I really dont understand this culture of being royal pricks to anyone new, confused, lazy etc. whether the HAVE OR HAVE NOT done a search. Perhaps this is the way I grew up, but I think it's an important quality to be nice to others whether they are in front of you or behind a monitor. It seems that there is a competition of sorts to see who can be douchier to the people asking questions, because they think it scores them respect points with a developer, and who's the best at showing appreciation, which in this little dichotomy is a good thing turned sour.
I find that if one wants to show appreciation, one can be an active member in the forums, participating in the answering of questions, so that the developer doesnt have to. Its clear to me that those being jerks have NOT answered many questions and show a disdain for the questioner as if they have. Many online communities are plagued by this behavior and I see that little by little this one is sinking to the likes of other online flame-war communities.
Chill out. Be Cool. Be Helpful. Be Kind. Its a simple mantra that should go a long way in furthering discourse, knowledge and resources.
**Edit** Think of a device you like, other than the device's forum this thread is in, and post this or a similar thread if one doesnt exist. Lets see if we can spread this message.
Well it is actually the first rule in the forum rules to search before posting
While that doesn't give people a reason to be rude like 90% of the time the answer is in the op or within a few pages.
Plus more often than not it's the people asking the same thing over and over about issues that have been talked about a lot that gets people annoyed.
eBoody said:
I really dont understand this culture of being royal pricks to anyone new, confused, lazy etc. whether the HAVE OR HAVE NOT done a search. Perhaps this is the way I grew up, but I think it's an important quality to be nice to others whether they are in front of you or behind a monitor. It seems that there is a competition of sorts to see who can be douchier to the people asking questions, because they think it scores them respect points with a developer, and who's the best at showing appreciation, which in this little dichotomy is a good thing turned sour.
I find that if one wants to show appreciation, one can be an active member in the forums, participating in the answering of questions, so that the developer doesnt have to. Its clear to me that those being jerks have NOT answered many questions and show a disdain for the questioner as if they have. Many online communities are plagued by this behavior and I see that little by little this one is sinking to the likes of other online flame-war communities.
Chill out. Be Cool. Be Helpful. Be Kind. Its a simple mantra that should go a long way in furthering discourse, knowledge and resources.
**Edit** Think of a device you like, other than the device's forum this thread is in, and post this or a similar thread if one doesnt exist. Lets see if we can spread this message.
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While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
I an very guilty of that. I help noobs but when I help and you ignore then you get rude answers. It simple.
NOTE 4
My general rule of thumb for myself when joining a new thread is to read the first 5 pages and the most recent 5 pages. If I don't find my answer in there then I'll ask it. I still try and read the whole thread whenever possible, but when they get 100+ pages I might not have the time before I need my issue resolved.
Knocked off my LG-D851
grayfoxmg1 said:
My general rule of thumb for myself when joining a new thread is to read the first 5 pages and the most recent 5 pages. If I don't find my answer in there then I'll ask it. I still try and read the whole thread whenever possible, but when they get 100+ pages I might not have the time before I need my issue resolved.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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That's exactly what I do. I also use the "Search Thread" thing off to the right. If I don't see what i need using those methods, then I ask.
I've been a member of XDA for a long time, since I had my HTC Kaiser running WinMo6.5(remember when that was everyone's go to platform?) and I've never had a bad experience here. I've also been a part of a few different communities here and been everything from a non-participating observer, to a standard user, to a beta tester, and a major debugger so it isn't that I stayed in my own little corner of XDA where everything was sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns(shout out to AOKP). About the only place I haven't at least visited is the Samsung and Sony threads because I haven't had one of their devices. No particular reason, something more attractive just normally pops up.
Now while I've never seen anyone go full on douche to someone in the threads, there have been a LOT of noobs that ask questions that could have been solved either one or two pages back. The worst are the ones that only read the OP and then ask a question without reading any other post in the thread(you can normally recognize them because they inadvertently quote the OP). So while a reminder to everyone that we are one of the last bastions of real internet hospitality isn't a bad thing, i think the problem isn't as big as it's made out to be. The biggest problem(which I have been guilty of) is when 2 or 3 members go off on a tangent in a thread for a page or two. The mods have to normally come in and clean the thread. While that is an inconvenience, it isn't something malicious so I am proud that is our biggest problem.
