Related
This is for discussion about the recent news that we'll soon be disallowing posts to development forums for new users with 10 posts or less in an attempt to cut down on junk posts.
I believe is a good new way of lowering down the crap-posts
What else a normal member can do to help?
- Report any problematic post by using the "report" button
- Help to improve and maintain a friendly ambiance
Thanks!
>25 would be better.
It sounds very very good. I'd like to suggest a little thing:
is it possible to ban thread with "HELP me please" title?
This type of title is common and doesn't help to focus the problem.
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Daniel, I totally agree with you. These are very valid points. Many people lurk here, mainly because they don't want to look stupid when they ask questions - and then, when they get serious after gaining knowledge here, they try something and they can't post? That isn't right.
The biggest issue here at XDA is what I mentioned above - people are hesitant to post because of the reaction they frequently get - on the flip side, those that do post in the proper areas for questions and answers are lucky if they get answers sometimes, I've had questions go unanswered, when I posted in what I thought was the proper forum (never in the ROM development forums). So what I think you really need to do is to come up with a good support forum for custom ROMs, and have knowledgable people read and help out in there - no matter how 'dumb' the question is in their eyes. From my experience, the only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask. Will that 'cut down' on the 'dumb' questions? Yes, in the ROM development forums it will - only if they're answered elsewhere, however.
You have to remember, Android doesn't come naturally to everyone, some come from other 'worlds' where they know what they're doing, then they're tossed into the thick of it when they try to make the switch (been there, done that). Are there people who really shouldn't be messing with their phones? Of course there are. Is it XDA's job to let them know they're too dumb to be messing? Or is it a better plan to help those people learn? I've always found the latter to be a better plan.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
All I can say is about friken time! I have been discussing this rule with a number of mods for a long long time now and frankly I still think 10 is too low, but its a great start and should cut a lot of the rubbish or at least make some people think twice about where they are posting their questions.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with spock ("Live long and prosper"). For newbies, which I may still be considered, searching the forums is daunting. For example, I have an HD2. I was running Android off of SD for a few months, then just last week took the plunge to NAND. You guys are really making progress on cleaning up the forum structure, because at least now in the HD2 section there are different "development" sections for NAND and SD, etc. BUT, when you are searching for the perfect ROM, it is very confusing with all of the codes in the ROM names. It took me 5 different tries between NAND roms and CWR roms (using clockwork recovery, I'm not THAT DUMB) to finally get one to boot up. I was sweating for a bit!!!
Plus, when you use the search function in the forums, the results very rarely seem to match my search. I understand the experts' frustrations when a newb asks a question or needs help with something that's already been covered, but I have searched numerous times looking for help with bluetooth on a rom, or music skipping, or whatever. Sometimes, I'll take 45 minutes reading through the search results and will realize that none of them are even touching on the subject I was searching for.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for all that the XDA team does. I visit this site daily, and follow the news with RSS on the Google Reader. I love it. But, since you're asking for suggestions, there you are.
;-)
It's a shame that you guys need to enforce this kind of rule but we really do need something to keep this forum in control.
Good job.
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Fair play on attempting something. This is one of a few large community sites I frequent and they all suffer from the problems you describe. Unfortunately no-one has the answer and it is a case of trail and error to find what works.
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
egzthunder1 said:
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post<>opening a new thread.
Let me phrase this:
1. I have been reading the forum for 1-2 weeks.
2. Then I couldn't find the answer and I have opened an account.
3. I want to post a question to the maker of the custom rom.
4. I can't do this!
5. I will post 10 idiotic comments somewhere else to get my right.
Is this what you want? I (you can see all my posts) have never spammed or asked stupid stuff anywhere but a number of posts should be a sign of my maturity? Posting 10 Post gives you little to no sign if the user has and knows how to use search and stay still untill he has read at least 1000 posts!
This is what you should be aiming for.
Just because you can't measure it better doesn't make it valid. It is like giving you no mortgage loan because in your neighbourhood there were 5% not paying it back in time.
egzthunder1 said:
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with my remarks concerning the XDA developer forums?
