) YES, I know what macro mode is, and these pictures didn't require that. I would appreciate it if you'd give other forum members the benefit of the doubt that we're not complete idiots.
2) While SophieCam is free, it does not appear to take photos in full resolution. Bummer. That said, it's fun to use, and is really intended as an Instagram-type photo app -- quickly uploading "filtered" photos to Facebook, Twitter, or Flickr.
I do wish I'd done more testing before the latest update, since I don't know if things have gotten worse or better since. I'd also like to know how widespread this issue is. Everyone? Just some? Earlier phones only?

shea-bird said:
second pic is 1000x better. its amazing that universal software comes out better than the "finely tuned" nokia camera software...what a joke! can u snap some more pics with that sophiecam? I am on the edge of buying a 900 and the camera is my biggest concern at this point!
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Click to collapse
"Yes", it's discouraging to see camera issues at this point, but I'm hopeful about two things: 1) it's only a software issue, since another camera app can take wonderful photos using the same hardware, and 2) Nokia *will* fix this problem. They actually care about supporting their phones, supporting the camera quality, and they know that the company is riding on a successful WP7 rollout. They WILL make this right. Question is...how quickly?

Umm there was a post either here or in a review where they determined Macro is a must even when not taking close-ups, and had various other recommended settings. I entered those and my pics have been better since then. All pics seem to be more in focus with Macro on. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it seems to be at the moment.
I should mention I haven't yet taken any true Macro pics though, so I can't speak for those.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

you guys should tweet Damian, he is head of imaging @ Nokia and he e a really cool guy.. always responds to camera problems. I am sure they are working on a some camera updates. The hardware in the L900 is capable of more, than what the software allows it to be right now.
http://twitter.com/#!/phonedaz
The problem for Nokia is that they have to switch from their own platform where they have full control, to a controlled OS where they don't have the access, nor the expertise to make a real difference, at least not yet. It will take a while.

foxbat121 said:
Camera app is the one that has very little customization room for venders. In fact since the 3rd party app is working fine, it means the driver is ok and what's wrong is probably in the latest 8117 OS build.
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I never thought of that makes sense.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

ragingclue said:
Umm there was a post either here or in a review where they determined Macro is a must even when not taking close-ups, and had various other recommended settings. I entered those and my pics have been better since then. All pics seem to be more in focus with Macro on. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it seems to be at the moment.
I should mention I haven't yet taken any true Macro pics though, so I can't speak for those.
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Hmm. I'd be interested to know what the "secret settings" are to make things look a bit better. Any chance you could find that thread and report back?
go0gle said:
you guys should tweet Damian, he is head of imaging @ Nokia and he e a really cool guy.. always responds to camera problems. I am sure they are working on a some camera updates. The hardware in the L900 is capable of more, than what the software allows it to be right now.
http://twitter.com/#!/phonedaz
The problem for Nokia is that they have to switch from their own platform where they have full control, to a controlled OS where they don't have the access, nor the expertise to make a real difference, at least not yet. It will take a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a Twitter account -- and I'm not going to create one just for this -- but I'd certainly appreciate it if someone else could send him a tweet, maybe reference this thread, and then see what he says.
Yes... Nokia doesn't have the control they used to, but we're not talking about being BETTER WITH THE CAMERA than everyone else (like we know Nokia ought to be), we're talking about simply taking nice-quality photos without having things focused incorrectly. The Lumia 900 *ought* to be able to do that right now, and it just doesn't. Yes, they'll fix it, but it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Here is another related thread from Nokia Support. Specifically, they talk about the camera "trying to focus", and then bumping back to some sort of preset. I've seen this *exact* behavior, as the camera appears to focus properly, and then just before taking the photo it either bumps OUT OF FOCUS or decides to focus on something else entirely. Very strange.

yipcanjo said:
Here is another related thread from Nokia Support. Specifically, they talk about the camera "trying to focus", and then bumping back to some sort of preset. I've seen this *exact* behavior, as the camera appears to focus properly, and then just before taking the photo it either bumps OUT OF FOCUS or decides to focus on something else entirely. Very strange.
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That's exactly what I notice also. The picture looks great on the screen then when I go to take the picture it bumps out of focus. Frustrating...

