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Hey guys, anyone knows if i have :
2 double AA wif 2700mah each that gives u 5400mah (using energizer energi to go) compared to lithium batt of 5000mah (using sanyo mobile booster double li on batt)
which one would be better at charging our high power consumption PDA eg. HTC touch HD?
It's not just about mAh
It's not just about the mah of the battery; you also have voltages to think about.
I have a good investment in 1.2v nimh batteries - so 2 of those would give me 4000mah if connected in parallel but only provide 1.2v of.... voltage. Then, consider your phone - it probably has a 3.7v lion battery. To get to the same total capacity and voltage, you would need to have 3 batteries connected in series (give you 3.6v or possibly a touch more if really full) to get close to 3.7v at 2000 mah.
I've built external packs for my Creative Nomad Zen (same type of battery, 3.7v 1000mah) using 4 aa batteries (4.8v, 2000mah.) The stock charger was 5v 1000mah, so it was close enough. A bit bulky, but it worked great in the car where I didn't want to buy a charger and already had the batteries. Of course, odd things can happen when the voltage of the "charger" goes below the expected input. As an extender for something USB Chargable, you could probably do the same thing with 4 batteries to simulate a charger and extend your runtime. I'd suggest "aaa" batteries to make the pack smaller.
Do not try this if you have no clue regarding electronics. You can hurt your phone, hurt yourself and light stuff on fire. And not in a cool way.
Sorry bro didnt quite understood ur conclusion here.. Wasnt electronics trained and educated haha. But anyway yah i do understand mah is not the main thing here..
But rather the voltage. So i would suppose a lithium works better at charging high power devices given approximately the same mah specs?
Alright; just so we're clear - your question is regarding whether a lion/cell battery will do better than another chemistry battery when powering a phone?
The real boom is power to weight. Look at a double a battery and compare that to your cell battery. Hold both of them - the lithium ones for a given capacity will be lighter and smaller.
Both could power a device like a cell phone for similar time, given the same capacity.
Hope that helps....
oh thx! that realli helps.. But however with regards to sanyo's website. 2x 2100mah enelop batteries could onli power a cell phone for 70mins. But its lithium 5000mah could power it for 2hrs! Doesnt that conclude that lithium gives more power given the same capacity?
Even same mah Li-ion is better than NiMH due to discharge characteristics. Li batteries lose very little voltage from Topped up to full allowable discharge. So has more usable power for a device that was built for nearly constant voltage like ours.
Hi,
Power Bank caused poor battery life, Wipe Battery Stats.
I thought I share my negative experience about using a power bank / portable phone recharger. I had bought a very cheap 5000mAh power bank from China on eBay. Sorry I no longer have eBay link but what I bought which was advertised as HTC One X compatible and it included a 1A power out USB port.
I charged the power bank and then charged my phone from 50 odd % to 100%. Then again from 37% and it only got as far as mid 50s% and the power bank ran out of juice. Afterwards charging my phone normally would take roughly 2 - 3 hours to charge and although it was showing 100% I would get no more than 5 - 6 hours of battery life. I put up with this for some time and eventually bought and installed a replacement battery which was authentic. I charged my phone and the same thing happened. No more than 6 hours of life. So I thought something had been ruined in my phone.
Anyway I have ViperX on my phone and last night noticed there had been a new version 3.6.1. I was in the ClockworkMod advanced settings to wipe the Dalvik Cache that I saw an option to Wipe the Battery Stats and the battery works perfectly.
Out of curiosity does anyone have any knowledge of what may have occurred with my battery/phone by using the power bank.
Thanks
Adrian.
I have the official HTC Powerbank and haven't noticed strange behavior yet.
What is cheap it doesn't mean that always good quality. First read review from people and read about company.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
PowerBank doesn't efficiently charge your battery, so it can't expect the same output that you get when you charge from a wall charger or a PC... and once you stop using the powerbank, it may take 2-3 battery cycles for the battery to settle down again!
I'm using Ambrane PowerBank (8000mAh) and I must say I'm pretty happy with it!
power banks mess up the percentage reading, I dont really think battery pack can degrade the battery in few charges. The last few percentages could last upto 1 day (it happened on my old android, the phone showed 33% for full day.) this is mainly because cheap power bank, runs at low voltage, and battery percent is measured by voltage.