I do agree with everything you said but "testing" especially means getting feedback from users that can't tell you anymore if "it worked".
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then make inexperienced users stop "opening new threads" instead of "posting answers/making remarks to current threads".
Naren Raj said:
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing, and probably where lots of people are missing the point here. It isn't a matter of stupid posts. It is a matter of stupid posts in the wrong places. No one is telling you that you cannot ask for help. What we are saying is that, if all search efforts fail, please post in the right place....
seroaddict said:
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...
My advice to all ROM devs would be to make their own thread in Q&A or general, called [SUPPORT] ROM NAME HERE Support Thread - Latest Version 1.2.3
In there, all users could post, regardless of number of posts. The first post would link to the main ROM, and perhaps contain a FAQ.
In the ROM release in development, have a large link to the Q&A thread at the start and end of the post. That way, those reporting bugs and helping with patches/fixes can post in the development thread, and those needing help can post in the Q&A thread.
Just encourage devs to do something like this
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
I mean something has to be done. But being new to all this rooting, S-OFF etc kind of thing I do consider myself at least somewhat of a greenhorn . I do however try to keep my questions relevant to the topic and try finding the proper topic before placing a question.
But I am also struggling with actually get a proper answer, or an answer at all to some of my questions, making it hard for a new guy (or girl) to transend from being a greenie to actually become more and more knowledgeable over time. I mean if people dont share their knowledge and or their solutions then how are we all to benifit from them.
I do however admit that some form of moderation needs to find place, considering that some of the guides are actually more or less straight forward and quite frankly. If people can't follow a single straight forward guide then perhaps rooting, modding etc is not for them
thefinancemaster said:
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears to the left of the Quote button.
But IIRC it appears only after 5 posts, as we would have issues with new accounts being made solely to thank their "owner".
You're not far off the thanks button appearing.
I would screenie it, but there's little point. It's to the left of "Edit" for me ("Quote" for you I think as you won't see edit buttons everywhere)
This is your site and your rules. The only question is, that a person like me who has been a member for a short time, but been runing modded rom's for about 5 months (thanks to this site) can't post a question if I did have one. This is my second post, and the first one was to answer a question, I have found everything I needed and every question I had answered by way of reading posts. But if I do have a question I can't ask it because I have not posted alot of BS to get my post count up.
Let me start by saying that this is just a moan thread, and I don't ask or expect that anything comes from it other than me getting something off my chest and seeing what others think.
I'm a very regular reader and contributor in the HD2 forum, as I have been for over a year now. I like the fact that it's such a busy forum as this obviously means we have a larger resource pool and get answers to issues a lot quicker than a more sparsely populated forum. There is, however, a down-side to this as well. More people does mean more help, but it also means more idiots.
Unfortunately, there's a growing gang of members in the HD2 forum that seem to thrive on posts such as...
"Search for the answer, *****"
or...
"Are you a total retard?"
Now I know that some people ask what a lot of us feel are dumb questions, and a LOT of people are guilty of posting questions without searching thoroughly first, therefore repeating threads, but it seems to be becoming a sport to deal with them with stronger and stronger animosity.
I personally have been guilty of posting "This is the wrong forum" or "This has been answered - please search", but the recent number of similar posts has made me rethink the situation.
First of all, just insulting someone is point-blank out-of-order, and I usually tend to report such posts and hope the mods agree and deal with the individual in question. So that's that done. Now we're left with the "already answered" posts.
This is all hypothetical, so don't do the following search and tell me I was wrong, okay
Say I searched for "bluetooth android not working" and didn't find anything that suited my situation and decided to open a thread. I start one called "bluetooth android not working" and explain my problem. UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answer like a million times. Use the search function"
Now let's go 2 weeks into the future when someone else has the exact same problem. They type into the search "bluetooth android not working" and they find my thread. "Great!" they think, till they read the thread. It's of no use to them whatsoever. So they start a new thread. Guess what - UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answered a million times! I'm getting sick of telling people to search!!!"