yipcanjo said:
Hmm. I'd be interested to know what the "secret settings" are to make things look a bit better. Any chance you could find that thread and report back?
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Ok the link was posted by XDA user shiftF7 in this thread here. Specifically this post.
The link goes to his review here.
Also, I've normally found if people figure out what ISO and Exposure do and how it relates to the photos they're unhappy with, they can make situational adjustments. That's not going to help the auto-unfocus issue and general graininess of Marco distance photos, but maybe it can help for the time being until Nokia comes out with a tweak in an update, which I'm sure won't be far away. My pictures generally do look better after reading that thread. YMMV

yipcanjo said:
I don't have a Twitter account -- and I'm not going to create one just for this -- but I'd certainly appreciate it if someone else could send him a tweet, maybe reference this thread, and then see what he says.
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Done. I will post here if he responds.
And ya, it sucks that the camera app/drivers are not doing a good job.. at least we know it isn't the hardware, which would be worse.
Here is GSMarena's take on it, they are usually pretty good when it comes to camera testing..
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_lumia_900_att-review-748p5.php
"The Lumia 900 captures decent photos with accurate colors and good contrast. The amount of resolved fine detail is not among the best we've seen and there's also lots of noise when viewing the photos at 100% zoom. Still, the Lumia 900 has accurate white balance and the dynamic range is as impressive as it was on the N9 and the Lumia 800. As a result, images from the camera look pretty well when not zoomed at 100% so if you are not pixel peeping as we are, you will be perfectly alright with what comes out of the camera"

Upgrade camera sensor

What's the chances of installing the camera sensor from a Desire 816 or an M8 ultra to get a 13mp camera rather than the 4mp? They obviously work with sense 6, but will they fit?
Let's say it, would you be tempted?

mwatson said:
What's the chances of installing the camera sensor from a Desire 816 or an M8 ultra to get a 13mp camera rather than the 4mp? They obviously work with sense 6, but will they fit?
Let's say it, would you be tempted?
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Lol, why would you do that. HTC isn't stupid, they wouldn't put better camera in midranger than in flagship.
For my purpouses, camera is great. Night photos are the best. Daily are sometimes overexposed, but play a little with settings and they won't be. Pictures are good even on the monitor screen.

I would say chances are less than zero. Even if it was the same ribbon cable pinout, there's no way it's the same physical footprint so it wouldn't fit, and the software would have no idea how to talk to it. You have a better chance of your phone sprouting legs.

mwatson said:
What's the chances of installing the camera sensor from a Desire 816 or an M8 ultra to get a 13mp camera rather than the 4mp? They obviously work with sense 6, but will they fit?
Let's say it, would you be tempted?
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Click to collapse
lol.... ¬¬ are you serious? impossible

eltoffer said:
lol.... ¬¬ are you serious? impossible
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It was once said to be impossible to split an atom... I don't know if you've ever check out some of the homebrew electronics sites & forums, but I have seen more unbelievably amazing things than soldering a cmos onto a board. While it may be highly impractical, improbable even, few things are impossible.

GSLEON3 said:
It was once said to be impossible to split an atom... I don't know if you've ever check out some of the homebrew electronics sites & forums, but I have seen more unbelievably amazing things than soldering a cmos onto a board. While it may be highly impractical, improbable even, few things are impossible.
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If this guy is asking for that it is impossible (st least for him/her, also don't know why we would want a worse camera on this device, not impossible for HTC but for us :/ easy
Desde HTC One M8

GSLEON3 said:
It was once said to be impossible to split an atom... I don't know if you've ever check out some of the homebrew electronics sites & forums, but I have seen more unbelievably amazing things than soldering a cmos onto a board. While it may be highly impractical, improbable even, few things are impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could solder a Subaru onto the side of the phone too, it doesn't mean it can drive. There's more to these things than a little fun with a soldering iron.
Given enough time, ambition, and access to the full source of everything involved (kernel, drivers), I'm sure it's POSSIBLE. But no one is going to do it -- that's the part that has zero percent chance of happening. For that amount of effort and time just buy a different phone that suits you better, or wait a year.

