Develop Bugs

Rumors, Lies, Truth and Sorcery: Gizmodo: Every Windows Phone Will Get Windows 8

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.

Lumia owner cheated and angry.

Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No

A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join

Won my lumia 900, and I planed to get an updated wp8 device anyway, so, to answer your question, no I don't feel cheated. I might be angry at myself anyway for buying one knowing dual core was coming in a few months (if I had signed a contract)

Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all. I imagine more is coming in 7.8 than they stated today. Joe Belfiore was very specific that they have MANY great things to talk about with consumer features, but that wasn't the point of the conference today.

I'll feel pretty cheated if the only features WP7.8 gets is the new start screen...

pgsxdjp said:
A little cheated. Glad MS tried with 7.8 but I'm just worried about how that will fare down the line with 22 months left on my contract. Don't think I'll be waiting to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im going to sell.

The technoweenie in me wants to buy a WP8 when it comes out, but the realistic human in me feels cheated...
I just bought the Lumia 900, and to hear that a new version of the OS is coming out soon and that the product I just bought will be un-supported and development ceased (for the most part) pisses me off...
I'm pissed off enough that I'm still waiting for a purple screen fix, and now this?

If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
Looks like the Lumia 900 is going to be the Galaxy S+ of the Windows world.
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
Not receiving updates seems to get normal in the mobile industry in some way.
This would be the point to switch to Android for me, but I'm not a big WP7 fan I have to admit.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA

land.apfel said:
If I were a Lumia owner I'd definitely feel cheated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? We don't even know the Windows Phone 7.8 features?
land.apfel said:
Thrown to the market and 2 months afterwards you got outdated software because the manufacturer never planned to provide updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We've received two manufacturer updates already. And there have been at least two announced future updates... Tango and Windows Phone 7.8.
dtboos said:
Considering all the features coming for WP8 and 7.8 haven't been announced yet, I don't feel cheated at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an interesting concept. So you think we should actually wait and see what updated features we will be getting before criticizing them? Great idea!
gbjohnson said:
Of the lumia 900 owners, how many of you feel cheated and angry over how Microsoft is handling WP8.
1. Yes
2. No
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once all Windows Phone 8 and 7.8 are out why don't you ask this question and add a poll to your thread? Make it a good poll with at least one option that says I'm satisfied.

There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.

at45 said:
There is still a chance that Nokia will provide WP8 on the Lumia 800/900 isn't there? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet.
Before anyone starts ranting about the announcement, Nokia is not Microsoft. Stop, think. Avoid replying anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about the Hardware requirements. I haven't watched the keynote, but I don't think they've given a NFC requirement for all phones. Interesting thought. I guess it could happen. I don't think it will, although it would be nice, of course. Then again, maybe WP7.8 will be better than thought. Who knows?

I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
Ok so we may not get the true multi tasking and Skype running in the background - we don't actually know yet - but did you buy your phone only on the basis that you would definitely get that one day? Is your phone suddenly going to stop working the day WP8 comes out? Are app developers all suddenly going to abandon the installed base of users for a new OS that doesn't have one yet?

When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.

OndraSter said:
When I got my Lumia two weeks ago, I knew that there was Skype coming with "serious" integration and VoIP API for others. I also knew that Microsoft bought Skype so I was expecting it.
At least that the Lumia 800 was for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its always been said that skype couldnt work on WP7 due to the way the OS operates and while its not great im still happy they released some sort of app rather then not bother at all

sensboston said:
I believe it's a very good point for the class action against MS and AT&T. Just keep googling for that and be ready to join
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't be serious?!

Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.

bmstrong said:
Zero. Give thanks that you get 7.8. Try to image Android users still stuck on Froyo or Gingerbread. Or 3GS or iPhone 4 users moving to iOS6.
Get over it and move to the future. 8 looks to be a fantastic competitor to iOS and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is different. The Lumia is a flagship that just came out. I'm amazed at how some of you are okay with this.
"Get over it and move to the future."?
Wtf man, what about all the people who got this on contract? You expect them to just "move to the future" and buy a new device off contract this early on?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

LOL... I think Nokia gonna do something to help out the customer who did bought the Lumia product recently... I got what you mean...
Da, it sucks to register for a device for 2 years and then stuck with it (that is why i never sign the damn contract). But i believe Windows Phone 7.8 is actually Windows Phone 8 BUT without all the functions that require the physical hardware to handle.
Time will tell. Personally, i don't feel any lost, i changed phone almost every holiday season of the year. 2010 = First Windows Phone (HD7), 2011 = Mango Windows Phone (Eternity) , 2012 = Windows Phone 8. I am curious about what HTC has to offer for us.

redwhiteandblue said:
I don't understand what it is people think they will be missing. WP8 brings support for dual core, high def screens, and NFC hardware. Does your phone have any of that? No. So you wouldn't be able to enjoy those features anyway even if WP8 did run on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you may have just described Microsoft's reason for not updating existing phones i.e. not because they are too old or too slow but because they won't benefit enough from the new features to justify the investment.
"Microsoft’s Greg Sullivan revealed the reasons behind the company’s choice not to offer a direct upgrade from Windows Phone 7.x to Windows Phone 8.
Describing some of the latest hardware changes in Windows Phone 8, that we outline here, Sullivan explained that "the nature of the investment [in Windows Phone 8] is primarily in areas that are not exploitable by existing hardware." Windows Phone 8 introduces support for multi-core processors, amongst other things, so the "Lumia 900 getting support for using dual-core or NFC doesn't mean a lot," says Sullivan, "because it doesn't have the hardware to take advantage of that." Microsoft decided to focus its efforts on Windows Phone 8 to make it as good as it possibly could. "To do the work to bring all of those elements to a platform that can't exploit them wasn't necessarily the most efficient use of resource," explains Sullivan."
Source

Microsoft just stuffed me up Big Time

I really regret the day I switched to WP. What's up with all these platform instability since WM 6.5? Why do they keep on changing stuff that worries poor consumers. A lot of people really need to be sacked from MS for making stupid decisions.
I really don't care about the stupid looks they announced.....all I care about is being supported.
Microsoft has confirmed that WP8 apps WILL NOT RUN in WP7.x. How many developers do you really think are going to design for WP7 now? To tell y'all the truth, there will be no support for WP7.x when WP8 comes out. I need support for apps not stupid looks.
Currently we (WP7.x) users are still fighting and praying for apps to come out, now with the announcement of this, I guess all ideas will be dropped and shifted to WP8...WTF! Is this some sort of Marketing strategy or what? Why didn't they decide all this kernel change before releasing WP7? We would have all be able to upgrade peacefully. With this I really think they'll change the kernel again when WP9 comes out and the cycle continues again.....why Microsoft? Are you guys some college and high school dudes with no PhD holders amongst you? Thus accounting for the stupid decisions you make to hurt our feelings and steal our money. I don't buy phones cheap because phones here are not carrier based and on contract....they are all unbranded and expensive. When will I ever get a WP8 device? My current phone is less than 14months old and you really wanna make me buy an expensive phone again or still use my device like a Symbian phone? This is just stupid.
I now understand and know that using a WP7.x was really a beta test.
I'm really pissed and just gonna throw my Stupid WP away and even switch. What's up with all these stupid changes and instability with the platform

I was unaware a PhD was required to be capable of of making intelligent decisions. They had to make these changes to remain competitive, and the current hardware is incapable of supporting the majority of them. Chill out. If you weren't on a 3 year contract, this wouldn't be a problem now would it? It's just as much your fault as Microsoft's..
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

WP7.x apps WILL work on WP8 so why should developers stop developing at all for WP7.x when WP8 is still 6 months away?

What I see is, developers will try to make use of the multicore capabilities of WP8. With this, you can not develop an app for both WP8 and 7.x and they'll will probably be developing those new apps on a WP8 device later this year. You just can't develop a multicore app on WP7.x. The android boys now have something to laugh at....FRAGMENTATION....welcomed at last.
What happens after WP7.8 upgrade? NOTHING? DEAD END I guess. Your fresh Lumia 900 is obsolete now.

