Develop Bugs

NEWS: WP7 side-loading of apps...It's going to be difficult to stop it now! YAY!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100726...dG9yeQRzbGsDZnVsbG5ic3BzdG9y#mwpphu-container
New gov't rules allow unapproved iPhone apps
WASHINGTON – Owners of the iPhone will be able to legally unlock their devices so they can run software applications that haven't been approved by Apple Inc., according to new government rules announced Monday.
The decision to allow the practice commonly known as "jailbreaking" is one of a handful of new exemptions from a 1998 federal law that prohibits people from bypassing technical measures that companies put on their products to prevent unauthorized use of copyright-protected material. The Library of Congress, which oversees the Copyright Office, reviews and authorizes exemptions every three years to ensure that the law does not prevent certain non-infringing uses of copyright-protected works.
For iPhone jailbreakers, the new rules effectively legitimize a practice that has been operating in a legal gray area by exempting it from liability. Apple claims that jailbreaking is an unauthorized modification of its software.
Mario Ciabarra, founder of Rock Your Phone, which calls itself an "independent iPhone application store," said the rules mark the first step toward opening the iPhone app market to competition and removing the "handcuffs" that Apple imposes on developers that want to reach users of the wildly popular device.
Unless users unlock their handsets, they can only download apps from Apple's iTunes store. Software developers must get such apps pre-approved by Apple, which sometimes demands changes or rejects programs for what developers say are vague reasons.
Ciabarra noted that Google Inc. has taken a different approach with its Android operating system, which is emerging as the biggest competitor to the iPhone. Google allows users of Android phones to download applications from outside the Android Market.
Although Apple has never prosecuted anyone for jailbreaking, it does use software upgrades to disable jailbroken phones, and the new government rules won't put a stop to that. That means owners of such phones might not be able to take advantage of software improvements, and they still run the risk of voiding their warranty.
Apple spokesman Natalie Kerris said Monday that the company is concerned about jailbreaking because the practice can make an iPhone unstable and unreliable.
"Apple's goal has always been to ensure that our customers have a great experience with their iPhone, and we know that jailbreaking can severely degrade the experience," she said.
In addition to jailbreaking, other exemptions announced Monday would:
• allow owners of used cell phones to break access controls on their phones in order to switch wireless carriers.
• allow people to break technical protections on video games to investigate or correct security flaws.
• allow college professors, film students, documentary filmmakers and producers of noncommercial videos to break copy-protection measures on DVDs so they can embed clips for educational purposes, criticism or commentary.
• allow computer owners to bypass the need for external security devices called dongles if the dongle no longer works and cannot be replaced.
• allow blind people to break locks on electronic books so that they can use them with read-aloud software and similar aides.
Although the jailbreaking exemption is new, all the others are similar to the last set of exemptions, which were announced in November 2006. The new rules take effect Tuesday and are expected to last a few years.
The exceptions are a big victory for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which had urged the Library of Congress to legalize several of them, including the two regarding cell phones.
Jennifer Stisa Granick, EFF's civil liberties director, said the rules are based on an important principle: Consumers should be allowed to use and modify the devices that they purchase the way they want. "If you bought it, you own it," she said.
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With this landmark decision, say goodbye to big brother locking up phones and preventing side-loading. YAY!
Go EFF!

rorytmeadows said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100726...dG9yeQRzbGsDZnVsbG5ic3BzdG9y#mwpphu-container
With this landmark decision, say goodbye to big brother locking up phones and preventing side-loading. YAY!
Go EFF!
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I am wondering if that also extends to rom modification/nand flash trickery as well which has been known to violate (htc specifically) the eula. if it extends to that, then
there is a god
if not oh well back to the old drawing board

domineus said:
I am wondering if that also extends to rom modification/nand flash trickery as well which has been known to violate (htc specifically) the eula. if it extends to that, then
there is a god
if not oh well back to the old drawing board
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Either way, XDA can still live on legally with Windows Phone 7!!!

rorytmeadows said:
Either way, XDA can still live on legally with Windows Phone 7!!!
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LOL let's hope!
But what about Europe?

Well, not much has changed. All this legislation means is that you can't be sued for it.

