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Guys,
I have been using HTC devices for many years now:
Pison 5MX, HP Jornada 720, HTC Alpin, HTC Trinity, HTC Kaiser and HTC Polaris!
The form factor of the new TP2 is brilliant.
HOWEVER, the keyboard is just not designed very efficiently for me because it is half of the size of the total width. Which means that the rear part is not used for the keyboard.
I would have preferred a FULL keyboard such as the one on the HTC Universal or on the Psion 5MX or Jornada 720!
I don't understand the point of designing a PDA with a built-in keyboard if the keyboard is just too small which makes it even not usuable. The one on the Kaiser was so small.
HTC produced the Universal with a full sized keyboard using the full width of the screen.
Why not on the newest models?
Any ideas?
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
I don't have a problem with the Keyboard size at all. I think it's just about perfect. My problem is the fact that they made the buttons much bigger and removed 10 keys from the original touch pro. Yeah, It makes it easier for some, but I know I'd rather have the keys. The keyboard still would have had really big buttons.
As a happy Universal owner I understand very well the point of sayborg.
As far as I know the only devices with great keyboards are:
Universal
Advantage
Shift
Toth (New)
But the last 3 options are too big...
I´m in the same interrogant? I want/need to upgrade my 2005 Universal but nothing I can see in the near future as a REAL replacement
TP2 is the closer one I can think
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
I don't know what to think about the keyboard yet. The buttons feel good, not slippery. The number keys at the top are a pain in the ass because the lip of the top layer is slightly overlapping making it just annoying enough to bug me. On screen keyboard is pretty tight. No complaints there.
DavidMc0 said:
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
sayborg said:
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true that we aren't there yet, but as far as hardware I think the Rhodium is getting pretty dame close. Huge screen, sturdy construction, physical slideout keyboard, and a large enough screen that the onscreen finger keyboard is very usable. These are many things that I've been waiting for. The only thing that can make the design better is to make it thiner which will take so time in tech advancement.
I still think they shouldn't be losing some of the buttons they had on the titan/tilt style phones (d-pad and soft key hardware buttons). However, I'm probably not giving the usability of the touch interface enough credit.
As long as the software is up to par (hadware acceleration and strong usability) then it's all gravy. This is the device I've been waiting for for a long time. I'm also thinking that once it's been out a year or so The Android roms for it will be pretty advanced and very capable. Overall, this has a TON of potential and I think it will be the first phone I don't constantly look forward to the next version on.
I just hope against hope that they have enabled hardware acceleration on this phone. If we have another non-implemented 2D/3D driver while relying on CPU power for rendering gsnarfle... I'd be most unhappy.
That's one of the big reasons I'm looking to move away from my Mogul... while it's a decent phone, they seem to have shot it in the leg and then told it to go run a marathon.
It may be my ignorance to the matter, but I hope that all the touchflo3D phones have full hardware acceleration support!
sayborg said:
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well honestly I think I think if they used the whole width it would take up to much space be harder to reach the keys on the ends of the keyboard with your thumbs., and also the kaiser keyboard is not bad, it is very easy to type on for me and I can type fast, adn honestly I think they are making hte keyboards smaller cause its easier to use them on the go,
but look at a pic of the touch pro 2 keyaboard they did make it use mroe space, so they know what you mean it does make typing easier, but for phones with HUGE keyboards.. well most people dont want a phone that big but honestly they used almost all of the space on the touch pro 2 for the keyboard
The only thing that worries me is the lack of the windows key and the ok button. Those two will be missed greatly. Otherwise, I think the keyboard will be a huge improvement over my Mogul's.
sayborg said:
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh sorry. While i havent used any touch device yet, i looked at the Universal, and one word jumped out at me.. Bulky. That thing just looks to big and clunky to be of any fluid use.
I was actually happy when i saw a pitcure of the TP2 keyboard. They keys look like a good size, and the bit of space between them i was happy to see because i toyed with the fuze/tilt and i fat-fingered with that keyboard enough to annoy me.
As far as removing keys... as Ranch Wilder would say..."Less is more". Just because a device as more keys/buttons doesn't mean its better. Take the Logitech G11 keyboard. They dumped a bunch of Macro keys on it, most of which never got used, and only made the keyboard take up more space. Their next version of the G15, the removed alot of the G keys (macro keys) to cut the size down, but there's still plenty to be useful.
I think its more a matter of people being use to so many keys, however i think the touch interface will more than make up for it. Plus i guess that puts me at and advantage where this will be my first phone with a keyboard.