This happens every 2 weeks, with different users having the same problems and not finding a solution, therefore posting a new thread.
Okay. Here I have to say that none of the above users searched well enough - that is a valid point, and cannot be changed. By the time they start a new thread it's too late to simply tell them this.
But now, 6 months down the line, we have 12 threads that are titled "bluetooth android not working", and not one of them has an actual answer in it. By this point, the forum is becoming pretty pointless.
All it would take is for Mr.Genius-at-searching UserXXX to have searched, as he claims is easy to do, find a link and then post whatever he wants, with the link at the end of it...
"Here's a link, you **** tard. Learn to search. I can do it, so I have the right to tell you to do it. Want proof I can search? Here it is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/noonardfoundananswer.php"
Basically, people giving it "do a search if you want answers" should help out new users in doing so. Do a search and maybe tell them what your search criteria was. Maybe they didn't know what NAND was when they were asking about flashing Android to replace WM6.5. Maybe they misspelt "blootueth". They need help, not an arrogant waste of space that generates just as much garbage post in the forum, but with an added side-dish of anger.
Finally, I know that we shouldn't spoon-feed people, as they will never learn to do things themselves. What I am suggesting is that if someone knows how to do something and they find someone who clearly doesn't, then they should help them, rather than just act like an idiot.
Phew. Rant over
Edit: Incidentally, apologies to those who've pointed out that it's not just the HD2 forums that are like this. I didn't mean to imply that they're the only place it happens. I just can't talk from experience for any of the other forums.
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments Dave. Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
I really do not mind helping people but what I cant stand is lazyness. Its one thing been new to teh subject and not knowing something and then asking for help but its another to simply not even bother checking a forum stickies or at least doing a simple search before creating a topic that has already been created.
On some occasions its because the subject is a hard one to search and filter out but on allot of occasions you know its simply because they have not bothered and thought they would just create a topic and let other people do work for them, That is what I cant stand.
Although I have stopped been really abrupt I will still not answer these people but instead choose to make sure they are aware that its not on.
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Completely agree with what the OP is trying to say.
TheATHEiST said:
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are the from people you helped, or from people who liked your quips? (j/k)
TheATHEiST said:
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the point John is making, is that the unhelpful replies limit users ability to search. For example, searching for "Help Flashing Evo" will find threads with the answer "Use Search", (recursion ) hence annoying the user and causing them to post instead of carrying on.
Users who don't bother reading/searching are (and probably always will be) a problem, hence svetius's change requiring 10 post to use Development forums; we need to find more efficient ways to help them
Dave
thank you very much!!! i have been thinking about this topic a long by myself, but i didnt dare to mention it with my low post counter.
I got my HD2 only 1 month ago and its my first WM device. I am very good with all technical devices, but it was still very hard for me to find the right answers.
As i just bricked my nokia phone during an update i wanted to make sure to not brick my HD2..
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
oida_oida said:
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guides and the wikis + plethora of resources are already in place especially for establishes devices like the Leo. The only issues is the "newer" crowd is lazy and does not search and hence hundreds of threads asking questions to which answers have already been mentioned sometime somewhere on the forum. That's not the only issue- the problem is that these newer people won't be patient or even post in the correct place.
For eg. I have seen threads about Android development being posted in Win D&H.
We have to live & deal with it, it's a side effect of growth and progress.
JM2C's.
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity of late in all forums - not just HD2. I'm not certain as to why this is, all I do know is that I find unacceptable. As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions.
My observations:
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. As such, I expect a certain degree of maturity and professionalism from all members during their "stay" on this forum.
Responses that provide helpful and constructive information as opposed to "use the search", "try Google", "it's broken", "fix it", etc. help guide the thread back to topic. Here's a few examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9929554&postcount=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10749020&postcount=7
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10097254&postcount=22
There is absolutely no reason to respond in a rude tone, make someone feel stupid, or disrespect a member trying to offer something back to the community ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose. Members are never forced to frequent a thread on this forum and as previously stated, members should choose to move on instead of posting inflammatory comments.