TL;DR: I don't think the problem is that big, everyone just needs to remember 2 things in XDA:
1. Search before posting
2. Treat everyone how you wish to be treated
Im well aware of the circumstances. Those being that people ask questions that have been answered before. My point is, rather than saying "its ridiculous" or completely bash on them, just ignore, or just answer it and point out thats the answer to the question is available in the OP and that one of the rules of this forum is to search first, then ask. Ive done this, and ive seen other people do it, and the response is CONSTRUCTIVE. They apologize, acknowledge and move on.
I just read some people's responses and shake my head.
Plus its the DEVELOPER that should be hot and bothered about answering questions. Not us.
Been on these boards since around 2007(may have been lurking a little before that), and i have never once been asked/told to search. I made it my business to research how this forum functions and I acted accordingly, at the same instance I have never told anyone to search for the answer they asked, personally i think it takes more effort and space to tell someone to search rather than to just ignore them, but again this is just my personal approach, and if someone was spamming the thread with the same question then i could understand the frustration.
cvsolidx17 said:
While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
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your first paragraph and last sentence are in complete opposite of each other...instead of being douchey, tell them "hey...go here to find your answer" and if they still don't get it, by all means help them...but don't be a prick outright...often times you can tell if they've searched for the answer or not before posting...if they haven't and they asked before they did any work themselves, SO WHAT!? what's the point of these forums if they're not to provide a central location for people to find the answers they seek?
Yes let's help lazy people who want the answer the easy way. I search and search through forums and when i absolutely cant find the answer i ask for help, but no lets help people who dont want to do some research. This thread is the reason people feel like they can ask stupid lazy questions. Good job bro.
Still_living714 said:
Yes let's help lazy people who want the answer the easy way. I search and search through forums and when i absolutely cant find the answer i ask for help, but no lets help people who dont want to do some research. This thread is the reason people feel like they can ask stupid lazy questions. Good job bro.
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Simply ignore those people if you don't want to help them...let someone else do it, 'bro'.
There are moderators here. No member needs to tell any member the rules or what they should or shouldn't do.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
cvsolidx17 said:
While some people have been extra douchey, it doesn't excuse the fact that the people they've been douchey to have been asking questions out of pure laziness. Time and time again these lazy a** people have been given the information they were seeking even though it was readily available for them in then OP.
The two most commonly asked questions in our G3 dev forums are "Is the camera working?" and "Is Bluetooth working?" . Two pieces of information outlined in the original post and provided at various points throughout the respective threads. Its absolutely ridiculous.
While some people probably come off stronger than they should that doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it for brownie points with the dev. I mean, what do they have to gain from these brownie points that we as a community don't gain already?
The reality is, these people who are being scolded for asking redundant questions took the time to come to XDA and to ask a question in a thread THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE AN ATTEMPT AT READING FIRST. All they do is clutter the threads up with nonsense. Stop patronizing them by implying that their hands should be held by us in the good spirit of helping. If you truly wanted to help them then you would teach them how to find the answers they seek rather than just giving it to them.
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That may be so but it is not your job to address these things or any other members job unless they are a mod.
Ignore and move on.
Plus, some people are using a mobile device and search on the XDA app is not always so easy.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
That's something I agree too. Search on Tapatalk is finiky at best.
Knocked off my LG-D851
As some one here that has participated a lot in both the Thunderbolt and GS4 forums I can tell you that too many posters come in here and do not take any time whatsoever to research anything before they start asking questions that have been answered hundred times. Many are so bad they NEVER look at the stickies in the general or Q&A forums where most of the questions and/or links to information exist. I had one poster tell me his time was too fricken valueable to take the time to read threads and he EXPECTED answers to his questions....If you are not taking an hour or two to research an issue then YOU are not doing your due diligence. There is practically no question that an answer can't be found if you take that time. Besides, if will add so much more to your own knowledge of your device instead of seeking intellectual handouts.,
If you don't read the stickies and take some time for basic research then your deserve a bit of ridicule. If you ask about rom updates or release dates or why isn't more being done, you deserve some chastisement. We have a lot of devs who end up volunteering a lot of their time in putting out a product that most users never shell out a nickel for, where most users ask for never ending support with little research on their end, again without shelling out a nickel. We have a lot of others who provide a lot of information to people and we do it gladly to help but you do have to try to help yourself too............
