Develop Bugs

Note to NOOBS. You're really annoying. READ! - REMIX

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work or if you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum. Questions like...my keyboard is wrong and it doesn't look different or I can't connect to the internet are redundant. Those questions have been asked, answered and fixed OVER-AND-OVER AGAIN....WHY KEEP ASKING?
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
When I posted this the first time I was trying to prevent what has eventually happened. We've lost one of our genius rom Chefs. So...thanks guys!
Admins....
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from they'll use that period of time to read. Because if they choose to install a rom and they know they can't post a question they'll probably be more apt to read.

I agree with Xultar that a minimum registration period before posting should be enforced, and any BLATANT stupidity should reset the period.
This seems like the best idea. Someone mentioned having a sub forum only accessible by experienced members. Denying read access to the masses however would make this a very exclusive club, which I do feel strongly about.
I am still a relative noob, but found this site and was reading away well before getting my first WM device. It was partly this site that gave me the confidence to try such a device instead of a dumb phone. If I had looked around and seen only the stupid questions, with an inaccessible sub forum that I could not read, then I would have moved on elsewhere and not discovered all the things I have.
I guess it all depends what the key developers here want to achieve. If it is an exclusive club where everyone is a technical whiz then OK I am screwed and will miss this forum. That decision is however entirely theirs to make and no one has the right to tell them what they should or should not do or judge them in any way.
Along with many who do try to avoid asking stupid questions and do try and RTFW first, I can only hope that they choose to try and spread the word so to speak - don't mean to sound all preachy and religious - and that a way can be found to reduce the hassle they get from morons.
I remember seeing one of Sleuth's posts - he said he took no responsibility if anyone chose to use that bit of software and if you bricked your phone it was on you and hard luck. He also added that if that did happen, he would however do his best to help fix any issues. Exactly what I wanted - I knew the risk and choice was mine, but knowing that someone with a lot of knowledge would try and help was very reassuring.
Anyway, thanks to all the deveopers who have helped with the Hermes forum, and to anyone who wants to flame me, just please keep it civil. (There has been rather too much rudeness recently, as tensions seem to have increased... - just my view)

I agree, a "seniors only" forum section would be advantagous but would repell alot of potential members.
I made my guides to help the newbies along the way but i have always said to read the threads and RTFM in order to increase thier knowledge of the various things we do here. Yet still I get very STUPID questions which have been addressed in the guides, why should I write them if people arent going to read them correctly!?!? (rant over hehe) Thankfully on the whole I havent had so many annoyances as jass and the rest have.
I figure this is like a game of lemmings, theres only so many levels you can go through guiding them on the way before you lose your rag and blow them all to hell!!
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.

As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???

mrvanx said:
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.
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I agree - I joined up before you could even SIM unlock without going through EMEI check. I joined up so as to learn about my device and then help spread the knowledge if I could.
It will be harder to sift out those hit and run artists however. Perhaps say a three month delay before you can download or post? removes the quick fix junkies hopefully - although unfortunately many will now be registered already. Perhaps if the post count is under an arbitrary number then the posting delay would come in, but you could PM a moderator to show you had not asked silly questions and get it revoked? Maybe too much work for mods though.

Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......

chrisjasper said:
Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......
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hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.

Good luck sport, maybe now you will have more free time and your wife wont be taking your credit cards away......

Great ideas.
Let's just add taking money for reading the posts (and sending money to the posters) and we will kill this forum forever.
The whole Internet idea, if you like it or not, is to share information freely.
There will always be the lamers that will ask their stupid question, and there always be the people that will share their great work with the others.
Anyone (from either side) can join or leave anytime he like.
Jasjamming (The "black guy") did a great job, I relay mean it.
But his leave would not end the great work of this forum.
l hope he will change his mind and decide to continue his work with the others even that some lamers are here.

I think a senior forum would work.
Sure all the ROMs would leak out onto bittorrent etc, but surely that doesn't actually matter? It would be to stop the n00bs moaning about dead phones. if they don't have the rights, they can't post regardless of if they have the ROM or not.

jasjamming said:
hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.
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Click to collapse
At least you can sleep now?
Jas... do you want me to remove your ROM from my mirror? I noticed you removed your own download link, but I don't know where you stand on mirrors?

