Develop Bugs

Helping Others

Just a message to say, that at one POINT we all were noobs at one time, what’s the since of these forums if you can’t find help here? Hell, some of the noobs (including me) may have went thru something that the old timers haven’t been thru, so I see it as any problem is good info to someone. I went thru this power struggle back in the BBS days…arg, I helped crack games and progs, ie INC and Razor911, and so on, and there were a bunch of hot heads with attitudes. I for one cherish the forums for info. But I continuously see people slam others for their lack of knowledge. Others need to realize that a problem to someone is a fix to another. MY OPINION ONLY! Should be a thread for one thing only, IF YOU BRICKED YOUR PHONE, post it here, with what and how, that will answer most of these questions, so the more experienced users can either shine or move along.

TheAxman said:
Just a message to say, that at one POINT we all were noobs at one time, what’s the since of these forums if you can’t find help here? Hell, some of the noobs (including me) may have went thru something that the old timers haven’t been thru, so I see it as any problem is good info to someone. I went thru this power struggle back in the BBS days…arg, I helped crack games and progs, ie INC and Razor911, and so on, and there were a bunch of hot heads with attitudes. I for one cherish the forums for info. But I continuously see people slam others for their lack of knowledge. Others need to realize that a problem to someone is a fix to another. MY OPINION ONLY! Should be a thread for one thing only, IF YOU BRICKED YOUR PHONE, post it here, with what and how, that will answer most of these questions, so the more experienced users can either shine or move along.
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Im the same way. I always will try to answer a question if i have a clue about it. I have gotten slammed before too just for asking questions but oh well. Every one is different, we aren't all the same.

Its a double side sword man I wouldn't flame someone but unfortunately some other people refuse to help themselves. They want answers spoon fed to them I try to search as much as I can before posting a problem and if there is a thread related to it I ask there first as well. Then you also have people posting in dev sections for request and questions because they will get more people to view their threads.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

ebatr8 said:
Its a double side sword man I wouldn't flame someone but unfortunately some other people refuse to help themselves. They want answers spoon fed to them I try to search as much as I can before posting a problem and if there is a thread related to it I ask there first as well. Then you also have people posting in dev sections for request and questions because they will get more people to view their threads.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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Half the people who get flamed dont read threads dont read how to flash or root phones properly then when they screw up they want their hand held and someone to coddle them and say its ok, waste of time tbh

Crisis - FYI if you are the second person to post in a forum thread there is absolutely no reason to quote the whole first post.

dkmdlb said:
Crisis - FYI if you are the second person to post in a forum thread there is absolutely no reason to quote the whole first post.
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Got em again coach! Lol
This has and will always be a picky subject. Can't win em all but if you know the knowledge just lead them the right way.
Sent from my SGH-T999

chrisram88 said:
Got em again coach! Lol
This has and will always be a picky subject. Can't win em all but if you know the knowledge just lead them the right way.
Sent from my SGH-T999
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All the knowledge is already here, people just want others to find it for them and that's when the dookie hits the fan. Most users lurked and learned before even making accounts or pointless threads. I have been here since Cyanogen put out his 1st mod for the G1 and didn't make an account til a year after I had learned how to follow directions and search for answers.

ebatr8 said:
Its a double side sword man I wouldn't flame someone but unfortunately some other people refuse to help themselves. They want answers spoon fed to them I try to search as much as I can before posting a problem and if there is a thread related to it I ask there first as well. Then you also have people posting in dev sections for request and questions because they will get more people to view their threads.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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I agree, but you can tell the non-readers, like you said posting in the wrong forum would be one of them, but I saw a guy get ripped for asking a simple question about what mods work with what...just rubbed me the wrong way.

KillaHurtz said:
All the knowledge is already here, people just want others to find it for them and that's when the dookie hits the fan. Most users lurked and learned before even making accounts or pointless threads. I have been here since Cyanogen put out his 1st mod for the G1 and didn't make an account til a year after I had learned how to follow directions and search for answers.
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Agreed. I did not want to start a war, but the reply the guy got was a bunch of shi*** and were long posts about not the problem, but how he was a noob. If the person wants to rag another, don't write a 100 word post on the issue of noob, or don't post at all.

