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Should there be a dedicated section where all xda-members can submit their stuff through a pre-defined form? Like with the following features:
Subcategories
for themes: WM 6.5, Titanium, Sense, WAD, Mobile Shell, lockscreen, boot animations, icons etc.
for ROMs: per device (every device gets its own subcategory)
Pre-defined fields, for example
compability (WM 5, 6, 6.5, 6.5.3)
resolution (QVGA, WVGA etc.)
CAB install (yes/no)
for ROMs: build, free RAM etc.
Filter by fields (for example only WM 6.5.3 and QVGA)
additionally presets for common devices, like WM 6.5 and WVGA for HD2 (already implemented in the current frontpage)
Rating system (which should not be placed in some drop-down nearly out of view like on the forums)
Sort by rating, views last x days, last update etc.
Featured entries which show up on front page
Provide file hosting space
I think you get the idea, it's vaguely similar to freewarepocketpc.net. The main benefit would be that it's a lot easier, especially for new people, to find the things they're looking for, and a forum thread isn't exactly the best and easiest-to-maintain way to show off your apps/themes/ROMs. Fields additionally ensure consistency among all posts.
Also, right now the more posts, the more attention a thread gets. This poses the problem that, for example, an app where many users post to report a problem gets more attention than another app where everything just works fine, as only a small minority bothers to post a "thank you". As almost no one rates threads (on the average there is less than one rating for 10,000 views) and even fewer people sort threads by views or rating, these apps (or themes or whatever) do not get the attention they deserve. With a rating system and the ability to sort by it, this problem could be solved.
Of course, the implementation of such a system could be somewhat challenging. I only want to hear what others think of this idea.
What do you think? Like the idea or not? Leave a comment and vote, thanks !
I think this is a brilliant idea, it's like an app store, but with apps ETC... will support in anyway i can
Badwolve1 said:
I think this is a brilliant idea, it's like an app store, but with apps ETC... will support in anyway i can
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Yea idd! Like an app store, but with apps!
No seriously, good idea. The more active a post is, the more visitors it will get. Lots of good stuff after page 10 of the dev category aswell haha.
Yep, not only that but also the consistency and accessability, especially for new people, will be a great advantage. I also contacted svetius and he seems to like this idea, so I hope this will be done in the future. Thanks for your support guys!
Livven said:
Yep, not only that but also the consistency and accessability, especially for new people, will be a great advantage. I also contacted svetius and he seems to like this idea, so I hope this will be done in the future. Thanks for your support guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need to put this in our Sigs who has photoshop (He says to the theme designer )
I think it's a great idea - especially for noobies. I don't have developers skills but have learned much over the years just reading and browsing threads. Enough to even add some simplistic help here and there. But most people don't have time to look through many threads hoping to find some glitter of gold they are looking for. This might slow down the "Is there an app for this?" threads. Not everyone has time to just sit and browse but those of us who want to might not have so many uninformative threads to look at.
I would suggest a link to the initial thread where support could be given and all the "Thank you" responses kept in the new posting. And with all the needed information posted up front it might also stop all the "Will this work on my XXXX?
Hope it can happen!
That´s a great idea, I miss this database here..would help a lot!
A very good idea to have a database here & it's references!
yeah it would be great
We've gotten many requests for this, and it's clearly something we would like to do. There are two (obvious) issues:
1. Figuring out the best implementation method -- Can we somehow use Wordpress (which is what the portal runs on now)? If not, what CMS? Exactly how should the database be structured? That's not exactly a simple question given all the different permutations of devices/operating systems/resolutions that are supported by different software.
2. Figuring out how to keep it updated -- Do we rely on the devs to post their creations both in the forums and the database? Or do we have volunteers scan the forums daily to pull stuff into a app database? That sounds like a boring job . Anyway, we don't want to spend the time building something unless we have a sustainable and affordable model for keeping it going.
Anyway, if anyone is serious about helping us implement something (conceptual design, development, etc), send me a detailed PM. Or we can discuss it here.
As it is, this is definitely on my list to figure out, but there are also 5 or 6 other things (some front-end stuff like the forum re-design and other back-end server stuff). Plus to the extent all these projects have some cost, we like to spread them out.
1. I don't think WordPress, as a blogging tool, is suited for something like this. Drupal, with the module CCK, provides this kind of funtionality out of the box, and you won't need to worry about how the database is structured. Then we'd just need a custom theme (perhaps the same ones who are currently redesigning the forum).
2. If new things are only posted in the new section, then a forum thread with a summary, link etc. should be created automatically in the right subforum. So, threads will only be used for discussion, not for presentation.
For any further discussion of this idea, I'd like to suggest we keep it in this thread, so everyone can see it and comment.
Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.
mic_888 said:
Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.
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i think ppcmods.com is making some progress on this subject
mic_888 said:
Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.
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Click to collapse
That shouldn't be a problem as the entries will be maintained by the respective creators like forum threads.
