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Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
So far been pretty good reviews out there, really like how Gizmodo shows off the features in the video.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
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Click to collapse
It's very nice they like it. But this "unless there's a a radical "Android redesign" is equally silly and shows they're not really serious.
Reading such positive reviews is great, normally Gizmodo has been very critical of the OS.
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
Didn't gizmodo originally like WP7? I remember a billboard here in the UK with the Gizmodo quote "This changes everything"... Then after launch they proceeded to slag it off at any opportunity.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/
Everything looks good except for the multi-tasking feature...
It looks like iOS... it'll be nicer if its vert-scrolling like the main screen.
ryude said:
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
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If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
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xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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So by recommending Android basically they are saying no other phone is worth buying? I find that to be biased, since I have used and even developed for Android in the past. I happen to like WP7 more now, I would have never figured that out by asking sales reps I had to learn that myself.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
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Click to collapse
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
ohgood said:
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
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Click to collapse
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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I have seen some pretty piss poor analogies but this one takes the cake. The correlation makes absolutely no sense, and assigning a "brand" to bananas is crazy. But congrats Dole, people believe a sticker make your product better than Chiquita, or any other "generic" banana (what exactly is a generic banana?) which could have very well been picked off the same tree (since they also import bananas as well).
By the way, you walk in Best Buy and they are pushing Playbooks at you. That means they are the best option available?
There are more than a handful of customer associates that recommend what is in their best interests.
keyboardP said:
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
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excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
ohgood said:
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that WP7 should be praised and others condemned. Every platform has its pros and cons (and it would be nice to not have any obvious bias in articles), but there's been, IMO, some unjust biased against WP7 in many mainstream articles simply because it has the MS tag on it.
I agree about the hard numbers as it's what's keeping a lot of developers away. There are some big names coming through though (Amazon, Angry Birds, PopCap etc..), so there may be something. I think a lot of devs, including myself, are getting some apps out there for now, hoping that Mango really delivers.
iPhone certainly has a market, but with a Mac required to develop for it, it seems a bit too much of a barrier for me. Android is okay to develop for, and I loved the openness of pretty much being able to do what you wanted. However, despite the market share of Android, there's still not much evidence that developers can make any real money either. There are too many free apps which do the same as paid apps and when users are conditioned to believe everything should be free on your platform, that's not great for devs. I thought it was interesting that Angry Birds went for a free, ad-based model rather than a paid model considering they had already had a following. Any new IPs trying to do something similar probably won't have the same large following, thus making the ad revenue pretty low.
ohgood said:
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
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Click to collapse
Isn't the Windows Marketplace growing at an unprecedented rate? Fact or fiction? So why do poor sales matter to you? It seems like it is only for bragging rights since Windows Phone has had no shortage of app development or software updates.
I understand all the good reasons why strong sales are desireous. But at this point in time it does not matter to you if your neighbour did not buy a Windows Phone. The phone is still progressing at a positive rate.
Currently 24,447 apps in the window phone marketplace. That's huge considering it's only been out since October/November of last year? We could see 50,000 apps by the end of this year. With Mango's 1500 new API's and better live tile support/multi-tasking I see apps only becoming better and better.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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I have seen some pretty stupid things posted in this forum, but this has to be the dumbest. You're basically saying that Android is the "nice Dole banana" and WP is the "trash," and therefore, all sales reps are just doing their job by offering Android only and pushing you away from WP? Some of you people man... If you don't like the platform, just shut up... Touching on the actual topic, not only have I seen good reviews, but extensive ones, which I prefer much more... Whether the opinion is good or bad, I appreciate them taking a great deal of time outlining the platform...
Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
Click to expand...
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The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
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...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
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I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.
Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
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They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...
@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.
N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
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Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.
FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.
Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
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...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:
vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.
Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
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I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.
wmpoweruser.com recently posted the following article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/verizon-was-in-the-running-for-a-lte-windows-phone-but-turned-it-down/
Basically, the rumor is that Verizon has rejected LTE Windows Phones until at least the end of 2012 as well as any high-end Windows Phones..
???
Am I the only person who finds this very aggravating?
