Power Bank Kills Battery - HTC One X

Hi,
Power Bank caused poor battery life, Wipe Battery Stats.
I thought I share my negative experience about using a power bank / portable phone recharger. I had bought a very cheap 5000mAh power bank from China on eBay. Sorry I no longer have eBay link but what I bought which was advertised as HTC One X compatible and it included a 1A power out USB port.
I charged the power bank and then charged my phone from 50 odd % to 100%. Then again from 37% and it only got as far as mid 50s% and the power bank ran out of juice. Afterwards charging my phone normally would take roughly 2 - 3 hours to charge and although it was showing 100% I would get no more than 5 - 6 hours of battery life. I put up with this for some time and eventually bought and installed a replacement battery which was authentic. I charged my phone and the same thing happened. No more than 6 hours of life. So I thought something had been ruined in my phone.
Anyway I have ViperX on my phone and last night noticed there had been a new version 3.6.1. I was in the ClockworkMod advanced settings to wipe the Dalvik Cache that I saw an option to Wipe the Battery Stats and the battery works perfectly.
Out of curiosity does anyone have any knowledge of what may have occurred with my battery/phone by using the power bank.
Thanks
Adrian.

I have the official HTC Powerbank and haven't noticed strange behavior yet.

What is cheap it doesn't mean that always good quality. First read review from people and read about company.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

PowerBank doesn't efficiently charge your battery, so it can't expect the same output that you get when you charge from a wall charger or a PC... and once you stop using the powerbank, it may take 2-3 battery cycles for the battery to settle down again!
I'm using Ambrane PowerBank (8000mAh) and I must say I'm pretty happy with it!

power banks mess up the percentage reading, I dont really think battery pack can degrade the battery in few charges. The last few percentages could last upto 1 day (it happened on my old android, the phone showed 33% for full day.) this is mainly because cheap power bank, runs at low voltage, and battery percent is measured by voltage.

Well..... With me Rule of Thumb when installing a new Rom or Battery would be to dona full drain then full charge then Wipe Batt Stats.... Every new Rom has a different battery affect on the unit that's why I wipe after an install.... Also don't forget if you install apps.... That could also drain your batteries more than others... I personally don't think it's the power source.. Meaning the power bank..... Weather it's charging at 300mAh or 500mAh or at 1A....100% on your battery is 100% no matter where you're getting the charge from... Kinda like filling up a cup.... Weather you're using a teaspoon or tablespoon or a tap to fill the cup.... When it's full it's full.... Really the only difference in chargers is the more output going to your battery the faster your phone will charge....
That's what leads me to say it's the software being flashed to the phone.... Not all are "battery friendly".... So after flashing.... Do a full charge then wipe the battery stats.....
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Just FYI but i recall reading somewhere (its on here somewhere) from an Android engineer, that the battery stats are automatically wiped on reboot and also when the phone is fully charged, so any effects from manually wiping the stats is more of a placebo.
Unless they've changed it all recently.. It was probably about a year ago that I read about it
Edit: here's the link : https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

lawrence750 said:
Just FYI but i recall reading somewhere (its on here somewhere) from an Android engineer, that the battery stats are automatically wiped on reboot and also when the phone is fully charged, so any effects from manually wiping the stats is more of a placebo.
Unless they've changed it all recently.. It was probably about a year ago that I read about it
Edit: here's the link : https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok.... Well I'm no engineer.... But I mainly did it going from the stock 1800mAh to the 5000mAh on my Note GT-N7000
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Just asking so is it advisable to use powerbanks? Will it damage the already battered battery that HOX has?

From my experience I would say go ahead.... I use the cheap 20,000mAh power banks from eBay at a cost of $20 and have had no issues... The bank has 2 USB charging ports with outputs of 1 & 2 amps.... I used the 1 amp for my HTC One X & now the 2amp port for my Note 3.... NO issues.... I use the charger bout an hour a day all week and charge the bank once a week....
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda premium

[email protected] said:
From my experience I would say go ahead.... I use the cheap 20,000mAh power banks from eBay at a cost of $20 and have had no issues... The bank has 2 USB charging ports with outputs of 1 & 2 amps.... I used the 1 amp for my HTC One X & now the 2amp port for my Note 3.... NO issues.... I use the charger bout an hour a day all week and charge the bank once a week....
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what if am using a wall charger output 2A ?

Salim.Keady said:
what if am using a wall charger output 2A ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the phone won't draw 2A so it is fine to use

Thanks
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

power bank
i'd been using a few different power banks, but never noticed any difference in battery life

I would like to ask of you guys if it is safe to use the phone while connected to a power bank or wall charger?

Hello Adrian,
I too faced the same problem. I have charged my Samsung Galaxy Tab T310 with MI portable charger 10400mah. my tablet charged with in 2-3 hours but the battery started draining very very fast. later I came to remember the basic rule of checking the output of the portable charger(2.1Amp) and input required by my tablet(2.0 Amp). I think this variation is resulting in battery drain.

