Related
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
Consider this the beginning of the end.
TROLLS/FLAMERS/FANBOYS
As of this moment Zero Tolerance is in effect. What does that mean for you?
It means...
1. Trolls - you are not wanted/needed
2. Flamers - you will not be tolerated
3. Fan boys - I'm glad you are a fan of a certain developer. That gives you no right to bash/flame/troll anyone
You will be infracted quickly and without warning. Do it again after that and you will be banned no questions asked.
A lot of the trolls/flamers/fanboys here think they are cool, just floating under the radar to avoid repercussions. Well, we have been watching you, and its ending.
So in short.
Consider this your final warning
I don't care who you are, this applies to everyone.
Thanks.
Edit from the Archangel: if you see problems arising, pm us mods or report it, we will jump on it ASAP. This won't work unless yall help us out to help the community.
I see no problems. I actually encourage this. Good luck :thumbup:
Papa Smurf151 said:
Consider this the beginning of the end.
TROLLS/FLAMERS/FANBOYS
As of this moment Zero Tolerance is in effect. What does that mean for you?
It means...
1. Trolls - you are not wanted/needed
2. Flamers - you will not be tolerated
3. Fan boys - I'm glad you are a fan of a certain developer. That gives you no right to bash/flame/troll anyone
You will be infracted quickly and without warning. Do it again after that and you will be banned no questions asked.
A lot of the trolls/flamers/fanboys here think they are cool, just floating under the radar to avoid repercussions. Well, we have been watching you, and its ending.
So in short.
Consider this your final warning
I don't care who you are, this applies to everyone.
Thanks.
Edit from the Archangel: if you see problems arising, pm us mods or report it, we will jump on it ASAP. This won't work unless yall help us out to help the community.
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Thanks for this sharp anti-flame blade! off with their heads!
very good idea, zero tolerance helps especially when wrong buttons are pushed. :good:
I'm in for the war against anti flaming
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Zomfg Y I NO HAZ FLAME!
no but seriously thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
this includes the conduct of 'developers' also, correct ?
It goes both ways, some of the developers are just as bad and one of them is out of control. Not going to say who but I'm sure we all can figure it out. We are all here to learn, and have fun messing with our phones. It shouldn't be so much drama with one another. I do appreciate all the developers but they also need to follow the no drama rules. If someone has an issue take it to a pm or just go straight to a moderator to handle it.
Also if someone can't read and posts something in the wrong area, instead of ripping him a new one just ignore it. Then report it to a mod and have him deal with it, that would keep all the drama down to a minimum.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Ok..so what is the exact definition of a troll? I know Apple is a patent troll but what would a forum troll be? I'm getting to old for this internet language.
Android is upgrading...
This goes for everyone...but in a thread the originator especially in a dev thread has control of how much offtopic chat and if the have a general and/or q&a thread for their rom they hsve control of questions being redirected to the appropriate thread. That being said trolling and flaming will not be tolerated. We are all expected to act civilized and like adults. The childish back and forth is over. And please don't call others out in public. Report the issue and we will deal with them directly. Calling them out in public will gey u infracted.
A troll is someone who is pretty much causing issues witj othet users on the forum or just derailing the thread non stop. They r obvious to spot...they r usually sitting around trying to poke a sleeping bear with a stick lol
XDA Moderator
FINALLY!! layeth the smacketh down!
Papa Smurf151 said:
This goes for everyone...but in a thread the originator especially in a dev thread has control of how much offtopic chat and if the have a general and/or q&a thread for their rom they hsve control of questions being redirected to the appropriate thread. That being said trolling and flaming will not be tolerated. We are all expected to act civilized and like adults. The childish back and forth is over. And please don't call others out in public. Report the issue and we will deal with them directly. Calling them out in public will gey u infracted.
