Develop Bugs

wm7... the end?

Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...

I was wondering the same thing after watching the press event video, which is why I came here to see reaction.

As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's

It seems MS have built it for the sole purpose of cracking the "consumer" market. Looks incredibly pretty and i'm sure it will "work", however, whether it will be as appealing to the xda-dev community is another question!! A bit too early to say it's the end, but just from viewing the promotional videos, I can see my love for Android growing further!!

windows phone 7 has got me quite excited.. looking fwd to use it come december 2010.

I think you're right that it's just too early to tell. I hope you're right about the registry/hackable comment, though.

I am wondering would Microsoft be so stupid to create almost a totally new OS. If they do, i believe there will some sort of migrator to migrate apps to the new os. However i am seriously disappointed if they decide to remove mutiltask.

6.5.3 will remain alive and well for enterprise and developing markets, so even if we can't port winmo 7 there will still be updates to 6.5. Either way, MS has pretty much destroyed new app development for 6.5, as many of the major players will probably wait to develop exclusively for 7. I'm definately excited about 7 though; in the meantime it looks like android will be your friend if your looking for apps.

I think it will be a new beginning. However, the new SDK will likely be based on WPF or Silverlight, so the .NET knowledge of the current developers can be applied (however, WPF has IMHO a steep learning curve) and some code can be transferred. Game development will likely be based on XNA (you can already create Zune XNA games).
The big question for me is: Is publishing/installation of new applications as easy as it is currently the case? The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added. However, I think that Microsoft will be going a developer-friendly way, because the third party applications will make or brake the OS.

The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added.
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That's exactly what's happening...

i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...

I just hope m$ has not gone the apple way blocking all development !
that will be a really really sad day on XDA.
Too early to say.
First few leaks should arrive some months hence.

irdawood said:
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
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I think you didn't paid attention to what was said in the conference.
They said, on top OEM's can customize it to add their experience to it. So HTC and other can customize it, but not to the extend of WM 6.5's case. That's because to give a consistent experience to us ( users ).
Please don't get into conclusion's without understanding what was said.

well here's a video
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/

yerand said:
Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?

Well, it is new, Microsoft stated that it has more restrictions, and its pretty much a brand new os, because microsoft also stated that its built from the ground up, therefore its like porting android to a winmo phone. It has very little of its older winmo roots.

ibsa03 said:
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with u the reason i bought my htc fuze and sold my nokia phone was because i love how cuztomizeable wm is and even if they become like apple there is always android

But wasnt there supposed to be an OEM version of Windows Mobile 7 that could be customized by third party's such as HTC? From what I saw of the press coverage, we were just seeing the "interface" much like titanium and Touchflo.....but who knows....

semmtexx said:
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
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It may well be that it is the most easy to crack ever, However, i dobt that
@Microsoft, WHY!!!???! if i wanted an consumer OS, i would of purchased an iBrick
Why not kill 6.6, make 6.9 with the winmo 7 kernal and code in some .NET support and let HTC work it's magic
Badwolve1

for a long time, the older phones (wizard old) have been able to run the newest versions (6.5.3). i think this is gonna end development on those old phones. hopefully we will get it to run on the new phones like the hd2

WP7 or wait for new webOS device?

Hey,anyone got an idea?I should wait for webOS new devices come out on early2011 or buy a windows phone 7 device?personally I love portrait slider phone, so I would like to compare dell lightning and palm pre series phones here. anyone got a suggestion?please share here...I'll consider it...

Personally I think webOS it basically dead now. HP may try to do some good stuff with it in a tablet possibly, but I think palm just tried as hard as they could, and webOS really didn't bring anything outrageously different or excellent to the table; it just seems like Palm decided to say "here's our try at what everyone else is doing now". WP7 is a complete reboot of a phone OS from a very large company, many people feel as if it's going to do very well, they have a lot of carrier support and developer support, and the hardware is going to be killer. I really don't think it's much of a contest.

sylau90 said:
Hey,anyone got an idea?I should wait for webOS new devices come out on early2011 or buy a windows phone 7 device?personally I love portrait slider phone, so I would like to compare dell lightning and palm pre series phones here. anyone got a suggestion?please share here...I'll consider it...
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Click to collapse
yes i will recomand you to wait for the new web OS device in 2011... WEB OS is dead.... and just for your info i saw somewhere that palm pre will not have a keyboard....
if the guys will expalin to you what is Windows Phone 7 OS u will not get it as you only want a potrait slider phone...
Dell is not going to be as agressive as HTC or Samsung on launching there phones...

