Related
Hello...
My question is simple. There was a big emulator push from like 2003-2006, but it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of talk about it anymore. FpseCe is the only thing that I can find that's very active.
FpseCe...
This is a wonderful playstation emulator. Since v0.10 was released, around Christmas, the compatibility went through the roof. v0.9.6 played 1 game (Front Mission 3) out of the 10-15 that I tried. Even at that, it crapped after about 4 hours due to some video chunk.
Now, of those same 10-15 games, only 2 don't work. The rest were able to get, at least, to the first save-game spot. Front Mission 3 was able to get past the video chunk, but it does crash fairly often. I just save more often then I would otherwise. As it's not a consistent crashing (like the aforementioned video), I can play it right over.
You can spend a few bucks and get save/load, whenever you want.
My omnia gives me about full-speed in 2d and about third-speed in 3d. My vogue was quarter-speed to third-speed all around.
Another nice thing is that the saves should be compatible with some other windows psx emulators. I haven't tried it, so I can only speculate.
PocketGBA...
This has been dead for years, but it is still the top gba emulator, that I know of. I was able to complete Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on my vogue. It would crash with certain parts, consistently, but I could transfer my save to VisualBoyAdvance and get past it. Then I would just resave and continue on my phone. It was about quarter-speed to half-speed on my vogue.
I would really like to see further development of this platform. If we can get full-speed with a psx, certainly we should be able to with gba.
Morphgear...
I thought this was going to be a pretty hot item, but it seems like it died out a few years ago, too. Given that it's module-based, I would have thought the people would keep pushing them out.
Nintendo Ds...
Now here's the big issue. Before people start saying that it could never happen, please remember the 200mh cpu from 5 years ago and people saying that you could never do something better when snes wasn't smooth. I think current hardware and screen resolution would be plenty for a good coder, yet I haven't heard of a single attempt.
There is a version of ubuntu that was being developed for the omnia (omnibuntu), but it has ceased. It was straight linux, no layered on top of winmo. It could be possible to load a linux-based nds emulator on top of that.
So, that's what I know about it. What do you guys know about it? Is there a plan on the horizon that isn't being actively discussed, or are things pretty stale in this area?
JJ
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation (you'd need to always carry 2 WinMo phones with you...).
NDS emulation is pretty unfeasable (even the emulator available for laptops/desktops are far from perfection... not to mention that they are extremelly heavy). No current pocket pc has the capabilities to emulate the NDS in a way that would actually be playable.
I'm currently more concerned about old-school console emulation.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
A free GBA emulator would be a great thing. A port of the gpSP would most likely be the best approach (as was done in the iPhone). The original gpSP was MIPS (PSP) but there are some arm implementations (like the ones for the GP2X and Wiz).
The GBA module and lack of emulators with decent onscreen controls is what made Morphgear thrive (but lets face the fact that the majority of the users are pirating those). Seems like Morphgear has gone open-source: sourceforge project page
I keep hoping that someone will eventually update those old emulator sources that still exist... Most of them just need oncreen controls and resolution related fixes (and by crossing source components between them this could be achieved).
Here are some websites that have pocket pc emulators:
- MorphGear: famous emulator GUI and framework (OSS)
- PocketSnes (OSS)
- PocketNester (OSS)
- ScummVM (OSS)
- n0p: genesis, snes and dosbox ports/mods (OSS)
- emu193:genesis, nes, snes, gb/gbc pots/mods (OSS)
- nyagosu homepage: list of ppc emulators and resources
- emulation9: list of ppc emulators and resources
- Zophar's Domain: list of ppc emulators and resources
Here is a big list of sources I compiled (most resources are from projects mentioned above).
frmariam said:
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FpseCe has great on-screen button support (I use left analog, l1/l2/r2/r1, start/select, and shapes). You can go anywhere from 3x4 to 6x7 (I think). Plus, it can have separate portrait buttons. I think it's what all other emulators should base on.
Also, with any emulator, that supports hardware buttons, you can use a bluetooth gamepad (Msi Bgp100, for instance).