Shortly after the launch of a well advertised mobile device, there is an influx of new members. Most all carriers and device manufacturers send their customers to XDA for technical assistance. Place a call to your carrier technical support department, it won't take long before the support representative instructs you to: "check out XDA, they have tons of information on how to fix that ...".
Most of newcomers who frequent the site are under the misconception that XDA is an extension of their carrier technical support department. This becomes apparent when I read posts complaining about issues with features or demanding an answer to their problem. As most of these newcomers are less technical, they lack the expertise required to assess the problem and determine the correct terminology to use in a search.
The current consumer model is not conducive to holding carrier and device manufacturers accountable. The current marketing paradigm is about convenience and how the one device that "does it all" is here. Most consumers buy into the paradigm and spend little to no time researching before the purchase. Once the device is purchased and fails to meet expectations, they simply go out and purchase something else.
vBulletin Search is horrible and unless one has a PhD in XDA Google Search, the likelihood of finding a meaningful answer in a billion threads is well ... challenging at best.
There are other observations that I have made; but the ones above are IMHO, some of the key issues and why I prefer to take a less aggressive approach when moderating newcomer posts.
Regards,
Those observations are very accurate and sums up the issue well, Hilaireg.
Thanks to all for giving your two cents on this rather important issue. The problems that we currently face are a product of people not having a sense of community. As hilaireg stated, many come here for a "quick fix" simply because the CSR at their company had no idea what to do and decided to direct you here to see if maybe you could fix the issue yourself.
Admittedly, there are search engines that are somewhat better than vB's, but the point that the OP is making is 100% dead on target. By playing "smarta$$" and replying "search, you n00b" instead of providing any meaningful reply will do nothing else than dilute the results of your search. Having said this, people complaining that the search does not work, 8 times out of 10, are expecting the right answer to pop up in the first result from the thread, and will probably give up if by the second or third link they have not found anything. Patience is a virtue, and people looking for knowledge should expect for this to come at the price of a little effort.
I went from a $10 clamshell dumdum phone for 6 years, whambang straght into my Leo. I am over 36 & under 38 years old.
It took me 3 months of fumbling around getting peeved over constant resetting and crashes.
Not once did I bother anyone here with a question that with a bit of hands on do-it-yourself would eventually learn on my own.
However, I had Tmo tech. on speed dial...
I am not new to the forum game though...check my thread "Throttled". lol.
anywho, my phone will remain stock with tweaks, skins, and sweet theme action.
This is an awesome piece of awesome, but NOT for the severely impatient or timid.
Thank you XDA for doing the absolute maximum in making my leo purrrr!!!!
and moan threads are for sissies btw...lol.
@ hilaireg & egzthunder1
I understand and agree to some extent your points but the fact of the matter is that something really needs to be done to halt or slow down the amount of dupe posts or other that are polluting/diluting the forum.
I'm going to be honest I dont really have any problems using vB search and usally find the info I need. PLUS much rather find the info myself because it also makes me learn other stuff in process that I may need in future that I wouldnt usually learn if I had just gone and asked somebody for specific info.
Here are the steps I take to find the relevant info...
Check stickies
Check latest topics
Use search function (topic titles)
Use search function (topic content)
Then if I dont find any info I want I begin to start a new thread and take note of the "similar threads" function before posting. If all else fails I use google.
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
I really think that we need to have a 100 post limit on the dev section this will reduce by allot the amount of spam we get, maybe not specifically for replying to topics but certainly for creating them. And also maybe a FAQ sticky in each Q&A forum with links to most asked ones.
TheATHEiST said:
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
There are solutions:
1) the OPs start updating their original posts with solutions to outstanding problems. The search engine is only as good as the queries being put into it, and as more "SEARCH DA TRED NEB3!!!" responses fill the thread, that makes actually finding the solution all the more difficult.
2) Regulars stop flaming the newbies. When I first started posting here I got a number of @ss**** responses to reasonable questions. If regulars behave like that, what type of newbs do you think you're attracting?
Lets not make this a 'he said/she said' or a pointing-fingers thread.
