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I have TornadoPowerControl installed and working on my Excalibur and would like to know what is the fastest settings I can clock the excalibur without damaging it..?? right now i just have it on AUTO.. Fastest is 204MHZ
Hi, I am trying to install this program as well, but having a little difficulty finding the download for Compact Framework Version 2.0 SP1...I would greatly appreciate if you could help me out.....regarding the highest stable clock speed, I have been testing it at 252 and 264 and personally feel that 252 is pretty stable....thanks for your time.
Regards,
Here's the link i used to DL the .NET Cf.. so 252mhz is stable..? how long u been clocking at that speed for??
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...6b-356b-4a2c-857c-e62f50ae9a55&displaylang=en
apologize for the late reply, thank you for the link....works great, yes my S620 has been overclocked at 252 close to a month now, so far so good.....I did try it a 264 for a while but didn't really notice that much difference and plus I didn't want to take a chance on draining the battery any faster...at 252 my battery still last the whole day on a full charge with a few hours on the phone, couple of hours on wifi, and a couple of hours of watching a movie (via TCPMP)...I have it overclocked all the time at 252 even when it comes out of stanby/and after a soft reset....hope this helps....
In MY business environment, htc s620 with bluetooth enabled and push e-mail enabled, with 15-25 phone call a day, some internet browsing, without tornado power control the battery ends before dinner, and sometime also dinners are part of the business !
My Hermes? always a USB-MINI USB adapter is in my pocket! Wizard? something better! Nokia 6310i? 2-3 days!
Lesson Learned: downclocking is more important in .BIZ than overclocking!
netCF2
kwues said:
Hi, I am trying to install this program as well, but having a little difficulty finding the download for Compact Framework Version 2.0 SP1...I would greatly appreciate if you could help me out.....regarding the highest stable clock speed, I have been testing it at 252 and 264 and personally feel that 252 is pretty stable....thanks for your time.
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
log int xda ftp and you will find just the cab file that you need, instead of the 22 mb download from MS. i am attaching total commander for smartphone it has ftp and reg editer, if you type this into any desktop browers or pocket explorer it will login.
ftp://xda:[email protected]/ xda:xda meaning usernameassword for any other ftp sites. hope that helps.
actually both files will be in ftp excalibur folder. side note you probalby know this, but all files that need or require desktop install, just go to c:\program files\microsoft activesync and you will find the cab file, nice to store for later use. sometimes they will be seperate folder instaed activesynce, well hope some part of this was of any use
Ok i set OmapClock to 252mhz, and i set TornadoTotalControl to 228mhz.. am i doing it right?? i just overlooked my settings and now i think i have it set up wrong.. when i set OmapClock to 252mhz and set the clock its fine but when i reopen OmapClock again it reset back to 132mhz.. is it because when it hibernates the clock resets its speed?? Isn't TornadoTotalControl suppose to keep it overclocked?? hmm.. opinions please.. thanks..
re
Hi,
Everytime i overclock my S620 to 252MHz my phone crashes it freezes up and i cannot do anything accept pull the battery. Am i doing something wrong?? Please HELP!!
Thanks
datacrime said:
Hi,
Everytime i overclock my S620 to 252MHz my phone crashes it freezes up and i cannot do anything accept pull the battery. Am i doing something wrong?? Please HELP!!
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everytime I am close to 11.000 RPM my fiat car engine stops running. Am I doing something wrong?
YES! found: I forgot to connect the brain before starting the engine
Simply you have understoood why your S620 processor is a 200 Mhz processor, because is GUARANTEED working at 200 Mhz! Any overclock isn't, read the DISCLAIMER in Tornado Power Control before testing it at 300 Mhz!
sergiopi said:
Everytime I am close to 11.000 RPM my fiat car engine stops running. Am I doing something wrong?
YES! found: I forgot to connect the brain before starting the engine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Very nice (and polite) response!
re
other people with the same phone have reported that it is stable at 252 so why would'nt mine? What is a stable speed to overclock it to?
