Develop Bugs

A Plead to the members of XDA..

As a member of XDA i am proud that there is a place where people, ideas and developers can come together to work out problems and create new, better, faster software.
I love the ideas and the creations here, but i am somewhat tired of the negativity and "flaming" going on in some of the forums. Specifically Samsung Galaxy forums, with each passing day/week there is an exponentially increasing amount of NEW THREADS, pretty much dedicated to venting anger at the phone's manufacturer. While some claims do have merit (crappy GPS), other complaints are ill-researched, (samsung to blame for not releasing froyo, how did rogers release it to me?).
There was even a "Supposed" samsung rep. SamsungJohn, who reached out to the captivate community on the behalf of Samsung. (once again supposedly) If he was in fact from samsung he received the WORST welcome from the community, he was badgered and hammered with anger before given a chance to explain what his goal/role here was. In a recent post it was referred to him "stepping on the XDA hornets nest". Honestly it looked more like a forum full of angry 10 year olds, although to be COMPLETELY FAIR, 99% of the members "flaming" (to SamsungJohn or in other posts) ARE NOT DEVELOPERS OR PROGRAMMERS just bored people that feel XDA is a good place to vent anger. IT IS NOT.
If you have actual hardware problems with your phone, flood the manufacturers forum NOT OURS! If they had as many complaint posts as we do on a public forum they wouldn't be able to deny any issues exist, you could link to them, they would be right there, ON THEIR SITE.
I love my phone, for any flaws it has, any other phone will have another, sometimes we can fix it here, sometimes we cant. It is understandable in this day and age that many times products are rushed out the door and moved on to the next. Its the world we live in today. Accept it or check out..
Please remember XDA is a place to come together for ideas and working out problems NOT NEEDLESSLY COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM!!!

Speak my man!Perhaps that is the most right opinion I've seen on the forums!
PS:Love your PC setup dude!If it had a 69xxHD ATi it would be my dream machine!

Peace, love, harmony. Everyone, repeat. Hehe.
There will always be flaming. We have pretty diligent moderators that find the offending members and take proper action. Everyone can help out here just by being nice to one another. This is a community. A community benefits when its citizens are helpful, friendly, and contributive.

Well said! The forum needs more people to be constructive in their postings rather than petulant and needy.

This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.

mputtr said:
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
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if i was a moderator or web dev of this site the message would pop up, and you would have to agree before veiwing the forums!

I know its been getting bad. But they have stepped up and got more moderators. So it will get better. Plus all the new devices that keep getting added. So much for everyone to keeo up with. Thats why as you know the report post is there. Helps alot.

@OP, I couldn't agree more with you, with the recent influx of new users into XDA via their new purchases and nearly everyone owning a smartphone we will have to adapt to them and their misconceptions of what XDA is. Although they may misunderstand what we are about we are always trying to show them what our roots were and still are today. We try to keep it under control to the best of out abilities, but with a ratio of moderators to members being 40:1,000,000 it can be an uphill battle at times. Thanks for sharing your opinion and we hope to improve down the road.

yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever

Trusselo said:
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
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yep, we have this in place. They are called Forum Specific Moderators, and have a title like
"HTC XYZ Forum Moderator"
They are responsible for a small number of forums, to try and spot this stuff

Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)

Trusselo said:
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
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Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.

pulser_g2 said:
Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
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well that explains a lot
Hopefully we get a new mod soon!
Herp Derp Captivate XDA

Even with the influx of immature morons, this place is still two thousand times more coherent and mature than any iPhone modification related forum.
I swear, all I see over on those boards are a bunch of people crying and cursing and yelling and making threats because jailbreaks and unlocks are slow to release.

I am loving your new member posts, very informative and a great way to get informed about this site!

Agreement
I completely agree with you man.
I think we need two things,
First of all, people who respect the earth and its benefits.
And secondly, some respectful people who watch and guide people who don't know the value of being beneficial and so respectful, one by one.
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------
I really consist with this oppinion that an improved society just can born and keep on by everyone's usefull endeavour. In the other word a wise intellectual man/woman cann't grow up and even say a little bit of his/her knowledge in a tidy palce.
So, be in the way and enjoy your home.
Hopping success and enhancement.