Well..... With me Rule of Thumb when installing a new Rom or Battery would be to dona full drain then full charge then Wipe Batt Stats.... Every new Rom has a different battery affect on the unit that's why I wipe after an install.... Also don't forget if you install apps.... That could also drain your batteries more than others... I personally don't think it's the power source.. Meaning the power bank..... Weather it's charging at 300mAh or 500mAh or at 1A....100% on your battery is 100% no matter where you're getting the charge from... Kinda like filling up a cup.... Weather you're using a teaspoon or tablespoon or a tap to fill the cup.... When it's full it's full.... Really the only difference in chargers is the more output going to your battery the faster your phone will charge....
That's what leads me to say it's the software being flashed to the phone.... Not all are "battery friendly".... So after flashing.... Do a full charge then wipe the battery stats.....
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Just FYI but i recall reading somewhere (its on here somewhere) from an Android engineer, that the battery stats are automatically wiped on reboot and also when the phone is fully charged, so any effects from manually wiping the stats is more of a placebo.
Unless they've changed it all recently.. It was probably about a year ago that I read about it
Edit: here's the link : https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
lawrence750 said:
Just FYI but i recall reading somewhere (its on here somewhere) from an Android engineer, that the battery stats are automatically wiped on reboot and also when the phone is fully charged, so any effects from manually wiping the stats is more of a placebo.
Unless they've changed it all recently.. It was probably about a year ago that I read about it
Edit: here's the link : https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
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Ok.... Well I'm no engineer.... But I mainly did it going from the stock 1800mAh to the 5000mAh on my Note GT-N7000
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Just asking so is it advisable to use powerbanks? Will it damage the already battered battery that HOX has?
From my experience I would say go ahead.... I use the cheap 20,000mAh power banks from eBay at a cost of $20 and have had no issues... The bank has 2 USB charging ports with outputs of 1 & 2 amps.... I used the 1 amp for my HTC One X & now the 2amp port for my Note 3.... NO issues.... I use the charger bout an hour a day all week and charge the bank once a week....
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda premium
[email protected] said:
From my experience I would say go ahead.... I use the cheap 20,000mAh power banks from eBay at a cost of $20 and have had no issues... The bank has 2 USB charging ports with outputs of 1 & 2 amps.... I used the 1 amp for my HTC One X & now the 2amp port for my Note 3.... NO issues.... I use the charger bout an hour a day all week and charge the bank once a week....
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda premium
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what if am using a wall charger output 2A ?
Salim.Keady said:
what if am using a wall charger output 2A ?
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the phone won't draw 2A so it is fine to use
Thanks
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
power bank
i'd been using a few different power banks, but never noticed any difference in battery life
I would like to ask of you guys if it is safe to use the phone while connected to a power bank or wall charger?
Hello Adrian,
I too faced the same problem. I have charged my Samsung Galaxy Tab T310 with MI portable charger 10400mah. my tablet charged with in 2-3 hours but the battery started draining very very fast. later I came to remember the basic rule of checking the output of the portable charger(2.1Amp) and input required by my tablet(2.0 Amp). I think this variation is resulting in battery drain.
using a power bank
You should buy one good quality power bank
14adrian said:
Hi,
Power Bank caused poor battery life, Wipe Battery Stats.
I thought I share my negative experience about using a power bank / portable phone recharger. I had bought a very cheap 5000mAh power bank from China on eBay. Sorry I no longer have eBay link but what I bought which was advertised as HTC One X compatible and it included a 1A power out USB port.
I charged the power bank and then charged my phone from 50 odd % to 100%. Then again from 37% and it only got as far as mid 50s% and the power bank ran out of juice. Afterwards charging my phone normally would take roughly 2 - 3 hours to charge and although it was showing 100% I would get no more than 5 - 6 hours of battery life. I put up with this for some time and eventually bought and installed a replacement battery which was authentic. I charged my phone and the same thing happened. No more than 6 hours of life. So I thought something had been ruined in my phone.