Thanks
Does this work better than omap? because I can't seem to get omap working on my Dash.
datacrime said:
other people with the same phone have reported that it is stable at 252 so why would'nt mine? What is a stable speed to overclock it to?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you CAN'T pair the words "stable" and "overclock", otherwise, if it was stable at 220 Mhz (or 230 or 250 whatever) they will sell it as OMAP 220 Mhz, instead of OMAP 200 Mhz!
OVERCLOCK means "OVER THE STABLE CLOCK CERTIFIED FROM COMPANY"
How is your wife in the bed? I don't know, some like her, some other don't...
sergiopi said:
Because you CAN'T pair the words "stable" and "overclock", otherwise, if it was stable at 220 Mhz (or 230 or 250 whatever) they will sell it as OMAP 220 Mhz, instead of OMAP 200 Mhz!
OVERCLOCK means "OVER THE STABLE CLOCK CERTIFIED FROM COMPANY"
How is your wife in the bed? I don't know, some like her, some other don't...
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Click to collapse
That is incorrect. It has nothing to do with stability. It has everything to do with optimal battery life. HTC made their phone with a 200 MHz chip because it provides optimal battery life. Once you overclock it, even 10%, you significantly reduce your battery life due to the faster CPU speed.
An OMAP CPU rated at 200MHz doesn't mean that it won't run stable at 240MHz or higher. The last two phones I've had I ran overclocked 240MHz for months without issue.
Whether or not your phone will run stable at 240MHz is a crapshoot, however... Basically, you can step up the overclocking until the point where the phone locks up and reboots itself. One or two steps below that is the "safe" overclocking speed.
http://focus.ti.com/graphics/wtbu/blockdiagrams/l4_omap850.gif
This is the link to the processor scheme... the data sheet clearly state for the ARM926EJ subsystem MAXIMUM frequency as 200 Mhz
Isn't only a power problem, is also a heat problem and in some conditions it could be critical. Also the other subsystems couldn't accept data at that frequency, depending from tolerance related to building technology and may be the ARM processor works but other components (EDGE, Bluetooth, WIFI, ... ) could overheat.
That's why the overclocker builders always say: USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wt...lateId=6123&navigationId=12000&contentId=4679
link to TI Specs
Summarizing:
Insn't common to fry a processor just for a little (20%) overclock and normal conditions, but if you overclock more than 20% and use it at full power for a couple of ours you love to live on the edge man!
_________________________________________________________________
OMAP850 Features:
Low-Power, High-Performance CMOS Technology
Low-voltage 130 nm technology
1.1 - 1.5V cores, 1.8 - 2.75V IO
Extremely low power consumption: less than 10 µA in standby mode
Split power supplies for application processing, digital baseband and real-time clock enable precise control over power consumption
Optimized clocking and power management: Only two clocks required at 13 MHz and 32 kHz
ARM926TEJ Core Subsystem
ARM926EJ-S V5 architecture up to 200 MHz (maximum frequency)
16 kB I-cache; 8 kB D-cache
Java acceleration in hardware
Multimedia instruction set architecture (ISA) extension
EDGE Digital Baseband Subsystem
384 K-bytes internal SRAM
E-OTD and TTY support
Quad vocoder with EFR, FR, HR, AMR
GSM ultra-low power device (ULPD)
SIM interface
ummmm....
sergiopi said:
Because you CAN'T pair the words "stable" and "overclock", otherwise, if it was stable at 220 Mhz (or 230 or 250 whatever) they will sell it as OMAP 220 Mhz, instead of OMAP 200 Mhz!
OVERCLOCK means "OVER THE STABLE CLOCK CERTIFIED FROM COMPANY"
How is your wife in the bed? I don't know, some like her, some other don't...