It's sad to see ppl who don't want to learn join and ask stupid question.
I have joined since 2005 but never post once
Yes! this is my first post!! haha
I want to thank jasjamming for his hard work... and all the ROM chef.

One of the things that has caused an increase in NooB's (in my opionion) is that knowledge of these roms (as well as links) get posted on to howard forums and those same users come rushing in to download the files without paying attention to the fact that this isn't the HTC customer support forum. I agree with what JJ ended up doing only cause I am STILL reading through that forum and have only spotted about 4-6 actual issues the rest are repeats or dumb comments (up to page 42).
Personaly I am far from a developer, but taking the time reading through threads has given me a lot of knowledge about what my device can do.
I like the ideas of having some kind of feature that NooB's can join, and even download, but at their own risk, and after a waiting period can then post etc. even if you make it just for the WM6 forums until a branded official rom is released in q3

Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.

mrvanx said:
Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.
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That in conjunction with a 30 day waiting period would work for Noobs.

I totally Agree
I totally agree with you guys. It's sad to see how things have turned out lately. I have been to this site off and on for a few years now (just reading actually), and loved everything that I read. Now in a sense I can be called a noob (I joined in 2/07), but technically I am not. I am coming from the symbian os (Nokia N93) and the minute that I got my windows mobile phone (February of this year - 8525), I joined this site. I read and read and read, never really felt the need to post, because you can find everything you need either by the wiki or just plain clicking on the search button, but I guess most people don't see that button
Anyway, I agree that something should be done to stop what has been happening in the last month, but I don't think that saying we should have a senior member forum only or you have to have this amount of post to get it, will work. Because if you look at JJ's, Kyphurs, LVSW threads, you will see that there were people who had a lot post and even a few junior and senior members who complained and questioned. There are a lot of people who come on and actually read and never post, because they search and figure things out without having to question these great chefs. I personally don't want to have to come on here and began to post everyday to get to junior and/or senior status. I never once complained since being here and believe me, since the release of these WM6 roms (Kyphur's first), I have been flashing 2-3 times per week. So much, my wife has gotten sick of it.
I think, you should continue to let people join and continue to flash, with the understanding that, they are doing everything at their own risk. What I think should be done is, people who have been a member for 3-6 months or less would have to have there post/threads approved by the mod's before it could be posted. Sought of like on myspace when you post your initial pic, they tell you that it is pending approval and that it if approved, it should be posted within 24 hours. They even have a function where you can have it set on your page, that if a person leaves you a comment, it will not post until it has been approved by you. You can either delete or post it. That's how I have my page set up. It would be a lot more work on the mod's, (I don't even know if that is capable), but it would cut back a lot of stress on all of the chefs and even the people who really sit and read/search and get the answers that they need.
What do yo think?

True, this would be much more easier to contain if M$ didn't shut down the ability to put roms on the FTP. People could earn their way in, maybe give access to certain users could be a lot of admin work entering all the compliant users, I would be willing to help with something to that degree, giving time to those that spend countless hours helping out people like me.

JuniorPhatFarm said:
As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???
Click to expand...
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Idea sounds good but the noobs do tend to post a lot....
Most of it rubbish or repeated requests over and over and over...........
Another problem is that some of us (like me) have not been on the forums long but are far from noobs because we have only just switched to a hermes from another PDA
Suggest big sign on front page:
THIS IS NOT A SUPPORT SITE

Perhaps longer than thirty days? If you are serious about this stuff then there is sooooo much to read and understand, and then read again. This would hopefully avoid all the
"I just bricked my phone! - HELP ME"
or
"I want Crossbow - where can I download it"
where people do not read first.
Postcount limits might encourage lots of one line no purpose posts, and to sort the good from the bad requires a lot of time and effort from mods.