Anyway I have ViperX on my phone and last night noticed there had been a new version 3.6.1. I was in the ClockworkMod advanced settings to wipe the Dalvik Cache that I saw an option to Wipe the Battery Stats and the battery works perfectly.
Out of curiosity does anyone have any knowledge of what may have occurred with my battery/phone by using the power bank.
Thanks
Adrian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being cheap doesn't mean good quality.
I got a 20000mAh power bank from avantek in amazon after my friend's advice.
it really works and i see no harm to the phone, though a little expensive ($49.99) for me.
Power banks use a charger, or not, to store power in some media (battery, capacitors, etc) internally and can transfer that energy to another item (cell phone, pad, etc) at any time without further muss or fuss.
Portable chargers will require some active source where they are used other than what they carry with them. Connection to a car power port, setting up a solar panel in sunlight, etc. will be required at the time and place of use.
A notable exception to this is the solar chargers DIY types are whipping up these days. They do both things, it would seem. They carry the small solar panel to produce the energy and a small set of rechargeable batteries to capture it for later use. I suppose you would have to classify these as hybrid charger power bank systems.
One carries a power source connection or generation circuit with it only and the other carries a bank of storage devices to draw from at any time.
I hope that this will help you understand the difference better. Good luck!
From my experience with different power banks I can see great difference in them in 3 different ways:
Controllers for power-in
Good quality controller will be able to work with different sources of power (0.5A, 1A, 2A, 3A) and voltages (5V, 9V, 12V - lick Qualcomm QuickCharge 2.0)., will protect agains overcharge & overheat. Cheap controllers may not protect overcharge or overheat - so may cause fire and damage.
Cells
There ma be 2 problems with cells: 1) overstated capacity - often happens on ebay that you get a "10000" mah powerbank which is more close to 4000mAh in reality. 2) Cell Quality - good cell can do 750-1500 full charge-recharge cycles before noticeable degradation of capacity. Bad quality cells will degrade after 50-100 cycles. Also had a battery which started to degrade after just 2-3 weeks.
Controllers for power-out
This part is very important for efficiency rate. Efficiency rate is a figure showing how much real capacity you will get from the powerbank. Why? Powerbank cells will provide you with current between 3.2 - 4.2 Volts. This needs to be converted to 5.0V so that the phone can accept it. Cheap bad quality controllers will loose 30-50% of power just in conversion. Good Quality (and more expensive) will loose 15-20% only.
So as You can see, from manufacturer point of view: if you want to create a dirt cheap battery, you can do it, but at the cost of less safety, less capacity and less final power in the phone. So be careful when buying cheap powerbanks - You will get what You pay for!
Hello,
As the battery can not be removed I am investigating the ways to make it live the long as I can. One is making your daily use long a lot, dissabling wifi, 3g or things you dont use.
The other way, the like I want to discuss here, is how to make proper charges. Actually, LG support two types:
- USB, at 500mA
- Wall charger (the one from LG), at 1200mA as it says.
I have investigated and read the less mA, the better for your battery, altought it takes longer to arrive to 100% charge.
So, the first question that comes to my mind is: when I like to use a wall charger, shouldn't it be better to use another wall charger with less mA? I own a Samsung charges that says 700mA so maybe it could be better to use it.
Do you think is a good idea?
What the best way to charge battery in order to give it a long live? Is it better to always charge it with pc-usb?
Thanks.
Fer
Use the original charger the phone came with.using other chargers,with different specs,may damage the battery on long terms.
Using a charger with lower intensity(700mAh) will charge the battery slower and for a while it will look like the battery will last longer,but in time it will affect the battery.
Using a higher intensity charger(1500 mAh for example),will charge the battery faster,but in time it will also affect the battery.
Best way is to make complete cycles of discharging/charging,avoid using the phone while is charging.
This is for the battery health.
To increase daily battery life,deactivate auto sync,set weather sync to min 1h,turn off fps/data/wi-fi when you don't need them.
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
The battery on the phone is guaranteed for about 850 cycles.so,even if you charge the phone every day,you have more than 2 years warranty for the battery to work on parameters.
Then,why worry that much?