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Click to collapse
actually, you can pair the words. I am coming from a PC Gamer standpoint. Look at 3 things
1.) how long will it most likely last if I OC it
2.) Do I plan to have this device for that long? (most cases "no")
3.) can it handle my workload (gaming) without crashing or freezing. (if yes then stable, besides those companies that certify things certify them under a very strict bar.)
overxtone said:
actually, you can pair the words. I am coming from a PC Gamer standpoint. Look at 3 things
1.) how long will it most likely last if I OC it
2.) Do I plan to have this device for that long? (most cases "no")
3.) can it handle my workload (gaming) without crashing or freezing. (if yes then stable, besides those companies that certify things certify them under a very strict bar.)
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Click to collapse
Another way of looking @ it is that most CPU's come in underclocked the reason why so we buy a better model, even more recently we find CPU's just with cores disabled so as they fit into the lower price bracket, so a stable clock is more than capable on many CPU's obviously depending on other factors RAM speed, BIOS blah blah blah "sorry just far too many factors"
Lets just now go back to these tiny PC's "PPC's" it's the same principle Stock frequencys lower than HTC\M$ stated the device runs @.
If my [email protected] are too warm then i OC'd too much, if the screen whites i OC'd too much, the device freezes i OC'd too much.
Sod it 240MHz and stable what more do i want? A substancial speed boost without an excessive heat load.
B.T.W i'm just rambling
yay...
...yay, So I assume you agree with me? lol
overxtone said:
...yay, So I assume you agree with me? lol
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Yep i just had a long winded way of going about it
Basically ..........ummm.... FLAME ON!..
I have a C# Application on several different pieces of hardware with varying processors ranging from like 480 MHz - 800+ mhz.
Currently I am storing data that is populated to combo boxes in an XML file. At any given time there could be as few as 20 Items in the XML file/Combo Box. But at other times, and it seems like more so recently, there can be over 1500 items in the XML/Combo box.
Now I know putting this many items in a box is a dumb idea, and it really was never intended to do this, it just evolved to that point.
With this many items in a combo box, it can take up to 20+ minutes to load the screen.
Would the program be any faster if I were to use SQL instead of XML? I would assume it would be, but haven't messed with it enough to tell if there is going to be a significant difference.
Kcarpenter said:
I have a C# Application on several different pieces of hardware with varying processors ranging from like 480 MHz - 800+ mhz.
Currently I am storing data that is populated to combo boxes in an XML file. At any given time there could be as few as 20 Items in the XML file/Combo Box. But at other times, and it seems like more so recently, there can be over 1500 items in the XML/Combo box.
Now I know putting this many items in a box is a dumb idea, and it really was never intended to do this, it just evolved to that point.
With this many items in a combo box, it can take up to 20+ minutes to load the screen.
Would the program be any faster if I were to use SQL instead of XML? I would assume it would be, but haven't messed with it enough to tell if there is going to be a significant difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
M not sure about which will be faster, in case you are going to use SQL i would suggest to try out an alternative to it and is called SQLite, smaller and faster that SQL CE.
Thanks,
Mohit
SQLite pwns the **** out of pure xml....
I guess Ill take the time to write up some proof of concept stuff and make sure its worth putting dev time into.
Thanks for you opinions!
Not sure which is faster? Write small program which writes and loads data in database/xml milion times in cycle and use datetime class (there may be some better class which measures milliseconds, but I'm not sure, I don't know the whole .NET) to measure which took less time
So with the new Dual Core phones coming out I'm wondering... What's all the hullabaloo?
I just finished reading the Moto Atrix review from Engadget and it sounds like crap. They said docking to the ridiculously priced webtop accessory was slow as shiz.
Anyone who knows better, please educate me. I'd like to know what is or will be offered that Dual Core will be capable of that our current gen phones will NOT be capable of.
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.
KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life.
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I'd really, REALLY like to know how you came to that particular conclusion. While a dual core might not eat through quite as much wattage as two single cores, one that takes less is pure snakeoil IMO. I have yet to see a dual core CPU that is rated lower than a comparable single core on the desktop. Why would this be different for phones?
Software and OSes that can handle a dual core CPU need additional CPU cycles to manage the threading this results in, so if anything, dual core CPUs will greatly, GREATLY diminish battery life.