Get over it. Its progress that has to happen.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Kenzibit said:
What I see is, developers will try to make use of the multicore capabilities of WP8. With this, you can not develop an app for both WP8 and 7.x and they'll will probably be developing those new apps on a WP8 device later this year. You just can't develop a multicore app on WP7.x. The android boys now have something to laugh at....FRAGMENTATION....welcomed at last ;(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also
Kenzibit it seems you are using HTC HD7 released in 2010, October which will make it exactly 2 years to date till WP8 so I am not sure what you are complaining about....

Kenzibit said:
Microsoft has confirmed that WP8 apps WILL NOT RUN in WP7.x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
64GUNSHIP said:
It's just as much your fault as Microsoft's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely agree!!!
To everyone who is complaining, you guys bought your devices without any guarantee by AT&T, T-Mobile, Samsung, HTC, Nokia or Microsoft that these phones would be upgradable to WP8. You people knew that WP8 was being released this fall and a whole slew of new devices would be offered with better resolutions, nfc, NT kernel and native support yet you still went out and bought these devices. You have NO reason to be upset about this because it was entirely your decision to buy these devices before first knowing what would happen...
So stop whining, enjoy what you currently have and wait till you're eligible for an upgrade... if you want to switch, you can do that, too!

v_garg said:
Also
Kenzibit it seems you are using HTC HD7 released in 2010, October which will make it exactly 2 years to date till WP8 so I am not sure what you are complaining about....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.

crav4speed said:
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
Give me the source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Even if - all future ports between iOS, Android and now WP8 will be in native code. See the problem there?

I told y'all the cycle will repeat itself oneday...
Look what just came out:
"While current Windows Phones – even those that just launched this year – will be cut off with Windows Phone 7.8, future Windows Phone 8 devices will get at least 18 months of software updates. However, Apple has historically provided iOS updates for its various devices over a much longer timeframe – the iPhone 3GS, introduced back in 2009, will receive iOS 6 later this year, plus minor updates after that, which makes for over 40 months of updates. If the Windows Phone team sticks to its yearly release schedule, 18 months would mean only one major update plus six months of additional minor updates.
Right after 18 months, So called WP8 will be ****ed just like WP7.x now.
Read the cooments too.
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phon...s-of-over-the-air-updates-but-is-that-enough/

Kenzibit said:
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.
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It's been TWO YEARS!!! How much Starbucks are you drinking chief? If you put $20 a month in a jar you can afford a new phone. If you sell your current phone you will need even less money to get a new Windows 8 Phone. You cannot buy a phone and expect for it to get the new kernel update two years later. MSFT got screwed on Windows Mobile because it clung to it for too long. They could have done a reboot long before the iphone hit and they would have been in a perfect position... but they didn't. It is far better for them to do this reboot now along with their Surface and new desktop OS than keep clinging to Windows Phone 7.5.
Anyway you've been b-tching about Windows Phone for months. It just may be time for you to move on.

Kenzibit said:
crav4speed said:
That's not true. Only apps that use native code will not run on WP7.8!
Give me the source
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http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-8-slide-gallery/
Look at slides 28 and 29. There will still be app development in XAML/C#
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...hone-8-finally-gets-a-real-windows-core/12975
“New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices.”
The key words being "compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8".
The developers have choices in how to develop their apps. Only apps written in native code will not run on WP7.8. I think the majority of applications to be written in native code will mostly be games and VOIP apps. Do you really think Microsoft will completely abandon WP7.8??? Ok, it's possible but most likely in another 18-24 months when your HD7 is 5 years old!
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^ I bet you no one will be developing for WP7, it just doesnt make sense. WP8 will just be easier.
Its all cupcakes and strawberries when Apple does it, but Microsoft does it and its a problem?
The writing was on the wall on launch day, no one would believe me though. There was absolutely no multi core support from the beginning. This had to happen.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Grow up complainers. WP7 is still the best OS out there. 7.8 is just an added bonus. Do we really need NFC and dual cores? It runs well on single core. WVGA although not fantastic is perfectly fine for mobile screens. Not far a tablet but for mobile screens is fine. Microsoft can't be expected to magicialy upgrade your hardware specs over the air and will only provide only the features that current hardware can support. WP7 will not die when WP8 comes out. It will just be the 2nd best OS out there (WP8 being the 1st) ;-)

vetvito said:
^ I bet you no one will be developing for WP7, it just doesnt make sense. WP8 will just be easier.
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I honestly would not be surprised if Microsoft forced developers to use C# when developing apps and native code when developing games. They can't afford to piss off early WP7 adopters!
The SDK will ask you what type of app you are developing and if you choose "app", you need to use C# and if you choose "game", native code will be allowed. There are a number of ways to enforce this as well, an example being Marketplace Certification.

