Develop Bugs

[REQ] We need a Fast Charge Battery Driver

Like most of the others in this section, I come from the WinMo world. I just got my OTA'd Evo and I have to say, the battery takes forever to charge. My Touch Pro2 & Touch Pro both have no2chem's fast charge battery driver(it makes it feel like they fully charge in 5 mins) and since we haven't seen him in a while I thought someone else might be able to develop one for our amazing Evo's!!
Please Help!! Thanks in advance!!

Can you provide more info on this? A full charge in 5 minutes sounds ridiculous but I won't out anything past XDA

TMartin03 said:
Like most of the others in this section, I come from the WinMo world. I just got my OTA'd Evo and I have to say, the battery takes forever to charge. My Touch Pro2 & Touch Pro both have no2chem's fast charge battery driver(it makes it feel like they fully charge in 5 mins) and since we haven't seen him in a while I thought someone else might be able to develop one for our amazing Evo's!!
Please Help!! Thanks in advance!!
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Click to collapse
Haha, I remember that WM driver..NueBattery (no2chem)..
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

this has been spoken of before on these forums... it might be in the works, but you are reffering to a fast charge via USB connection rather than wall connection. Wall connection is full speed, USB is throttled down to prevent damage to the USB port on the computer plugged in to.
the process is a great add if you use tether charge a lot, like I do. If I am constantly streaming online on my old winmo phone even with fast charge I would slowly deplete my battery while it was plugged in, I haven't used the EVO much for streaming but I would be afraid to see the results w/o fastcharge.

thats why you buy a couple extra batteries and a wall charger

TMartin03 said:
My Touch Pro2 & Touch Pro both have no2chem's fast charge !
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yea... same here.... i loved that ****

TMartin03 said:
My Touch Pro2 & Touch Pro both have no2chem's fast charge battery driver(it makes it feel like they fully charge in 5 mins) and since we haven't seen him in a while I thought someone else might be able to develop one for our amazing Evo's!!
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Wasn't No2chem female?
Edit: Never mind, I'm thinking of another Windows Mobile Dev.

mental26 said:
Wasn't No2chem female?
Edit: Never mind, I'm thinking of another Windows Mobile Dev.
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a FEMALE?! BlashpHEMOUS!

You stole Boo Boo's Name said:
thats why you buy a couple extra batteries and a wall charger
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This. Got a replacement battery and charger on ebay for under $10 shipped. Works out great. Just swap the generic out with the stock whenever my battery starts running low. The only time I ever plug in my phone to charge is at night.

Seriously - if somebody is requesting a valuable piece of development in a development forum, what value are you adding trying to sell him batteries!? Do you honestly think he's gonna be like, "Oh hey, yeah, you're right! Who needs a phone to charge fast when I can just carry around a pocket full of spare batteries and a charger! Why didn't I think of that?"

sopenco said:
Seriously - if somebody is requesting a valuable piece of development in a development forum, what value are you adding trying to sell him batteries!? Do you honestly think he's gonna be like, "Oh hey, yeah, you're right! Who needs a phone to charge fast when I can just carry around a pocket full of spare batteries and a charger! Why didn't I think of that?"
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Perhaps he didn't realize how inexpensively good-quality replacement batteries and chargers can be acquired. Also, a single battery inside a charger case isn't much larger than a wall charger + cable (which by your own assumption he must be carrying around in his pocket).
I understand what you're saying about it being a developer forum and all, but I don't see any harm in offering a feasible solution to a posed problem. I mean, look at Apple. They told people they had to buy a case or stop holding a phone with their left hands!

+1 for this

5 Minutes to charge and 10 minutes of use sounds about right for WiMo

I wish when connect to USB it would trickle charge. that way you don't the drop as soon as you disconnect the phone. so i guess i want to slow things down a bit but just when on USB.

This!
clayginn said:
5 Minutes to charge and 10 minutes of use sounds about right for WiMo
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Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

sopenco said:
"Oh hey, yeah, you're right! Who needs a phone to charge fast when I can just carry around a pocket full of spare batteries and a charger! Why didn't I think of that?"
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Hahahaha ha.

