I am not a big fan of the current separation of Android Development vs Original Android Development. In my opinion we are doing a disservice to the community by splitting the development forums. As a developer, I am not concerned with the status of my own mods or roms. In fact I would rather put my work in the "Unoriginal" forum if only because that forum gets far more views than the other.
As a user of these very same forums, the very split of these two categories bothers me to the point that I find it a laborious task to keep up on new development for our devices. The separation serves to sew dissension among developers who see their hard work being labeled as unoriginal, and makes navigating the forums that much harder for the users.
Now, understand that I don't deny the issue of code plagiarism being a serious one. In fact I think that "kanging" code without credit or permission is a reprehensible act. But to blanket classify all work that was not compiled from source as unoriginal seems unujst. There is a lot of work that is put into modifications to the stock roms that is being labeled unoriginal if only indirectly.
It feels underhanded to me to class a developer's work as unoriginal even if it is simply by refusing to allow it an "Original" tag.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Fenny said:
I am not a big fan of the current separation of Android Development vs Original Android Development. In my opinion we are doing a disservice to the community by splitting the development forums. As a developer, I am not concerned with the status of my own mods or roms. In fact I would rather put my work in the "Unoriginal" forum if only because that forum gets far more views than the other.
As a user of these very same forums, the very split of these two categories bothers me to the point that I find it a laborious task to keep up on new development for our devices. The separation serves to sew dissension among developers who see their hard work being labeled as unoriginal, and makes navigating the forums that much harder for the users.
Now, understand that I don't deny the issue of code plagiarism being a serious one. In fact I think that "kanging" code without credit or permission is a reprehensible act. But to blanket classify all work that was not compiled from source as unoriginal seems unujst. There is a lot of work that is put into modifications to the stock roms that is being labeled unoriginal if only indirectly.
It feels underhanded to me to class a developer's work as unoriginal even if it is simply by refusing to allow it an "Original" tag.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
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I think you misunderstand the context of what is original development. And what is not.
Think of original as 'made from scratch'
Its not to make one guys work seem less worthy than anothers.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
janjannsen99 said:
I think you misunderstand the context of what is original development. And what is not.
Think of original as 'made from scratch'
Its not to make one guys work seem less worthy than anothers.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look at it as making spaghetti sauce. There are those made from scratch with fresh tomatoes, basil, garlic.....etc.
And those that come out of jar but then they are spiced up some more with added ingredients.
OP, you are the one that labeled Development as Unoriginal. It is still labeled Development on my browser.
Original Development is a way to give kudos to developers that are or will be our future ERDs building the code from scratch.
Exactly thus. You will note that it is only by comparison that the work done in the non-original forum called unoriginal. I think that it is the distinction that is detrimental.
I contend that it is often more difficult to reverse engineer and modify an application for which you do not have the source. To give kudos to someone who has ported AOSP from scratch to a device makes sense to me. But it does not make sense not to give kudos to someone who has taken a system application or service, and without any source code for it made a modification to the core functionality of the application or service. I contend that the latter is the more difficult task.
To be clear, I understand the intent of the separation; I am simply relating my perception of the effects of that separation.
I always looked at original dev. As aosp and kernel and reg. Dev as modified stock like sense or touch wiz. So if I am looking to rock a twiz ROM i go to dev and aosp under orig. Dev
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How about "Stock Android Development" to give the distinction, rather than unoriginal as an assumption. By the way, I do not make the connection to unoriginal as you do, I already see it as stock rom and generic modifications that apply to the overall device (such as gaining root, etc.), and Original as source-built. Even though sometimes they spill over, so I just look in two sub-forums, without judging the content by the forum name.
daveid said:
How about "Stock Android Development" to give the distinction, rather than unoriginal as an assumption. By the way, I do not make the connection to unoriginal as you do, I already see it as stock rom and generic modifications that apply to the overall device (such as gaining root, etc.), and Original as source-built. Even though sometimes they spill over, so I just look in two sub-forums, without judging the content by the forum name.
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How bout leaving what isnt broken fixed. The majority is fine with it. And thats that. Jeez
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Related
It seems like there are a dozen new Android phones and tablets coming out every week from unknown manufactures. Most of these are cheap Chinese devices, but they're not all junk, and smaller manufacturers from other countries get thrown into the mix as well. Right now, any discussion of these devices ends up in the Android General forums for lack of a better home. This makes these forums quite crowded with orphaned-device-specific posts, and useful general posts hard to find.
