Related
Well, while browsing the forum I've observed such a wrong attitude: moderators are closing topics where people makes comparison between different things, may it be ROMS, software, etc.
Examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=428372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=449641
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454243
Sorry, but the moderation team SHOULD know the following:
- there are people that have tested many ROMS/applications
- there are people who don't have time to test n applications/ROMS
So what's wrong if ONE that had tested multiple ROMs share his opinions with the rest? What's wrong in telling us about the most stable ROM? I've also read something like "Test all the ROMS and see what's the best for you".. So, for eg, I have to flash all the ROMS to find out which one is the most stable .. instead reading other user suggestion that had already done that.. So WRONG and redundant.
Of course you can read other users opinions about a ROM in its dedicated thread , but a summary thread it's most valuable for many of us.
So, please, do not restrict this kind of topics!
There are some good posts (maybe even by me ) on why these threads are a bad idea, but I cannot find one of them for the life in me. So off the top of my head...
These threads are very subjective, each person has there own opinion on what a good ROM is and (maybe more inflamtary) who their favorite chef is.
There have been ROM review threads in the past, that's not a problem - PURESKILLZ flashed reviewed every kaiser ROM for a while (with screen shots).
And most moderators will let a "Can you recommend me a good arabic* ROM" thread, if correctly placed.
*Replace with some other niche requirement.
The main problem is ROM's come and go, I remember when Dutty's Hybrid Kaiser ROM's were the Dogs Bollocks, now I prefer something newer. Even what I prefer changes daily, last week it was minimal plain today screens, this week I felt like a Full Manila 2D ROM. How can this sort of thing be maintained? A collection of conflicting opinions of many users. How would chefs feel if people started to rate them against on anyother, i.e. is Noonski better than Dutty? Also, the threads are often started by noob's and never maintained so will soon become redundant.
The easiest way to see the latest ROM's is to check the 1st page or 2 of the "[device name] ROM development / Upgrading" forum.
Also, this is a Development site, Kyphur say's it best here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Thanks
Dave
If these kinds of posts would have proven to help they'd probably would be allowed.
They can serve the developers.
The prove of this is that some Comparison threads are still alive and kicking, because they compare in a professional manner
But in most cases they turn into nasty Food Fights that manage to get the developers of the apps being compared to give up because of the rudeness of the posts.
So as helping and creating an environment for Developers has a higher priority then having people express their opinions we'd rather not take the risk.
PS: Dutty is better then me.
But we both make different PERSONAL decisions on what we do. See the keyword "Personal" even thought everyone knows better, it's very easy to take it personal even when it ain't. Some handle it better then others, but why make life harder?
To repeat and possibly elaborate on what my esteemed colleagues have already stated:
A good Comparison Thread for Roms, Applications etc can always be useful. The problem is that "Which is the best" is a very subjective thing and so often the posters get into verbal sparring in defense of their fav at the moment.
There have been examples of good comparison threads where a complete analysis of each Rom/Application was given but the the "Fanbois" have come in and polluted the thread to the point that it just had to be trashed.
Read the post in my signature (and many others I've noticed) about "What is XDA-Devs?", enjoy the journey by trying them yourself....
I can see your point guys.. and you are right.. But you must agree that even if the user isn't developing something for WM/mobiles that doesn't mean that he's stupid or smth. That's true that many people ask really dumb questions for such site..
What motivates a developer? Feedback and money. Yes, feedback. Feedback coming from regular users. Why are developers releasing ROMS? Because they want to help others (esp. regular users, non-dev segment). Why some developers are releasing more versions frequently? Yes, because of feedback. Because they know that they don't work in vain. Even negative feedback is extremely good. It makes you to do the work better, to work more on it. Competition (vs things) is also good.
If this site was meant only for developing proposes then almost all the information was meant for: learning, sharing, evolving. And I mean only in "development style".
Also, here we can see many forums dedicated to Applications, even themes. Actually there are MORE forums for this instead for Development. See my topic "Development and Hacking" should be splitted. This should be addressed ASAP. If xda-developers is more organized in this area maybe more valuable developing information will be found.
