Took the following quote from http://windowsphonehacker.com/thought_why_activating_your_htc_hd2_is_a_bad_idea-01-14-11.php
Thought: Why activating your HTC HD2 is a bad idea
Hacking normally involves some shady but normally legitimate mods to software to bring to light new functions in your device. In the previous Windows Mobile era, Microsoft leaned towards a policy of ignorance towards what developers did to their devices, which brought forth cooked ROMs, unofficial WM6.5 updates, etc. Today, with Windows Phone 7, the stance has changed.
The HTC HD2, once flashed to Windows Phone 7, will not be able to sync with any Windows Live account. This is similar to Windows activation on the desktop, which requires that the software phone home and register its software key. Since the HTC HD2 is not a Windows Phone 7 device, it is not shipped with a PVK, which means it cannot activate with Microsoft's services. When we first reported yesterday about the HD2 getting live services, we were slightly skewed as to what this actually involves.
After further research, we discovered this to be more of a social hack, a type of hack involving tricking clueless employees into thinking that HTC forgot to activate your device. This calls for reason #1 why activating your phone is a bad idea. By lying to Microsoft, you are basically committing a form of fraud to obtain a license key. We are not experts, and the laws vary from country to country, but keep in mind this is not your usual stealing MP3 type of crime-Microsoft gets your name, number, email address, and device information. If Microsoft wanted to enforce this, long story short, you're in trouble.
Of course, we realize that much of the internet is not concerned about breaking their country's laws, a fact we will not have any judgement on. The second reason why you shouldn't activate your HD2 is a little more concerning for some:
Just think. If Microsoft receives hundreds of calls in 24 hours with users claiming their "HD7s" were shipped without PVKs, they're going to catch on. In fact, when reading on XDA developers, a certain post seemed troubling. A certain user writes:
I called the same # about 30 min ago. She asked me what type of phone it was. I said "schubert" then she asked me what happened to my activation code. I told her they never gave me one when i bought the phone. Then she gave me the code. I think there catching on though. She was like " We sure are selling alot of these phones in the last 24h" There gonna catch on just like with the sd cards a while back. Definitely a red flag. They will probably start asking for the serial # of the phone in the near future.
Other users reported being directed to HTC for support, or having strange comments made by Microsoft representatives. The point is this: when you hack software, the software won't bite back. When you hack humans, someone's going to figure it out, and when they do, a lot is going down.
Of course, by now, Microsoft employees have probably read the news all over the internet, so we're interested in what stance Microsoft takes on the issue. There is no way to "purchase" a PVK, unfortunately, leaving this the only option to activate your HD2 and use the Marketplace. Whatever you do is up to you, but we give our warning: Don't get caught, Don't get Microsoft to backlash on everyone else.
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So my thoughts are thinking we were going to get an upgrade from Microsoft to take our HD2's from Win mobile 6.5 to 7. They were talking about a new os way back when the HD2 came out.
Great I thought, sold my TytynII paid T-Mobile £200.00 with an 18 month contract (Ouch). And guess what NO UPGRADE, instead HTC make HD7 using the same hardware with a different case(No access to SD card), just to keep MS off their backs and hey we'll throw in a little back stand to keep you happy.
What [email protected], It's not like I can go and buy a retail, OEM or Upgrade of the new OS. So if this means tricking Microsoft into giving me a license key. tough I'll sleep well tonight.
Glad to get this rant off my chest.
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
We all know there gonna catch up to this, but take advantage now and get your key meanwhile this all happens.
domineus said:
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
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Every device that ships with WP7 should already be pre- or activated during the first setup, well WP7 is not being shipped with HD2, and you are basically exploiting MS activation service.
If you know of CyanogenMod Team Douche, they are basically cooking their own distribution of Android, in the earlier days they were packaging their release with Google apps, it didn't sit well with Google, and they had requested CM remove Google apps from their build tree. The reason is that every OEM who decides to issue a device running an Android flavor is getting the OS for free, but have to pay loyalty to include access to the Market.
With the recent developments around WP7 on HD2, one could easily see why MS might not be too happy about it. OEM's pay roughly $10 in licensing fees r per device to MS to put WP7 on their offerings, well HD2 now becomes a device that got it for free.