For a solution to the problem at hand, when we see such behavior, we can easily rectify it - as the OP stated - by posting the answer to questions instead of telling the person to search for the answer.
Now this does also bring a 'double-edge' scenario: This may give the n00bs the idea that it is okay to post a question without searching. But this is already happening.
So if we at least cut the amount of posts about the same topic down, there will be less of what bothers the senior members. And we won't have to suggest 'Search the forums for the answer.'
As a possible-soon-to-be-moderator of the Herald forums, I promise to do this myself. Hopefully, we can all agree to do the same as Senior Members of this community. I also don't expect anyone who has less than a hundred posts to do this, but, hopefully a trend will catch on.
apallohadas said:
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey I didnt say they was the only problem, hence "99%".
If we keep re-iterating the same answers we are just going round in circles. The ONLY way to solve this is to somehow halt/slow them from asking the same repeat questions in first place, not just keep providing the answers every time they decide to be lazy and ask the same question and not just that they also ask them by creating a topic in the wrong places.
It's not just the HD2 forum, it's the same in the Desire one too (and yes, I'm guilty of a bit of flaming but some people just ask EXTREMELY dumb questions and even when you answer continue to ignore you so they deserve it)
Rule 1 of the forum is to search and for those who haven't even done that they deserve it too. But to those who say they've actually tried and not found anything I'll try and be helpful
These people just need to learn the proper way to ask a question. If you want a response from the power-hungry people who reply with insults, you must phrase it properly.
Instead of saying: "How do you get bluetooth working in Android NAND?"
They need to say: "Android on the HD2 SUCKS because bluetooth doesn't work right!"
What you will then see is these jerks flocking to prove the OP wrong, all while answering his question. 90% of the time, it works every time.
But if we do keep reiterating the answers to properly asked questions, that makes the search engine more useful for those that do use it. The answer doesn't get buried in 'you suk n00b' responses.
If a person feels they can't respond without insults, then they should have the self control not to respond right?
IMO the ones with knowledge need self control and should control their temper; and be helping ( luckily for us most are ).
And the n00bs need to know the forum decorum and manners better.
And the minimum posts requirement to post in dev. section is a small but very important step in the right direction, I recall when I signed up on XDA for months I was just reading and posting. And posted only in the Q&A threads or threads related to fashing/ROMs ( when I needed help with that); but these days the people won't have the patience to do that.
Either we need to vomit it out on them or somehow teach them the old school method of search + posting on right threads/forums.
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can pm me I will try to help you with your phone.. Ok
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
KidCarter93 said:
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
ronnie498 said:
If you can pm me I will try to you with your phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you kind sir, I will indeed take you up on that when i have the time - currently moving the next few days.
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can totally understand that, but we were all noobs at one point or another. Even now, I have noob moments from time to time.
But a lot of people around XDA will get annoyed by new users for the simple fact that the majority of the time, they won't search for an answer. They'll simply post a thread wherever they can and expect an answer to be handed to them.
Hence why we suggest that people spend the time to read the stickied threads in the 'About xda', 'General', and their device specific forums.
These stickies will include most of the information a user may need about there device or about XDA in general.
If after reading them and searching, if an answer has still not been found then create a thread and let people know exactly what you've done to find an answer. If other users can tell you actually have searched, then they'll be more willing to help you.
If any of that seemed condescending, I apologize, but I'm not aware of what knowledge you have regarding these forums.
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Are you serious you posted a question, got smart with the first person who responded and now your complaining none will help. Sorry to not be constructive help but being the "noob" you say you are, I would drop the attitude if you expect much help in the future. Most will tell you to read first because all your questions have been asked and answered before. Your device is not new and xda has a wealth of information on it. All you have to do is your homework and read.
my advise to you is to lose the attitude, be patient and
read, read, read
Edit.
I can only assume on the actual model of your gs2 because of lack of info but
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22904907 this only took a few seconds to find
Tapped from my e4gt blazing with the tweaked blu kuban V0.1.3
After reading the post you made to trigger this, it appears to me that you expected XDA to work like an IRC channel where you would essentially be having a near real time conversation with a support tech. As you are no doubt aware now, it doesn't work like that. XDA members are spread around the world and it may take a few hours for someone to reply. It is best to give all important details to get the best answers.