Crikey I'm not being funny but what's the big hang up with m8 camera, it's a phone for crying out loud? There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It takes perfectly good photos. Really if you need a top notch camera go and buy one that is designed for the job.

It is still funny to me, how people think the bigger number is always better.
13 mediocre mega pixels vs 4 excellent mega pixels. I prefer a camera that can actually handle different lighting conditions like the M8. I had an S5 for 2 days before returning it. The camera wasn't that great. I prefer the M8 .
It is sad that ignorant people can stifle real innovation with such blind devotion to bigger numbers. That's why Samsung does so well, they keep hyping numbers in a cheap phone and people buy it.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app

Impossible :good:

It's not impossible I've done it! ! I've also constructed a rocket and lunar lander from egg boxes and managed to fly to the moon and spend the night there. Just got back to see this post! I'll post some pictures I took with the modified m8 in a while, they're absolutely cracking! If anyone else wants the mod done on there m8 off a trip to the moon send me a check for £500 and some solder oh and some egg boxes.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

[Q] New software for M9 - 1.32.531.33 (Camera Fix)

Hi. I was just browsing through and found some articles commending the newly releases update saying it fixes the camera to an arm's length.
Can anyone confirm is this update is indeed good.?
http://phandroid.com/2015/04/09/htc-one-m9-camera-update-comparison/
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2908091/htc-one-m9-camera-software-update.html

hymnz said:
Hi. I was just browsing through and found some articles commending the newly releases update saying it fixes the camera to an arm's length.
Can anyone confirm is this update is indeed good.?
http://phandroid.com/2015/04/09/htc-one-m9-camera-update-comparison/
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2908091/htc-one-m9-camera-software-update.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the comparison on the site, I think that's a decent update, the pictures do look better. However the quality to me is still nowhere near how a flagship device should take pictures.

mr1029x said:
According to the comparison on the site, I think that's a decent update, the pictures do look better. However the quality to me is still nowhere near how a flagship device should take pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed! Its improving but no where near it should be. I can't believe it had to take all the bad reviews for HTC to finally start working on this. +1

badboy47 said:
Agreed! Its improving but no where near it should be. I can't believe it had to take all the bad reviews for HTC to finally start working on this. +1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel sorry for HTC actually, I think that they have been working hard to address the camera issue for many years now, but the customers' demand kinda make it really hard for them to follow
In 2013 they started their focus on picture quality, especially low light performance with the M7. The results weren't great, but it showed potential. The M8's camera to me focused more on features rather than quality with that gimmicky Dual-Camera system (which nobody really liked). But again, it was a very good idea for them stay away from the Megapixel and actually focus on what really matters rather than just give customers specs.
We should've encouraged them to stay on that path, but so many users seemed upset with the lack of picture details. So HTC has to give them what they want with a 20 MP camera which shows detail, yes. However, the image processing ability is such a letdown. And I think that this is not just a software issue, but also a sensor issue, I have never seen a flagship phone with a weird Toshiba sensor. But hey, what do you expect from a company which has been staying away from the MP war for awhile and now is forced to get back in?

Does anyone know when this will be released on the unlocked model from HTC, if it hasn't been already?