KillaHurtz said:
All the knowledge is already here, people just want others to find it for them and that's when the dookie hits the fan. Most users lurked and learned before even making accounts or pointless threads. I have been here since Cyanogen put out his 1st mod for the G1 and didn't make an account til a year after I had learned how to follow directions and search for answers.
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A great example of this is the G2x forums... The noobish questions are one after another. Same dam questing anx that's why people get irritated.
Sent from my SGH-T999

For me personally I don't mind the flaming for the people that do stupid crap lol. Then again I also come from clubrsx which is a car forum with much more grown up people. Usually stupid questions there and noobs who do stupid things are met with incredibly funny and harsh flaming lol . On a more serious note we will always have flaming and always have silly threads because we just will noobs will never read or try to be self sufficient no matter how big the bold letters might be telling them to. I do commend the people that search first and do try to find there own answers before asking for help I've had some users pm me asking for help with stuff I totally don't mind helping someone out but I'm use to everyone I know asking me to help root and mod their phones.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

ebatr8 said:
On a more serious note we will always have flaming and always have silly threads because we just will noobs will never read or try to be self sufficient no matter how big the bold letters might be telling them to. I do commend the people that search first and do try to find there own answers before asking for help I've had some users pm me asking for help with stuff I totally don't mind helping someone out but I'm use to everyone I know asking me to help root and mod their phones.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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well if I see that they have 1 or so post, I see them at first legit questions, then, see them again post somewhere else asking stupid questions again, that would be considered to be those lazy as*** that you guys are referring to, humm, you guys have been here a long time, and seen alot, so I will keep the crap to myself. Sorry guys for bringing it up.

Dear Xda - I asked for help and all I got was a snide remark back. really classy.

Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)

alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
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If you can pm me I will try to help you with your phone.. Ok

XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair

KidCarter93 said:
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
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It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.

ronnie498 said:
If you can pm me I will try to you with your phone..
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Thank you kind sir, I will indeed take you up on that when i have the time - currently moving the next few days.

alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
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I can totally understand that, but we were all noobs at one point or another. Even now, I have noob moments from time to time.
But a lot of people around XDA will get annoyed by new users for the simple fact that the majority of the time, they won't search for an answer. They'll simply post a thread wherever they can and expect an answer to be handed to them.
Hence why we suggest that people spend the time to read the stickied threads in the 'About xda', 'General', and their device specific forums.
These stickies will include most of the information a user may need about there device or about XDA in general.
If after reading them and searching, if an answer has still not been found then create a thread and let people know exactly what you've done to find an answer. If other users can tell you actually have searched, then they'll be more willing to help you.
If any of that seemed condescending, I apologize, but I'm not aware of what knowledge you have regarding these forums.
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair

Are you serious you posted a question, got smart with the first person who responded and now your complaining none will help. Sorry to not be constructive help but being the "noob" you say you are, I would drop the attitude if you expect much help in the future. Most will tell you to read first because all your questions have been asked and answered before. Your device is not new and xda has a wealth of information on it. All you have to do is your homework and read.
my advise to you is to lose the attitude, be patient and
read, read, read
Edit.
I can only assume on the actual model of your gs2 because of lack of info but
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22904907 this only took a few seconds to find
Tapped from my e4gt blazing with the tweaked blu kuban V0.1.3

After reading the post you made to trigger this, it appears to me that you expected XDA to work like an IRC channel where you would essentially be having a near real time conversation with a support tech. As you are no doubt aware now, it doesn't work like that. XDA members are spread around the world and it may take a few hours for someone to reply. It is best to give all important details to get the best answers.
BTW, if you are going to "quote" someone as you did in the first post, it is advisable to put exactly what they did say within the quotes rather than paraphrase as you did.
"nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with"
does not equal
"No body will reply if you dont say what you want htere are a billion things you can do so tell what the problem is"
See the difference?

Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

anasdcool71 said:
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
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Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.