WebOS is far from dead, new devices coming early 2011.

vetvito said:
WebOS is far from dead, new devices coming early 2011.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the information.LOL,I have watched over 10 youtubue videos about palm pre plus in last few days. It is pretty awesome(synergy and card were impressive) and I found quite a lot of hackers jalibreak it and putting homebrew apps into the device to make it perfect.
I think it's good to wait until early 2011...
if someone has the same thoughts with me,you can go to this website...and you will find webOS is not dead...
www.precentral.net

djcaston said:
Personally I think webOS it basically dead now. HP may try to do some good stuff with it in a tablet possibly, but I think palm just tried as hard as they could, and webOS really didn't bring anything outrageously different or excellent to the table; it just seems like Palm decided to say "here's our try at what everyone else is doing now". WP7 is a complete reboot of a phone OS from a very large company, many people feel as if it's going to do very well, they have a lot of carrier support and developer support, and the hardware is going to be killer. I really don't think it's much of a contest.
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Click to collapse
Agreed completely. I do hope there is a place for WebOs to be implemented though. D=
Seems like such a waste of hard work. Let it prevail in tablets!

Android Pleasee!!

Anyone know if someone is trying to run android on a phone windows 7 (samsung or hd7 Hdt.)
Please would be ideal, Windows Phone has almost no apps, no flash player and also of other faults.
Please I'm a volunteer to test on my phone.
Someone who has the courage to modify.

why? Man, there is an android device on every single carrier at almost all prices. I can understand iOS on android (even though thats not possible)...but there are just so many android devices. I'm sorry, but for this one, I'm just gonna have to say "if you want android, but an android device."
And if you put it in perspective, android on these phones will just be like its android counterpart. A samsung WP7 should perform like the galaxy s phone and an htc device should perform like the Evo or N1. Performance is not that great when compared to WP7 so you'd probably hop right back on WP7. A port wouldnt be as smooth as the original (at first) so it'd be like a double whammy.

stop trolling and buy a fu**in crappy android phone !
Why the hell did you even buy WP7 ??

I'm not sure if you're just trolling or remarkably stupid but either way you're wasting your time.

Please I am not offending anybody to start and secondly then if there is celphones in each company and is not necessary because I modified the HD2 .

Juan Bond said:
Please I am not offending anybody to start and secondly then if there is celphones in each company and is not necessary because I modified the HD2 .
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I can't tell what you are trying to say here so I'm not even going to try and understand it. If you want android get an ANDROID PHONE. For Christ's sake why would you put Android on a WP7 device when the HTC Thunderbolt, Atrix 4G, Inspire 4G, etc just came out? Why not buy one of those?

Juan Bond said:
Please I am not offending anybody to start and secondly then if there is celphones in each company and is not necessary because I modified the HD2 .
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Click to collapse
No one is working on it, no one wants it worked on, if you wanted android you should have bought that cheap laggy garbage.

Juan Bond said:
Anyone know if someone is trying to run android on a phone windows 7 (samsung or hd7 Hdt.)
Please would be ideal, Windows Phone has almost no apps, no flash player and also of other faults.
Please I'm a volunteer to test on my phone.
Someone who has the courage to modify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is a proper response:
Which phone do you own? You said HTC HD7 or Samsung.
If you do not own either you are better off buying an HTC Desire HD. It is nearly identical with slightly better hardware and actually is made with Android on it.
If you have a near mint condition Samsung Omnia 7 send me a PM if you want to sell it.

Juan Bond said:
Anyone know if someone is trying to run android on a phone windows 7 (samsung or hd7 Hdt.)
Please would be ideal, Windows Phone has almost no apps, no flash player and also of other faults.
Please I'm a volunteer to test on my phone.
Someone who has the courage to modify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I'm sure people take your question as trolling, I think it's a semi-legitimate thing to ask on xda. The short answer to your question is no. It's not worth the time and effort to try and port Android to these devices. Android is available on virtually every carrier in some form, and most of them have higher-spec devices available. It would simpler to go buy one of those if you want Android.
-R

sketchy9 said:
While I'm sure people take your question as trolling, I think it's a semi-legitimate thing to ask on xda. The short answer to your question is no. It's not worth the time and effort to try and port Android to these devices. Android is available on virtually every carrier in some form, and most of them have higher-spec devices available. It would simpler to go buy one of those if you want Android.
-R
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the correct answer to the OP's question.
Thread closed.