crav4speed said:
Kenzibit said:
http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-8-slide-gallery/
Look at slides 28 and 29. There will still be app development in XAML/C#
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...hone-8-finally-gets-a-real-windows-core/12975
“New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices.”
The key words being "compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8".
The developers have choices in how to develop their apps. Only apps written in native code will not run on WP7.8. I think the majority of applications to be written in native code will mostly be games and VOIP apps. Do you really think Microsoft will completely abandon WP7.8??? Ok, it's possible but most likely in another 18-24 months when your HD7 is 5 years old!
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Good, you have an intelligent point though.....but I'm still sad, drinking my 5th bear now...gotta go sleep.
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Kenzibit said:
The thing is my phone is not a contract phone so this 2 year thing ain't affecting me. I'm not a carrier based phone holder...bought my phone $500 back then and now they want me to buy a $1000 WP8 device? I'm broke already.
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I just picked up another HTC Trophy for $109 on ebay so I wouldn't have to renew the contract for the other line on my account. But not being able to afford a new phone if you're broke is more of a personal finance issue.

crav4speed said:
. They can't afford to piss off early WP7 adopters!
.
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Hmm, yes they can, and they did. Its not the first time they have done this.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

This thread is full of misinformation.
1. Windows phone 8 apps will NOT run on WP7.x
2. WP7.x apps will be automatically recompiled to run on WP8. They did this to claim they still have a 100,000 apps in their app store for WP8.
3. C++/XAML will be supported on WP8, to not break WP7.x apps on WP8.
4. WP8 apps will not, cannot be recompiled to WP7.x
5. WP7.x uses the CE Kernel!. It's a completely different kernel for WP8.
WP7.x is a deadend platform with deadend os. The only good thing is developers won't have to redo their existing apps, however all developers will start learning the new Windows RT API.
I don't see anyone bothering with xaml anymore, hence wp7.x apps will dry up fast. Everyone will be switching.

Damage control suggestions for Microsoft/Nokia in light of all this?

Although I understand why WP8 will not be compatible with existing devices, the bad PR is not exactly helping Microsoft/Nokia. The consolation prize of WP7.8 is not enough to dispel the Osborne Effect that is very likely to occur between now and the time WP8 devices are released.
So let's use this topic to suggest some damage control possibilities based on what's happening NOW, not what Microsoft coulda/shoulda/woulda done (there are plenty of other topics covering the latter).
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device. Depending on the trade-in amount, it may or may not stop the bleeding from the Osborne-inflicted wounds, though.
Any other suggestions?

killerb255 said:
I think Microsoft/Nokia/carriers should have a trade-in program: trade in a WP7 device for credit off of a new WP8 device.
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Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?

An expansion of the "Registered Enthusiasts" program that would give us carrier locked stock images of a stripped down WP8 build or a $100 credit from Microsoft upon request.

sitizenx said:
Why? They gave you a Lumia 900 or free. What more do you want?
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Aside from the word "you" in the second sentence, good point. Many people got the Lumia 900 for free with contract, so it's not like they're being totally shafted.
Other suggestions or rebuttals? Keep in mind that the PR is still bad, and people are not exactly thinking "well, I got a free phone, I should be grateful." They're thinking "OMG, M$ jus skrewd mez!"

Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.