Bengal34 said:
Well, not much has changed. All this legislation means is that you can't be sued for it.
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Well, more importantly, the apps, software, and other information will be more readily available to the public. People don't have to hide away. Methods and installs can be posted on CNET and Engadget, and it might be just possible that eventually, these companies might have to provide methods to side-load OR hard reset/reinstall ROMs...MAYBE???

Legal don't make it a easy thing to do. And it's still worth for Microsoft to try and prevent, as a single marketplace is better for business, both for Microsoft and for the application developers.
So it's a bit meh

rorytmeadows said:
Well, more importantly, the apps, software, and other information will be more readily available to the public. People don't have to hide away. Methods and installs can be posted on CNET and Engadget, and it might be just possible that eventually, these companies might have to provide methods to side-load OR hard reset/reinstall ROMs...MAYBE???
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Companies can still take steps against it. OS updates can still break jailbreaks and doing stuff to your phones can still violated EULAs and void warranties.

While this may give consumers the right to hack their phones I dont see anything there that says companies have to support devices running unauthorised software. All they have to do is add to their EULA that hacked phones wont be supported. Plus I dont see how this is good because MS is already implementing security measures for Xbox Live on WP7, this will only make them more vigilant looking for hacked Live accounts.
Personally I dont know why people dont just buy a device that doesnt need to be hacked in the first place, why buy a device then start moaning that you cant load what you want when that is the functionality it had when you purchased it?

Well, implications of this ruling down the road COULD mean that companies have to provide easy opportunities for side-loading. That could mean that Apple, Microsoft, etc., has to allow side-loading by default. Anything is possible, considering.

Possible double?
Is this the same you are referring to?
If so you know what will happen here
If not my apologies

rorytmeadows said:
Well, implications of this ruling down the road COULD mean that companies have to provide easy opportunities for side-loading. That could mean that Apple, Microsoft, etc., has to allow side-loading by default. Anything is possible, considering.
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No, no it couldn't. It's just not the case. All it does is make it legal for people to break the protections for those things. That's it. Nothing more.

RustyGrom said:
No, no it couldn't. It's just not the case. All it does is make it legal for people to break the protections for those things. That's it. Nothing more.
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Until someone threatens legal action for not allowing side-loading without breaking warranty.

rorytmeadows said:
Until someone threatens legal action for not allowing side-loading without breaking warranty.
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The case would get tossed. It's completely their prerogative to do that.

All the case does is make jailbreaking your phone legal in respect to US law. It may or may not affect MS's stance on jailbreaking (they haven't publicly stated how they would deal with jailbreakers), but all this does is prevent MS from suing jailbreakers if they jailbreak their devices.

doministry said:
LOL let's hope!
But what about Europe?
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Europe doesnt have the same stupid laws as US and jailbreaking/unlocking phones has always been legal here afaik

RustyGrom said:
The case would get tossed. It's completely their prerogative to do that.
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We'll see. In talks with the EFF, they might be working on that in the future.

rorytmeadows said:
We'll see. In talks with the EFF, they might be working on that in the future.
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Don't get your hopes up. All the legislation is, is to prevent companies from suing individuals for creating or using jailbreaks on their phones. Microsoft or Apple will NOT have to support a phone that's running unauthorized software.

Bengal34 said:
Don't get your hopes up. All the legislation is, is to prevent companies from suing individuals for creating or using jailbreaks on their phones. Microsoft or Apple will NOT have to support a phone that's running unauthorized software.
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Full operating systems don't work like this, so why would you assume otherwise? Think positive and read up!

rorytmeadows said:
Full operating systems don't work like this, so why would you assume otherwise? Think positive and read up!
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Full OS's don't have to be jailbroken to run apps. Also, MSFT doesn't support the apps (unless they wrote it).
Seriously, stop. You're completely wrong. This ruling does not change anything in this respect. It ONLY means that we can't be sued. And I may be mistaken but I believe that people distributing ways to do it still can be.

Seriously Verizon?

wmpoweruser.com recently posted the following article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/verizon-was-in-the-running-for-a-lte-windows-phone-but-turned-it-down/
Basically, the rumor is that Verizon has rejected LTE Windows Phones until at least the end of 2012 as well as any high-end Windows Phones..
???
Am I the only person who finds this very aggravating?