So, whens it going to be up n running?
willing to BETA test
YES! I'd strongly recommend Joomla and DocMan or any other similar component. I've used it successfully on other sites and it's terrific.
app store, what a great idea!
I was wondering what resources are out there to become a DEV and make my own ROM's. I have googled it a little bit and not really found anything worth while so far. I did run across a good book but its not going to be published for another 2 months. Does anyone know of any tutorials? Books? How to guides?
There are plenty of kitchens right here on xda. And remember when you search on google add on xda to whatever you are searching. I had a bunch of bookmarks for this but never backed them up. Sorry buddy.
Sent from my BAD A$$ EPIC TOUCH 4G
I didn't think about using the term kitchen when searching. I will give that a shot. Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
bdpatch said:
I was wondering what resources are out there to become a DEV and make my own ROM's. I have googled it a little bit and not really found anything worth while so far. I did run across a good book but its not going to be published for another 2 months. Does anyone know of any tutorials? Books? How to guides?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would read google's documentation on Android, learn Linux commands, and also learn java. This is a good start. If you use kitchens, you are not dev'ing. After this, reading the cyanogen wiki will teach you some of the less "official" deving methods.
Edit:
Links
First go here and learn all of it. (weeks of hard work and dedication)
http://linuxcommand.org/index.php
Then go to a local library and pick up a recently published book on java programming and learn it. (weeks of hard work)
Then learn all of this (more weeks of hard work)
http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html
Then learn all of this (more weeks of hardwork)
http://www.freeyourandroid.com/index.php
Finally get involved with Cyanogenmod
Becoming a dev is a huge commitment, it is why professional devs are paid so well.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
kingsway8605 said:
I Becoming a dev is a huge commitment, it is why professional devs are paid so well.
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I'm just curious, how much do devs usually make and who actually pays them?
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Sn1per 117 said:
I'm just curious, how much do devs usually make and who actually pays them?
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Click to collapse
I said professional devs. The hobbyist devs on xda usually are doing it because they enjoy doing it and picked up the skills over the years. But it isn't any easier and that is why the behavior on the forums sometimes annoys them. As far as professional devs who work for a company like Samsung, they make between 50,000-100,000 a year.
As far as independent professional devs, Paper camera has sold over 1,000,000 apks at 2 dollars a pop, do the math.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
I say make a couple of apps first and learn how Android works. Then move to themeing, then make kernels, then roms
Sent from my Epic™ 4G Touch
kingsway8605 said:
I said professional devs. The hobbyist devs on xda usually are doing it because they enjoy doing it and picked up the skills over the years. But it isn't any easier and that is why the behavior on the forums sometimes annoys them. As far as professional devs who work for a company like Samsung, they make between 50,000-100,000 a year.
As far as independent professional devs, Paper camera has sold over 1,000,000 apks at 2 dollars a pop, do the math.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Devs dont get 100% of their sales
Sent from my Epic™ 4G Touch
Here's where I learned my skills, this determines on what you're trying to develop. Most roms here, with the exception of source builds don't require much actual programming experience since they are closed source, primarily they have small tweaks like de-odexing, XML mods, etc.
Hands-On | 90% - 90% of my skills have come from hands-on experience and learning as I go along. For example, say I'm writing an app for the very first time. (Don't start with an app unless you've practiced with the platforms language first) As I went along on my first app I learned an incredible amount about android developing by reading developer.android.com and SO as I went along and came across something I wasn't sure about. Ditto kernel development, years ago I started with no knowledge and then bam I'm half a pro . Also, I knew nothing about ASP.NET/MVC/C# about a month ago, now it's kinda fluid to me.
School(Computer Science) | 8% - Yeah, it costs all that money for 8% or less. There can be some unique challenges in a software program, but almost everything you do in school is either so off the wall simple or has no real world application. I also think they spend too much time teaching by the syntax of the language, when really you should group them. Syntax is *mostly* trivial, it's better to group languages. Example: learn the Object Oriented Style (Perl, PHP, C++, Java, C#) which should give you a decent foundation in all those languages. Then learn the Procedure-Oriented Style (C, PHP, Perl, Cobol, BASIC (eww)). Then learn the rising in popularity Functional-Style (F#, SQL (mostly, this ones an exception since you often won't write many SQL scripts save for basic queries), Erlang, Haskell, C#). Notice: I listed some languages in multiple categories as the styles of programming are concepts, and some languages support either concept.
Co-Workers | 2% - Sometimes you learn by asking a co-worker or another developer. It's not how I did it primarily, but I know others who work best and learn best working in a team.