using a power bank
You should buy one good quality power bank
14adrian said:
Hi,
Power Bank caused poor battery life, Wipe Battery Stats.
I thought I share my negative experience about using a power bank / portable phone recharger. I had bought a very cheap 5000mAh power bank from China on eBay. Sorry I no longer have eBay link but what I bought which was advertised as HTC One X compatible and it included a 1A power out USB port.
I charged the power bank and then charged my phone from 50 odd % to 100%. Then again from 37% and it only got as far as mid 50s% and the power bank ran out of juice. Afterwards charging my phone normally would take roughly 2 - 3 hours to charge and although it was showing 100% I would get no more than 5 - 6 hours of battery life. I put up with this for some time and eventually bought and installed a replacement battery which was authentic. I charged my phone and the same thing happened. No more than 6 hours of life. So I thought something had been ruined in my phone.
Anyway I have ViperX on my phone and last night noticed there had been a new version 3.6.1. I was in the ClockworkMod advanced settings to wipe the Dalvik Cache that I saw an option to Wipe the Battery Stats and the battery works perfectly.
Out of curiosity does anyone have any knowledge of what may have occurred with my battery/phone by using the power bank.
Thanks
Adrian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Being cheap doesn't mean good quality.
I got a 20000mAh power bank from avantek in amazon after my friend's advice.
it really works and i see no harm to the phone, though a little expensive ($49.99) for me.

Power banks use a charger, or not, to store power in some media (battery, capacitors, etc) internally and can transfer that energy to another item (cell phone, pad, etc) at any time without further muss or fuss.
Portable chargers will require some active source where they are used other than what they carry with them. Connection to a car power port, setting up a solar panel in sunlight, etc. will be required at the time and place of use.
A notable exception to this is the solar chargers DIY types are whipping up these days. They do both things, it would seem. They carry the small solar panel to produce the energy and a small set of rechargeable batteries to capture it for later use. I suppose you would have to classify these as hybrid charger power bank systems.
One carries a power source connection or generation circuit with it only and the other carries a bank of storage devices to draw from at any time.
I hope that this will help you understand the difference better. Good luck!

From my experience with different power banks I can see great difference in them in 3 different ways:
Controllers for power-in
Good quality controller will be able to work with different sources of power (0.5A, 1A, 2A, 3A) and voltages (5V, 9V, 12V - lick Qualcomm QuickCharge 2.0)., will protect agains overcharge & overheat. Cheap controllers may not protect overcharge or overheat - so may cause fire and damage.
Cells
There ma be 2 problems with cells: 1) overstated capacity - often happens on ebay that you get a "10000" mah powerbank which is more close to 4000mAh in reality. 2) Cell Quality - good cell can do 750-1500 full charge-recharge cycles before noticeable degradation of capacity. Bad quality cells will degrade after 50-100 cycles. Also had a battery which started to degrade after just 2-3 weeks.
Controllers for power-out
This part is very important for efficiency rate. Efficiency rate is a figure showing how much real capacity you will get from the powerbank. Why? Powerbank cells will provide you with current between 3.2 - 4.2 Volts. This needs to be converted to 5.0V so that the phone can accept it. Cheap bad quality controllers will loose 30-50% of power just in conversion. Good Quality (and more expensive) will loose 15-20% only.
So as You can see, from manufacturer point of view: if you want to create a dirt cheap battery, you can do it, but at the cost of less safety, less capacity and less final power in the phone. So be careful when buying cheap powerbanks - You will get what You pay for!