This probably isn't true
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App

hunterjackson92 said:
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
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Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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december, january, february, march-ISH
thats a looooong way off still in att time. given how eta dates tend to slip, well, you know.
(supposedly) Verizon asked microsoft for a roadmap, microsoft said 'meh'. You can't expect big red to commit to a marketing campaign for wp LTE devices, without a roadmap.
as awesome as LTE is, hopefully batteries will have a breakthrough before it's considered standard practice to be connected to that kind of connection all day long. ouch !

Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.

LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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yea which makes me wonder if Nokia and MSFT perfected the battery life problem. A lot of companies are waiting for a new chip that better hndles lte radio.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

jason1175 said:
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
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i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.

Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!

ohgood said:
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
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But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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The same reason they push their Android phones so hard, they have a huge investment in it.

jason1175 said:
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
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Maybe wp7 has stigma already... I dunno. The re-education of salesfloor staff would cost money, and it would be ongoing given the turnover rate. <--- maybe why
There are so many catch22's dealing with new products of any kind. Apple has the mindshare that will buy -just- because its the new model, on whichever carrier has it. Verizon is enjoying the contracts the iphone brought, along with the benefits of a couple of "droid does" splashed across screens during football games.
Microsofts ads may be too far above the intellect of consumers to register ?
Lots of questions. Good ones.

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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Because lte manages their network more efficiently and its cheaper because the lte towers are smarter. Can do a lot of things on the tower instead of sending data to HQ
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

DMCA wants to stop us from rooting our device PLEASE HELP

The DMCA want to make it illegal for us to root or jailbreak phones, tablets and gaming consoles. If this happens then we lose the ability to customize, fix bugs, and correct security issues on our devices that we pay money for. Xda developers will go away , and so will software innovation. Think about what we will lose Cyanogenmod, Miui, Juggernaut, Beastmod all of it gone and so will the money developers make selling root apps on the market this is important. If you think this is silly tell Steve Kondik AKA cyanogen hes the one who brought this to light for many people.
the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)
https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices
Do some homework before blowing this off this is serious! Device manufacturers claim Root/jailbreaking violates Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which carries stiff penalties.

Are you seriously concerned about this? They can't stop us, and if ever we need to send our devices back we just return to stock...simple as that.

Yes, they can't stop us. But the current position on rooting and jailbreaking is only a temporary exemption from the DMCA. This exemption needs to be periodically renewed or it will expire and we will be subject to he DMCA which makes it easy to argue we are breaking the law. That alone would probably have a chilling effect on the rooting communities as the unofficial support from manufacturers dries up. I doubt Samsung will openly support a community perceived as breaking the law.
That said... yes, we need to speak up and help the larger rooting/jailbreaking community to renew this exemption. If we don't speak up, it will die and the FTC will not renew the exemption.

iLeopard said:
Are you seriously concerned about this? They can't stop us, and if ever we need to send our devices back we just return to stock...simple as that.
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Well the question really is if providers have the ability to accurately see what your phone is running and will they be forced to block our service if the DMCA threatens to sue the actual companies.

The real concern here isn’t about our ability to root/jail break our OWN devices or not. It’s about control! These scumbags along with the a**holes that support SOPA and PIPA simply want to keep us in check so they can shove their BS down our throats for the price of whatever they want.

If this happens then no one would ever upgrade phones and the market would take a big hit. We true rooter would aways stay on old phones to keep root.

xile6 said:
If this happens then no one would ever upgrade phones and the market would take a big hit. We true rooter would aways stay on old phones to keep root.
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I'd rather have a 100% stock sII than a modded up g1
anyway if google and the manufacturers want us not to root they will remove the ability to let us.

Smartphones = computers. Its legal to do whatever you want with a computer so long as you do not commit cyber crime.
Desktop pc -> laptop -> notebook -> netbook -> tablet -> smartphone
All these devices are the same... the only difference between them is the size & spec. They are all essentially computers.