Richieboy67 said:
There are moderators here. No member needs to tell any member the rules or what they should or shouldn't do.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
That may be so but it is not your job to address these things or any other members job unless they are a mod.
Ignore and move on.
Plus, some people are using a mobile device and search on the XDA app is not always so easy.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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grayfoxmg1 said:
That's something I agree too. Search on Tapatalk is finiky at best.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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Then use your browser .. There is no excuse. Moderators are far and few between, and have their own personal lives. The users are what make a forum, not moderators. We try to encourage people to search and not just ask questions, because that helps the community on a whole. I don't support leeches. How do people not have the time to search, but they can post and wait an hour or so for someone to reply? That isn't acceptable to me.
dictionary said:
Then use your browser .. There is no excuse. Moderators are far and few between, and have their own personal lives. The users are what make a forum, not moderators. We try to encourage people to search and not just ask questions, because that helps the community on a whole. I don't support leeches. How do people not have the time to search, but they can post and wait an hour or so for someone to reply? That isn't acceptable to me.
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Check my other posts before you call me a leech, I was just agreeing the search on the mobile applications needs to be worked on. Thus I tend to cut people who's posts end with a Tapatalk or xda-mobile signature some slack. If the answer is on the OP or within 5 pages of the post I still get upset.
Knocked off my LG-D851
I don't hear you whining about these posts where people like you spend more time complaining then politely explaining an answer or suggestion.
I'm not saying people shouldn't search but it is bad enough to see all those posts and then on top of it have to read many others just crying about it.
I build and run forums for a living. There are ways XDA could fix this by incorporating some modifications and buy changing search indexing settings.
And by you and others complaining you only make the mods jobs harder because now they have to weed through them too.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------
And using the term "leech" is just stupid and uncalled for. I guess this is the nastiness being mentioned in the op.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Richieboy67 said:
I don't hear you whining about these posts where people like you spend more time complaining then politely explaining an answer or suggestion.
I'm not saying people shouldn't search but it is bad enough to see all those posts and then on top of it have to read many others just crying about it.
I build and run forums for a living. There are ways XDA could fix this by incorporating some modifications and buy changing search indexing settings.
And by you and others complaining you only make the mods jobs harder because now they have to weed through them too.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------
And using the term "leech" is just stupid and uncalled for. I guess this is the nastiness being mentioned in the op.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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I have helped more than enough people, both on here and off. If me calling someone who only cares about themselves and not giving back a leech seriously is a problem, though I've helped tons, then people need thicker skin. I'm not cursing, yelling, belittling people's intelligence, or any of the sort. If someone only takes and doesn't give back, they are a leech. It's honestly very simple.
grayfoxmg1 said:
Check my other posts before you call me a leech, I was just agreeing the search on the mobile applications needs to be worked on. Thus I tend to cut people who's posts end with a Tapatalk or xda-mobile signature some slack. If the answer is on the OP or within 5 pages of the post I still get upset.
Knocked off my LG-D851
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Wasn't referring to you, was just speaking about the users who just come, ask questions, then disappear. Sorry for the confusion.
Yes, people search the net and come here to ask a question. That is how most people end up at forums. Not everyone is a tech head and wants to stick around. That is not a leech and try to remember this site makes money by getting traffic.
I don't see how calling anyone a leech is helpful at all.
Furthermore, not everyone really knows how a forum works. Maybe a single person can politely mention a search may help but I don't see how 15 people blasting someone for asking a question helps the site at all.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Related
Really Really wish that XDA would lock everyday peeps from posting in ROM threads.
No matter how many times it is said, seems most do not follow directions then ask why, or ask if they do need to follow directions, or ask why some BS app like netflicks wont work with a different carrier on new ROM.
250 pages of posts and 248 are spam and crap from peeps that evidently should nopt be messing with their phones in the first place.
Sigh ok I feel better now....
What is the point in stopping the users of ROMs from posting about them?
