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Good evening folks,
I am considering buying the HTC Touch Pro2 when it is released in the USA on Tmobile. I would like to understand what hacking (security testing) tools are available on the Windows Mobile Platform. I am a security professional and have the desire to perform penetration testing from the HTC Touch Pro2.
It seems the MetaSploit framework is not available. I like to work with the command prompt, is the command prompt accessible on the HTC Touch Pro2? I've read some info about being able to mount ISOs or run emulators. Is there WiFi hacking software such as Kismet available?
Does anyone know what hacking tools are available for this platform?
Thank you!
Anyone have any ideas?
It doesn't run real windows, you can't get a command prompt. You'd be better off with a real machine.
There's a couple companies out there that sell WM devices for pentesting, but they are all provided with the hardware since they are focused on wifi and I don't believe the standard WM stuff lets you put it into promiscuous mode.
You'd probably be better off with an android device so you can just compile whatever you want.
MSFT products have never been suitable for comp-sec professionals.
You're better off connecting to a *nix box using either PocketPuTTY or using a webbrowser to connect to a remote server running metasploit.
Check out VxUtil, it gives you DNS, reverse DNS, port scan, ping, finger & so on. Pocket Putty is a good free SSH client, also does port forwarding.
OpenVPN works as well if that takes your fancy. Lots of security tools are available, they are just a bit obscure. I don't think nmap is around though.
thanks for the reply
Our company actually just released a new product (called Security Tools) that lets you ping, traceroute, do a WHOIS lookup, and even do port testing on your Windows Mobile phones. The port testing can even send clear text commands to a port such as 'GET / HTTP/1.0' to verify that it is a HTTP service listening on that port. The traceroute is also able to visually show the trace (if it's public IP address) on a map so you can kind of get a visual representation of where your traffic is going. Please feel free to try our one week free trial which lets you use the application for a week without limitations, so you can make sure everything works as you want before you buy.
You can visit the original post here at xda over at this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=550473
or you can visit the website for the product at:
http://www.securenetworksystems.com/SecurityTools/
Punkster812:
I downloaded "security tool" , installed, got a license - and it was already expired...
Also, your company name is "secure network systems" and your web-pages are hosed in Microsoft IIS, and based on aspx .....seriously, if you wish to appear as a security company, you cannot use that crap.
the program with won't work because you serve old license, but one thing is clear; the icon is of very low resolution, and looks bad on WM6.5 or TouchFlo menu.
And: the long Device-ID is there only to annoy your customers, no pir8 would ever be bothered by it, so you may as well stick to 6 characters alphanumeric code +-+++...
AlCapone said:
Punkster812:
I downloaded "security tool" , installed, got a license - and it was already expired...
Also, your company name is "secure network systems" and your web-pages are hosed in Microsoft IIS, and based on aspx .....seriously, if you wish to appear as a security company, you cannot use that crap.
the program with won't work because you serve old license, but one thing is clear; the icon is of very low resolution, and looks bad on WM6.5 or TouchFlo menu.
And: the long Device-ID is there only to annoy your customers, no pir8 would ever be bothered by it, so you may as well stick to 6 characters alphanumeric code +-+++...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry that you had troubles with the trial download, if you PM me with your Device ID I can get you one. We are aware of the low resolution, but rather than focusing on a pretty icon, we worked hard on a functional program. The long Device ID is not to annoy customers, it is actual a very secure method that we use and if you are able to break it, I would be very impressed; I know it's long but it's to protect our intellectual property and no other licensing method existed that prevent piracy like this does. We know ever method is breakable, but this accomplished our goal of restricting to the pirates that are going to steal software no matter what.
As far as the server... you are using a Microsoft product as well for you phone. We very rarely use Asp.net through our site, in fact it's only for license generation and to set up an order, but doesn't actually handle purchases. So the site is secure and I am confused on why you think our site is so insecure. I love Linux and Apache as much as the next network administrator. 4 out of 5 of my personal pc's run Linux with one set up with Apache for my personal site, but for our business needs, we went with IIS.
Again I am sorry that it didn't work for you, I will double check to see if it's still properly generating license, and remember, the trial starts from when you download the license, not run the application with the license.
regarding IIS: http://www.internetnews.com/securit...Microsoft+Rushes+to+Patch+FTP+Hole+in+IIS.htm
This finally got some attention, it was in fact being exploited for years, over several versions.
