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Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Hey man, I can honestly say that I think this is complete bull! Haha. Why would they take away the boot loader?? Thats aa main trouble shoot tool in its self, and if this does happen. I highly doubt that it would stop root. We would be able to get past it.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Read the thread....even if they do get around it there will be back ups that will kill service to any rooted device. Idk if this is true but its interesting
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We have wayy too many smart devs to let this happen. I'm not worried
This is a rumor from ONE source. People have been getting all upset over this but until anything actually happens, it's just that. A rumor.
Besides, if Verizon is worried about people tethering for free, it would make more sense to charge for data on a tiered level like they're probably going to start doing anyway.
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
byrong, thank you!
byrong said:
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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donnyp1 said:
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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Click to collapse
I don't necesarilly believe it will happen but is it plausible? yes....You can't deny that major carriers and development teams have more knowledge, experience, and capability then ANY developer on xda. Look at the past. Apple actually brought out a lawsuit trying to keep people from jailbreaking devices. So while we may all sit around and laugh at the idea and while it is just a bunch of hear say at this point, it is definitely plausible. And i do agree that it may just be easier to do tiered data plans, but then that kind of screws over verizon's customers who actually pay for tether. So you can kind of understand why they wouldn't want to continue to move on that route. Both options are viable and neither of them appears to be any sort of threat right now. As stated above, right now it's just a bunch of threads linking back to other threads linking back to other threads. And I don't know how much there is to believe about it but none the less it definitely could happen.... But hopefully nothing will happen....I mean come on manufacturers hardly keep their devices up to date...2.3 has already been dropped on how many devices and we're still waiting for it. People are on to sense 3.0 and we still have 1.0 on our stock rom. If they decide to kill the independent dev community then they better start dropping crazy updates with extremely customizable roms. It just seems like too much work that would ultimately end in manufacturers and providers losing money. Sooo ya. probs not gonna happen
If people didnt abuse tether, it wouldnt be an issue. So much free wifi, i cant think of last time i tethered. I also actually pay for internet at hone, yet i know several who tether for home internet.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Verizon would be foolish to do this. People are attracted to their service due to the freedom of android...
elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a flame, it's just the truth... There really is not a whole lot to be concerned about. It's out of our control so whatever happens happens, we'll have to deal with it when it shows up, IF it shows up. But why be so concerned about it?
Having said that, as far as rooting goes, they SHOULD embrace developers and allow us to use our roms and stuff legally... but I think that there is stuff set in writing and signatures that are still in effect for the time being. I see them never allowing us to root, but compromising by letting us set our own defaults and not having to use their proprietary carrier BS eventually. Whatever we make our phones into (right now) creates a market, and where there's a market there's money. We'll either have the perfect phone or the option to make the perfect phone, just like we can buy the perfect PC or make the perfect PC. Well, at least as far as software goes.
I personally believe we'll ultimately get what we want to the point where rooting is useless as far as ordinary everyday users go. But right now we don't know what this whole smartphone craze is or what its gonna be when it finally plateaus, and neither do the manufacturers & carriers so they can't exactly crack whips on our backs for doing all of this yet.
Besides, the hackers that make these roms make the phones better. They turn us into brand and carrier loyalists. The Optimus, Galaxy S, Xperia, HTC & Droids all have followings for different reasons, and the developers are the most rabid and loyal of them all. They might not NEED us, but we're still pretty freaking important.
elixir911911 said:
Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Okay I'm going to be as nice as I can about this. It's not true. We've had so many threads about this the threads are starting to scare people. Please stop. I don't mean to be rude to you. There is not on piece of solid evidence and I've talked to soooo many people it's not even funny. Don't buy it.
