Develop Bugs

Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers (long read)

Original Article
Background​I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls​
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls​
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road​
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
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Thoughts? Is there a future for Rooting?

Is Android a mess to avoid in the future?

Since I own a Motorola Defy I feel this board is my home but if the moderators feel this post needs to be moved to another board then please do by any means.
As some of you may be aware of I've been posting my frustrations of late Froyo update from Motorola in this thread. You might not care how late and why they are late with the updates but I do because I rely on the updates to do more with my smartphone.
You may have already read that virtually there isn't any major change between Anroid 2.2 and 2.3 other than security fixes. Hello? Did you just say the majority of changes in the operating system are about security fixes? Why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? I will try to answer this question shortly.
I don't use a smartphone for a hobby. I truly, like most of you, use my smartphone for productivity. Checking emails on the road, taking notes, instant satellite navigations, web browsing, occasional shopping, music, to read books, and document editing on the go are few to name. To do all those tasks I need to rely on a reliable network service, hardware, and the operating system that enables me to have all those software applications I need. This post is not about network services nor about hardware but I just like to say Motorola Defy has been a good phone, hardware wise, and indeed it should be able to handle Gingerbread if the 512MB RAM is not a limitation.
There are a lot of debates about mobile closed and open operating systems such as iOS and Android respectively on the internet. I'm beginning to see closed operating systems like iOS, WP, RIM, and WebOS are in fact a better choice unlike what open OS proponents have been trying to make us to believe. Ok, lets first see why Android is for free. But before that let me remind you Android is not open-sourced and in fact Google recently made it clear they are not going to let anyone see the source codes, let alone to use them (recompile). They are very public about freebies but not so public about the small prints.
Everything Google does is calculated either for a short strategy or for a long one. That is not for me to say if that is a good thing or bad. My concern is having options in the future not only for myself but also for the next generations such as your children.
Android has been given freely to handset manufacturers to build smartphones. To realise the magnitude of business opportunities Android brought to them you only need to look at the once king of mobile maker Nokia where they are today. Their out-dated Symbian OS alone did all the damage. Google is giving away Android for free to control the market in relation to their services. Dependability has always been the key factor of Google's success for as long as I remember. Google may one day even give away free handsets if that fits with their long term strategy.
At first it might appear to you Google can control the handset manufacturers since they are giving them huge business opportunities. That is far from the reality. Manufacturers also know, like most of us, why Google is giving away their OS for free and have already turned the table to their own advantage. Google recently signed an agreement with their major partners to ensure Android updates are delivered to us consumers quicker. The consumers who are vast in numbers and pay for everything are the losers in the battle of controlling the market by businesses.
In my opinion, Google has been hiding more security issues in Android than we are made to believe. They have recently covered up a serious security issue and never explained publicly how they managed to fix that other than explaining something was fixed on their server-side. I believe the problems are serious enough and if it is revealed Google’s reputation will be damaged. I have no proof as I don’t have access to Google internal documents. Admitting to Gmail security preaches that happened months ago today (3 June, 2011) is another hint that Google is not open about their security issues. Please remember, unlike your Windows machines Android does not have a built-in firewall or antivirus.
Back to the question that I asked earlier, why then the manufacturer of my handset is not ensuring my handset is safe to use then? They simply don’t want you to have the latest Android version on your handset because of their Business Model. New Android version goes on to their new handsets, at least initially. There are cases where a particular handset from a manufacturer gets all the updates. The reason behind this is that the handset in question has returned its expected profits or the handset considered as a flagship that most likely continues its pedigree. Examples of these are Samsung’s Galaxy S, Sony Ericson’s Xperia, Motorola’s Droid X. Providing updates to older flagship handsets is to keep existing customers loyal. I don’t see anything bad in this one.
I really see the advantage apple users get for not being dependent on manufacturers to get updates. The same goes to all so called closed Mobile OS. As much as it was heart breaking to hear about the Chinese boy who sold his kidney to buy iPad 2, I’m glad he didn’t buy an Android device otherwise he would have to sell something else for the software updates alone.
I already know my next phone is going to be an Android device but I will keep my eyes on the promised improvements in regards to the updates delivery and if nothing is changed then I will take my business to another company where I know I have to wait weeks not months for updates and if there is a critical security issue I don’t have to pull my battery and SIM card to protect my data.

Official channel for feedback?

I'm a new Note 4 user, and generally like the phone. Like anything complex, though, there are a handful of things that I'd prefer to be different. I'll spare everyone from my litany of pet peeves, and just get to the question:
QUESTION: What is the best way to send feedback to Samsung regarding new features / fixes / etc. for the Note 4?
I went to their web site and found various technical/customer support options, but I'm looking for something more focused for enhancement requests. TIA.