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Because I want my device last more than two years. My last phones last near four years each one. it will be a pitty if I had to forget a good phone only because battery is age-worn.
Given that you propose only charginr with original charger (with make sense to me), what about USB-PC port charge? it is better to use one or the other? both methods are supported by LG and mentioned in the manual, and supposed one of them would be desirable.
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Nope,it's better to avoid charges fom usb.in fact,if you have files to copy to/from pc,after you finish i recommend to plug it out.
And those 850 cycles i mentioned are not the end of the battery.it means the battery will keep it"s properties.in time,it's normal for any electric/electronic component to show signs of fatigue.anyway,2+ years for a battery it's great.technology is evolving.you didn't mention,your last phone you had for 4 years,with same battery?and it was in the same parameters?well,it's hard to believe.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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what is the "scientific" or "logical" reason to prefer the wall charger to usb-pc? I read it before it is better to charge into usb because 500mA are better for battery, less heat altought it takes longer to arrive to 100%.
My SGS last near 4 years, and I mainly I charged it from usb 50% and official charger 50%, and with Llama (and manually) I was very stricted in what features I turn on and off. In fact the battery and the phone is still in use for other person and the battery "looks" like the first use.
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
kimitza said:
Well,it's not empirical,it's science.maybe i don't know how to put it in english that good,but i'll try.
As we all know,the electricity is measured within some parameters : tension(volts),in intensity(amps) and frequency(herz).
In your case,the wall charger provides 5 volts at the intensity of 1200 miliamps per hour.this is the standard value,made by lg for the g battery.if you provide less than half of that specified intensity(500mAh),the battery will charge alot slower,and it will "struggle" to align the electrons onto the battery layers.you shouldn't have a difference higher than 20%.for a period,it will look like the battery will last longer,but in the same time it will lose it's properties faster than the normal charging.
Today,batteries are not simple electric storages,but smart components themselves.if you mess up their function parameters,you will notice it in time.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
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Kimitza, thank you very much for your support. One more question?. What specifications do you recomend for a car charger? (having in mind I don't use the smarthphone in the car, excep for GPS-maps sometimes. Most time I only charged it)
I have seen in the shop there a vary range of car charges that goes from 750mA to 2100mA.
And other one: is it advisable to use the device while charging?
I have an energizer car charger,rated at 1000mAh.
So,anything between 850-1300mAh should be ok.
My advice is not to charge the phone while using it in car,especially as gps,unless you have to.why?let's see,using the gps will cause the phone to heat more than usual.another heating reason,i'm sure you have a car mount sticked to the front glass of the car,exposed to direct sun.add to these 2 reasons the heat created by the charging itself and you will have yourself a veeeery hot optimus g.oh,forgot about the case.if you have one,especially silicon case,you'll end up with a frying pan.
If you can eliminate some of those heating sources,it would be great.
I found a car mount fitting on an AC blow hole.it's handy in the summer time.for winter,i stick my normal mount on front glass.
On long trips i try to avoid using it as gps when i'm on the highway.i use only in cities.
I remove the silicon case to provide extra air.
And,if i use as gps,i don't charge it.i plan my trip in such way i charge the phone while i'm on highway(if needed of course).i never spent that much time in car wondering in major cities to empty my phone.
Only if i really must i charge the phone while using it.
Feel free to follow or not my guide.
But i think it makes sense.
Sent from LG E975 pwd by CM 10.1
I like your advices. I was also asking if you use the phone while in wall-charging??
thanks
Sometimes i do,but,like i said, i try to avoid it. Depending on the activity.
Sometimes i find myself searching for the plug when i'm caught in a game and i want to continue )..
But this phone gave the beste ratio gaming/battery i saw . One day i played 4.5 hrs of Real Racing 3,before charging the phone.So,it's great.
I was so into that game i didn't wanted to end,so yea, i played while charging.Just don't make a habbit out of it .
And sometimes you can't use the phone without charging it....for example,when i play a movie on my 32" tv. The mhl adapter will not work without the phone pluged.