I don't see an issue.
Local knowledge of the forum by reading would show you need to know more about the phone than just the software version.
Reading past examples would probably show this.
Searching will also usually reveal a working root method stickied on the development forum

alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
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alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
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Honestly, you got what was coming to you and frankly you deserved it. Judging by the second quote here I can tell that you really don't understand the purpose of XDA and as such losing you really won't be a loss. You seem also to be a generally unpleasant person by the way you intentionally misquoted the people in your thread, and the fact that you expected this to be some sort of help service. You didn't search before posting (I'm sure there are thousands of guides out there) and you definitely didn't provide enough information. You say 'I need help with rooting' - well what specific part of the process? And if you just want a guide, then why not follow an already existing one? If you're following an already existing guide and the OP is open to questions, why not just ask there rather than creating a new thread? One more thing you didn't account for before replying like a douche to the person who answered to is the fact that he's from Ghana and the likelihood is that English is not his primary language. Google translate never works well.

One way i can understand the OP's frustration with the way some members respond to newcomers. But you will not win any sympathy with the way you have responded, specially with the wording in this thread regarding how you expect XDA to serve you. I am all for helping people and getting them started in there android journey. But at the same time i am not happy to help someone only for them to keep asking constant questions specially after i helped them out and pointing them to were to read.
and another thing. rather than complaining in a thread were basically you are using foul language you could of just reported any issues you faced.
anyways hope you change your mind about XDA and give this place a chance cause once you get started you will get addicted to it. all the best
and no offense checking your date since you started here it seems that you have been here a while. so for someone who has been here a while but not posted much i would still have expected you to realize by now how XDA works....anyways if you need any hand with anything just let me know via PM and i see if i can help you out with any issues you may have

I agree with the others. You really overreacted and seem to have an attitude. There was nothing wrong with the post your linked to and like someone else said, it was wrong to paraphrase it the way you did. It was not the least bit harsh. The other day in the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 section someone told me to "shut up and f*** off". Now that's harsh. The response you got? Not at all. He was trying to tell you you need to provide more details that's all.

Alright, i am one of those people that seem to get on your nerves.
I'll tell you why, because there is a big and clear search button on your face in every page, you learned about it when registering and watching the registration video, and still refused to use it.
You asked a question that 2 million people asked before you, and still want members to waste their time and answer you AGAIN.
Use the search button = be happy.
Until then, don't expect everyone to be nice.

G L Reply
You never know. Each forum has its own set of good members, bad members, and downright annoying ones. If your device's forum has an excess of "downright annoying", there's not a whole lot you can do beside a) using a different website or b) crossing your fingers that you'll never have device specific questions.
It almost creates a whole new dimension on "device buying factors" :laugh:. You might wind up with a device whose XDA DEVELOPERS subforum is full of jerks. Thankfully, I got my questions answered before they tried to ban my account because they didn't like me, lol.
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's not a whole lot of advice I can give you on this other than "Good Luck".
- 2B

Unfortunately on the Internets, people can be jerks. The best thin you can do is ignore trolls and try to do as much research on your own as you can so that you sound like you've tried before asking for help. Nothing seems to bate a troll more than asking (what they consider to be) stupid/noob questions. I'm not saying it's right, just saying you can help avoid it yourself since you can't control other people.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but flaming the board to others essentially badmouths an entire community based on a small group's actions.

To the OP I understand completely and like someone said, people normally will live in different time zones. With that said it will usually take hours to respond with a answer..
For my nexus root, I asked questions before hand to Tiny* a great kernel dev who helped the droid incredible community. He had a nexus. Although his into was vague I went to the nexus forums and went to the toolkit/root area "Mskip" and asked some questions, they weren't actually answered and left me with the reaction as "okay, this community is actually stuck up".
So then from there I searched various YouTube videos and eventually found out using a toolkit is bad, I was about to use it. So I researched some more and eventually found a steady great adb guide.
I rooted without hassle and astonished after rooting and seeing some comments to others wanting to root. J
Just answer his question and don't be a jerk.. remember you were once in his shoes at one time. Each person wanting root I recommend adb root and give them the guide.
There is no reason to act snotty to others wanting help.
There is even a better way to help others "Team viewer" as this will help anyone not familiar with rooting or just don't know what to do.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Nope. Haven't Seen That.
mf2112 said:
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
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As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.