I could not agree with you more.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using XDA

This is the truest thing in the world. Been happening a lot on my devices forum, the flaming amongst members and devs.
It just shouldn't happen

I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attract any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'

trevd said:
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attrach any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
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Hi, I am new to XDA, and I just wanted to express my admiration of your ideas, as well as to the OP, truly a superb insight.
Idea: There should be a demarcation of topics and subforums known as the Noob forums. Unless and until you contribute something OTHER than a post (eg, a ROM, theme, or hack perhaps), you remain in the Noob forums.
Good idea?
Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2

So much disrespect going on!!!

I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks

THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.

Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this

ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.

Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome

MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.

ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.

@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.

I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"

@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site

tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.

orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!

LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better

ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.

mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues

orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out

Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...

New report post system is on the way pretty soon

Something Needs to Change

All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe

"In a perfect world..."

github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App

I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.

Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.

C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.

github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.

It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.

It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do

TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said

Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.

RANT!!!! about unhelpful know-it-alls

Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.

Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.

There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.

im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i

Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.

zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.

Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.

If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.

cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.

arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......

conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol

I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.

Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.

cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.

Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.

cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll

This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.

.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!

Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.

XDA needs a Facelift to stay future-proof. Any suggestions and ideas are very welcome

Hi All Dear XDA Members,
As most of you will know, I'm XDA addict and active member who started a lot of threads in order to try to keep XDA as organized as possible (see: the Q&A/T thread template: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46281795&postcount=4, which also contains the links to the Index project and the Ask Away help thread). Yet, I noticed that XDA has become so huge that it's grown out of it's "jacket". It became a forum which looks like a "forest which can not been seen because of all the trees". Newcomers can hardly find their way in this forest, ( They still keep registering to our forum but hardly post anything, let alone that they will start a thread) even more experienced users have difficulties or stop develeloping new ROM's and/or Threads. The layout of XDA is, speaking in modern terms, old fashioned at this very moment and if there will be no facelift within a short while, XDA is IMHO doomed to follow certain social media, who are loosing a lot of followers at this very moment. If you are familiar with social media, you know exactly which media I'm referring too. So, that's the reason I started this thread: How can we resuscitate XDA, cause that's what's needed, to be and stay future proof? IMHO, XDA is one of the, if not the, most important Smartphone forum and it should stay that forever, but changes are needed to achieve this. One of the changes could be a chat function, but most of all there needs to become a new a structure of how XDA is build up untill now. I'm convinced that the XDA staff is aware of this and working very hard to keep XDA future-proof. As it is now, it will be very hard to compete with the modern social media applications. I'm a diehard fan of XDA and that's why I started this thread. Making XDA future proof will be a hell of a job and therefore the staff of XDA can use IMO input from members, like you and me. Just plain and simple: I ask you all to come with information, suggestions and ideas how to make XDA future proof. Help the staff of XDA in this huge project of keeping it alive , kicking and well. Vbulletin is not the most ideal platform anymore, we need something else (see Reddit, etc).
kindest reards, kuzibri
BTW1: I do not suggest that XDA should use the Reddit platform or something the like
BTW2: A more social media approach would and could benefit XDA in the near future.
BTW3: I'm a great fan of the XDA Labs app for Android. Maybe an idea as a starting point?

Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?

This forum has grown MASSIVELY since it was first started back in 2002. I think we now have over 6.6 million members. The vbulletin forum platform was never really intended to handle such a large amount of content or userbase.
We've been on the vbulletin forum platform for a long time now. We've made a large amount of custom modifications, plugins, and tweaks, in order to add a lot of what you see in the forums today. A lot of it is the things you don't see behind the scenes. The massive amounts of custom coding that has been done, that cannot be easily transferred to other systems.
Of course we are aware that the forums are at breaking point in terms of capacity of both content and users. And of course other platform configurations are becoming more popular, with sites such as Reddit. But making a switch to another platform would be a massive massive undertaking. It's not like we can just copy and paste the database.
We are aware that this type of platform is aging, and needs to be kept a little more up to date. And I know the owners are well aware of all of this. It's not that they don't care. They do, more than anything. XDA is their baby, they are heavily invested in it, and they want it to keep growing and to remain the world's premier Smartphone development forums.
I don't know much personally, but I do know there are long term plans to look at updating or switching platforms, to better accommodate the sheer amount of users, and the large amount of valuable content. it will come, but due to the sheer scale of the task, it's going to be a very long term project for the owners I'd say.

