Develop Bugs

[Q] Qualcomm question..

First of all Im new to the forum so hello lol
I have a question about qualcomm...I know that the scorpion processor in the next generation 45 nm chip but what I dont understand is why is it clocked at 800mhz?
The made it such a big deal crossing the 1ghz mark and I would assume that they would never look back. I might not have my facts straight but dosent the 45 nm run clock-cycles just like a 65 nm but more efficiently in respect of battery consumption.
It looks as if they wanted to get in on the low-end Android market share. As for the G2 which I love, my friend ran quadrant pro infront of me and it shows the cpu was scored what looked like 20% lower than the nexus one at 2.2 (my guess from looking at it) but of coarse the gpu trashed the nexus one.
I saw a interview on engadget about a week ago about googles executive that said soon there will be a clear distinction or line between low end Android and high end Android devices. I wonder if HTC is in contact with google about future updates in order to release devices adequate enough to run them or are they just blindly releasing high build quality devices lol
Sorry about the long post but I had come up with a few questions that I didn't want to ask anywhere else.
Thanks.

Wait until our geniuses figure out root then you can happily run it a 1 Ghz+. If you look at the spec scheets for the MSM7230 then you will see it's rated for speeds 800-1000. Higher speeds=lower battery life, so the reasons for having it clocked lower are very practical. My G2 can average 1600-1650 on quadrant, so I don't think it's that bad.

azzeh3 said:
First of all Im new to the forum so hello lol
I have a question about qualcomm...I know that the scorpion processor in the next generation 45 nm chip but what I dont understand is why is it clocked at 800mhz?
The made it such a big deal crossing the 1ghz mark and I would assume that they would never look back. I might not have my facts straight but dosent the 45 nm run clock-cycles just like a 65 nm but more efficiently in respect of battery consumption.
It looks as if they wanted to get in on the low-end Android market share. As for the G2 which I love, my friend ran quadrant pro infront of me and it shows the cpu was scored what looked like 20% lower than the nexus one at 2.2 (my guess from looking at it) but of coarse the gpu trashed the nexus one.
I saw a interview on engadget about a week ago about googles executive that said soon there will be a clear distinction or line between low end Android and high end Android devices. I wonder if HTC is in contact with google about future updates in order to release devices adequate enough to run them or are they just blindly releasing high build quality devices lol
Sorry about the long post but I had come up with a few questions that I didn't want to ask anywhere else.
Thanks.
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MHz is a misleading statistic to judge performance by. A 1GHz processor is not guaranteed to be faster than an 800MHz one. What is always true, though, is that a given processor running at 1GHz will take more energy than the same processor running at 800MHz. Because these new processors are so fast, even at 800MHz, they are competitive or even faster than any other phone on the market today. However by clocking them a bit slower, they also have quite serviceable battery life.
In daily use, it is unlikely that you would notice much difference between 800MHz and 1GHz with this cpu. They are both plenty fast, and most of the time the CPU will be waiting for you, not the other way around. However if it were clocked at 1GHz, you would immediately see a shorter battery life, so to my mind the sacrifice is well worth it.
As far as any fears that this might be a "low end phone", make no mistake, this is the premiere Android phone on the market right now. The Droid 2 may have a higher profile, but it is slower, has a slower network, and uses a non-standard GUI (not to mention a whole lot more expensive when you factor in the price of the service). No phone will have every possible feature that people want, but as far as raw capabilities go, there is no better phone on the market today as far as I can see.