This probably isn't true
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
hunterjackson92 said:
What I heard was that Microsoft was having trouble making an lte phone
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
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Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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december, january, february, march-ISH
thats a looooong way off still in att time. given how eta dates tend to slip, well, you know.
(supposedly) Verizon asked microsoft for a roadmap, microsoft said 'meh'. You can't expect big red to commit to a marketing campaign for wp LTE devices, without a roadmap.
as awesome as LTE is, hopefully batteries will have a breakthrough before it's considered standard practice to be connected to that kind of connection all day long. ouch !
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
LoganNowak said:
Can't be that, because AT&T is getting LTE phones in March, which means they are very likely already done and just undergoing testing now.
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yea which makes me wonder if Nokia and MSFT perfected the battery life problem. A lot of companies are waiting for a new chip that better hndles lte radio.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
jason1175 said:
Well, to be clear, it's not just LTE phones but also any high-end Windows Phones. So it appears that Verizon blatantly does not want to support them. This is aggravating because I feel that Verizon has a responsibility to the consumers, not just their bottom line. Much of Android's success has been a result of Verizon's Droid campaign. Not to mention just about every phone in the Verizon store is an Android phone. So it would seem that Verizon is so far invested in Android that they will not welcome competition. This is what I find ridiculous.
If this is not the case then why only 1 Windows Phone(for which I own btw)? Would it be so bad to offer at least 2 options, one low-end and one high-end? This would allow both Microsoft and Verizon to gauge any potential success. With just one option compared to the multitude of options from Android, it just seems unfair.
I'm not looking to start an Android vs. WP7 flame war as I actually think they are both cool. My intent is to bring attention to and discuss the ridiculous way Verizon is handling the situation.
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i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
ohgood said:
i don't think Verizon dislikes wp, i think they don't have faith that the wp devices will be profitable (sell) in numbers to justify the outlay. Verizon likely has access to htc, samsung, nokia, and other phone hardware makers that might hint of what the actual sales numbers are, whereas microsoft isn't publishing them (to us). If Verizon thought they could make a killing, you should believe they'd be doing it.
Verizon loves the -profits- they make from android / iphone contracts, but would likely care less what OS was actually selling, so long as they (big V) was the one reaping the profits.
Give the ms roadmap (whatever it is) some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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The same reason they push their Android phones so hard, they have a huge investment in it.
jason1175 said:
But that's just it. It's a sort of catch-22. Verizon is arguably the largest carrier in the US and only provides a single WP7 option. You walk into a Verizon store looking for a new phone and you're immediately pointed to an Android powered phone. Ask an employee about a Windows Phone and they immediately say "it's not good" or "i don't know enough...but this Droid...".
So how would you see WP7 as profitable when this is what's happening? As I said previously, maybe just adding a couple more options would help. Why not have a low-mid-high end option set? Educate employees and have them offer it to consumers as a viable option.
Why not?
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Maybe wp7 has stigma already... I dunno. The re-education of salesfloor staff would cost money, and it would be ongoing given the turnover rate. <--- maybe why
There are so many catch22's dealing with new products of any kind. Apple has the mindshare that will buy -just- because its the new model, on whichever carrier has it. Verizon is enjoying the contracts the iphone brought, along with the benefits of a couple of "droid does" splashed across screens during football games.
Microsofts ads may be too far above the intellect of consumers to register ?
Lots of questions. Good ones.
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Don't know y they're hyping LTE so badly, just so they can overage people like crazy, especially with that NFL app that streams games in HD. Oooo weeee. Verizon SUCKS!!!
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Because lte manages their network more efficiently and its cheaper because the lte towers are smarter. Can do a lot of things on the tower instead of sending data to HQ
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
HTC bought S3, a graphics company, for $300MM USD in order to defend itself against an onslaught of competitors going after them for patent violations. Owning patents yourself forces a kind of detente as people won’t sue you for fear of you suing them back. Until now HTC’s been naked. In an earlier review last year a panel at the US Patent and Trademark Office said S3/HTC’s patents couldn’t be used against Apple. HTC appealed and a review handed down yesterday upheld the patent’s validity and Apple is now in violation of them. Ironically it’s for the Mac PC line, not mobile devices. At least now HTC has some sort of leverage against all the litigation being thrown at them by Apple.