Hosting software on vulnerable servers gives an opportunity for hackers to easily repack your CAB with spyware/dialer, and you can guess the rest. - such CABs must be inspected for each download.
Regrading long serial number, it only makes a brute force attack harder, at best, which is usually not the method used. You can as well trunk it to a 6-7 char/alphanumeric number, and it will work the same, but annoy people less.
Remember you are at a forum where people often reflash, and entering long serials each time (if cannot be exported from registry) - is boring, and a motivation to workaround.
I can't remember what it's called, but there is a CAIN port for Windows Mobile.
Fmstrat said:
I can't remember what it's called, but there is a CAIN port for Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are right; - it's simply "Cain for PPC:"
http://www.oxid.it/downloads/Cain_setup_PPC.ARM.exe
and yes, it's far away from the "real" Cain.
AlCapone said:
regarding IIS: http://www.internetnews.com/securit...Microsoft+Rushes+to+Patch+FTP+Hole+in+IIS.htm
This finally got some attention, it was in fact being exploited for years, over several versions.
Hosting software on vulnerable servers gives an opportunity for hackers to easily repack your CAB with spyware/dialer, and you can guess the rest. - such CABs must be inspected for each download.
Regrading long serial number, it only makes a brute force attack harder, at best, which is usually not the method used. You can as well trunk it to a 6-7 char/alphanumeric number, and it will work the same, but annoy people less.
Remember you are at a forum where people often reflash, and entering long serials each time (if cannot be exported from registry) - is boring, and a motivation to workaround.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, I looked into and we are not vulnerable against the attack and never have been due to the attacks requirements (http://blogs.technet.com/srd/archive/2009/09/01/new-vulnerability-in-iis5-and-iis6.aspx). As far as brute forcing, without going into to much details, would be extremely difficult to do as it uses standards proven encryption algorithms. The extremely long serial that you are talking about is a unique ID for your phone. We know it's long and are always looking for ways to improve the licensing we use. The license is a file and not something that you key in, you copy to the installation directory; so you can keep a copy in your email, on your computer, flash drive, where ever for back up purposes in case you need to reload the app.
As far as reflashing, that is a very valid point. I am not 100% sure, but I believe reflashing should not hurt the license, which would hopefully mean you wouldn't have to enter your device id again. But if any one could confirm this, that would be appreciated. We know a lot of the people here are very advanced and know more about their phones then most the people at service providers or even the phone manufactures themselves sometimes, which is why we enjoy releasing our products here for testing before we release them to the public. In the little time that Security Tools has been up we have received some constructive feedback on what could be improved.
Punkster812 said:
As far as brute forcing, without going into to much details, would be extremely difficult to do as it uses standards proven encryption algorithms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, that's why I said long numbers would be good for only that, once the calculation/verification routine is extracted for a keygen, it's no more job whatever the result is 6 or 50 digits long.
- Therefore, you might save your customers from all the boring entry, because no keygen /(or crack) will be more difficult by having more digits.
Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.
Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.
Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)
RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.
Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.
The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)
Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.
Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People
burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.
The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.
^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.
Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.
So, with WP7, we lose all support for the .cab and associated API as it exists now. Replacing it is the .xab format.
What's a .xap?
A .xap is a simple, every day .zip file, renamed to .xap. Inside, it contains the app and all relevant dependencies. There are a number of possible .xml files that could be included inside the .xap to determine things like required security access level, to tell the system which .dll contains the main() for the application, etc.
I believe the .zip also provides a container for the virtual filesystem available to the app (not sure on that, it may be stored in a separate container, have to analyze more)
At least initially, .xaps will only be available for deployment through the Marketplace.
Regarding preloaded applications by OEM/MO: Requirements are much more strict in this regard now due to frequent end-user complaints about "slow, laggy, etc" Stock ROMs. I know every one of you reading this knows what I mean Preloaded App Requirements (which will be distributed as .xap) as follows:
Maximum of 6 preloaded applications on the device, not to exceed 60MB
All preloaded apps must pass Marketplace submission process (some extended APIs are available to OEM/MO so the process is slightly relaxed in that regard)
The application(s) and all future updates must be free of charge.
The apps must launch without dependency on network availability.
The apps must persist through a "hard reset".
The apps must be updatable and revocable (!!!!) through the Marketplace.
The apps must notify the user at first launch of any capabilities to be utilized and get user consent (to access compass, accelerometer, network, etc.)