Those seem to be very valid points and thanks for the input..
One other thing when exactly do you need 1ghz of processing speed?? I mean back in the day the macbook air used a 1.5 ghz processor..
Also where dose the ram come into play?

azzeh3 said:
Those seem to be very valid points and thanks for the input..
One other thing when exactly do you need 1ghz of processing speed?? I mean back in the day the macbook air used a 1.5 ghz processor..
Also where dose the ram come into play?
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RAM is a far bigger determiner of performance on a day-to-day basis than processor speed, at least to a point. You could have a 10GHz computer, but if you only had 64k of RAM it would crawl along miserably slow.
In either case, there is a point of diminishing returns, though as applications become more demanding that point gets higher and higher. I remember selling Mac's back in the early-mid 90's and telling eople, don't worry, 16Megs of RAM (a huge amount back then when the standard was 4MB) would handle anything they could throw at it. Little did I know that just 15 years later I would have 500x that much in my desktop and 32x as much in my cell phone!
I am by no means a Andoid systems expert, but from what I have read there is not much benefit of having more than 512MB of RAM with the current versions of the Android OS. I would have preferred that they included 1GB of RAM just for a future growth path, but I can understand why they didn't. Each of these features costs money, so you have to draw the line someplace, you can't included every feature people may ask for in every phone.

Your right lol How will the big companies make any money if they give you everything you wanted....
I've never kept a phone for more than 8 months because of updated stats but lately there is a boom in technology so its going to be more like 4 months now hahaha

[Q] Dual Core V. Single Core?

So with the new Dual Core phones coming out I'm wondering... What's all the hullabaloo?
I just finished reading the Moto Atrix review from Engadget and it sounds like crap. They said docking to the ridiculously priced webtop accessory was slow as shiz.
Anyone who knows better, please educate me. I'd like to know what is or will be offered that Dual Core will be capable of that our current gen phones will NOT be capable of.

For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.

KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life.
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I'd really, REALLY like to know how you came to that particular conclusion. While a dual core might not eat through quite as much wattage as two single cores, one that takes less is pure snakeoil IMO. I have yet to see a dual core CPU that is rated lower than a comparable single core on the desktop. Why would this be different for phones?
Software and OSes that can handle a dual core CPU need additional CPU cycles to manage the threading this results in, so if anything, dual core CPUs will greatly, GREATLY diminish battery life.
The original posters question is valid. What the heck would one need dual core CPUs in phones for? Personally, I can't think of anything. Running several apps in parallel was a piece of cake way before dual CPUs and more power can easily be obtained through increasing the clock speed.
I'm not saying my parent poster is wrong, but I sure as heck can't imagine the physics behind his statement. So if I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me.

I can see dual cores offering a smoother user experience -- one core could be handling an audio stream while the other is doing phone crap. I don't see how it could improve battery life though....

The theory is that two cores can accomplish the same thing as a single core while only working half as hard, I've seen several articles stating that dual cores will help battery life. Whether that is true I don't know.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Kokuyo, while you do have a point about dual cores being overkill in a phone I remember long ago people saying "why would you ever need 2gb of RAM in a PC" or "who could ever fill up a 1tb hard drive."
Thing is wouldnt the apps themselves have to be made to take advantage of dual cores as well?

JBunch1228; The short-term answer is nothing. Same answer as the average joe asking what he needs a quad-core in his desktop for. Right now it seems as much a sales gimmick as anything else, since the only Android ver that can actually make use of it is HC. Kinda like the 4G bandwagon everyone jumped on, all marketing right now.
Personally, I;d like to se what happens with the paradigm the Atrix is bringing out in a year or so. Put linux on a decent sized SSD for the laptop component, and use the handset for processing and communications exclusivley, rather than try and use the 'laptop dock' as nothing more than an external keyboard
As far as battery life, I can see how dual-cores could affect it positively, as a dual core doesnt pull as much power as two individual cores, and, if the chip is running for half as long as a single core would for the same operation, that would give you better batt life. Everyone keep in mind I said *if*. I don't see that happening before Q4, since the OS and apps need to be optimized for it.
My $.02 before depreciation.
Then there are the rumors of mobile quad-cores from Nvidia by Q4 as well. I'll keep my single core Vision, and see whats out there when my contract ends. We may have a whole new world.

KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
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Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.
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What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.

dhkr234 said:
Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.
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The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores. Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing. Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.

KCRic said:
The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores.
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Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing.
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??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
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No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
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Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.
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You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.

dhkr234 said:
Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...