Yes, we need this for sure! Carrying around batteries is NOT the answer.

it wouldn't really charge in 5 minutes, but it would charge about as fast as plugging it into the wall.
and for the person mentioning the developer who was a girl, cmonex legend of hardspl!

+1 on the props to cmonex!

wastingoctober said:
Perhaps he didn't realize how inexpensively good-quality replacement batteries and chargers can be acquired. Also, a single battery inside a charger case isn't much larger than a wall charger + cable (which by your own assumption he must be carrying around in his pocket).
I understand what you're saying about it being a developer forum and all, but I don't see any harm in offering a feasible solution to a posed problem. I mean, look at Apple. They told people they had to buy a case or stop holding a phone with their left hands!
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this fast charge thing is NOT new to most of us that frequent XDA and other dev/mod forums (PPCGeeks)...and it is perfectly legit to put out a request for...
suggesting an extra battery is good and all...but not always feasible. Apple suggesting what they did was to redirect everyone's attention to THEIR lack of attention on a piece of supposedly high end hardware..that now seems to be flawed. OP has been around for sometime...and the extra battery thing is a good idea already...especially for noobs

[Q] NOT SEIDIO- 3500mAh battery + cover on Amazon- $23.99

3500mAh battery + cover- looks smoother than Seidio, but also looks like it could be cheaply made.
Check it out.
What do you think? Would you gamble on it? Why or why not?

i took the gamble, i'll let you know how it is in 2-6 business days

$19? Seems cheap...especially for an "extended" battery. Our 1900mAh battery as a replacement costs more than that, haha.

will this still fit in the lapdock?

Would probably fit in the lapdock if you took the back off
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

xandr115 said:
Would probably fit in the lapdock if you took the battery off
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fixed for ya

I ordered one from Gorilla Gadgets. I can easily use the phone HEAVILY (games, calls, texting, facebook, music, bluetooth always on) from 630am to 10pm without charging or it dying.

Just took the risk as well. Will report back on how it does. 2-6 business days!

Keep us posted guys. My gf is picking up the atrix so this would be a good accessory to pick up
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Im interested in seeing how this fits. Also how the battery life is with setcpu disabled under heavy use
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

I hope it's good but odds are it's crap like every other aftermarket battery.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

They took forever to ship it, but it's shipping now. Hope it gets here soon!

Well, came home to the package, and it does NOT fit in my phone. I don't know what else to do.

Sinful Animosity said:
Well, came home to the package, and it does NOT fit in my phone. I don't know what else to do.
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Geez man that really sucks. Thanks for letting us know tho.

I think I might not be trying hard enough to make it fit, but it just seems like it doesn't want to go in.

Hello, everyone. I received this battery a couple days ago. The battery doesn't just slip right in, you have to push really hard. Overall, the extra sign is not as bad as i thought. It actually blend in with the phone. I was using it heavily for 14 hours straight, when the phone said i have 1% left. I thought that the phone would shut off but it keep on going for another 3 hours. It probably can go on but im afraid it might ran out while im on the road. I recharge it and will continue to monitor it. The only problem i see is the battery indicator is not accurate. I hope that it will calibrate itself in a few more power cycle.

You had to push hard? I pushed super hard and I was afraid of breaking the phone. I'll give it another shot though!

Sinful Animosity said:
You had to push hard? I pushed super hard and I was afraid of breaking the phone. I'll give it another shot though!
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Yes, put the battery conductor side down first and push the rest of it down. It will work.

Sorry. I feel like an idiot for not being able to push a battery in. But when you put it in conductor side first, did the back of yours get stuck on the fingerprint scanner part?
I feel like I'm going to break the device if I push any harder.

Sinful Animosity said:
Sorry. I feel like an idiot for not being able to push a battery in. But when you put it in conductor side first, did the back of yours get stuck on the fingerprint scanner part?
I feel like I'm going to break the device if I push any harder.
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No, mines isn't stuck on the fingerprint part. I hope we got the same battery. I got mine from the link on the first page of this post.