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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but the question was not what current is needed, but what is the ideal current (charging velocity) in order to make battery life last longer. what is your opinion ?
cickvoa said:
V= 5V. Current does not matter, on "charger" is max current. It should be mentioned, that thing we are calling charger is actually an adapter. Charging unit will take needed current, so do not talk stupidity, all of you have no idea about basics of electro-technics
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Click to collapse
Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V). All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh. This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh. Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
Addapter is voltage source. Charging unit is inside mobile phone and it takes amout of current what it needs, ofc has max current limit. When u have voltage source, only way to control current is by resistance that is connected on it. That is.ohms law, basic of electric. Engineers who designed and made charging unit knows their job. Period
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
only voltage?care to do a small experiment?I could provide you a 5v adapter with 10 amps intensity. will you plug it into your phone?Just for the fun of learning?
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in EE, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
cickvoa said:
Yes i would. Because adapter IS VOLTAGE SOURCE, so voltage is constant, and current depends on resistant attached to adapter.
If you would give me CURRENT SOURCE of 10A than I wouldnt connect it, because there is constant current and variable voltage. Pls do not go further, your post shows that this is not your area of knowledge.
Just as notice, Im master if science in electric motor drives and automation, in which these types of adapters which is use for mobile phones is basic of industrial electronic, so......
Edit: your big post shows that you dont understand electrotechnic, when i come home on a computer ill give you detail review of your post and mistakes
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
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Please, also post your opinion about what is the best specifications for "wherever you call it the charger" for prolong battery life. The max A I suppost mark a limit for the phone, if current max is below the ideal charging value the that charger would be worse. Or any charger is OK?
I will im drinking now lol hehe, no prob, just spoke with friend, he has MD in electronics
Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 2
kimitza said:
Well,another specialist.I never mentioned the Voltage,which is the same for almost all mobile devices.I was talking about intensity,this makes the difference. And since you mentioned it, it's not just an adapter,it's more,because this piese of electronic equipment CONVERTS one kind of electricity(alternative current),with some specs(110-220V), to another kind of electricity(dirrect current),with other specs(5V).
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First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
kimitza said:
All this, guess what,to provide enough DC to CHARGE the battery.the standard in mobile industry has been set to 5V on wall chargers and 3.7 V output batteries.
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„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
kimitza said:
These are the most common and used. The difference is made by the capacity of the batteries and the capability of chargers to supply an amount of electric intensity in a period of time. Again, the standard has been set to mAh,which is milliamps per hour. So,to be exact, a charger rated 5v - 1200mAh will provide a 5V current,at 1200 milliamps per hour.
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Click to collapse
Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
kimitza said:
On the other hand,the battery specs say : 3.7 V, 2100 mAh.
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Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
kimitza said:
This means the battery can provide an output current of 3.7V, at the max intensity of 2100mAh.
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Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
kimitza said:
Didn't measured the G max consumption, but i can tell you for sure, the maximum intensity used by my previous Galaxy note was 800 mAh,on some heavy gaming. And this measurement was made in a lab,with proper tools.You can do an estimative measurement home quite easy,but not that accurate,just to have an idea. How?Well, charge the battery to full, then start an app, a game. play that game until the battery is empty,then make a simple math(battery capacity / time) .It's not the most accurate result,but....
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Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
kimitza said:
You said the charging unit will take the needed current,right?Who said something else?I said there are differences in charging times,caused by the ELECTRIC INTENSITY.If you say it doesn't matter,because it's all 5V tension,then i guess i could extrapolate and say Amazon river and a mountain spring it's the same for you,because they both are flowing waters,right?It doesn't matter all other parameters,just the flow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
kimitza said:
I could go more into details and i'm not a specialist.
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Click to collapse
Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
kimitza said:
I just like to know how things are working,just to satisfy my curiosity. I have alot of electronic tools/gadgets, i have my own semi-proffesional soldering station,professional digital multimeter and more. I could say new generation batteries have their own processing unit,making them smart batteries(that's why you can't just exchange batteries from one phone to another,although they have same specs).I could also say Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries are charged by impulses and not real DC.But these are details,and no one here cares about them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
kimitza said:
They just want to know the basics on how to get a better battery life and how to proper use them.