So to recap:
If you're trying to learn software programming itself I suggest starting with common scripting languages which are very easy to learn (HTML, XML (this will help for android), PHP). Then move on to some OOP languages (Java (Android*), C++). Then if you plan on working with kernel source code you should work with C and familiarize yourself with the procedure oriented style. Java is by far the easiest first language to learn OOP because of the wide-range of libraries available (to do almost anything) and the JRE, which gives you a nice garbage collector so you don't have the worry of memory management and freeing objects manually like you do in C/C++, etc.
If you just want to bake a rom with minor adjustments or a closed-source rom, I suggest you learn how to create themes first, as many of those concepts will help in baking a rom. And if you have questions this is a development community last time I checked, although sometimes it doesn't seem like it. So ask questions, ask other developers (I used to get questions ), ask on the board (if you follow the rules), ask on StackOverflow, etc. Don't be a nuisance to other developers though, I had someone that constantly blew up my phone nonstop all hours of the day asking silly silly questions. I don't mind questions, but i'd be spending time with my GF and my phone would explode with 20 questions that I already answered 20 times each
Also, some books may not be bad if you have absolutely no idea about programming whatsoever. But nowadays, you can find anything in a book on the internet. The benefits of a book is they include all their source code (usually) and can motivate you more since they give you projects and challenges. I had one Java book, and it drove me crazy because nothing was standardized. Instead of using the Java HashMap methods, or the Java Stack methods they wrote their own APIs for everything it drove me crazy :O
bbedward said:
Here's where I learned my skills, this determines on what you're trying to develop. Most roms here, with the exception of source builds don't require much actual programming experience since they are closed source, primarily they have small tweaks like de-odexing, XML mods, etc.
Hands-On | 90% - 90% of my skills have come from hands-on experience and learning as I go along. For example, say I'm writing an app for the very first time. (Don't start with an app unless you've practiced with the platforms language first) As I went along on my first app I learned an incredible amount about android developing by reading developer.android.com and SO as I went along and came across something I wasn't sure about. Ditto kernel development, years ago I started with no knowledge and then bam I'm half a pro . Also, I knew nothing about ASP.NET/MVC/C# about a month ago, now it's kinda fluid to me.
School(Computer Science) | 8% - Yeah, it costs all that money for 8% or less. There can be some unique challenges in a software program, but almost everything you do in school is either so off the wall simple or has no real world application. I also think they spend too much time teaching by the syntax of the language, when really you should group them. Syntax is *mostly* trivial, it's better to group languages. Example: learn the Object Oriented Style (Perl, PHP, C++, Java, C#) which should give you a decent foundation in all those languages. Then learn the Procedure-Oriented Style (C, PHP, Perl, Cobol, BASIC (eww)). Then learn the rising in popularity Functional-Style (F#, SQL (mostly, this ones an exception since you often won't write many SQL scripts save for basic queries), Erlang, Haskell, C#). Notice: I listed some languages in multiple categories as the styles of programming are concepts, and some languages support either concept.
Co-Workers | 2% - Sometimes you learn by asking a co-worker or another developer. It's not how I did it primarily, but I know others who work best and learn best working in a team.
So to recap:
If you're trying to learn software programming itself I suggest starting with common scripting languages which are very easy to learn (HTML, XML (this will help for android), PHP). Then move on to some OOP languages (Java (Android*), C++). Then if you plan on working with kernel source code you should work with C and familiarize yourself with the procedure oriented style. Java is by far the easiest first language to learn OOP because of the wide-range of libraries available (to do almost anything) and the JRE, which gives you a nice garbage collector so you don't have the worry of memory management and freeing objects manually like you do in C/C++, etc.
If you just want to bake a rom with minor adjustments or a closed-source rom, I suggest you learn how to create themes first, as many of those concepts will help in baking a rom. And if you have questions this is a development community last time I checked, although sometimes it doesn't seem like it. So ask questions, ask other developers (I used to get questions ), ask on the board (if you follow the rules), ask on StackOverflow, etc. Don't be a nuisance to other developers though, I had someone that constantly blew up my phone nonstop all hours of the day asking silly silly questions. I don't mind questions, but i'd be spending time with my GF and my phone would explode with 20 questions that I already answered 20 times each
Also, some books may not be bad if you have absolutely no idea about programming whatsoever. But nowadays, you can find anything in a book on the internet. The benefits of a book is they include all their source code (usually) and can motivate you more since they give you projects and challenges. I had one Java book, and it drove me crazy because nothing was standardized. Instead of using the Java HashMap methods, or the Java Stack methods they wrote their own APIs for everything it drove me crazy :O
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My school must have a great compsci program because they focus on good programming styles and not syntax. There is no reason to start with any language besides java if your goal is to develop Android. And while I agree with your learning as you go approach, it would be a mistake and overwhelming imo for someone to jump into Android development without having a basic understanding of Linux, java, and Android. My advice given was for helping op to become an Android dev, not someone who posts roms. They are not always the same thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
bbedward said:
Here's where I learned my skills, this determines on what you're trying to develop. Most roms here, with the exception of source builds don't require much actual programming experience since they are closed source, primarily they have small tweaks like de-odexing, XML mods, etc.