Related

Another Gold 3500 battery review...slightly scientific

Wanting more battery life and having reading a few positive reviews about the Gold 3500, I got one from Amazon (UK). The numbers 3500 vs 2500 mah indicate I should get around 40% extra battery life compared to stock but having played with RC cars and helicopters running LiPo packs I know that pack ratings aren't everything.
Actual battery capacity depends on the discharge rate, the more juice you pull the less the effective battery capacity you get with a lot of energy wasted in heat due to internal battery resistance. Fact of life with batteries of all chemistry.
My original battery is about 6 months old now, charged daily from anywhere between 0-50% remaining. In day to day use the Gold does seem to last longer based on my 6 months experience with the original battery but how much better is it?
I charged the batteries in my phone and turned the phone off once it hit 100% but kept the charger on as it seemed to charge for a bit longer.
Using my RC battery charger, I used the discharge function setting the low voltage cut off to 3V (standard for lithium batteries) and set the discharge rate at a constant 300 mah. Using a constant discharge rate may not be realistic but it does allow for a fair comparison, keep in mind that our phones power usage jumps up and down depending on use.
Results
-----------
6 month old stock battery rated at 2500 mah = 2364 mah (which is what I would expect from a battery with 180 cycles on it)
Brand new Gold 3500 rated at 3500 mah = 2524 mah (a bit disappointing but at least as good as a new stock battery)
Now the discharge rate can make a big difference to effective battery capacity, it might be that the 3500 mah rating on the Gold batteries was determined using a very low discharge rate or they discharged it to below 3V.....or its just a gold wrapper over a stock battery
Interesting to note that the stock Sammy battery is pretty true to its rated capacity, so the perceived increase in battery capacity I experienced with the Gold battery is probably just the difference between a 6 month old battery and a new one.
Oh well, at least I have a spare battery now and didn't pay a fortune for the Gold. The Gold does seem to last a bit longer than the 6 month old stock on so I am happy enough with it.
Notes:
Gold battery had been in use for 2 weeks to run it in
Only one discharge cycle was performed
Could be that I have a dud battery, you results may differ
In real day to day use the discharge properties of the Gold may result in a higher 'effective' capacity
Solar flares are the source of all coding errors
Fairies do live at the end of your garden :cyclops:
It's a shame i've read this post only two days after buying me one of those. Anyway, even if it won't last longer, i'd still have a spare battery right? So everything is not lost
nope, its a shame they rate it 3500mah if this is the case for all.
Mignon, maybe your can get a replacement from thrm and test again. Especially if you have a dud.
Do notice I notoce a significant increase in battery life after charging it past 100%. Probably placebo, I dont know.
Don't think I have a dud, in my experience lion batteries either work or don't. It's not a crap battery, it's just as good as stock but doesn't match the advertised 3500 mah rating.
And it's shiny gold so things aren't that bad
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Well that sucks.....haha...i order a gold a week ago.....it should be here soon.....
I got 3500mah gold battery. I review it.
My rom is ultimate rom v5.1, and my stock battery was 11 months old.
Screen on time was always less than 4 hours.
Yesterday I got the gold battery, and I used it up to 1% without first charge, then I charged it 12 hours to initilize the battery.
So unpluged the charge, and tested it as the same usage. I always downclocked to 1000MHz, wifi on, no use 3g data, brightness is zero, bluetooth and gps is off. I downloaded 15 files and apps today, listened to music, did multi windows function, and almost used web browsing.
Now my battery is just 1%. Screen on time is over 5 and half hours. Obviously the battery was improved.
If official JB are released, the battery will be improved more.
But this is not made in Japan. This is made in China because Japanese is so strange on package.
Some of Chinese battery are so dangerous and may be fake, but this gold battery is good one.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
here are pics
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
I'm satisfied with this.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
mingonn said:
Don't think I have a dud, in my experience lion batteries either work or don't. It's not a crap battery, it's just as good as stock but doesn't match the advertised 3500 mah rating.
And it's shiny gold so things aren't that bad
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dropped my stock and it works perfectly till 55% then it dies. Gonna throw it away soon. So some of the cells could be damaged. Its not either they work or dont m8.
@Mingnon thanks for your effortful tests.
@eeynjae, what are all apps spreading around those icons in your notification bar ?
I am pretty sure most mobile 3.7v phone batteries are single cell, only the mugen styled battery extender jobs that require a different back cover run two cells in parallel.
Remaining capacity is usually just a function of cell voltage so it's strange that it should just tank at 55%. Battery protection circuits generally prevent discharge past 3.0 volts so not sure what it's going on there.
Either way it sounds like you need a new battery, wouldn't risk recharging a damaged cell...
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
mingonn said:
I am pretty sure most mobile 3.7v phone batteries are single cell, only the mugen styled battery extender jobs that require a different back cover run two cells in parallel.
Remaining capacity is usually just a function of cell voltage so it's strange that it should just tank at 55%. Battery protection circuits generally prevent discharge past 3.0 volts so not sure what it's going on there.
Either way it sounds like you need a new battery, wouldn't risk recharging a damaged cell...
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah its strange. Stuff started to happen at 50, whrn restarting bat percentage dropped to 10-15%. Without restartingbit would go down normally in beginning. Now after using it some time and dropping it its 55%.
Its definitely it either works or doesnt.
Anyway I dont think it's single cell.
i have the same battery bought it a few months back i'am very satisfied....
it's not a 40% extra time even framework it designed to work with less voltage since after using it below 15% i notice always fake meter value, when you keep your phone asleep for half an hour you will notice an increase in percentage. not accurate but runs fine, its a spare and a great replacement i dont care if it's slightly powerful than stock at least its the same size for 4 extra hours.. i never needed to change case nor a cover of anything its great
Sorry for my off-topic question, but i see in this topic there are advised people recently i bought a noname car charger for my Note, (specs: output 5.5V DC, 800mAh) - is this charger good for the Note or it would damage it? (i read somewhere that the original car charger's output is 5V... this difference of 0.5V has any importance?) Thanks.
mingonn said:
Results
-----------
6 month old stock battery rated at 2500 mah = 2364 mah (which is what I would expect from a battery with 180 cycles on it)
Brand new Gold 3500 rated at 3500 mah = 2524 mah (a bit disappointing but at least as good as a new stock battery)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your time and efforts - your results are similar to my amateurish measurements performed twice and reported on the other 3500 battery thread. Having no device to test the actual capacity, I just used the continuous video playback in plane mode with minimal backlight. The time to full discharge was almost identical in both cases.
zetlorf said:
Sorry for my off-topic question, but i see in this topic there are advised people recently i bought a noname car charger for my Note, (specs: output 5.5V DC, 800mAh) - is this charger good for the Note or it would damage it? (i read somewhere that the original car charger's output is 5V... this difference of 0.5V has any importance?) Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody?
zetlorf said:
Nobody?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It won't damage your phone, but if you are going to use it as a gps while charging, it will probably keep dranig the battery, 800mah is not enough to charge it while screen is on and gps is running
baz77 said:
I dropped my stock and it works perfectly till 55% then it dies. Gonna throw it away soon. So some of the cells could be damaged. Its not either they work or dont m8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of the cells? Its a 3. 7v Li There is only one cell:silly:
i have been disapointed by this type of battery
hardtheory said:
i have been disapointed by this type of battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that?
After i've received mine, i've never ran out of battery during my day. Definitively improved the usage of my phone.

[BATTERY] To everyone that complain about battery life!