mr1029x said:
Feel sorry for HTC actually, I think that they have been working hard to address the camera issue for many years now, but the customers' demand kinda make it really hard for them to follow
In 2013 they started their focus on picture quality, especially low light performance with the M7. The results weren't great, but it showed potential. The M8's camera to me focused more on features rather than quality with that gimmicky Dual-Camera system (which nobody really liked). But again, it was a very good idea for them stay away from the Megapixel and actually focus on what really matters rather than just give customers specs.
We should've encouraged them to stay on that path, but so many users seemed upset with the lack of picture details. So HTC has to give them what they want with a 20 MP camera which shows detail, yes. However, the image processing ability is such a letdown. And I think that this is not just a software issue, but also a sensor issue, I have never seen a flagship phone with a weird Toshiba sensor. But hey, what do you expect from a company which has been staying away from the MP war for awhile and now is forced to get back in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Toshiba sensor has plenty of potential ..HTC just need's to get it tuned in
From the review of the Nokia 830 with the same Toshiba sensor
In testing by the PureView Club, Sony's 20.7 megapixel EXMOR sensor was compared extensively to the previous generation 20.1 megapixel Toshiba sensor. The overall finding was that the Toshiba sensor produced a slightly underexposed image, while Sony's sensor tended to overexpose (wash out). Generally, underexposure is more desirable as it can be more accurately post-processed to a neutral exposure. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/Lumia+830+...+Sensor/article36406.htm#sthash.JhEioRm7.dpuf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

btw based on android central this update is only coming to the us models the international already recieved there update earlier last month

clsA said:
The Toshiba sensor has plenty of potential ..HTC just need's to get it tuned in
From the review of the Nokia 830 with the same Toshiba sensor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that I think HTC Devs isn't fully familiar with how the Toshiba sensor captures and gathers pictures' info, especially after 2 years working with the "Ultrapixel" camera. Therefore the image processing software isn't optimized to get the best out of it and HTC released the phone a bit too early, they should've waited for a couple more weeks or even a month, look at the G4, LG sure take their time. I wouldn't mind waiting either.

mr1029x said:
I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that I think HTC Devs isn't fully familiar with how the Toshiba sensor captures and gathers pictures' info, especially after 2 years working with the "Ultrapixel" camera. Therefore the image processing software isn't optimized to get the best out of it and HTC released the phone a bit too early, they should've waited for a couple more weeks or even a month, look at the G4, LG sure take their time. I wouldn't mind waiting either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah your right their, after 15 crappy reviews I'm sure they wish they would have waited and got it perfect first now

mr1029x said:
Feel sorry for HTC actually, I think that they have been working hard to address the camera issue for many years now, but the customers' demand kinda make it really hard for them to follow
In 2013 they started their focus on picture quality, especially low light performance with the M7. The results weren't great, but it showed potential. The M8's camera to me focused more on features rather than quality with that gimmicky Dual-Camera system (which nobody really liked). But again, it was a very good idea for them stay away from the Megapixel and actually focus on what really matters rather than just give customers specs.
We should've encouraged them to stay on that path, but so many users seemed upset with the lack of picture details. So HTC has to give them what they want with a 20 MP camera which shows detail, yes. However, the image processing ability is such a letdown. And I think that this is not just a software issue, but also a sensor issue, I have never seen a flagship phone with a weird Toshiba sensor. But hey, what do you expect from a company which has been staying away from the MP war for awhile and now is forced to get back in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heard about Nokia? Finnish company bought by micro, known 4 having great cameras? It's about htc not very good at optimization of the software I think. Let's see.

Hi, I just got my Developers Edition today and I did get an update right away, only it is different that the one on this post. This one is 1.32.617.30, did anyone else got this?
Thanks
Chingonazo

Chingonazo said:
Hi, I just got my Developers Edition today and I did get an update right away, only it is different that the one on this post. This one is 1.32.617.30, did anyone else got this?
Thanks
Chingonazo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this is the version I have as well

I got an update as soon as I turned on my M9 last week, but forgot to check what fixes were included it was the 1.32.206.15 not sure if the Camera fix was included (I assume it was).

Chingonazo said:
Hi, I just got my Developers Edition today and I did get an update right away, only it is different that the one on this post. This one is 1.32.617.30, did anyone else got this?
Thanks
Chingonazo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the unlocked version and had this update right away too. I wonder if it is the same camera update.

Just wondering if you guys could give your thoughts on the camera with the update compared to before and compared to the M8 or the m7.

I am on 1.33.605.15 and there is no update available. You guys think this includes the camera update? I would assume so because it is a higher number but I haven't seen that build mentioned anywhere.