I suggest an new forum section for off-brand or generic devices. This section should have four sub-forums: phone general, tablet general, phone development, and tablet development. This would give these low-volume devices a home and declutter Android General significantly. It may even cut down on the requests for dedicated forums for obscure devices.
Not a bad idea actually. I like it, though not sure what the admin will think. I've suggested your idea to them and linked here, so we'll see what they say
Yea, I'm going to go ahead and throw my support behind this as well. Considering there's a new Android device released every week, it seems prudent to give those few users a spot to call there own.
I also support this, especially since I'm unable to afford larger-brand products, so I own a Coby MID1125 Kyros tablet and would love for there to be space specifically for it.
Thrade said:
I own a Coby MID1125 Kyros tablet and would love for there to be space specifically for it.
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Click to collapse
Just to clarify, it would be a space for your Coby and other low-volume devices as well. It should be easier for you to find coby-specific posts there though.
Nice idea. If there were any type of voting going on then I'd be raising my hand straight away. This would surely benefit both the users without specific forums and the general lurkers, like myself.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Support cost-effective products
This is a great idea, many "off-brand" or "cost-effective" device development ends up in the Android OS fora scattered randomly.
this would be a great organizational addition for future posts and back-cleaning other forums.
XDA has always been a developers forum. We add devices depending on the amount of development and how good the device is. We don't support Chinese knock devices at all as they are not official devices with official firmware versions. Half the time a Chinese knock off will state it has certain hardware and it really doesn't. Remember only recently have we even added non HTC devices.
Well the admin thought this was a good idea and will be implemented in a day or so
The overall atmosphere on XDA in the forums especially in the development areas for the phones is deteriorating rapidly.
I realize that there are some young people working with ROM's ect but there needs to be a stronger basic criteria for adding builds here.
Fly by night 1 version roms that are riddled with problems seems to be getting worse.
I work with professional software developers all day and most of them come in here, look around and simply don't bother. Whether it's because people call there roms godlike or have 17 different characters in the title. Or faqs that includes references to known issues that you then have to go track down. To threads that basically regurgitate nonsense.
XDA should be somewhat more professional in many areas I think and that starts with heavier moderation. I hope to see that in the future.
If you see something that you think needs moderator intervention then you should use the report button to bring it to their attention. The mods here do do a very good job, but they can't be in all places at all times. They need the help of vigilant members like yourself to keep things in order.
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Unfortunately people would just complain...
I'd love to see posting of builds restricted to those competent and experienced, with good reputation externally... But then we will just get 200 screaming children who want their stupid kang theme rom...
It's not a battle we can win.
This may be long, but this pretty much sums up the issue on dev vs dev, members vs members. This is created for people who has a keen understanding of rules, regulations, etc. Therefore people without enough reasoning, critical thinking, sorry this is not for you.
The 'Fair Use' Rule:
When Use of Copyrighted Material is Acceptable
In some situations, you may make limited use of another's copyrighted work without asking permission or infringing on the original copyright.
Fair use is the right to use a copyrighted work under certain conditions without permission of the copyright owner. The doctrine helps prevent a rigid application of copyright law that would stifle the very creativity the law is designed to foster. It allows one to use and build upon prior works in a manner that does not unfairly deprive prior copyright owners of the right to control and benefit from their works.
Some factors to know about "Fair Use":
There are five basic factors to keep in mind when deciding whether or not a particular use of an author's work is a fair use:
Factor 1: Are You Creating Something New or Just Copying?
(the purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes)
The purpose and character of your intended use of the material involved is the single most important factor in determining whether a use is a fair use. The question to ask here is whether you are merely copying someone else's work verbatim or instead using it to help create something new.
One important consideration is whether the use in question advances a socially beneficial activity like those listed in the statute: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. Other important considerations are whether the use is commercial or noncommercial and whether the use is “transformative.”
Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are profit making.
Ask yourself:
Is the copyrighted material published or unpublished?
(Unpublished works have traditionally been accorded stronger copyright protection than published works.)
If you publish your work here at xda-developers.com, your work may lean towards to the "fair use" clause.
Is the copyrighted material factual in nature or creative?
(More fair use latitude is accorded to factual works.)
Factual works eg. scripts, mods, etc.; Creative may incorporate themes, graphics, wallpapers, bootanimation, etc.