The lack of a proper d-pad almost canned the omnia for me. I came from the htc vogue. The extra power of the omnia and fpsece's onscreen buttons made the decision. I miss the d-pad, but it's not a deal-breaker. Unfortunately, I can't do much with other emulators because of it.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PocketNester and n0p's PocketSnes have given me fine results on my vogue. It's possible that a 200mh TI chip wouldn't fare as well. The vogue is a 400mh qualcomm. My omnia is a 624mh marvell.
JJ
Is there actually ANY active emulator for ANY console except FpsCe?
I found that morphgear itself is active. I think last version was even released in 2010. But its emulation modules are from 2007, which makes it old junk. It sucks how can 67MHz DS have far greater gb emulator than 500+ MHz devices.
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i love models with HW keyboard. Its awesome to play old-school games on HW keyboard and looking friend how he can press only one button once on his omnia
P.S.: good idea for thread
@matejdro
An unfortunate truth... Every Windows Mobile emulation project (apart from FpseCE and ScummVM) is dead afaik...
I arrived too late to the scene... The Omnia is my first PDA (and at the time the options were it and the HTC Diamond... an easy choice). I don't like hw qwerty's very much because they are bulky (I don't quite need a keyboard but would have much appreciated a dpad).
@Fa310tx
The Vogue has a hw dpad. If you compare that with the lousy virtual mouse/dpad on the Omnia... I'm also on an Omnia and I can tell that using only the screen doesn't work.
Also these phones are (W)QVGA. Most of these old emulator simply won't work on (W)VGA or will have serious display problems.
The gsensor also doesn't feel right as an ultimate alternative (at least gpad wasn't that great to use with emulators). You need a precise directional control.
For the most recent devices I feel like the best alternative would be to playing in landscape placing the dpad on-screen and assigning the other major buttons to the few hw keys. I asked n0p some months ago to add something like this to his emulators but he said he wasn't interested.
The sources exist... But the WinMo platform isn't very popular and it has lost many great devs to the iPhone and Android scene... We need someone willing to give them a much needed update. I believe it would't take too much work or coding experience to make them usable again. Since I can't code all I can do is search and gather information and source (not enough... but better than nothing... at least the sources won't be lost).
Hmmm...
I hadn't considered turning the omnia the other direction. I'm a classic d-pad guy, so the phone should always be landscape right (d-pad on the left). It irritated me that the volume buttons were on the wrong side. I never thought to use, what should be, the d-pad button as an action button. Unfortunately, though, that only gives 3 and the psx has 4.
I, also, tried the motion sensor for movement. It worked, decently, in Front Mission 3, but I'd still rather use the on-screen analog stick.
The cool thing about FpseCe is that it saves the on-screen and hardware button configurations for each game. In Front Mission 3, I use the left analog stick for movement, but that doesn't work with some other games. I can save an on-screen d-pad for that.
JJ
This isn't just about FpseCe...
Don't forget about the buttons on the sides! For some of them long presses act as different keys (with that and a virtual dpad you have all the needed buttons... also most PS1 games didn't really need all the buttons).
Invisible virtual buttons could also be placed over the game screen (like n0p did in gens... it could coexist with the dpad since emulated multitouch can be done on resistive screens).
Pressing 2 buttons at the same time could act as another button... There are many alternatives.
The point is that such an interface would work well in new devices with most emulators (nes, snes, gb/gbc, gba, gg/sms, gen...).
I just read a desmume thread, that went way off-topic, but it did bring one point up...
Desmume emulates arm7 and arm9 cpus on an x86 system. If native code could be used, it would likely be a quick emulator (maybe it wouldn't be an emulator, then). But, basing something off desmume would be pointless.
JJ
It's not just about the achitecture or bus speed!
You need a lot more power to emulate than to run native code. Also most PPCs have arm6 cpus and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering. And all this has to be done while running the rest of the OS!
The GBA is also arm (and with lower specs) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
There's still too much to learn about DS emulation... Current emus are extremelly non-optimal and buggy. Desmume is the only open active OSS project and it's pretty slow even on high-end desktops. No sane person would waste their time porting a wip, heavy, buggy emu to an extremelly limited platform.
Regarding portable devices... Being mips and without a touchscreen even the PSP (with a 333mhz processor... but with the media engine) has a better chance of ever getting NDS emulation (which will also never happen even though there are some extremely slow POC builds of desmume)!