You are all right but you miss one point, your work without the regular people is in vain. Let's say you talk here only about developing , but if you release an application you feel that you want to share it with the rest.. but if there are only developers , who can and know to program the application, then there's no joy..
If there is no question, there's no answer.
So I must say you should be more flexible with comparison threads and if someone post in "noob style" just warn/suspend him. Even if we are subjective, many of us have same tastes. Plus the user can point/explain why he choose that ROM/app. But you're right ,many people just don't elaborate it's choice, some say only "x is the best" without anything more
Sorry if I was not too coherent, I don't feel so good
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham
Those who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham.....
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments .....
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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My 2 cts:
Nicely put, but (in my opinion) you still miss some points:
-value judgments are allowed, everybody is free to post their opinion about a certain ROM in the appropiate thread (obiding the rules of decency ofcourse).
So some of your quotes aren't applicable.
-There is no "best ROM", just as clearly there is no best "politial party", not a "best religion" or the "best way to raise a kid", that is because everybody have different needs, different values, and different ways of observation.
What is good for one, is bad or even harmfull for another, or just an insult. Please keep that in mind.
And because of this phenomena general threads like best ROM don't add value but only clutter, it's impossible to get general consensis.
Objective threads on the other hand are constructive.
You can take a variable like speed, indexing etc and measure that, and everybody knows that eg. a higher value for speed is better.
I think we tend to keep the forum as it is: a developers forum, so we naturally tend to judge numbers, and we attach higher values upon numbers that on personal feelings.
Disclaimer:
Please note that this post is a reflection of my own opinion and should not be seen as the general opinion of the moderator team or XDA-developers!
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset MaughamThose who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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Click to collapse
I think you've really completely missed the point. The logic behind closing these threads is very simple, and has been already stated many times. It was determined long ago that these type of threads do more harm than good, and as such was made a rule here at XDA long before most of the people complaining about this issue even joined the site. Since it's a rule, the moderators enforce it.
It's nice to think that the "best app/rom" threads could somehow be a good place where healthy discussion could flourish, and users could provide constructive praise & criticism, but anyone who does any quantity of reading knows that the majority of people interested in "best rom/app" threads don't have any basis for constructive criticism, as they probably haven't flashed enough roms to know the difference between them.
As for you example of Manila2D/Manila3D, we all know that came to replace HTC Home for a very simple reason, which is that people want what's new, even if it isn't better. In that particular example i happen to prefer the manila interfact to HTC Home, but as a general rule it still remains true. That's why users who can't even read an error message to figure out they need to install netcf are always installing beta software, and then filling threads with questions. Not that i'm against them trying new software, but if you're gonna start something that's over your head, you oughta get prepared to start learning.
Anyway, I suppose the point to all of this is mostly the same as what Mike said, which is that obviously we can see the conceptual value to having these threads where users could post the things they do/don't like about roms/apps, but like many things in live it just doesn't work out in the way it should. Since users are allowed to post their thoughts and their criticisms about a rom in the thread for that rom, where the chef will definiitely read it, I don't feel like we're impeding anyone's ability to voice their opinions. All we require is that they are respectful when they share it.
I will admit to being one of the mods who may be, in your opinion, quick to squelch these best of threads.
When asked why I was closing so many "Which is the Best ROM" threads in the Kaiser section, I replied the following.
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop personal opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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Those are still my sentiments. I once asked Scotchua about his favorite ROM. I tried it, and honestly I didn't like it. But that's ok, Scotchua and I have different priorities. As most people do.
There was once a thread, again in the Kaiser Section, (Can you tell what phone I use?) asking what the best IM app was. That thread is still open today. The Discussion was very civil and spoke of the equatable statistics of each IM app. Like which ones used proxies, which ones didn't, what once were free, and which ones cost. Since these programs were focused on the same end goal, To Send IMs via MSN, AIM or Yahoo!, it was easy to compare.
But this is not the case with ROMs, NATF started off making "Lean" ROMs for the Kaiser, while Leo was making "Fully Loaded" ROMs. These are two different categories that cannot be compared as easily.