BTW, if you are going to "quote" someone as you did in the first post, it is advisable to put exactly what they did say within the quotes rather than paraphrase as you did.
"nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with"
does not equal
"No body will reply if you dont say what you want htere are a billion things you can do so tell what the problem is"
See the difference?
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
anasdcool71 said:
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
I don't see an issue.
Local knowledge of the forum by reading would show you need to know more about the phone than just the software version.
Reading past examples would probably show this.
Searching will also usually reveal a working root method stickied on the development forum
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, you got what was coming to you and frankly you deserved it. Judging by the second quote here I can tell that you really don't understand the purpose of XDA and as such losing you really won't be a loss. You seem also to be a generally unpleasant person by the way you intentionally misquoted the people in your thread, and the fact that you expected this to be some sort of help service. You didn't search before posting (I'm sure there are thousands of guides out there) and you definitely didn't provide enough information. You say 'I need help with rooting' - well what specific part of the process? And if you just want a guide, then why not follow an already existing one? If you're following an already existing guide and the OP is open to questions, why not just ask there rather than creating a new thread? One more thing you didn't account for before replying like a douche to the person who answered to is the fact that he's from Ghana and the likelihood is that English is not his primary language. Google translate never works well.
One way i can understand the OP's frustration with the way some members respond to newcomers. But you will not win any sympathy with the way you have responded, specially with the wording in this thread regarding how you expect XDA to serve you. I am all for helping people and getting them started in there android journey. But at the same time i am not happy to help someone only for them to keep asking constant questions specially after i helped them out and pointing them to were to read.
and another thing. rather than complaining in a thread were basically you are using foul language you could of just reported any issues you faced.
anyways hope you change your mind about XDA and give this place a chance cause once you get started you will get addicted to it. all the best
and no offense checking your date since you started here it seems that you have been here a while. so for someone who has been here a while but not posted much i would still have expected you to realize by now how XDA works....anyways if you need any hand with anything just let me know via PM and i see if i can help you out with any issues you may have
I agree with the others. You really overreacted and seem to have an attitude. There was nothing wrong with the post your linked to and like someone else said, it was wrong to paraphrase it the way you did. It was not the least bit harsh. The other day in the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 section someone told me to "shut up and f*** off". Now that's harsh. The response you got? Not at all. He was trying to tell you you need to provide more details that's all.
Alright, i am one of those people that seem to get on your nerves.
I'll tell you why, because there is a big and clear search button on your face in every page, you learned about it when registering and watching the registration video, and still refused to use it.
You asked a question that 2 million people asked before you, and still want members to waste their time and answer you AGAIN.
Use the search button = be happy.
Until then, don't expect everyone to be nice.
G L Reply
You never know. Each forum has its own set of good members, bad members, and downright annoying ones. If your device's forum has an excess of "downright annoying", there's not a whole lot you can do beside a) using a different website or b) crossing your fingers that you'll never have device specific questions.
It almost creates a whole new dimension on "device buying factors" :laugh:. You might wind up with a device whose XDA DEVELOPERS subforum is full of jerks. Thankfully, I got my questions answered before they tried to ban my account because they didn't like me, lol.
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's not a whole lot of advice I can give you on this other than "Good Luck".
- 2B
Unfortunately on the Internets, people can be jerks. The best thin you can do is ignore trolls and try to do as much research on your own as you can so that you sound like you've tried before asking for help. Nothing seems to bate a troll more than asking (what they consider to be) stupid/noob questions. I'm not saying it's right, just saying you can help avoid it yourself since you can't control other people.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but flaming the board to others essentially badmouths an entire community based on a small group's actions.
To the OP I understand completely and like someone said, people normally will live in different time zones. With that said it will usually take hours to respond with a answer..