If you feel the keys are too small, tell this to the Blackberry users.
I think the keyboard was stretched pretty close to the edges, I think its fine. the universal has a different target audience than the touch pro 2 if you want the PERFECT universal replacement I suggest this phone:
http://www.htc.com/www/product/shift/specification.html
but I never used or saw a universal so im not sure, but the shift is a really nice phone with a big keyboard and it has ALOT of speed, but it costs alot more than most phones and is wont fit in your pocket either but it seems like the perfect replacement plus it runs windows vista! a real os not a mobile one
and it has a finger print scanner built in whats not to like about that.
CAPS & Function Keys
I cannot imagine why the CAPS(shift) and Function keys are not reversed! Didn't the designers look at a computer keyboard?
So my question is - can the key functions be changed in the software and can the keycaps be popped off and switched?
orb3000 said:
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alas, I have been wishing this for years...
when the original Universal came out, as a college student, I didn't have the means for a Universal...
All I can do now is hope...
after using this phone for about 12 days i can say that itouch/iphone requires no adjustment at all.
i havent used itouch before either the first time i held it in my hand it worked flawlessly.
there was not many missed buttons and accidental clicks on the itouch.
capacitive screen is the way to go for finger operation.
but itouch and iphone also are made specifically for finger touch.
so all the buttons are bigger, the scroll bars are bigger.
on the touch pro 2 theres still million of checkboxes and scroll bars and buttons that are so tiny that you have to have baby size fingers in order to hit that button...
has anyone used an i phone theme for rhodium and see if it is more "finger friendly" theme even with resistive touch screen?
just like with any defice there will be people defending it.
windows vs apple vs linux.
american vs japanese vs german cars
vegetarians vs everyone else
intel vs amd
all these are made with different purpose in mind.
but the better analogy would be
programming in java and programming in assembly language
yes old school dudes that can pinpoint every component on their favorite motherboard and know what it does would say its the most direct programming language
but its old its hard to learn and takes forever to write something.
and you get java that sacrifices some precision in comands but gets the job done with less resources and headache.
my point is
everyone that keeps saying the capacitive and resistive is not much different is far from reality. they are different even though they are both touch screens.
i went off topic a lil
so the idea was if you have itouch or iphone and touch pro 2
post your experience in this topic so its not allover the board
and if you have a iphone theme installer that would be even better id love to hear how much difference does it make having bigger buttons on he screen
I actually cringe a bit every time someone refers to the iPod Touch as the "itouch". It just doesn't sound right...
Anyway, I have both the TP2 and an iPod Touch (2nd gen). The only difference in terms of the touch screen is that one requires pressure and the other doesn't. It's that simple and it's because of the capacitive vs resistive nature of the screens. I think they both work well enough for me.
Honestly, I'd prefer capacitive because then, the screen won't need a flexing membrane and would actually feel hard like glass. And multi-touch would enable full-speed typing on a landscape soft keyboard.
But I've no issues with the resistive screen on the TP2.
Just my 2 cents.
Nothing compares to the iPod Touch and iPhone screens.
They work flawless ........
Ipod Touch/Iphone has the better screen.
Touch Pro 2 is the better phone.
I had an Iphone.. hated the fact that I couldn't customize it to my liking, so I went to TP2.
Ky772 said:
Ipod Touch/Iphone has the better screen.
Touch Pro 2 is the better phone.
I had an Iphone.. hated the fact that I couldn't customize it to my liking, so I went to TP2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you jailbreak an iPhone, you can customize anything ..........
first of all, its not an "itouch" its an ipod touch. do you hear people calling the other ipods "inano" or "iclassic"?
no, its ipod [SPACE] touch
anyway, i have both. regretfully, i like the ipod touch's functions so much more. however, modding the rhodium files and registry is easier because im more familiar with windows in general.
i also like the ipod touch screen more, and also the webbrowser, but i cant stand to not have a physical keyboard and that was the breaking point for me
i personally dont mind the rhodium screen, though it definitely isnt as finger friendly, and is also annoying to use with webbrowsers at times...
sometimes i just broadcast wifi and use my ipod touch safari browser
but i wouldnt rather have an iphone, i like physical keyboards.. and the rhodium one is really really good haha
rhodium (phone with good work capabilites (word, internet, email)
ipod touch (play device)
As far as resistive screens go, the Rhodium is as good as they get. Comparing it to a capacitive screen, in terms of sensitivity, is obviously not going to favor the Rhodium. However, I have an iPod Touch (1st generation), an iPhone (1st generation), and a Rhodium (obviously), and I can say that I almost prefer the Rhodium's screen, since it's much more precise and I can use my fingers, gloves, or a stylus for input. The iPhone's screen is much more sensitive and does multitouch, both things I would love to have on the Rhodium, but the Rhodium's screen is more practical for my uses and fits my needs better. Plus, WM 6.5 combined with the massive screen size means I rarely have to use the stylus.
