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[SIZE=+1]There seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding circling the forums with regards to Knox and the 4.3 OTA.
This is an attempt to clear things up[/SIZE]
UPDATE: It seems that people can find this thread, but are unable to actually READ the information presented. The most important note here is that if you are on 4.3 firmware, you can flash ANY rom you like. No, you are not tied down or locked into stock only or 4.3 roms only. AOSP roms will work fine as well. Now scroll down and READ EVERYTHING IN THIS FIRST POST.
What is Knox? Knox is both a firmware and a software component. The OS has Knox apps, and the MK3 bootloader has a Knox component too. Having Knox apps does not necessarily mean you have the Knox bootloader, or vice-versa.
How does Knox work? Because Knox is both in the OS (apps) and in the firmware (bootloader) it works in two ways. The OS components prevent attempts to obtain root access and make rooting with these Knox apps a pain in the butt. Fortunately they can be removed. In the firmware component (bootloader), Knox works to prevent the flashing of custom kernels and recoveries. If you flash a custom rom or custom recovery WHILE on the Knox bootloader, your Knox flag will be tripped and your Warranty Bit will go from 0x0 to 0x1. The Knox bootloader cannot be downgraded to, say, the MD4 bootloader because of special protections built into it. If you attempt to downgrade it, your phone will instantly brick.
Can I get root on the Knox-enabled update? Yes. For those of us who DID NOT take the official OTA and DO NOT have the Knox bootloader, we can get root on 4.3 by injecting it and removing the Knox apps. For those WITH the Knox bootloader, you will need to wait until a full stock MK3 tar is available, which we can then use to make an Odin-flashable MK3 stock rom with root injected using the de-la-vega root method.
Can I downgrade while on 4.3? You can flash roms no matter what Android version they are. That is perfectly fine. But you cannot downgrade the bootloader if you have the Knox bootloader, or else it will cause your bootloader to become corrupted and give you a fancy paperweight. Again, for those who DO NOT have the Knox bootloader, you needn't worry about this/downgrading firmware since the Knox bootloader is what prevents you from doing this. Downgrading your bootloader includes: attempting to flash full stock tar of software versions < MK3, etc.
How can I tell if I've got the Knox bootloader?
Boot into download mode (through custom reboot menu, or by powering off then holding Power+Home+VolumeDown and then VolUp when prompted). If you see a line that starts with the following, then you've got the Knox bootloader. I will insert a picture showing how it actually looks soon
Warranty Bit:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[SIZE=+1]READ THIS TOO: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1788313
It's for the Verizon S3, but it applies to all the carrier 4.3 updates[/SIZE]
I will add to this as more questions come up
I hope the above helps to clear up some confusion. Ask questions if you are still concerned and I will do my best to answer them.
is there any way to make this a sticky @kennyglass123
This is great information man!
http://i.imgur.com/qrByUGN.jpg
[Q] For now, once you have Knox you'll always have knox? What's the possibility of removing Knox?
elephant007 said:
[Q] For now, once you have Knox you'll always have knox? What's the possibility of removing Knox?
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Click to collapse
as of right now none.
elephant007 said:
[Q] For now, once you have Knox you'll always have knox? What's the possibility of removing Knox?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way to remove bootloader Knox ATM.
I've seen several posts mention "tripping KNOX" or "voiding KNOX." What does that mean, exactly, regarding rooting a phone? Does it just mean it voids the warranty if you need to get support from Samsung/Sprint? Or are there other adverse effects?
Mostly just a visible warranty void.
Samsung bought crapple disease. So sad, but its my excuse to buy a nexus.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
As said above, a voided Knox is mostly just a highly visible warranty void. Your local Sprint store may or may not care, or the specific Samsung rep that you deal with may not care, but it's easier just to not have to deal with it to begin with.
Does this mean there is already a touchwiz 4.3 ROM we can flash or do we still have to wait?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
The biggest thing here is the fact that there is no full tar file to restore. So even if you do not care about knox or warranty. If something goes wrong with a flash or anything else you can't use an older tar file let's say MD4 or LJ7 or anything because you will end up with a brick. There is nothing to use to ODIN restore your device. Once you go 4.3 with Knox you have to stay 4.3 and even if you wanted to stay 4.3 and wanted to restore that there is no tar file at this time.
Have a great day!
I have a question I think we talked a bit about the problems the knox bootloader brings into the system. My question is the opposite what does it fix / change?
Im thinking along the lines of somebody modding the update so an old bootloader would be with the new rom would that be an issue? I think i remember hearing something about wifi being the problem but any clarification would be nice.
docnas said:
I have a question I think we talked a bit about the problems the knox bootloader brings into the system. My question is the opposite what does it fix / change?