I agree with the above posting, if you deny people from posting their questions, what they learned, what oddity they discovered in a new rom.......... well then, you stymie progress. And, after all isn't THAT what these forums are about? improving our experience and improving our learning ?
If you really look at ROM threads these day there is very little good information or even helpfull information being posted by the masses.
Create a spam thread for the ROM in general, and GOOD information can be transfered to the actual ROM thread in the Dev section.
Everyone is told to search and read first, and I have spent the last few years doing that with out having the need to repost questions that have already been posted. But I will admit that lately with as much growth as this sight has had, Threads are being crapped up so bad it makes it hard to do so, leading to a vicious circle.
Seriously in one ROM thread alone you have 280+ pages now in a fairly new thread, and 270 of the pages are junk posts.
and now how can i download new updates to americandroid rom???
Posting, not downloading.
So we know this is a problem, and we're willing to go to great lengths to protect the development parts of the site as per the announcement.
It's a tough balance, but we think restricting new replies for those with under 10 posts, and new threads for those with under 50 posts will help a lot.
svetius said:
So we know this is a problem, and we're willing to go to great lengths to protect the development parts of the site as per the announcement.
It's a tough balance, but we think restricting new replies for those with under 10 posts, and new threads for those with under 50 posts will help a lot.
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That could work. It really doesn't take long to post 50 times.
There has been a severe surge in noob activity and the search function has lost all use as they do not use it.
We get 10000000000000 threads all about the same problem.
There must be a way of getting them in control.
The worst is noobs in dev threads as they don't know **** and there for fill dev threads with utter spam and trash.
Help us obiwan kenobi your our only hope.
What if we make it so that you can "down-vote" replies, similar to reporting, and when 3-5 people down-vote the same post or user, it removes/hides the post and bans the user from posting in the thread for a period of time, while displaying a message saying so.
¤ you're ¤ our only hope
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Product F(RED) said:
What if we make it so that you can "down-vote" replies, similar to reporting, and when 3-5 people down-vote the same post or user, it removes/hides the post and bans the user from posting in the thread for a period of time, while displaying a message saying so.
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Could be abused..
OmegaRED^ said:
Could be abused..
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That's why I said 3-5 votes and also banned from posting in that thread for a period of time (ie 15 minutes). If we, the responsible members can't be trusted with something this simple, then there's no hope of fixing this.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
The OP should have used the search also. There is a very similar thread here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1070421
This whole topic is stupid if u don't like peeps posting stuff then don't read stuff or get off this sit. Now I feel better
Sent from my Liberty using XDA Premium App
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
BretonGirl said:
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
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even though ive given you a thanks or this, i do believe its set correctly. This forum has soooooo many existing users plus the new ones joining everyday its very suprising how little advertising,spamming goes on here and i do think its contributed by the new user rules.
I myself have only ever been a mod for a 200+ forum and the amount of spam we had to delete each day was a joke, imagine how many links around the web lead to xda....the amount of spam this site would be suffering had they not placed these rules the xda maybe not what we all cherish today
edit "NOTE", lol just wait until you accidentally post in the wrong section
I understand your situation, considering that you have been a forum moderator in other forums
But when I was a new user i never got to enter any captcha or so !
I have no clue that Captcha was being used on XDA to be honest!
But one thing that can help you is that you can answer others's questions in the Q and A forum of the device(s) you own. Helps to get that 10 post thing done early, especially if you know enough to help someone else out
Anyways all the best and you can PM me if you need any more help or you may contact a senior admin
just my 2 (+1) cents p) and Peace!
I've never been a moderator for any forum and even I know the effect spammers can have if the proper procedures don't take place.
But you gotta know, it's only for a few posts...it's not like you'll be entering captcha codes in forever and never be able to share weblinks or screen shots.
Just ride it out, we all had to
Well, this is a touchy subject.
Being such a high traffic forum we really do need aggressive anti spam measures.
As for the restrictions on the development sections.... We'll that's also a touchy subject but for entirely different reasons.
Once upon a time XDA was populated solely by developers, developers who developed for no other reason than the love of developing. Then the smartphone became accessible to more and more people, which led to more and more members who weren't developers. This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development forums.....