Replacement battery

Anyone replace their battery yet? I bought my note 10 refurbed and never felt it had the power it should. Will last 3ish hours with light gaming and web surf. I've seen some replacements on amazon, just wanted to get some input.

monkey3ddd said:
Anyone replace their battery yet? I bought my note 10 refurbed and never felt it had the power it should. Will last 3ish hours with light gaming and web surf. I've seen some replacements on amazon, just wanted to get some input.
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I bought one from zwxj on Amazon a couple of weeks ago. 20 minute install. Very easy. There a a few youtube videos you can search for that show the entire process.
I'm getting about 8 hours or more of screen on time now.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

I bought one from new power 99, was getting 10% loss for every hour for the first few months but then it started to go alot faster. They have a 1 year garantee on there batteries so i just wrote them 2 days ago and explained what was happening and they sent me a replacement the day they got my email. It was a little more expensive but definitely worth it. They also told me to just keep the first battery. So i would definitely recommend them . They didn't argue or tell me I'm doing something wrong when I sent the email , they just shipped a new battery out. It comes with all the tools to take tablet apart and was very easy to do.

So my battery is fine except when playing games. It's drops insanely fast. I have a refurbished model and am thinking a new battery should do it. Anyone have that issue and a new battery take care of it?
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

My battery life is getting much worse, and the tablet is now 2 years old. Looks like time for a new battery here too...

Don't know if I need one yet. I know I leave it on the charger quite often and it seems to drain much faster under load than my refurbished nexus 7 2013, but standby time is much, much longer than my nexus 7. Disassembly also seems like a pain. I don't like that you have to pry on the screen

dougiefresh181 said:
Don't know if I need one yet. I know I leave it on the charger quite often and it seems to drain much faster under load than my refurbished nexus 7 2013, but standby time is much, much longer than my nexus 7. Disassembly also seems like a pain. I don't like that you have to pry on the screen
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Like the rest of you, I'm experiencing severe, and rapid drain from my battery. I just bought a brand new OEM battery for my tablet. Hasn't come yet, and I will let you know about any difficulties. YouTube videos make it look like a fairly easy job, and it doesn't look like there's much pressure on the screen while you do it. By the way, just for giggles I decided to check how difficult it would be to access the battery. Take it from me-DO NOT TRY TO PRY THE SCREEN LOOSE! You might lose the power and volume switch caps. Only remove the screen if you need to replace it.
Rather, pull the S Pen from it's socket, and gently pry the back cover loose. From there, follow the directions on YouTube carefully. When you are done, gently reseat the rear cover, and make sure that it's properly seated. You'd never believe that piece of chrome coloured plastic was so important. Sheer Genius!
Well, hope that helps.
Rob

Changed my battery about a week ago. Wasn't very hard and the results have been amazing. So happy.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Hey which battery did you end up buying and from where? If you don't mind my asking
graffix31 said:
Changed my battery about a week ago. Wasn't very hard and the results have been amazing. So happy.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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Get the one used in the most wellknown tutorial vid, from Newpower99. I wonder whether they ship overseas.

Any way to check to see how much power or life your battery has left? Just bought a used one and seems normal.

Stew Pendous said:
Hey which battery did you end up buying and from where? If you don't mind my asking
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i got it from zwxj on Amazon. it was cheap. it was actually very easy to install. there was a small issue though. the cord that connects the battery is a little to long. and the plastic piece at the top isnt exactly correct. i was able to get it in though with minimal effort. they battery lasts forever. the only issue i have and it is a pita is it will randomly shut off when playing a game. doesnt happen all the time and there is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. i need to plug it into the wall and then it will restart with the same battery it shut off from. i could read things all day down to zero and it would never happen. wither way for the 15 bucks or so i spent on the battery it makes the tablet usable again and i love it.

graffix31 said:
i got it from zwxj on Amazon. it was cheap. it was actually very easy to install. there was a small issue though. the cord that connects the battery is a little to long. and the plastic piece at the top isnt exactly correct. i was able to get it in though with minimal effort. they battery lasts forever. the only issue i have and it is a pita is it will randomly shut off when playing a game. doesnt happen all the time and there is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. i need to plug it into the wall and then it will restart with the same battery it shut off from. i could read things all day down to zero and it would never happen. wither way for the 15 bucks or so i spent on the battery it makes the tablet usable again and i love it.
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Click to collapse
I've bought one from AliExpress with the same issue in the little plastic piece on top so I guess it's from the same manufacturer. Mine constantly turns off. Even updating apps. It seems to be an issue with these batteries.
Also, I feel like it doesn't show the correct percentage. Is there something I should do after replacing the battery for it to show the correct percentage?
One last question and this goes to everyone. Using Ampere, could you please check and tell me whats the average drain in mA?
Thanks!