I read the biggest difference between the g2 and n5 are the battery life..
No biggy. I just bought one of these for £19.97 from eBay.
It's a "Power Bank" portable charger with a capacity of 15000mAh.
It has two ports, 1A and 2A. 2A is actually 2.1A, which is fairly fast. It's about 0.5 cm taller and wider than the n5, so you can just sit your phone comfortably on top of it while you eat lunch or whatever.
This charged my n5 from 14% to 100% in about 30 mins while playing a light game, and used roughly 1/5 of the total capacity.
I no longer charge my phones at night. I just charge this badboy. I've had it for a week and well, I haven't worried when my phone gets to 15% battery remaining by 12:00 due to heavy use and gaming. Neither has it ran out of charge before the end of the day, and it comes with 4 different adapters for varied devices.
It's perfect.
I found this new on eBay but you can find them anywhere, just make sure the get at least a 2.1A port for fast charging.
Sent from the dark side of the moon.
Shopping link?
probably something like this one
looks similar...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15000mAh-...162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d0e26bb6a
Sorry here's the link to the one I bought and that one the other guy linked looks very chunky and ugly no offence lol but yeah it's pretty much the same thing (same power, ports and adapters)
Edit : it's been reduced to £17.97 :thumbup:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121165722395
Sent from the dark side of the moon.
con4n007 said:
probably something like this one
looks similar...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15000mAh-...162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d0e26bb6a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems bulky and is around 32cdn.
Awww yeah!!
So essentially this, but with a battery pack!
Haha! That's hilarious but don't think that would be necessary since it fully charges in no time at all lmao
Sent from the dark side of the moon.
Hello everyone,
I hope to buy a power bank for my new Nexus 5.
I have made many search and I found that all power bank provide more that 1.2 A as output.
I noticed that the Nexus 5 official charger provide 1.2 A as output. So if I will buy a power bank that provides 2A or 3A, this will make problems for the phone battery ??
It is real that the important amperage charge the phone very fast, but this will not make problems for the battery ??
Ive got problems with the nexus 5's battery life aswell.
Now I'm using franco kernel and greenify and some other simple battery saving methods (no vibrate on key press, ...)
Feels like my battery life tripled it's juice!
Battary Life of Nexus 5
iKlutz said:
I read the biggest difference between the g2 and n5 are the battery life..
No biggy. I just bought one of these for £19.97 from eBay.
It's a "Power Bank" portable charger with a capacity of 15000mAh.
It has two ports, 1A and 2A. 2A is actually 2.1A, which is fairly fast. It's about 0.5 cm taller and wider than the n5, so you can just sit your phone comfortably on top of it while you eat lunch or whatever.
This charged my n5 from 14% to 100% in about 30 mins while playing a light game, and used roughly 1/5 of the total capacity.
I no longer charge my phones at night. I just charge this badboy. I've had it for a week and well, I haven't worried when my phone gets to 15% battery remaining by 12:00 due to heavy use and gaming. Neither has it ran out of charge before the end of the day, and it comes with 4 different adapters for varied devices.
It's perfect.
I found this new on eBay but you can find them anywhere, just make sure the get at least a 2.1A port for fast charging.
Sent from the dark side of the moon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power supply life is an issue for everyone modern touch screen phones, besides the Nexus 5. Handsets increasingly becoming thinner, displays pack in additional pixels than ever, mobile systems are getting more source intensive, and battery power technology basically can’t sustain. The issue is additional evident using some smartphones than it's in some others, however, and the actual Nexus 5 confirms itself on the list of worst performers we've got tested lately with regards to battery lifetime.
The best feature I have ever had on a smartphone was a power saving feature from the HTC one.
So simple but amazing at saving battery life.
It turned off the data connection when you were not using it.
So simple.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
onamika said:
however, and the actual Nexus 5 confirms itself on the list of worst performers we've got tested lately with regards to battery lifetime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proper testing conditions disagrees with you. You'd be hard pressed to find a more efficient quad core 2300 mAh phone ever made. The G2's 3000 mAh it can not match though.
http://anandtech.com/show/7517/google-nexus-5-review/3