The original posters question is valid. What the heck would one need dual core CPUs in phones for? Personally, I can't think of anything. Running several apps in parallel was a piece of cake way before dual CPUs and more power can easily be obtained through increasing the clock speed.
I'm not saying my parent poster is wrong, but I sure as heck can't imagine the physics behind his statement. So if I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me.
I can see dual cores offering a smoother user experience -- one core could be handling an audio stream while the other is doing phone crap. I don't see how it could improve battery life though....
The theory is that two cores can accomplish the same thing as a single core while only working half as hard, I've seen several articles stating that dual cores will help battery life. Whether that is true I don't know.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Kokuyo, while you do have a point about dual cores being overkill in a phone I remember long ago people saying "why would you ever need 2gb of RAM in a PC" or "who could ever fill up a 1tb hard drive."
Thing is wouldnt the apps themselves have to be made to take advantage of dual cores as well?
JBunch1228; The short-term answer is nothing. Same answer as the average joe asking what he needs a quad-core in his desktop for. Right now it seems as much a sales gimmick as anything else, since the only Android ver that can actually make use of it is HC. Kinda like the 4G bandwagon everyone jumped on, all marketing right now.
Personally, I;d like to se what happens with the paradigm the Atrix is bringing out in a year or so. Put linux on a decent sized SSD for the laptop component, and use the handset for processing and communications exclusivley, rather than try and use the 'laptop dock' as nothing more than an external keyboard
As far as battery life, I can see how dual-cores could affect it positively, as a dual core doesnt pull as much power as two individual cores, and, if the chip is running for half as long as a single core would for the same operation, that would give you better batt life. Everyone keep in mind I said *if*. I don't see that happening before Q4, since the OS and apps need to be optimized for it.
My $.02 before depreciation.
Then there are the rumors of mobile quad-cores from Nvidia by Q4 as well. I'll keep my single core Vision, and see whats out there when my contract ends. We may have a whole new world.
KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.
dhkr234 said:
Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores. Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing. Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.
KCRic said:
The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores.
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Click to collapse
Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing.
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??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
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No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
dhkr234 said:
Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...
I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
zaelia said:
I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
TJBunch1228 said:
The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Well, you would know
sino8r said:
Well, you would know
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It might be short but it sure is skinny.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
sino8r said:
If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...
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Click to collapse
+1
I was comparing speeds on the Atrix compared to the [email protected] and they matched. The Atrix was much more efficient on heat and probably with battery. The dual cores will use less power because the two cores will be better optimized for splitting the tasks and will use half the power running the same process as the single core because the single core runs at the same voltages for a single core compared to splitting it between two. Let's not start a flame war and make personal attacks on people
Sent from my HTC Vision with Habanero FAST 1.1.0
It is disturbing that there are people out there who can't understand this VERY BASIC engineering.
Voltage, by itself, has NO MEANING. You are forgetting about CURRENT. POWER = CURRENT x VOLTAGE.
Battery drain is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to POWER. Not voltage. Double the voltage and half the current, power remains the same.
Dual core does NOT increase battery life. It increases PERFORMANCE by ***DOUBLING*** the physical processing units.
Battery life is increased through MINIATURIZATION and SIMPLIFICATION, which becomes *EXTREMELY* important as you increase the number of physical processing units.
It is the epitome of IGNORANCE to assume that there is some relation when there is not. The use of multiple cores relates to hard physical limitations of the silicon. You can't run the silicon at 18 GHz! Instead of racing for higher frequencies, the new competition is about how much work you can do with the SAME frequency, and the ***EASIEST*** way to do this is to bolt on more cores!
For arguments sake, take a look at a couple of processors;
Athlon II X2 240e / C3.... 45 watt TDP, 45 nm
Athlon II X4 630 / C3.... 95 watt TDP, 45 nm
Same stepping, same frequency (2.8 GHz), same voltage, same size, and the one with twice the cores eats more than twice the power. Wow, imagine that!
The X4 is, of course, FASTER, but not by double.