Once again thank you for all your input, just remember, you can win all the battles.
woohoo...mike boy...you have hit 10 stars....
btw...yep...completely off-post but i hav a feelin this thread is gonna be trashed soon
A Little Toungue in Cheek
Very... Very well done. If anyone ever questions the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the Mods , they should be directed here. Well thought out answers (I personally am against this type of thread) and nicely conveyed opinions.
When and if another of these threads are closed, I think that this link should be attached, so that the OPs will know that thought was put into the closure and it was not done randomly.
Okay, now to those that think a thread like this could be constructive, I propose a test thread. But let us substitute some thing else for " roms " so as not to alienate any chefs EH............... lets say countries. Here is the new test thread
I am new here and I am trying to determine , " What is the best overall country in the world? " Could someone direct me please?
Okay, I will kick it off.......America, I have found to be the best, land of the free and all that.
agree with Mods
I completely agree with our Mods here, to allow these threads to exist would basically cause competition between the chefs, and that is something that should never happen. In the short time that I have been a member of this site I have learned ALOT by doing my own search, homework, and asking questions. I have made alot of friends on here and have very much grown to, dare I say "love" this site. I would hate to see this site turn into a competition site between chefs. If that happened there would probably be a reality tv series started AbC, CBS, etc... would be trying to buy rights to air "KAISERS HELL KITCHEN" lol, but seriously if there is a competition between chefs we would be loosing out due to the chefs not wanting to share their knowledge, because they are trying to out due each other. they would all be trying to keep their "trade secrets" out of "enemy" hands i guess you could say.
there would be no winner, just alot of us loosing out just to make things easier for newbs instead of them working, reading, and learning as we all have. i've heard some newbs say that they want this because they don't have time like the "regular" members on here do, and one post really kinda brought to lite the lack of motivation to learn: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3115995&postcount=12 a way they can tell now what roms are hot is check out how many veiws a thread has had, people flock to the popular threads don't they? it also goes back to personal opinion and experience, ex: if two people flash the same rom and one uses the wrong hardspl, radio, and doesn't hard reset and the other does all right who's kaiser will work properly, next you have that newb that didn't use the right spl, radio, etc.. telling everyone that the ex. rom is buggy when in all reality it is not.
All depends on what you want
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
BPB21 said:
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
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Good summary, but I would recomment Switzerland instead of Sweden
Dave
mikechannon said:
WTF. Jeeeeesh.... where do you guys get off..... Switzerland, Sweden.... pahhhh! I say. It's obvious to those WHO BOTHER TO RESEARCH and do A BIT OF READING that Norway is the ONLY option here that is worth the attention of anyone with a brain cell count exceeding a single digit.
Mike
PS
Yes of course if a poster asks for suggested ROMs and in doing so gives a very detailed list of requirements, then the thread would not be closed.
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I've changed my mind and retract Switzerland.
Norway? What are you on Mike
It has to be Malta. (This could go on all week, so I'll stop)
Dave
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
Agree with Mods
I completely agree with the Mods (also I use very low end devices, with not a lot of cookers)!
Because we all have our preferences when thinking which ROM is better, I may be ready to sacrifice anything for say speed or asthetics, but there may be pple (a lot of them) who want a mix of two. So what is best for me may not be best for you. And also there is no Sysoft Sandra like software in the mobile arena (sktools comes close) which can judge the actual performance of ROMs. Plus their tests are not what real life situation based. They are doing one thing at a time, while in real life, you are listening to a song or watching a video or surfing and a call or sms comes. So personally I prefer no comparisions. Come on the chefs burn a lot of mid night oil to cook this ROMs (and most of the users, including me don't donate a penny!), so what we can atleast do is give two hours of our 'valuable' time to check out their ROMs by ourselves. And we are so busy, then keep the original ROM and don't consider upgrading .
But its just my opinion nothing personal. I have tested nearly all ROMs in the Vox forum and Gene forum (for new Genes), and I am not a student , a working professional.
msd24200 said:
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
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I have relayed your Offer, as i'm not in any position to judge or say anything about it.