self inflicted problem?
one of the problems is that most *interesting* posts (new releases, etc) are 10+ pages long and full of pointless posts and cr*p ("can't wait", "downloading now", etc.). reading these posts have become more and more difficult. Doing a search also leads to loads of crappy posts.​
The problem is that the higher your rating / grade / status, the more likely you are to have innondated the forum earlier with pointless posts. A senior member-only forum (or similar) will create more incentives for people to post crappy things until their postcount is high enough... don't think this is the way forward.​
As for removing the link to WMBlackEd2.0 and stop releasing public updates: although i fully respect jasjamming's stand on this, I think it goes against the spirit of this great place. there is a difference between "decommissioning" something, and not "supporting it" anymore. I feel the link to the download should be there for people to install the rom and try it, and future releases made public (if thats what he intended to do in the first place) but the thread should be a closed one: people, download it and support it yourself or don't download it at all if you don't know what you're doing.​
maybe this will deter enough neebies from the site and help make this place the great place it used to be.​
the wiki should be used as front page for the site, with all resources there. I am sure not everyone knows about the wiki, as it is somewhat hidden from the main xda-developer page.​
just my thoughts...​
by the way, I have not posted for a while as i upgraded / downgraded / sorted out issues all by myself after doing loads of reading and searching... but I must admit that only 10% of the posts on the whole site are helpful/meaningful - the rest is an attempt by people to increase their postcount.... and this really puts me off.

about recent hostilities

Sorry this is so long but I feel strongly about this.
I too have few posts as anyone can see. I joined in Sep '06 but have been an avid reader of this forum since my company bought me a Siemens SX66 several years ago.
While I have noticed a marked decline in the quality of posts on this site, I have also seen an amazing increase in the quality of products the senior people have put out.
I think this fact coupled with the rising popularity of Windows Mobile and HTC products is inviting more and more people who would be otherwise too scared to try flashing their expensive gear to feel comfortable enough to give it a go.
Personally, I consider this a hobbyist site and as such, while the senior people will only gain experience and become more adept at their hobby, the noobs will continue to be noobs with the same noob questions, just more of them.
If this site is ever to work as an open hobbyist site, then I think it behooves everyone to step back and take a breath and think about what that goal will require.
1) Seniors - as your skills improve, and you work in this hobby more and more, you will inevitably see more and more of the same questions. Have mercy on the noobs. Truly some are lazy leechers others are perhaps "just getting their feet wet." Everyone has to start somewhere and sometimes that "start" begins with what you may think is a dumb question but is considered valid to the user asking it.
2) Noobs - think about your questions before you ask them. Realize that you are getting the benefits of senior people in this hobby and treat them accordingly. They are doing more to give you free "customer service" than the companies that you gave your money to in the first place.
3) Everyone - I see this problem as having many smaller pieces that perhaps can be improved to help create a better environment.
a) The built-in vBulletin search function sucks arse. Someone posted how to search this site using Google. Perhaps removing the built-in search would get people more familiar with a better search tool and perhaps return more relevant entries.
b) Pay to play - If you are a serious hobbyist then paying a subscription fee to gain access to the hard work others have done should be worth it. You can't or won't pay then you are on your own.
c) Private or Tiered forum for more Senior folks. Entry could be by application/invite allowing a senior moderator to evaluate the applicants quality of participation first. This would also force noobs to start contributing to the group versus just leeching.
Lastly, I have seens several posts where it is obvious that English is not their first or even learned language. I have read the wiki for my device and I have had to read parts several times to understand them. I think for many to whom the language might be a barrier to participation a little extra patience should be granted.
This is an absolutely awesome forum. I have been a benefactor of the work others have done and have several devices that are much more usable, enjoyable and longer lived because of this site. It would be a shame for this forum to crumble under the weight of the hostility that has been present the last few months.
Please, let's all find a way to keep this site useful, friendly and enjoyable for all of its participants.

Some good points but I personally don't have any problems with the search as you have got the options to search the forums, narrowing down your options, and the search this thread to really go deeper.
What I have seen on other forums is - like you say in point c - a lockdown of specific groups until you've got a certain number of posts/been around for a while/been approved so that it can be established that you're familiar with the forum and don't just post crap/leech stuff. Maybe something like that could be employed.
But let's face it, the quality of releases lately has brought far more attention to this forum rather than those who would come here because they knew what they were doing.
Just my thoughts.

If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.