Just drop any hopes for NDS emulation... It won't happen for any of the current devices nor for the foreseeable future devices (if ever).
Oldschool console emulators ftw!
I agree with statements on the lack of functional buttons. I played a bit more old school games on my MDA with the directional pad than I ever do with my TP2. Now I'm used to sudoku, Hexic, Uno, and golf games made for PPC. I wish there was a better solution without using the key mapper
frmariam said:
Most PPCs are arm6 and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering.
The GBA is also arm (and with less resources) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is truely lame. Gba was introduced nearly 10 years ago and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. Snapdragon is just out and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. The new cpu is like 8-9x the speed, but still.
With that being said, the nds would still need emulating for the arm9 part.But I'm not giving up on it, just yet. I think a lot could change in the hardware scene in a year or two. Plus, historically, we should be getting something in the next couple of years. Psx had a working ppc emulator within 8 years. Gba had a working ppc emulator within 5 years. Even if we were generous, a proof of concept could be available in 2012. Of course, this is all speculation. I have no programming experience. I'm just looking, superficially.
I definitely think that a better-coded gba emulator really could be workable, though. I know I'd support it. I'm an FpseCe supporter.
JJ
You may have a POC nds emu by 2012 on a ppc... but even by then I doubt that Desmume will be mature enough on a desktop. Trying to get people involved in this is a waste of time and bogus at this point.
I know that getting a good GBA emu is more than possible. I really believe that it could be done if some experienced dev put in the time to make the necessary changes to one of the arm gpSP ports that are already out there. For what I read the gpSP core is fairly light and portable and with existing arm ports it would be even simpler (at least than porting the original mips version). But for what I read neither Exophase (original developer) nor Notaz (contributed to some arm ports) are interested.
But ultimatelly I fear that emulation in PPC will never really get anywhere unless the original projects start making the ports themselves like ScummVM did (rather than these fractured and often closed source ports that sporadically appear). The lack of hardware buttons in all (non-qwerty) new devices also makes the platform a somewhat poorer choice for emulation.
WinMo is a small platform and with ever decreing number of developers (even more so at coding C/C++). Maybe if WinMo 7 succeeds the platform will get new devs (but with all the new limitations imposed and the certain unreasonably high price of the new devices... I get the feeling that the majority of the elite around here will abandon the platform after 7 debuts).
That could be true, albeit unfortunate.
I didn't realize that gpsp was around. It looks pretty good.
I'm not sure what your reference to mature nds emulators on the desktop is, but I've had nothing but good with desmume and no$gba on my computer. Grant that I don't use them a lot (I've never played a whole game on it), but I don't recall any problems with the playing that I have done (Final Fantasy Tactics A2 and Disgaea).
JJ
i am in ppc emus since 2004-5.
i know every single emu that was made for ARM ppc.
this post WONT be nice, so beware.
actual situation has few reasons and it IS RELATED TO ACTUAL PDA world state, so READ SLOWLY:
-few years ago, there were devices named PDA.
some people realized that these devices are simply small computers DESPITE their makers DID NOT know that YET. so, fresh owners tried to make some GREAT apps, emus too.
-suddenly stupid HTC started to make money(wiping ALMOST EVERY single producent of mainstream PDAs) with their TRENDY feeble devices.
-"Developers" foras started to turn into HTC tube DESPITE of ridiculous trend turning PDAs with phone module into JUST phone. Effect: 2443789 skinners are getting donation, while good appmakers' posts are wanishing under pile of crap.
-some people just finished with goddamn WM just because of trend that is visible for few years: no buttons, feeble CPUs, ridiculous tende(a?)ncy to make JUST screen filled with HTC BS, not small computer. you know what - i was using 300 mhz xscale pxa263 PDA able to emulate everything but Amy, when i killed it with haret(Oo) someone GAVE me wizard. then i realized how death of pda looks like(2.6 times SLOWER cpu for 3x amount of cash - pure idea of htc). Actually people are stupidified with fockin opengl's HD screens whatever, where's pure power, i am asking.
-some people just lost their interest in programming(no time, family, maybe unemployment, personal stories, sources lost etc.). i remember when n0p lost his 2210 - he tried to ask for some donations, unsuccesful - effect - ZERO updates since.