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
ucluglee said:
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
+1 true
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
I have never put much weight behind peoples comments about the Android fragmentation but the Nexus just frustrates me. I have owned everything from an Iphone, WP7 and Android phones and while all have their good and bad points I am starting to see many more bad for Android. I have moved from a GSII to the Nexus mainly because of the new OS and because my provider offered it to me for free on my plan. The three main apps I used on my GSII do not work with the Nexus. One doesnt even show up in the Market and if sideloaded just crashes the other two while they install from the Market they just crash constantly. The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
I know there will be a lot of people who say that I should root or mod or install this or that but it just proves my point. Apple and Wp7 just wor fork the most part and despite their limitations usually work well. The Lumia series of WP7 handsets get released in a few weeks in Australia and I think I will be going back to WP7 the three apps I use daily are now available for it, it has awesome facebook integration and it looks sexy too. Everything I need or want in a phone right now.
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
codesplice said:
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well put.
I have yet to run into one of my apps that doesn't work in ICS.
It really sounds like the OP bought the wrong phone for themselves. See if you can return it.
?
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
I absolutely love my Galaxy Nexus. I just loaded on AOSP Kang Milestone 3 and it has literally every feature I had wanted since I bought the phone. I get great battery life, and the UI is so efficient. I wish there was a better camera, and I could go for a 3300mAh battery like the Droid Maxx, but it's still ****ing AMAZING the way it is.
bnathan said:
The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't want any facebook integration on my device so cheers to Google for getting rid of them.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you think that when Apple releases updates for iOS that it doesn't break stuff? The only difference is that developers sometimes get a longer period with the SDK for the new OS to try and fix issues compared to Android, but you really are naive if you think iOS or WP7 won't have broken apps when a new version is released.
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
bnathan said:
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And who is to blame for app incompatibility? Is Google supposed to stop developing the operating system why every **** and Jane with an application updates their apps to work? It's not Google's fault that developers and companies don't update their applications. You are also looking at probably one of the biggest changes in the Android OS since it started with Honeycomb/ICS, so some things have to be completely re-written which takes time.
There may be flaws with the platform, but there are flaws with everthing. At least with Android, then end user can fix them if they want to, good luck doing that on BB, WP7, or iOS. Also, just because you haven't had an issue with iOS doesn't mean there aren't problems with apps. Then again, I guess it doesn't take much to get your phone to play a fart sound...
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and it is a very good consumer level device. What more can you ask for?
bnathan said:
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the real world.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been covered multiple times.
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The Nexus is a developer tool.
2.Why would Google not want to boost their own products such as Google+? I'm sure if I had a beef with a certain person or company I wouldn't support their product either. Would you?
3. You're right about the iPhone apps. As long as the developer updates to optimize performance with the new iOS. That's a lot of the problems with the apps I used on my Captivate vs. using on my GNex.
If I recall correctly, the reasons Google gave for dropping Facebook support were more about Google's fundamental philosophy regarding the open and free exchange of information. Google lets your bring your information to their service, and you can then take your information away and put it elsewhere. Google was fine with you sharing information from your Google account to your Facebook account. Facebook is more one way - you can bring your information and contacts in, but you can't take that information anywhere else. You could import your information from Google into Facebook, but Facebook will not allow you to export Facebook information to Google. This is the reason Google stopped supporting facebook sync.
its amazing how defensive people get when you give opinion or coment about fault with something they own.
Fact remains (no matter what the reason) Google removed the facebook feature which only hurts the end user. If Apple or anyone else did this you would be all up in arms saying how much better Android is for being so open. HAHA
No matter how you look at it there is compatiblity issues between versions of Android which there arent any (apparently) to IOS or WP7 users. Example... Plants Vs Zombies. I have owned it on al three platforms and on IOS or WP7 I have never had an issue with it working as it should. On my Android phones its breaks between versions. On my Incredible S the zombies would walk off the screen on centain versions. It doesnt run at all on my Galaxy Nexus.
I accept that the average XDA user can fix his or her own issues with ANdroid but the users here are a VERY VERY small percentage of users and for the average user Android isnt as user friendly or stable as the other two.
Since you chose the ignore the same thing on iOS, and also the fact wp7 hasnt seen a major version update.
Go back to those devices, bye
Erm... thanks for your opinion, we're all entitled to one. Stick with your iPhone or WP7 device then mate.
Morale of the story here is that providers will try to sell you what they 'think' you need without asking you.