Im thinking along the lines of somebody modding the update so an old bootloader would be with the new rom would that be an issue? I think i remember hearing something about wifi being the problem but any clarification would be nice.
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Click to collapse
Late to the party. CNexus already has a update cooking.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
the question im trying to ask is what do we lose if we use the old bootloader? any functionality? (besides the knox security bull$hit)
docnas said:
the question im trying to ask is what do we lose if we use the old bootloader? any functionality? (besides the knox security bull$hit)
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Click to collapse
Right now, wifi is broken with the old bootloader and 4.3 rom...happened on the other devices too (tmo s3 and sprint s4)
But there is a fix: flash at&t kernel. But it messes up screen rotation. So i'm trying to come up with another fix that will let wifi turn on properly and let screen rotation work properly too
You = rock. Or some other awesome thing.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
CNexus said:
Right now, wifi is broken with the old bootloader and 4.3 rom...happened on the other devices too (tmo s3 and sprint s4)
But there is a fix: flash at&t kernel. But it messes up screen rotation. So i'm trying to come up with another fix that will let wifi turn on properly and let screen rotation work properly too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is this Knox a Sprint thing, or a Samsung thing?
I can understand the reasoning for Knox(money) but, dang, I guess it's a dog eat dog world out there.
This doesn't affect CyanogenMod does it? I'm scared...
edit... I remember reading about a brick api or command, I never executed it, sounds nasty, is this what they use to brick peoples phones if they try to "hack" it?
Edge-Case said:
So is this Knox a Sprint thing, or a Samsung thing?
I can understand the reasoning for Knox(money) but, dang, I guess it's a dog eat dog world out there.
This doesn't affect CyanogenMod does it? I'm scared...
edit... I remember reading about a brick api or command, I never executed it, sounds nasty, is this what they use to brick peoples phones if they try to "hack" it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be a we-can't-update-the-bootloader thing lol. And we can't do that because it has Knox, which is Samsung's doing
This shouldn't affect any AOSP roms because it uses a different kernel and builds its own WiFi libs
docnas said:
the question im trying to ask is what do we lose if we use the old bootloader? any functionality? (besides the knox security bull$hit)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read Knox is Samsung's attempt to provide strong security to their phones for the enterprise customers. As you can imagine, allowing system level access to files can be used to get around a lot of security measures that IT people would like to enforce in their client's devices. It makes sense at the enterprise level, but it's a pain for anyone who want's to mod their phone.
So I think the answer to your question is, unless you are using your phone in a locked down corporate environment then there really is no advantage to Knox. Too bad it can't be turned off, at least not officially.
Phone was lost, just got replacement this morning.
My last S4 had been rooted running custom firmware for months w/o issue.
Read through a bunch of threads, ranging from the opinion that the bootloader change + knox wont be a big issue to the sky is falling.
Is it recommended to root my phone at this time, I do have JUMP and would be replacing it once something better comes out? The phone is running 4.2.2, caught it trying to update to already.
Thanks.. I know this may seem redundant but haven't been active on these boards since I got my CFW going. Not seeking help in flashing or anything.. just advice
skrewler said:
Phone was lost, just got replacement this morning.
My last S4 had been rooted running custom firmware for months w/o issue.
Read through a bunch of threads, ranging from the opinion that the bootloader change + knox wont be a big issue to the sky is falling.
Is it recommended to root my phone at this time, I do have JUMP and would be replacing it once something better comes out? The phone is running 4.2.2, caught it trying to update to already.
Thanks.. I know this may seem redundant but haven't been active on these boards since I got my CFW going. Not seeking help in flashing or anything.. just advice
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Click to collapse
Up to you. If the stock rom is bearable and you wanna run the 4.3 stock rom then by all means, go for it.
skrewler said:
Phone was lost, just got replacement this morning.
My last S4 had been rooted running custom firmware for months w/o issue.
Read through a bunch of threads, ranging from the opinion that the bootloader change + knox wont be a big issue to the sky is falling.
Is it recommended to root my phone at this time, I do have JUMP and would be replacing it once something better comes out? The phone is running 4.2.2, caught it trying to update to already.
Thanks.. I know this may seem redundant but haven't been active on these boards since I got my CFW going. Not seeking help in flashing or anything.. just advice
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Click to collapse
Being that your'e using the T-Mobile M919, the whole KNOX bootloader situation doesn't pertain to you as long as you're sure you're on 4.2.2. Root it, flash it, theme it with Hello Kitty... whatever, it doesn't matter; you can still revert back to stock and reset any tripped counters. 4.3 is when the problems begin and the KNOX counter is implemented and can't be reset.
lordcheeto03 said:
Being that your'e using the T-Mobile M919, the whole KNOX bootloader situation doesn't pertain to you as long as you're sure you're on 4.2.2. Root it, flash it, theme it with Hello Kitty... whatever, it doesn't matter; you can still revert back to stock and reset any tripped counters. 4.3 is when the problems begin and the KNOX counter is implemented and can't be reset.