Now lets look at another pair of processors;
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ / E6.... 89 watt TDP, 90 nm
Athlon II X2 270u / C3.... 25 watt TDP, 45 nm
Different stepping, SAME frequency (2.0 GHz), same number of cores, different voltage, different SIZE, WAY different power consumption. JUST LOOK how much more power the older chip eats!!! 3.56 times as much. Also note that other power management features exist on the C3 that didn't exist on the E6, so the difference in MINIMUM power consumption is much greater.
Conclusion: There is no correlation between a reduction in power consumption and an increase in the number of PPUs. More PPUs = more performance. Reduction in power consumption is related to size, voltage, and other characteristics.
dhkr234 said:
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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Click to collapse
Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either. For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything. When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else. Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****
KCRic said:
Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
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Agreeing or disagreeing is pointless when discussing FACTS. Perspective has nothing to do with FACTS. You can think whatever you like, but it doesn't make you right.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either.
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Common mistake, assuming that everybody is the same as you. Try not to make that assumption again.
For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything.
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Generalizations lead to inaccuracies. You do not teach by generalizing, you teach by starting from the bottom and building a foundation of knowledge. Rene Descartes (aka Renatus Cartesius, as in Cartesian geometric system, as in the father of analytical geometry) said that the foundation of all knowledge is that doubting one's own existence is itself proof that there is someone to doubt it -- "Cogito Ergo Sum" -- "I think therefore I am". Everything must begin with this.
When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
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... and need to be CORRECTED for it. The two kernels (the only components relevant to this discussion) are completely different! MACH is a MICRO kernel, Linux is a MONOLITHIC kernel. Superficial characteristics (which are OUTSIDE of the kernel) be damned, they are NOT the same thing and thinking that they are is invalid. The average person is irrelevant, FACTS are FACTS.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else.
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So are you trying to tell me that IGNORANCE is BLISS? Because "giving a damn" or not has NO BEARING on reality. The sky is blue. You think that its purple and don't give a damn, does that make it purple? No, it does not.
Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
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Right, servers AREN'T the only thing running multi-core processors, but did you not read where I SPECIFICALLY said **SERVERS**? Wondoze is off track and UNRELATED. I brought up servers because THEY USE THE SAME KERNEL AS ANDROID. If a supercomputer uses Linux, do you not agree that Linux is CLEARLY capable of multiprocessing well enough to meet the needs of a simple phone?
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****
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... perfectionist, intelligent, PATIENT in dealing with ignorance. And understand that ignorance is not an insult when it is true, and contrary to common "belief", does NOT mean stupid. Learn the facts and you will cease to be ignorant of them.
So hopefully this train can be put back on the tracks...
From what I am understanding from more technical minded individuals, Dual Core should help with battery life because it requires less power to run the same things as single core. It can then probably be extrapolated that when pushed, Dual Core will be able to go well above and beyond its Single Core brethren in terms of processing power.
For now, it appears the only obvious benefit will be increased battery life and less drain on the processor due to overworking. Hopefully in the near future more CPU and GPU intensive processes are introduced to the market which will fully utilize the Dual Core's potential in the smartphone world. Thanks for all the insight.
dhkr234 - *slaps air high-five*
A few users in the kernel asked about this subject. So I'm going to answer some questions, and provide some information and understanding here about what a "cpu bin" means (/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin) and more importantly, what it means to us as users.
I'll go ahead and snip my response from the kernel thread to get things rolling here so we can get a basic idea of it, and have an analogy to put into physicality of how this can be compared to something less "mysterious" for the every day guy wanting to understand.
Your CPU bin is the result of your device's inspection and test criteria at the Qualcomm factory. Basically a high bin CPU like a 5 or 6 is a very well made chip and very stable with very little imperfections in the manufacturing process. What this means for a HIGH bin is that the chip requires less voltage to operate at any frequency than, say, a bin 1. This is why you see some people having reboot issues when trying to under volt - their processor becomes unstable with less juice because of less accurate tolerances.