I've attached a .xap to this post for your examination. It's renamed to .zip for the attachment system to allow it.
Hehe.. this reminds of the "widgets" for Vista and 7 or the "apk"s for Android. Same stuff it sounds like Thanks for the info master Da_G
Does this mean .cab.pkgs are being changed too?
The .cab.pkg format remains intact for imageupdate (actually I haven't examined it in depth just yet, but all indications are that they have not changed .cab.pkg format)
Bump for visibility
Interesting...Wonder if there will be a process to convert some cabs to xabs.
Highly unlikely. xab's are silverlight applications meaning you have to use xaml , c# code and libabries all in one small zipped file. Cab's are Cabinent files that has an inf file that specifes what libabries and files are going to be enclosed in the file. To put it simply a xab is a standalone application that does not require extraction or installation to run and a cab is an application which requires an extraction and for its contents to be placed in specific areas in order for the dependents to find and use them.
Also to clarify. Local storage for xab's are not defined or stored in the xab file. they are defined by the silverlight runtimes which is handled by the os. As of now since there is little information as to how the windows phone internal structure is (apart from us knowing that windows phone will utilised microsoft unified storage.). on windows 7 and windws vista after u install the silverliht runtimes all xab's that request local storage is stored in <SYSTEMDRIVE>\Users\<user>\AppData\LocalLow\Microsoft\Silverlight\is .. Just note silverlight local storage works just like flash local storage. the only exception so far for windows phone is that u will not be able to access a lot of local directories just predefined stuff like music, pictures and documents.
Just before people get into bad habits; they are xap, not xab files. No relationship to cabs whatsoever save as a container format.
Da_G said:
Regarding preloaded applications by OEM/MO: Requirements are much more strict in this regard now due to frequent end-user complaints about "slow, laggy, etc" Stock ROMs. I know every one of you reading this knows what I mean Preloaded App Requirements (which will be distributed as .xap) as follows:
[*]Maximum of 6 preloaded applications on the device, not to exceed 60MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just brain damaged. Pre-loaded apps add clutter, but they also cut down on cost. Choose your poison. Pre-loading has little to do with with speed penalties, when done properly. Frankly, if roms have the same ancient architecture under WM7, then Microsoft really needs some technical leadership replaced.
[*]All preloaded apps must pass Marketplace submission process (some extended APIs are available to OEM/MO so the process is slightly relaxed in that regard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is where some quality review comes in. It all depends on how good the standards are, and I dare say they will seem lower and lower as time passes. Hell, they're already admitting that OEMs will have relaxed standards.
[*]The application(s) and all future updates must be free of charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just silly. You'll get a bunch of lite software versions with next to zero shelf life instead of upgradable versions with marginal shelf life.
[*]The apps must launch without dependency on network availability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what does this even mean? Does that mean no internet based app can be installed? All it really means is you have to quit gracefully if the network isn't available.
[*]The apps must persist through a "hard reset".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good thing, but primarily a reflection of back when flash memory was in short supply. Haven't run into it in forever.
[*]The apps must be updatable and revocable (!!!!) through the Marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, updateable is good...but revocable? Maybe removable would be more consumer friendly. Makes me think of the PS3.
[*]The apps must notify the user at first launch of any capabilities to be utilized and get user consent (to access compass, accelerometer, network, etc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I take from all of this is that
a) they want to drive more traffic through the marketplace.
b) they want to drive more traffic through Windows Certification
Good for the average consumer, great for Microsoft. Personally, the only point that has any value to me at all is a central marketplace. The rest of the bullets are ways for Microsoft to drive seperation between their brand name and many software vendor's crappy products.
ahhhha , sound interesting .
gguruusa said:
That is just brain damaged. Pre-loaded apps add clutter, but they also cut down on cost. Choose your poison. Pre-loading has little to do with with speed penalties, when done properly. Frankly, if roms have the same ancient architecture under WM7, then Microsoft really needs some technical leadership replaced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know, I wish MS enforced that same restriction on the Desktops OSes too. Nothing worse than getting a Dell or Sony PC full of preloaded gunk.
gguruusa said:
That's just silly. You'll get a bunch of lite software versions with next to zero shelf life instead of upgradable versions with marginal shelf life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a big leap to come to that conclusion seeing as most software that ships with phone doesn't have additional charges. The restriction as I read it really means you just won't get a tonne of unwanted trial-ware on you shiny new phone.