I am on AT&T in the US running stock and have Android version 5.0.2. HTC Sense 7.0, and Software Number 1.32.502.9.
Kernel version 3.10.49-gcea571a [email protected]#1 SMP PREEMPT
xgerryx said:
I am on 1.33.605.15 and there is no update available. You guys think this includes the camera update? I would assume so because it is a higher number but I haven't seen that build mentioned anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

[Discussion] HTC 10 User Opinions and Reviews

Devices will be shipping this week and some lucky people have one already. So if you have an HTC 10, please give us your first impressions and thoughts about the device. Tell us about the display, camera, battery life, audio, build quality or whatever else comes to mind. If you've had any problems, we'd also like to know about that too. Unboxing pics are encouraged
Let's avoid lengthy discussions about particular topics here and leave them to their dedicated threads, ie for camera, battery, audio, etc.
Also, discussion about published reviews should go here.
So, who will go first?

I ran out of RAM! All 4GB filled.
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"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I was just listening to some music, downloading stuff via Chrome. Download a Video via DsFile, downloading GFX bench GL dataset.
And while switching between these apps and reading on XDA I realised that my downloads would be interrupted because the app got sent into cache....
If the onePlus 3 has 6gb RAM I might consider selling my 10.
Edit: might be due to Boost+ SmartBoost feature....
Deactivated it now. Let's see how it goes.

The more the phone utilizes the RAM the better.. I'm glad to see it's literally guzzling it to keep apps in RAM, faster multitasking you know.
HTC probably utilizing zram as well, can anyone confirm that?

How is call quality and loudness?

Alright guys & gals, Verizon is already shipping the 10 and HTC pre-orders for the US are going out tomorrow. I really want to hear from you what you think of it when you get yours

CafeKampuchia said:
Alright guys & gals, Verizon is already shipping the 10 and HTC pre-orders for the US are going out tomorrow. I really want to hear from you what you think of it when you get yours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got my vz 10 this afternoon. Usual bloat. Phone is heavy, camera lags. I think my 5x is faster and my s7 takes way better pics. Not seeing it worth the money so I am returning it.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I'm using an unlocked white/silver UK model on Tmobile network at the moment, and it works beautifully. Figured it'd work since prior I used an unlocked Compact Z3 that supported pretty much the same bands. I'm loving this phone. The responsiveness of the screen is probably one of the most underrated features that I love. On prior phones, especially my Z3 compact and sometimes my LG G3, the phones felt like they didn't always want to register my touches, but this is an entirely different story with this phone. In terms of screen brightness, I actually think it's pretty bright. I'm in California with clear whether and lots of sun, and I'm able to see outside with my phone pretty brightly. The auto brightness is kind of finicky though so I tend to turn it off and just max out the setting when I'm outdoors. It seems a little brighter than my LG G3 and maybe slightly less than my Note 3.
Audio is such a pleasure on this device. I got the Hifi headphones with mine, and they're a bit bass heavy, but I'm still enjoying listening to a lot of different music. I've only played a little bit with the front and downward firing speakers. They seem loud. Nothing insane, but it seems a lot more clear than the single downward firing speaker on my Note 3 and G3. It feels a bit louder than the dual front facing speaker system I had on my Z3, but the IP certification on those always made the noise seem kind of muddled compared to the HTC 10.
I updated my phone right away to the latest update, so I haven't experienced any wifi issues.
I only toyed with the camera a little, but it seems impressive from what I've seen. I've played with an S7E a bit, and yeah, it doesn't seem as fast, but to be honest, I'm not sure I care as long as the quality is there, and it seems to be.
No complaints. Just a little pleasure. I'm doing a lot of gaming on it right now and using Boost+ to minimize resolution. The phone stays a lot cooler than my Note 3 and G3 by a pretty long way.
One peeve I do have is that the glass is curved a bit more than I was anticipating so when I received my glass screen protector, I thought to myself,
"Wow, this looks a lot smaller than I thought it would be," but as I applied it, I realized the screen protector was still too big and there's some left surrounding the edges where the phone is. I don't know if there will ever be a screen protector that goes all around, but I also don't like the idea of not having tempered glass on my screen protector.
It's just such a lovely phone. I've gone through a lot of phones over the years, but this one is special.