Is the copyrighted material readily available for purchase?
(The fact that a work is unavailable for purchase through normal channels will favor fair use copying for educational purposes, though this may be mitigated if permission to copy may readily be purchased.)
This won't be an issue since custom roms are not for sale nor it is on monetary pursuit.
Factor 2: Are Your Competing With the Source You're Copying From?
(the nature of the copyrighted work)
Without consent, you ordinarily cannot use another person's protected expression in a way that impairs (or even potentially impairs) the market for his or her work. In custom roms, there is no declaration of contest nor any criteria for the "best" rom.
Whether the work is published or unpublished, and how creative the work is, are the two main considerations. Unpublished works are accorded more protection than published ones, as the author has a strong right to determine whether and when his or her work will be made public.
When it comes to fair use, unpublished works are inherently different from published works. Publishing an author/developer's unpublished work before he or she has authorized it infringes upon the author's right to decide when and whether the work will be made public.
Works that are factual and less creative are more susceptible of fair use than imaginative and highly creative works eg. if you use chobits original themes/graphics/bootanimation,etc. may constitute to infringing, but personally I do not mind if someone use my work solely based on factor 1. This is in keeping with the general principle that copyright protects expression rather than ideas or facts.
Factor 3: Giving the Author Credit Doesn't Let You Off the Hook
Some people mistakenly believe that they can use any material as long as they properly give the author credit. Not true. Giving credit and fair use are completely separate concepts. Either you have the right to use another author's material under the fair use rule or you don't. The fact that you attribute the material to the other author doesn't change that.
Credits should be given to the original author of the modifactions eg. Lidroid 14 toggles, EDT tweaks, Spareparts (incorporated in settings), if the custom rom includes these tweaks, ask yourself:
Are these tweaks/mods originally made by the developer?
Does the original developer reserves the rights for these mods?
Is the developer of these modifications, explicitly made it for public use or doesnt mind if someone else port it to their projects?
Factor 4: The More You Take, the Less Fair Your Use Is Likely to Be
(the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole)
The more material you take, the less likely it is that your use will be a fair use. Contrary to what many people believe, there is no absolute word (scripts) limit on fair use. This is certainly a grey area for rom developers, since no one can dominantly own a sytemui.apk,framework-res.apk, etc. Developer's mod made on those files may constitute to "fair use" since Samsung, HTC, etc. do not mind modifying their base roms. Therefore modifications made on those files should be attributed if its factual or creative underlying factors 1-5.
Courts have taken both a quantitative and a qualitative approach in assessing the impact on the fair use analysis of the amount and substantiality of the portion used. What percentage of the original work has been used? There are no bright lines, but the higher the percentage, the more likely this factor is to weigh against fair use. If you use the systemui, framework, lidroid, phone of other roms it is definitely okay since the gravity of those files does not weigh out the rom's build entirely.
Ask yourself:
How much of the copyrighted work is being copied?
(did you start from fresh stock rom, deodexed it and then copy snippets of files from other roms?)
How long is the portion copied and what percentage of the work does it represent?
(The smaller the portion, the more likely the copying will qualify as fair use.)
Is the portion copied the “heart” of the work?
(Even a quantitatively small portion of a work may weigh against fair use if it is the most important or commercially valuable part of it.)
Is the amount copied limited to that which is necessary for the educational purpose to which it is being put?
(You should copy no more than is necessary for the educational/testing/sharing "without profit" purpose.)
Factor 5: Is there any adverse effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work?
The more important the material is to the original work, the less likely your use of it will be considered a fair use. Does copying spareparts modification, lidroid 14 toggles, etc. is "very" important for a rom's integrity/usableness? Will the rom still work without those modifications?
Use that adversely affects the market for the copyrighted work is less likely to be a fair use. This ties back to the first factor, and the question whether the putative fair use supplants or substitutes for the copyrighted work. Is there any market in Rom development? The answer is none. Developers may ask donations voluntarily, since it is not imposed, this is not a basis for any monetary gain nor their own solitary income generating project (most of them have real jobs too!) Therefore this will not constitute any harm in any market; monetarily and financially.
---
In determining whether your intended use of another author's protected work constitutes a fair use, the golden rule:
Take from someone else only what you wouldn't mind someone taking from you.
I respect all developer's for sharing their work, but please ask yourself these questions before lashing out to other members:
Is the modification I have made purely original? (not ported or a derivative of other's work)
Did I share my work in good faith, so that everyone may learn from it?