Think of it as friction. If you have a well oiled arm on a machine, and part of that arm's job is to force it's way through an opening repeatedly, and the tolerances on the arm and the opening are just slightly off... Well, for that "more out of tolerance" one to do the same amount of work as one that's parts were machined perfectly, it would require more force, because there is more friction inherently from a less accurate build process. Think of the machine as the CPU, the force required behind the arm being moved to carry out the work as the voltage required in your chip, and the tolerance of the parts as the same - just a different types of parts because of course, it is an analogy.
A higher CPU bin is, generally speaking, a more stable chip. Bus frequency, RAM speed, GPU speeds... Everything is directly related, in terms of stability and capable clock rate, to the chip's bin (or quality of build).
Here is an interesting article that most people will find shocking. Look at the difference is clock rates of low and high binned chips:
http://www.androidbeat.com/2013/09/difference-snapdragon-800-2-2ghz-2-3ghz/#.Uwdf2p_TnqA
Note the example of the HTC One and Galaxy S4. It is obvious that Qualcomm sold their higher end chips to Samsung, while HTC was given the less quality chips. Same chip. Same theoretical clock rate. However, the chips in the HTC One are different in 1 aspect - their build quality, and therefore, their capable clock rate and their stable clock rate.
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And of course the end of that article reallllyy sums up the bottom line here for those of us who like to overclock:
So, you mean to say I should avoid any Android device that uses a Snapdragon S800 SoC running at 2.2GHz, and not 2.3GHz? No! The S800 is the fastest SoC available from Qualcomm, and the slight difference in performance between the different bins should not affect your final decision at all. The S800 is more than future-proof so don’t worry about the slight difference in clock speed.
However, if you are a benchmark junkie or love to overclock your device, better get an Android device that uses the higher binned S800.
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It is important to note, that while there is a slight difference in performance (of course at stock speeds) there is a huge difference in stability when you start adding non-calculated variables when the processor was given it's bin number.... over clocking... and under volting - both common things that are added into a device's operation after rooting and installing a new kernel.
A small tid bit of information to think about:
A bin 6 runs the stock MAX frequency with only 950 MV...
A bin 0 runs the stock MAX frequency with 1100 MV...
150mv difference! You can see the example of my "machine analogy" can't you? Less is required, to do the same amount of work.
SO, what does all of this mean anyways? Well, to sum it all up, it simply means that you should be aware of your device's capabilities. KNOW YOUR BIN!
With a file explorer, navigate to:
Code:
/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin
And if you are running 4.4.2 KitKat:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
There will be a number there 0 - 6
If you are an overclock junkie, higher the number the better.
A lower number like a 0 or 1 will simply mean that you will not be able to get away with as much overclocking and under volting. You kind of just are what you are. If you are a 0 or 1, or even a 2 and you are overclocking and under volting your device and having reboots... well, luck of the draw. Your chip just needs that extra juice to operate, it is a physically binding attribute. Set, and test. Set, and test. Find out where your device is comfortable and what it can handle and accept it.
There is a lot more information that I will add later - specifically about how the different bins are more or less power friendly.
I hope this sheds some light for those who want to understand this.
For those of you wanting to know the guts (as a result of, again, PMs) Keep reading...
BREAKING IT DOWN - A Tale of Two Snapdragons
The test methods involved in "binning" chips. What I am about to explain is what, quite honestly, few people know. This is because the process of testing goes on behind closed doors at Qualcomm, but is common practice in manufacturing anything mechanical or electronic. Quality Control is why you have these "binned" CPUs. It is basically the result of a set of tests run on the chip to examine extremes in variation of fabrication of the chips. No chip, or manufactured part for that matter, is exactly the same as the next, simply because of manufacturing variables that cause the manufactured design to have slight variations or even defects. The silicon of the chip being exposed to undesirable or slightly out of "tolerance" environmental temperatures, for example, could have an effect on the quality of the end product. It is a very controlled process, and the "process corner" as it is called or design of experiments, it a process used to test, evaluate, and graph the uncontrolled moments of that particular part's manufacturing journey.
