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Microsoft (re)confirms HTC HD2s won't run Windows Phone 7 operating system [zdnet]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
As HD2 owner I am dissapointed.

Again!!
But its just a spokeperson.. so we can't track the source... wich makes it a rumor..

Who cares what someone says at microsoft......they keep saying "No No No" like Amy winehouse....... HD2 can support it with EASE.
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
What ever I say to microsoft......they like it or not....WE WILL get WP7S on out HD2 phones.....I love XDA !

One of the main reasons I got the HD2 was that I thought it would be upgradeable... I'm still hoping that it'll happen, one way or another.

I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.

vardig said:
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
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Existing hardware on desktops is upgradeable and Microsoft even gave free updates for systems purchased within the months leading up to release.
It's funny how they still leave the door slightly open with their statement.
The first device that has WP7 on it (as long as it doesn't suck) I'll be buying. My Touch Pro is due for retirement.

if you have read the article you will clearly see that the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently. but WP7 wont be out until around christmas....so curruntly they may not have have an update, but by release time they might. sometimes u have to read in between the lines...its something they are deffinatley working on, because if they werent, they could just give a straight answer instead of beating around the bush.

as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.

Guerrilla Milli said:
the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently
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No, the key word is "don't".

Yeah when someone says they currently don't have any plans it means they aren't going to do it unless it has a major effect on their business if they don't.

really?
Then that means all the 6.X device can not update to windows phone 7 severies !
Hope some oone could tans 7 to 6.X.
I am waiting
If nothing could do to refresh i will think about android or other os.........

Kloc said:
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
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Not really... I'm really annoyed that I, (probably) won't be able to get the new OS on my new 'phone, but let's not forget that the HD2 is still one kick-ass mobile, and I am still seriously impressed with it.
The only thing that annoys me is the amount of people who, on seeing my phone for the first time, say "Ooh, is that an iPhone"

mr_lindy said:
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
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Click to collapse
Really have no idea what you're talking about, mate.

what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait

domineus said:
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
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I'm definitely waiting. I was thinking about upgrading to HD2 but I'll just stick with my Touch Pro2 til the holidays.

I've wanted the HD2 from the second I put my eyes on it. It's everything I wanted in a phone minus the slide out keyboard, but the screen size made me willing to bypass that. Then I saw Windows Phone 7 and realized I wanted it on my HD2. Not being able to have it on the HD2 is surely making me reevalutate my future purchase of the tmo HD2 which is released on 3/24.
I may not get the phone at all and I really find that to be a sad thing for myself, HTC, Microsoft and TMobile USA.

Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait

chalid said:
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
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Well... I should have waited for a good Android phone instead of the HD2.
I'm not at all interested in the dumb iPhone copycat OS that WP7S is. Good UI, but other than that, they've just copied Apple's bad bad policies (out of envy, I think).
I'm not going to adjust myself to an OS that doesn't multitask, doesn't let me install the stuff I want because of Marketplace censorship, doesn't let me manage my files on my own etc.
With Android, like WM6.5, I can have an OS that simply does what I want it to do. I don't have to adjust myself. That's how it should be.
Thus, the only regret I have is that I've not waited for a good Android phone, because WM6.5 is doomed and now nobody will develop anymore for it, whereas the quantity AND quality of the applications on Android has now surpassed Windows Mobile, and the OS itself is almost there.

I'm not sorry either... I change my phones every year - as flashy and useful and nice as they are, they don't last as long as $50 Nokia dumbphones did.
I use my HD2 very heavily and, apart from increased tear, this toy is much more important to me than a regular phone. As such, it absolutely needs to be the best toy around.
Also, the earlier I sell my phones, the more money I'll get.
I love it and enjoy using it for the most part, but by the end of the year I'm sure there will be devices available that I'll want more, and the love affair with HD2 will be pretty much a thing of the past.
Finally, even though I like what I see as regards to WP7, I'm not at all sure it will have the essential apps I need or that it will live up to the promise in its v.1 incarnation.
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.

vangrieg said:
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
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So Android buyers buy a principle?! Nonsense... they buy Android phones. Simple as that.
And of course, they buy them because they prefer them to other phones.
And of course, Android's features are reasons to prefer Android phones to other phones - and multitasking, for example, is one of them.
I don't like Google, I don't like Java... but if Google's OS is the only one to suit my needs, then I buy a Google phone. Because I'm not buying a principle (i.e. not Google or not Java), I am buying a phone (i.e. the phone that does what I need it to do).

My Thoughts on WP7

I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry

Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.

I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.

+1 good post b

A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.

gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..

Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.

style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.

@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.

pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.

style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.

It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Click to collapse
Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.

Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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Click to collapse
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....

RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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Click to collapse
That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?

Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.

If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~

vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.

Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.

Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S

Won't we do nothing against WM7 jail ?