Am I too stringent of my rules that it affects the Android development community?
Did I even use original graphics/pictures in my rom that can be viewed as highly original and creative?
What really is my purpose on sharing my work here in xda-developers.com?
Being a developer, did I make SGY's community a happy and healthy environment for everyone?
Did I respond to criticisms in a professional and mature manner?
How is my relationship with other developers, taking into account that this is a forum where utmost respect to each other is very important?
Am I in here just for recognition and fame?
---
These post has been made, just for educational purposes only.
You can check this link for in-depth view:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Good one. Should be stickied up for all those newbie rom devs to see.:thumbup:
Sent from heaven!
pretty strong words!
Good read. Completely agree this needs to be a sticky
Well compiled post just like your v2
yes good for new members.......
should be pinned/sticked
Guys tell me if I should do this or not. I have a rom and I want a png file from it.. i hope that doesnt come under copyright stuff..
hell_lock said:
Guys tell me if I should do this or not. I have a rom and I want a png file from it.. i hope that doesnt come under copyright stuff..
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I don't think it comes under copyright stuff...it's just an image...
Sent from heaven!
anasdcool71 said:
I don't think it comes under copyright stuff...it's just an image...
Sent from heaven!
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There are lot of mad people here... I always think twice before posting anything.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda app-developers app
TL,DR
This is a forum & each forum have their R&R,
Talking about copyright & fair use term, many developers also use Google.inc framework (Android) without permission to modify to their own preference ROM's.
Off topic & just an example : China copying Apple (IPhone) and did they get permission from Apple.inc? Yes or No?
So conclusion, each people here got their own style, imagination & wanted to make something better for user/consumer. If u share out your artwork, your design, your talent, surely got people want to surpassed it.
Just my 2cents. :angel:
Don't want to be a douche or anything but no one really gives a crap about copyright, unfortunately it's not only here but on the whole internet and always will be like that. No one respects other people's property especially when its 12yos and their "cool" sgy blogs.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
My friend has business and she modifies online photos to create children workbooks. She has been doing this for 15 yrs and for companies like oxford etc. But there has been no copyright issue till now
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda app-developers app
leongboyz said:
TL,DR
This is a forum & each forum have their R&R,
Talking about copyright & fair use term, many developers also use Google.inc framework (Android) without permission to modify to their own preference ROM's.
Off topic & just an example : China copying Apple (IPhone) and did they get permission from Apple.inc? Yes or No?
So conclusion, each people here got their own style, imagination & wanted to make something better for user/consumer. If u share out your artwork, your design, your talent, surely got people want to surpassed it.
Just my 2cents. :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
maxsan20 said:
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
leongboyz said:
They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maxsan20 said:
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mitko said:
Don't want to be a douche or anything but no one really gives a crap about copyright, unfortunately it's not only here but on the whole internet and always will be like that. No one respects other people's property especially when its 12yos and their "cool" sgy blogs.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
laws are made to maintain peace and order to the society
they should be respected and followed
the law is harsh but the law is the law and we can't do anything about it
android is an open source project and no one could sue you if you modify a rom (lol). however, in developer world we should remember that we have something else. ETHIC and RESPECT. our forum's regulation is made to make sure that we have good development atmosphere while maintain a good relationship among the members. everyone here comes from different country and different culture. we also have different personality and its becomes completely normal if we have different way on treating our works. some devs have several policy to protect his work while some other devs have no restiction or policy when he share his work to community. we can't argue about their policy. just look into positive side:
1. no imposter aka fake dev will dare to copy paste someone's work.
2. no fake dev also means all stuff developed here are really 'developed'. it will guarantee that we'll get only the best.
about the USR issue, creed already said that its ok as long as the rom is really developed. it will be different case if someone only copy paste his rom, add several app, change themes, then suddenly claim that rom as his work. that's stealing and its our community's greatest taboo.
leongboyz said:
They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol creed should be grateful? If he wouldn't have made this rom then we would not be having such good status bar in USR. Evan should be grateful that pratyush created that rom. Sorry to say but I am on creed's side. He has alot of versions of that rom and each with huge number of downloads. He has the most succesful rom in sgy forum and thts becuz his roms have something awesome in it on every release. He is the pioneer of mods in sgy forum and his roms dont need any theming
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda app-developers app
kurotsugi said:
android is an open source project and no one could sue you if you modify a rom (lol). however, in developer world we should remember that we have something else. ETHIC and RESPECT. our forum's regulation is made to make sure that we have good development atmosphere while maintain a good relationship among the members. everyone here comes from different country and different culture. we also have different personality and its becomes completely normal if we have different way on treating our works. some devs have several policy to protect his work while some other devs have no restiction or policy when he share his work to community. we can't argue about their policy. just look into positive side:
1. no imposter aka fake dev will dare to copy paste someone's work.