I use Battery Monitor Widget, included in the 3C Android Toolkit, and samplin battery data in sync with Android to save power. So Standby values should be too high to be representative, 0,05 to 0,2A. Idling with screen on, around 0,6A. Max Load should be over 2A or ten watts. These values should be calculated from the battery voltage instead of the Usb voltage. Attached to a power supply, the Note never seems to drain the battery, so there must be a ten watt power limit, it will simply no longer charge under full load.
Using improper plugs doesn't sound like a good idea, the contacts could get so hot, that the plastic of the plug und socket or the back cover could melt and the contacts could de-solder themselves from the main pcb.

Just ordered a OEM Samsung battery today. Will post when I getvand get it installed. Battery is totally flat on my device.

graffix31 said:
i got it from zwxj on Amazon. it was cheap. it was actually very easy to install. there was a small issue though. the cord that connects the battery is a little to long. and the plastic piece at the top isnt exactly correct. i was able to get it in though with minimal effort. they battery lasts forever. the only issue i have and it is a pita is it will randomly shut off when playing a game. doesnt happen all the time and there is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. i need to plug it into the wall and then it will restart with the same battery it shut off from. i could read things all day down to zero and it would never happen. wither way for the 15 bucks or so i spent on the battery it makes the tablet usable again and i love it.
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Click to collapse
I had the exact same thing happening with mine after replacing the battery. Check your CPU clocking. If you're on a CM ROM it's probably overclocked & set to 1900MHz. If you set the governor to 1300MHz (which is the factory clocking speed, I think) it should quit shutting down like that. That's what I did and I haven't had it happen even once since. I think the CPU is just overclocked a bit much for the aftermarket battery to handle. Your tablet will run a bit cooler this way too.

thebadwrench said:
I had the exact same thing happening with mine after replacing the battery. Check your CPU clocking. If you're on a CM ROM it's probably overclocked & set to 1900MHz. If you set the governor to 1300MHz (which is the factory clocking speed, I think) it should quit shutting down like that. That's what I did and I haven't had it happen even once since. I think the CPU is just overclocked a bit much for the aftermarket battery to handle. Your tablet will run a bit cooler this way too.
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That's awesome. Trying it now. Thanks
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

thebadwrench said:
I had the exact same thing happening with mine after replacing the battery. Check your CPU clocking. If you're on a CM ROM it's probably overclocked & set to 1900MHz. If you set the governor to 1300MHz (which is the factory clocking speed, I think) it should quit shutting down like that. That's what I did and I haven't had it happen even once since. I think the CPU is just overclocked a bit much for the aftermarket battery to handle. Your tablet will run a bit cooler this way too.
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I just replaced my battery as the tablet had become unusable. I found the same issue. Only happened once, I also found that I could only charge the device while off, I reseated the charging flex which seemed to correct the unable to charge while on. Now that I think about it, I was on a TW 4.4 rom rooted when it happened, I'll report back with findings.

I contacted Samsung support and they referred me to a distributor of official OEM Samsung parts. Ordered a battery last week. Unfortunately, delivery is in the 2 to 3 week timeframe, as it's coming from overseas. I will let you all know how replacement of it goes.

jak341 said:
I contacted Samsung support and they referred me to a distributor of official OEM Samsung parts. Ordered a battery last week. Unfortunately, delivery is in the 2 to 3 week timeframe, as it's coming from overseas. I will let you all know how replacement of it goes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want or need directions for replacing the battery, when I did mine about a month ago I posted a step by step guide for what to do along with pictures (just ignore the part about removing the charging port if your only doing the battery). Here's a link to it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13

Battery = Crap

Is anyone else having massive battery issues? My 360 dies from 100% in about an hour, and is red hot the entire time. It has become unusable as a result. Seems like this device has gotten a lot of bad rep on battery issues but no one has nailed it down. About to actually throw this thing away but before I do it I'm making one last post on here to see if anyone has ANYTHING I can do.