Seeing how quickly MS moved to shut down ChevronWP7 tools, and actually patching their OS in the next update to prevent unlocking with ChevronWP7 tools, they might incorporate counter measures to prevent HD2 devices running WP7 from access to their Live services, etc.
On the bright note, once it has been hacked it will only be a catch up game between MS and the enthusiasts - see Apple vs IPhone Dev Team.
good little article! i agree with it, not sure i agree with your opinion though.
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
vetvito said:
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
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agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
vista1984 said:
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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Click to collapse
Android as an OS is free, however to provide the Market access OEM's with carriers have to pay Google.
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
vista1984 said:
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
vetvito said:
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
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ouch,,, i do not deny that there is no direct benefit for MS and HTC..
but when it comes to the advertisement or marketing.. we never know..
or would we hd2 users buy more app and music from marketplace?
or is it a big price gap between brand new hd2 and hd7?
..........
it really depend on how manufacturers think.
they don't need to worry about if another "hd2" case will come up,, this phone is real special one
I've been saying this since news broke of all of this.... I would not be surprised if Live accounts, this means your Xbox Gamertags, get indefinitely banned for this...
Original Article
BackgroundI don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
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Thoughts? Is there a future for Rooting?
Since I own a Motorola Defy I feel this board is my home but if the moderators feel this post needs to be moved to another board then please do by any means.
As some of you may be aware of I've been posting my frustrations of late Froyo update from Motorola in this thread. You might not care how late and why they are late with the updates but I do because I rely on the updates to do more with my smartphone.
You may have already read that virtually there isn't any major change between Anroid 2.2 and 2.3 other than security fixes. Hello? Did you just say the majority of changes in the operating system are about security fixes? Why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? I will try to answer this question shortly.
I don't use a smartphone for a hobby. I truly, like most of you, use my smartphone for productivity. Checking emails on the road, taking notes, instant satellite navigations, web browsing, occasional shopping, music, to read books, and document editing on the go are few to name. To do all those tasks I need to rely on a reliable network service, hardware, and the operating system that enables me to have all those software applications I need. This post is not about network services nor about hardware but I just like to say Motorola Defy has been a good phone, hardware wise, and indeed it should be able to handle Gingerbread if the 512MB RAM is not a limitation.
There are a lot of debates about mobile closed and open operating systems such as iOS and Android respectively on the internet. I'm beginning to see closed operating systems like iOS, WP, RIM, and WebOS are in fact a better choice unlike what open OS proponents have been trying to make us to believe. Ok, lets first see why Android is for free. But before that let me remind you Android is not open-sourced and in fact Google recently made it clear they are not going to let anyone see the source codes, let alone to use them (recompile). They are very public about freebies but not so public about the small prints.
Everything Google does is calculated either for a short strategy or for a long one. That is not for me to say if that is a good thing or bad. My concern is having options in the future not only for myself but also for the next generations such as your children.
Android has been given freely to handset manufacturers to build smartphones. To realise the magnitude of business opportunities Android brought to them you only need to look at the once king of mobile maker Nokia where they are today. Their out-dated Symbian OS alone did all the damage. Google is giving away Android for free to control the market in relation to their services. Dependability has always been the key factor of Google's success for as long as I remember. Google may one day even give away free handsets if that fits with their long term strategy.
At first it might appear to you Google can control the handset manufacturers since they are giving them huge business opportunities. That is far from the reality. Manufacturers also know, like most of us, why Google is giving away their OS for free and have already turned the table to their own advantage. Google recently signed an agreement with their major partners to ensure Android updates are delivered to us consumers quicker. The consumers who are vast in numbers and pay for everything are the losers in the battle of controlling the market by businesses.
In my opinion, Google has been hiding more security issues in Android than we are made to believe. They have recently covered up a serious security issue and never explained publicly how they managed to fix that other than explaining something was fixed on their server-side. I believe the problems are serious enough and if it is revealed Google’s reputation will be damaged. I have no proof as I don’t have access to Google internal documents. Admitting to Gmail security preaches that happened months ago today (3 June, 2011) is another hint that Google is not open about their security issues. Please remember, unlike your Windows machines Android does not have a built-in firewall or antivirus.