khruska said:
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
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+1
You can't be as noob as i was when i first joined. I knew literally nothing about android. Big diff from some of the noobs now? I joined xda to LEARN. Now i at least know java (which is a start). I can't make a rom from source (yet) but i'm getting there (still a long way though). Problem is a lot of new members join to ask questions that's been answered a dozen times before... and that's sad.
I do try to help out when i can, but lately i find myself reporting threads than actually answering the op's questions...
It's really not that hard to search (unless you'e on the app - if you are then you're probably screwed ).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app

What is your patience level for newbie-esque questions?

You know, newbies (like I myself am quite often) who ask dumb questions that can be easily answered with a five second google search.
Sometimes we get confused and ask questions that should be easily answered.
Sometimes we're just lazy or frustrated and ask instead of search.
Sometimes we're on our phones and searching is a PITA compared to just asking.
I get a little "short" with these questions, even though I too behave like a newb sometimes.
I try to be patient, but sometimes I come across as sarcastic in my replies.
I guess I have a low patience level then. I need to be better with my replies.
What about you?
Let's try to keep this conversation as constructive/friendly as possible. :good:

Meh, I have patience. But on this site, there's to many chiefs and not enough indians. I'm so sick and tired of people with responses like "use the search bar man" or "why don't you read the thread" those answers are just as dumb as the dumb questions and also "spam" dev threads.
I've always had the mentality that there's no such thing as a stupid question.
People have always and always will ask questions without doing searches....it will never change.
So don't be an ass when you see "stupid questions" its not hurting you in any way and just help the damn people.
Sent from my SGH-I747M

I guess I'm torn. I'm a new who knows nothing about code or programing but I also realize that its a dev site. The extra noobs here help spread the devs work to more people than they would have had use their work before. The easy to find solutions questions will happen.
I realize the dumb questions happen but I do my best to realize if someone tried sincerely to find a solution.
Zelendel's off quoted post makes sense when it comes to how we are viewed when we need help.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

I try to help to the best of my ability with as much patience as possible. However, if I search and find it within seconds, I may come off as a little rude, and usually start the post with "please remember to use the search bar in the future. I found the answer within seconds....." and then below that I answer their questions. =p
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

questions
I understand that XDA is primarily intended as a development site, but I think things often get taken too far. I have been on XDA for about 3 years since before rooting my first Android phone. This, in fact, is about my fourth post. I am still locked out from posting in the Development forums. I do read several almost daily.
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.

I don't have any tolerance..
This is a DO AT YOUR OWN RISK website
A DEVELOPMENT website.
Its OK to be informative when the other person knows exactly what they are doing.
But to walk somebody every step of the way in my point of view its unnecessary. Devs don't have any responsibility over what happens to your phone. Nor do they need to do everything possible to make your phone work. I can cook a ROM and post it in the dev thread and say "absolutely nothing works but phone calls." I have no obligation to fix anything or make anything happen. Its a piece of work I chose to develop and share with other who are experienced and know what they are doing. Most problems, I'd say 90% of them, from a "stable" ROM come from the users end. Its is a persons duty as an individual to know what you got yourself into and to figure out a way to fix it. A lot of people still don't comprehend that.
I also have no tolerance into trying to turn XDA into a "social network" If you keep in touch with other members here outside of XDA then that's cool, but this needs to stay a development site...
I hate seeing the whole "I flashed this now my phone isn't working." My answer is always the same "Good, that way you learn." We all don't use the search bar or bother to use Google. Its a bad habit, specially on this site, but we all do it. But reading an OP should be the least thing anyone should do.. Most questions that are being asked are answered in the OP. And if you don't have the time to read a couple pages into a ROM thread, you shouldn't be flashing or messing with anything at all.
Once again I'll say, this is a do at your own risk. Its exactly why you get disclaimers in the OP of a rom.No one is going to hold your hand when you brick your phone.
Read read read and if you question yourself about modifying your phone, don't do it lol phones come with an already stable firmware on them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Rick-SG3 said:
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.
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The devs on here DO NOT have an obligation to anyone. Many build a rom for their own use and choose to share it. Others are out to achieve the perfect rom for their own use. For this reason some entertain problems while others will not. They do not have to help you if they choose not to. Many times, the question or problem presented has been asked and answered more than once, but rather than take the time to do a search and read a little, people want to have the answer handed to them. Welcome to a place where each individual is responsible for their own actions!
For the reason of questions, that is why XDA created Q&A. The developer threads are for developing and feedback (which is at the OP's discretion to act upon), not to answer questions you have. As far as overwhelming, this is why each section in XDA has the ability to do a search within...so you can narrow down the options.