Thanks.
ok i hope i dont get banned
1st i agree with the mods ....asking questions that wont get "logical" answers will get you flammed even by jrs like me. BUT i will take adavntage of this situation. we have alot of mods all on 1 thread "that hasnt been close" soooo whoever has a kaiser can you advise me on a stable fast lite "preferably" rom that DOESNT freeze up when texting "its already getting warm!!!" i have tried many roms and cabs with no success ive even put on an aprion :used a kitchen tool" but still nothing. I EVEN GOT A REPLY FROM DUTTY HIMSELF "ull never guess how many pms he gets" so instead of walking around blind openning new threads ima be a smart kid and ask the smarter ppl! always works for me.
Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english
As a member of XDA i am proud that there is a place where people, ideas and developers can come together to work out problems and create new, better, faster software.
I love the ideas and the creations here, but i am somewhat tired of the negativity and "flaming" going on in some of the forums. Specifically Samsung Galaxy forums, with each passing day/week there is an exponentially increasing amount of NEW THREADS, pretty much dedicated to venting anger at the phone's manufacturer. While some claims do have merit (crappy GPS), other complaints are ill-researched, (samsung to blame for not releasing froyo, how did rogers release it to me?).
There was even a "Supposed" samsung rep. SamsungJohn, who reached out to the captivate community on the behalf of Samsung. (once again supposedly) If he was in fact from samsung he received the WORST welcome from the community, he was badgered and hammered with anger before given a chance to explain what his goal/role here was. In a recent post it was referred to him "stepping on the XDA hornets nest". Honestly it looked more like a forum full of angry 10 year olds, although to be COMPLETELY FAIR, 99% of the members "flaming" (to SamsungJohn or in other posts) ARE NOT DEVELOPERS OR PROGRAMMERS just bored people that feel XDA is a good place to vent anger. IT IS NOT.
If you have actual hardware problems with your phone, flood the manufacturers forum NOT OURS! If they had as many complaint posts as we do on a public forum they wouldn't be able to deny any issues exist, you could link to them, they would be right there, ON THEIR SITE.
I love my phone, for any flaws it has, any other phone will have another, sometimes we can fix it here, sometimes we cant. It is understandable in this day and age that many times products are rushed out the door and moved on to the next. Its the world we live in today. Accept it or check out..
Please remember XDA is a place to come together for ideas and working out problems NOT NEEDLESSLY COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM!!!
Speak my man!Perhaps that is the most right opinion I've seen on the forums!
PS:Love your PC setup dude!If it had a 69xxHD ATi it would be my dream machine!
Peace, love, harmony. Everyone, repeat. Hehe.
There will always be flaming. We have pretty diligent moderators that find the offending members and take proper action. Everyone can help out here just by being nice to one another. This is a community. A community benefits when its citizens are helpful, friendly, and contributive.
Well said! The forum needs more people to be constructive in their postings rather than petulant and needy.
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
mputtr said:
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
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if i was a moderator or web dev of this site the message would pop up, and you would have to agree before veiwing the forums!
I know its been getting bad. But they have stepped up and got more moderators. So it will get better. Plus all the new devices that keep getting added. So much for everyone to keeo up with. Thats why as you know the report post is there. Helps alot.
@OP, I couldn't agree more with you, with the recent influx of new users into XDA via their new purchases and nearly everyone owning a smartphone we will have to adapt to them and their misconceptions of what XDA is. Although they may misunderstand what we are about we are always trying to show them what our roots were and still are today. We try to keep it under control to the best of out abilities, but with a ratio of moderators to members being 40:1,000,000 it can be an uphill battle at times. Thanks for sharing your opinion and we hope to improve down the road.
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
Trusselo said:
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
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Click to collapse
yep, we have this in place. They are called Forum Specific Moderators, and have a title like
"HTC XYZ Forum Moderator"
They are responsible for a small number of forums, to try and spot this stuff
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
Trusselo said:
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
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Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
pulser_g2 said:
Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
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Click to collapse
well that explains a lot
Hopefully we get a new mod soon!
Herp Derp Captivate XDA
Even with the influx of immature morons, this place is still two thousand times more coherent and mature than any iPhone modification related forum.
I swear, all I see over on those boards are a bunch of people crying and cursing and yelling and making threats because jailbreaks and unlocks are slow to release.
I am loving your new member posts, very informative and a great way to get informed about this site!
Agreement
I completely agree with you man.