That's about it really.. Check out the sticky in this section for a more detailed explanation
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I appreciate everyone's replies. I have no problem with the 10 posts before getting access to the developer's section. You certainly don't want anything but quality in a section like that.
I also understand the spam issue. One of my day jobs is as a staff writer for a blog hosted by a company that makes anti-spam software. I know more than I ever wanted to on the subject!
This is a great forum!
I agree
The forum is very anti-noob. I hate entering capta images that I can hardly read, can only post every 5 minutes, this really sucks. I hope when I hit 10 posts this crap goes away
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
i kind of like the idea of captcha on the first few post i may use it on my site. i have a xbox modding site and it generates a bit of spam from time to time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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Yep, and at the same time most new users don't understand the concept of searching the forums so their first 10 posts which are asking rather than helping would probably have already been asked previously. i.e. forum gets cluttered up, which is pretty much a form of spam.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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Yeah exactly! And making ten posts isn't that time consuming either at the same time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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This is true as well. But if they need help they should be posting in the Q&A sections of their device not the development section.
I think the rules are there for a reason and the MODs and Admin have thought a lot on this issue and its only for first 10 posts.
It's not too bad, it's worth it.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------
I think if people were able to sign in with their google accounts though there wouldn't be need for all this...
conantroutman said:
This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development
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And now they post Questions in the general forums =.=
Sent from my E15i using Tapatalk
We're always trying to make things better on the forums. This means we have to try stuff to see if it works. It's basically trial & error for the most part.
The spamming has decreased alot the past couple of months with the new captchas and 10 post rule. Still, we need to find a way to make it less difficult to join our forums and more difficult to post spam. Ideas are always welcome of course.
Annoying for non noobs
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
Slotty_AU said:
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
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Is it so much to ask that you read for a bit first, pick up some knowledge and experience, help a few people in the 90+% of the site which is completely open to you such as your devices General or Q&A forums or any of the General discussion forums, to participate with quality posts instead of BS posts, in return for being able to post into any of the ROM threads from any dev on this site?
I've had the immense privilege of watching this site grow since just a couple months after it introduced a few new phone models to the original O2 XDA. I actually get my soap opera fix and tech fix all in one! I'm hooked.
It's not just spam. I was a horrendous new user, posting in the wrong forum, responding to emotional posts enough to encourage them, I even chewed out a guy for blasting a noob. The problem is organic, and though spam has become part of that (probably the hugest part, now) it's that organic nature of this forum that makes it so great. Really tough problem to grow something cleanly without squelching it.
I was wondering if XDA could track a user's searches, or forums "read" for more than a minute, and after 30 or so, then stop the captchas. It seems like over the years it's folks who don't search & read (spammers or otherwise) that are the detraction. Maybe something like being in "reader" status as a step to becoming a new user & able to post at all.
1. I could have used it.
2. I'm putting this here, in the weird forum for this topic it's in, to see what people think. Wanting to have input as a developer is definitely a magnification of the problem. I'm glad it's here.
(ThinkPad Tablet:Tapatalk 2)
This idea came about from a discussion, in the old requests to mods & admins thread, about dealing with new users across this site.
When I say dealing with new users, I mean how you respond to either posts where the user clearly hasn't searched, the user has done something they shouldn't have done etc etc.
Some users will simply report the members post and leave it down to the moderators to deal with. Some will respond with sarcasm/trolling/flaming. Some will simply give the person the correct information and mention nothing about what they've done wrong and others, like me, may feel the need to rant away at some users.
With me, if someone has done something they shouldn't have done, I won't ever report it. I'll only report a post if it's something serious like racism or illegal content. I'll generally give tell the person nicely what it is they've done wrong and what they should've done instead.
Obviously, doing so won't always work and the new member will continue doing wrong. I'll then PM the member and explain it to them fully away from public view.
However, if I come across a situation where a user has done wrong, and after being told so numerous times even by different people, that's when I'll step in and rant at them. My rants are never harsh and can never be mistaken for such. I simply tell them what they've done wrong and what they should've done, but I write it in such a way where it makes it seem angrier and makes the message sink in.
I'm interested to know what others opinions are on this and how you personally deal with such situations.