2. no fake dev also means all stuff developed here are really 'developed'. it will guarantee that we'll get only the best.
about the USR issue, creed already said that its ok as long as the rom is really developed. it will be different case if someone only copy paste his rom, add several app, change themes, then suddenly claim that rom as his work. that's stealing and its our community's greatest taboo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's sums up all & in my view still is not a stealing issue. Just copy, paste + added some MOD from an open source user projects
hell_lock said:
Lol creed should be grateful? If he wouldn't have made this rom then we would not be having such good status bar in USR. Evan should be grateful that pratyush created that rom. Sorry to say but I am on creed's side. He has alot of versions of that rom and each with huge number of downloads. He has the most succesful rom in sgy forum and thts becuz his roms have something awesome in it on every release. He is the pioneer of mods in sgy forum and his roms dont need any theming
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe i should be grateful to u & others forum members that had user their brains, creativeness, guides & contribution on helping Creed to customize a new ROM.
I wanted to bring up a very important topic that seems to be brought up recently. There have been reports that people copy and steal other people's works. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. For one, android is open source and everyone can use it without asking permission. For another, if you are defending your case by saying that it takes hours and days to compile your Rom, then what about those people at HTC and Google who developed the original Roms? They spent years studying and developing Roms. Do you ask permission? You don't. In theory, you should all be banned and discontinued because you didn't ask permission from HTC or Google. Now stop acting like a bunch of Steve Jobs. And while you're at it try and Patent your Rom so other people can't use it. This is probably the reason Android Development will fall and iOS development will rise.
First in before the bashing starts
Sent from a dream.
So...this wasn't so much a "question" as much as a rant.
HTC and Google devs get recognition: they get paid, and they get the experience to put on their resume. Our devs don't. They work for free. For hours. The only recognition they get is here, from the very grateful leechers (of which I am one). I don't think it's too much to ask to just get recognized for that work. Most give permission IF ASKED. If I was in fact one of those devs, someone stealing would completely turn me off from developing. And then where would us leechers be? Cooks are nice and all, but without true devs we would all still be on stock.
This has nothing to do with open source law and everything to do with basic human interaction. This is not law school. This is not a courtroom. This is a place where the generous share with the many, and I hope it stays that way.
I would also like to point out, when people complain about "dev wars" they say that they only "hurt the community." I would guess that in many cases, "hurt the community" is a synonym for "I personally don't get to have my Frankenstein ROM." All the high and mighty lingo doesn't hide that simple fact.
Apologize for my ignorance but I do understand my point. I put it in the Q&A since it did have question on the topic title so I thought the mod would move this post to Q&A anyway. It isn't too much to ask for recognition but there have been some instances in other device thread where it literally becomes a crazy nuclear war with people banning threads if a small piece of code is implemented which is ridiculous especially when that code is not device exclusive or Rom exclusive (or pure coincidence). Thanks for the quick and clarifying and mature response.
Thankfully, I haven't seen that our devs are like that, or that our mods have stood for that kind of behavior. So let's just keep enjoying our lovely Ace ROMs.
Have a read about AOSP License
Basically, while Google prefers everything AOSP related to be open source, anyone implementing Android can choose whether they would like to make their source code publicly available or not.
This is also one reason why OEMs are required to provide the kernel source code to the public (the kernel is under GPL) but not the source code to their ROMs.
The nvidia shield tv, the most powerful android device available, which has root, twrp, and custom roms available, along with tons of support keeps failing to get its own proper forum. The discussion page we currently have is unacceptable. There is tons of people doing development on other sites as well that have no proper place to post it. Please everyone, take a few minutes a day, and request that we get a proper forum added for this device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1660354
I agree. Thank you for taking the time to remind us about this.