For the overall package the Rhodium beats the iphone hands down. I have installed SPB Mobile Shell which expells any requirments for skinny fingers. In fact the Rhodium and mobile shell is an awesome combination.
....
Well not to beat a dead horse but I have a iPhone 3g a iPod touch 1st gen and what at&t calls a Tilt2.
As far as screens go there are none better than the apple devices. They have that safari and the app store. That's the extint of their lead. Which is tremendous. Safari is great and simple just as the all the Apple devices. But they are simple. Meaning even with jailbreak there are things that you still can't customize. And so e things you pay a large price for doing so such as speed and stability.
The Tilt2 Now here's where they have it. The screen itself is beautiful. Works the best ive ever seen on a non apple device. I set them side by side and play the same movie hands down tilt2 screen wins.
I currently switch between my tilt2 and iPhone 3g trying to find the sweet spot on either device.
Welp. I'm spent.
Peace P.
69Pwned said:
If you jailbreak an iPhone, you can customize anything ..........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jailbreaking the phone ...yes you can customize everything but it'a B**tch to upgrade the Rom for the purpose of upgrading.
My brother has the phone and everything about the screen is right. ...and all those neat programs scream come over to iphone but the only thing that keeps me here time and time again is the XDA community.
those neat programs scream come over to iphone but the only thing that keeps me here time and time again is the XDA community.
Exactly.
That's what won't allow me to very far from HTC. I have been a at&t fan since the first tilt. This community has been fantastic. Not that the iPhone community has been bad but it's like your fighting with apple every step of the way to make your phone your phone. This is where HTC AND XDA have it all covered. Anytime I meet someone and they say wow you know a lot about this phone I say it's easy just go to XDA. that's where the funny looks begin.
Lol.
xredjokerx said:
first of all, its not an "itouch" its an ipod touch. do you hear people calling the other ipods "inano" or "iclassic"?
no, its ipod [SPACE] touch
anyway, i have both. regretfully, i like the ipod touch's functions so much more. however, modding the rhodium files and registry is easier because im more familiar with windows in general.
i also like the ipod touch screen more, and also the webbrowser, but i cant stand to not have a physical keyboard and that was the breaking point for me
i personally dont mind the rhodium screen, though it definitely isnt as finger friendly, and is also annoying to use with webbrowsers at times...
sometimes i just broadcast wifi and use my ipod touch safari browser
but i wouldnt rather have an iphone, i like physical keyboards.. and the rhodium one is really really good haha
rhodium (phone with good work capabilites (word, internet, email)
ipod touch (play device)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, especially with the last statement. I also have an ipod touch (2G) and a rhodium (obviously) and i mostly use the ipod for games, music etc.
But when it comes down to more serious stuff, well I just can't do withouth the TP2
I do like the ipod touch - iphone screen, games and all, but I simply couldn't have it as a primary phone.
Personally I don't have any issue with either type of screen, I find they function very well, and just stated by a friend above, the only difference i spot is that one needs some pressure and the other doesn't.
Oh and I couldn't do without rhodium's hardware keyboard, in my opinion it's the best feature of this phone, and i don't intend to change it before an Leo with a keyboard (touch pro3?) comes around...
That's all from me
By the way (a bit offtopic), xredjokerx how do you broadcast wifi from the Rhodium? I mean what app are you using for that? It'll prolly come up handy for me
The iphone has a better screen, more apps, faster processor and graphics but the pro2 has the backing of Xda-Developers.
I prefer pro2.
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
As far as resistive screens go, the Rhodium is as good as they get. Comparing it to a capacitive screen, in terms of sensitivity, is obviously not going to favor the Rhodium. However, I have an iPod Touch (1st generation), an iPhone (1st generation), and a Rhodium (obviously), and I can say that I almost prefer the Rhodium's screen, since it's much more precise and I can use my fingers, gloves, or a stylus for input. <--which is why I prefer resistive screens! The iPhone's screen is much more sensitive and does multitouch, both things I would love to have on the Rhodium, but the Rhodium's screen is more practical for my uses and fits my needs better. Plus, WM 6.5 combined with the massive screen size means I rarely have to use the stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with this! Let's see an iPhone user wear thick gloves while using their phone!