Damage control suggestions for Microsoft/Nokia in light of all this?

Although I understand why WP8 will not be compatible with existing devices, the bad PR is not exactly helping Microsoft/Nokia. The consolation prize of WP7.8 is not enough to dispel the Osborne Effect that is very likely to occur between now and the time WP8 devices are released.
So let's use this topic to suggest some damage control possibilities based on what's happening NOW, not what Microsoft coulda/shoulda/woulda done (there are plenty of other topics covering the latter).
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device. Depending on the trade-in amount, it may or may not stop the bleeding from the Osborne-inflicted wounds, though.
Any other suggestions?

killerb255 said:
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?

An expansion of the "Registered Enthusiasts" program that would give us carrier locked stock images of a stripped down WP8 build or a $100 credit from Microsoft upon request.

sitizenx said:
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?
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Aside from the word "you" in the second sentence, good point. Many people got the Lumia 900 for free with contract, so it's not like they're being totally shafted.
Other suggestions or rebuttals? Keep in mind that the PR is still bad, and people are not exactly thinking "well, I got a free phone, I should be grateful." They're thinking "OMG, M$ jus skrewd mez!"

Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.

I think trade in is the way forward. Based on IMEI they would know what phones were sold free, subsidized or full price. Pay the trade in value accordingly.
Sent from my Titan using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy

guilhermedsx said:
I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A better analogy would be comparing Windows 9x (95/98/Millennium) with NT (2000/XP/Vista/7/8). Those have different kernels, but can run on the same x86 processors.
Either way, your point has merit. Windows RT is being written for ARM architecture...why not Windows Phone 8? One possibility could be that current hardware is just too dang slow, and we could have another early-gen Android-like situation, where single-core Android phones that aren't optimized (i.e.: rooted, Wi-Fi turned off, kill unused background apps, etc) run slow.
If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
AndyFZ1S said:
I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully they release a complete list of updates to be put in Windows Phone 7.8, if for no other reason than to try and pacify the masses.
...of course this is assuming that the complete list consists of more than just the WP8 UI update...
vetvito said:
Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I wonder if Nokia can afford to wait that long...

The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.

If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
At least they are saying 'WP7 programs might have to have a 'minor' tweak' to run on 8... will give WP7 users some hope.
(I'm on the edge of getting a 900 (still running my tilt 2), but I'm not happy about some of the aps that I use on the t2 aren't available for WP7). The developers say 'they are looking into it'...
Tim

Nokia has done trade-ins before. I remember them doing it for at least the last 2 years.
At least this would be an option for those are complaining that they are stuck with the same phone for the remaining of their contract. Plus, it would help generate some momentum when the new devices are introduced. Microsoft is going to need to WP8 users right away and cannot wait multiple years to reach 2%. So give people who were loyal a discount when the phones are launched.
Microsoft, Nokia, and others could very well do nothing like when WP7 replaced Windows Mobile. We also know that there were large numbers of people who left permanently when this happened.

eeeelliott said:
The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Microsoft have apparently said that WP7.8 is the start screen only. See links below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEB8CC228C5239441&v=fTNHgfy7lY8&feature=player_detailpage#t=5052s
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476

tim051 said:
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. WP7 programs will still work on WP8.
tim051 said:
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.

Can we jailbreak Lumia 900 to change UI and install third party apps?

Hi Folks,
Sorry if this thread is a duplicate. I couldn't find anything on web regarding jailbreaking Lumia 900. I'm really frustrated with W7 mobile OS. Like many of you I moved from apple/android just to try different. But now I'm feeling very bad about my decision and am stuck with this piece for another year. I was wondering if there is jailbreak software available. I just can't download and install anything on this phone. A simple change of theme or font is also restricted. Maybe I'm not aware of techniques which would help. Can someone please tell me how to install new themes, change look of the interface, make it more lively like android or IOS interface? Appeciate your response.
Thanks,
Rookie19

It is rooting, not jail breaking.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda app-developers app

There is no way to get "root" on the Lumia 900 at the moment. Even then all you can really do is add new accent colors to tweak the UI. I don't think font's can be changed, and you certainly can't make it look more like iOS or Android.

exiva said:
There is no way to get "root" on the Lumia 900 at the moment. Even then all you can really do is add new accent colors to tweak the UI. I don't think font's can be changed, and you certainly can't make it look more like iOS or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Hope someone figures out rooting this mobile soon.