Here’s what HTC said…
“We are gratified by the USPTO’s decision, which proves again that buying the patents from S3 was a significant and correct move for HTC.”
“We will continue to defend our interests and fight actively against any companies that infringe on our rights,” it said.
Here's the full story...
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2012/07/12/2003537510
Interesting Article. The power of patents just sometimes amuses me. Google bought Motorola for the same thing.
I fainted since the third word :victory: It's S3 actually..
The S3 bought over isn't recent article, HTC actually taking risks on the bought over of S3 from VIA since both of them are Cher Wang's. The actions may lead to some legal issues by taiwan laws that prevent on "arm-length transactions", they seems already get a pass from the verdict though.
Thanks for the link
awesome news and about damn time
but you want to tell me that out of all these patents HTC only got two? that are still under review
is it really worth it?
hamdir said:
but you want to tell me that out of all these patents HTC only got two? that are still under review
is it really worth it?
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You tell me? Apple got HTC's new phones stopped at the border for weeks by U.S. Customs based on just one patent. If HTC can get an import ban applied to Apple's new retina display Mac Books they've just started selling I think that would probably get Apple's attention.
HebeGuess said:
I fainted since the third word :victory: It's S3 actually.
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Chips, graphics companies, they're all the same. Thanks, I fixed it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/09/htc-suffers-crash-quarterly-profits
Words of wisdom from their CEO.
HTC will only comment when its audited results are published, but an email sent by the chief executive, Peter Chou, to employees in August urged staff to "kill bureaucracy". He complained: "We have people in meetings and talking all the time but without decision, strategic direction and sense of urgency."
obsydian said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/09/htc-suffers-crash-quarterly-profits
Words of wisdom from their CEO.
HTC will only comment when its audited results are published, but an email sent by the chief executive, Peter Chou, to employees in August urged staff to "kill bureaucracy". He complained: "We have people in meetings and talking all the time but without decision, strategic direction and sense of urgency."
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most company's are struggling in this present worldwide climate of recession and slow growth forcasts so its no major suprise really.
as with apple they want to take over the world there latest ios 6 and apple iphone 5 to be frank are crap.
I guess my slant was just taking Jellybean and all prior updates coupled with the bureaucracy comment from their CEO, maybe explains (as well as HTC Sense being more involved) why these guys are so s-l-o-w.
I think a 79% crash is far worse than the general industry.
Problem with HTC is the fact that they release too many low-cost handsets which don't sell very well and so they lose money quickly. I can't believe that they can't see this.
Also, another thing that's bad with HTC is the support for handsets. I bought Sensation XL back in June, sold it this week because tthey didn't confirm JB for it. I mean, it has been released in December 2011, not even a year of support for £400 handset?
H-Streety said:
Problem with HTC is the fact that they release too many low-cost handsets which don't sell very well and so they lose money quickly. I can't believe that they can't see this.
Also, another thing that's bad with HTC is the support for handsets. I bought Sensation XL back in June, sold it this week because tthey didn't confirm JB for it. I mean, it has been released in December 2011, not even a year of support for £400 handset?
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There's not enough money in the high end handsets, they need massively high volumes of low to mid tier handsets. Unfortunately that's devalued their brand and image too.
When they first started to shine... with the HTC Diamond (yes, they made plenty of devices beforehand, but that was the first consumer 'wow' phone). they were innovative. Sadly for 6 years they failed to capitalise on that, and massively let down their consumers with the 'Sense' hub that was cancelled (even thought they sold phones based on that feature).
Their industrial design was really nice with the Diamond too... a great balance of sophisticated and sexy (with their glowing circle etc).
They need to get back to basics... 1 Low, 1 Mid, 1 High tier - 3 devices. Forget the many variants.
It can't 'match' the competition, it has to better them by some margin.
It needs to ditch Sense, OR introduce a brand new Sense that puts 'sexy' back into the UI.
When was the last time a HTC owner truly wanted to show off their phone to friends, knowing they'd be impressed? They've lost the WOW.