I already know that if moderators drop by in here, they'll probably say it's best to use the report feature but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions anyway
what i try to do is tell them as nicely as i can (not really that nice, but i don't flame) where they're wrong. i do realize mods are busy and i avoid reporting until i've given the new member at least a warning. i do report immediately when the issue is serious (ie: spamming in dev threads, warez, etc.).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I try to point out their mistakes. Then I explain (nicely) that xxx shouldn't have done yyyy. It doesn't hurt to be well-mannered. The member usually realizes his/her mistake and (tries to at least) never repeats it, hopefully.
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
Great idea for a thread. I saw a very good post by FallenSpartan that really helped explain in the old mod requests thread, but I can't find it, must have been deleted. Anyways, the bottom line is, the person on the other side that computer could be anyone. For all you know, they could barely be able to speak English, or even have a mental disability . People need to be a little more understanding, trolling and flaming will only frustrate people and confuse them even more. A polite but pointed request to search next time and that the information is out there along with a link to it would be ideal in my opinion. The new users might not entirely grasp the concept of what's going on and how to easily search, and that information isn't exactly readily available. I know it is out there, but speaking from personal experience, I didn't go anywhere outside of my device's forum for quite some time after joining, not that I didn't know how to do those things. Point is, while the idea of searching and finding information for yourself is commonplace to you, it may not be to new users, and I don't think the importance of finding your own information is stressed enough for new members. While you may get angry and feel the need to rant and flame, it won't be nearly as effective at changing the way people act compared to a polite and firm request with the info attached, and possibly even what you did to find the information.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar -
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Actually you are right.. it helps them if we say what wrong they did and also give info what they asked in same post.. but I hope they won't feel that, even if he/she did made a wrong/ mistake they will get the quick info they need without any effort kinda feeling..
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
About your ranting...
Lol.. no way.. as far as I have seen your posts.. well your patience is pretty high.. ocassionally I have seen you going angry.. otherwise you are kind enough to give info and inform them of their mistakes.. well that's my observation.. excluding your device forum though
Sent from the MUST have app!
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old. So even if noob posts a warez content i never flame or troll him. Yeah, i do wanna give him a scolding but i don't. I'm gonna simply report it. Yes, i do sometimes post a reply or give him a PM, requesting him to remove the content with a link to the rules.
If a user dosen't search :-
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
If someone (racially) discriminates another user, i simply report him/her. Flaming him with sarcastic remarks might earn me a few thanks, (maybe) suppress the guy down, but it still isn't good for two reasons - one, as it's against the rules, two, as it proves that you're not a bit different from the user.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
How I respond depends on a new users thread, if it's to ask something particular then I'll either not reply or provide a link that's related or helps directly, if it's a new thread asking "how to root", how to unlock the boot loader", "how to install this ROM", "what's the best ROM" (there's at least 20+ threads asking that or similar in the Arc section in the last month or two) or asking about something in an existing thread that they could have just asked their question in, then I tend to be a bit more, how shall I say this, sarcastically direct :silly:, which some People take on the chin, and if they get it then I'll try to be more helpful, but you get the odd one or two who take umbrage then want to argue, needless to say I don't help that kind of user.
People joining here should be of a certain aptitude to begin imo and willing to learn, I'm much more inclined to help a user who has shown a bit of initiative but a lot are just sheer lazy and the amount of things that get asked that could be answered in the stickys amazes me.
But then you still get senior members who act like they've never been here before also, so I'm the same with them too. :angel:
KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
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Your ranting works. That's because you've already told them what they're screwing up multiple times and just need to get it into their heads that they can't keep doing whatever they're doing. Ranting without giving any reasoning or advice isn't so effective.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
I mention what they did wrong and just report it or send a pm to a moderator...Don't like making the situation worse
I got transformed into a potato while writing this post..
Well, I always try to understand the situation of the user, I mean on the SGSII forums,for example, I've recognize some users that always post questions instead of search even if the answer it's on the previous page, to them, I ask nicely to search but also I remember that me or some other user told him yet that please follow the rules and search before of post.
In the case of the total newbie users, mostly, I guide them to the thread, post or forum that they need but also, I mention that the rules are clear and need start to search before.