[Q] (READ PLEASE) Why is everyone a big DOOOSSHH?? (yes I know what i did there)

My goodness lol I know a lot about hacking, my phone, roms ,general troubleshooting and a lot of other things and also a lot about forums and the vermin that live in them. I just don't say much because I never was a forum posting guy I'm a do it my self guy. Throwing "NOOB" around to some guy/girl that just wants to know how to operate or troubleshoot his/her galaxy that he paid a great deal for is b.s. I read countless a** hole replies that don't even answer the question, a lot of the answers are just failed attempts to sound like the "cool" sarcastic guy that sits in the back of a remedial math class. I've been coming to xda since I had a g2 (never registered) and slowly and slowly the community is turning from people that would kind of help you to d**ks with a false sense of entitlement that reply with a totally unreasonable response. Yeah it's common knowledge to a lot of people but some people really don't know what they are doing and don't want a brick and need the help of this lovely community. I'm not ranting its just my opinion on whats CLEARLY going on if you don't like it f*** off and go fly a kite.
I do not support smart guys who constantly ask eta questions though.

The problem I see is that, as you say, these people don't know what they're doing and want the information handed to them.
I've never seen a post get a BAD response when the person clearly outlined their problem and explained what they already knew and why their research wasn't getting them anywhere.
The people that DON'T make posts like that need to do some research - not just have the information thrown at them for their own good. Think about if you just gave someone information on how to build and operate a bomb without them knowing how it worked and how to do it safely. Sure, they're probably not going to lose fingers - but they could brick an expensive device and it's kinder to give some tough love and pointing in the direction of research, knowledge, and understanding before they make a mess that they can't get out of.
In the words of H.P. Lovecraft : "Do not call up that which you can not put down".

Yeah I know what your saying and I agree. Just that some people ask questions live what boxes should I check in Odin, whats a zip lol, should I wipe b4 or after, what original dev, how do I root. Those a simple questions and they are common knowledge to a lot (maybe not how do I root because many things can go wrong if you derp it up). These can get simple responses or links but ppl will post turd responses like noon read the op, we answers that in 2011 look it up, just don't root. Stuff like that I'm not saying go in to depth with a dude asking about something when he doesn't ever know the dos, don'ts and risk. I know I'm not the only one there's threads about it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 who wishes it was red and not American.

I agree 100%. The thing that irritates the F out of me is the few that run around here acting like they know it all... Then ***** and say search, then like each others post for being asshats to someone who asked a simple question that deserved a simple answer. I do occasionally call them out but it doesn't do any good.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Lol yeah one guy asked does any one know where I can find the inverted YouTube I'm new.. A did responded Noob you'll find it in a different section. Thank me for the help.
Then a civilized guy posted a link to the apk (which is simple to find for the average user) and said to the guy above something like I think this is what you meant to do but the xda douche in you did not allow it.
Sent from my SGH-T999

Because they think they are cool when in reality they are more noobish than the person they are replying to. There's a simple if you don't have anything good to say dont say nothing at all...but I guess their mamas didn't teach them that common sense.
For some reason they rather reply being a total dipsh*t than simply IGNORE the post. Don't get me wrong some of the replies Realy are deserving like the ones when the person constantly whines about their problem and want to b*tch aT the dev...most of the time noobs...such as my self just want simply answered because we've search and couldn't find the answers or we found an answers but it pertains to another device.
They probably didn't get much love from high school so wants to be the cool jogs here
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