I think we need two things,
First of all, people who respect the earth and its benefits.
And secondly, some respectful people who watch and guide people who don't know the value of being beneficial and so respectful, one by one.
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------
I really consist with this oppinion that an improved society just can born and keep on by everyone's usefull endeavour. In the other word a wise intellectual man/woman cann't grow up and even say a little bit of his/her knowledge in a tidy palce.
So, be in the way and enjoy your home.
Hopping success and enhancement.
I could not agree with you more.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using XDA
This is the truest thing in the world. Been happening a lot on my devices forum, the flaming amongst members and devs.
It just shouldn't happen
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attract any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
trevd said:
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attrach any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
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Click to collapse
Hi, I am new to XDA, and I just wanted to express my admiration of your ideas, as well as to the OP, truly a superb insight.
Idea: There should be a demarcation of topics and subforums known as the Noob forums. Unless and until you contribute something OTHER than a post (eg, a ROM, theme, or hack perhaps), you remain in the Noob forums.
Good idea?
Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Click to collapse
I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Click to collapse
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
FIRST OF ALL, THIS THREAD IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS XDA!
When I get interested in something and look for a forum on the subject, I look for the BEST forum on the subject. When I became interested in Android phones and looked for a forum, in became obvious to me VERY quickly that XDA was THE superior forum by far; but what 'superior' means is, I think, what I would like this discussion to be about...
It was quickly obvious to me that XDA was the forum where the developers were. This, in itself, made XDA the superior forum, obviously it seemed to me. Having access to developers is certainly a priceless ability to have. Also, AFIK, new developments tend to get posted on XDA before other Android forums (though, I must admit, while I am familiar with some other Android forums, I very rarely visit them, other that by occasional Google search results, and even then, I try to seek out XDA results).
I would certainly NOT say this is the best Android forum for new users who are unwilling to search or use their brain, however new users, even if N00b's, will do fine if they respect the standard protocols.
HOWEVER... I have recently begun to wonder... is this the best Android forum to get help with your questions? If you want to question a dev on XDA about one of his/her apps, then probably yes, but what about more GENERAL questions? Is XDA really more oriented towards higher issues, such as app development?
I personally enjoy helping people with their questions, but I have found difficulty with getting responses to my questions sometimes. I feel certain that there are users on XDA that would KNOW the answer to my question, but of course, I am well aware they have better things to do with their time than answer my questions (which means no disrespect) which the likely never even see.
As I say, I have visited the other Android forums very little. I am wondering if those forums are a better place for these general types of questions? So, I welcome a discussion on anyone's opinion on other Android forums vs XDA...
I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion
mark manning said:
I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion
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I agree, thanks, but I don't want to create any friction between mods (see my PM).
I will not bite you, however you respond!
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)
rsngfrce said:
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)
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Well I'm new here myself and I've found it's relatively easy to find information here. The forums seems pretty active. It's a lot better than Bitcointalk that's for sure.. I haven't seen a bigger cesspool of trolls of fud anywhere on the new lol
As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.
KidCarter93 said:
As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.
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As I said from the beginning, it was obvious to me very quickly that XDA was far and away the BEST Android forum. That is why I chose it and though I did register on one or two other forums, I have rarely ever visited them (other than, as I mentioned, through Google searches).
For best discussion purposes, I don't think we should focus on my specific issues with getting questions answered (even though they did somewhat provoke this thread). I have a Sprint Galaxy S4, not an unpopular phone or inactive forum, and I feel I am able to express my issues relatively well. However, I finally left that forum with my question, having gotten nowhere (though my issue is VERY unusual) and went to the general Galaxy S4 forum, and received the best help I have received from a user from outside the USA who was totally unfamiliar with Sprint system software, but made general recommendations that I found greatly helpful. However, I am just one person and I digress somewhat...
I would think it would be fair to say that XDA is NOT the best Android forum for users who want to be spoon-fed (unless, perhaps, they limit themselves to N00B friendly threads)... I am personally not as annoyed by these types of people as many are, but I certainly see many here who are (how often do you see, "read the OP")... I was recently following a thread where a new user kept being referred to the OP, even though clearly it WAS NOT answering his question (which was outside of my personal knowledge, though I did try). Perhaps there are better Android forums for these types of people (not referring to the person in the last example) than XDA?