Hands-On | 90% - 90% of my skills have come from hands-on experience and learning as I go along. For example, say I'm writing an app for the very first time. (Don't start with an app unless you've practiced with the platforms language first) As I went along on my first app I learned an incredible amount about android developing by reading developer.android.com and SO as I went along and came across something I wasn't sure about. Ditto kernel development, years ago I started with no knowledge and then bam I'm half a pro . Also, I knew nothing about ASP.NET/MVC/C# about a month ago, now it's kinda fluid to me.
School(Computer Science) | 8% - Yeah, it costs all that money for 8% or less. There can be some unique challenges in a software program, but almost everything you do in school is either so off the wall simple or has no real world application. I also think they spend too much time teaching by the syntax of the language, when really you should group them. Syntax is *mostly* trivial, it's better to group languages. Example: learn the Object Oriented Style (Perl, PHP, C++, Java, C#) which should give you a decent foundation in all those languages. Then learn the Procedure-Oriented Style (C, PHP, Perl, Cobol, BASIC (eww)). Then learn the rising in popularity Functional-Style (F#, SQL (mostly, this ones an exception since you often won't write many SQL scripts save for basic queries), Erlang, Haskell, C#). Notice: I listed some languages in multiple categories as the styles of programming are concepts, and some languages support either concept.
Co-Workers | 2% - Sometimes you learn by asking a co-worker or another developer. It's not how I did it primarily, but I know others who work best and learn best working in a team.
So to recap:
If you're trying to learn software programming itself I suggest starting with common scripting languages which are very easy to learn (HTML, XML (this will help for android), PHP). Then move on to some OOP languages (Java (Android*), C++). Then if you plan on working with kernel source code you should work with C and familiarize yourself with the procedure oriented style. Java is by far the easiest first language to learn OOP because of the wide-range of libraries available (to do almost anything) and the JRE, which gives you a nice garbage collector so you don't have the worry of memory management and freeing objects manually like you do in C/C++, etc.
If you just want to bake a rom with minor adjustments or a closed-source rom, I suggest you learn how to create themes first, as many of those concepts will help in baking a rom. And if you have questions this is a development community last time I checked, although sometimes it doesn't seem like it. So ask questions, ask other developers (I used to get questions ), ask on the board (if you follow the rules), ask on StackOverflow, etc. Don't be a nuisance to other developers though, I had someone that constantly blew up my phone nonstop all hours of the day asking silly silly questions. I don't mind questions, but i'd be spending time with my GF and my phone would explode with 20 questions that I already answered 20 times each
Also, some books may not be bad if you have absolutely no idea about programming whatsoever. But nowadays, you can find anything in a book on the internet. The benefits of a book is they include all their source code (usually) and can motivate you more since they give you projects and challenges. I had one Java book, and it drove me crazy because nothing was standardized. Instead of using the Java HashMap methods, or the Java Stack methods they wrote their own APIs for everything it drove me crazy :O
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is great info thank you. I have linux experience and I have made a couple of hello world apps but nothing extensive. It looks like maybe i should start with a little theming or something like that. I know html and can read through XML. I think i will try and find some Java tutorials or books to get me going there. Know of any guides on theme's?
kingsway8605 said:
My school must have a great compsci program because they focus on good programming styles and not syntax. There is no reason to start with any language besides java if your goal is to develop Android. And while I agree with your learning as you go approach, it would be a mistake and overwhelming imo for someone to jump into Android development without having a basic understanding of Linux, java, and Android. My advice given was for helping op to become an Android dev, not someone who posts roms. They are not always the same thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My schools good too I'm not saying its all syntax but its a lot of write your code readable in the professors style. I've learned more in 3 months on the job than 2 years of school. I've learned way more from self teaching tho.
And for app development Linux knowledge isn't really necessary since you can develop android apps on any platform, but Java and OOP styles is necessary knowledge.
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bdpatch said:
This is great info thank you. I have linux experience and I have made a couple of hello world apps but nothing extensive. It looks like maybe i should start with a little theming or something like that. I know html and can read through XML. I think i will try and find some Java tutorials or books to get me going there. Know of any guides on theme's?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you should start with greatly varies with what you want to develop
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bdpatch said:
I was wondering what resources are out there to become a DEV and make my own ROM's. I have googled it a little bit and not really found anything worth while so far. I did run across a good book but its not going to be published for another 2 months. Does anyone know of any tutorials? Books? How to guides?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read and follow this information from Cyanogen himself
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=667298
jerdog said:
Read and follow this information from Cyanogen himself
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=667298
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the link. I got lots of stuff to start reading through now. I also found this book: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/xda...7854?ean=9781119951384&itm=1&usri=android+rom
It should hopefully be a good one as well when its published.
bdpatch said:
Thank you for the link. I got lots of stuff to start reading through now. I also found this book: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/xda...7854?ean=9781119951384&itm=1&usri=android+rom
It should hopefully be a good one as well when its published.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be - I know the guys who've put it together.