I wouldn't waste the time, they are to concerned with jamming their sub par software and applications into their devices just to have their branding and signature on everything you see or interact with to concern them selves with anyone's logical or rational suggestions. Just look how Samsung operates in total perspective, they make TVs and monitors, that's their bread and butter, its where the majority of their most profitable pattens reside. To put this into the most transparent terms possible, they sell more TVs each year than there are phone subscribers with access to their devices in the entire global cellular phone market.
However for some reason to prove to them selves or whoever it is they think they are impressing or competing with, they chose to build garbage on top of googles already 1st class, free operating system and interface, they waste millions of dollars doing so and for some odd reason continue to think that they will one day create a better user experience than Google the company whos bread and butter is development and let's not forgot the company who designs every operating system for every phone they sell.
Until Samsung learns to stop wanting so much counterproductive attention on their products and realizes they would make more money hand over fist buy just selling their products as is with free standard android OS, they will continue to just shovel crap onto their mechanically awesome products rendering them to nothing but bright HD displays running ads that say how stupid they are.
In my personal opinion Samsung just looks stupid next to every other electronics company. And Google needs to grow a pair and say no android OS if you modify a single thing on it. I can't be the only person who sees this flawed business model am I? When's the last time you used an HP, Dell, or Gateway computer that had System modifications of any kind on Windows? You can go out on the limb and applaud HTC for their modifications because they are cell phone company that's all they do, but for Samsung a company that specializes in displays and makes no mobile hardware of their own worth noting, they somehow get the green light on damaging Android OS with their cut rate software, and continue to make the end user of their products disappointed. The worlds gone mad.

Whoa!
:laugh:

I can't say I entirely agree nor disagree with the long post above. I don't hate Samsung, nor am a fanboy of theirs. I just needed a large phone with a stylus, and my previous phone, while large and I LOVED it, didn't have a stylus which was highly needed. All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the time, a large corporation who sells many different devices within a market (ie, phones) wouldn't care about a single consumer's opinion. You are but a single-celled organization to them. They know you're there, but you aren't big enough to see as an individual. In addition, what changes you'd like to see or need- or whatever- most likely won't be what these corporations think their consumer market wants and will buy.
So in other words, if you send them feedback, all you'll get in response is a prewritten thank you letter saying (in summary), "Thanks, we appreciate the feedback and will keep it mind," (but wont).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (sm-910a) using Tapatalk

So, it sounds like Samsung doesn't have an email address, web form, forum, etc. for enhancement requests?
On the parallel topic of big evil companies, and with respect to the folks who have offered their opinions on that subject so far, my experience has been quite the opposite - I find that most successful companies do care what their users think about their products. I work in the software industry, and the products I use most on a day-to-day basis invariably offer some sort of channel for sending feedback to the developer. Every app on the Google Play store has a "Send email" link at the bottom of it's page - in addition to many companies monitoring and responding to written feedback in the ratings section. QuickBooks has a "Send Feedback Online" option under the help menu - and even offers different options for sending comments onenhancements, bugs, and doc. A large software company that I used to work for recently implemented a suggestions forum where users can vote on enhancements, actively prioritizes work on new releases based on this feedback, and publicizes the heck out of the results in conferences, doc, and webinars. Every year I see literally thousands of people give standing ovations at one of their conferences because the developer added better Excel integration, or trimmed two clicks from a common workflow. Perhaps the best example is Atlassian, whose products many in these forums no doubt use. They are laser-focused on the people who use their tools - developers - and have been extremely successful at growing into small and large companies alike by inspiring grass roots adoption.
The list goes on. From what I've seen, companies who listen to their users do well as a result.
That said, not every company is as open to feedback as the ones in the examples above. I've found it difficult to provide feedback to Microsoft, for instance, without being part of a beta program. That said, they have robust forums that are well-attended by their internal staff. I can't say for sure, but I have to assume that the most common squeaky wheels get at least I little grease in future releases.
I don't know Samsung very well, which is why I'm asking about feedback options. It would seem odd to me that they don't have some way for users to weigh in on their Android implementation. Collectively, we buy new phones too frequently and switch vendors too easily for them not to care what we think. I like my Samsung phone, but not because it's a Samsung - it just has the features that I want. They obviously do their research into what's likely to sell. I'm hoping that there's some channel where they're actively soliciting input for improvements.
Like spexwood said, I'm not going to waste my time sending a letter to the president of Samsung and get some generic form letter in return. I know that that doesn't work. I also don't expect that Samsung will care about my suggestions, per se, even if they do have some feedback form. But, I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses text messages because the [email protected]#$ing notification beep doesn't fire when a thread is already on the screen (for example), so if mine is one of 10K voices complaining of the same thing, it would behoove them to listen - or maybe next time I'll switch to that nice LG G3 that I almost bought instead of this Note 4.
Anyway, I'm still interested in practical options for sending OS-related feedback to Samsung. Otherwise, I can just rant about stuff xda-developers and hope that someone at Samsung is watching.

Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
mcmannion said:
[Samsung] obviously do their research into what's likely to sell.
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I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.

mcmannion said:
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
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I almost waited for the S6, then saw the final specs on it, yep not gonna happen no water Resistance no dust resistance and by the way the metal case most likely will have the same issue with scratches that the bezel on the note 4 has. not to mention an octocore 64bit processor that is hobbled at 32bit.
I still might go check it out once my local AT&T store gets them in stock. just to see

Where is the support for Enthusiasts?

I purchased a Razer Phone some time ago, thinking that it is a device designed by and for enthusiasts. I have been sorely disappointed. Where is the support for those of us who are not interested in just another device? Having no prior experience with Razer, a look at their web site (and the confusing attempt at "supporting" their user base) made me think that here is a company on a mission to differentiate their product by providing ground-breaking hardware along with hacker-friendly (in the positive meaning of the term) software.
It appears that I was seriously misled. Where are the factory images? Why must I say my prayers that I will not brick the device, since there is virtually no way to recover in case of a problem with rooting or the like? In addition, I cannot find a venue where their is any discussion with those on the inside regarding the ins and outs of the hardware design or the software implementation. The forum on the Razer site seems to be a place not utilized for useful interchange between users and the company, and absent the necessary tools to expand development, there is not much here either.
Razer is not about to challenge the likes of the big OEMs, so their only hope of success is to provide the kind of support we see from niche companies like Essential.
As an aside, all the hoopla surrounding Project Linda leaves me puzzled. It is not a ground-breaking product by any means. Look at Andromium, for example. There are several other devices further along than Linda and more universal in approach.

I'm fairly disappointed as well. Apart from what you said. Their forums is fairly draconian, I feel like most posts get removed under the guise of "this is not a technical support forum". A company that massively removes posts from their own forum doesn't seem hacker friendly at all.
Also, their own ROM has been very buggy. Why can't they release more incremental updates with security patches and minor fixes?

Question Bugs, framedrops and inconsistencies - a plea

Dear fellow member at XDA.
Recently there has been a lot of threads about software bugs and things that just don't work as expected. These threads are to be expected, for this is a forum where we share those experiences and help each other towards solving them. XDA has always been this way and how can we shed light on a problem without being vocal about it?
But just as sure as there are threads about issues and complaints, there are post from people who have had a seamless experience and are extremely satisfied with their devices - and I'm truly happy for you, I'm mostly in the same boat! But let us not downplay the annoyances and bugs that fellow members experience and hinders them from enjoying that same experience you and I share.
Threads containing complaints over bugs often spark a vast debate that leads to no solution - rather it causes division and makes people shy away from both XDA and Android in general. Therefore; let us not start fighting over our individual experiences and rather respect each other and let everyone contribute without being judged.
For we are different - both in what we perceive, what annoys us and what we can live with. For some of us the cost of the phone puts a huge dent in our pockets, for others it's pocket change. And both are okay - it's the reality.
Some of us who have been using Android since the early 10's may have developed greater patience towards the operating system. Back then, it wasn't a question of whether you had bugs or not - it was rather a question of whether you had bugs that impacted your use case of the phone or you could live with them. Finding a phone without flaws was (and is still to a great extent) impossible.
We often advised each other to flash custom ROMs and custom kernels - that both voided our warranty and created a huge hassle for those who just wanted their phone to work (don't we all?) without all the hassle. For some people and maybe those who had more time on their hands, it was a fulfilling experience and it did indeed give you vast control over your device.
But the custom ROMs weren't the "end all be all" - if you flashed a AOSP rom on many phones, you'd lose the manufacturers phone processing as the camera drivers weren't open source. Sure you could mitigate some of that by installing GCam, but that's only assuming GCam was available for your device - and even then, it was subpar compared to the camera on the stock ROM. Rooting and flashing isn't without its risks, too. The P6P is rather forgiving, thankfully, but with many older devices you would lose your warranty and potential phone features since there had been a 'security breach'.
What I wrote above is not a 'carte blanche' for Google or any other manufacturer to release a software full of bugs - nor should we accept that Android is flawed by nature. Heck, it wasn't even acceptable back then! This is simply to shed some light on maybe why some peoples patience threshold for the occasional frame drop/bug here and there may be larger.
And others have maybe switched to Android from a rock solid iOS with the intention of enjoying a greater level of customisation, only to be faced with bugs, framedrops and things just not working as smoothly as they used to. Frankly, can you blame them for being disappointed? They gave up on something working really well and went against the good old saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' for a greater level of control over their devices and just faced headaches.
'Oh well, just switch back to iOS, what's the problem?'. The problem is simply that Android is more than a decade old now and still is plagued by bugs, fragmentation, subpar user interfaces and software issues. As previously mentioned, that wasn't acceptable a decade ago, and it still isn't acceptable. People switching away from Android doesn't solve this issue - rather we as consumers have to speak up when things don't work. And that's what your fellow members are doing here on XDA.
Post your own experiences (and even the good ones!), but post them in a respectful and acknowledging manner. Maybe one day we can all enjoy a bug free phone while those of us who enjoy tinkering with our phones can enjoy the same phones for even more reasons.