Hi Everyone,
I'm very worried about all I've eared recently on coming WM7
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
And a MarketPlace build on the Itunes-Jail-Model...
So my question is :
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Would someone start a petition saying that if Microsoft keep going this way, we'll all move to Android !
Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if XDA display this petition everywhere, we might grow fast and make some noise. It's not too late.
What do you think ?

from what I heard everyone at MIX10 loved WP7, as the majority of people will. We are just bunch of freaks. Even XDA camp is split up, at least half of people dig it as well.

It is high time WinMobile moved forward. Donno if Windows Phone 7 is the way to go, but I think the WM interface never really worked when touch screens came in.
As for opening it up, well I agree MS should make it as easy as possible for people to develop for free. Unfortunately it probably won't be, at least for a good while yet which is huge shame.
MS will want to make money from it, and gain market share and for now that means locked down with Apps Store route. Hopefully they will open it up for free developers in time or they will never gain anything over the options.

Won't we do something to stop that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you think they WANT us to TALK about it, until REAL thing will come out...
It looks like weird advert campaign.
But funny, that people who bought their HD2 were simply fooled.
Few millions there, another there...pure FUN.

Honestly, I'd say there's roughly zero chance of XDA or anyone else being able to change Microsoft's mind on these issues prior to WP7 launch. They thought long and hard about all these things and know some of the decisions will make a certain amount of developers and tweakers unhappy, but really they're focused on creating a revolutionary UX, and to do so they need to control certain things more than before. If you've seen the demo apps from MIX hopefully most will agree it's worthwhile pain for the expected gain.
Microsoft isn't turning it's back on the WM dev community though - the tools for developing on WP7 are excellent (so long as you're already doing managed code at least), and now all free. It's impressive the things you can do with Silverlight/XNA/Blend on WP7.
Richard

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!). I bought my Leo for wm7. I veryvery disappointed in microsoft. I going to move to Android!

Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..because this is not a reason.
This is game about getting attention.
Very, very strange way of advertising, to be honest.
They are sure, that people will buy ANOTHER 500+$ device just to get their feeble bs. Ridiculous.
(personal opinion).
-------------
I bought my Leo for wm7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Name it, lol. This is exactly same thing as Kaiser and its drivers(if there is someone who remember these times - users were told they will get DRIVERS...yeah, right - people did not learn, i assume).
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.

pupakota said:
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree, there is so much available which is good for wm5, wm6 etc but wp7 with new start should open up even more possibility of graphically rich and media centred experience. In theory that is.
Look at the development between wm5 and wm6, hardly anything in how long? Hopefully it will be updating interfaces only for wm7, spb and htc have both realised that people want more eye candy than wm could provide.
I love windows mobile but I like the iPhone package, only because it appears to work. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone because there might be an app for everything, but with wm there's a free app for everything. (Although not when big companies forget about wm!)
If WP7 is free to develop on, using MS tools, then fingers crossed the draw of fast fancy graphics and features will bring back developers from iPhone only apps. No doubt MS will extract their pound of flesh first but hopefully it won't end up locked down like the iPhone.
Then again, there may only be fancy graphics in WP7 and no substance or power left for anything else, but without WP7 don't you think WM would end up being shelved (and where would the little apps go then? somebody think of the apps). Perhaps Android is the future!
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.

im sure WP7 will be quite a success, you need to remember that most phone users are not enthusiasts like us. What the general public want and what we want are very different criteria. See how popular Iphone is!
I see no problem with WP7 not having
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
there is already WM 6.5 that does have these things and there is no wait until its released because we already have it.
Maybe in the future when no more WM 6 devices are produced we will have a tough choice on picking a new device, or maybe people will cook 6.5 for the WP7 handsets (upgrade with older version ha ha)

There is nothing we can do. Even if whole xda makes petition or something, who cares about some stupid forum where geeks want do to something?
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Im suprised that they allow QWERTY.
Also where is competition here? What can phone vendors do to make their phone better? Most stuff is already standarized, so there will be bunch of same devices on market.

Personally I think they're taking all of the flexibility and breadth of applications away from the platform and moving towards the pointless "There's a crApp for that" mentality.
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.

MS won't change it's mind no matter what, they are trying the Apple approach, at least we still have Android, too bad cuz I loved WM...

The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if they do mess up wm, then think what the combined effort could do with Android instead!

Seems everything nowadays (Not just Windows Mobile) is all about moving towards "locking things down", taking away the control from the regular people ala iphone style... and people seems to just accept it with a smile on their lips.
Companies are trying to control everything their employies (correct english?) do, trying to prevent them to use facebook at work and logs everything they do online... Seriously, what the f^** is going on??? Why not implement internet filters all over the world aswell? Buy the technology from China!
Soon when microsoft have killed windows mobile, android will be the only option for me at least...
Maybe Windows Phone series 7 or whatever they call it will be a huge success, but it's not windows mobile anymore, ok it's finger friendly but the OS will be as restricted as China itself. WM the way we like it will soon be history...
I will enjoy the freedom while it lasts and stick to current wm until I'll switch to Android...