This may be long, but this pretty much sums up the issue on dev vs dev, members vs members. This is created for people who has a keen understanding of rules, regulations, etc. Therefore people without enough reasoning, critical thinking, sorry this is not for you.
The 'Fair Use' Rule:
When Use of Copyrighted Material is Acceptable
In some situations, you may make limited use of another's copyrighted work without asking permission or infringing on the original copyright.
Fair use is the right to use a copyrighted work under certain conditions without permission of the copyright owner. The doctrine helps prevent a rigid application of copyright law that would stifle the very creativity the law is designed to foster. It allows one to use and build upon prior works in a manner that does not unfairly deprive prior copyright owners of the right to control and benefit from their works.
Some factors to know about "Fair Use":
There are five basic factors to keep in mind when deciding whether or not a particular use of an author's work is a fair use:
Factor 1: Are You Creating Something New or Just Copying?
(the purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes)
The purpose and character of your intended use of the material involved is the single most important factor in determining whether a use is a fair use. The question to ask here is whether you are merely copying someone else's work verbatim or instead using it to help create something new.
One important consideration is whether the use in question advances a socially beneficial activity like those listed in the statute: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. Other important considerations are whether the use is commercial or noncommercial and whether the use is “transformative.”
Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are profit making.
Ask yourself:
Is the copyrighted material published or unpublished?
(Unpublished works have traditionally been accorded stronger copyright protection than published works.)
If you publish your work here at xda-developers.com, your work may lean towards to the "fair use" clause.
Is the copyrighted material factual in nature or creative?
(More fair use latitude is accorded to factual works.)
Factual works eg. scripts, mods, etc.; Creative may incorporate themes, graphics, wallpapers, bootanimation, etc.
Is the copyrighted material readily available for purchase?
(The fact that a work is unavailable for purchase through normal channels will favor fair use copying for educational purposes, though this may be mitigated if permission to copy may readily be purchased.)
This won't be an issue since custom roms are not for sale nor it is on monetary pursuit.
Factor 2: Are Your Competing With the Source You're Copying From?
(the nature of the copyrighted work)
Without consent, you ordinarily cannot use another person's protected expression in a way that impairs (or even potentially impairs) the market for his or her work. In custom roms, there is no declaration of contest nor any criteria for the "best" rom.
Whether the work is published or unpublished, and how creative the work is, are the two main considerations. Unpublished works are accorded more protection than published ones, as the author has a strong right to determine whether and when his or her work will be made public.
When it comes to fair use, unpublished works are inherently different from published works. Publishing an author/developer's unpublished work before he or she has authorized it infringes upon the author's right to decide when and whether the work will be made public.
Works that are factual and less creative are more susceptible of fair use than imaginative and highly creative works eg. if you use chobits original themes/graphics/bootanimation,etc. may constitute to infringing, but personally I do not mind if someone use my work solely based on factor 1. This is in keeping with the general principle that copyright protects expression rather than ideas or facts.
Factor 3: Giving the Author Credit Doesn't Let You Off the Hook
Some people mistakenly believe that they can use any material as long as they properly give the author credit. Not true. Giving credit and fair use are completely separate concepts. Either you have the right to use another author's material under the fair use rule or you don't. The fact that you attribute the material to the other author doesn't change that.
Credits should be given to the original author of the modifactions eg. Lidroid 14 toggles, EDT tweaks, Spareparts (incorporated in settings), if the custom rom includes these tweaks, ask yourself:
Are these tweaks/mods originally made by the developer?
Does the original developer reserves the rights for these mods?
Is the developer of these modifications, explicitly made it for public use or doesnt mind if someone else port it to their projects?
Factor 4: The More You Take, the Less Fair Your Use Is Likely to Be
(the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole)
The more material you take, the less likely it is that your use will be a fair use. Contrary to what many people believe, there is no absolute word (scripts) limit on fair use. This is certainly a grey area for rom developers, since no one can dominantly own a sytemui.apk,framework-res.apk, etc. Developer's mod made on those files may constitute to "fair use" since Samsung, HTC, etc. do not mind modifying their base roms. Therefore modifications made on those files should be attributed if its factual or creative underlying factors 1-5.
Courts have taken both a quantitative and a qualitative approach in assessing the impact on the fair use analysis of the amount and substantiality of the portion used. What percentage of the original work has been used? There are no bright lines, but the higher the percentage, the more likely this factor is to weigh against fair use. If you use the systemui, framework, lidroid, phone of other roms it is definitely okay since the gravity of those files does not weigh out the rom's build entirely.
Ask yourself:
How much of the copyrighted work is being copied?
(did you start from fresh stock rom, deodexed it and then copy snippets of files from other roms?)
