Someone ported Bochs (x86 PC Emulator) to the Surface (h t t p://w w w.windows-arm.c o m/index.p h p/desktop-apps-for-windows-rt/697-bochs-for-windows-rt), and I want to know how to set up Ubuntu 12.10 with it.
It's too slow, just forget about it.
Would a different os work?
kitor said:
It's too slow, just forget about it.
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I've seen people running Windows XP on their Android phones using Bochs. Could you use a Windows OS?
An old-enough version of either Windows or Linux (or any other OS that runs on x86) will work, but I don't think you realize how slow we're talking about. It's not that you *couldn't* run 12.10 (or the decade-older XP), it's just that they'd be too slow to be of any use. You'll be much better off using native-ported apps, or even Mamaich's emulation layer; unlike emulating a full PC using Bochs, the emu layer only has to translate the program's code; most of its work can be done by native (ARM) Windows code and there's no need to emulate an entire x86 processor (with memory management and so on). Even so, the emu layer struggles with anything newer than about a decade old...
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GoodDayToDie said:
An old-enough version of either Windows or Linux (or any other OS that runs on x86) will work, but I don't think you realize how slow we're talking about. It's not that you *couldn't* run 12.10 (or the decade-older XP), it's just that they'd be too slow to be of any use. You'll be much better off using native-ported apps, or even Mamaich's emulation layer; unlike emulating a full PC using Bochs, the emu layer only has to translate the program's code; most of its work can be done by native (ARM) Windows code and there's no need to emulate an entire x86 processor (with memory management and so on). Even so, the emu layer struggles with anything newer than about a decade old...
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Aw, man. Oh, well. Guess no Ubuntu any time soon.
Related
today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。
seven7xiaoyang said:
today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。
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No it cannot. Your friend clearly lacks the common knowledge that RT is for ARM and windows 8 is for x86. Round pegs do not fit square holes.
I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.
GoodDayToDie said:
I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.
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sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP
seven7xiaoyang said:
sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP
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You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.
netham45 said:
You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.
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Thank you! I am thinking about the sideloadling the appx,hope for some help
OK, I'm still not sure what you're talking about - just a couple posts up, you said you weren't talking about apps, and now you're talking about .APPX files - but as was mentioned above, most APPX files will be architecture independent (managed code or HTML5); only the native code ones will need different .APPX files for Win8 and RT.
I just wondered if you could install Windows 8.1 on a tablet running Windows 8.1 RT?
No.
Are you sure? I have seen people how has done it
Håvi said:
Are you sure? I have seen people how has done it
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You havent. Windows 8.1 is for x86 processors. Windows RT 8.1 is for ARM. 2 are completely incompatible.
Yeah, even if you had a jailbreak for 8.1, it's (blatantly obviously, to anybody who knows the first thing about CPU instructions sets) not possible. The closest you could come would be installing Win8.1 in an x86 emulator. This is technically possible - for example, you can run Linux in an x86 emulator (built using JavaScript, of all things); http://bellard.org/jslinux - but it's slow as hell and the tablets don't really have enough resources (RAM, etc.) to make it practical even if the speed was great enough to be useful. Oh, and there isn't any jailbreak for 8.1 released yet so far as I know anyhow.
Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?
DeBoX said:
Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?
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Not possible.
Not running Windows per se, but the Microsoft RDP client on Android linked to a Windows PC works very well.
I don't think we'll ever see the Windows kernel running on the Exynos chipset TBH, at the least it would require virtualization or emulation that would require a lot of coding and in any case Windows would place a much larger overhead on the processors than Android or Linux.
Windows RT, the Microsoft "equivalent" of Android (i.e. designed to run on a low-powered chipset), has not been very well received due to its much reduced command set. It looks like Windows desktop, but it cannot run full-blown Windows desktop applications.
FWIW
Ok, figured I'd ask. I know there were a decent number of virtualisation projects a while back, but usually focused around win98 etc
Though I'd love a stripped xp version on this tab
Could always use Citrix Receiver
could you elaborate a bit?
DeBoX said:
could you elaborate a bit?
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Heres a link all the info is there most probably best to use gotomypc By the same devs though mate.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.citrix.Receiver
Well contrary to the "impossible" brigade... a VM with CPU emulation allows all kinds of impossible feats.
PearPC being an example or VirtualPC on old PPC Macs, etc etc. ! There are of course limitations. But the point is x86 & some basic HW emulation will allow you to run Windows as long as what's being emulated is of good enough spec for the version of Windows you want.