They don't always listen when they do ask and they certainly don't get it right 100% of the time.
Xda Premium on GSM Galaxy Nexus
I agree with pretty much all the comments made here about android.
This is the biggest change android has made to its OS since its birth so certain 3rd party apps will be broken until the developer of the app pulls his finger out and makes it comaptible again. This isnt googles fault.
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
Back to the point... Yes if you dont like the phone then dont cry about it, just sell it and buy a windows phone. Why come here complaining? What do you hope to gain?
Maybe you should have tested the phone and done some research before you upgraded.
The Facebook problem is entirely Facebook's fault.
Android provides an API to synchronize contacts. 3rd party apps can add metadata to those contacts (picture, phone number, email, status updates, etc...). These metadata are then available on your phone.
But Facebook thinks they own your data so instead of using the proper API, they do it in a way to prevent you from exporting that data. For example they don't want you to be able to have a list of your friend's emails or phone numbers through Facebook.
Remember the first time you used Facebook? There were options to find friends using a contact list (CSV, email provider, MSN, GMail contacts, etc...). This is exactly what Facebook wants to block from the competition and one of that platform is Android.
There's a reason the Facebook app on the market has 3.5 stars only. It's rarely updated, slow and full of bugs. And they don't seem to listen to users. All they do is copy others because they are paranoid about ending up like MySpace. Their latest copycat is "Facebook Messenger" which puts an icon right next to Google+ messenger with the name "Messenger" as well.
So instead of blaming Google who removed the "backdoor" Facebook used (adding fields to the contacts database directly and causing a mess if you removed the Facebook app then) write a complaint to Facebook. They'll happily ignore you because they don't care about what their users wants.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bnathan said:
...
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bye. I guess we'll survive without you. Or did I miss your groundbreaking contribution to the community?!
Every second somewhere, someone changes their phone. I hope not that many think they need to share their decision here. Have fun with your new phone.
zolah said:
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Jmurph3 said:
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
They wont do it because thats not what the phone is for and they wont help you if you mess it up. It is NOT a development tool.
P.S... I have never screwed up a phone yet touch wood and ive flashed lots of my friends phones for them as well as my own...
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Multi touch bug is a complete killer. Really can't wait for 4.0.4 AOSP hopefully soon
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
virtualcertainty said:
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
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Click to collapse
Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
virtualcertainty said:
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yeah, but the things that annoy me are the bugs that are present in 4.0.2 and have been fixed in 4.0.4. And not only that, but also the API features of 4.0.3+ that was supposed to be the 'base' version of Android 4.0.
I don't mind how long major releases would take, but this is a small incremental update. I am just surprised that it takes so long to serve it to 'Google phone'.
kristovaher said:
Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Newer versions such as what? The latest aosp is 4.0.3 and not 4.0.4. It's quite obvious that 4.0.4 is not ready.
The Galaxy nexus is a Google supported device and is a nexus.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Well, if you look from it from the other side. Google might actually spare us from the still-bugged 4.0.3 version wich is AOSP. Also, JBQ already confirmed that the 4.0.4 version contained a "nasty bug" and wasn't ready for release.
If you look at it that way, new devices with 4.0.3 is still bugged in a way. And Google wants to keep those versions away from their current Nexus.
Just my way of being patient
Oddly enough, some of the tablets shown at MWC (on 4.0.3) had multi touch issues. This brings in a whole new strand of questions...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
In regards to the latest os .... can anyone tell me what phone has ics update already???? And I've said phone ohh and it has to be released now announced
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
martonikaj said:
I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I do. And people deserve to be given some perspective.
What do you mean? ~1% of Android devices have ICS. How is that not leading the way in terms of OS version when we're the only phone with it? Nothing has a higher OS (and don't say "omg the NS has 4.0.3!"). The Galaxy Nexus launched Android 4.
Why are you crying about not having 4.0.3/4.0.4 over 4.0.2. If its not ready, its not ready. That's why we don't have it officially yet. For all you know Google is holding off till 4.0.5, 4.0.6, or 4.1... no one knows.