And since we don't know the basics of electro-technics,could you share your vaste knowledge,but without copy-pasting it from wiki?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment sl002.rar
cickvoa said:
First of all, why are you mentioning intensity?
Second, “direct current with 5 V specs“. Man, you got totally wrong there.
„provide enough direct CURRENT … to set to 5 V“. you are doing it again sir, VOLTAGE is measured in VOLTS, CURRENT is measured in AMPERS !!!!!
Second, you must have larger potential form charger to battery, because current wouldn’t flow. Since max battery has 4,2V, it is set to 5V (don’t know why 5, but it is bigger than 4,2)
third, 3,7V is not standard, it is potential difference on Lithiom batteries, as it is 1,5V on CoZn batteries (usual called "Alkaline" or 1,2V on Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries
Standard with mAh is wrong, Wh (watthour) is more correct, but OK, lets go with mAh.
Second, since we are talking about mAh's, mAh is measuring unit for capacity. If you find me charger that can store 1200mAh of capacity good for you (it is called battery, to be precise)
Again, Li-ion cell at full charge is around 4,2 V and „empty“ is around 3,4 V.
Again, totally noob. Sir, V O L T S are for V O L T A G E, A M P E R S are for C U R R E N T, M I L I A M P E R H O U R S are for C A P A C I T Y !!!!!!! If you tell sentence like that to some specialist, he/she would start to LOL to you. If you tell that on some exam, believe me, you wouldn’t pass this year.
Bad sentence… only thing you can measure from battery is voltage and currently current. Other, such as mAh, you can calculate. For ex. If you say that during 1 h of measuring average current was 800mA, than you can say, OK my battery gave me 800mAh. Period. If you want to be more precise, or say it in correct measuring units, that you go like this: “my battery gave me 800mA in 1 h. OK, I have 800mAh. BUT, my battery is rated to 3,7 V (average voltage), than you say OK, capacity of this battery is 800mAh*3,7V=2,96mAhV. Since electric power in DC systems is calculated as P=U*I (in watts), so W=V*A, you say that battery has 2,96Wh of capacity.”
Then you look at battery (my O4X) and look, it is written “2150 mAh/8,2Wh”. LG made this good
Again, volts and stuff, you do not have idea what are you talking about
Yes, I could tell that by reading first few words of your post mister
Correct Liions are charged in impulses. BUT adapter does not provide impulses on its output, it provides 5V (as it is voltage source) and current [0, RATED] A. (those [] means that 0 and rated are included, in case you do not know math too, and that is called interval)
For impules, there is charging unit inside phone.
Wiki...well, you could read it a little, on en.wiki infos are correct, ive checked.
you have some bad attitude. but i understand, attack is the best defence. Enjoy your studying a little and do not embarrass yourself anymore. It is not problem if you do not know, okay, but if you are forcing me, and have no idea abaut basics (such as measuring units), cmon mister. do your homework.
Okay, this is review of your post. I am little hangovered, so if I sound a little uninterested or rough, forgive me
now, lets talk little about basics. Im not in the mood to write equasions and upload some schemes, so ill just put it on paper by hand and upload.
View attachment 2044470
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cickvoa, thank you very much for your contribution, opinion and paper. Very valuable.
Hi guys,
I am looking for a power bank for my HTC 10 . . . I prefer a more compact pack, so far I liked :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-P...015CMTR0E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
&
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-1...00OJXVDAU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Should I go for the bigger capacity or for the QC2 ?
Of course other recommendations are welcomed
Thanks
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
ademmer said:
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a QC 3.0 version. (I've been considering purchasing it.) For now, the prices on Amazon are even the same:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CZV9FUW
deopk said:
Hi guys,
I am looking for a power bank for my HTC 10 . . . I prefer a more compact pack, so far I liked :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-P...015CMTR0E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
&
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-1...00OJXVDAU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Should I go for the bigger capacity or for the QC2 ?
Of course other recommendations are welcomed
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are theoretical bull**** talk and allegations and there's real life usage.. ?
In real life less than true 20Ah is useless.. with 20Ah capacity you'll have up-to probably 3 full charges for modern smartphone like hTc 10..????