Sometimes I do the recomendation of put (in the next post that they do) where they search or how, if they do it yet, in that way we can give a better help (maybe it's not searching by the right terms or something like that)
I'm totally hate the flame to an user, when I see a post that could be the probably cause of a flame war I report it ASAP. And also, when I see someone flaming I ask nicely to stop because it's against the rules.
Sent from Nyarlathothep's SGSII..."Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
When I first started, I advised them on the said thread itself, giving as much help as I could. I would wait for a response before PM-ing him/her about what they did and how to avoid getting into more trouble. Along the way, I realised that the more I tried to be nice to them, the more they would just step on me and act as if nothing has happened. The final straw was when this one guy, started hurling abuse at me for pointing out his mistake, vandalised my ROM thread and IRC channel. Soon after more and more hate PM's started to arise. Now I don't bother with wrong do-ers. I find them guilty, I report them. If it get's out of hand, I'll give a sarcastic yet hard hitting post that he/she will never forget. I know it's wrong and some of them will hate me till the rest of their days, but I find monkeys like these only listen to a nice warm infraction instead of kind words. Now I just focus on bug related problems in my forum. Common courtesy is eroding in new users everywhere. Sorry, but this is what more than a year in XDA has made me into . No, I will not change my ways
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
KidCarter93 said:
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
anasdcool71 said:
I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
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I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
And it seemed to work, that bump.
On topic:
Simply abide the rules. If you see someone breaking the rules (e.g. posting warez, flaming, spamming, etc) report it, using the "!" button on the post. The report will be picked up by a moderator and will be registered, in case we need to review afterwards. Of course, if it's a minor offence, a PM to a mod is ok too.
But how to deal with new users who just ask alot of questions and don't know our "netiquette"?
Try a calm approach and tell them to use the Search function ALOT.
Just remember one thing and live by it: We all were newbs at one time.
Good to see this discussion, shows people care.
Big multiquote coming in 3, 2, 1....
nitubhaskar said:
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
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Using common courtesy will go leaps and bounds to remedy the situation. People sometimes do need a not-so-gentle nudging on how things work, but also a simple Please and Thanks can go much further. Otherwise if you flame them for posting something that has been asked just a few pages back, this place can get the mob mentality and all of a sudden, that one comment has turned into 4 pages of dribble that usually has to be cleaned by us and sometimes results in infractions for 1 or more members. Nobody wants that, right?
****The one thing that everyone should do is put on their way-back-hats and remember is when they were first tinkering with their phone and messed something up. Do you remember that Panic Mode your were in? :crying: Palms all sweaty, reading 5-6-7 pages at a time. Thinking that you just bricked your $600usd device. It sucks big time. I've been there many times (long ago )
nitubhaskar said:
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
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We generally try to leave a message as to why a thread was closed or moved. It isn't really a rule but again more of a common courtesy.
Also, The-Captain That guy is a class act. Nice, friendly and efficient. :good::good::good:
anasdcool71 said:
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old.
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
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Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se. But Rule #10 does say,
10. Help others if you can
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
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******
Giving a link is great and I do it all the time. But where does that cross the line of you doing their searching for them. I find if it is obscure enough, i will give a link, but the Department of Redundancy Department questions don't get such treatment, if you know what I mean.
loneagl said:
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
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I have done this more often than not. A simple picture can change the whole attitude of the thread. But not some stupid meme that has a personal attack or durogotory in any manner. I have one picture of a kid sticking a butter knife into a wall outlet and it say "nOOb" on it. Something as simple as that can change the tone and the OP wil make light of it and figure out where he went wrong. Sometimes not though and I have had it backfire on me a few times as well. But then in my next post, I would gently explain why I posted a picture and then guide them in the right direction. Some people tend to remember the visual, so the next time they want to start a thread, they may in-fact remember my picture and not the 4 pages of flaming they received.
KidCarter93 said:
I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
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Now you have an SM and FSM.
Edit::: One thing that I forgot to mention was the shear numbers we have here. At any given time there are between 35 & 50k users online. That's huge. If you Google anything about mobile/tablets, XDA is almost always at the top and at the very least top 5. That is some tough numbers we're dealing with.