Like your phone for what it is. You're like a dog chasing his tail when you get something great and always look for the next best thing. You'll spend your entire time with the device wanting more, and you'll never enjoy what you have.
Like I said in the other thread: OTA's will never come fast enough for people. If Google started pushing one every month (regardless of how what it did or didn't include/fix), it still wouldn't be fast enough because people would prefer it was 3 weeks instead, then 2 weeks, then 1 week, then nightlies. And guess what? Google isn't going to do nightly OTAs of ICS (not even close!). If you want nightlies, go build a ROM from CM source and change things for yourself. Or better yet, build straight from AOSP source and fix the bugs yourself. Make a thread for it and let people ***** at you for not fixing them faster.
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
PCHelper said:
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tend to agree with most of what you said.... Apple has this down to a T with releasing OS versions. Everyone with the previous 2 versions of the hardware is completely guaranteed to get the update the day that it comes out. Models 3 years ago may or may not get a full update, but they'll at least get a partial update (with some features pulled). You know what you're getting and you know when you're getting it. You'll never be in limbo. When Apple announces a new iOS version, they explicitly say which models will get it. The consistency is good.
WP7 is a bit better analogy of what Android has to strive for IMO. Android covers tons of carriers, devices, etc. but still needs to be able to handle pushing OTAs to everyone in a timely matter. This is a huge logistical hurdle for MS (or Google) to try jump. MS is handling it by putting very strict guidelines on what hardware can be used and what you can/can't do to the software (which is pretty much nothing). This makes the OTA process a 1000 times easier for MS to implement. What it leads to is basically knowing that the OTA update will work on all of these different devices because they're about 90% identical in hardware, and 99% identical in software. The only hurdle for them is pretty much getting carriers to accept the terms of pushing the OTA.
While Google could implement a system like this, it'd be at least a year out. Because in order for this MS-style system to work, Android would have to have specific hardware and software guidelines. The problem being that Android is open source and free, and manufacturers can really do whatever they want. They only have to follow some very relaxed "guidelines" to get GAPPS. Even if Google wanted to push OTAs to all of these phones in their current state they couldn't. Google doesn't hold the code from Samsung, HTC, LG, Huawei, and others because they're each doing it in house. There is no unifying OTA that can be pushed. Ultimately Google has no say in what happens after they certify it for GAPPS support. At that point, its between the manufacturers and carriers what is going to happen.
Google needs to start hitting manufacturers where they can, with GAPPS. Its the only closed-source part of Android and its a really really important one. They need to start forcing UI guidelines and skinning policies that let OTAs flow smoother. On the carrier side, they need to start pushing carriers to allow manufacturers to push them when its ready. Google can only do so much to carriers though. At that point they can threaten, but again its not up to Google what happens with those devices once the licenses go out. Its not a Google sale to the carrier, its a manufacturer sale. Until every phone Google sells is a Nexus, they won't be able to tell carriers what to do. Although the market share is huge for Android, it doesn't have the same unified push to bully carriers like Apple has.
....but I've got a couple other points as well on your post. You're making it sound like the Galaxy Nexus is running 4.0.2, and the rest of devices are running/being sold with 4.0.3 (the "stable" build). This is not the case. Whether its running the most "stable" build or not, the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone, and all of those phones being sold from this point w/ 4.0.3 will have skins attached as well.
martonikaj said:
the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
Evangelion01 said:
Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, the Nexus S update has yet to be pushed to everyone. Its still halted because of bugs (and the NS4G doesn't have it officially, either). Second, simply because it's 4.0.3 doesn't mean that it's "better" than 4.0.2 on the Galaxy Nexus. For all intents and purposes, it's the same update... look at the NS4G and NS on Gingerbread. One was on 2.3.5, the other on 2.3.7... doesn't mean one was better than the other, but simply the NS4G needed specific build # because its a different device.
If you're splitting hairs of 4.0.3 vs. 4.0.2 to try and win this argument, it's not going to work.
now here is where we can start the argument... 4.0.3 is better then 4.0.2 if only due to the codex hardware fix.