Eoinoc said:
I don't know, I wish MS enforced that same restriction on the Desktops OSes too. Nothing worse than getting a Dell or Sony PC full of preloaded gunk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe, but that same preloaded gunk cut the price of your dell and sony. While I don't like preloaded gunk, I don't like expense either. What I do like is being able to make the decision myself of how much gunk vs expense I am willing to tolerate.
It's a big leap to come to that conclusion seeing as most software that ships with phone doesn't have additional charges. The restriction as I read it really means you just won't get a tonne of unwanted trial-ware on you shiny new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree it is target at no trial-ware. Any idea how people in the business world get around that? Lite versions of software (aka cripple-ware). Pay per use software. I'm sure there are other strategies. Frankly, if they enforce the ability to remove, I'm not that particular on how much gets pre-loaded. The fact of the matter is that the problem isn't how much crap comes with your phone; it is that you don't get to pick whether it is installed.
great find Da_G, so its XAB no more cabs
the0ne said:
great find Da_G, so its XAB no more cabs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XaB no.
XaP
tighoor said:
XaB no.
XaP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oops ..
How bad this is for the guys that dev here?
or... how good?
guessing .xap is short for XNA Application Package ?
vladimir2989 said:
guessing .xap is short for XNA Application Package ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
close, but no. In fact, it's actually a silverlight application package - it's been used for web stuff since silverlight released.
how to convert XAP to OEM/EXT package ?
I'm not sure what you mean by "OEM/EXT" package, but it's probably not possible. If you want to include an app with the phone, that *is* possible but the only way I know of is to include the XAPs in the ROM and then install them on first bootup. Probably not the best approach.
I'm expecting delivery of the Desire soon, having had a range of WM5, WM6 and WM6.1 handsets so far. Now one of the big problems I experienced with WM was the inability of the OS to protect itself from deep-level rogue code -one app from the Windows Marketplace screwed the last phone considerably, leading to a series of crashes, black screens with ominous warnings about not powering off correctly and so on. Thankfully I had Sprite Backup to haul back a working fileset. On the whole it felt as wobbly as a Win98 install with the wrong version of several core files.
How does the Android OS protect itself from rogue stuff? (especially the newest 2.1 release in the Desire, if it's any different from earlier versions). Does it sandbox the apps and do some heavy brokering of any multitasking? There are thousands of apps to try and I'd rather not knacker things up if one turns out to be a bit flaky...
I've used Linux for years (have mostly had Kubuntu for the past 2yrs, though used to run Suse, Slackware and ZipSlack) and have busted a Linux install just by adding the nVidia kernel drivers - I think that was within a minute of first boot in that case. I know that root access is needed for these sorts of mods - what's the score there on Android handsets?
BTW - couldn't find anything about this on the Search, and am dropping it here because I'm getting the Desire - apologies to Mods if it belongs somewhere else!
- in the market you will see bad ratings and comments if an app is really malicious (obviously the developers can't edit/delete comments from the market)
- apps don't have root access so they can't alter data on the system partition.
- apps need to have permission declared in order to have access to some functions, for example if an app is sending text messages, or modifying contact data you will see this when you install the app
Thanks. I always treat the user ratings with a pinch of salt - the one that messed my Raphael up was a 4*-rated app! I think the thing there was that WM doesn't protect the OS in any special way, and I'm glad that Android is using partitions. Sounds just like a standard Linux distro in that respect, most of which will create 3 partitions unless told otherwise.
Yeah I guess if the app has no root access, then no serious harm can be done to the phone.
Also, try to create a habbit of checking what permissions the app has before installing it. That shows just before installing, or press Menu and then Security. For example, a Game will not need access to contacts, or make calls... etc.
Before I install something I heard nothing about, I always scroll users comments and look for low ratings and see what they have to say about it. But remember that old comments (good or bad) sometimes don't count as apps get updated.
The Market should show when the application was last updated by the developer. I think Apple store already shows that.
Cheers! I'll check it out just as soon as the new phone gets here! Normally I'm dead paranoid about stuff, and don't let anything out to play unless I'm sure - maybe I'm letting one bad installation colour things a bit too much...
From @windowsphone on twitter: http://newwp.it/i6NfzI
On the last page there's this question, "What, if anything, would you change about your Windows Phone 7?" Bombard away with what MS needs to be working on (file management or at least local document sync, direct Outlook sync, etc.) Please make sure what you guys write is thought out and most importantly, grammatically correct.