ufkal said:
I just got my HTC 10. Evidently a bit early. I pre ordered on VZW and paid $14 for noon delivery on the 5th. I was shocked to see it show up here today. If I had been home, I would have gotten it even sooner than I did.
I'm looking forward to everyone's thoughts and impressions. I'm just now getting to unbox it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You started a good thing and I'd love to have you continue here. Did you take any pics when you unboxed it???
thegrants82 said:
Got my vz 10 this afternoon. Usual bloat. Phone is heavy, camera lags. I think my 5x is faster and my s7 takes way better pics. Not seeing it worth the money so I am returning it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think of the screen?

Moderator Information,
Thread has been cleaned. If you have an issue with a post do not reply to it and flame other users thank you.

RCJ89 said:
How is call quality and loudness?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Call quality is great, you'll have a bit harder time to match the earpiece to your ear because of the smaller speaker grill, but once there it's excellent

For those that have it how does it feel in the hand for one handed use? One of things that's concerning me a little. Its not the smallest of the 5.2" phones and I wish it was.
Played with one a few weeks back but it was so briefly I don't remember much lmao
Oh and hows the front camera for things like snapchat?

What's the notification light like? Is it RGB?
Usually it' so tiny on a HTC phone.

CafeKampuchia said:
You started a good thing and I'd love to have you continue here. Did you take any pics when you unboxed it???
What do you think of the screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did take a pic of it in the box with the lid off, but that is pretty generic.
The following are my opinions only:
I've been using the phone for a few hours. I feel the one handed use is better than the LG V10.
The camera is good enough for me. Snappy, little lag. But I'm not a professional, nor do I buy the phone to take professional quality pics.
Phone quality - Great. We never talk about it. Crisp and clear. Good connections. I like it.
Almost no bloat. I mean seriously. Where is it. There are a few things on it that can be removed. Games etc. But its not overpowering like some other flagships I've played with.
I refuse to talk about battery life until I've used the phone for 3 or 4 days and stop touching it like the damn nerd I am.
Overall - At this point I'm lovin it. Especially since I got it early. LOL.

@ufkal, you get 10 bonus points for having XDA on the screen behind the box Don't use them all at once

mnguyen127 said:
I'm using an unlocked white/silver UK model on Tmobile network at the moment, and it works beautifully. Figured it'd work since prior I used an unlocked Compact Z3 that supported pretty much the same bands. I'm loving this phone. The responsiveness of the screen is probably one of the most underrated features that I love. On prior phones, especially my Z3 compact and sometimes my LG G3, the phones felt like they didn't always want to register my touches, but this is an entirely different story with this phone. In terms of screen brightness, I actually think it's pretty bright. I'm in California with clear whether and lots of sun, and I'm able to see outside with my phone pretty brightly. The auto brightness is kind of finicky though so I tend to turn it off and just max out the setting when I'm outdoors. It seems a little brighter than my LG G3 and maybe slightly less than my Note 3.
Audio is such a pleasure on this device. I got the Hifi headphones with mine, and they're a bit bass heavy, but I'm still enjoying listening to a lot of different music. I've only played a little bit with the front and downward firing speakers. They seem loud. Nothing insane, but it seems a lot more clear than the single downward firing speaker on my Note 3 and G3. It feels a bit louder than the dual front facing speaker system I had on my Z3, but the IP certification on those always made the noise seem kind of muddled compared to the HTC 10.
I updated my phone right away to the latest update, so I haven't experienced any wifi issues.
I only toyed with the camera a little, but it seems impressive from what I've seen. I've played with an S7E a bit, and yeah, it doesn't seem as fast, but to be honest, I'm not sure I care as long as the quality is there, and it seems to be.
No complaints. Just a little pleasure. I'm doing a lot of gaming on it right now and using Boost+ to minimize resolution. The phone stays a lot cooler than my Note 3 and G3 by a pretty long way.
One peeve I do have is that the glass is curved a bit more than I was anticipating so when I received my glass screen protector, I thought to myself,
"Wow, this looks a lot smaller than I thought it would be," but as I applied it, I realized the screen protector was still too big and there's some left surrounding the edges where the phone is. I don't know if there will ever be a screen protector that goes all around, but I also don't like the idea of not having tempered glass on my screen protector.
It's just such a lovely phone. I've gone through a lot of phones over the years, but this one is special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any chance you have someone near that has a activated Verizon sim, and can test if it works for the Unlocked 10? Many of us would be very grateful!