All I can say is:
Capacitive screen: sensitivity
Resistive screen: practicality
What I really want to see is multitouch support on a resisitive screen. Then I would be really happy!
fuzzysig said:
after using this phone for about 12 days i can say that itouch/iphone requires no adjustment at all.
i havent used itouch before either the first time i held it in my hand it worked flawlessly.
there was not many missed buttons and accidental clicks on the itouch.
capacitive screen is the way to go for finger operation.
but itouch and iphone also are made specifically for finger touch.
so all the buttons are bigger, the scroll bars are bigger.
on the touch pro 2 theres still million of checkboxes and scroll bars and buttons that are so tiny that you have to have baby size fingers in order to hit that button...
has anyone used an i phone theme for rhodium and see if it is more "finger friendly" theme even with resistive touch screen?
just like with any defice there will be people defending it.
windows vs apple vs linux.
american vs japanese vs german cars
vegetarians vs everyone else
intel vs amd
all these are made with different purpose in mind.
but the better analogy would be
programming in java and programming in assembly language
yes old school dudes that can pinpoint every component on their favorite motherboard and know what it does would say its the most direct programming language
but its old its hard to learn and takes forever to write something.
and you get java that sacrifices some precision in comands but gets the job done with less resources and headache.
my point is
everyone that keeps saying the capacitive and resistive is not much different is far from reality. they are different even though they are both touch screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i want to give one advantage of the resistive screen and is the ability to draw with the stylus on the screen and write on it! (on the pro2 writing a message on the transcriber mode is a breeze, just like on a notebook) the capacitive ones dont have this ability yet! thats why the pro2 have the resistive one, remember is a business pda!!
the problem with the pro screen keyboard is not the screen is the software! i haved the same isues and solved them with the swipe keyboard! (remenber that the pro2 have a real keyboard and the i phone not!!)
try to instal the swipe keyboard! i installed it on my pro 2 and is the best screen keyboard i ever used! better than the i phone one!! you dont have to worry about pressing letters just swipe your finger over them and the word appears!(dont worry about going over the incorrect letter! it know what you mean) search for it here!!
I have owned a g1. I have a Ipod touch and zune hd<----capacitive screens I also have a wing and tp2..
i prefer the resistive screens of my wing & tp2 simply because i can use the screen multiple ways in stead of 1 way..which is your finger tip..it doesnt suprise me that apple would use capacitive so using the thing can be done 1 way..which is finger tip..apple has to controll everything..
i like using my finger nails to text on the screen and also when i where gloves at my job..
to me there is no real difference because i dont touch my screen that lightly that i wouldnt get a response..when i pick up my phone & use it, im not thinking about how soft or hard to press the screen..i just do it as 2nd nature it my screen responds evertime...multitouch isnt really a big deal for me eighter... its def not a deal breaker..i love my tp2 in everyway..
I used to have an iPod Touch and couldn't stand trying to type on the thing. I type much easier on the TP2's touchscreen. The other functions of the touch screen on the iPod, such as browsing and navigating through menus were better though. If someone could just make something to match the Safari browser...
xredjokerx said:
first of all, its not an "itouch" its an ipod touch. do you hear people calling the other ipods "inano" or "iclassic"?
no, its ipod [SPACE] touch
anyway, i have both. regretfully, i like the ipod touch's functions so much more. however, modding the rhodium files and registry is easier because im more familiar with windows in general.
i also like the ipod touch screen more, and also the webbrowser, but i cant stand to not have a physical keyboard and that was the breaking point for me
i personally dont mind the rhodium screen, though it definitely isnt as finger friendly, and is also annoying to use with webbrowsers at times...
sometimes i just broadcast wifi and use my ipod touch safari browser
but i wouldnt rather have an iphone, i like physical keyboards.. and the rhodium one is really really good haha
rhodium (phone with good work capabilites (word, internet, email)
ipod touch (play device)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here! EXACTLY... =]
After returning my previous nexus 7 because of a dead pixel, I'm happy to confirm my new new nexus 7 is working perfectly! No GPS problems, no dead pixels, no super weird touchscreen problems.