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
I've got the OnePlus powerbank, it's 10000mAh and charges very quickly with its 2A port.
Sent from my A0001
I have the RAVPower 16750mAh. Does the job and has 2 ports so the wife could charge her phone at the same time.
My first unit didn't work so it was returned to Amazon for a refund and RAV also shipped a new unit so got it for free
lordred12345 said:
... and charges very quickly with its 2A port.
Sent from my A0001
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, charging from 2A port feels like 19th century experience.. when we're in hTc 10's xda forum..
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
jauhien said:
There are theoretical bull**** talk and allegations and there's real life usage.. ��
In real life less than true 20Ah is useless.. with 20Ah capacity you'll have up-to probably 3 full charges for modern smartphone like hTc 10..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, let's unpack what you said.
Any power bank has rated mah at a specific voltage, mostly around 3.7V.
So for a 10kmah battery we get 10k x 3.7 = 37 watt hours
But the phone will require 5V to charge at a minimum. That means 37/5 = 7.4k mah
Under ideal conditions that is the capacity remaining. There are efficiency losses on top which will reduce that figure.
If its a QC2 charger, then it will charge at 9V. Which works out to 4k mah. remember the efficiency losses again.
So QC2 10kmah battery pack will charge HTC 10 from 0-100 one time and have some left. Or two times 50-100%. If the temperature is not above 32 degrees C it will work well. Above that maybe not so fast.
If its non QC2, make that twice as many times. For something light this can work.
I am thinking that QC2/3 is fine if you are charging from mains, or car charger but comes with a cost if its from a battery pack. A pack that can be quick charged is better than one that cannot be and still better if it does not quick charge the phone.
If its 20Ah, non QC then 74Wh battery or 14.8 mah, after efficicency close to 14k mah.
4 full charges. 5V, upto 2.4A is good.
if its QC2, 2 full charges and change
One Twelve said:
Right, let's unpack what you said.
Any power bank has rated mah at a specific voltage, mostly around 3.7V.
So for a 10kmah battery we get 10k x 3.7 = 37 watt hours
But the phone will require 5V to charge at a minimum. That means 37/5 = 7.4k mah
Under ideal conditions that is the capacity remaining. There are efficiency losses on top which will reduce that figure.
If its a QC2 charger, then it will charge at 9V. Which works out to 4k mah. remember the efficiency losses again.
So QC2 10kmah battery pack will charge HTC 10 from 0-100 one time and have some left. Or two times 50-100%. If the temperature is not above 32 degrees C it will work well. Above that maybe not so fast.
If its non QC2, make that twice as many times. For something light this can work.
I am thinking that QC2/3 is fine if you are charging from mains, or car charger but comes with a cost if its from a battery pack. A pack that can be quick charged is better than one that cannot be and still better if it does not quick charge the phone.
If its 20Ah, non QC then 74Wh battery or 14.8 mah, after efficicency close to 14k mah.
4 full charges. 5V, upto 2.4A is good.
if its QC2, 2 full charges and change
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! It's quite rare in these forums to read someone whose technical knowledge exceeds the Arithmetic..
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
One Twelve said:
Right, let's unpack what you said.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say that 20Ah real life power bank purchased via real retailer and operated thru QC2 technology can charge hTc 10 which has 3 Ah built-in battery - up to 2.5 times in real life (and I know it from experience)..
He said - 2 times in real life (what is very close)
You disagreed and typed a bunch of stuff.. Can you just clearly state "how many times" real life power bank 20 Ah would charge in real life hTc 10 by QC tech..?
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
ademmer said:
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell us how many full charges or the equivalent you can get from the PC+ 10050 ?
It has only one port so you have no choice but to accept QC2.
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, power is power. What @One Twelve said seems wrong. Power banks have lithium ion batteries (18650) so they are in 3.7 volts, lets think about one with 10.000 mah and 3.7 volt, they actually change between 4.2v and 3v but I am going to ignore that. Phone input is 5v and convertion here seems right, 3.7v 10k mA = 5v 7.4k mA . However you are missing a point. Your phone battery is li-poly and it is 3.7 volt as well, so power banks 10k mAh equals to 3 times 3.2k mAh phone battery. There will be bunch of conversions though, firs there is a step up circuit 3.7 to 5 volt on powerbank and then there will be step down inside 5 to 3.7 inside the phone. There will be loss on conversions, also there will be loss on cable and while you are charging your phone will consume some energy too unless it is turned off. Everything included I am able to charge my note 2 2 full times with my 10050 man Xiaomi power bank. I think after 10k mAh it starts beeing inconvenient.