From the moderator
To all in this thread.......
Most of the moderators would appreciate it if everyone were considerate, kind and patient........BUT......... that said,
Some do act with arrogance and inconsideration, ......report them we are here to assist.
Understand that the important responsibilities of a member is to Read enough that they can understand what to ask and how to ask it.
One of the overriding problems with XDA is we (the members) are not from one country, or one culture..so, many have to use Google translator or some other method to post in in English.
This creates an additional layer of misunderstanding, which in turn, makes things even more complicated.
Couple all of this with have a bunch of adolescent kids posting as well..... and now you have described XDA.......
So, with this explanation......it basically means to be patient, polite and considerate and when others begin to troll, or flame report them, this keeps these inconsiderates participation to a minimum
Unfortunately, this is thread is way to prone to escalating a flame-war....
Thank you for posting and "venting" off some of the common frustration we all feel from time to time....
...........THREAD CLOSED..........
~~~ oka1

There is also the thread below that you can link people to regarding their posting attitudes.
Posting Etiquette - Don't Anger a Developer

A proposal for the XDA community to consider.

I'll get straight to the point.
The nature of our Development Forums on XDA have changed dramatically since the G1 days and unfortunatly its a change for the worst, its hitting in my opinion rock bottom with less and less people willing to contribute. Back when Android was born and XDA opened its doors to us G1 users we were all there for one reason. To LEARN!
The thirst for knowledge and understanding was exciting and thrilling, being the first to discover something new and letting it be free and available to all who wanted, to strive to break down the barriers that our providers put before us and set us all free! It was to be a complete geek and openly honest a complete rush for me and all of us.
Just writing about it sends a shiver down my spine I so enjoyed it all back then. But todays culture seems to be one of spoon feeding information to people who have no idea what they actually have in there hands, and to be frank would look at me cross eyed if I told them to use terminal emulator to enter a command! Now dont get me wrong I'm no linux expert I'm not even a beginner but I took time to learn terminal commands for Android to help further our community by not asking dumb questions and knowing what a search engine was!
So for my proposal and discussion as a community is.....
Should we allow the developers to HAVE the Developement forums?
We currently have General forums with support threads so basically if your not a developer you simply can't post in there. Lets give the devs somewhere they can talk with other devs and concentrate solely on development and not reading 15,000,000 pages of posts like 'The rom didn't work its rubbish' and replying back to all these people to try and gain some peace to work.
Well I have had my say and I look forward to some serious intelligent debate on this.

How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.

WCCobra said:
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy. Can you build a rom? Do you know your arse from your elbow? And have you heard of google?
If you answer Yes to all three you're probably a dev.
No seriously you are perfectly correct and I understand what you are saying but again why couldn't we have that same discussion/help/suggestion here? Its basically the same and the devs can check in whenever they like as they already have to in their development threads now. We have help threads here that are basically unused because they are cluttering up the devs thread instead. We need to look at encouranging devs to stay and this to me gives them that and a lot more would be achieved I feel.

Perhaps a way for devs to have a open or closed thread.
Like asylum rom. There is discussion thread and a development thread.
Maybe an option to allow only recognised developers or senior members in a thread.
I agree junior members (noobs) are a pain in the ass.
I tought myself mostly by reading threads and figuring things out.... Why can't they? I don't know... I try to play nice though sometimes the stupidity bassles me.
A blacklist option or a "kick ban from thread" option for the dev. If someone is anoying to other members or just clutters the thread this would be a nice implementation for a dev.
Send from my Omega/perseus powered SGN2

Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

adolfo778 said:
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?

I'm no dev. I'm far from it. But I can totally agree with what you say about it being different from the g1 days. I too get a little... Choked up...
I didn't even know what adb ment, let alone how to work it. Took me hours just to figure out and set up.
After rooting and handling updates for all my buddies phones plus my own... I'm a little more comfy. But I can't build a ROM.
There definatley a problem with people not reading. I mean... "Does cam work on this ROM?" Its answered on every page. I've seen it answered 3 posts before the question was asked.