But here's a thing I'm uncertain about. I can confirm this happened on both JSSR66N and JSS15R. Although I don't have phantom touches, and my screen supports 10 finger multi touch, there's a little bit of interference when using two fingers: when I hold one finger steady and slowly move another finger so that one of the axles is aligned, the screen registers movement in that same axle on the non moving finger as well. Usually It jumps about 10 pixels.
This results in unsmooth aiming when playing fps games, or other 2-thumb games. It's not game breaking or anything, its just noticeable.
I was wondering if this is normal for capacitive touchscreens, if its just a software bug, or maybe it is indeed a hardware issue in MY tablet, in which case it can be returned, since I'm on day 3 of my 14 day return period.
It isn't normal for touchscreens in general.
However on the Nexus 7 2013, many units will exhibit this behavior. If you don't have any other issues, I wouldn't return it for what you are describing. There are far worse issues you might encounter.
This behaviour is pretty normal for touchscreen when crossing axis with two fingers.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Your answers seem a bit contradicting. Could one elaborate?
The nexus 7 just has a batch of issues. That is not normal, try it out on a different device like a Nexus 4, HTC One or any other device that doesn't have a crop of issues.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
You are not talking much about this in the forum, i don't know if people don't realise about it or just don't have it but there's a big issue with the grounding of many devices. In a Spanish forum we have a big post open about it, one is back from asus and mine is going tomorrow. Mine works well, not perfect, in my hands but over a table works bad, it changes a lot. I guess it works as the creator from the thread says.
I haven't seen a capacitive touch screen that doesn't have this issue to some extend. The touch screen uses a line grid to sense capacitance; so if you have two fingers at the same line-pair, they will influence each others capacitance reading.
My N7 touchscreen definitely works better than my Galaxy i9000 one.
Multitouch in my 2 years old and much more used samsung galaxy s2 works much much much better than the n7. One and multi as far as the s2 can go
tni.andro said:
I haven't seen a capacitive touch screen that doesn't have this issue to some extend. The touch screen uses a line grid to sense capacitance; so if you have two fingers at the same line-pair, they will influence each others capacitance reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the job of the DSP to filter out noise and produce smooth data.
There is absolutely no jitter on my GS2.
Apple iPhone 5 also has no jitter.
Therefore I make the claim that the jitter is not "normal" for touchscreens in general, but for the N7 2013, many units exhibit this behavior, so it isn't worth trying to get a new one, because there are worse things than minor jitter.
sfhub said:
It is the job of the DSP to filter out noise and produce smooth data.
There is absolutely no jitter on my GS2.
Apple iPhone 5 also has no jitter.
Therefore I make the claim that the jitter is not "normal" for touchscreens in general, but for the N7 2013, many units exhibit this behavior, so it isn't worth trying to get a new one, because there are worse things than minor jitter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you are saying, if you take something like 'Yet Another MultiTouch Test' that displays coordinates and a cross; put one finger on the screen and then cross the displayed lines with a second finger that the first pos doesn't move at all?
As long as I don't cross those lines there is no movement/jitter for the first finger.
tni.andro said:
So you are saying, if you take something like 'Yet Another MultiTouch Test' that displays coordinates and a cross; put one finger on the screen and then cross the displayed lines with a second finger that the first pos doesn't move at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On 9 out of 10 Nexus 7 2013 I tried there is movement. On my GS2 there is no movement, nor was there movement on the iPhone 5.
I don't need to use YAMTT, the jitter is immediately apparent when doing rotations in Google Maps. The axis cross when rotating clockwise, counterclockwise.
sfhub said:
On 9 out of 10 Nexus 7 2013 I tried there is movement. On my GS2 there is no movement, nor was there movement on the iPhone 5.
I don't need to use YAMTT, the jitter is immediately apparent when doing rotations in Google Maps. The axis cross when rotating clockwise, counterclockwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
sfhub said:
I don't need to use YAMTT, the jitter is immediately apparent when doing rotations in Google Maps. The axis cross when rotating clockwise, counterclockwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not a challenging test - my N7 has no problem with that. But maybe, I have have one of the better ones...
tni.andro said:
That's not a challenging test - my N7 has no problem with that. But maybe, I have have one of the better ones...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome to your opinion.
It is very challenging for 9 of 10 N7 2013 I tested. I have never seen jitter in YAMTT that was not also reflected in Google Maps.
On N7 I turn on developer options show touches and show pointer location which is actually more direct than YAMTT because it is at the OS level.
I have run YAMTT on three units, but the reason I don't run YAMTT on all units is because some of the units I test do not have access to Internet to download it, while developer options and Google Maps are on every unit.