* Give us an official support page and a contact number for issues
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
* More frequent updates and force carriers to deploy them in maximum of 45 days
* Enable to use own MP3 ringtones
* Sync directly to Outlook
* Allow tethering
* Turn by turn navigation for Australia with better maps
* Allow unlocking of the device for a one of fee! Only charge per year when someone wants to submit to marketplace
janemanno1 said:
* Give us an official support page and a contact number for issues
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
* More frequent updates and force carriers to deploy them in maximum of 45 days
* Enable to use own MP3 ringtones
* Sync directly to Outlook
* Allow tethering
* Turn by turn navigation for Australia with better maps
* Tom Tom,Garmin etc GPS compatible software
* Allow unlocking of the device for a one of fee! Only charge per year when someone wants to submit to marketplace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to all of these.
Just changed one thing for every other country.
More recent hardware, and I am in.
agp64 said:
Amen to all of these.
Just changed one thing for every other country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed
Zune Pass in australia. Our zune hub isnt very pretty without it
Well, I would like to see multitasking, some options on the right of the home screen, let's say a button, that would open a line of Wifi on/off and etc., Copy paste, better browser. And what's important- update devices, give more info about the updates, what is coming and when
janemanno1 said:
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW, remember a little thing called "Longhorn" (aka "Vista")? So many promised features and released dates missed. I doubt you'll ever see anything other than vague descriptions and nebulous dates, Microsoft has been slapped around too much in the past for missing promises.
My comment:
- SkyDrive if you dont have sharepoint in the officehub.
- More reliable push notifications.
- Expanding Facebook integration with ability to send private messages from the message hub to facebook and other services... but this will probably not happen so hope the fb app gets better with notifications.
I would love to have a bug free ZUNE , it is crashing all the time and sometimes with BSOD'S
Turn-by-turn voice nav
User selectable ringtones and sounds
User created email folders
More themes and UI customization
Screen capture
Copy & paste
A good one:
http://wmpoweruser.com/the-art-of-stalling/
doministry said:
A good one:
http://wmpoweruser.com/the-art-of-stalling/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is unremarkably sad. I didn't know it was that serious.
That is unremarkably sad. I didn't know it was that serious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean remarkably sad?
And android wasn't the same way at launch?
I purchased the HTC Magic on launch day from Rogers.. Android market wasn't made available to us in Canada until roughly 5 months later..
I didn't get turn-by-turn until aprox a year or so later..
No voice search until ...what...3 updates which took roughly a year and half (1.5, 1.6...2.1)
They day I dumped my HTC magic I still didn't have local search.. unless I opened a browser and went to Google.CA and specified my city in the search field.
WP7 wil catch up eventually, it's still a baby OS compared to the others. Android didn't really become great until after 2.XX
I agree with other with the timeline business. I'd like to see that as well.
I just put a CDMA version of WP7.... It is about time we have the option of getting one.
Things to change about Windows Phone 7
--------------------------------------
1) Password protection on email. This is needed when you hand your phone to someone to check out or use and don't want them to be able to just click on your email while that happens and read private emails.
2) The marketplace should have an option to download first and install later. This is because public wifi or data plans in general are not nearly as fast as using your local wifi. You might pop into a coffee shop or mcdonalds to try some new apps on the go and you want to maximise your use of the wifi while you are there to get through the download queue. Installing/unpacking can take quite a long time but that can be done when you are no longer connected. This also aids in saving on limited data plans. With this approach, if there is no more space currently left to unpack the queue should move on and unpack successively but keep downloaded packages on the device to be installed later once the user frees up some more space.
3) Better managaement of marketplace download queue. I have had stuck downloads before, particularly at pending or corrupted downloads that were stuck at the installing phase. You should always be able to cancel or retry something. These options only come up when "attention is required". Queue reordering is also a strong "nice to have".
4) Better Management of phone download history. For example, when I restore a phone I don't want it to queue up literally everything I have ever "purchased", especially many trial or free apps. There should be a special "restore" queue for indispensible games/apps that you do want to automatically redownload when this happens.
5) Better lock phone i.e. android combination swype. The current 4 digit system is too easy to see over the shoulder and easily brute forceable, even more so if someone remembers only some of the digits.