Did a factory reset, took three times to actually do the reset instead of just rebooting like it was doing. After everything synced up, battery was still draining. I don't really have much of anything installed, battery life is still utter crap and the watch is overheating. To the trash it goes!

theres something very very wrong there , sounds like a app is draining your watch to me, have a look at the wear app on your phone to see if theres anything a miss

ratcom said:
theres something very very wrong there , sounds like a app is draining your watch to me, have a look at the wear app on your phone to see if theres anything a miss
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery stats show no app information. Just says that my battery is going to die in 45 mins from 90%

i would bite the bullet and wipe my phone and watch ..... because its clearly doing something in there

What is the phone doing to cause this? Is it the ROM? I'm on Pure Nexus on the 6P.

Why don't you contact Motorola and ask them for a replacement?
I did when my watch got a crack in the backplate (caused by me doing press ups, whilst wearing it) and they arranged for it to be collected, repaired and re-delivered free of charge.

I was thinking about that but I got it over a year ago so I'm not sure how long the warranty is.

I'm having the same issues, though not as severe as yours. My watch gets about fourteen hours, much less than it used to. I wish there was a place for me to send it to have the battery replaced. I'd send it to Moto, but given their [poor] history of customer service, I'll pass.
It's a shame, really; I like this device, and was thinking of picking up a second one in silver, especially now that the 1st gen prices have dropped as much as they have, but I also don't want to throw good money after bad.

I might just trash this one and get the Asus watch...Moto support was bad from what I read too.

agentfazexx said:
I might just trash this one and get the Asus watch...Moto support was bad from what I read too.
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I have a colleague who sent her son's Moto watch in for warranty exchange, and then waited more than three months before they finally told her that it would be a while before the replacement came, and there are numerous stories out there like that. It's really a shame, because it's a nice watch. The ASUS watch is too expensive for my taste, I really don't want to spend that much on it.

The Asus one on Amazon is $150 new. The original Asus watch is $99. Cheaper than the Moto.

agentfazexx said:
The Asus one on Amazon is $150 new. The original Asus watch is $99. Cheaper than the Moto.
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My mistake, I was thinking about another Android Wear device that was around $300.
Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk

PDADoc said:
My mistake, I was thinking about another Android Wear device that was around $300.
Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk
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That was the Huawei one probably.

agentfazexx said:
That was the Huawei one probably.
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Yep, that's the one!
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

PDADoc said:
Yep, that's the one!
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
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Yeah, I kinda want that one but Asus is a solid brand... I dunno.

throw it away, mines been to Moto already for a replacement and a few months later the pixels on the screen are starting to die, bottom right corner is all messed up. Moto are no longer the company they were. Get another watch from a better maker (LG, Huawei)

IINexusII said:
throw it away, mines been to Moto already for a replacement and a few months later the pixels on the screen are starting to die, bottom right corner is all messed up. Moto are no longer the company they were. Get another watch from a better maker (LG, Huawei)
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Yes, I agree with you. Moto simply isn't anywhere near the same company since all the acquisitions, damn shame. I don't really want to spend $300+ for a Huawei or another watch. Guess I'll just use it until it dies completely and then go back to my Gear Live. I like Android Wear, but hate Tizen!
Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk

My 360 used to last all day and still have 20% charge. Its now going for 2 hours and completely dead. Wiped numerous times. It started around last week.

larrycc said:
My 360 used to last all day and still have 20% charge. Its now going for 2 hours and completely dead. Wiped numerous times. It started around last week.
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Planned obsolescence. [emoji53]
Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk

ZeroLemon 4700 mah Battery Case review

Hey everyone,
So I know there are a couple other reviews for this case but that's ok. I have been using mine for a bit now and last night after a lot of real life usage have put together a review. See how it held up in real life conditions!!! Feel free to ask any questions if you have any!!!