OR... maybe just send them to one of zepplinrox' threads :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32472429&postcount=15372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32475760&postcount=15374
All forums are good since they are all providing free tutorials which help the users .
The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up , thing which require a good paid server and monthly payments .. other forum owners simply do not afford paying for the fees each month from the simple reason that once the visitors are getting big in numbers the forum server also do require some server updates . So thanks XDA owners for keeping this forum up !!
alin razvan said:
...The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up...
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WOW... you're leaving yourself a little wide open with that comment I think...
(No offense intended...)
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
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Now that's the kind of strong opinion I was looking for! :good: (Whether we choose to agree or disagree...)
the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
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Actually, that was exactly the response I wanted to hear when I started this thread (and from a MOD too!). It is not for me to say whether that is right or wrong (or for anyone else to say, IMO), everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I started this thread. But I guess I am interested in what percentage of users here feel that way? I am SURE it is a larger percentage than at other Android forums. However, that may be made somewhat irrelevant by this forum having (I AM ASSUMING) a larger user base than the other Android forums, so when that percentage is removed, there are still more users here interested in supporting others. And, of course, I am not saying this is or is not a support forum. Opinions are what I want! :good:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)
rsngfrce said:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)
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hah! I have no idea to be honest! Seems to be a sort of link between Scottish bands using didgeridoos for some reason...perhaps because they sound good played together with bagpipes :good:
Hi All Dear XDA Members,
As most of you will know, I'm XDA addict and active member who started a lot of threads in order to try to keep XDA as organized as possible (see: the Q&A/T thread template: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46281795&postcount=4, which also contains the links to the Index project and the Ask Away help thread). Yet, I noticed that XDA has become so huge that it's grown out of it's "jacket". It became a forum which looks like a "forest which can not been seen because of all the trees". Newcomers can hardly find their way in this forest, ( They still keep registering to our forum but hardly post anything, let alone that they will start a thread) even more experienced users have difficulties or stop develeloping new ROM's and/or Threads. The layout of XDA is, speaking in modern terms, old fashioned at this very moment and if there will be no facelift within a short while, XDA is IMHO doomed to follow certain social media, who are loosing a lot of followers at this very moment. If you are familiar with social media, you know exactly which media I'm referring too. So, that's the reason I started this thread: How can we resuscitate XDA, cause that's what's needed, to be and stay future proof? IMHO, XDA is one of the, if not the, most important Smartphone forum and it should stay that forever, but changes are needed to achieve this. One of the changes could be a chat function, but most of all there needs to become a new a structure of how XDA is build up untill now. I'm convinced that the XDA staff is aware of this and working very hard to keep XDA future-proof. As it is now, it will be very hard to compete with the modern social media applications. I'm a diehard fan of XDA and that's why I started this thread. Making XDA future proof will be a hell of a job and therefore the staff of XDA can use IMO input from members, like you and me. Just plain and simple: I ask you all to come with information, suggestions and ideas how to make XDA future proof. Help the staff of XDA in this huge project of keeping it alive , kicking and well. Vbulletin is not the most ideal platform anymore, we need something else (see Reddit, etc).
kindest reards, kuzibri
BTW1: I do not suggest that XDA should use the Reddit platform or something the like
BTW2: A more social media approach would and could benefit XDA in the near future.
BTW3: I'm a great fan of the XDA Labs app for Android. Maybe an idea as a starting point?
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
This forum has grown MASSIVELY since it was first started back in 2002. I think we now have over 6.6 million members. The vbulletin forum platform was never really intended to handle such a large amount of content or userbase.
We've been on the vbulletin forum platform for a long time now. We've made a large amount of custom modifications, plugins, and tweaks, in order to add a lot of what you see in the forums today. A lot of it is the things you don't see behind the scenes. The massive amounts of custom coding that has been done, that cannot be easily transferred to other systems.
Of course we are aware that the forums are at breaking point in terms of capacity of both content and users. And of course other platform configurations are becoming more popular, with sites such as Reddit. But making a switch to another platform would be a massive massive undertaking. It's not like we can just copy and paste the database.