The bottleneck is almost always the speed the CPU emulation runs at, and that depends on both host and target architecture and there are different approaches with different advantages/drawbacks.
I've used BOCHS on my 10.1 (original) to run win98 (slooowly) - and others have got XP running (google is your friend) I chose 98 as it's basically DOS +GUI so I figured it might work better. I've not invested a lot of effort as the emulation and integration of UI elements isn't brilliant (yet).
There's a link here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1389700
There are other x86 emulators like DOSBOX/QEMU running on ARM but as with all emulation it's never going to be as quick as a real CPU! That said some DOS games play well I believe.
I've not tried it on my 10.1 (2014) so can't comment on how it good it is there. Can't see how it would be worse!
YMMV.
Are DOS programs able to run on win RT? I have a Fjölnir compiler I would like to run and it is for DOS. I currently use it on my win98se setup, but I would like to use it on the go.
Qiangong2
Are you running Windows RT 8.0 by any chance? If so you can run the "jailbreak", and DosBox is available:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=36620852&postcount=117
I use it quite a bit and it works great on my Surface RT. If this is a true DOS program it should work.
domboy said:
Are you running Windows RT 8.0 by any chance? If so you can run the "jailbreak", and DosBox is available:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=36620852&postcount=117
I use it quite a bit and it works great on my Surface RT. If this is a true DOS program it should work.
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No, I'm on 8.1 I've tried it on dosbox on my Linux setup and it only sometimes works. I was wondering if it is possible to run them nativrly like on win98se
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You could always try it and see, but I highly doubt it. Trying to run it natively via the command prompt you will probably run up against the fact that Windows RT devices are ARM not x86. DosBox masks that by providing a software layer to presents a virtual x86 DOS environment, whereas the command prompt will not and will expect compiled programs to be compiled for the ARM cpu architecture (not to mention digitally signed by Microsoft unless you run the jailbreak). Unless it happens to be a batchfile...
That's odd that it only sometimes works in DosBox... I wonder if some tweaking of the DosBox configuration might be needed... I'm really not much of an expert, but I know there are all sorts of settings that can be changed to suit the program (side note, I think it's awesome that one can set it to emulate a Tandy 1000).
There are rumors that a RT 8.1 jailbreak might finally become a possibility...
domboy said:
You could always try it and see, but I highly doubt it. Trying to run it natively via the command prompt you will probably run up against the fact that Windows RT devices are ARM not x86. DosBox masks that by providing a software layer to presents a virtual x86 DOS environment, whereas the command prompt will not and will expect compiled programs to be compiled for the ARM cpu architecture (not to mention digitally signed by Microsoft unless you run the jailbreak). Unless it happens to be a batchfile...
That's odd that it only sometimes works in DosBox... I wonder if some tweaking of the DosBox configuration might be needed... I'm really not much of an expert, but I know there are all sorts of settings that can be changed to suit the program (side note, I think it's awesome that one can set it to emulate a Tandy 1000).
There are rumors that a RT 8.1 jailbreak might finally become a possibility...
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It's my company's surface rt, so... I will get the win10rt upgrade no matter what I do
Thanks though
Qiangong2
Qiangong2 said:
It's my company's surface rt, so... I will get the win10rt upgrade no matter what I do
Thanks though
Qiangong2
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Just an FYI but I am pretty sure there will never be a Windows 10 RT. The last I heard Win10 was not coming to RT, but there would likely be an update to give some Win10 features to RT.
So, Microsoft just announced Windows 10 on ARM. But not just some stripped down, Windows Phone/RT variant, like W10M. This is full Windows 10.
It also has support for the full x86 win32 library of applications, with some emulation magic that they put in, which appears to run blazingly fast somehow.
What an incredible feat this emulation is.
But my question is: What does this mean for us, Windows RT users?
I want to put this in the Windows RT Development and Hacking section, but I haven't made enough posts n stuff
Nothing at all. The announcement is Windows 10 for ARM64, which is of no use to Windows RT devices, that use 32-bit ARM v7.
I am hoping this will mean a new non-Pro Surface with Windows 10 ARM will be coming. But yeah, nothing for Windows RT devices.
:<
Wack0Distractor said:
Nothing at all. The announcement is Windows 10 for ARM64, which is of no use to Windows RT devices, that use 32-bit ARM v7.
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Shame. But is there a possible way that we could maybe make it run? How different is the architecture? How hard would it be? Would they make an edition for ARM32?
Our WinRT tablets are finished with when it comes to any further work.
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