I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

zaelia said:
I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

TJBunch1228 said:
The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Well, you would know

sino8r said:
Well, you would know
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It might be short but it sure is skinny.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

sino8r said:
If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...
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+1
I was comparing speeds on the Atrix compared to the [email protected] and they matched. The Atrix was much more efficient on heat and probably with battery. The dual cores will use less power because the two cores will be better optimized for splitting the tasks and will use half the power running the same process as the single core because the single core runs at the same voltages for a single core compared to splitting it between two. Let's not start a flame war and make personal attacks on people
Sent from my HTC Vision with Habanero FAST 1.1.0

It is disturbing that there are people out there who can't understand this VERY BASIC engineering.
Voltage, by itself, has NO MEANING. You are forgetting about CURRENT. POWER = CURRENT x VOLTAGE.
Battery drain is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to POWER. Not voltage. Double the voltage and half the current, power remains the same.
Dual core does NOT increase battery life. It increases PERFORMANCE by ***DOUBLING*** the physical processing units.
Battery life is increased through MINIATURIZATION and SIMPLIFICATION, which becomes *EXTREMELY* important as you increase the number of physical processing units.
It is the epitome of IGNORANCE to assume that there is some relation when there is not. The use of multiple cores relates to hard physical limitations of the silicon. You can't run the silicon at 18 GHz! Instead of racing for higher frequencies, the new competition is about how much work you can do with the SAME frequency, and the ***EASIEST*** way to do this is to bolt on more cores!
For arguments sake, take a look at a couple of processors;
Athlon II X2 240e / C3.... 45 watt TDP, 45 nm
Athlon II X4 630 / C3.... 95 watt TDP, 45 nm
Same stepping, same frequency (2.8 GHz), same voltage, same size, and the one with twice the cores eats more than twice the power. Wow, imagine that!
The X4 is, of course, FASTER, but not by double.
Now lets look at another pair of processors;
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ / E6.... 89 watt TDP, 90 nm
Athlon II X2 270u / C3.... 25 watt TDP, 45 nm
Different stepping, SAME frequency (2.0 GHz), same number of cores, different voltage, different SIZE, WAY different power consumption. JUST LOOK how much more power the older chip eats!!! 3.56 times as much. Also note that other power management features exist on the C3 that didn't exist on the E6, so the difference in MINIMUM power consumption is much greater.
Conclusion: There is no correlation between a reduction in power consumption and an increase in the number of PPUs. More PPUs = more performance. Reduction in power consumption is related to size, voltage, and other characteristics.

dhkr234 said:
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either. For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything. When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else. Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****

KCRic said:
Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
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Agreeing or disagreeing is pointless when discussing FACTS. Perspective has nothing to do with FACTS. You can think whatever you like, but it doesn't make you right.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either.
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Common mistake, assuming that everybody is the same as you. Try not to make that assumption again.
For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything.
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Generalizations lead to inaccuracies. You do not teach by generalizing, you teach by starting from the bottom and building a foundation of knowledge. Rene Descartes (aka Renatus Cartesius, as in Cartesian geometric system, as in the father of analytical geometry) said that the foundation of all knowledge is that doubting one's own existence is itself proof that there is someone to doubt it -- "Cogito Ergo Sum" -- "I think therefore I am". Everything must begin with this.
When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
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... and need to be CORRECTED for it. The two kernels (the only components relevant to this discussion) are completely different! MACH is a MICRO kernel, Linux is a MONOLITHIC kernel. Superficial characteristics (which are OUTSIDE of the kernel) be damned, they are NOT the same thing and thinking that they are is invalid. The average person is irrelevant, FACTS are FACTS.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else.
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So are you trying to tell me that IGNORANCE is BLISS? Because "giving a damn" or not has NO BEARING on reality. The sky is blue. You think that its purple and don't give a damn, does that make it purple? No, it does not.
Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
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Right, servers AREN'T the only thing running multi-core processors, but did you not read where I SPECIFICALLY said **SERVERS**? Wondoze is off track and UNRELATED. I brought up servers because THEY USE THE SAME KERNEL AS ANDROID. If a supercomputer uses Linux, do you not agree that Linux is CLEARLY capable of multiprocessing well enough to meet the needs of a simple phone?
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****
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... perfectionist, intelligent, PATIENT in dealing with ignorance. And understand that ignorance is not an insult when it is true, and contrary to common "belief", does NOT mean stupid. Learn the facts and you will cease to be ignorant of them.