I think trade in is the way forward. Based on IMEI they would know what phones were sold free, subsidized or full price. Pay the trade in value accordingly.
Sent from my Titan using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy

guilhermedsx said:
I think they should stop talking to us as if we're retarded. Just that. Come clean and say "we're not updating you to WP8 because we don't want to". Enough with the "kernel re-write" stuff, it doesn't make sense. It's like saying you can't run Windows 8 on a Windows XP PC with enough power to run it because it has a different kernel.
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A better analogy would be comparing Windows 9x (95/98/Millennium) with NT (2000/XP/Vista/7/8). Those have different kernels, but can run on the same x86 processors.
Either way, your point has merit. Windows RT is being written for ARM architecture...why not Windows Phone 8? One possibility could be that current hardware is just too dang slow, and we could have another early-gen Android-like situation, where single-core Android phones that aren't optimized (i.e.: rooted, Wi-Fi turned off, kill unused background apps, etc) run slow.
If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
AndyFZ1S said:
I am thinking along the lines of put as many goodies in the WP7.8 build and that way the consumers get a taste of the new OS and then go out and buy a new WP8, Not far from what's already in the pipeline I know but just exactly the way I would now treat this situation, Not everyone will be happy, But then again when is everyone ever happy
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Hopefully they release a complete list of updates to be put in Windows Phone 7.8, if for no other reason than to try and pacify the masses.
...of course this is assuming that the complete list consists of more than just the WP8 UI update...
vetvito said:
Look at the big picture.
The market share wasn't going to get any bigger in the next 3 to 5 months, especially with no new flash ship devices on the horizon.
With Windows 8 and this kernel, there will be a surge of developers. Tons of amazing apps, the market share will explode.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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True, but I wonder if Nokia can afford to wait that long...

The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.

If the problem is more of a political/financial one, rather than a technical one, then I'm sure the fine cooks here at XDA will eventually come up with a way to run a Windows Phone 8 ROM on existing hardware.
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Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
At least they are saying 'WP7 programs might have to have a 'minor' tweak' to run on 8... will give WP7 users some hope.
(I'm on the edge of getting a 900 (still running my tilt 2), but I'm not happy about some of the aps that I use on the t2 aren't available for WP7). The developers say 'they are looking into it'...
Tim

Nokia has done trade-ins before. I remember them doing it for at least the last 2 years.
At least this would be an option for those are complaining that they are stuck with the same phone for the remaining of their contract. Plus, it would help generate some momentum when the new devices are introduced. Microsoft is going to need to WP8 users right away and cannot wait multiple years to reach 2%. So give people who were loyal a discount when the phones are launched.
Microsoft, Nokia, and others could very well do nothing like when WP7 replaced Windows Mobile. We also know that there were large numbers of people who left permanently when this happened.

eeeelliott said:
The start screen isn't the only update in 7.8; its just the only one we KNOW about. Microsoft didn't completely release WP7.8 to the public because they aren't done with it. So don't jump to conclusions because you might just be happy with what's in the update.
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Actually, Microsoft have apparently said that WP7.8 is the start screen only. See links below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEB8CC228C5239441&v=fTNHgfy7lY8&feature=player_detailpage#t=5052s
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476

tim051 said:
The fact that none of the 6.x programs will work on 7 tells you that usoft is in it for the long haul (either that, or they made a SERIOUS miscalculation)! I know... it's a total re-vamp of the software.. had to do it... is 8 going to be as drastic of a change?
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No. WP7 programs will still work on WP8.
tim051 said:
Hoping that the current hardware will work on 8... but they could throw all the hardware under the bus... as we saw from 6.x to 7.
Other than us 'enthusiasts', does the casual phone user really care whether their 900 will work with WP8 (other than the availability - or lack therof - of apps)?
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Click to collapse
No.

Windows Phone 10 Roll back

Hey! Can I roll back my Windows 10 Mobile build 10586.11 to android app supported version? (Windows 10 Mobile build 10149 or above)
Thanks!

No

these members with only one post who asking non-stop about project Astoria should be banned automatically
buy android device if you want android apps.....

Buy a smartphone if you want apps. Windows Phone is still a dumb phone. My 8 year old Symbian has better apps.

w.bogdan said:
Buy a smartphone if you want apps. Windows Phone is still a dumb phone. My 8 year old Symbian has better apps.
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Comparing W10 Mobile with Symbian is just an insult.