How long is the portion copied and what percentage of the work does it represent?
(The smaller the portion, the more likely the copying will qualify as fair use.)
Is the portion copied the “heart” of the work?
(Even a quantitatively small portion of a work may weigh against fair use if it is the most important or commercially valuable part of it.)
Is the amount copied limited to that which is necessary for the educational purpose to which it is being put?
(You should copy no more than is necessary for the educational/testing/sharing "without profit" purpose.)
Factor 5: Is there any adverse effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work?
The more important the material is to the original work, the less likely your use of it will be considered a fair use. Does copying spareparts modification, lidroid 14 toggles, etc. is "very" important for a rom's integrity/usableness? Will the rom still work without those modifications?
Use that adversely affects the market for the copyrighted work is less likely to be a fair use. This ties back to the first factor, and the question whether the putative fair use supplants or substitutes for the copyrighted work. Is there any market in Rom development? The answer is none. Developers may ask donations voluntarily, since it is not imposed, this is not a basis for any monetary gain nor their own solitary income generating project (most of them have real jobs too!) Therefore this will not constitute any harm in any market; monetarily and financially.
---
In determining whether your intended use of another author's protected work constitutes a fair use, the golden rule:
Take from someone else only what you wouldn't mind someone taking from you.
I respect all developer's for sharing their work, but please ask yourself these questions before lashing out to other members:
Is the modification I have made purely original? (not ported or a derivative of other's work)
Did I share my work in good faith, so that everyone may learn from it?
Am I too stringent of my rules that it affects the Android development community?
Did I even use original graphics/pictures in my rom that can be viewed as highly original and creative?
What really is my purpose on sharing my work here in xda-developers.com?
Being a developer, did I make SGY's community a happy and healthy environment for everyone?
Did I respond to criticisms in a professional and mature manner?
How is my relationship with other developers, taking into account that this is a forum where utmost respect to each other is very important?
Am I in here just for recognition and fame?
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These post has been made, just for educational purposes only.
You can check this link for in-depth view:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Good one. Should be stickied up for all those newbie rom devs to see.:thumbup:
Sent from heaven!
pretty strong words!
Good read. Completely agree this needs to be a sticky
Well compiled post just like your v2
yes good for new members.......
should be pinned/sticked
Guys tell me if I should do this or not. I have a rom and I want a png file from it.. i hope that doesnt come under copyright stuff..
hell_lock said:
Guys tell me if I should do this or not. I have a rom and I want a png file from it.. i hope that doesnt come under copyright stuff..
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I don't think it comes under copyright stuff...it's just an image...
Sent from heaven!
anasdcool71 said:
I don't think it comes under copyright stuff...it's just an image...
Sent from heaven!
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There are lot of mad people here... I always think twice before posting anything.
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TL,DR
This is a forum & each forum have their R&R,
Talking about copyright & fair use term, many developers also use Google.inc framework (Android) without permission to modify to their own preference ROM's.
Off topic & just an example : China copying Apple (IPhone) and did they get permission from Apple.inc? Yes or No?
So conclusion, each people here got their own style, imagination & wanted to make something better for user/consumer. If u share out your artwork, your design, your talent, surely got people want to surpassed it.
Just my 2cents. :angel:
Don't want to be a douche or anything but no one really gives a crap about copyright, unfortunately it's not only here but on the whole internet and always will be like that. No one respects other people's property especially when its 12yos and their "cool" sgy blogs.
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My friend has business and she modifies online photos to create children workbooks. She has been doing this for 15 yrs and for companies like oxford etc. But there has been no copyright issue till now
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leongboyz said:
TL,DR
This is a forum & each forum have their R&R,
Talking about copyright & fair use term, many developers also use Google.inc framework (Android) without permission to modify to their own preference ROM's.
Off topic & just an example : China copying Apple (IPhone) and did they get permission from Apple.inc? Yes or No?
So conclusion, each people here got their own style, imagination & wanted to make something better for user/consumer. If u share out your artwork, your design, your talent, surely got people want to surpassed it.
Just my 2cents. :angel:
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Click to collapse
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
maxsan20 said:
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
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They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
leongboyz said:
They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maxsan20 said:
its not about what others do outside it about XDA in XDA there are some rules & regulation & we have to follow them & who every copy the style they are do this to earn money & sell the item. but in XDA Dev. are making Rom for User free of cost if some1 want to use other Dev. material or work than give proper credit to original Dev. for exp. if i use Creed Rom & change it icons tweaks put some apps using script manager & uot kitchen & make it beautiful than its a theme work not the dev. but some are present it as thr own rom which is wrong & illegal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mitko said:
Don't want to be a douche or anything but no one really gives a crap about copyright, unfortunately it's not only here but on the whole internet and always will be like that. No one respects other people's property especially when its 12yos and their "cool" sgy blogs.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
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laws are made to maintain peace and order to the society
they should be respected and followed
the law is harsh but the law is the law and we can't do anything about it
android is an open source project and no one could sue you if you modify a rom (lol). however, in developer world we should remember that we have something else. ETHIC and RESPECT. our forum's regulation is made to make sure that we have good development atmosphere while maintain a good relationship among the members. everyone here comes from different country and different culture. we also have different personality and its becomes completely normal if we have different way on treating our works. some devs have several policy to protect his work while some other devs have no restiction or policy when he share his work to community. we can't argue about their policy. just look into positive side:
1. no imposter aka fake dev will dare to copy paste someone's work.