So hopefully this train can be put back on the tracks...
From what I am understanding from more technical minded individuals, Dual Core should help with battery life because it requires less power to run the same things as single core. It can then probably be extrapolated that when pushed, Dual Core will be able to go well above and beyond its Single Core brethren in terms of processing power.
For now, it appears the only obvious benefit will be increased battery life and less drain on the processor due to overworking. Hopefully in the near future more CPU and GPU intensive processes are introduced to the market which will fully utilize the Dual Core's potential in the smartphone world. Thanks for all the insight.
dhkr234 - *slaps air high-five*

[Q] overclocking

Hello everyone,
I am using many different roms since i have my desire z rooted.
The only problem is:
i can overclock to about 1 ghz... everything above it results in a freeze were my screen stays awaken.
Does anybody know what i'm doing wrong?

You can try different governors, and others may have some other tips. But its also possible that 1 GHz is all your CPU can handle. Not all CPUs are created equal. Far from it, in fact. There is a reason why CPUs are rated for a certain clock speed, in our case 800 MHz. That's the speed that the manufacturer can basically guarantee stable performance. Anything higher than that, and all bets are off. The manufacturing process has a huge amount of variability to it. So to see some people getting stable performance at 1.5 GHz, while you might not get over 1 GHz with the same series of chip, is not a big shock to me.

What roms are you using?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

I have heArd that CPUs of the same phone can perform different. Mine will run all day at 1.8ghz while others get reboots and freezing when they go over 1-1.2 GHz. It really don't make sense to me but I guess it happens. Just glad mine will take whatever the kernel frequency sets allow lol.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

selfinflicted1 said:
I have heArd that CPUs of the same phone can perform different. Mine will run all day at 1.8ghz while others get reboots and freezing when they go over 1-1.2 GHz. It really don't make sense to me but I guess it happens. Just glad mine will take whatever the kernel frequency sets allow lol.
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The manufacturing process for any type of CPU is quite variable. They can target a range of clock speeds, but can't efficiently manufacture all the chips at the same exact performance. CPUs actually get testing after manufacturing to determine the clock speed, and are "binned" into various categories based on how they tested. If a CPU doesn't meet the test specs for a certain clock speed category, it will be dropped to the next one down. Its also based on market demand. It completely possible a high performing chip gets labelled and sold as a lower performing one, simply to meet demand.

using the andramadus rom i can get well over 1.5ghz completely stable. you should try that

rom benchmarks

I started one for g4 plus now for g5 plus .
Cosmic os 2.1 unofficial
Elemental x kernel over clocked

What benchmark program are you using?

username8611 said:
What benchmark program are you using?
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Antutu

PureNexus using ElementalX stock CPU speeds and GPU governor, CFQ, custom CPU governor settings

Lineage OMS with ElementalX kernel stock CPU speed and governor. ZEN with custom readahead.

This is kind of useless, benchmark comparison means nothing if it is not on the same device with same set of apps installed.
Sent from my LG G5 using XDA Labs