But that is not the question. The issue is it was officially released as latest stable, however only after official release somehow all of a sudden the official Google phones are full of bugs and it is not good for them. If it is not developed and tested on the official hardware, then why put the official stamp on everything? Where is Google QA? Why buy Google official devices if we cannot even get the minimum we expect from the name? Pay attention, I am not talking about vendor devices, only on official stamped device/software....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Couldn't have put it better myself. Google really needs to pull its **** together and give us some of that 4.0.4 goodness!
Thank god for unlockable bootloaders and XDA devs, huh. Oh, wait......
From my point of view (and mine only) I knew the nexus would have an unlockable boot loader, I knew there would be a root exploit before I even brought the device and I knew the devs here would provide better then Google themselves, that's why I personally, brought the phone. Fortunately you didn't choose HTC. The delays are longer and the devices more secure. What I'm trying to say is, make the most the the nexus and this community and get a custom ROM or makesure you choose devices in the future for the right reasons. Let's face it, very few of us brought it for the specs....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Hello to Canadian Galaxy Nexus owners. If, like me, you are angry at the lack of response from Google or Samsung as to when our yakjuux firmware phones are going to be updated, here's where to complain:
Competition Bureau of Canada (I'm too new to post a link, apparently, but you can google it.)
They have a toll free number in "Contact Us". You'll talk to a real person.
This agency is responsible for investigating claims of false advertising in Canada. I have lodged a complaint against both Google and Samsung over the false claims that the phone I bought was a "Pure Google Experience" phone which would receive operating system updates in a timely fashion due to lack of carrier or manufacturer customization. I suggest you do the same, as the more complaints on an issue they receive, the higher profile the problem becomes for them. I don't know if it will help, but if you would like to reference my file number (R608849), feel free.
Individually, Google has been ignoring us for months. Perhaps the Canadian Government will have better luck.
Enjoy,
Fox
considering google doesnt publish the update directly to yakjuux, you cant really be angry at google.
point the finger at samsung.
Just change your phone to yakju and you won't have to complain. I did that months ago and have always been happy. The process was easy and very well documented on this site.
My co-worker stayed on yakjuux until this week. I was always getting updates that he wasn't.
It is okay to complain if you know you will get positive results. But in this case, it will just be a waste of time because there is no legal definition of "timely".
Just flash the phone to yakju.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I don't really recall any concrete specific promises that would hold up as "false advertising", but it's been a while since I saw the ads so I don't really remember. The definitions of "timely updates" and "pure Google experience" are probably not set in stone and could be argued by either side for whatever strengthens their argument.
It sucks that yakjuux isn't getting updated, but I have a feeling most people on a developer-oriented site such as XDA would probably just spend a few minutes converting their phone to yakju/takju and be done with it rather than go on a crusade trying to get the government involved. Just saying...
I am fully aware that I can flash my phone to yakju, but I've had several friends buy this phone on my recommendation who won't do such a thing. They'll be stuck with the random reboots, low volume, etc, and I want to help them out too. Again, in this thread, people have repeated the line that Google doesn't publish the update for yakjuux phone, but I have yet to see a source from Google for that claim. The only official statement I've seen is Samsung claiming that it DOES come straight from Google. (Yes, I know that Samsung could be wrong/lying about this, but until I see an official word from Google that contradicts it, it's the only thing close to an official story I have.)
Anyway, it's the principle of the thing, now. I want them to give us what we were all led to believe we would get from this phone.
Not even 'could be' lying. ARE lying.
I think the problem here is with samsung, Google was not even aware of the regional variants when the phones started to roll out. Secondly, I don't think going to the BBB or any other method of escalation is going to do anything. The phones in Canada are not marketed as being updated by Google, nor is there any statement regarding the guaranteed updating of the phone.
Regardless of the marketing, the Nexus line of phones is not for novice phone users who want a seamless experience, for those people, i tend to recommend the Galaxy 2/3 line of phones and/or the iPhone as it suites their needs better.