Just to satisfy you, I installed YAMTT on my GS2 and it is rock solid with
2 finger overlap, pinch-zoom
one finger static, the other sliding to overlap
two finger rotating and overlapping clockwise, counterclockwise
two finger overlap sliding down the screen
It is a shame that folks have gotten so used to buggy touchscreens that they are convincing themselves it is normal.
I know people who think jumpy Google maps is normal because they think it is downloading data. When they see maps on my phone, they are amazed how smooth it is on 2.5yr old technology.
I can just agree with sfhub, many people just agree with the problem an see it normal as some people said in this and other posts related. Your money doesn't have problems, why would you accept a faulty device? It's not just my GS2, even the touch screen of my galaxty 3 (low end from samsung) performs better than this, less points but all are still working today and that's a 4 years old 2.2 froyo (back up phonein case of xtreme necesity).
conclusion
So, in conclusion, the touchscreen's behaviour is not normal for touchscreens in general, but it is very common among nexus 7's.
Arthedes said:
So, in conclusion, the touchscreen's behaviour is not normal for touchscreens in general, but it is very common among nexus 7's.
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From my experience experimenting with many units, that is accurate.
If your jitter progressed to ghost taps, stuck taps, spasdic multi-touch, dead spots/bands, then I'd start to worry.
Minor jitter, don't worry about it.
There are 2 separate issues. Jitter issue, which is not OK and should not happen. However a slight shift in position when using 2 fingers, one static and the other crossing the same axis, the static finger always has a slight shift. That is normal for many touch screens.
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi Guys,
Recently reverted back to Android from iOS. I have had low end and mid range Android devices for development purposes as well as a Windows Phone devices all the way through.
Since taking up the HTC M8 as my day to day device, I have been noticing issues (teeth grindingly frustrating issues) regarding touch screen accuracy and responsiveness.
A prime example of this is when using a browser (Any browser, on both GPE and Sense editions). When making a pinch to zoom gestures, my fingers can move almost half an inch apart before the actual zoom process begins. I have tested this on a Samsung GS4 and found this not to be the case on that device. I believe the root cause of this problem is also behind the poor accuracy when typing on *any* keyboard (i find myself re-writing words again and again despite the larger screen size, you'd expect larger on screen keys would equal less frequent miss stokes...). Again this is not the case on the GS4.
I have used a multitouch testing tool to gauge some measure of response time and touch latency. I have found when moving points at any rate of velocity they begin to lag quite substantially behind my finger. I don't know if this is part of the same problem.
I am wondering if anyone could shed light on whether this is an issue with display touch sensitivity settings, something which could be changed at the kernel level or a limitation with the hardware itself,
Is it also possible that the same algorithm used to detect and handle touch for devices with smaller screen real estate is still being used and that the distances and tolerances for touch and gesture recognition are acting proportionally to the screen size.
Hopefully this is something we can fix, it makes the device tiresome to type with and feel clunky and unresponsive.
The screen on this phone has a higher touch response then the iPhone
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Go in a store and check out another phone. If yours turns out to be defective (which should be the case), you should get it replaced
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
No issues with mine.it's better than iPhone5s I had. Which had some issues sensing touch on corners of display
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app
sabianadmin said:
Hi Guys,
Recently reverted back to Android from iOS. I have had low end and mid range Android devices for development purposes as well as a Windows Phone devices all the way through.
Since taking up the HTC M8 as my day to day device, I have been noticing issues (teeth grindingly frustrating issues) regarding touch screen accuracy and responsiveness.
A prime example of this is when using a browser (Any browser, on both GPE and Sense editions). When making a pinch to zoom gestures, my fingers can move almost half an inch apart before the actual zoom process begins. I have tested this on a Samsung GS4 and found this not to be the case on that device. I believe the root cause of this problem is also behind the poor accuracy when typing on *any* keyboard (i find myself re-writing words again and again despite the larger screen size, you'd expect larger on screen keys would equal less frequent miss stokes...). Again this is not the case on the GS4.
I have used a multitouch testing tool to gauge some measure of response time and touch latency. I have found when moving points at any rate of velocity they begin to lag quite substantially behind my finger. I don't know if this is part of the same problem.
I am wondering if anyone could shed light on whether this is an issue with display touch sensitivity settings, something which could be changed at the kernel level or a limitation with the hardware itself,
Is it also possible that the same algorithm used to detect to handle touch for devices with smaller screen real estate is still being used and that the distances and tolerances for touch and gesture recognition are acting proportionally to the screen size.