If you don't support this by educating yourself and then registering your comments with the US Copyright Office within the next 8 days, like the Software Freedom Law Center has, what do you think will eventually happen to websites like xdadevelopers? Making jailbreaking/rooting illegal would apply to all instances, on devices both old and new. So you would be liable if you used such a device, (although it would be difficult to catch everyone), disseminated information on how to do this to your device, (goodbye all websites that help folks root), or sold services or software that helped someone root their device.
And tri4life's comments are accurate. With these kinds of laws in place, service providers would want, or may be forced to, develop systems which could tell if your smartphone is rooted and then turn off service, and likely put you into a queue for a visit from an "RIAA type" lawsuit. BTW, the "lock-in AppStore you can't change the OS" model is coming to personal computers as well. So not only is this a stand against this behavior on the smartphone front, but also in case this starts to creep into the PC world, as well. The Software Freedom Law Center comments go into some interesting details on this.
If you don't think it's serious than you should actually read the law that's in question here. For fun, you can skip down to the end where it describes the civil and criminal penalties that apply if the exemption is not in place. So not only do we need to support this strongly now, we need to work to make this exemption permanent.
Good Luck..

jordanishere said:
Smartphones = computers. Its legal to do whatever you want with a computer so long as you do not commit cyber crime.
Desktop pc -> laptop -> notebook -> netbook -> tablet -> smartphone
All these devices are the same... the only difference between them is the size & spec. They are all essentially computers.
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Click to collapse
That's not entirely true. Some parts of all those devices might contain firmware that is copyrighted and encrypted. The DMCA would make it illegal to circumvent that firmware encryption. The only reason it's legal right now is because of the FTC exemption who ruled it's OK if we're not breaking any IP copyrights.
IMHO, SOPA/PIPA are all expansions on this kind of heavy handed lawmaking and is driven by the RIAA and MPAA. They've been going after 8 year olds and grandmothers just because they'll probably settle and pony up even tho they didn't do anything wrong. But don't misunderstand me. Piracy of IP is a big issue and should be dealt with but siphoning granny's bank accounts and making it illegal to mod your devices is not the way to do it.
We should be asking why we still need these laws if they can still go for an off-shore target like MegaUpload. I think they already have the tools they need and should stop legislating what I do with and to my technology. The scary thing is SOPA/PIPA are NOT DEAD... just tabled for now. I'd bet (not much) that once it's out of our recent memory they'll pass it so fast it'll be law before we can even fight it.

All this recent laws worry me more and more that we are loosing what so many fought and die for over the decades, it's being forgotten that it is By the People for the People not By the People for a few.
"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
Patrick Henry

why in the world would android continue to be open source then? as Well, HTC allows rooting of devices pretty easily, As well as samsung has their new open to the public Dev programs, so their probably gonna follow HTC with open rooting. I really doubt Android phone manufacturer's will let it go on for very long if it did end up being illegal. Why else does anyone else buy android phones? I think they know that.

xile6 said:
If this happens then no one would ever upgrade phones and the market would take a big hit. We true rooter would aways stay on old phones to keep root.
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Sammy has been kicking out Android phones with unlocked boot loaders from the get go (IN YOUR FACE HTC), so rooting and customizing is almost a given from the manufacturer, but not from the carriers. If it becomes illegal, then it becomes a slippery slope for all of us!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

lawalty said:
Sammy has been kicking out Android phones with unlocked boot loaders from the get go (IN YOUR FACE HTC), so rooting and customizing is almost a given from the manufacturer, but not from the carriers. If it becomes illegal, then it becomes a slippery slope for all of us!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/26/dmca-update-makes-new-phone-unlocking-illegal/

This makes me really sad... thanks op for bringing this up to attention. Not being able to root an Android device sucks a lot of fun outta it all.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app

It was just ruled that it is not illegal to Jailbreak an iphone, tablets may be a different story though. I haven't heard anything regarding android devices.. I would assume it falls under the same category.. Either way it's not gonna stop anyone from doing it
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

"Every generation needs a new revolution" -Thomas Jefferson
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app

Here is a guide for those who may be confused:
Rooting/Jailbreaking:
Smartphones - YES
Tablets - NO
Unlocking
If your phone was purchased prior to January 2013 - YES
New Phone - NO
Phones purchased after January 2013 can be unlocked with carrier's permission​
Unrelated:
Blind people can now use DRM stripping software to enable read-allowed function on eBooks purchased legally. However, to supply blind people with the software necessary to do so violates the "trafficking" provision under the rule, and is illegal.