End recommendation: if you can't be bothered to flash a rom, you should not have gotten a Nexus in the first place. If they still insist on getting the Nexus, it takes 1 minute to flash stock yakju to a phone, do it for them - or have them order it through the play store.
Edit: Just for you FoxHoleAtheist - I posted this a while back.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25535165&postcount=461
Matridom said:
I think the problem here is with samsung, Google was not even aware of the regional variants when the phones started to roll out. Secondly, I don't think going to the BBB or any other method of escalation is going to do anything. The phones in Canada are not marketed as being updated by Google, nor is there any statement regarding the guaranteed updating of the phone.
Regardless of the marketing, the Nexus line of phones is not for novice phone users who want a seamless experience, for those people, i tend to recommend the Galaxy 2/3 line of phones and/or the iPhone as it suites their needs better.
End recommendation: if you can't be bothered to flash a rom, you should not have gotten a Nexus in the first place. If they still insist on getting the Nexus, it takes 1 minute to flash stock yakju to a phone, do it for them - or have them order it through the play store.
Edit: Just for you FoxHoleAtheist - I posted this a while back.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25535165&postcount=461
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. The Nexus isn't intended as a developer's-only phone.. it's marketed to anyone and everyone who wants a pure google phone. Those regular users who buy them shouldn't be forced to A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
FoxholeAtheist said:
Again, in this thread, people have repeated the line that Google doesn't publish the update for yakjuux phone, but I have yet to see a source from Google for that claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From JBQ himself:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/android-building/kMhE-Orl5Kk
Can you quote the Samsung source saying the other variants do get updates from Google? (I'm not questioning you here at all, I just haven't seen that and would like to be fully informed on the topic). The Samsung updates are served from Google servers, but as far as I know Samsung prepares the update for Google to host.
FoxholeAtheist said:
A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though I can certainly understand less technical people not wanting to do it, or even knowing where to look for instructions, efrant has a great guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1626895 ... just in case you ever want to point someone to a proper howto.
and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if it actually voids the warranty. Even if it does, you can 100% restore the phone to the stock state so they can never tell. And to my knowledge back to the Nexus One days, no Nexus phone has ever been refused warranty if it was an actual hardware problem that wasn't caused by software.
Sorry, this is getting off the original topic... just wanted to provide some info.
If you are not willing to fix it yourself then file a complaint against Samsung.
Most people complain through the wrong channels or just don't complain because they don't know who will listen and can actually do anything about it.
Thanks for posting the info.
FoxholeAtheist said:
I completely disagree. The Nexus isn't intended as a developer's-only phone.. it's marketed to anyone and everyone who wants a pure google phone. Those regular users who buy them shouldn't be forced to A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it was a developers phone. I stated it was not for novices. this phone is on the bleeding edge of android, it's expected to have issues.
Ya I didn't wait or bother, I just unlocked and rooted and be done with being a slave to anyone when my phone gets updated. Never looked back.
FoxholeAtheist said:
Hello to Canadian Galaxy Nexus owners. If, like me, you are angry at the lack of response from Google or Samsung as to when our yakjuux firmware phones are going to be updated, here's where to complain:
Competition Bureau of Canada (I'm too new to post a link, apparently, but you can google it.)
They have a toll free number in "Contact Us". You'll talk to a real person.
This agency is responsible for investigating claims of false advertising in Canada. I have lodged a complaint against both Google and Samsung over the false claims that the phone I bought was a "Pure Google Experience" phone which would receive operating system updates in a timely fashion due to lack of carrier or manufacturer customization. I suggest you do the same, as the more complaints on an issue they receive, the higher profile the problem becomes for them. I don't know if it will help, but if you would like to reference my file number (R608849), feel free.
Individually, Google has been ignoring us for months. Perhaps the Canadian Government will have better luck.
Enjoy,
Fox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how you feel I have the Nexus S was suppose to get the 4.0 first after Gnex and that didn't happend. Just asking like that in a friendly way. But could Google or Samsung be mad at you cause you modified their device and their rom ?