I agree with most of what you say.
I have been on this forum for more than 4 years now and it's been the best forum I have ever used to play around with my "toys".
Noobs are noobs and I even ask silly questions sometimes but I think that this site should remain the same.... It's a gold mine for every person like me wanting to play around and get the best out of his toy.
Long life to this forum

I've been on so many forums for so long and all of the ones that are any good have these very same issues. I recently read a post on a forum of another open source project that I absolutely love (Handbrake) and I think the post you can find here by one of their chief developers has some correlation to this current situation.
If you're too lazy to mosie over to the link...the gist of the post is that open source projects are just that. They are open sourced. That doesn't mean one has carte blanche to ask for help on this or that, to ask for this feature or that feature, to whine and complain, to moan and groan, or to trash somebody's work when it doesn't work like you want it to. It means that a usually small but dedicated group of individuals got together and tried to find a solution to a problem that they had. In the case of this post...it's about open source software...but I think you could say the same thing about ROM cooking here. There is enough information here that if you see or try something that doesn't work for you...try to fix it yourself (or as many have stated...search and see if it's already been fixed by someone). But in the end...I don't think you'll ever stamp out noob crap entirely. Think about it...just walk down the street or turn on your television or flip on your radio...how many idiots do you see or hear? Trust me...we are far outnumbered... But maybe...with a little help...we can at least edumacate em a little bit.

richy240 said:
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
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Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
The procedure how to get the info you need:
READ > SEARCH > THINK > POST
Sequence is important in that case!
Same applies to posts made entirely in language other than English > these are useless for vast majority of readers, please consider sending a PM when talking to your nationals.
'nuff said. Long live the XDA-Dev!

I think most of the gripes are about pointless posts eg, "whoohoo!", "cool", "downloading now" that just take up space and make getting to the valuable posts more difficult. Then there are the noob questions that are simple to answer but extremely annoying when repeating many many times. I am a noob to this forum and this phone but not about computers and porgramming. I have also made a donation to jasjamming and wish him the best. My proposal to end some of the madness is to seperate out the type of posts, which seem to be threefold 1. appreciation/useless banter 2. noob questions/simple questions 3. decent and high quality posts that make xda dev a great forum. So one thread about technical stuff that will contain good and useful info and another being the noob questions useless banter. Maybe split the noob questions and appreciation thread and forget about one or the other. This will make the mods life a lot easier and make reading the forum a lot more palatable and organise the threads in a meaningful way. Again sorry to see jasjamming go so soon after joining this forum. Hope he comes back at some stage.

KarhU said:
Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
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Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.

Perhaps creating/moving this and other hardcore forums to private/access controlled area would help.
HoFo is part of the trouble but so is Google and search bots which read public forums. That brings a lot of new readers/noobs.
I've been on sites that have both public and private fora, and the Google/non approved members can't get at the private side which helps a lot.
Just so long as I'm a member of the private side.

Personally i think this forum would work better if there were more forums, say inside the hermes mobile 6 one there was one for each rom. Then if users were encouraged to post new topics for different faults the stupid pointless topics could just be ignored and end up pages back or even deleted while the usefull topics would stay near the top with only relavent content inside.
Anyway thats not for me to decide and just to note i hardly ever feel the need to post cos i've always found a fix for my problems by reading. It might take a few mins longer to find an answer than to start a post but it saves you looking stupid.

I fully support the idea of a subscription to the forums. I'm a member of another subscription-based forum, and it leads to more productive posts and queries, better quality of member base, and an intelligent quorum. That site is $9.95 for a lifetime membership, less a ban of course -- and I find that more than fair.
I don't post much either, I just soak up knowledge here. I try not to ask questions unless absolutely necessary, and instead reap the benefits from the great minds at work..

I love the forum and I think we all agree on this point. I am a moderator on several other PDA related sites. I know first hand how hard it can be to try and get the new folks to use the search function and read The Bold Print but I have found with my experience that using post counts to advance members to hidden forums only invites spam and useless posts. I can also say that wading through 80 sum pages of "thank you's" and "questions that where answered in the first post but I just looked for the link to download and didn't read" posts, is long and quite aggravating. Also trying to use the search function for things like finding a fix to an MMS problem is near to imposable. What I have seen here recently that I like is when something is released like a new WM6 build, there could be 2 treads started one for real questions (Advanced) and issues and one for the new folks to ask there new folk questions (Beginners). Not restricting access to the "Advance" tread, just the ability to post. I don't mind helping the new folks a little because I was new once. I can also say that I read information on this site for 4 days before I attempted to flash a new rom to my device. ( was scared to death ) and some of the questions the new folks asked, I also wanted the answer too. Lots of times some senior member would help them with a link or advice and this helped me also. I think if anything you should have to be a member here for say 3 or 4 days before you are allowed to post. Then maybe a week or two before you could post in the "Advanced" threads. This would hopefully send more new folks eager to find the answers to there questions, into the forums using the search and reading the comment of others a little more closely.
Just my thoughts
JD

I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!