What is not clear....
Carrier unlocking or bootloader unlocking...
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium

Carrier unlocking will be illegal, unless carrier approval.
C. Wireless telephone handsets – interoperability with alternative
networks
Computer programs, in the form of firmware or software, that
enable a wireless telephone handset originally acquired from
the operator of a wireless telecommunications network or
retailer no later than ninety days after the effective date of this
exemption to connect to a different wireless
telecommunications network, if the operator of the wireless
communications network to which the handset is locked has
failed to unlock it within a reasonable period of time following
a request by the owner of the wireless telephone handset, and
when circumvention is initiated by the owner, an individual
consumer, who is also the owner of the copy of the computer
program in such wireless telephone handset, solely in order to
connect to a different wireless telecommunications network,
and such access to the network is authorized by the operator of
the network.​
Bootloaders fall under the purview of jailbreak/root:
B. Wireless telephone handsets – software interoperability
Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to
execute lawfully obtained software applications, where
circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling
interoperability of such applications with computer programs
on the telephone handset.​
sdlopez83 said:
What is not clear....
Carrier unlocking or bootloader unlocking...
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
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HTC lowers Q2 expectations

Here are the "good" news for HTC...
Hopefully they will now care more about their customers and finally give us S-OFF devices and better customer support and not "kill" our warranty...
I guess they make a wrong decision ignoring people on XDA and dnt fix things faster and many customers were scared about buying a faulty flagship phone ?

muamers said:
Here are the "good" news for HTC...
Hopefully they will now care more about their customers and finally give us S-OFF devices and better customer support and not "kill" our warranty...
I guess they make a wrong decision ignoring people on XDA and dnt fix things faster and many customers were scared about buying a faulty flagship phone ?
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So what is your estimate of the number of people in the world who considered buying a HOX compared to the number of people on XDA who own a HOX? I suspect you'll find that even if everyone in this forum never bought another HTC phone, the effects on HTC's global profits would be less than noticeable.
Plus, if you actually read the article it tells you what the root causes of the dip in sales are.
I truly wish it were otherwise.

berek9999 said:
So what is your estimate of the number of people in the world who considered buying a HOX compared to the number of people on XDA who own a HOX? I suspect you'll find that even if everyone in this forum never bought another HTC phone, the effects on HTC's global profits would be less than noticeable.
Plus, if you actually read the article it tells you what the root causes of the dip in sales are.
I truly wish it were otherwise.
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"The main reasons for the sub-par performance are the lower than expected sales in Europe and the customs problems in the US (with Apple)."
They plane more and sell less ... if you ask me, thats because of the slow reaction on customers needs (not just for the OneX). For example, amazon UK has paused the OneX sales because to much returns.
The problems in the US dont affect this much because they had probably planed that Apple will stop the sales there, they always do such things (like they do now do with the SGS3).

Of course HTC will offer its shareholders a wealth of reasons for their abysmal performance, non of which, as a rule, due to bad management decisions.
Further, we at xda (and other forums) are the collective of lighthouse customers in this industry, who make or break devices. It's ancient american business theory that obviously hasn't reached over to either China yet.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

schiphol said:
Of course HTC will offer its shareholders a wealth of reasons for their abysmal performance, non of which, as a rule, due to bad management decisions.
Further, we at xda (and other forums) are the collective of lighthouse customers in this industry, who make or break devices. It's ancient american business theory that obviously hasn't reached over to either China yet.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
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Your thinly veiled patronising or racist (depending on how charitable a mood I'm in) swipe aside, the fact that you think that XDA is a major influence reveals your major bias.
Also I mean all American companies are friendly and cuddly and consumer friendly, I mean they wouldn't force RIAA and MPAA down the throats of other companies nor spread the cancer of BS software patents everywhere or engage in monopolistic or cartel behaviour or.... oh wait....
And if you're the kind of person who tells a non-techie friend not to get XYZ phone because the vendor doesn't support SOFF (in spite of the phone itself being very good) then well I guess everyone gets the friends they deserve.