Hopefully this is something we can fix, it makes the device tiresome to type with and feel clunky and unresponsive.
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Click to collapse
If you have just moved from the iPhone, then this is a slight orientation problem ... and actually the M8 is the nearest you can get in terms of responsiveness to an iPhone, thanks to the fastest screen response time on the market ... for keyboard, you need to deliberately slow your finger speed down for few days and then you get used to it ... Screen/phone size also play a part in your typing because your mind can remember sub-consciously how much finger movement to do for typing ..
All the above is assuming you were an avid typist for long time on an iPhone
v-b-n said:
If you have just moved from the iPhone, then this is a slight orientation problem ... and actually the M8 is the nearest you can get in terms of responsiveness to an iPhone, thanks to the fastest screen response time on the market ... for keyboard, you need to deliberately slow your finger speed down for few days and then you get used to it ... Screen/phone size also play a part in your typing because your mind can remember sub-consciously how much finger movement to do for typing ..
All the above is assuming you were an avid typist for long time on an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for all the replies, it is likely that its a transitional issue alright. But before i write it off as such, can anyone verify the issues regarding pinch to zoom? Just trying to figure out if it is a faulty device i have on my hands or not
I get the exactly the same issues. I really thought it was me .
However I had the HTC One M7 and had no issue whatsoever.
LG G2 also same no issues .But since getting
HTC One M8, the touch accuracy is well absolutely useless. I am forever correcting what I type.
I don't think its the hardware but something to do with the Algorithm..No matter what keyboard you use or calibration you do. doesn't make any difference
I am hoping that lollipop cures this problem..
My touch accuracy has always been great. I'd say that if yours isn't it's a hardware problem.
Lostatsea23 said:
The screen on this phone has a higher touch response then the iPhone
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I tried the m8 and iphone 6 instore and compared them. The m8 screen is very sensitive, requiring minimal touch to be activated. This may be why tests are showing that the m8 has a faster touch response. However, when dragging your finger along the screen, such as swiping launcher screens, the iphone is more responsive.
I then tested "show touches" on the m8, the touch lags behind my finger.
which one would I buy?
I haven't seen a tab s in person yet but if it's available now here I would definitely choose it if the screen is as good as they say
Do you need the s-pen?
I have both and I'm feeling the Tab S more due to the screen. You won't go wrong if you choose the Note, its a great tablet, the main attraction is the pen which I hardly used. The Pro tablets weren't available at the time of purchase. After a few more days ill make my decision, but I'll probably keep the tab s.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
dcaplinger76 said:
Do you need the s-pen?
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I had the same question before. The only advantage the Note has is the Pen.
The Tab s has better screen, better battery life and it is a brand new device therefore more likely would receive updates. The Note is more then 6 mths old. The HW specs are nearly the same as the Tab S but for the same price. For me the Tab S won and I love it.
Wish Samsung put it the pen in Tab S. I'll think I'll just wait for the next Samsung Note.
I went through this dilemma and ended up with the note. It's a tough call. I love oled but also had the older note and did use the spen for meeting notes. It's really oled vs digitizer.... nothing much else in it though the UK note is annoyingly still on 4.3. The note screen is lcd but very clear.
One consideration on screens. For movies etc and anytime the screen is darkish the oled will use far less power. All whites ie some Web browsing is worst case for oled and will such juice worse .
They're both superb tablets.
Which would you buy, a second hand 10.1 for $300 AUD or a brand new 10.5 for $580? Both 16GB wifi only model.
I sold my note for the tab s 8.4 and never looked back. Owning the note always felt like it was an incomplete job and unfortunately Samsung has a bad habit of not updating the software of older models even if their hardware can run it properly.
This is the best Android tablet I've ever of we'd and there's absolutely no reason for you not to like it
I have both (actually just sold my Note 10.1 2014). Here's is how I'd compare the two:
Advantages of Tab S:
- Tab S has better screen (colors in photos are more realistic on Tab S)
- Tab S has some better/updated apps (e.g., sidesync lets me make/take calls from my Galaxy S5)
- Tab S has better accessories available (covers, keyboards)
- Tab S has side power plug (precludes need for stand and angled power cord when used with book cover)
- Tab S is thinner/lighter (but the Tab S' smaller bezels make it a bit harder to hold...minimizing this advantage a tad)
Disadvantages of Tab S
- Note 2014 has S-Pen/Wacom, but this disadvantage is mitigated a bit by the fact that the Tab S has a sensitive screen works with fine tip (3mm) capacitive pens (e.g., iCooly). http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009XGMO1A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
- Gold trim on Tab S is gaudy to me
- Note has S-Pen related apps/functions (e.g., action memo, pen window). But, I never found much use for those though.