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My source is here
http://www.tp-link.com/en/faq-741.html
As a result of the test thread i used the info of voltage for QC2 and then made the calculation.
One Twelve said:
My source is here
http://www.tp-link.com/en/faq-741.html
As a result of the test thread i used the info of voltage for QC2 and them made the calculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your source seems wrong, what you are charging is 3.7v as well, hence it doesnt make sense to convert mAh value to 5 volts, unless that tplink is charging something exactly 5 volts.
TheMadcapl said:
Your source seems wrong, what you are charging is 3.7v as well, hence it doesnt make sense to convert mAh value to 5 volts, unless that tplink is charging something exactly 5 volts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant charge a phone with less than 5V. Use a usb power meter with any phone and see for yourself.
I find it remarkable that company that also sells power banks would have such an informative faq on setting expectations for their products.
One Twelve said:
You cant charge a phone with less than 5V. Use a usb power meter with any phone and see for yourself.
I find it remarkable that company that also sells power banks would have such an informative faq on setting expectations for their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I explained it detailed in my first post. There would be a step up and then step down conversion, 3.7 -> 5 -> 3.7 . Thus in the end it is same 10k mAh.
TheMadcapl said:
Everything included I am able to charge my note 2 2 full times with my 10050 man Xiaomi power bank. I think after 10k mAh it starts beeing inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I agree with your figure
2 full charges with stated 10k mah with non QC. Plus a little left in the bank.
Not 3 full charges, that is the point. As is being contended below by ro_explorer from 10k mah
What is wrong with the estimation I gave. It gives a figure close to your real life experience
If power is power and 3.7 is stepped to 5v and back down to 3.7, why aren't you getting 3 full charges from your power bank ?
There is no QC2 on the note 2 so its better. Maybe slower but you get more out of it.
What i wonder is how well the power bank can charge when you are using the device. Say you are watching youtube or using GPS. Can your Xiaomi charge more than you consume ?
Is a QC2 power bank really necessary in this case or can one get away with non QC.
ro_explorer said:
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jauhien said:
I say that 20Ah real life power bank purchased via real retailer and operated thru QC2 technology can charge hTc 10 which has 3 Ah built-in battery - up to 2.5 times in real life (and I know it from experience)..
He said - 2 times in real life (what is very close)
You disagreed and typed a bunch of stuff.. Can you just clearly state "how many times" real life power bank 20 Ah would charge in real life hTc 10 by QC tech..?
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A high quality 20mAh power bank should be able to charge the HTC 10, 0-100%, up to 6 times (considering some power loss due to conversion). A QC similar charger will go down in number of charges to probably 4-5 times due to high power loss through heat but, on the bright side, you charge 80% in 30 minutes.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
There is always some loss, I just tried to explain reason of that.
Note 2 has a sloppy USB port, thus I am not able get a healthy connection every time, if connection is solid it gets up to 1.5A with Xiaomi and short USB cable. So yes, it charges while actively using.
QC shouldn't effect the capacity. Let's say my Xiaomi charges my phone 2.2 times. I highly doubt that this number would decrease if my power bank charges it with QC 2.0. Some. People are saying their 20k bank charges only 2.5 times, well I wouldn't believe that without seeing maybe low quality, old, used 18650 cells used thatoght be the reason of it. I would have test it with constant current load.
Since I think there will be no difference I would definetely get a power bank that supports quick charge. Faster, better. Btw I guess efficiency gets lower as phone battery gets full. So if you want more of it, you might want to try it to charge only %50 of phone battery. I wonder how many cycle would there if you try it %0 - %50 - %0 - %50 and compare it to %0 - %100 - %0 - %100.
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
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Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
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NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
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I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
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Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
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I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
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I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well