MishaalRahman said:
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
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I have some ideas which are not ready yet to be posted/published, that's why I started this thread, hoping to get some usefull information and ideas.
BTW, it's not only the layout that needs an update, but the entire structure of XDA in order to stay future proof.
kindest regards, kuzibri

We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).

svetius said:
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
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yes a chat product is needed
The messaging part is very complicted for me till now

Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)

Webern said:
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
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We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:

Darth said:
We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
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Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.

@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs

sd_shadow said:
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
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Hi my dearest friend,
I realy think that you are perfectly fit to be a moderator, but it's of course up to you. I just suggested a new way of appointing Mod's and recommended you and Robbie'for the job. I really think that good and active RC's can become a Mod without going to the whole XDA process that's needed to become one. They are very short of Mod's, so make the process easier for active RC's.
BTW, I have all the time in the world since I retired a few months ago!!
kindest regards, kuzibri

Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on

kuzibri said:
Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
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Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth

Darth said:
Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
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Hi,
thanks for the lenghty explanation, all clear. Was just a suggestion to solve the shortage of Mod's in an easy and fast way.
kindest regards, kuzibri

Robbie P said:
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
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Yes my very dear friend, I'm still around. Due to the shortage of Mod's @Darth mentioned, I proposed to make the most active and valuable RC's a Mod without going to the entire XDA process that's needed for that. But as you can read by the answer of @Darth this is no possibility at all. IMHO, they missed the "train" in that by staying to their rules (which of course I can understand fully), cause, also IMHO, very good RC's (they are not appointed as Recognized Contributors for nothing and this title is closely related to and in line with the work of Mod's, e.g. helping people to find the right way or reacting on wrong posts by reporting them, only Mod's have much more power) are also capable of becoming good Mod's with a newly developed guidance/manual from the Mod's committee what are the demands for an RC to become a Mod in this new way. Maybe this idea is too revolutenary at this very moment, but the saying is: "when you do not shoot, you can also not miss". Of course, when this suggestion would be accepted, the Mod's committee should keep a close eye on these RC's and look if they are fit to be a Mod or not, if not, they will be an RC again. Seems logical to me,
kindest regards, kuzibri

Suggestions
Hi all,
any other suggestions to make XDA future proof?? Cause at this very moment XDA is, certainly for new members, a labyrinth. In general, even despite the introduction of XDA Assist, they cannot find their way to what they are looking for, so XDA needs to become more accessible and easier to navigate. In fact the entire site should be redesigned, but due to the massiveness of this site, this is an unrealistic task, unfortunately.
kindest regards, kuzibri

I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.

zelendel said:
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
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Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri

kuzibri said:
Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
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Really? How many devs do you see having conversations that mean anything with users? One of the biggest complaints from devs are the users. Mostly due to the fact that they won't do anything for themselves. Why do you think most teams use things like slack, or telegram (the devs don't really even talk much there in the public rooms, they have private ones set up in the side to talk shop) when I say dev I mean the real devs. Not script kiddies and compile jockies.
That is what xda stood for. It is no longer that way.
Nothing is future proof. Never has been never will be. It will end just like the days of freely modding your device. It all ends.

Hi my very dear friends,
no more new ideas or suggestions how to keep XDA future proof? It's my personal idea that the interest in posting on XDA is rapidly diminishing. If true, this would be a very disappointing way to handle XDA. It meant and still means IMHO a lot for members and newbies to be informed about the latest innovations regarding smartphones and giving them details about it. Also for helping people to get out of trouble with their device or solve other problems, XDA is the place to be. Whenever there are no reactions to this post within two weeks, I will ask a friendly Mod to close this thread. The reason for this is the presumable lack of interest in this subject and thereby there exists no need anymore to continue it nor to keep monitoring it.
kindest regards, kuzibri