IOS just won't ever be able to win me over, it's closed source...And it's that simple.
The bugs you say android has (my 8 pro is flawless btw) iPhones do not allow you to make any of the changes that you can make on Android, or copying data, installing other ROM's, making root changes, I could go on all day with this but there are a million other threads explaining the same thing.
Android for me and many many others is light years ahead of iOS for a simple reason, it's open source and you can simply do more, iOS would be boring.
Also the pixel launcher is the fault of the performance issues, install Nova or another launcher and you're done.

Sorta agree with your post overall.
In general, I've found the threads in this P6P forum quite respectful - e.g. people experiencing certain issues versus others not experiencing those.
It is often not easy to understand why some issue appear for some people and not for others. At the end of the day, our phones are all different in a way. Different settings, different network operators, different wifi networks, different apps, different mods, etc. I've seen a number of issues / bugs being reported that I simply don't face, but also vice versa.
It's my first pixel and I must say that I've been quite surprised seeing all those issues being reported; combine that with the bumpy Google updates and it is certainly not a totally rosy picture.
I've had 1/6/7/8 OnePlus phones and these have been performing flawlessly overall.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I've been able to overcome the issues which I personally had via rooting / tweaking. Right now, even on the December upgrade, I don't think that I have serious bugs (in the sense of functionality which is simply not working) - but my phone is not yours and vice versa. So at this stage I'm reasonably happy (leaving aside any (dis)liking of Android 12).
Let's hope that Google does a good job with the January upgrade.

foobar66 said:
......Let's hope that Google does a good job with the January upgrade.
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I purchased a dual SIM (nano sim and eSim) ATT Galaxy S21 Ultra to test for 2 weeks, while waiting on Google's January update. For the past 3 days, the S21 Ultra w/Android 12 has performed very well as a smartphone; no connectivity issues, no dropped calls, no smart lock issues, etc. I had hoped the P6P would perform the same way for me. I too am hoping the January update fixes the issues I've had with the P6P.

I've had android since the T-Mobile G1 back in late 2009 and early 2010 and I agree we were beta testers then. I've had many phones since then and very few with issues. I may be one of the lucky ones but I don't have a single issue with the P6P, not on the November update and I sideloaded the December update when it was available with not a single issue. When I got the Note 20 Ultra there were quite a few people posting of issues with it and what it boiled down to was moving data from one phone to another. I always start with a new phone from scratch, I know it involve more time but I have consistently had phones with little to no issues. Just wondering how many issues with the P6P are because of data being transferred from one phone to the other and not setting a new phone up from scratch.

ggrant3876 said:
I've had android since the T-Mobile G1 back in late 2009 and early 2010 and I agree we were beta testers then. I've had many phones since then and very few with issues. I may be one of the lucky ones but I don't have a single issue with the P6P, not on the November update and I sideloaded the December update when it was available with not a single issue. When I got the Note 20 Ultra there were quite a few people posting of issues with it and what it boiled down to was moving data from one phone to another. I always start with a new phone from scratch, I know it involve more time but I have consistently had phones with little to no issues. Just wondering how many issues with the P6P are because of data being transferred from one phone to the other and not setting a new phone up from scratch.
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And then there are those like me who always transfer their stuff (these days mostly by Google's cloud restore, and selective data only restore with Swift Backup) and I never have a problem (including on the P6P). I've even transferred my stuff three times on the P6P - once when it was completely stock before rooting, once after rooting, and then once again a few weeks back when I accidentally factory reset.

tl;dr