khaytsus said:
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read WebOS is going bye bye. Palm will be switching to Android. Shame. I never used it but from what I've read it had great potential.
I am indifferent to WP7 till i use it myself. I am not upgrading anytime soon and am waiting for a the next step up from the Rhodium(in all aspects) be it an Android or a WP7.
WP7 will take time to work out the kinks. It might not cater to everyones needs at first but I have faith that it will one day be something only Fanatics and Apple Fanboys will hate. <GARTH>"We fear change!"</GARTH>

@ owziee
++1
Hope that, all of you guys, have signed the petition...
Of course it won't change Microsoft'sMind.
But "Who doesn't do, doesn't get"
It starts there....

dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you imagine MS will do if no one buys WP7S? WP7S is the last roll of the dice. If it fails, MS will get out of the mobile device market completely.

Except that it will hardly happen, general public couldn't care less about jails and even breaking them.

I guaranty there will be loads of people who will buy it because they want xbox live and zune on their phones and I reckon I'll join them as I'm getting fed up of phones that suddenly start becoming stuttery randomly, or has bugs that I have to end up waiting for an operator to release their branded version of a to ROM fix because I don't want to void my warranty and basically I don't get the time to endlessly flash new ROMS these days.
But I'll still be hanging onto my WM6.5 HD2

Why WP7 is 'failing'.

Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.

I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)

I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.

I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.

otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.

Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.

failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..

I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading

There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.

Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.

lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.

rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.

IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).

Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.

I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.

pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.

I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.

lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.

lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.

Wp7 vs 6.5 Development

I have an HD2 and before Android was fully ported over there were tons of Windows Mobile 6.5 ROMS to choose from. I am planning on selling my HD2 and possibly getting a HD7 but first wanted to get some input from you all. Right now I am running WP7 on my HD2 but really want to get an actual phone that runs WP7. So before I jump in to the WP7 scene I was wondering where do you all see the WP7 development in the short future? Mainly with custom ROMS and apps. Would you say it will probably follow the same path as 6.5 because as of now it looks pretty bad? Thanks guys!

When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...

N8ter said:
When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...
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Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?

Jim Coleman said:
Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?
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I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.

The OP asked about the future, so clearly, next month is part of the near future, right? You just need to bring your pessimistic venom in here too, huh.
To the OP, as far as ROMs go, WP7 wasn't designed with that in mind, and to be honest, you really don't need custom ROMs, as they really wouldn't add anything. The UI, as I'm sure even people like N8ter would agree, is second to none in terms of efficiency, and with time, the features will greatly increase (like the Mango live tiles, the concept of Nokia 3D tiles). Where in WM6.5 we NEEDED to flash to make the phone usable, we don't need that with WP7.
As for apps, as of now, the apps are pushing the allowed apis to their limits for the most part. Microsoft was pretty shelled with their apis on the initial release, and that was due to missing functionality. With the Mango api, you'll see a slew of apps hit the marketplace, big named apps such as Skype to be more specific as the platform will flash much more impressive features. In the next month and a half to two months we'll get an idea as to what ideas will start forming with these new apis, but look for the releases to be huge.
Games are about to take off in an even bigger way too, with big names like Hydro Thunder and Angry Birds starting to come out, and I see more coming with time, and available features.
With that being said, I suggest you try the phone out for yourself, as it isn't for everybody. If you're somebody who insists on having a registry editor just *because* you feel the need to look at one, then this isn't for you. Or if you feel you need full device control for absolutely no reason, this isn't for you. But if you enjoy a phone that just works, and does what it's currently capable of extremely well, then you've got a winner.

N8ter said:
I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.
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dreamspark...

Thanks guys for the info! Like I said, I am running WP7 on my HD2 right now because the whole Android hype wore out on me. I am loving it right now but as updates are getting harder and taking longer to port over I just see it easier to get an actual WP7 phone. This is exactly what I wanted to hear since I was traumatized with the lack WM 6.5 apps, especially good ones.
So from what I read it looks like in the next couple of weeks and months WP7 is definitely going to take off. So long Android!!

Wp7 is pretty stable for everyday use. Its just missing some features, but to a normal everyday usage you won't miss them. Even with the nodo update I still don't use copy and paste. But if you're into total control and customization you should stick with an Android phone.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I don't think we need custom roms.
All they did was speed up the system etc. They were needed on WM because it sucked and on Android to remove bloatware, custom firmwares, speed it up etc.
WP7 doesn't need Speeding Up and there's no Bloatware or anything like that to remove. I don't see what a custom rom would achieve.

i think there is no realy need for curstom roms, too. There is a need for some missing features which will come and i dont think they can be done on homebrew way.
App situation at the moment is a bit limited and with mango this will get much better (for example -> photosynth), so i think, the real app "explosion" at wp7 market comes with mango (and nokia market start)
My opinion

domineus said:
dreamspark...
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I'm not a college student. Dreamspark doesn't exist to me.

N8ter said:
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
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Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.

DaFlake said:
Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.
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I don't expect it to go away. I just code for Android instead.