Performance-wise, the two are about the same. By my standards, both are very fast. The Tab S is just a tad smoother. I don't notice any of the browsing lag some others have complained about.
...and when I found out that some of those s-pen related apps e.g S -Note, were available for download onto the tab s, I was you even more convinced that I had made right decision to get rid of my Note 10.1
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
No Wacom, what is the point having S-pen app?
You can use a stylus with the Tab S. You just need to provide some sort of Palm rejection when writing. A simple cleaning cloth will do. Not as good as a Wacom Stylus but for simple note taking workable.
What we really need is a good aftermarket Bluetooth stylus but so far the available models work with Apple (grrrr) only.
Bluetooth still will not be as good as Wacom and kills battery.
Just going to wait for Note 10.1 2015 model with AMOLED and WACOM.
mitchellvii said:
You can use a stylus with the Tab S.
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Click to collapse
You can drive a Camry off-road, it doesn't mean you'd want to. Using a stylus on a standard conductive display, even an iPad's, is painful. It's not the lack of palm rejection, it's the lack of detail, sensitivity, and precision. I'm not selling people on Note's per se, but unless you're making short, and I mean short, hand written notes and lists trying to use a conductive display in the same way as a Note will be pure frustration.
Now let’s check out the Note 10.1’s trump card: its S Pen. The S Pen is, when you get right down to it, a Wacom stylus and digitizer. Considering Wacom make the best graphics tablets in the world bar none (like the*Intuos 5, for one) that’s a very good thing.
Samsung is the first manufacturer to integrate this tech into an Android tablet – both the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet and HTC Flyer used N-Trig pens that were lumpy, required batteries, didn’t offer as many pressure levels and weren’t nearly as responsive, nor did they give you a choice of nibs.
Now for those who might say: “but the iPad has plenty of styli available for it, what makes this special?”, here’s the deal. With one exception, all the styli you can get for the iPad and every other capacitive tablet are only a minor improvement over using your finger. There’s only one capacitive stylus that gives a thin point, and it doesn’t offer pressure sensitivity or palm rejection.
With the S Pen - and other Wacom digitizers as found on the likes of the Samsung Series 7 Slate – you get 1,024 levels of pressure, which lets you draw weighted lines as you would with a real pencil. You get palm/finger rejection, which means you’ll rarely draw an accidental line with your hand. Basically, it’s akin to upgrading from using a chalk to an art pencil.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsu...w_s-pen-performance-and-video-playback_Page-4
@ BarryH, You can pick up more chicks with a Porsche but a 72 Pinto beats walking to work.
Wasn't trying to answer "should you" but more "could you". But seriously, if you want a tablet for notetaking, I would go with a Windows variety due to the OneNote full handwriting support. Sharp was supposed to release a 10.1 Windows tablet with the same resolution as the Tab S (not amoled) but appears to have been vaporware.
Sadly now that I have owned an amoled tablet I am spoiled forever. My Tab S is purely an entertainment toy. I use my Acer R7 for any handwriting (although that is far more rare than I imagined it would be - typing is just better).
Do you think if your Tab S was Wacom, would it be good enough to replace your Acer?
I have an ageing Thinkpad X200 Tablet, but I still can not find any good candidate to replace it. The only laptop I found good enough to replace the X200T is Fujitsu tablets, but they are so expensive.
WHat would you do?
I currently own a Note 10.1 (2014), and the screen has been cracked for about 6 months. Now the screen is not responding to a finger touch (although the stylus still works). I am told that there is a dual digitizer in the device, and the one which responds to the finger is dead.
Although the device is still technically under warantee, Samsung will reject the work because the screen is cracked.
SO... and the reason I am posting here specifically
Do I pay $280 to get my Note 10.1 repaired, or do I go buy an S 10.5?
I do like the stylus for some features, but have found a BT keyboard to be a faster interface for notes
Thoughts?
GO!
I personally think that unless you find the stylus useful, the Tab S has the better screen by far. If the screen of the note doesn't bother you, though, it may very well be worth simply getting the repair instead of shelling out more for a new tablet.
Not that I ever avoid getting new toys.
Sent from my Galaxy S5