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Click to collapse
I second this.
SO LONG AS YOU ARE ON 4.2.2
- You can root flash do whatever, theme with hello kitty or barbie xD like lordcheeto said or keep it stock
- Install recovery and flash away.
- Will always be able to revert back to 100 percent stock
TAKE 4.3 UPDATE
- I think you are still able to root it without tripping knox counter. Can't remember the last status of that was. But as long as you root it without a custom recovery, i think you are ok. From what i can remember, the bootloader checks the recovery status and trips the knox counter based off the recovery that is on the device. If its different then stock, it trips. But double check with Google about this first.
- If you trip knox counter, you will NEVER (as of now and possibly forever) get it back to zero.
Rooting with safe root won't trip knox and also disables it. But recoveries, kernels, roms, etc will trip the flag
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Root it with chain fire and never look back.
You're on 4.22, so you're golden. Just flash a rooted stock ROM that's on 4.3 and you'll avoid Knox.
I'm running 4.4.2 and never seen this Knox stuff.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
elesbb said:
- I think you are still able to root it without tripping knox counter. Can't remember the last status of that was. But as long as you root it without a custom recovery, i think you are ok.
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ShinySide said:
Rooting with safe root won't trip knox and also disables it. But recoveries, kernels, roms, etc will trip the flag
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Click to collapse
Correct. I've rooted my my second GS4G on 4.3 MK2 and it did not trip the KNOX counter. If you're still on 4.2.2 MDL, then there is no need to update your bootloader. Simply flash ROMs through recovery and flash the 4.3 modem. You will have the goodness of 4.3 on KNOX-less 4.2.2 bootloader. :highfive:
Hello everyone, I have a quick question and would like someones opinion. I got an s3 from tmobile a couple months ago and it's still running 4.2. I was thinking about rooting it when i have more experence but for now i was just planning on updating to 4.3 but I've heard there was problems rooting an s3 due to knox. So should i just wait to update and just root or is everything fine and i can go ahead and update? Sorry for my dumb question I'm kinda new, been lurking around the forums for a month but just finally made an account Well thank you in advance I appreciate it.
P.S I Also heard you cant downgrade once its updated, is that true?
You cannot downgrade your firmware. But you can still flash older roms and kernels. If you are still under warranty, know that flashing will trip the warranty bit in the bootloader and cannot be reversed.
Otherwise, I see no reason not to update. Knox is easily removed. If you care to do so, I suggest updating by flashing the NC2 root66 firmware via Odin. You will be updated, rooted and knox is already removed. You might even be lucky and avoid tripping the warranty bit this way.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
yea I am still under warrenty. I was going to wait until it expired then root but i thought updating would cause problems when i did decide to do it. Thanks for your answer tho, I'm just going to update now, I don't want to root now and i have problems its still fairly new.
You can update either by ota, or flashing the official firmware with odin. See my sig for my firmware thread. If you go the Odin route you will get much faster firmware downloads by going there.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
I've got a new s4 coming from my insurance plan Cuz I broke my screen.
Is there anyway I can get twrp installed without having to sit down at a computer? So I can restore my backup and have it root itself? Help much appreciated.
Search for Towelroot. I believe it will root the Tmo S4 without tripping the Knox flag. I don't think it requires a computer.
And, then once rooted you can install TWRP Manager from the Play Store.
TowelRoot will give you root. When you flash a custom recovery it will trip Knox.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
What do you mean it'll trip knox? Ive never had any issues with anything called knox when I rooted and flashed on my original S4 a couple years ago when I first got it.
@The Sickness , are you saying that I WILL run into knox issues if I use this towelroot?
How do I avoid any knox issues? I don't really have access to a computer so all I'm really trying to do is get it rooted with twrp installed, without using a computer if possible. But if I have to use a computer to avoid knox issues, then let me know.
Thanks
Your new phone will come with 4.3 or 4.4.2. Both have Knox Bootloader.
TowelRoot will give you root. When you flash a custom recovery it will trip Knox. The only way to avoid Knox is to keep the stock recovery. And it will not allow you to flash custom roms.
TowelRoot root is a apk. You just run it and your done.
Haters Made Me Famous
Deviant Team Member
The Sickness said:
Your new phone will come with 4.3 or 4.4.2. Both have Knox Bootloader.
TowelRoot will give you root. When you flash a custom recovery it will trip Knox. The only way to avoid Knox is to keep the stock recovery. And it will not allow you to flash custom roms.
TowelRoot root is a apk. You just run it and your done.