Power Bank recommendations

Hi guys,
I am looking for a power bank for my HTC 10 . . . I prefer a more compact pack, so far I liked :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-P...015CMTR0E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
&
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-1...00OJXVDAU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Should I go for the bigger capacity or for the QC2 ?
Of course other recommendations are welcomed
Thanks
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
ademmer said:
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a QC 3.0 version. (I've been considering purchasing it.) For now, the prices on Amazon are even the same:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CZV9FUW
deopk said:
Hi guys,
I am looking for a power bank for my HTC 10 . . . I prefer a more compact pack, so far I liked :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-P...015CMTR0E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
&
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVPower-1...00OJXVDAU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Should I go for the bigger capacity or for the QC2 ?
Of course other recommendations are welcomed
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are theoretical bull**** talk and allegations and there's real life usage.. ?
In real life less than true 20Ah is useless.. with 20Ah capacity you'll have up-to probably 3 full charges for modern smartphone like hTc 10..????
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
I've got the OnePlus powerbank, it's 10000mAh and charges very quickly with its 2A port.
Sent from my A0001
I have the RAVPower 16750mAh. Does the job and has 2 ports so the wife could charge her phone at the same time.
My first unit didn't work so it was returned to Amazon for a refund and RAV also shipped a new unit so got it for free
lordred12345 said:
... and charges very quickly with its 2A port.
Sent from my A0001
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, charging from 2A port feels like 19th century experience.. when we're in hTc 10's xda forum..
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
jauhien said:
There are theoretical bull**** talk and allegations and there's real life usage.. ��
In real life less than true 20Ah is useless.. with 20Ah capacity you'll have up-to probably 3 full charges for modern smartphone like hTc 10..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, let's unpack what you said.
Any power bank has rated mah at a specific voltage, mostly around 3.7V.
So for a 10kmah battery we get 10k x 3.7 = 37 watt hours
But the phone will require 5V to charge at a minimum. That means 37/5 = 7.4k mah
Under ideal conditions that is the capacity remaining. There are efficiency losses on top which will reduce that figure.
If its a QC2 charger, then it will charge at 9V. Which works out to 4k mah. remember the efficiency losses again.
So QC2 10kmah battery pack will charge HTC 10 from 0-100 one time and have some left. Or two times 50-100%. If the temperature is not above 32 degrees C it will work well. Above that maybe not so fast.
If its non QC2, make that twice as many times. For something light this can work.
I am thinking that QC2/3 is fine if you are charging from mains, or car charger but comes with a cost if its from a battery pack. A pack that can be quick charged is better than one that cannot be and still better if it does not quick charge the phone.
If its 20Ah, non QC then 74Wh battery or 14.8 mah, after efficicency close to 14k mah.
4 full charges. 5V, upto 2.4A is good.
if its QC2, 2 full charges and change
One Twelve said:
Right, let's unpack what you said.
Any power bank has rated mah at a specific voltage, mostly around 3.7V.
So for a 10kmah battery we get 10k x 3.7 = 37 watt hours
But the phone will require 5V to charge at a minimum. That means 37/5 = 7.4k mah
Under ideal conditions that is the capacity remaining. There are efficiency losses on top which will reduce that figure.
If its a QC2 charger, then it will charge at 9V. Which works out to 4k mah. remember the efficiency losses again.
So QC2 10kmah battery pack will charge HTC 10 from 0-100 one time and have some left. Or two times 50-100%. If the temperature is not above 32 degrees C it will work well. Above that maybe not so fast.
If its non QC2, make that twice as many times. For something light this can work.
I am thinking that QC2/3 is fine if you are charging from mains, or car charger but comes with a cost if its from a battery pack. A pack that can be quick charged is better than one that cannot be and still better if it does not quick charge the phone.
If its 20Ah, non QC then 74Wh battery or 14.8 mah, after efficicency close to 14k mah.
4 full charges. 5V, upto 2.4A is good.
if its QC2, 2 full charges and change
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! It's quite rare in these forums to read someone whose technical knowledge exceeds the Arithmetic..
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
One Twelve said:
Right, let's unpack what you said.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say that 20Ah real life power bank purchased via real retailer and operated thru QC2 technology can charge hTc 10 which has 3 Ah built-in battery - up to 2.5 times in real life (and I know it from experience)..
He said - 2 times in real life (what is very close)
You disagreed and typed a bunch of stuff.. Can you just clearly state "how many times" real life power bank 20 Ah would charge in real life hTc 10 by QC tech..?
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
ademmer said:
I own an Anker PowerCore+ 10050mAh which is compact and has a decent build quality. It is QC 2.0, dunno whether a QC 3.0 variant exists. On the other hand, QC3 is only superior by roughly 15% IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell us how many full charges or the equivalent you can get from the PC+ 10050 ?
It has only one port so you have no choice but to accept QC2.