Thanks button?
I will now throw my 2 cents in as well. I too have not posted much, but have managed to upgrade the ROM on my Hermes a few times without having to seek "professional help". I think we all appreciate the effrorts of the few that provide the rewards for the many. I used to be a SuperMod on a SonyEricsson modding site (before I found the Windows Mobile joy).
I have seen a "Thanks Button" used quite effectively - I think it is in the newer releases of vBulletin. It cuts a lot of the crap. Also, I would support a "no post for 10 days" and "read only, except by invitation" threads.
If you can express gratitude simply, have to read and learn for 10 days (and you KNOW they won't wait to try the flash) and get to read what the Seniors and Mods are saying and download the fruits of their labors, but cannot interfere, I think that would raise the quality of the experience for everyone. Sorry I went so long - I love XDA and want to see it continue to dominate.
PS: It is funny to see someone with the nick "poopmongrel" lamenting the low quality of the forum participants - ;-) That isn't meant to be mean, just funny!

richy240 said:
Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
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Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.

chenga said:
Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
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I don't know... Probably not. I was really just talking out of my ass. But when someone answers like that, they obviously shouldn't expect an accurate answer. If someone said that to me after answering a question, I wouldn't give them the time of day.

Wasn't everybody a n00b at one time?
It would be a shame to 'close the forum down' to noobs. There's a first for everything. And -yes!- noobs can ask stupid questions, but you could just ignore them. I've read some good suggestions reading the threads complaining about the newbies on this forum. ("thank you button", "noob area" and "a timeslot between downloading/registering" eg.)
Without this forum I'm pretty sure my Hermes would still run on WM5 since there's no real alternative to this forum. The senior members and chefs provide information (at least I) could not find anywhere else. Like many junior members (I guess) I spend the most time reading and not posting. Reading and learning. So getting 'senior' by just posting will not improve the forum quality.
To bad some (a) chef(s) are just so fed up they don't share their work anymore, but I can understand. People should be more gratefull for their hard work. Especially if you do not have the skills to cook a rom yourself!

I think the problem is more than just asking questions, even basic ones. It is the attitude of some users who seem to expect the contributors of the ROMs to support them. As a software developer myself, I've experienced many such types who think that just because they downloaded your software for free, they are entitled to your support. I believe it is this sort of "stupidity" and arrogance that really gets the goat of those who work hard to contribute something.
In this case, the fault isn't merely one of tolerance, it is one of attitude. If a guy comes in and gets free stuff from you, and then turns back and demand you fix their machine, while bad-mouthing you - surely you can see how this will make the whole enterprise un-worthwhile for the contributor. Not only are they not getting any tangible remuneration for their work, they are now having to put up with such arrogance. Now, who in their right mind would want to continue contributing in a community that is unappreciative (though arguably there will always be those who are appreciative).
The key then is to keep the unappreciative out until they learn some respect and appreciation. When they learn that what they're getting is not a right but a privilege, out of the goodwill of the contributors. If they are not happy, they can go elsewhere and not use the product. If they're sincere, then they should make the effort to learn. Regardless of the complaints of how hard it is to use the search function (how hard can it be??). In this case the onus is NOT on the contributors but on the end-user.
I see this kind of scenario happening:-
1. Newbie hears about WM6 and thinks its so cool.
2. Pesters friend for link and ends up here.
3. Get excited at the level of activity and prospect of getting something for free.
4. Get frustrated because they don't know where to start.
5. Post basic questions about which is the best ROM etc.
6. Decides to go with the "best" ROM.
7. Bricks the machine or finds a bug or loses some features.
8. Get frustrated and angry and vents at the ROM chefs (or Olipro.
9. Tries to read site for the first time but too lazy to work through the posts (it does take time but that is expected.)
10. Pester others to help them unbrick their machine.
11. Unbricks machine and starts again with another ROM variant.
12. Cycle repeats itself.
I'm not saying that all newbies are like this. Many lurkers actually read through all the related posts. The problem we're facing has to do with those who want the benefits without having to spend the time reading and researching and learning some general knowledge about the ROM flashing process. To make things worse, these same types usually have attitudes of self-righteous indignation which makes them a pain to tolerate. This is the kind of person you want to keep out of the community. IMO.
Daniel