I would imagine that 99% of smart phone buyers have no idea what s off is and would think think that rooting a phone involved burying it in mud, IMHO the smartphone market is driven by fashion 1st, specs second and apps third. HTC are in the same boat as all other android headset makers on points 2 and 3 but who can predict the fickle nature of fashion?

wintermute000 said:
Your thinly veiled patronising or racist (depending on how charitable a mood I'm in) swipe aside, the fact that you think that XDA is a major influence reveals your major bias.
Also I mean all American companies are friendly and cuddly and consumer friendly, I mean they wouldn't force RIAA and MPAA down the throats of other companies nor spread the cancer of BS software patents everywhere or engage in monopolistic or cartel behaviour or.... oh wait....
And if you're the kind of person who tells a non-techie friend not to get XYZ phone because the vendor doesn't support SOFF (in spite of the phone itself being very good) then well I guess everyone gets the friends they deserve.
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It's not about me telling my friends not to get a phone because it doesn't support s-off. It's about a collective of first adopters (generally thought to be around 13% of the total market), whose perception of a product acts as an inhibitor or catalyst for access to the remaining 87% of the market. I think it's no coincidence that HTCs decline started with abysmal early sales of the completely locked down Sensation.
Oh and the 99% that was mentioned here who supposedly wouldn't care. Think of this: titanium backup had already been installed 5M times by the time the total number of activated android phones had yet to reach 150M.
Edit: and I never said all American companies are customer friendly. But I would argue that they generally take the common sense approach of not actively cutting out early adopters from the markets they heavily depend on. O'well at least HTCs management saved some warranty expenses this year haha.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

OK, 95% I stand corrected

Fair use act and new the Final rule of 2012

" Jailbreaking or unlocking allows users to install non-vendor-approved software on cellphones and other electronic devices.But the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and other advocates of digital rights say that practice constitutes non-infringing use permitted under Section 117 of the Copyright Act. They urged the Copyright Office to renew critical exemptions to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as part of the rulemaking process it conducts every three years Ending previous jailbreaking exemptions, from 2006 and 2010, would lead to higher device prices, increased electronic waste, higher costs associated with switching service providers and widespread mobile customer "lock-in," according to the comments it submitted in December 2011. It applauded the decision of the Copyright Office to uphold those exemptions this past weekend." -http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/10/30/51815.htm
So with this ruling being made in the consumers favor, we are allowed to Jailbreak Iphones Ipods, I-everything, all handsets and so on except tablets. Why then are we locked on the Ion? Is this not an infringement on the law that allows us to do what we want, to an extent, to all devices? Is it under Sony or ATT that we have to seek the thing we long for? Sony doesn't even have live support for our phone and as I have heard Sony passes everything bad onto ATT and ATT to Sony. Is this a game we are in between Consumers, the law, and what the companies feel they should be able to do?
If this is the case is it not illegal for Apple to continually try to block Jail breaking attempts by developers? By law we are allowed to install software not provided by the producer.
So, who holds the key to the Ion? Why is the key kept from us? How will we get our hands on OUR key?

Yes we are allowed to jailbreak but that doesn't mean they have to provide us with the steps to do it or make it an easy process.
As for the ion and the bootloader its a tough call who is controlling it. Sony is the manufacturer yet they have an exclusive deal with AT&T to carry the phone. It would be interesting to see this court ruling applied against AT&T/Sony to get the bootloader unlock allowed but I doubt it will change anything as again nothing says they have to tell us how to do it or give us a procedure for it.

I wish the bootloader fell in this category but I don't think it does.
Sent from my LT28i using xda premium

Vfan23 said:
I wish the bootloader fell in this category but I don't think it does.
Sent from my LT28i using xda premium
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Ya, all this really covers is consumers having the right to install whatever apps they want on there devices. no matter where there from. Android is already open in this regard. Sounds like it more applies to apples locked down appstore. I'd be interested to see if ios will come with the option to install non market apps.