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, power is power. What @One Twelve said seems wrong. Power banks have lithium ion batteries (18650) so they are in 3.7 volts, lets think about one with 10.000 mah and 3.7 volt, they actually change between 4.2v and 3v but I am going to ignore that. Phone input is 5v and convertion here seems right, 3.7v 10k mA = 5v 7.4k mA . However you are missing a point. Your phone battery is li-poly and it is 3.7 volt as well, so power banks 10k mAh equals to 3 times 3.2k mAh phone battery. There will be bunch of conversions though, firs there is a step up circuit 3.7 to 5 volt on powerbank and then there will be step down inside 5 to 3.7 inside the phone. There will be loss on conversions, also there will be loss on cable and while you are charging your phone will consume some energy too unless it is turned off. Everything included I am able to charge my note 2 2 full times with my 10050 man Xiaomi power bank. I think after 10k mAh it starts beeing inconvenient.
ro_explorer said:
I have to disagree with some of the info. Power is power. No matter how you convert it and from how many cells it comes from, it is still power. The converters nowadays have an efficiency between 85 and 98%... so let's assume the average of 90%. So, for a power bank of (like you said) 10k mAh powered by a single li-ion element (average 3.7V) you get 37Wh power. Take 10% away and you remain with 33.3Wh.
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
The QC compatible chargers usually have multi-cell design so there is no need for a buck converter (voltage raiser). A 3 cells design (11.1 V) will be enough for QC 2.0 and a 4 cells design will meet QC 3.0 standard. And a normal. 18150 Li-ion cell (the most common type used nowadays in these chargers) can deliver 3000mAh w/o a problem (the good ones).
Again, power is power. You can convert it (with a certain efficiency) but the power is still there and gets transferred. The "lost" power is actually transformed into heat.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My source is here
http://www.tp-link.com/en/faq-741.html
As a result of the test thread i used the info of voltage for QC2 and then made the calculation.
One Twelve said:
My source is here
http://www.tp-link.com/en/faq-741.html
As a result of the test thread i used the info of voltage for QC2 and them made the calculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your source seems wrong, what you are charging is 3.7v as well, hence it doesnt make sense to convert mAh value to 5 volts, unless that tplink is charging something exactly 5 volts.
TheMadcapl said:
Your source seems wrong, what you are charging is 3.7v as well, hence it doesnt make sense to convert mAh value to 5 volts, unless that tplink is charging something exactly 5 volts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant charge a phone with less than 5V. Use a usb power meter with any phone and see for yourself.
I find it remarkable that company that also sells power banks would have such an informative faq on setting expectations for their products.
One Twelve said:
You cant charge a phone with less than 5V. Use a usb power meter with any phone and see for yourself.
I find it remarkable that company that also sells power banks would have such an informative faq on setting expectations for their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I explained it detailed in my first post. There would be a step up and then step down conversion, 3.7 -> 5 -> 3.7 . Thus in the end it is same 10k mAh.
TheMadcapl said:
Everything included I am able to charge my note 2 2 full times with my 10050 man Xiaomi power bank. I think after 10k mAh it starts beeing inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I agree with your figure
2 full charges with stated 10k mah with non QC. Plus a little left in the bank.
Not 3 full charges, that is the point. As is being contended below by ro_explorer from 10k mah
What is wrong with the estimation I gave. It gives a figure close to your real life experience
If power is power and 3.7 is stepped to 5v and back down to 3.7, why aren't you getting 3 full charges from your power bank ?
There is no QC2 on the note 2 so its better. Maybe slower but you get more out of it.
What i wonder is how well the power bank can charge when you are using the device. Say you are watching youtube or using GPS. Can your Xiaomi charge more than you consume ?
Is a QC2 power bank really necessary in this case or can one get away with non QC.
ro_explorer said:
The phone battery (HTC 10) is 3000mAh with a single cell design (3.7V). This means roughly 10Wh. So, you still have 3 full charges there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jauhien said:
I say that 20Ah real life power bank purchased via real retailer and operated thru QC2 technology can charge hTc 10 which has 3 Ah built-in battery - up to 2.5 times in real life (and I know it from experience)..
He said - 2 times in real life (what is very close)
You disagreed and typed a bunch of stuff.. Can you just clearly state "how many times" real life power bank 20 Ah would charge in real life hTc 10 by QC tech..?
Sent from quite brutal hTc 10 ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A high quality 20mAh power bank should be able to charge the HTC 10, 0-100%, up to 6 times (considering some power loss due to conversion). A QC similar charger will go down in number of charges to probably 4-5 times due to high power loss through heat but, on the bright side, you charge 80% in 30 minutes.
-= Sent from a parallel universe through a wormhole =-
There is always some loss, I just tried to explain reason of that.
Note 2 has a sloppy USB port, thus I am not able get a healthy connection every time, if connection is solid it gets up to 1.5A with Xiaomi and short USB cable. So yes, it charges while actively using.
QC shouldn't effect the capacity. Let's say my Xiaomi charges my phone 2.2 times. I highly doubt that this number would decrease if my power bank charges it with QC 2.0. Some. People are saying their 20k bank charges only 2.5 times, well I wouldn't believe that without seeing maybe low quality, old, used 18650 cells used thatoght be the reason of it. I would have test it with constant current load.
Since I think there will be no difference I would definetely get a power bank that supports quick charge. Faster, better. Btw I guess efficiency gets lower as phone battery gets full. So if you want more of it, you might want to try it to charge only %50 of phone battery. I wonder how many cycle would there if you try it %0 - %50 - %0 - %50 and compare it to %0 - %100 - %0 - %100.