swtaltima said:
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
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Click to collapse
I have to agree here. What ticks me off is the fact that alot of people here come in, flash a ROM without reading or researching then DEMAND a solution...not once...not twice...but sometimes three and four times in a short time span.
I have no right to DEMAND someone to fix something that either (1) I caused; (2) I didn't read enough to see that it was a known issue and flashed anyway; (3) a known issue with an open source software on a DEVELOPER's sight with I am NOT a developer.
What I see the issue to be is ingratitude, sense of entitlement and tender emotions. If you're feelings are going to get hurt then you shouldn't post. The developers here don't owe anybody here a thing. Plain and simple.
Politically correct? No. Do I care? No.
Jim

I Love Xda-developers.com!
Spread The Peace!

Changes to rules, practices and standards while on XDA?

Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.

On my personal opinion, I´m not a Mod or Dev, I´m just a simple member
Of course XDA-DEVS has been changing and adapting
Is not the same to have a site with 30 members with more personal and friendly contact between them than to have a site with hundreds of users...
personal friendly contact of course is lost in certain way, I don´t mean that XDA is not friendly anymore, but rules must change and adapt to the big site that has become now
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
Just my personal point of view, not intend to offend anyone
Cheers,

There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.

One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.

That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...

Thresher said:
Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please See:
TheChampJT said:
There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aE3-ink said:
One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.
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Click to collapse
orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So yeah, there have been an influx of "stupid" newbs. people who take without regard for the informal structure that has existed for years.
There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infractions.

orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I meant was to not create new threads but answering the posts with the link to the wiki. I just did a few here :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481763
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481739
Mainly trying to make them go to the wiki to find their answer.
I guess it's doing half the work for them but I can imagine that some people come along & aren't used to digging around & sometimes need a wee shove to help them along.
Of course some just don't care & I imagine you long timers & mods/admin get really tired of them, so us newer members should start to help out even if it is only in a small way.

orb3000 said:
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point, well taken.

Thanks, for the input. I do appreciate it.

Actually, if you read the guidelines Peter P wrote all them years ago they still apply.
For example:
1. Check if something hasn't been asked before - a lot of the mod activity is enforcing this, removing / closing redundant questions that already have answers. The other day I closed a thread with the answer of the wiki home page, nothing more (I was feeling mean ), and 10 minutes later I saw the user download the software they asked for - they must have found the software by searching and reading the wiki .
Just my 2p's worth,
Dave

@Thresher
I guess JimmyMcgee is a bit harsh (stupid newbs), but has a good point anyways. I have been a member of this since July 2005 and this place has not changed a bit. Every single value and rule is the same as when I joined. The structure that this site has, has worked for many years, making this a haven for people that either want to learn or simply need help. It is not the site's rules and regulations that have changed, but the quality of people joining the site...
Over the past year, I have seen virtually every single one of the main and most common sense rules being broken. Point and case, do you know how many threads in Chinese, German, French, Italian (I have yet to see one in Spanish but I have seen a few posts with a lot of cursing in Spanish ) and an endless number of other languages have been started over the last year?? This is an English speaking forum and if I am not mistaken, one of the rules is "please post in English so others can understand"... one would think thats common sense. Of course, you will have the good ol' fashioned person (to avoid name calling) that will rant about how they don't speak English and that it is very unfair how they cannot ask questions (or read the comments) because of that... To that I say, "Google is a wonderful thing, you know? You can do things such as writing your stuff and then using the translate function to turn your question into something that some people might actually be able to understand." Believe me, my first language is Spanish and I would like nothing more than to make less effort into writing, but hey it's not a matter of what I like and what is more convenient... it's common sense.
Now, I read your original thread in the Q&A question where you complained that you posted something in the Raphael forums and got moved somewhere else. That thread where you placed your post clearly stated that no posts/replies were supposed to be made. So, the mods decided to move it where they saw fit to belong. That is what the mods are here for, to turn this utterly, disorganized, never ending chaos that we call a forum and make it enjoyable for them as well as for other members. And they do a great job at that!
Long story short, (again quoting JimmyMcgee)
"There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infraction."
Thanks for understanding.