We are aware that this type of platform is aging, and needs to be kept a little more up to date. And I know the owners are well aware of all of this. It's not that they don't care. They do, more than anything. XDA is their baby, they are heavily invested in it, and they want it to keep growing and to remain the world's premier Smartphone development forums.
I don't know much personally, but I do know there are long term plans to look at updating or switching platforms, to better accommodate the sheer amount of users, and the large amount of valuable content. it will come, but due to the sheer scale of the task, it's going to be a very long term project for the owners I'd say.
MishaalRahman said:
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
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I have some ideas which are not ready yet to be posted/published, that's why I started this thread, hoping to get some usefull information and ideas.
BTW, it's not only the layout that needs an update, but the entire structure of XDA in order to stay future proof.
kindest regards, kuzibri
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
svetius said:
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
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yes a chat product is needed
The messaging part is very complicted for me till now
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
Webern said:
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
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We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
Darth said:
We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
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Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
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Hi my dearest friend,
I realy think that you are perfectly fit to be a moderator, but it's of course up to you. I just suggested a new way of appointing Mod's and recommended you and Robbie'for the job. I really think that good and active RC's can become a Mod without going to the whole XDA process that's needed to become one. They are very short of Mod's, so make the process easier for active RC's.
BTW, I have all the time in the world since I retired a few months ago!!
kindest regards, kuzibri
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
kuzibri said:
Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
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Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
Darth said:
Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
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Hi,
thanks for the lenghty explanation, all clear. Was just a suggestion to solve the shortage of Mod's in an easy and fast way.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Robbie P said:
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
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Yes my very dear friend, I'm still around. Due to the shortage of Mod's @Darth mentioned, I proposed to make the most active and valuable RC's a Mod without going to the entire XDA process that's needed for that. But as you can read by the answer of @Darth this is no possibility at all. IMHO, they missed the "train" in that by staying to their rules (which of course I can understand fully), cause, also IMHO, very good RC's (they are not appointed as Recognized Contributors for nothing and this title is closely related to and in line with the work of Mod's, e.g. helping people to find the right way or reacting on wrong posts by reporting them, only Mod's have much more power) are also capable of becoming good Mod's with a newly developed guidance/manual from the Mod's committee what are the demands for an RC to become a Mod in this new way. Maybe this idea is too revolutenary at this very moment, but the saying is: "when you do not shoot, you can also not miss". Of course, when this suggestion would be accepted, the Mod's committee should keep a close eye on these RC's and look if they are fit to be a Mod or not, if not, they will be an RC again. Seems logical to me,
kindest regards, kuzibri
Suggestions
Hi all,
any other suggestions to make XDA future proof?? Cause at this very moment XDA is, certainly for new members, a labyrinth. In general, even despite the introduction of XDA Assist, they cannot find their way to what they are looking for, so XDA needs to become more accessible and easier to navigate. In fact the entire site should be redesigned, but due to the massiveness of this site, this is an unrealistic task, unfortunately.
kindest regards, kuzibri
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
zelendel said:
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
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Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
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Really? How many devs do you see having conversations that mean anything with users? One of the biggest complaints from devs are the users. Mostly due to the fact that they won't do anything for themselves. Why do you think most teams use things like slack, or telegram (the devs don't really even talk much there in the public rooms, they have private ones set up in the side to talk shop) when I say dev I mean the real devs. Not script kiddies and compile jockies.
That is what xda stood for. It is no longer that way.
Nothing is future proof. Never has been never will be. It will end just like the days of freely modding your device. It all ends.
Hi my very dear friends,
no more new ideas or suggestions how to keep XDA future proof? It's my personal idea that the interest in posting on XDA is rapidly diminishing. If true, this would be a very disappointing way to handle XDA. It meant and still means IMHO a lot for members and newbies to be informed about the latest innovations regarding smartphones and giving them details about it. Also for helping people to get out of trouble with their device or solve other problems, XDA is the place to be. Whenever there are no reactions to this post within two weeks, I will ask a friendly Mod to close this thread. The reason for this is the presumable lack of interest in this subject and thereby there exists no need anymore to continue it nor to keep monitoring it.
kindest regards, kuzibri