Phone abruptly dies under 20% battery

Phone totally goes black/dies when battery is 21% down to 10%. does this just mean the battery I have is bad? What replacement battery is best? I've read Anker makes a good set with charger. Thanks.
Samsung SDI batteries are the only batteries I've known to do this. When screen goes black, that should be a shutdown. Do you plug in your charger at that time? Mine actually actually showed 0%.
It's inconvenient for a battery to shutdown unexpectedly, while showing capacity remaining. I always replace Samsung OEM batteries with another brand. I found one that I liked so l went to Amazon and bought a second plus external charger from same brand. If looking at another alternative, just search MPJ and read the reviews. The battery and wall charger were on sale last week, maybe still.
If you're considering upgrading to sealed battery in unibody phone, you should consider the care required for such a phone to get battery to last. Sealed batteries are actually very similar in capability and ratings; no leap in tech but apparent shortcoming evident in Note7 embarrassment. Fast charging produces heat and steals life from battery's endurance down the road. Studies have shown since lithium batteries have no memory that you're actually prolonging the battery by slow charging without load or minimum load and bump charging rather than cycling battery to near 0% then back to 100%. Manufacturers don't tell you that because they prefer you wear your battery down in less than a year's time and consider another phone purchase.
Maybe Samsung would be better off today if consumers were more aware of how to prolong lithium batteries?
If you want your battery to last two years, bump charge it after 25% used as much as possible; it shouldn't even matter if you bump charge it 3x per day. Avoid fast charging and heat cycles. IOW, try not to use it while charging; the cycles should be short anyway.
Or, if you prefer to abuse a removable battery like the Note 4 and care less, pay about $15 and just replace the battery every year. 500 full cycles is all these batteries are currently rated for due to increased degradation with abuse. Mini cycles allows more of those cycles without degradation but you'll still have capacity when you need it to last a long day without charging.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Wow thanks for all the information. What does bump charge mean exactly? Now my battery won't charge passed 90% either. A different one is on the way.
Toyeboy said:
Wow thanks for all the information. What does bump charge mean exactly? Now my battery won't charge passed 90% either. A different one is on the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this, if you are rooted and have recovery wipe dalvik cache and cache. Power off phone and pull battery for like 5-10min. Hold the power button (with battery out) for like 1-2min. After letting battery sit out for 5-10min reboot and see what happens. If same instances occur. Your battery is dead just purchase a new one! Anker recommended!
Toyeboy said:
Wow thanks for all the information. What does bump charge mean exactly? Now my battery won't charge passed 90% either. A different one is on the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
Bump charging is partially charging before battery gets low. An example would be running the battery down 25% and charging without overcharging it.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Had the same issue, bought a new Anker and issues resolved, the stock Samsung sucks!
I'm just glad there's a way to replace it that'll mean this phone can last a long time if I'm careful with it.
Yeah it must be these batteries. My mom has the Note 4 as well and hers does the same thing. As does mine
g355150 said:
Yeah it must be these batteries. My mom has the Note 4 as well and hers does the same thing. As does mine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the stock Samsung batteries are horrible. They don't last very long then they start misrepresenting the battery statistics to the OS so you get the shutdowns at 20 or so %. I switched to a twenty$ Anker I found on Amazon over 6 months ago and never had the issue occur again. Even thy sprint techs will tell you if you ask them outright!
sent from my droid