I know you weren't fussy about discussing the ZeroLemon in your other thread, but thought it may be better not to clutter that one up too much, so I replied here
markbencze said:
Nice. I'm still using mine. One thing I forgot to mention in the video that took me a bit to figure out was that when your phone battery is at 100% the battery case will turn off after a bit. It's not a bug though it's a feature. I mean it kinda makes sense right. Why waste power if it's at 100%. So when I'd look at my phone at times and see it's not charging and went down to like 96 or 97 I'd power the case back on and shortly thereafter it would go back up. Pretty clever feature actually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, ok. This will be my first ever extended battery attachment on any device so this will be interesting
Will the ZeroLemon turn on and start charging at "X%" of phone battery left, or do you manually turn the Zero on?

Mikestony said:
I know you weren't fussy about discussing the ZeroLemon in your other thread, but thought it may be better not to clutter that one up too much, so I replied here
Ah, ok. This will be my first ever extended battery attachment on any device so this will be interesting
Will the ZeroLemon turn on and start charging at "X%" of phone battery left, or do you manually turn the Zero on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to manually turn it on. That would be pretty cool if it were that smart but it's not.

So I've been using my ZeroLemon since last Saturday now. While I enjoy the peace of mind of having more power available if needed, I'm not quite sure I need it to be honest I can get through the day just fine with the phone's built in battery.
Also, not quite sure I like the look of the carbon fiber appearance, but it's growing on me.
I always, and have to, use a belt clip/holster for my devices. And as such, there is no such thing available for the LG G7 with the Zero. So, I modified my existing belt clip/holster to fit it (heat guns are wonderful items )
Anyway, just my experience and not sure if I'll continue to use it, or toss it in the drawer for possible future use

Mikestony said:
So I've been using my ZeroLemon since last Saturday now. While I enjoy the peace of mind of having more power available if needed, I'm not quite sure I need it to be honest I can get through the day just fine with the phone's built in battery.
Also, not quite sure I like the look of the carbon fiber appearance, but it's growing on me.
I always, and have to, use a belt clip/holster for my devices. And as such, there is no such thing available for the LG G7 with the Zero. So, I modified my existing belt clip/holster to fit it (heat guns are wonderful items )
Anyway, just my experience and not sure if I'll continue to use it, or toss it in the drawer for possible future use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how such a thing can be considered a case replacement to be taken with you to work, school or the coffee shop.
I see such a device as being for when you will be gone from civilization (Read: USB plugs) for a few days. I mean you can charge these phones with a laptop or any USB station in a lot of places, without needing the charger with you.

Falkentyne said:
I don't see how such a thing can be considered a case replacement to be taken with you to work, school or the coffee shop.
I see such a device as being for when you will be gone from civilization (Read: USB plugs) for a few days. I mean you can charge these phones with a laptop or any USB station in a lot of places, without needing the charger with you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I'll go with you on that.
I suppose there are folks who don't want to worry about their battery dying during heavy usage and having to carry a charging cable and a means of charging it.
And then there are other folks like me who thought it looked pretty neat and wanted to try it

Hey thanks for the review. I've loved Zerolemon. Bought their extended life batteries for both my Note 3 and Galaxy S 3. Man those things were beastly!
Question, when it's charging on the phone how does that effect quick charge? Does it disable it until the case gets full then let it quick charge after the case is at 100%?
Random comment of the day from me listening to your voice made me laugh a little bit, not in a bad way of course, I knew from the long O's that you were either in the northern parts of the US or Canada. I've got family in Minnesota and Wisconsin and had a few online XBL friends from Canada. It's really funny when I start to combine my familys' Southern and Northern accent that I start picking up both. ADHD for the win!

Delete, I found a home for it

phillymade said:
I have the ZeroLemon case for this device, hardly used it and now I traded the G7 for the G8 so I have no need for the case and do not want to throw it out. If anyone wants it, PM me and I will send it out.
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Dude! I just bought this phone a week ago, if you wouldn't mind sending it that would be awesome! I'll send you my address.

Planning to get also this but its too expensive.

cheeze.keyk said:
Planning to get also this but its too expensive.
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Click to collapse
doesn't protect the screen at all, avoid it