More than anything, this device is missing developer support. It seems that a lot of people didnt want to see this happen. Google for one, with the restrictive OS, how easy it could have been to include an option to switch between regular Android and the mode thats been stripped of or had so many classic Android functions hidden. It blows my mind the hdmi blocks, drm, and other capabilities that get removed for the sole purpose of corporate greed. I know I'm not supposed to rant here, so consider this a rally to Nvidia TV owners to let others know how awesome of a device this could be and so hopefully the user/developer base can grow and get some proper treatment from the cable companies and others who refuse to support powerful devices like this
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do other Android TV devices have a proper forum then? Maybe devs would take the device seriously, if XDA took the device seriously. I would understand that argument if it wasn't proven to be untrue with the various other forums that have been created for other tv boxes.
- Nexus Player (Android TV)
- Amazon Fire TV (Fire OS - Even more limited than Android TV)
- Mad Catz Mojo
- Ouya
Just to name a few...
I'm not trying to start a problem. It just seems like we're presented with a different argument ever other day stating why the device doesn't have or deserve a proper forum. Not too long ago, the argument was the lack of interest. Then it was the lack of development, even though we currently have custom AOSP and CyanogenMod ports, Root, TWRP and Ubuntu.
If you search for the device in the device search, you will find not one, but two separate "places" to create topics for this device. One isn't a forum. It's just a list of threads that use the shield-tv tag. If a thread is created here, it will actually post in the Android Development and Hacking > Miscellaneous Android Development forum.
The other is a sub-forum of Android TV and Stick Computers. It isn't a proper forum and it is also buried. The device isn't listed in devdb, so there's no way to add projects.
There is active interest in the device and there are a ton of users. At the moment we're using nVidia's website/forums, but we'd prefer to use XDA. Why not give in to demand? You could make a lot of XDA users happy.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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The joke is on you and I don't care that my response will get on your nerves. You were better off keeping it hush hush than to fail at manipulative excuses.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
@ 1. So just because the shield is tied to a wallsocket and uses an external screen it is not entitled to a forum? That's a rather peculiar argument....?
@ 2. I don't think you understand the Nvidia Shield Android TV, it is just as moddable as any Android device...
And last but certainly not least you claim people don't have interest while we have proved this by the community development for the device so far. BTW the interest in the device might be bigger than you think. For instance on the Nvidia forums there are already over 10k comments in the shield tv subsection, this is over 25% of the shield portable's total comments and over 20% of the shield tablet's total comment. Considering the device is only available for a short period and is only available in the US, this means public interest is huge!
So in other words, please come up with better arguments or just add one device forum, how much harm can it possibly do?
That would be a game changer for this thing.... ... I'm in!!!!!!!!!!
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
didn't know..
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
They have proper forums for the Moto 360! A watch forum??? Give me a break. Android wear is even more restrictive then Android TV!
I think XDA admins have a bug up there arse about Nvidia. Pure and simple. If it was AMD they would already have everything.
Stop defending them.
I too, would like to register my interest for such a forum.
While I am a newcomer, I would like to register my support for this movement too. It would be nice to have singular outlet to use.
zizika said:
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
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XDA is a privately owned, membership based site.... Just to correct you.
And the Admin here decide things like forum sections.
Perhaps they'll add a full section, perhaps not. Getting angry about it isn't going to help at all.
As said, if developers are actually holding back work because of a lack of a full forum, they are only making you guys suffer. Seems a little backwards.
Let's remain respectful everyone, please.
Darth
Forum Moderator
The Nexus Q has it's own forum here and NOT the Nvidia Shield Console? That's just stupid.
zelendel said:
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
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I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing software for proprietary devices. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours" and all the drivers and images are provided on their developer website so.... I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a major shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons. Im surprised
ElwOOd_CbGp said:
I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing proprietary processors. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours". I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons and Im surprised
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And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
zelendel said:
And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
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All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
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loonix said:
All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
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More then you think. Why do you think Qualcomm devices are so popular among modders? Because there is all the proper documentation for working with the chip. Same reason that mediatech and exynos chip are not popular. As for unlocking the bootloader. Heck most oem show you how to do it.
As for CM. I would wish that on my worst enemy.
Now if people want to develop for it then do it. Having a forum or not will not bring more or less development.
I'm amazed that this is even an argument. A forum that generates revenues from page views doesn't want its users to have a place to view one of it's valued devices. Baffling really. Someone definitely is bitter about something. What harm is there in creating a section?