Xda-Etiquette got lost somewhere along the way. Some things are too advanced for new android users. If it was, I didn't touch. New members don't think like that.
Read read read. Post in general or q&a. Don't clutter up dev threads with "thanks" and "help... I brick!".
Learn what a brick is. Lol.You don't have to be the first with s-off when you don't even know what it means. Wait til it becomes easier. Don't lose a device cuz you want to be on the cutting edge but don't even know what fastboot means.
Bs in the other topics. When you click that "android development" button, keep your mouth shut and read. Nothing most of the xda users, myself included, can say would be productive and helpful to devs.
And to end... I still <3 xda.
Sent from my One S using xda app-developers app

DisruptiveMind said:
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
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Click to collapse
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

adolfo778 said:
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again they can! They just do it in here instead when the devs need a laugh. All help and dumb questions can be answered here in the General Forum meaning people would actually be more likely to read at least something of the first post in the Development Forum because its not as daunting knowing there is another 100 pages of posts to read following it.

Did you remember to fastboot flash the boot.img?

Thx for this thread, it always helps to discuss issues if they occur. In any case there is no need for closed dev threads @ XDA, since this would lead to believe we are only developing for our own pleasure. Reality is we all enjoy to push the envelope and share it with other guys in the forum. We all need and want feedback, so it`s not a problem XDA can solve.
All we can do is try to educate users, that we are happy to help them as long as they try to search for answers first either in the thread, on XDA or Google. Users in dev thread need also understand the following:
All custom ROM`s have bugs (so do stock ROM`s)
Not all these bugs are ROM related, in many cases the problem sits in front of the device.
If it`s a real bug, just report it, but don`t be demanding. Most of us just publish stuff here for pure pleasure of sharing and cause we are proud, that we could enhance the user experience with new features.
Users really need to understand, that we don`t have an obligation to update stuff in a certain time frame. We do that in our free time and it`s just a hobby.
Users should especially behave in a friendly manner and be respectful with everyone in the threads.
So bottom line - don`t expect XDA to solve the issues, we as a community must learn to respect each other and understand there`s more important stuff in life then a phone.
Edit: Maybe except the new ONE :laugh::angel::silly:

Well again I find myself saying all that can be done here, I never once said I wanted the Development thread closing or to create a nature of 'building for themselves' we could all still have access and well would need it to download roms so I don't understand where you are coming from on that point. Why do we have a support thread in General if the support is offered in the roms thread?
And to be honest as we need to be I have seen you yourself getting annoyed by the questions that pop up time and time again as has many other devs leading to yet more and more posts about ego wars and the tiredness of answering the same thing again and again and again. Simply let that stuff stay in here otherwise not only is General but Q&A forums seem to be somewhat pointless as no matter how hard you try being nice about it users will never learn. A place where real Developers can go and know the community takes care of the 'silly' stuff, as a developer yourself I would assume you would appreciate not having to spend so much time reading all the pointless posts that appear. You say rightly that you do this as a hobby and in your free time so wouldn't it be better if you knew you had somewhere to get away from it so to speak and spend that time doing work on your rom/s?

The stupid questions are just plain laziness. I'm basically a noob, this is my first android phone and I just got it last October. I can't remember even asking any questions, maybe as couple, literally. I'm usually the one helping out people who have been using android longer than me. In October, I remember having to look up what a kernel even was. Lol. So, yeah, people just have you seriously just read more, but don't just follow steps, try to understand what you are actually doing. Just following steps, you won't learn nothing.
HTC_One_S | Xparent_ICS_Blue_Tapatalk 1.06_Hboot_Downgrade | Root_Box | Bubba_Kernel_2.8b | S-OFF

I don't think things will ever change. There are always going to be lazy, entitled noobs who want to be spoon fed. Changing that I think would be a losing battle. I'm not saying we should encourage them, but fighting and flaming simply won't ever change things. I think we should simply continue helping those who've shown they have no problem making the effort to help themselves and ignore the ones who want everything handed to them.