But one bright thing in their favour. Samsung, Sony and Apple haven't managed to achieve 'WOW' yet. Great devices, yes, but not 'WOW'
They are still profitible and have plenty of cash in the bank so it's not as if their teetering on the edge. But investors and analysts are getting tired of each quarter seeming to accelerate their downward slide. With the One X+, XV, and 8X on AT&T and the illusive DLX on VZW they have a chance to really move some volume in the 4th quarter because of the size of those two carriers. If with all those major devices launching they don't see some improvement I expect them to be a merger or acquisition candidate early next year. Things can't continue as they are.
It is the trend that is worrying. Like it or not Samsung has the Android mindshare. HTC have themselves to blame may it be business decisions or management issues. HTC was Android's top manufacturer in the early days.
When people think Android, they think Samsung now. It could be better publicity, marketing, global image, or even court battles, etc.
thank u`
I will pick up HTC, not samsumg, i dont like to spend my money in cheap plastic, low benchmarks phones like sg3
I dont care numbers, marketing or selling, we know that not the all the world is smart, and that the marketing afects woman and child, thats what samsung is doing. Done.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
Htc is a billion dollar company making pinuts , I don't agree it's still profitable,when you deal with share holders. Loans ,there would be nothing left from the 100 Millions they made , HTC is like a million dollar company making 100 dollars and yet we're calling it profitable ,next 80% drop there wouldn't be anything to be profitable about
The problem is that htc dont feed me, dont give money, so... What s the point to talk about if htc make money or not, at least u r a sammy boy, really have no sense to talk about others money, just talk about how wonderful will be the best phone in earth with official jelly bean. I was right, next year sammy galaxy will be competing with LG. I told U. But well... Dont give up sammy, keep selling cheap, ugly designed phone with low bench, i forgot, sg boots in 10 secs, who cares.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
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Maybe the $2k from S-Off bounty thread could help them out a little lol
why is this thread being bumped
they still make profits, better than tons of other mega companies
grow up!
atrako1973 said:
HTC is like a million dollar company making 100 dollars and yet we're calling it profitable
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Being profitible isn't open to debate; it's black and white. If after paying all their bills and servicing any debt they have a $100 left they're profitible. That also means their cash flow positive (not drawing on reserves to cover expenses). That's obviously not a great position for a multi-billion dollar global company but as Mark Twain said - "rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
Not suprised, it'll be all the bloody HOX's they've had to replace.
LAWL
tbh im not that suprised, i had enough of the htc one x, not lasting the day - unable to change the battery and having to carry around a seperate charger that i kept forgetting to charge,
Ive owned htc devices since xda days and they have always been to me the best phones around imho, hackabilty without losing warrenty was also a big bonus which always extended the life of the handset.
the one x is the the first htc phone ive owned ive not hacked, after having a dhd fail after 1.5 years i was worried about losing the warrenty.
I think thats where htc are going wrong, samsung have an excellent range of hackable devices (ok touch wiz is crap and superamoled is still infantacy) but the phones have some really cool features that would make the one x and the rest of the line shine - removable battery being foremost in my mind. Being able to change leds, fonts asigning keys all without having too root is what is making the difference between the two manufactors to the end users like us.
Sense is nice and polished but has become stale over time and locked down, getting a new phone with htc isnt the wow factor any more, htc need to bring that back - having to wait for months unless you voided your warrenty to remove the 3 dot menu button made the phone a joke.
i personally wish htc all the best for the future and hope they sort themselves out on future products - getting a nexus line would be a cool advancement, but i think they willl carry on making the same mistakes year in year out.
they need to be reminded they are not apple and cannot lock the devices down to a android community, thats whats coming back to bite them at this time.
Wooow, again our hox forum full of trolling samy boys, so Hox keeps on the top.
Why hox owners dont go to sg3 forums? Cause there is no need.
Why samy boys come here?
I will told u why, cause hox is the best phone in earth, not matter what u wanna troll.
I love my gaming hox. Tegra games, sony psmobile games, well... You know, its not samsung, it s HTC. :thumbup:
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
Don't be so small minded, I'm not trolling but stating why I think HTC is having issues after OWNING THE HOX for quiet some time, so any word said against HTC is trolling, good luck with that.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Yeah, funny.
Hox is the best phone in earth and everytime we, hox users, are waiting for updates or good news, well, post like this suddenly appears. Nothing new under the sun.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1