It may come, but with the 920 on the Horizon, I'd call it a safe bet that what little interest there seems to be in the dev community on the 900 (None.) will drop even lower.

Agreed ...

exiva said:
It may come, but with the 920 on the Horizon, I'd call it a safe bet that what little interest there seems to be in the dev community on the 900 (None.) will drop even lower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well it seems (base on what i have read) that the nokia's bootloader is way locked down. i bought a lumia 900 just to play around with it before the lumia 920 comes out. i was hoping to see some form of development for the 900 but that seems unlikely. which is really sad. i was hoping to learn from some development in the 900 so when i buy the 920 ill be ready. all this lack of development for the 900 (while some of the windows phone like the focus has lots of development. which one dev already cooked up a wp8 rom for) is making me think twice about jumping on the 920 bandwagon. good thing that pawnshop i bought the nokia lumia 900 from does 30days money back guarantee hehe.
i was debating between the 920 and the galaxy note 2. now im leaning more towards the note2. man i really wanted to get a nokia phone (my go to phone brand before the iphone came out).
on the side note: how the heck do you lower the keyboard keys volume down or at least turn them off. its starting to annoy me
edit: found how to turn off keys sound. anyway to just lower the volume in them?

It's under settings/ringtones+sounds.
untick Key Press

It's all about interest
I retired a Samsung Focus that I had a great, and very time consuming, time modifying and flashing. I think there are several things going on here. I believe the type of person who buys the Nokia Lumia 900, in general, has little interest in modifying beyond what the OS provides. In addition, the OS is getting better all the time and eliminating the need to modify. These are just general observations. I know several of you will come back and say, "Hey, I want to flash and modify". OK, great. Most people do not. I no longer have any desire to go beyond what new releases of the OS provides. Why the heck would anyone want to buy a WP7 device to mod it to look like the Android or IPhone OS????? That is absurd. If you want those OS's and UI's, buy them, but don't complain that WP7 won't let you make it look like those other UI's.
I have a Nokia 900 that has never had a reboot, freeze or slowdown in almost a year. I would NEVER go back to the days of custom ROMs and sideloaded XAPs and the slowdowns, feezes and random reboots that come along with the wild, wild west approach. No thank you to that mess. When I was into it I convinced myself I had to do it and it was fun. Now that I have WP7.5 and the Nokia 900, I know I was only fooling myself and I wasted hours a day.
I don't believe there is a chorus of users asking for this, nor developer interest in doing the work to find loophole to take advantage of.

Amen Brother!

Yes, interest
Hi James Allen, hi all
Sorry about my english, I'm from Spain.
In my opinion, you're full in right. If people whant's something else, why don't they by "this" something else.
I'm fully satisfy with my Lumia 900. It's smart, fast, and I did not see one error or bug in the hole month since I bought it.
OS Version 7.10.8779.8
Firmware Version 2175.2503.8779.12301
It just would be nice to could put my self-made xap on it (no third party) I'm programmer. As I red, that the Lumia would approve to run Silverlight-Applications, it was one point more, to get it. I'm working for a project in Silverlight/C# professionally and on my own I have developed many tools in several areas. It just would be nice to get them running on this little fine handy. But for trying and so, it's to much to pay $99 a year just to could put 10 Applications inside. And never know, if they will be something at the end.
Right this tools you named, I was trying last weekend to make them run (hours to find something, and then to see, it's impossible),
ChevronWP7 and WP7 Root Tools to unlock the phone and access the file system.
Like you, I spent mounths with stuff like that, Nokia, Samsung, Wii, Dreambox (I never liked the iPhone), and at the end it just was for waisting time. I never play with my Wii and when, only Mario (with the Game I bought), with the games in Samung Handy, I played about 2 days. and my Dreambox ist empty in a box, cause after bring it to work, when I watch TV, then just a Blu-ray or DVD, so I erased all and putted away. My friends look at me, as would I be an alien
But this time it's different, I want my phone to get running my applications but it seems I have to wait for a custom rom for a long time, or to make my tools get running on the sdk-emulator, and if it seems to be good, to pay this damn $99.
Anyway it was really interesting, to read what you wrote on friday.
If you have some information about to get running the "ChevronWP7" and/or the "WP7 Root Tools" on Lumia 900, every help is really welcome!
Till there is something, I first go on developping
Have a nice Sunday!

JamesAllen said:
I have a Nokia 900 that has never had a reboot, freeze or slowdown in almost a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How's that possible? The Lumia 900 is only 6 months in the market...?