That's really a big multi-quote! And quite a big explanation!!
||I'm just a PM away for help||
---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------
Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se.
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I suppose it is under rule #2.5. And also under rule #10, as you stated.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
You know, newbies (like I myself am quite often) who ask dumb questions that can be easily answered with a five second google search.
Sometimes we get confused and ask questions that should be easily answered.
Sometimes we're just lazy or frustrated and ask instead of search.
Sometimes we're on our phones and searching is a PITA compared to just asking.
I get a little "short" with these questions, even though I too behave like a newb sometimes.
I try to be patient, but sometimes I come across as sarcastic in my replies.
I guess I have a low patience level then. I need to be better with my replies.
What about you?
Let's try to keep this conversation as constructive/friendly as possible. :good:
Meh, I have patience. But on this site, there's to many chiefs and not enough indians. I'm so sick and tired of people with responses like "use the search bar man" or "why don't you read the thread" those answers are just as dumb as the dumb questions and also "spam" dev threads.
I've always had the mentality that there's no such thing as a stupid question.
People have always and always will ask questions without doing searches....it will never change.
So don't be an ass when you see "stupid questions" its not hurting you in any way and just help the damn people.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
I guess I'm torn. I'm a new who knows nothing about code or programing but I also realize that its a dev site. The extra noobs here help spread the devs work to more people than they would have had use their work before. The easy to find solutions questions will happen.
I realize the dumb questions happen but I do my best to realize if someone tried sincerely to find a solution.
Zelendel's off quoted post makes sense when it comes to how we are viewed when we need help.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
I try to help to the best of my ability with as much patience as possible. However, if I search and find it within seconds, I may come off as a little rude, and usually start the post with "please remember to use the search bar in the future. I found the answer within seconds....." and then below that I answer their questions. =p
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
questions
I understand that XDA is primarily intended as a development site, but I think things often get taken too far. I have been on XDA for about 3 years since before rooting my first Android phone. This, in fact, is about my fourth post. I am still locked out from posting in the Development forums. I do read several almost daily.
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.
I don't have any tolerance..
This is a DO AT YOUR OWN RISK website
A DEVELOPMENT website.
Its OK to be informative when the other person knows exactly what they are doing.
But to walk somebody every step of the way in my point of view its unnecessary. Devs don't have any responsibility over what happens to your phone. Nor do they need to do everything possible to make your phone work. I can cook a ROM and post it in the dev thread and say "absolutely nothing works but phone calls." I have no obligation to fix anything or make anything happen. Its a piece of work I chose to develop and share with other who are experienced and know what they are doing. Most problems, I'd say 90% of them, from a "stable" ROM come from the users end. Its is a persons duty as an individual to know what you got yourself into and to figure out a way to fix it. A lot of people still don't comprehend that.
I also have no tolerance into trying to turn XDA into a "social network" If you keep in touch with other members here outside of XDA then that's cool, but this needs to stay a development site...
I hate seeing the whole "I flashed this now my phone isn't working." My answer is always the same "Good, that way you learn." We all don't use the search bar or bother to use Google. Its a bad habit, specially on this site, but we all do it. But reading an OP should be the least thing anyone should do.. Most questions that are being asked are answered in the OP. And if you don't have the time to read a couple pages into a ROM thread, you shouldn't be flashing or messing with anything at all.
Once again I'll say, this is a do at your own risk. Its exactly why you get disclaimers in the OP of a rom.No one is going to hold your hand when you brick your phone.
Read read read and if you question yourself about modifying your phone, don't do it lol phones come with an already stable firmware on them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Rick-SG3 said:
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.
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The devs on here DO NOT have an obligation to anyone. Many build a rom for their own use and choose to share it. Others are out to achieve the perfect rom for their own use. For this reason some entertain problems while others will not. They do not have to help you if they choose not to. Many times, the question or problem presented has been asked and answered more than once, but rather than take the time to do a search and read a little, people want to have the answer handed to them. Welcome to a place where each individual is responsible for their own actions!
For the reason of questions, that is why XDA created Q&A. The developer threads are for developing and feedback (which is at the OP's discretion to act upon), not to answer questions you have. As far as overwhelming, this is why each section in XDA has the ability to do a search within...so you can narrow down the options.