A troll is someone who is pretty much causing issues witj othet users on the forum or just derailing the thread non stop. They r obvious to spot...they r usually sitting around trying to poke a sleeping bear with a stick lol
XDA Moderator
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Well geez...let me give you a list! Lol
Android is upgrading...
wavrunrx said:
this includes the conduct of 'developers' also, correct ?
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"Developers" are treated the same as "users".
task650 said:
"Developers" are treated the same as "users".
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Sounds like you guys roll with the developers because the ones I've "met" have been great
Android is upgrading...
Understanding Fail....
I actually thought this was some mod.
Reading and understanding failure...
Btw i think this forum is pretty clean, comparing to youtube comments.
Still glad some moderator are there for look out
Now THIS is a great thread! I'm "born again" to this community ( had an iPhone and came back) and yesterday I was made out to look like a douche by two guys for no reason and although I bring nothing spectacular to this community, I almost left this forum due to childish attitudes. Threads like this are the reason why I stay and bought another Android phone.
Thanks mod.
---------- Post added at 08:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------
Also, this should be sticky'd.
JediNinjafication said:
Ok..so what is the exact definition of a troll? I know Apple is a patent troll but what would a forum troll be? I'm getting to old for this internet language.
Android is upgrading...
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Wikipedia definitions, which I think nail it:
Troll - Someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Flaming - Hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.
boostnek9 said:
Now THIS is a great thread! I'm "born again" to this community ( had an iPhone and came back) and yesterday I was made out to look like a douche by two guys for no reason and although I bring nothing spectacular to this community, I almost left this forum due to childish attitudes. Threads like this are the reason why I stay and bought another Android phone.
Thanks mod.
---------- Post added at 08:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------
Also, this should be sticky'd.
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i feel you on that one. I've been lurking h here for a couple years but only started posting recently. Had done dude totally make snide and rude comments and when i said thanks but would seek help elsewhere he then started pm-ing me talking trash. Basically said I need to sit in corner and not participate.
Android is upgrading...
I'm going to lay this down now. I swear to android, if I see one freaking post bout underwear ANYWHERE,but tasks thread, your getting tossed out for a vacation ASAP by me.One more thing, keep the dam tags useful no more useless crap, that's also staring to tick me off.
I am dead serious on this!!!
For a long time I've been a 'silent' reader of the XDA-Forum.
Today I wanted to post a question in the development section of a phone. Therefore I registered a new account for me, but unfortunately I was unable to post the question, as there is a restriction saying you need 10 posts before you were allowed to post in a development section.
As the question is quite important to me, I made up my mind and thought: well, then I've to write 10 posts in different forums, so I'm able to post the original question - does that make sense, I guess not?
Luckily I hit another restriction - as a new user you are only allowed to post every 5 minutes
So the question is, is it really necessary to have these strict posting restrictions (10 posts) on the development section?
You would be amazed by the amount of spammers and random posts we got away by these rules.
Well if you have a question it needs to go in the q/a section for your device. The development section is only for development, this is why the rules are in place to try and prevent stuff being posted in the wrong section
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Once you are past the restrictions, you'll find you can do anything. The reason for these restrictions is because the overarching majority of users who are new here refuse to follow the rules on posting. Therefore, the best way to deal with this is to restrict new users from posting in development areas, as these are the places new users tend to abuse with questions or stupid comments.
Once you're past the restrictions you'll find it's OK
oliman99 said:
...I wanted to post a question in the development section of a phone. Therefore I registered a new account for me, but unfortunately I was unable to post the question, as there is a restriction saying you need 10 posts before you were allowed to post in a development section.?
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This is exactly why these restrictions are in place. It is useful when joining a site to learn how it operates first. If you have a question it should go in the Q&A sections, not in Development.
If you post 10 useful and helpful posts then you should be able to move past the restrictions. Pleae don't be tempted to post spam as these posts will be deleted.
All that said, wlcome to XDA!
WB
I understand that these restrictions were put in place to keep spammers and the "of course i used search and googled it" away, but as being a long time silent observer and have tested roms before my first post and didn't feel the need to have someone hold my hand as I flashed away, I felt that I should inform the developers of the bugs I have found or to simply thank them.