2. no fake dev also means all stuff developed here are really 'developed'. it will guarantee that we'll get only the best.
about the USR issue, creed already said that its ok as long as the rom is really developed. it will be different case if someone only copy paste his rom, add several app, change themes, then suddenly claim that rom as his work. that's stealing and its our community's greatest taboo.
leongboyz said:
They are following those R&R but when u shared out your design (custom ROM's)
surely got people will make it better then your creations.
Just my own opinion :
Creed ROM, some like it & some maybe not, for me i like what USR theming & MOD and Creed should be grateful that got people using his design ROM & make it more acceptable to user.
Well, talking about wrong & illegal, so copying/using Google.inc Android framework without permission from them is Right & Legal as what u describe above?
No hard feelings, Just sharing my thought & opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol creed should be grateful? If he wouldn't have made this rom then we would not be having such good status bar in USR. Evan should be grateful that pratyush created that rom. Sorry to say but I am on creed's side. He has alot of versions of that rom and each with huge number of downloads. He has the most succesful rom in sgy forum and thts becuz his roms have something awesome in it on every release. He is the pioneer of mods in sgy forum and his roms dont need any theming
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kurotsugi said:
android is an open source project and no one could sue you if you modify a rom (lol). however, in developer world we should remember that we have something else. ETHIC and RESPECT. our forum's regulation is made to make sure that we have good development atmosphere while maintain a good relationship among the members. everyone here comes from different country and different culture. we also have different personality and its becomes completely normal if we have different way on treating our works. some devs have several policy to protect his work while some other devs have no restiction or policy when he share his work to community. we can't argue about their policy. just look into positive side:
1. no imposter aka fake dev will dare to copy paste someone's work.
2. no fake dev also means all stuff developed here are really 'developed'. it will guarantee that we'll get only the best.
about the USR issue, creed already said that its ok as long as the rom is really developed. it will be different case if someone only copy paste his rom, add several app, change themes, then suddenly claim that rom as his work. that's stealing and its our community's greatest taboo.
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Click to collapse
That's sums up all & in my view still is not a stealing issue. Just copy, paste + added some MOD from an open source user projects
hell_lock said:
Lol creed should be grateful? If he wouldn't have made this rom then we would not be having such good status bar in USR. Evan should be grateful that pratyush created that rom. Sorry to say but I am on creed's side. He has alot of versions of that rom and each with huge number of downloads. He has the most succesful rom in sgy forum and thts becuz his roms have something awesome in it on every release. He is the pioneer of mods in sgy forum and his roms dont need any theming
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Maybe i should be grateful to u & others forum members that had user their brains, creativeness, guides & contribution on helping Creed to customize a new ROM.
I wanted to bring up a very important topic that seems to be brought up recently. There have been reports that people copy and steal other people's works. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. For one, android is open source and everyone can use it without asking permission. For another, if you are defending your case by saying that it takes hours and days to compile your Rom, then what about those people at HTC and Google who developed the original Roms? They spent years studying and developing Roms. Do you ask permission? You don't. In theory, you should all be banned and discontinued because you didn't ask permission from HTC or Google. Now stop acting like a bunch of Steve Jobs. And while you're at it try and Patent your Rom so other people can't use it. This is probably the reason Android Development will fall and iOS development will rise.
First in before the bashing starts
Sent from a dream.
So...this wasn't so much a "question" as much as a rant.
HTC and Google devs get recognition: they get paid, and they get the experience to put on their resume. Our devs don't. They work for free. For hours. The only recognition they get is here, from the very grateful leechers (of which I am one). I don't think it's too much to ask to just get recognized for that work. Most give permission IF ASKED. If I was in fact one of those devs, someone stealing would completely turn me off from developing. And then where would us leechers be? Cooks are nice and all, but without true devs we would all still be on stock.
This has nothing to do with open source law and everything to do with basic human interaction. This is not law school. This is not a courtroom. This is a place where the generous share with the many, and I hope it stays that way.
I would also like to point out, when people complain about "dev wars" they say that they only "hurt the community." I would guess that in many cases, "hurt the community" is a synonym for "I personally don't get to have my Frankenstein ROM." All the high and mighty lingo doesn't hide that simple fact.