MultiPDev said:
Comparing W10 Mobile with Symbian is just an insult.
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No, it's the truth. Can you record phone calls on your W10M smartphone? I can't, but the old Symbian phone still does.
Besides, Microsoft is busy building apps for Android rather than focusing on W10M. Today they launched an app just for Android:
Mimicker Alarm https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.mimickeralarm

w.bogdan said:
Can you record phone calls on your W10M smartphone? I can't, but the old Symbian phone still does.
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I can, very easily on L-950 But can you run "Tank Wars" or "Leo's Fortune" or "TeamViewer" or "Skype" or record 4K video or... on your outdated "grandmother-phone"?
I believe, you've chose wrong forum...

sensboston said:
I can, very easily on L-950 But can you run "Tank Wars" or "Leo's Fortune" or "TeamViewer" or "Skype" or record 4K video or... on your outdated "grandmother-phone"?
I believe, you've chose wrong forum...
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So I should buy the new L-950 insted of my outdated one year old windows phone?
Yeah, that's why I need a smartphone, for Angry birds and other dumb games...
Nokia 230 has Skype, Facebook and "you can download one free Gameloft game every month for a year. Titles include “Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood” and “Midnight Pool 3.”
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/11/25/welcome-the-new-nokia-230-and-nokia-230-dual-sim/

You litle ****er...

w.bogdan said:
So I should buy the new L-950 insted of my outdated one year old windows phone?
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I believe all you need to do is grow up, finish school & college, start making more money, be able to buy modern flagship phone for yourself and stop posting BS on the adult forums

sensboston said:
I believe all you need to do is grow up, finish school & college, start making more money, be able to buy modern flagship phone for yourself and stop posting BS on the adult forums
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[emoji3] If you only knew who are you talking to.

@w.bogdan, I can have an opinion based on your comments only. And what I've read: an owner of the cheap, very old Symbian phone just trolling on the newest Windows 10 Mobile OS forum. So, that kind of behavior is typical for children or teenagers only.

sensboston said:
@w.bogdan, I can have an opinion based on your comments only. And what I've read: an owner of the cheap, very old Symbian phone just trolling on the newest Windows 10 Mobile OS forum. So, that kind of behavior is typical for children or teenagers only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Testing W10M since 15-02-2015.
There are no teenagers using Symbian phones, that was one of the reason Symbian failed. It didn't have games for them, like Flappy Bird or Lunar Lander Touch
By the way, how is Lumia 950? Having problems with it ? "Claim: Australian carrier Telstra says Lumia 950 failed carrier testing"
http://wmpoweruser.com/claim-australian-carrier-telstra-says-lumia-950-failed-carrier-testing/

Lumia 950 is good; handset has some minor issues (for example, battery life could be better) but replaceable battery and back cover inspires some hope Windows 10 Mobile is working as it supposed to be, smooth & fast. Current release .29 also has some minor issues but (I believe so) MS is working on fixes. I switched from L-920 practically painless. And of course having a huge storage space on the microsd is a BIG plus for me (I like to keep all my photos, videos and lot of music on the phone).
So, if you thinking about switching to Win10Mo, you definitely need to buy L-950 or 950XL (depending of your palm size )
P.S. As for "Lunar Lander Touch" (it was a "entrance" app written in couple of hours): 6 years ago, on the WP7 platform, Microsoft required from developers to publish any app first before receiving developer status. By the way, you may check store for the publisher name "senssoft" (it's me), probably, you'll be a little surprised about some of my published games (and more are coming soon!)

sensboston said:
So, if you thinking about switching to Win10Mo, you definitely need to buy L-950 or 950XL (depending of your palm size )
By the way, you may check store for the publisher name "senssoft" (it's me), probably, you'll be a little surprised about some of my published games (and more are coming soon!)
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The only reason I got 735 and not 830 was the size. For me, a phone's screen should be smaller than 5 inches.
I know, I gave one of your apps five stars some time ago
Isn't it annoying that you don't have a developers page on Windows Store as on Android?https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=SensSoft (different person?)
Lucky for pages like this https://www.appannie.com/apps/windows-phone/publisher/senssoft/

Yes, it's a different person, not me. I've missed Android launch (same as iPhone).
BTW, Lumia 950 size isn't an issue (I also hate huge "fablets" or how that stuff called?), as I said above, my switch from L-920 was painless.

I'll go check it out. But I might wait for the Surface Phone
Seriously now, haven't developers asked for a return to the way of WP8 store? http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/publishers?publisherId=SeNSSoft You could promote your apps easier.