6) Complete application data/isolated storage sync. Anytime you are at a local computer or connection to sync, you should have an option sync the latest application data for example news feeds and media as well. This way data connection apps are still useful in places without a connection i.e. subways. I understand this is a major feature just by itself
7) VPN options
8) Local file management/drag and drop.
9) Ability for Zune to play and organise media by folders with 8 implemented.
In general I think WP7 should be stronger with local/isolated storage features and not be so cloud dependent. The combination of cloud + local services will be a killer combination. In addition I think WP7 should be going after Android's #2 spot right now and not iPhone which it currently cannot compete with. Android has many weak spots including lower requirements on apps and games resulting in weaker quality when compared to WP7, lack of SD installability for many apps. and generally unpolished "iphone knockoff" feel. Secure #2 spot for now, which will be a good base to attack iPhone from. WP7 is already superior to Android in UX now and can gain quickly in app diversity and features.
Right now the OS feels like a beachhead but a strong one. There is good work, but unpolished and incomplete but the war can still be won. Keep fighting the good fight
The bottom line is that if MS wants this OS to fly for real, in the long term, they need to get their act together.
stillriza said:
I think you mean remarkably sad?
And android wasn't the same way at launch?
I purchased the HTC Magic on launch day from Rogers.. Android market wasn't made available to us in Canada until roughly 5 months later..
I didn't get turn-by-turn until aprox a year or so later..
No voice search until ...what...3 updates which took roughly a year and half (1.5, 1.6...2.1)
They day I dumped my HTC magic I still didn't have local search.. unless I opened a browser and went to Google.CA and specified my city in the search field.
WP7 wil catch up eventually, it's still a baby OS compared to the others. Android didn't really become great until after 2.XX
I agree with other with the timeline business. I'd like to see that as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what I hear you saying, any company that puts out products should not consider the current state of the industry? What should Apple do with the next iPhone? Put one out without all the current features and then migrate those features into it over the course of a year? Or how about the car companies, they should put out cars without navigation or high tech stereos or computer aided engine controls and just migrate those features into them over the course of a year?
Far be it from MS to stay up with even itself on new products and put out a smartphone without the current state of the industry features. Let them put those features in over the course of a year...or two. It's unwise to bring a mature product to market. People might begin to expect that kind of thing. Bollocks!
My feedback on the online survey:
-Current phone - WM 6.5
- Next phone - (i) Android
(ii) Other- Windows Mobile, if it is revived , will be preferred over Android
Suggestions:
(i) I don't like the Homescreen, it should be more customizable and at the very least the tiles
should be resizable.
(ii) There should be a favorite people hub with the option to pin a contact directly to this hub from
the contacts list (tap and hold on contact should give at least 3-4 options viz. pin to favorites, pin
to start, edit & send)
(iii) After device purchase, the user should have the option to replace the homescreen with an
approved one from reputed developers(I will prefer a solution from SPB software).
(iv) There is too much scrolling in the program list, option of grid view should also be there.
(v) Size of headings too large in the hubs. The headings should either be in a background layer or
they should Auto Hide after somtime and be replaced with blinking arrows on the left/right edges of
the screen.
(vi) File Explorer + Multitasking.
(vii) Office applictions should be more powerful.
(viii) Availability of powerful Calendar & Task management applications like pocket informant.
(x) Revival of Phone/End hardware buttons.
Forgot to add - (xi) Revive Smart-dialling
(xii) Bring back outlook sync
MartyLK said:
So what I hear you saying, any company that puts out products should not consider the current state of the industry? What should Apple do with the next iPhone? Put one out without all the current features and then migrate those features into it over the course of a year? Or how about the car companies, they should put out cars without navigation or high tech stereos or computer aided engine controls and just migrate those features into them over the course of a year?
Far be it from MS to stay up with even itself on new products and put out a smartphone without the current state of the industry features. Let them put those features in over the course of a year...or two. It's unwise to bring a mature product to market. People might begin to expect that kind of thing. Bollocks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.. but what I was saying is Android was the same way. Apple already had a pretty good grip on the market at the time Android launched. As per what you mentioned above.. it was clear Android didn't have a grasp of the then current state of the market. Several updates later.. and look at them now.
Basically, any company that puts out a product should consider the current state..but sadly that just doesn't always happen. The phone is pretty complete to I would like to say 70% of the general phone using public. It seems MS had targeted the OS to those switching from 'dumb' phones, if you will, to smart phones. The only people who are really hurting would be the power users. The updates will come.