Apologize for my ignorance but I do understand my point. I put it in the Q&A since it did have question on the topic title so I thought the mod would move this post to Q&A anyway. It isn't too much to ask for recognition but there have been some instances in other device thread where it literally becomes a crazy nuclear war with people banning threads if a small piece of code is implemented which is ridiculous especially when that code is not device exclusive or Rom exclusive (or pure coincidence). Thanks for the quick and clarifying and mature response.
Thankfully, I haven't seen that our devs are like that, or that our mods have stood for that kind of behavior. So let's just keep enjoying our lovely Ace ROMs.
Have a read about AOSP License
Basically, while Google prefers everything AOSP related to be open source, anyone implementing Android can choose whether they would like to make their source code publicly available or not.
This is also one reason why OEMs are required to provide the kernel source code to the public (the kernel is under GPL) but not the source code to their ROMs.
I am not a big fan of the current separation of Android Development vs Original Android Development. In my opinion we are doing a disservice to the community by splitting the development forums. As a developer, I am not concerned with the status of my own mods or roms. In fact I would rather put my work in the "Unoriginal" forum if only because that forum gets far more views than the other.
As a user of these very same forums, the very split of these two categories bothers me to the point that I find it a laborious task to keep up on new development for our devices. The separation serves to sew dissension among developers who see their hard work being labeled as unoriginal, and makes navigating the forums that much harder for the users.
Now, understand that I don't deny the issue of code plagiarism being a serious one. In fact I think that "kanging" code without credit or permission is a reprehensible act. But to blanket classify all work that was not compiled from source as unoriginal seems unujst. There is a lot of work that is put into modifications to the stock roms that is being labeled unoriginal if only indirectly.
It feels underhanded to me to class a developer's work as unoriginal even if it is simply by refusing to allow it an "Original" tag.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Fenny said:
I am not a big fan of the current separation of Android Development vs Original Android Development. In my opinion we are doing a disservice to the community by splitting the development forums. As a developer, I am not concerned with the status of my own mods or roms. In fact I would rather put my work in the "Unoriginal" forum if only because that forum gets far more views than the other.
As a user of these very same forums, the very split of these two categories bothers me to the point that I find it a laborious task to keep up on new development for our devices. The separation serves to sew dissension among developers who see their hard work being labeled as unoriginal, and makes navigating the forums that much harder for the users.
Now, understand that I don't deny the issue of code plagiarism being a serious one. In fact I think that "kanging" code without credit or permission is a reprehensible act. But to blanket classify all work that was not compiled from source as unoriginal seems unujst. There is a lot of work that is put into modifications to the stock roms that is being labeled unoriginal if only indirectly.
It feels underhanded to me to class a developer's work as unoriginal even if it is simply by refusing to allow it an "Original" tag.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
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I think you misunderstand the context of what is original development. And what is not.
Think of original as 'made from scratch'
Its not to make one guys work seem less worthy than anothers.
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janjannsen99 said:
I think you misunderstand the context of what is original development. And what is not.
Think of original as 'made from scratch'
Its not to make one guys work seem less worthy than anothers.
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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look at it as making spaghetti sauce. There are those made from scratch with fresh tomatoes, basil, garlic.....etc.
And those that come out of jar but then they are spiced up some more with added ingredients.
OP, you are the one that labeled Development as Unoriginal. It is still labeled Development on my browser.
Original Development is a way to give kudos to developers that are or will be our future ERDs building the code from scratch.
Exactly thus. You will note that it is only by comparison that the work done in the non-original forum called unoriginal. I think that it is the distinction that is detrimental.
I contend that it is often more difficult to reverse engineer and modify an application for which you do not have the source. To give kudos to someone who has ported AOSP from scratch to a device makes sense to me. But it does not make sense not to give kudos to someone who has taken a system application or service, and without any source code for it made a modification to the core functionality of the application or service. I contend that the latter is the more difficult task.
To be clear, I understand the intent of the separation; I am simply relating my perception of the effects of that separation.
I always looked at original dev. As aosp and kernel and reg. Dev as modified stock like sense or touch wiz. So if I am looking to rock a twiz ROM i go to dev and aosp under orig. Dev
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How about "Stock Android Development" to give the distinction, rather than unoriginal as an assumption. By the way, I do not make the connection to unoriginal as you do, I already see it as stock rom and generic modifications that apply to the overall device (such as gaining root, etc.), and Original as source-built. Even though sometimes they spill over, so I just look in two sub-forums, without judging the content by the forum name.
daveid said:
How about "Stock Android Development" to give the distinction, rather than unoriginal as an assumption. By the way, I do not make the connection to unoriginal as you do, I already see it as stock rom and generic modifications that apply to the overall device (such as gaining root, etc.), and Original as source-built. Even though sometimes they spill over, so I just look in two sub-forums, without judging the content by the forum name.
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How bout leaving what isnt broken fixed. The majority is fine with it. And thats that. Jeez
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