-some people left wm for symbian(ok..) and...android(well, this is funny, go and look at emulators state for that platform, hhhehhhh).
-developing emulators for your crappy modern devices needs similar SKILLS as always, shame, that newbs are not that determined to make SOMETHING like people from first era of pdas.
BUT, guys - do not be sad, we have ANOTHER manila skin, and wm7 with 3 buttons on sight, soon.
sorry for my english, it is late i am tired, but i cannot stand what happened to pda world(there is no apps like emus that shows weakness of actual devices, this may be NOT clear for ya, anyway).
and newbs with HD2.
i just do not understand people anymore.
upd:
for curious: check actual ScummVM trunk build - lands of lore works.
upd 2: to OP - you may consider making review of PORTS(i recommend DUNGEON MASTER/csb port!), it is similar area to emus, i BET that 85% of newbs don't know how MANY ports are made since 2001.
well, some may lol at fact, that these may need at last....FOCKIN DPAD.
do they have such thing?
i doubt it.
no fun for ya, modern gadgeteers then, sorry ;p
go buy REAL pda from 2005 for 40$.
I've used Scumm for Sierra and LucasArts adventure games.
I don't care for first-person rpgs, though. With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Mentioning the dpad/button issue...
FpsceCe has the best implimentation of on-screen buttons that I've ever seen. My omnia (which has a suck-crap dpad) can play psx games with d-pad or analog stick. It really works, fenominally.
JJ
With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, i know that port, it's unfinished, shame...
FpsceCe has(...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rare case. They really did good job with 0.10. idd.
----
you know what funny is?
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
ah, btw teenagent works with latest scummvm's / teenagent DZIAŁA
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
info for readers: just to let you know: we have emulators of almost everything, from zx spectrum to neogeo here, for WM.
kudos for Poklik for refreshed version of atari xl emu(with ONSCREEN controls, it works even on NAVI's).
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My htc vogue had a very nice d-pad.
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Young would be subjective. I'm 32. I grew up with the original gameboy, so portable console games are my thing.
JJ
Hey guys, that PSX emulator, whose name escapes me, can run ISOs of NES and GB emulators (with the rest of the CD filled with roms) made for the playstation. Its sounds like it's a little trouble to set up, but it's certainly doable if you want some on-screen buttons to emulate those.
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Fa310tx said:
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gb/new emulators are very optimized, true(fullspeed w sound even on UNDERCLOCKED omap850).
but i wonder what if you do not have buttons...well, fpsece seems to be last resort option(and damn, rather for desperados).
gba...idd ,it seems theres noone that can make it for newer devices...
Young would be subjective. I'm 32.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh, same here...i feel old and gnarly..zzzz...
I actually kind of agree with the two posters, it really is an unrealistic idea, but it will eventually come true... I guess it's a bit early to speculate with only one vague article but a whole army of critics
XNA is good for MUCH more than "crappy Xbox live demos". XNA is used for lots of games on the XBL Arcade already. What makes you think that Sony is going to be able to do better on Android than Microsoft is on WP7? Xbox has easily the best dev tools around and that is brought over onto WP7. The only chance that Android's game dev capabilities could even come close to WP7 is if Sony creates a set of libraries, standards, and dev tools specifically for games. I highly doubt that will happen. Also, will Google even let them? It's been said that Google will be tightening the specs for Android 3 so it remains to be seen just how much. Every game will work on every WP7 phone. That will be a large base of potential customers. Any PSP-phone game would only work with that single device. Why would developers spend time and money targeting such a limited install base? Sony would be just another OEM for Android whereas Microsoft runs the show with WP7. And finally, there's been no announcements or even real leaks about a PSP phone. Who knows if it will ever happen? Also, this would be a reason to choose a PSP phone over WP7 phone but wouldn't apply to the rest of Android.
blaiz123 said:
while the guy next to you is playing Modern Warfare 2 on his SE Playstation phone in full 1080P HD and a true 3D experience[/url]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its very sad if you think that will happen, a phone cant handle that most ps3 & 360 games dont even run in 1080p natively & if a phone could the batter would last like 45 min & your phone would be very very hot not to mention the phone would need a super chip to be able to do that & that would raise the cost of the phone up greatly...anyway dont know why you bring up silverlight, all the major 3D & graphically intense games will be written in xna
not sure why i even responded to this, but good luck with your PlayStation phone that you think will have better graphics or games then a psp
Psp is a playstation portable, exactly. There is a playstation emulator for Android already out. So they will have the exact same games.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
vetvito said:
Psp is a playstation portable, exactly. There is a playstation emulator for Android already out. So they will have the exact same games.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emulation is generally more buggy than games coded for that platform.