I'm not pretty sure but I'm pretty sure somewhere there's a word or 2 about not modifying anything of Samsung or Google. Just saying don't want any problem or start a fight
Goes both ways I guess. No offense
Canadian here, but dont care. I'd rather flash my own firmwares.
Although I agree with you FoxholeAtheist, I don't think a forum like xda-developers is the right place to champion your cause, as most of the folks here will have the same response that speedyink just posted above. Maybe go to the Rogers/Bell/Telus forums and post it there. Just sayin'.
I could have swore that Google marketed the nexus line as a developer phone since its conception. I don't see you getting much support for your cause on a forum for developers. Most here have flashed their ROM and moved on.
They marketed the Nexus One as such, and never again. People just ASSumed. It is a consumer device with development abilities.
FoxholeAtheist;28719966If said:
You have no grounds to complain. Nobody is obligated to give time lines for updates. Doing so, and missing the date, means a huge backlash for the company... it's not the risk for them to do that.
As others have suggested. Just flash updates yourself. I'm Canadian and have been running Jellybean since it was first available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no right to complain, nor will the Competition Bureau do anything about it.
The Nexus is marketed as a Pure Google phone. This much you are correct about... However 4.0.2 ICS is still a "pure google experience". They never made any guarantees as to when you'd be receiving updates, if you receive them at all. This is all based on what you believe they should do, not what they told you they would do.
Beyond this, flashing to Yakju/Takju is as easy as pie if you follow efrants thread... you don't even have to flash the regional radio... you can keep it completely 100% stock "Pure Google/Updated by Google" experience like I did and be happy.
Your efforts in complaining will be fruitless. The competition bureau will not investigate this claim based on what you believe, they will look at what you were told, which was basically nothing.
Spoke with my lawyer. Says I have a case against samsung.
1.) Samsung faild to password protect update option
As my almost 2 year old managed to update me to 4.4 from JB 4.1.2. When I did not want 4.3 or 4.4 due to knox.
2.) The knox feature was not advertised when selling the note 2 and other phones sold prior to introducing knox to our phones.
I don't have the money to fork over legal expenses. So lawyer said if I can find more then 400 samsung users who are stuck with knox they would take the case.
If you wish to join reply to post. Once we reach 400 will contact you all with an for proper information.
Pls only use this to count yourself in. Add a comment if you wish when adding yourself but pls no chating. Will make it easy to count who's in this way.
I'm in
rogersb11 said:
I'm in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
droideastcoast said:
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo. Option is what it should be
Count on me
Throw me in the mix, can I go in twice? I have 2 notes dueces.
I'm in too.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
So am I.
Tap, tap says the wicked Note +₩● ?
Kind of sad that ppl are complaining about knox secure boot and trip but no one is willing to step up and take samsung to court?
Come on guys.
This could also be the answer to removing the secure boot.
If noone steps up then samsung will continue to do this kind of crap.
In bit my Knox is tripped
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
[email protected] said:
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Cryingmoose said:
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm In
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
KennyG123 said:
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
TerryMathews said:
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
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At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
If I'm not mistaken, the Federal government (USA) guaranteed end users the right to root access of our phones, and recently upheld that law. But does Knox really stop you from rooting it? Luckily I have avoided it because I haven't had a stock ROM for more than a few minutes on my phone since I bought it
KennyG123 said:
At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
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There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
Honestly... there's no point in arguing. Whomever goes and does this lawsuit, have fun, good luck, and I hope no money comes out of your own pocket. Your XDA soap box will get you nowhere so go out and do what you have to do to get your rocks off. Even if you even do succeed, enjoy the years of counter-suits and appeals.
TerryMathews said:
There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
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There is no further point in arguing with you as clearly you are not a lawyer either. No one mentioned popularity. Your arguments are misconstrued and have nothing to do with the focus of the lawsuit. You should reread the "opening statement" a 2 year old "accepted" the update meaning optional, not mandatory, and there are ways for anyone who can search to not accept the OTA or update.
Have a nice day and good luck. As I stated earlier, Knox is now moving to Google and the next version of Android and it also does not prevent rooting if you would just check out the other carriers. This is the main flaw in this law suit. Lawyered