The longer one is on the site, the more one answers the same questions over and over the less nice you are going to be about it.
Loads and loads of people have google search XDA link in there sig, and 90% of questions have been answered at least once before, sometimes even on the same page.
People are lazy, and want it handed to them on a plate, its sad.

The world is constantly developing and changing, the internet reaches more places in the world than ever. With satallites, virtually the whole earth is covered by some sort of cell service ( well except my downstairs office where I can never get a signal ). With the advent of global email and texts, more people than ever have cell phones, and the number of PDA's grow every month.
What used to be a small forum of enthusiats trying out and sharing hacks, to try to make their phones better, has turned into one of , if not the best source of information on the net for Windows Mobile phones. I have not been to a windows mobile , HTC or carrier forum on the net that doesn't reference XDA to people with " unanswerable " questions.
With this designation of " the authority " comes the influx of human nature. "The I want it and I want it now's." The people who think that this is HTC's tech support. The people who don't really care about their phones and don't want to, but just have one question and cannot see why you cannot just anwer it and let them get on with their lives, etc...etc.... Go to any other enthusiast site and see how ignorant ( ie: unknowledgeable ) people get treated, not much differently. " I know that this is a high performance engine forum, where people trade ideas on how to increase the horse power of high performance cars, but can someone tell me where the dipstick is on my 1999 mini van ?"
Too bad there wasn't a way to route every noob or web redirect through a home page that includes the " what XDA is " and the posting rules page, before they can navigate to the site itself. Maybe for at least their first 10 posts or more. The fustrations with redundant questions, ungrateful noobs, people that think this is tech support are endemic of any forum. But I really think that ti is not a problem here, as much as I have seen on other sites. And if someone wants to remedy it, I think the remedy has to work friom the noobs up and not from the seniors down.

Google is a wonderful thing but as Google admits to: human nature, vocabulary, language and grammar make search engine results wildly different for each user. Google also has issues with short words and abbreviations which are used a lot throughout XDA.
The WIKI is great.
I guess other forums I use have a feature to show you similar questions based on the language you used before you finish your post. I wonder if this forum has that ability. I think it comes as part of the vBulletin package but it takes a toll on the server due to DB hits.

Current state of XDA

tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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Click to collapse
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>

I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??

And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.

Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium

The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!

I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India

Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.

Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion

As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.

I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium

Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
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I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
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I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.

Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium

Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.

reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
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Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.

Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
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This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound

Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
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I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

... is there actually something wrong, or?