But with these restrictions in place it meant I had to spam some threads to get to 10 posts which always kept me away. Well now I decided to get those 10 posts, registered and started (mildly) spamming. Up to three posts now.
What I'm trying to say is that with these restrictions you are also keeping away some people that know what they are doing (when it comes to flashing and testing roms) and don't feel the need to ask questions that have been answered many times before.
Just my two cents.
zer081 said:
What I'm trying to say is that with these restrictions you are also keeping away some people that know what they are doing (when it comes to flashing and testing roms) and don't feel the need to ask questions that have been answered many times before.
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If People know what they're doing then they should be posting with helpful replies instead of spamming. I bet 99% of the questions/comments from People who start these kinds of threads have already been raised on the original thread or is some noob like comment that doesn't need to be posted in the first place.
The fact that you couldn't be bothered to search and find the other 1,000 threads here complaining about the very same thing is proof such restrictions are needed.
XperienceD said:
If People know what they're doing then they should be posting with helpful replies instead of spamming. I bet 99% of the questions/comments from People who start these kinds of threads have already been raised on the original thread or is some noob like comment that doesn't need to be posted in the first place.
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What he said.
Anyone "kept away" by these restrictions is probably better off on another site anyway.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I went through the same exact frustration with the posting rules. When I read about making meaningful posts vs spam/non-helpful for the first 10 all I could think of was... "well, I want to make a meaningful post in regards to a particular rom in the development area, but to do so I have to find other avenues that could be helpful."
I've got no issue with the tight rules to keep spam down, but I imagine I would have above 50 posts right now in development areas but I always shrugged it off and made no reply, which is not helpful to anyone. Now I'm in the process of getting my posts so I can finally contribute.
swhitney2003 said:
I went through the same exact frustration with the posting rules. When I read about making meaningful posts vs spam/non-helpful for the first 10 all I could think of was... "well, I want to make a meaningful post in regards to a particular rom in the development area, but to do so I have to find other avenues that could be helpful."
I've got no issue with the tight rules to keep spam down, but I imagine I would have above 50 posts right now in development areas but I always shrugged it off and made no reply, which is not helpful to anyone. Now I'm in the process of getting my posts so I can finally contribute.
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I am a new member but I have been lurking for a while. I was just lazy to make an account but now that I want to get involved with helping developers clear up bugs I cant because I need at least 10 posts. kinda sucks
wendys8 said:
I am a new member but I have been lurking for a while. I was just lazy to make an account but now that I want to get involved with helping developers clear up bugs I cant because I need at least 10 posts. kinda sucks
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If you really need to contact a dev you could always pm him
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
zacthespack said:
If you really need to contact a dev you could always pm him
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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This is true. I just need to up my post count to 10 I believe anyway so I will just blabber for now lol
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
wendys8 said:
This is true. I just need to up my post count to 10 I believe anyway so I will just blabber for now lol
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
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I think your missing the point, your posts should be useful posts.
Try helping people in the general and QandA sections and not just writing pointless posts
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
zacthespack said:
I think your missing the point, your posts should be useful posts.
Try helping people in the general and QandA sections and not just writing pointless posts
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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I'm not missing the point, I understand what you are saying, I just believe I could be much more helpful in the development thread, and besides that's the reason I signed up. Not to be forced to go help somewhere I'm not interested in. I came to consult with others in a particular section of the forum specifically and i can't until I go somewhere else and post, that's all I'm trying to say. It's not a huge deal just don't think it necessarily helps me in this case. Although I could see some good reasons as to why they do this.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
wendys8 said:
I'm not missing the point, I understand what you are saying, I just believe I could be much more helpful in the development thread, and besides that's the reason I signed up. Not to be forced to go help somewhere I'm not interested in. I came to consult with others in a particular section of the forum specifically and i can't until I go somewhere else and post, that's all I'm trying to say. It's not a huge deal just don't think it necessarily helps me in this case. Although I could see some good reasons as to why they do this.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
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The 10 post rule is there for a cause.To prevent the spamming of dev section.