For those who have just gotten their 10, have you been able to do a system update? I "Check for new system update" in settings, and the phone just sits there, checking for new software. please wait. . For real I'm at 8 minutes right now, so I'm guessing its not working.
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------
I think I may have found my first "complaint" with the phone. and its more with the software. And probably with me not knowing what I'm doing.
I use my phone for work and personal. So all my work contacts are in a group. On previous devices I could assign a ringtone to a group, so I would know if the incoming call was from work, or from one of the kids on the team I coach etc. you follow?
I do not appear to be able to do that with this particular device. I can assign individual ringtones. But that would take hours......
So. unless I'm missing something pretty basic. My first complaint...

awareunlikeu said:
Any chance you have someone near that has a activated Verizon sim, and can test if it works for the Unlocked 10? Many of us would be very grateful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't, sorry. We're all on Tmobile network here at home.
---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
ufkal said:
For those who have just gotten their 10, have you been able to do a system update? I "Check for new system update" in settings, and the phone just sits there, checking for new software. please wait. . For real I'm at 8 minutes right now, so I'm guessing its not working.
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------
I think I may have found my first "complaint" with the phone. and its more with the software. And probably with me not knowing what I'm doing.
I use my phone for work and personal. So all my work contacts are in a group. On previous devices I could assign a ringtone to a group, so I would know if the incoming call was from work, or from one of the kids on the team I coach etc. you follow?
I do not appear to be able to do that with this particular device. I can assign individual ringtones. But that would take hours......
So. unless I'm missing something pretty basic. My first complaint...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using the unlocked UK model, I was able to get the update immediately. It was actually the first thing I did after gone through the initial setup.

@home said:
What's the notification light like? Is it RGB?
Usually it' so tiny on a HTC phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's working on two colors and using light flow lite I could only get green and yellow as usual. Maybe needs kernel mod as there's some rumor it's capable of rgb.
But anyway the LED is bigger than on m9 or m7
Much easier to notice

tbalden said:
It's working on two colors and using light flow lite I could only get green and yellow as usual. Maybe needs kernel mod as there's some rumor it's capable of rgb.
But anyway the LED is bigger than on m9 or m7
Much easier to notice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers.
I don't want to have to mod to get RGB. HTC why do you not just fit one as std.

ufkal said:
For those who have just gotten their 10, have you been able to do a system update? I "Check for new system update" in settings, and the phone just sits there, checking for new software. please wait. . For real I'm at 8 minutes right now, so I'm guessing its not working.
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------
I think I may have found my first "complaint" with the phone. and its more with the software. And probably with me not knowing what I'm doing.
I use my phone for work and personal. So all my work contacts are in a group. On previous devices I could assign a ringtone to a group, so I would know if the incoming call was from work, or from one of the kids on the team I coach etc. you follow?
I do not appear to be able to do that with this particular device. I can assign individual ringtones. But that would take hours......
So. unless I'm missing something pretty basic. My first complaint...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
St. Louis as in St. Louis in Missouri in USA? Is the update actually available in the USA?
1.30.xxx.x has been available in Europe + Asia (EMEA) but it was said that the 1.30.xxx.x would arrive in USA end of this week.
I'm trying to remember whose tweet that was or where I read it but can't for the life of me find it right now.