Forewarning: This is going to be a rant but please take it lightly. I mean no harm and this isn't in direct relation to any specific entity but as a community together. This isn't going to be a perfect how to and will lack a lot of structure and information. I just really want to get a point across, that's all. Admin's, please don't ban me for this either. If there's something wrong, message me and I'll alter it or remove it. I'm genuinely fed up and as a moderator I'm sure that you'll understand at least a few points in this post.
I've been coming to this website for the last few years on and off, between phones and to check up on reviews and content before I make a purchase. XDA-Developers is a fantastic site, however it has a long way to go as a community. I appreciate the developers and the work that everyone within this community put into enhancing our products. From mods that give us basic features, because let's face it, huge companies aren't that great - to the point of adding features that no one thought was previously possible. We have fantastic developers and community members here everyday putting in their hard work and effort to better us and to improve.
However, I feel like there's something lacking. Lacking by a large amount. I feel like some people are mentally challenged. Half assed and lazy. Rude. Arrogant. Fools. The list goes on for words that are degrading to ones self and to tell you the truth, I'm absolutely sick of it. This is a forum dedicated to information, mods, releases and ideas. Yet we have, almost the entire time, people complaining, winging, throwing racist, sexist and abusive slurs around. Thank God for the moderators! BUT!! It has to stop.
I'm sick of coming to this site, trying to find a new ROM or an awesome mod and having to sift through HUNDREDS of repeated questions, over and over and over. Tens of pages, often hundreds for big general threads. I don't care if you hate people of a different skin colour, or if you think that such and such developer's kids are a bunch of brats. Those types of discussions have NO PLACE for a website like this.
When I go ROM shopping, I'll go to the index thread because I don't frequent this site and sifting through the correct sub-forums and all the useless threads, all the threads that have the same topic as the one before it and so forth, well, it's just a lot easier for me. From that index thread, I'll have a few dozen tabs open. Though I'll immediately close any tabs that DON'T HAVE information about the ROM or Mod. The features it has. Change logs and or screenshots. I'm generally left with anywhere between two to five threads. That's a lot of work being overlooked because YOU as a developer don't incorporate that into your main post or anywhere that's readily available.
Then you'll have hundreds of users asking the same question and before you know it, that six hundred page thread on your ROM could really be one or two pages at most. Please, for the love of God, add information. If you're going to make the effort to developer or alter software, at least give us information about what you have done. Sure it's a lack on my part, but you're not going to go door knocking to sell your vacuum if your vacuum is in a box with a questionmark and all you say is that it's good for people who live at home, are you? What's in the box? What features does it have? How have you altered it? What's the best way to obtain it? Simple things that I see EVERYDAY that people don't seem to give a rats ass about.
There was a developer here recently that created the ONLY ROM that I was happy using on my LG G3. He ended up stopping his work because people would post abuse and not follow some simple rules that he laid out. YOU as a community, drove a fantastic developer away, and you only have YOURSELF to blame. But what can you do about that? CHANGE!!
You make a choice, everyday to do the things you do. Don't ever blame someone else and please be kind to one another. Encourage each other to produce better work! Encourage each other to outperform, to go past your barriers. I'm sick of going to forum sites and reporting people for calling others idiots because they mistakenly overlooked the download section, or their Adblocker stopped the download server page for loading which is something that happens all the time and not a lot of people know that's the cause. We all make mistakes, everyday, I'm sure you ( the ones calling others idiots ) do things just as idiotic but in a different fashion.
So, what are some simple things we can do to enhance the quality of XDA Developers?
1.) If you're a developer -
- Lay out your threads nicely. Formatting is essential. If I wrote this entire thread without paragraphing, I assure you no one would read it.
- Take the opportunity to learn photoshop for nice visuals, or at least take screenshots!! I hate going through a 45 minute install only to find out that it looks terrible.
- INFORMATION!!! CHANGE LOGS!!! LINKS!!!
- Make it clear about what you are doing and what your goals are, what do you hope to achieve?
- Give us a bit of background - it's always a nice added bonus to read. Just a short paragraph. Sometimes it helps, it's like hearing an annoying sound, but once you know what that sound is, it doesn't disturb you.
2.) If you're a user -
- Don't be racist, sexist, abusive.
- Be KIND TO ONE ANOTHER.
- Research!! Take a second to read the first few posts of a thread, not everything is in the first post as some people like to lay things out over two or three with a reserve.
- Don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't be afraid to answer them! For every question you ask, make the effort to answer two others.
- If someone calls you an idiot, report them, don't fuel the fire.
3.) For everyone -
- Don't post something that doesn't; add to the topic, benefit anyone, isn't genuine.
- Be kind.
- Follow the rules.
- Open your eyes.
- INFORMATION!!! This is a site full of it. Acquire its potential.
- Think about what you post.
- Proof read what you've put up!!!!!! I can't comment on how many times I've sat there for half an hour trying to figure out what the developer is trying to say.
With all that said, I hope you all have a fantastic day / night and stay safe, stay hydrated. Sleep well and eat well. Your brain works better if you do, or at least eat a Snickers chocolate bar.

Tldr version, devs post more info/screenshots on your roms, members, respect devs and other forum members.

Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.

RYARNI said:
Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.
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you just proved his point with your comment

Well, unless XDA agrees to put people who don't read into readonly for a week or so, things won't change. Only mass bans and readonlies can make people who don't read and don't listen understand...

@Curleyyy Even though I completely agree with the statements you made and airing off your views is good for sanity, even if you post this epic rant in every thread in the sea of device specific threads on XDA you will never ever change peoples attitudes to forum posting. Frankly you can't call it a true community if everyone has an alias and avatar, we offer information and maybe 90% have a kosher reason or genuine interest with the satisfaction of anonymity, unfortunately with anonymity also comes the troll who comes to spoil the party. This is not Facebook or google+ my friend, it is only an exchange of specific information (with a certain amount of order), an open-source library of sorts, but at least it works and that is a testament to the mods which do a great job filtering out most of the dross!

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