How can I post in dev section? Simple, you make 10 meaningful posts by helping others as zacthespack already stated.
If you can help others in the development section, then I am pretty sure you can do the same in the General and Q&A section also..And what is it that you want to consult in?
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
True, but for myself as a long time reader I have a bug to report on paranoidandroids recent beta. Instead of posting that observation, I find myself trolling forums looking for meaningful things to say to get my 10 posts. Its funny that dd-wrt forums don't have this restriction, and I don't see these spamming issues or silly restrictions. Basically I feel that the community on here is a bit sanctimonious and pompous.
zacthespack said:
Well if you have a question it needs to go in the q/a section for your device. The development section is only for development, this is why the rules are in place to try and prevent stuff being posted in the wrong section
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
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---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------
I don't get it. Why would I want to spend my time replying to someone in a Q&A section when they could look up the answer for themselves? That reminds me of students of mine asking a question that's answered in the book in bold text. Are we just enabling noobish people to remain noobs and not think through problems for themselves?
Prawesome said:
The 10 post rule is there for a cause.To prevent the spamming of dev section.
How can I post in dev section? Simple, you make 10 meaningful posts by helping others as zacthespack already stated.
If you can help others in the development section, then I am pretty sure you can do the same in the General and Q&A section also..And what is it that you want to consult in?
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
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i have a serious problem
Dear Sir
iam changing my phone sim 3times continue.
after that iam restarting my phone.
buy my phone hanged at samsung first screen,
after i am updating firm ware using odin.
but my phone not turn on.that is sucked at android factory reset window.
the error is cant unmount sdcard...etc
my phone model is samsung si9003
plz can you help me about my phone how to turn on as usual.
plz suggest me about upgrading.
or give any solution for me plz
d3hilton said:
True, but for myself as a long time reader I have a bug to report on paranoidandroids recent beta. Instead of posting that observation, I find myself trolling forums looking for meaningful things to say to get my 10 posts. Its funny that dd-wrt forums don't have this restriction, and I don't see these spamming issues or silly restrictions. Basically I feel that the community on here is a bit sanctimonious and pompous.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------
I don't get it. Why would I want to spend my time replying to someone in a Q&A section when they could look up the answer for themselves? That reminds me of students of mine asking a question that's answered in the book in bold text. Are we just enabling noobish people to remain noobs and not think through problems for themselves?
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dd probably doesn't have close to 5 million users either
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Well, time to close this one as it's just attracting people who want to make ten useless posts. Which will be deleted by the way.....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I really dont understand this culture of being royal pricks to anyone new, confused, lazy etc. whether the HAVE OR HAVE NOT done a search. Perhaps this is the way I grew up, but I think it's an important quality to be nice to others whether they are in front of you or behind a monitor. It seems that there is a competition of sorts to see who can be douchier to the people asking questions, because they think it scores them respect points with a developer, and who's the best at showing appreciation, which in this little dichotomy is a good thing turned sour.
I find that if one wants to show appreciation, one can be an active member in the forums, participating in the answering of questions, so that the developer doesnt have to. Its clear to me that those being jerks have NOT answered many questions and show a disdain for the questioner as if they have. Many online communities are plagued by this behavior and I see that little by little this one is sinking to the likes of other online flame-war communities.
Chill out. Be Cool. Be Helpful. Be Kind. Its a simple mantra that should go a long way in furthering discourse, knowledge and resources.
**Edit** Think of a device you like, other than the device's forum this thread is in, and post this or a similar thread if one doesnt exist. Lets see if we can spread this message.
Well it is actually the first rule in the forum rules to search before posting
While that doesn't give people a reason to be rude like 90% of the time the answer is in the op or within a few pages.