suhridkhan said:
This is kind of useless, benchmark comparison means nothing if it is not on the same device with same set of apps installed.
Sent from my LG G5 using XDA Labs
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That doesn't make any sense. Devices are manufactured to a certain tolerance and winning the "silicon lottery" doesn't make a device faster, it makes it more overclockable. Device to device, stock for stock, the difference should be at most a few thousand points from each other. It should be pretty obvious to kill all background apps and processes before benchmarking so apps installed don't matter either. If Facebook is too important to kill for 10 minutes then that person shouldn't worry about benchmarking.
Device to device are obviously going to vary. But a varience of 10k+ points is a pretty good indicator of one set up running slightly better than the other and it's interesting to compare what is the most optimized settings. I can play with my CPU governor all day and get repeatable results +/- 500 - 1000 points. Both me and my wife had a Nexus 5 and with identical settings we both benchmarked very similar. To say it is a useless test is ignorant. If people look at this as a pissing match to see who's "better" then yeah, I see this being a dumb and useless thread. But I think most people who do this want to know what settings, ROM, and kernel are best optimized for performance.
Edit: https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G5-Plus_id10398/benchmarks
63,191
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345eKlssdH8
62,769
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/214719/moto-g5-plus-review.html
62,893
https://www.pcmag.com/review/352573/motorola-moto-g5-plus
63,845
http://www.guidingtech.com/65986/moto-g5-plus-vs-redmi-note-4/
62,896
5 different devices, all tested stock within right around 1,000 points of each other.

username8611 said:
That doesn't make any sense. Devices are manufactured to a certain tolerance and winning the "silicon lottery" doesn't make a device faster, it makes it more overclockable. Device to device, stock for stock, the difference should be at most a few thousand points from each other. It should be pretty obvious to kill all background apps and processes before benchmarking so apps installed don't matter either. If Facebook is too important to kill for 10 minutes then that person shouldn't worry about benchmarking.
Device to device are obviously going to vary. But a varience of 10k+ points is a pretty good indicator of one set up running slightly better than the other and it's interesting to compare what is the most optimized settings. I can play with my CPU governor all day and get repeatable results +/- 500 - 1000 points. Both me and my wife had a Nexus 5 and with identical settings we both benchmarked very similar. To say it is a useless test is ignorant. If people look at this as a pissing match to see who's "better" then yeah, I see this being a dumb and useless thread. But I think most people who do this want to know what settings, ROM, and kernel are best optimized for performance.
Edit: https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G5-Plus_id10398/benchmarks
63,191
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345eKlssdH8
62,769
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/214719/moto-g5-plus-review.html
62,893
https://www.pcmag.com/review/352573/motorola-moto-g5-plus
63,845
http://www.guidingtech.com/65986/moto-g5-plus-vs-redmi-note-4/
62,896
5 different devices, all tested stock within right around 1,000 points of each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for taking the time to write a long response. But, I believe you may have just proved my point. I believe the test results of different roms should be well within 'around 1,000 points of each other'. Unless-
a. the rom is very poorly optimized - score would be lower.
b. the kernel is overclocked - score could be slightly higher.
c. user error (lots of background apps).

suhridkhan said:
Thank you for taking the time to write a long response. But, I believe you may have just proved my point. I believe the test results of different roms should be well within 'around 1,000 points of each other'. Unless-
a. the rom is very poorly optimized - score would be lower.
b. the kernel is overclocked - score could be slightly higher.
c. user error (lots of background apps).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't know how else to explain this to you. OP got a lower score than me, yet is overclocked. So it stands to reason that either "a. the rom is very poorly optimized - score would be lower" or "b. the kernel is overclocked - score could be slightly higher" or "c. user error (lots of background apps)" is the reason for it. But wait, the performance should be slightly higher for an overclock except that it isn't. That's the whole reason to benchmark. Another possibility is that since I've heard ElementalX is currently having overclock issues, it may be reverting to its nominal frequency, which I believe is 1.4Ghz. How would this person have known that if not for comparing benchmarks? According to you, they can't compare to stock benchmarks because it's a different set of apps installed and a different ROM and in fact can't compare it to anyone because it's a different device, albeit the same model.
Benchmarks show performance differences, regardless of whether or not they are large enough to even notice on a day to day basis. It shows technical differences and if you think technical differences mean jack squat, then why are you even commenting in this thread? It's the same theory when you throw a car on a dyno. You're going to notice small differences between each run, but when you have two of the same model cars with the same engine, and one consistently puts out 30HP more than the other, there's probably a reason for it.
To reiterate what I said in my first reply, for people who want to compare optimization between different ROMs, kernels, and technical settings such as CPU governors and schedulers, benchmarking is not useless. Not in this method of testing and not across identical devices with different software. The baseline or "stock vs stock" comparison shows that the benchmark is measuring with an adequate amount of accuracy and that multiple devices in stock form are performing equally before being modified. Just because it doesn't mean anything to you doesn't mean that it means nothing at all.