All of this translates to robustness of a design. After Qualcomm builds the processor, they want to know how this device will perform under different extreme conditions! Simple logic! If I build something, I want to know how it will handle stress, right? But I don't want to damage the ones I have already built. What they do is replicate these possible manufacturing defects in something called "corner lots". Corner lots have had manufacturing process parameters adjusted according to these extremes. They will then test the devices made from these special "test wafers". Typically, for CPUs, and I know at Qualcomm, they will run voltage tests, clock frequency, temperature.
For voltage, for example, the idea there is to push the device to it's maximum and minimum capability at various clock frequencies, to determine it's stability threshold. Any of you other Engineers out there of the electrical type (I am Mechanical, however) have heard a "shmoo plot" which is basically these test functions graphed as hard data. Based on how the chip performs, it is given a number. A well made chip has less manufacturing variation, obviously, and passes the tests with flying colors, shows very desirable characterization traits during the test method, and is given a bin 6 - just as an example. Another chip does ok, is a little less stable overall than the previous, but is still acceptable based upon the design and engineering criteria, and is given a 0 - barely passing the characterization "test".
So back to the beginning. What is CPU binning? What does the number mean?
Well, based up the pvs tables in the source code, it is obvious that the bin 6's are the ones with less VFP (variation of fabrication parameters) because they require less voltage, and at the same time are clocked higher in the GPU, CPU, and RAM and bus. Less force is required to get the job done. A bin 6 would be comparable to the car you bought that finally took a dump a 300k miles while the other one of similar make, model and year died at 200k. Variation in manufacturing. It applies to everything in industry, not just cars and machined parts made of steel. That is what the tests are designed to do. That is why your voltage tables from one device to the next will vary slightly. That is why one person can run this kernel, and this person can't and why one person can under volt their device 35mv while you cannot.
That is what your cpu "bin" represents people. Simply the physical results of some tests done by some engineers to determine your particular processor's compliance to tolerances as it was being built.
Reserved for images of pvs tables. Note the difference in the voltage tables to the right of the frequency steps.
Tmobile note 3, my number is 3. Thanks for the lesson and helpful info.
I wish you got your scale backwards, my T-Mobile Note 3 is a 1.
Edit: Checked my wife's phone and she has a 0. These phones are less than a month old. Wonder if it is just hit and miss per batch or if they started buying cheaper chips.
You are a beacon of knowledge.. Another great write up.. tappin that thanks
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
hmmm interesting write up. I had no clue about CPU binning. Mine is a value of 5. Is there supposed to be anything else in there? It's just a 5, nothing else.
Got a 3.
I don't do any CPU tweaks, but it's nice to know for future reference.
Thx
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
rjohnstone said:
Got a 3.
I don't do any CPU tweaks, but it's nice to know for future reference.
Thx
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
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yeah this phone doesn't need overclocking. I'm stock deodexed with bloat removed and I've never once had the phone stutter or lag once and apps open consistently faster then any phone I've ever had prior to this one (including my S4). Though I do maintenance (wipe Dalvik/cache) every 3 or 4 days.
cun7 said:
With a file explorer, navigate to:
Code:
/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin
There will be a number there 0 - 6
If you are an overclock junkie, higher the number the better.
.
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I am on Project X Kit Kat rom - I used Root Explorer to see if I could locate this - I found d/ folder but I coulid not find anyhting named anything close to acpuclk/pvs_bin
maybe I am looking in the wrong place? Any guidance would be helpful...
thanks
Eric214 said:
Mine is a value of 5. Is there supposed to be anything else in there? It's just a 5, nothing else.
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I hate you.
Sent from another galaxy
Also have a 3 on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (T-Mobile - Stock 4.3)
3 here
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Can anybody with high bin (3-6 lets say) post top and bottom values from acpu_table in the same directory? Just wanted to see how those settings differ at 300MHz idle and 2265MHz full speed to mine with bin 1.
this thread has been addressed before, and the problem with this is that if you ever flashed a rom on your phone, then the bin number will change to that person who made the rom. therefor, the only way this works is if you never flashed a rom or you have your back up rom. Am i missing something ?