Plus more often than not it's the people asking the same thing over and over about issues that have been talked about a lot that gets people annoyed.
eBoody said:
I really dont understand this culture of being royal pricks to anyone new, confused, lazy etc. whether the HAVE OR HAVE NOT done a search. Perhaps this is the way I grew up, but I think it's an important quality to be nice to others whether they are in front of you or behind a monitor. It seems that there is a competition of sorts to see who can be douchier to the people asking questions, because they think it scores them respect points with a developer, and who's the best at showing appreciation, which in this little dichotomy is a good thing turned sour.
I find that if one wants to show appreciation, one can be an active member in the forums, participating in the answering of questions, so that the developer doesnt have to. Its clear to me that those being jerks have NOT answered many questions and show a disdain for the questioner as if they have. Many online communities are plagued by this behavior and I see that little by little this one is sinking to the likes of other online flame-war communities.
Chill out. Be Cool. Be Helpful. Be Kind. Its a simple mantra that should go a long way in furthering discourse, knowledge and resources.
**Edit** Think of a device you like, other than the device's forum this thread is in, and post this or a similar thread if one doesnt exist. Lets see if we can spread this message.
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While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
I an very guilty of that. I help noobs but when I help and you ignore then you get rude answers. It simple.
NOTE 4
My general rule of thumb for myself when joining a new thread is to read the first 5 pages and the most recent 5 pages. If I don't find my answer in there then I'll ask it. I still try and read the whole thread whenever possible, but when they get 100+ pages I might not have the time before I need my issue resolved.
Knocked off my LG-D851
grayfoxmg1 said:
My general rule of thumb for myself when joining a new thread is to read the first 5 pages and the most recent 5 pages. If I don't find my answer in there then I'll ask it. I still try and read the whole thread whenever possible, but when they get 100+ pages I might not have the time before I need my issue resolved.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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That's exactly what I do. I also use the "Search Thread" thing off to the right. If I don't see what i need using those methods, then I ask.
I've been a member of XDA for a long time, since I had my HTC Kaiser running WinMo6.5(remember when that was everyone's go to platform?) and I've never had a bad experience here. I've also been a part of a few different communities here and been everything from a non-participating observer, to a standard user, to a beta tester, and a major debugger so it isn't that I stayed in my own little corner of XDA where everything was sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns(shout out to AOKP). About the only place I haven't at least visited is the Samsung and Sony threads because I haven't had one of their devices. No particular reason, something more attractive just normally pops up.
Now while I've never seen anyone go full on douche to someone in the threads, there have been a LOT of noobs that ask questions that could have been solved either one or two pages back. The worst are the ones that only read the OP and then ask a question without reading any other post in the thread(you can normally recognize them because they inadvertently quote the OP). So while a reminder to everyone that we are one of the last bastions of real internet hospitality isn't a bad thing, i think the problem isn't as big as it's made out to be. The biggest problem(which I have been guilty of) is when 2 or 3 members go off on a tangent in a thread for a page or two. The mods have to normally come in and clean the thread. While that is an inconvenience, it isn't something malicious so I am proud that is our biggest problem.
TL;DR: I don't think the problem is that big, everyone just needs to remember 2 things in XDA:
1. Search before posting
2. Treat everyone how you wish to be treated
Im well aware of the circumstances. Those being that people ask questions that have been answered before. My point is, rather than saying "its ridiculous" or completely bash on them, just ignore, or just answer it and point out thats the answer to the question is available in the OP and that one of the rules of this forum is to search first, then ask. Ive done this, and ive seen other people do it, and the response is CONSTRUCTIVE. They apologize, acknowledge and move on.
I just read some people's responses and shake my head.
Plus its the DEVELOPER that should be hot and bothered about answering questions. Not us.