I did some research and things like backround apps running in airplane mode scripts like lightning blade. all these things make a difference. I was running kernel over clocked in interactive mode with lightning script. If I set to performance my score was significantly higher I was hoping this would give users a better way to set up and optimize their device not to compare roms running same device. Yes at first I thought about that then realized it wouldn't make a lot of sense. Im hoping some of u guys will hop on board and help test kernel roms and other mods so maybe we can get the best out of our device thanks guys.

CPU thermal throttling under heavy usage

Can someone run a long CPU throttling test on this phone to see how heavily it scales as heat builds? The only test I've found online is https://3dnews.ru/assets/external/illustrations/2019/05/27/988154/sm.throttle_1.400.jpg, and it's pretty bad. I've seem comments about how this is one of the hottest 855 devices, and I dunno if you can use some software workarond like on some Xiaomi phones.
The test above was done using https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=skynet.cputhrottlingtest.
I've been looking for a strong phone to run emulators and my picks where either this or the Xiaomi 9T/K20 series. Screen, camera and development edged me towards this phone, but if it can barely sustain a gaming session then it's no good.

When I got mine I used it as a hotspot for 4 days while waiting for the flipcase I had ordered.
I was running both the 2.4G and 5G wifi hotspots at the same time, with a laptop and several other devices using it, and I also used it normally at the same time and even ran some benchmarks like Antutu, and it only got lukewarm at most.
Of course I have the E30 model with 12GB ram, which probably helps keep it cooler.
I'm still on Android 9 if that matters.

cobben said:
When I got mine I used it as a hotspot for 4 days while waiting for the flipcase I had ordered.
I was running both the 2.4G and 5G wifi hotspots at the same time, with a laptop and several other devices using it, and I also used it normally at the same time and even ran some benchmarks like Antutu, and it only got lukewarm at most.
Of course I have the E30 model with 12GB ram, which probably helps keep it cooler.
I'm still on Android 9 if that matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found various results on Antutu and similar apps, but that only says about burst usage. If that image I linked is correct, after a few minutes the processor clock falls drastically.
If you don't mind please run the app I linked and print the result here. The default time is 15 minutes, but if you can manage a longer test I would appreciate. Of course you'll need to leave the phone resting during that time, so keep that in mind.
An example of a good result, ran on a Mi 9: https://i.redd.it/sh23onvimmq31.png. The phone can be used at full power without downclocking for a long time.

Here are the result. It depends on the temp on the sensor. It hit 90c when ran at full clock speed and it dropped to dynamic clock speed when it was hot on prime core. When it was cold enough it can boost to full speed again.
The environment temp was around 25c. Probably worse if the env temp was high

mickey36736 said:
Here are the result. It depends on the temp on the sensor. It hit 90c when ran at full clock speed and it dropped to dynamic clock speed when it was hot on prime core. When it was cold enough it can boost to full speed again.
The environment temp was around 25c. Probably worse if the env temp was high
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?

XDFefo said:
Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I'm on Android 10 right now. Every day use is fine but actually warmer than I expected. Especially when I do a lot of opening apps, switch between apps that ramp up the prime core.

XDFefo said:
Thanks a lot! Finally more data on this.
The clean step is similar to the first slowdown on the test I linked, maybe from some governor setting on the kernel. There should be a way to either remove or relax the thermal profile if needed, but while a tiered throttle might be too overzealous at least it makes for less performance flutuation.
Anyway, overall it's far from what I've seem before, and pretty good on my book. Good to know. Are you on Android 10 already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found thermal config file in /vendor/etc
It use virtual-threm to set cpu clock speed in this snapdragon 855 platform based on current temperature.
This is the stock setting that I got from here
https://github.com/AndroidDumps/asu...0-release-keys/vendor/etc/thermal-engine.conf