For my nexus root, I asked questions before hand to Tiny* a great kernel dev who helped the droid incredible community. He had a nexus. Although his into was vague I went to the nexus forums and went to the toolkit/root area "Mskip" and asked some questions, they weren't actually answered and left me with the reaction as "okay, this community is actually stuck up".
So then from there I searched various YouTube videos and eventually found out using a toolkit is bad, I was about to use it. So I researched some more and eventually found a steady great adb guide.
I rooted without hassle and astonished after rooting and seeing some comments to others wanting to root. J
Just answer his question and don't be a jerk.. remember you were once in his shoes at one time. Each person wanting root I recommend adb root and give them the guide.
There is no reason to act snotty to others wanting help.
There is even a better way to help others "Team viewer" as this will help anyone not familiar with rooting or just don't know what to do.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Nope. Haven't Seen That.
mf2112 said:
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
khruska said:
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
You can't be as noob as i was when i first joined. I knew literally nothing about android. Big diff from some of the noobs now? I joined xda to LEARN. Now i at least know java (which is a start). I can't make a rom from source (yet) but i'm getting there (still a long way though). Problem is a lot of new members join to ask questions that's been answered a dozen times before... and that's sad.
I do try to help out when i can, but lately i find myself reporting threads than actually answering the op's questions...
It's really not that hard to search (unless you'e on the app - if you are then you're probably screwed ).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I'll get straight to the point.
The nature of our Development Forums on XDA have changed dramatically since the G1 days and unfortunatly its a change for the worst, its hitting in my opinion rock bottom with less and less people willing to contribute. Back when Android was born and XDA opened its doors to us G1 users we were all there for one reason. To LEARN!
The thirst for knowledge and understanding was exciting and thrilling, being the first to discover something new and letting it be free and available to all who wanted, to strive to break down the barriers that our providers put before us and set us all free! It was to be a complete geek and openly honest a complete rush for me and all of us.
Just writing about it sends a shiver down my spine I so enjoyed it all back then. But todays culture seems to be one of spoon feeding information to people who have no idea what they actually have in there hands, and to be frank would look at me cross eyed if I told them to use terminal emulator to enter a command! Now dont get me wrong I'm no linux expert I'm not even a beginner but I took time to learn terminal commands for Android to help further our community by not asking dumb questions and knowing what a search engine was!
So for my proposal and discussion as a community is.....
Should we allow the developers to HAVE the Developement forums?
We currently have General forums with support threads so basically if your not a developer you simply can't post in there. Lets give the devs somewhere they can talk with other devs and concentrate solely on development and not reading 15,000,000 pages of posts like 'The rom didn't work its rubbish' and replying back to all these people to try and gain some peace to work.
Well I have had my say and I look forward to some serious intelligent debate on this.
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
WCCobra said:
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy. Can you build a rom? Do you know your arse from your elbow? And have you heard of google?
If you answer Yes to all three you're probably a dev.
No seriously you are perfectly correct and I understand what you are saying but again why couldn't we have that same discussion/help/suggestion here? Its basically the same and the devs can check in whenever they like as they already have to in their development threads now. We have help threads here that are basically unused because they are cluttering up the devs thread instead. We need to look at encouranging devs to stay and this to me gives them that and a lot more would be achieved I feel.
Perhaps a way for devs to have a open or closed thread.
Like asylum rom. There is discussion thread and a development thread.
Maybe an option to allow only recognised developers or senior members in a thread.
I agree junior members (noobs) are a pain in the ass.
I tought myself mostly by reading threads and figuring things out.... Why can't they? I don't know... I try to play nice though sometimes the stupidity bassles me.
A blacklist option or a "kick ban from thread" option for the dev. If someone is anoying to other members or just clutters the thread this would be a nice implementation for a dev.
Send from my Omega/perseus powered SGN2
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
I'm no dev. I'm far from it. But I can totally agree with what you say about it being different from the g1 days. I too get a little... Choked up...
I didn't even know what adb ment, let alone how to work it. Took me hours just to figure out and set up.
After rooting and handling updates for all my buddies phones plus my own... I'm a little more comfy. But I can't build a ROM.