Been on these boards since around 2007(may have been lurking a little before that), and i have never once been asked/told to search. I made it my business to research how this forum functions and I acted accordingly, at the same instance I have never told anyone to search for the answer they asked, personally i think it takes more effort and space to tell someone to search rather than to just ignore them, but again this is just my personal approach, and if someone was spamming the thread with the same question then i could understand the frustration.
cvsolidx17 said:
While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
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your first paragraph and last sentence are in complete opposite of each other...instead of being douchey, tell them "hey...go here to find your answer" and if they still don't get it, by all means help them...but don't be a prick outright...often times you can tell if they've searched for the answer or not before posting...if they haven't and they asked before they did any work themselves, SO WHAT!? what's the point of these forums if they're not to provide a central location for people to find the answers they seek?
Yes let's help lazy people who want the answer the easy way. I search and search through forums and when i absolutely cant find the answer i ask for help, but no lets help people who dont want to do some research. This thread is the reason people feel like they can ask stupid lazy questions. Good job bro.
Still_living714 said:
Yes let's help lazy people who want the answer the easy way. I search and search through forums and when i absolutely cant find the answer i ask for help, but no lets help people who dont want to do some research. This thread is the reason people feel like they can ask stupid lazy questions. Good job bro.
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Simply ignore those people if you don't want to help them...let someone else do it, 'bro'.
There are moderators here. No member needs to tell any member the rules or what they should or shouldn't do.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
cvsolidx17 said:
While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
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That may be so but it is not your job to address these things or any other members job unless they are a mod.
Ignore and move on.
Plus, some people are using a mobile device and search on the XDA app is not always so easy.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
That's something I agree too. Search on Tapatalk is finiky at best.
Knocked off my LG-D851
As some one here that has participated a lot in both the Thunderbolt and GS4 forums I can tell you that too many posters come in here and do not take any time whatsoever to research anything before they start asking questions that have been answered hundred times. Many are so bad they NEVER look at the stickies in the general or Q&A forums where most of the questions and/or links to information exist. I had one poster tell me his time was too fricken valueable to take the time to read threads and he EXPECTED answers to his questions....If you are not taking an hour or two to research an issue then YOU are not doing your due diligence. There is practically no question that an answer can't be found if you take that time. Besides, if will add so much more to your own knowledge of your device instead of seeking intellectual handouts.,
If you don't read the stickies and take some time for basic research then your deserve a bit of ridicule. If you ask about rom updates or release dates or why isn't more being done, you deserve some chastisement. We have a lot of devs who end up volunteering a lot of their time in putting out a product that most users never shell out a nickel for, where most users ask for never ending support with little research on their end, again without shelling out a nickel. We have a lot of others who provide a lot of information to people and we do it gladly to help but you do have to try to help yourself too............
Richieboy67 said:
There are moderators here. No member needs to tell any member the rules or what they should or shouldn't do.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
That may be so but it is not your job to address these things or any other members job unless they are a mod.
Ignore and move on.
Plus, some people are using a mobile device and search on the XDA app is not always so easy.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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grayfoxmg1 said:
That's something I agree too. Search on Tapatalk is finiky at best.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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Then use your browser .. There is no excuse. Moderators are far and few between, and have their own personal lives. The users are what make a forum, not moderators. We try to encourage people to search and not just ask questions, because that helps the community on a whole. I don't support leeches. How do people not have the time to search, but they can post and wait an hour or so for someone to reply? That isn't acceptable to me.
dictionary said:
Then use your browser .. There is no excuse. Moderators are far and few between, and have their own personal lives. The users are what make a forum, not moderators. We try to encourage people to search and not just ask questions, because that helps the community on a whole. I don't support leeches. How do people not have the time to search, but they can post and wait an hour or so for someone to reply? That isn't acceptable to me.
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Check my other posts before you call me a leech, I was just agreeing the search on the mobile applications needs to be worked on. Thus I tend to cut people who's posts end with a Tapatalk or xda-mobile signature some slack. If the answer is on the OP or within 5 pages of the post I still get upset.