---------- Post added at 12:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 AM ----------
oh ok maybe i was wrong sorry
pete4k said:
Can anybody with high bin (3-6 lets say) post top and bottom values from acpu_table in the same directory? Just wanted to see how those settings differ at 300MHz idle and 2265MHz full speed to mine with bin 1.
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I'm running a 3 and I have the same settings.
300 idle and 2265 max.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
Updated post number 2 with images of the pvs table source code. Look at the difference in voltage levels based on the bin number! Quite a difference guys!
Mine doesn't have said folder lol
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
mocsab said:
I am on Project X Kit Kat rom - I used Root Explorer to see if I could locate this - I found d/ folder but I coulid not find anyhting named anything close to acpuclk/pvs_bin
maybe I am looking in the wrong place? Any guidance would be helpful...
thanks
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Its not there in kitkat roms.
/d/acpuclk/
Not /acpuclk/
On Kitkat it is located at:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
Can someone run a long CPU throttling test on this phone to see how heavily it scales as heat builds? The only test I've found online is https://3dnews.ru/assets/external/illustrations/2019/05/27/988154/sm.throttle_1.400.jpg, and it's pretty bad. I've seem comments about how this is one of the hottest 855 devices, and I dunno if you can use some software workarond like on some Xiaomi phones.
The test above was done using https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=skynet.cputhrottlingtest.
I've been looking for a strong phone to run emulators and my picks where either this or the Xiaomi 9T/K20 series. Screen, camera and development edged me towards this phone, but if it can barely sustain a gaming session then it's no good.
When I got mine I used it as a hotspot for 4 days while waiting for the flipcase I had ordered.
I was running both the 2.4G and 5G wifi hotspots at the same time, with a laptop and several other devices using it, and I also used it normally at the same time and even ran some benchmarks like Antutu, and it only got lukewarm at most.
Of course I have the E30 model with 12GB ram, which probably helps keep it cooler.
I'm still on Android 9 if that matters.
cobben said:
When I got mine I used it as a hotspot for 4 days while waiting for the flipcase I had ordered.
I was running both the 2.4G and 5G wifi hotspots at the same time, with a laptop and several other devices using it, and I also used it normally at the same time and even ran some benchmarks like Antutu, and it only got lukewarm at most.
Of course I have the E30 model with 12GB ram, which probably helps keep it cooler.
I'm still on Android 9 if that matters.
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I found various results on Antutu and similar apps, but that only says about burst usage. If that image I linked is correct, after a few minutes the processor clock falls drastically.
If you don't mind please run the app I linked and print the result here. The default time is 15 minutes, but if you can manage a longer test I would appreciate. Of course you'll need to leave the phone resting during that time, so keep that in mind.
An example of a good result, ran on a Mi 9: https://i.redd.it/sh23onvimmq31.png. The phone can be used at full power without downclocking for a long time.
Here are the result. It depends on the temp on the sensor. It hit 90c when ran at full clock speed and it dropped to dynamic clock speed when it was hot on prime core. When it was cold enough it can boost to full speed again.
The environment temp was around 25c. Probably worse if the env temp was high
mickey36736 said:
Here are the result. It depends on the temp on the sensor. It hit 90c when ran at full clock speed and it dropped to dynamic clock speed when it was hot on prime core. When it was cold enough it can boost to full speed again.
The environment temp was around 25c. Probably worse if the env temp was high
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Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?
XDFefo said:
Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?
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Yes, I'm on Android 10 right now. Every day use is fine but actually warmer than I expected. Especially when I do a lot of opening apps, switch between apps that ramp up the prime core.
XDFefo said:
Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?
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I found thermal config file in /vendor/etc
It use virtual-threm to set cpu clock speed in this snapdragon 855 platform based on current temperature.
This is the stock setting that I got from here
https://github.com/AndroidDumps/asu...0-release-keys/vendor/etc/thermal-engine.conf