Couple Battery Questions

Got 2 new batteries and I want to keep them for a while, so I have a few questions:
1. Is the OEM fast-charge charger and cable okay to use every day, or will it degrade the battery faster than a slower/regular speed charger/cable?
2. Since I have 2 batteries now, which is the best way to charge them both up? charge 1 in the phone, then swap and charge the other in the phone? Or buy a battery charger (and if so, which one)?
3. Any other helps regarding the chargers and/or cables?​Thank you for your help.
Faster charging will always generate more heat and put more stress on the battery, so slower charging would be better for a battery's lifespan, but I don't think you'll see a huge difference within two years.
By far the fastest way to keep going is having the second battery charged in an external battery charger and then swap when the other battery gets low, followed by charging the low battery in the external charger. Doing it this way also puts the least wear-and-tear on the phone's charging port since you'll rarely use it. I use LG's OEM external battery charging cradle (BCK-5200), but it may be hard to find nowadays. There's currently a used one up for sale in an auction by an American seller on eBay, and there are new ones from a South Korean seller for a higher fixed price. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for one. As for charging time, for me, it takes about 4 hours to charge my MaxxxJuice 4100 mAh batteries from ~5–10% to full. External chargers do not fast-charge, so you'll never put too much stress on the battery that way. Of course, swapping may not be for everyone as it may be inconvenient to take a case off and put it back on.
Unlike the older microUSB cables, bad USB Type-C cables that are not built to certain specifications can draw higher currents and destroy the devices they are charging. A few years ago, a Google engineer reviewed lots of USB-C cables on Amazon to give his view on those. If you need a third-party cable, make sure you get one from a reputable source with good reviews. My preferred USB cable is Anker's Powerline+ due to their extra strength/thickness, and I don't need much flexibility/twistability in my cables. Also, I like how the USB-C end connector is made of one single piece where you don't see any connecting lines around the middle (you can see an example here).
Other thoughts:
As long as there is a supply of extra batteries around and you can afford to buy them when the time comes, then you shouldn't worry much about how you charge your phone. In my opinion, that is one of the main selling points of having a hand-removable battery. I imagine a paranoid person on a phone with a sealed battery would be trying to keep the battery level between 40 and 80% at all times. So really, the only thing to worry about is having a decent USB-C cable and making sure the phone's charging port is clean and not worn out.
In case you are really interested on my detailed charging habits and related things on my V20, I discussed them while reviewing my batteries a while back on the V20 Subreddit.
Thanks!
C D said:
Faster charging will always generate more heat and put more stress on the battery, so slower charging would be better for a battery's lifespan, but I don't think you'll see a huge difference within two years.
By far the fastest way to keep going is having the second battery charged in an external battery charger and then swap when the other battery gets low, followed by charging the low battery in the external charger. Doing it this way also puts the least wear-and-tear on the phone's charging port since you'll rarely use it. I use LG's OEM external battery charging cradle (BCK-5200), but it may be hard to find nowadays. There's currently a used one up for sale in an auction by an American seller on eBay, and there are new ones from a South Korean seller for a higher fixed price. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for one. As for charging time, for me, it takes about 4 hours to charge my MaxxxJuice 4100 mAh batteries from ~5–10% to full. External chargers do not fast-charge, so you'll never put too much stress on the battery that way. Of course, swapping may not be for everyone as it may be inconvenient to take a case off and put it back on.
Unlike the older microUSB cables, bad USB Type-C cables that are not built to certain specifications can draw higher currents and destroy the devices they are charging. A few years ago, a Google engineer reviewed lots of USB-C cables on Amazon to give his view on those. If you need a third-party cable, make sure you get one from a reputable source with good reviews. My preferred USB cable is Anker's Powerline+ due to their extra strength/thickness, and I don't need much flexibility/twistability in my cables. Also, I like how the USB-C end connector is made of one single piece where you don't see any connecting lines around the middle (you can see an example here).
Other thoughts:
As long as there is a supply of extra batteries around and you can afford to buy them when the time comes, then you shouldn't worry much about how you charge your phone. In my opinion, that is one of the main selling points of having a hand-removable battery. I imagine a paranoid person on a phone with a sealed battery would be trying to keep the battery level between 40 and 80% at all times. So really, the only thing to worry about is having a decent USB-C cable and making sure the phone's charging port is clean and not worn out.
In case you are really interested on my detailed charging habits and related things on my V20, I discussed them while reviewing my batteries a while back on the V20 Subreddit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On that Subreddit, you mentioned you cycled a couple batteries. Did you have to do the whole fully charge and fully drain thing each time you switched to the new battery, or just when you first bought the batteries?
Would like to know the answer to ^this^ as well.
baldybill said:
On that Subreddit, you mentioned you cycled a couple batteries. Did you have to do the whole fully charge and fully drain thing each time you switched to the new battery, or just when you first bought the batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pistacios said:
Would like to know the answer to ^this^ as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I only did the full cycle with the first battery three times, and that was it. The only reason to do that is for the Android software of the phone to get a better sense of your battery level. Of course, it won't be as accurate the longer you go swapping between batteries as undoubtedly they will differ a bit in capacity over time. But fully running down and then fully charging a battery isn't good for its lifespan if you do it too often. The only other times you'd have to really repeat the calibration is when switching to a battery with a different capacity or switching ROMs / doing a factory reset.
C D said:
No, I only did the full cycle with the first battery three times, and that was it. The only reason to do that is for the Android software of the phone to get a better sense of your battery level. Of course, it won't be as accurate the longer you go swapping between batteries as undoubtedly they will differ a bit in capacity over time. But fully running down and then fully charging a battery isn't good for its lifespan if you do it too often. The only other times you'd have to really repeat the calibration is when switching to a battery with a different capacity or switching ROMs / doing a factory reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, I got a 4000 Powerbear that I'm calibrating now.
I'm also getting a 4100 Perfine.
Are they close enough that I shouldn't have to recalibrate for the 4100?
baldybill said:
So, I got a 4000 Powerbear that I'm calibrating now.
I'm also getting a 4100 Perfine.
Are they close enough that I shouldn't have to recalibrate for the 4100?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely yes. I imagine most of these 4000–4300 mAh Lithium polymer batteries that started popping up this year are very similar, and some may just be rebranded from the same common factory source. Barring a defective battery, if the two batteries had a significant difference in capacity, you could see things like early shutdowns on the smaller capacity one or being stuck at a low percentage for an unusually long amount of time on the larger capacity one.
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
pistacios said:
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. I suppose one could try keeping separate copies of the batterystats.bin file from /data/system when rooted and swap them alongside the different batteries. But that sounds like too much of a pain to deal with, even if it works.
C D said:
Most likely yes. I imagine most of these 4000–4300 mAh Lithium polymer batteries that started popping up this year are very similar, and some may just be rebranded from the same common factory source. Barring a defective battery, if the two batteries had a significant difference in capacity, you could see things like early shutdowns on the smaller capacity one or being stuck at a low percentage for an unusually long amount of time on the larger capacity one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pistacios said:
Great info.
So it looks like all other batteries on hand should not be put into rotation with the higher capacity batteries to avoid inaccurate readings in Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C D said:
Pretty much this. I suppose one could try keeping separate copies of the batterystats.bin file from /data/system when rooted and swap them alongside the different batteries. But that sounds like too much of a pain to deal with, even if it works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to add to this, I found your pics @C D for the charging instructions and there's a note about using 3200mah batteries along with the 4100mah batteries.
pistacios said:
Just to add to this, I found your pics @C D for the charging instructions and there's a note about using 3200mah batteries along with the 4100mah batteries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that mean that if you switch between the batteries, they'll both last as long as they should (the 4100 longer time than the orig. 3200), but the system's percent will be wrong?
My understanding is that if you calibrate the phone to recognize the full 4100mah and then use a 3200mah battery, it will shut down early (but still use the full 3200mah).
Correct. They are warning you that swapping between batteries of significantly different capacities will throw off the accuracy of the phone's battery percentage indicator at all times, especially at the high and low percent values (so an early shutdown can happen when the smaller capacity battery is used). Of course, this won't affect either battery's true capacity.
I'd pay good money for a system that can correctly handle different battery capacities of any amount, but we all know where the future of hand-removable batteries has been heading for the last 3–4 years.
Does anyone charge their phone ONLY to 80 % or so?
If so, what apps do you use to limit this? Any other tips/advice?
baldybill said:
Does anyone charge their phone ONLY to 80 % or so?
If so, what apps do you use to limit this? Any other tips/advice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use AccuBattery and it has a notification sound that plays when you hit the target charge percentage, but it's still up to you to remove the phone from the charger or else it continues charging to 100%.
Since our phones have replaceable batteries, I haven't made any special effort to take care of them. I have a pair of May '17 OEM 3200 mAh batteries that are going to get switched out for a pair of new 4100+ mAh Li-Po batteries once I get my second V20 set up. Every charger I use is QuickCharge 3.0 certified except for USB on my PCs and my Pioneer Android Auto headunit USB connection in one car. The vast majority of the time, I charge via QC 3.0. Pretty much the only time I let the battery charge via PC USB is when I actually need to transfer files between the phone and computer.
Before my phone started having issues in the past month with a phantom power drain, I would let the phone charge from 30-40% to 80-90% and then remove it from the charger at night before going to sleep. In the last half year as the batteries have aged, I've let it get up to between 90-95% before unplugging. For the past month, I've been charging the phone four times a day from 40-100% to combat the power drain issue, but that comes with knowing that I don't care about these old batteries or the state of the firmware on this first V20 anymore.
As for when I swapped the two batteries I have, that entirely depended on when I actually ran one down so far that I needed a 0-100% battery swap, which could be months at a time and usually happened while on vacation or away from a charging source for a longer period of time than what my usual home/car/work routine allows.

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