Knocked off my LG-D851
I don't hear you whining about these posts where people like you spend more time complaining then politely explaining an answer or suggestion.
I'm not saying people shouldn't search but it is bad enough to see all those posts and then on top of it have to read many others just crying about it.
I build and run forums for a living. There are ways XDA could fix this by incorporating some modifications and buy changing search indexing settings.
And by you and others complaining you only make the mods jobs harder because now they have to weed through them too.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------
And using the term "leech" is just stupid and uncalled for. I guess this is the nastiness being mentioned in the op.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Richieboy67 said:
I don't hear you whining about these posts where people like you spend more time complaining then politely explaining an answer or suggestion.
I'm not saying people shouldn't search but it is bad enough to see all those posts and then on top of it have to read many others just crying about it.
I build and run forums for a living. There are ways XDA could fix this by incorporating some modifications and buy changing search indexing settings.
And by you and others complaining you only make the mods jobs harder because now they have to weed through them too.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------
And using the term "leech" is just stupid and uncalled for. I guess this is the nastiness being mentioned in the op.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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I have helped more than enough people, both on here and off. If me calling someone who only cares about themselves and not giving back a leech seriously is a problem, though I've helped tons, then people need thicker skin. I'm not cursing, yelling, belittling people's intelligence, or any of the sort. If someone only takes and doesn't give back, they are a leech. It's honestly very simple.
grayfoxmg1 said:
Check my other posts before you call me a leech, I was just agreeing the search on the mobile applications needs to be worked on. Thus I tend to cut people who's posts end with a Tapatalk or xda-mobile signature some slack. If the answer is on the OP or within 5 pages of the post I still get upset.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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Wasn't referring to you, was just speaking about the users who just come, ask questions, then disappear. Sorry for the confusion.
Yes, people search the net and come here to ask a question. That is how most people end up at forums. Not everyone is a tech head and wants to stick around. That is not a leech and try to remember this site makes money by getting traffic.
I don't see how calling anyone a leech is helpful at all.
Furthermore, not everyone really knows how a forum works. Maybe a single person can politely mention a search may help but I don't see how 15 people blasting someone for asking a question helps the site at all.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Looks like root threads are getting shut down due to negative comments. Well they are a part of forums. Go look on everyone. You have to take the good and bad XDA is no different. I've been a member for 7 years and to see such a vital thread shut down makes me think the moderator is a tmobile user trying to derail us. No thread is perfect at all. Are the moderators helping with root or just using their opinions on posts to say whether or not they are valid. So hundreds and hundreds of users are dependent upon the thoughts of 1 or 2 people whether or not a thread is valid? Take the good with the bad people. Your not going to change anything except maybe losing people on XDA as they go to Android central or anything other forum. I'll probably get an infraction or banned but I'm staying an opinion just like forums were meant for along with information and facts.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using XDA Free mobile app
Ban the people not the thread!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using XDA Free mobile app
I can understand the ppl working hard to achieve what we all want( root) getting Pissed off about useless coments. I have to say the good outweighed the bad And was harsh to shut it down because of a few ppl trolling or have had nothing to contribute to the thread. Why do we all suffer because of very few ppl?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
brentsalinas714 said:
I can understand the ppl working hard to achieve what we all want( root) getting Pissed off about useless coments. I have to say the good outweighed the bad And was harsh to shut it down because of a few ppl trolling or have had nothing to contribute to the thread. Why do we all suffer because of very few ppl?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
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I PM'ed the moderator staff about this and was assured the current lock is only temporary. They also acknowledged the concerns you all are expressing. I would guess it is a TOS violation to copy & paste the private conversation here, but do know that they were not only appropriate in their response but also highly supportive of reinstituting the thread. However, there have been major issues with people not following instructions and posting off-topic and inappropriate messages. If you want to see the thread open back up, perhaps a better approach would be to do what I did and write a polite, formal request to the moderator staff rather than post threads complaining about their actions. The latter will only tick them off but lots of requests done in a professional, persistent but considerate manner is more likely to push them in the direction of unlocking that thread.