Back to the question that I asked earlier, why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? They simply don’t want you to have the latest Android version on your handset because of their Business Model. New Android version goes on to their new handsets, at least initially. There are cases where a particular handset from a manufacturer gets all the updates. The reason behind this is that the handset in question has returned its expected profits or the handset considered as a flagship that most likely continues its pedigree. Examples of these are Samsung’s Galaxy S, Sony Ericson’s Xperia, Motorola’s Droid X. Providing updates to older flagship handsets is to keep existing customers loyal. I don’t see anything bad in this one.
I really see the advantage apple users get for not being dependent on manufacturers to get updates. The same goes to all so called closed Mobile OS. As much as it was heart breaking to hear about the Chinese boy who sold his kidney to buy iPad 2, I’m glad he didn’t buy an Android device otherwise he would have to sell something else for the software updates alone.
I already know my next phone is going to be an Android device but I will keep my eyes on the promised improvements in regards to the updates delivery and if nothing is changed then I will take my business to another company where I know I have to wait weeks not months for updates and if there is a critical security issue I don’t have to pull my battery and SIM card to protect my data.
I really liked what I saw in the OnePlus 7 seriese. My HTC 10 has had a rough go of it and since 5G hasn't matured enough, I decided that another multi-year use 4G phone should replace it vs some cheaper hold over. I was bouncing between the 7 Pro and 7T over the Pixel 4 series for all the reasons that everyone else was - better hardware (for the most part) for a cheaper price.
Then I started reading about security concerns and the whole "typical Chinese company" types of posts. I understand that OnePlus is relatively new and made mistakes (like the one just recently...) but how much truth is there in malicious intent? I read discussion of the 3 series and later 5 series had some kind of hidden communication of data occurring outside of user consent. Even so, I would expect more exposure if there was some malicious activity discovered. Is the opinion of this community that the company is trustworthy? Or as trustworthy as any other mainstream player (Apple, HTC, Google, Samsung)? I am not worried about the typical data collection that all phones do for stat gathering or bug reports. I only really care about actual sensitive personal information, passwords for banking apps (your bank, Venmo, PayPal), etc being compromised. I get there are super paranoid people out there that fuss over any data sharing and that tends to get blown out of proportion or confused in threads. Some have suggested that the first thing one should do is install a custom ROM (and firmware!?) to eliminate potential hidden embedded malicious software in their Oxygen OS flavor of Android 10. Is that something that I should actually consider with this device? I have rooted and used custom ROM's on all my HTC phones since the Thunderbolt and planned to eventually play around with the device, but I never would have thought to do it because I didn't trust HTC.
Anyway, I fear I may have read too many uninformed and paranoid posts to make a meaningful decision so I figured I would poll this community for incite. If there was something real being hiding in the bowls of OnePlus 7 series, I am sure the devs would have picked up on it immediately.
Thanks!
Dear XDA devs,
we are looking for teammates for a automotive software / hardware project. We want to develop modern cockpits
for motorcycles that can be easily retrofitted. For this we still need people who are familiar with Android or Android Automotive OS.
We have funds, but they are limited.
There are enough buyers (a lot of positive feedback and pre-registrations). We have several large chain stores that are
interested in our products and would like to distribute them. Potential investors are also willing to invest, but would like to see more.
We are currently trying to put together a team to develop one of our devices. There is a lot of work to do, but once we achieve our MVP,
we will no longer have to worry about financial resources. Everyone involved in the project will receive company shares,
the amount of which we have to negotiate together.
Production costs for prototypes are secured, as are other costs in the event of outsourcing or material/software purchasing.
As mentioned, we have some financial security. However, we cannot pay high salaries until we reach our MVP.
Prerequisites would be experience in:
- Android system architecture
- Hardware development / mixed signals / microcontroller programming
- Android development - front end / back end
- UI/UX design
Of course, you do not need to have experience in all areas. However, you should already be an expert in your field.
If you are interested, please contact me and I would also be happy to answer any questions in the thread.
https://cmoto.eu/