There definatley a problem with people not reading. I mean... "Does cam work on this ROM?" Its answered on every page. I've seen it answered 3 posts before the question was asked.
Xda-Etiquette got lost somewhere along the way. Some things are too advanced for new android users. If it was, I didn't touch. New members don't think like that.
Read read read. Post in general or q&a. Don't clutter up dev threads with "thanks" and "help... I brick!".
Learn what a brick is. Lol.You don't have to be the first with s-off when you don't even know what it means. Wait til it becomes easier. Don't lose a device cuz you want to be on the cutting edge but don't even know what fastboot means.
Bs in the other topics. When you click that "android development" button, keep your mouth shut and read. Nothing most of the xda users, myself included, can say would be productive and helpful to devs.
And to end... I still <3 xda.
Sent from my One S using xda app-developers app
DisruptiveMind said:
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again they can! They just do it in here instead when the devs need a laugh. All help and dumb questions can be answered here in the General Forum meaning people would actually be more likely to read at least something of the first post in the Development Forum because its not as daunting knowing there is another 100 pages of posts to read following it.
Did you remember to fastboot flash the boot.img?
Thx for this thread, it always helps to discuss issues if they occur. In any case there is no need for closed dev threads @ XDA, since this would lead to believe we are only developing for our own pleasure. Reality is we all enjoy to push the envelope and share it with other guys in the forum. We all need and want feedback, so it`s not a problem XDA can solve.
All we can do is try to educate users, that we are happy to help them as long as they try to search for answers first either in the thread, on XDA or Google. Users in dev thread need also understand the following:
All custom ROM`s have bugs (so do stock ROM`s)
Not all these bugs are ROM related, in many cases the problem sits in front of the device.
If it`s a real bug, just report it, but don`t be demanding. Most of us just publish stuff here for pure pleasure of sharing and cause we are proud, that we could enhance the user experience with new features.
Users really need to understand, that we don`t have an obligation to update stuff in a certain time frame. We do that in our free time and it`s just a hobby.
Users should especially behave in a friendly manner and be respectful with everyone in the threads.
So bottom line - don`t expect XDA to solve the issues, we as a community must learn to respect each other and understand there`s more important stuff in life then a phone.
Edit: Maybe except the new ONE :laugh::angel::silly:
Well again I find myself saying all that can be done here, I never once said I wanted the Development thread closing or to create a nature of 'building for themselves' we could all still have access and well would need it to download roms so I don't understand where you are coming from on that point. Why do we have a support thread in General if the support is offered in the roms thread?
And to be honest as we need to be I have seen you yourself getting annoyed by the questions that pop up time and time again as has many other devs leading to yet more and more posts about ego wars and the tiredness of answering the same thing again and again and again. Simply let that stuff stay in here otherwise not only is General but Q&A forums seem to be somewhat pointless as no matter how hard you try being nice about it users will never learn. A place where real Developers can go and know the community takes care of the 'silly' stuff, as a developer yourself I would assume you would appreciate not having to spend so much time reading all the pointless posts that appear. You say rightly that you do this as a hobby and in your free time so wouldn't it be better if you knew you had somewhere to get away from it so to speak and spend that time doing work on your rom/s?
The stupid questions are just plain laziness. I'm basically a noob, this is my first android phone and I just got it last October. I can't remember even asking any questions, maybe as couple, literally. I'm usually the one helping out people who have been using android longer than me. In October, I remember having to look up what a kernel even was. Lol. So, yeah, people just have you seriously just read more, but don't just follow steps, try to understand what you are actually doing. Just following steps, you won't learn nothing.
HTC_One_S | Xparent_ICS_Blue_Tapatalk 1.06_Hboot_Downgrade | Root_Box | Bubba_Kernel_2.8b | S-OFF
I don't think things will ever change. There are always going to be lazy, entitled noobs who want to be spoon fed. Changing that I think would be a losing battle. I'm not saying we should encourage them, but fighting and flaming simply won't ever change things. I think we should simply continue helping those who've shown they have no problem making the effort to help themselves and ignore the ones who want everything handed to them.