Haters Made Me Famous
Deviant Team Member
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your telling me there is no way to flash custom roms on my new s4?
That seems unlikely. How is everybody else flashing custom roms on newer S4s?
I'm seeing things on Google that suggest I can just uninstall knox. If I uninstall it first, then root, will I be ok? Or if I disable it while rooting?
SaintCity86 said:
What do you mean it'll trip knox? Ive never had any issues with anything called knox when I rooted and flashed on my original S4 a couple years ago when I first got it.
@The Sickness , are you saying that I WILL run into knox issues if I use this towelroot?
How do I avoid any knox issues? I don't really have access to a computer so all I'm really trying to do is get it rooted with twrp installed, without using a computer if possible. But if I have to use a computer to avoid knox issues, then let me know.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Knox flag is a indicator to Samsung that you've installed a Custom Recovery. They instituted the check and the flag in the boot loader for 4.3. All the new phones come with this and there is no way to downgrade to a bootloader that doesn't have the check. Unless you are using the phone on a secure company network that requires it, Knox doesn't affect you in any way. Some people have claimed that it MAY cause you problem returning your phone for warranty, but at this point NO ONE has shown that they have had any issues returning their phone with the Knox flag tripped.
You can verify your bootloader, and view the flag's status once you get the phone by going into download mode - power off the phone. Then, hold the Vol Down button while powering on the phone. Hold the Vol Down until you get to a screen that has a Warning about Custom OS. Press the Vol Up button, and you will see a screen with a very small font and the first line will say "ODIN MODE" If your bootloader has the Knox check and flag, you will see line that says: KNOX WARRANTY VOID:. Next to that line with be either 0x0 or 0x1. If the flag is tripped, it will say 0x1.
If you don't have that line in your bootloader, then you don't have Knox, and you should be able to do what you want. However, if you want to keep your phone Knox free, you won't be able to do Over The Air (OTA) updates. You'll have to manually install ROMS, and never flash an updated bootloader.
I've tripped my Knox flag by flashing TWRP to my phone and have never worried about it.
Rob
Ok tripping it just means it's telling Samsung im messing with it?
It's not actually preventing me from installing custom recoveries or roms?
I thought he was saying I wouldn't be able to do it Cuz of knox.
I don't care about tripping any flags, I've got the premium insurance plan. That's actually how I just got the new s4, by filing a claim.
That's the nice thing about insurance on these devices, messing with the bootloader and installing roms Falls under accidental damage, which is covered.
Sure the deductible is 175 dollars.... But just to replace the glass on one of these can cost upwards of 300 dollars. Worth the 11 dollars a month n deductible. I will be canceling it now though. If this one breaks, I'll just upgrade.
Thanks for the help guys.
I said if you keep STOCK RECOVERY you can't flash roms
Haters Made Me Famous
Deviant Team Member
The Sickness said:
I said if you keep STOCK RECOVERY you can't flash roms
Haters Made Me Famous
Deviant Team Member
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Click to collapse
I can read what u wrote. I thought when you guys said the knox flag would trip, that it meant I wouldn't be allowed to install custom roms.
I don't care about any flags, just so long as I'll be able to flash stuff like normal.
The SIMPLEST SAFEST and EASIEST would be to just install My Backup Pro.
it has a "Migrate" mode which allows you to send all that you wish to transfer to the new device and on that new device all you need to do is add the app and instead of "Sending" the data, just select "Receive". (takes only seconds) That way you won't muck up your warranty on the new device till you're SURE there is nothing wrong with it... (just coz it was "refurbished" does not mean it works flawlessly! :>)
Aloha and Good Luck!
Thanks for the info. But I disagree. It seems I just root with this towelroot' install twrp' and restore.
However, I'll be installing a clean rom, insane v9, and reinstalling ask my apps from scratch. Just start brand new.
This brand new S4 will last me till the "sapphire glass" S6 is released, for sure.
I have a T-889 on Tmobile 4g that I want to root, I have rooted before but never properly. I remember I had a custom rom that was built from official that had features I swore already came with the phone (im crazy). Back to the point======》
I want to root my phone but I hastily upgraded to Android 4.3. Now I have Knox, which I don't want to trip because im on Jump! Which lets me upgrade my phone and switch.
I heard alot about this new method called "towelroot" I am skeptic to try this, also I hear you can't use Odin(what I used to use) because it will trip Knox. I trying to find a safe method that will allow me to root and unroot safely. Also Im also trying to find a way to back up the whole system because I fugged up before. And finally can someone tell me what will/won't trip knox counter.
Thanks Precursors(maybe wrong word)
Sent from 12,678 districts in 45,844 matrix sub-sparses KIFFLOM!!!!
Also I would like to here about the mods you have on your Note 2