I understand your guys thoughts but this isn't the way to go about. Us people ready to do what we can with root just have to stay quite and wait say nothing.....
Idk if this will help out getting to root but there is a hidden menu in the dailer "*#0*#" to access camera functions. Idk if it would be easier to use that to access the exploit that was discovered because i don't dig that deep when it comes to tinkering with android but that's what I came cross.
1156 posts, what 100 useless, I was following the good and skipping the bulls#i+ it's not that hard... Common sense... No one has any anymore...
I hope it's not out of line to comment about this, but I would really appreciate the ban being lifted, too. I get that there were a lot of bad posts happening, and I understand why the moderators were forced to lock the thread, but please lift it soon. Developers were just making progress when you guys shut all conversation down. :/
Awesome way to stop development! Good job xda admins way to in force your dictatorship and stop the delopement of the GN4 since we didn't have enough trouble already
Ok, I know everyone is feeling distressed, I as well, once learning that a "Highly Productive Developement Thread" was closed down due to what reason(s) the moderator posted.
All that aside,
I have emailed the Administrator of XDA with my sincere expressed concerns reflecting to the "Loss of Developement" for not one, but several possible Samsung Note Variants. (I will not disclose or discuss the email.) Based on past experience with the person I emailed, I truly feel that person(s) will take the upmost and sincerest actions to best decide how to best handle this type of situation.
In the meantime,
I would ask that you Please keep this thread POSITIVE and Productive, and to to refrain from making "negative comments." Nothing will be gained from that except the locking of another thread...
If you truly want root,
Let's make it happen.
However go about it the professional & correct way.
Please let my post, be the last post,
So others will possibly read it and understand what it is we are trying to achieve. My sincerest thanks.
Developers don't need no stinkin' signature!
If I've been able to help you, please hit the "Thanks" button.
Most people with skills to root the note 4 aren't talking about it/brain storming on XDA. There is pretty good money involved, you can bet stuff isn't getting shared in a public forum. my last two devices that took a while to root were completely silent in the forums. not a peep till it was tested and ready to roll.
Profess = claim openly but often falsely that one has (a quality or feeling).
Profession = an open but often false declaration or claim.
Lets go about it the professional & often false way. Ehh?
Martinjv71 said:
Looks like root threads are getting shut down due to negative comments. Well they are a part of forums. Go look on everyone. You have to take the good and bad XDA is no different. I've been a member for 7 years and to see such a vital thread shut down makes me think the moderator is a tmobile user trying to derail us. No thread is perfect at all. Are the moderators helping with root or just using their opinions on posts to say whether or not they are valid. So hundreds and hundreds of users are dependent upon the thoughts of 1 or 2 people whether or not a thread is valid? Take the good with the bad people. Your not going to change anything except maybe losing people on XDA as they go to Android central or anything other forum. I'll probably get an infraction or banned but I'm staying an opinion just like forums were meant for along with information and facts.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's because a bunch of stupid people have to put their two cents in where it's not needed. The thread should have been strictly for discussing the exploits and code needed for rooting, not a bunch of "OMG CANT WAIT FOR R00T!" and whatever other nonsense bull**** that was being posted.
Because of a few idiots who need to have their keyboards taken away, we can't have nice things. This thread should be locked. Next person who makes a thread about root, or about the previous root thread should get banned.
</rant off>
One thing Xda admins need to learn is that there are people of all nationalities and ages on here. To think you're going to stop people from posting useless comments is stupid. You're not fixing anything XDA admins if anything you're making it worse. Don't punish thousands for something WE cannot control. There will always be people posting stupid crap get over it. The developers that were actually working on things probably didnt even notice the extra crap.
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Also thanks to Xda admins blocking our root progress page people are pulling money out of the root bounty. Xda admins = awesome job
Seriously?
And you wonder why the threads are closed!