Sony is going to make the same mistake here that they did on the console market. A big factor of why 360 pulled ahead of PS3 was that it was easier for developers to code for the xbox360 than it was to code for the PS3. Also developers could make a game in XNA and quickly port it to windows.
Making a game for wp7 now allows you to port that to 360 and PC quite easily. What does making a game for Android & iphone get you? It just gets you on one platform really. This is something Sony can't do and why wp7 really is a true gaming platform. While android and the iphone are very capable of running games they just don't have the tools that MS does.
As long as wp7 sells decently, I can't see bigger studios not getting behind wp7 in a big way. They should be able to crank out quality games wayyyy faster than the competition, since there are tons of professional game developers very accustomed to XNA.
First off 360 pulled ahead because of the gaming titles, i.e. Halo and the network xbox live.
Second, who on earth wants to play the same game on three different platforms? There is no market for this. Fun and exciting on a phone won't yield the same results on a PC or gaming system.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
blaiz123 said:
I actually kind of agree with the two posters, it really is an unrealistic idea, but it will eventually come true... I guess it's a bit early to speculate with only one vague article but a whole army of critics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Biggie....there are plenty of reasons to pick android over wp7, but i dont think gaming will ever be 1 of those reasons
No Biggie....there are plenty of reasons to pick android over wp7, but i dont think gaming will ever be 1 of those reasons
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true.
vetvito said:
First off 360 pulled ahead because of the gaming titles, i.e. Halo and the network xbox live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox live and Halo 1&2 were both on the regular xbox. However, it didn't really phase ps2 though, not to mention that PS had many exclusive titles as well. So what changed that the ps3, the industry leader, faulted to the upstart? The ease of development was in MS's corner. Cell architecture took a bigger learning curve. XNA was easy, and allowed for quick cross platform implementation.
vetvito said:
Second, who on earth wants to play the same game on three different platforms? There is no market for this. Fun and exciting on a phone won't yield the same results on a PC or gaming system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plants vs. Zombies (Casual Gaming in General), Adventure games like Monkey Island, Lots of current games on Xbox live arcade would suit touch experiences just fine. RPGs like Harvest, Carmack is porting a touch version of Rage to the iPhone, that's a multiplatform game. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Live sucked on the first xbox. Games did too. Although Halo did do well. PS2 dominated.
PS3 hurt itself price wise, it was just too expensive, but it stayed sold out. Sony couldn't keep up with the demand.
360 had a better price. Although MS lost money with each system sold.
Wii kicked both of their asses though!
Also I have never heard of any of those games, none.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
vetvito said:
Although MS lost money with each system sold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And so did Sony.
vetvito said:
Wii kicked both of their asses though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's a more casual thing than PS3 and XBox. It also is a fine second console. Few people would have both PS3 and XBox (some do), but Wii as a complement to a hardcore console is just fine.
Back to the PSP phone, I am skeptical about its future. It's done by Sony Ericsson who will want to have it as a differentiator against other Android phones just as against other OSes. They want to build it with specific hardware buttons, and the games developed for it will most probably not be as much fun or won't work at all on other phones. Even if they are developed with other phones in mind, it's not at all necessary that other phones will have similar quality hardware/high performance drivers to benefit from these games. And finally, Sony will most probably want to set a high price point for these games as they won't want to cannibalize their own product (even if such a decision would benefit them overall).
I can agree with your whole comment.
Especially the differentiate part.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using Tapatalk
I think there's a huge misinterpretation when talking about Android and Playstation. Android (for the most part) will not be getting legitimate PlayStation games, it's the other way around. Android is coming to the PSP.
lordcanti86 said:
I think there's a huge misinterpretation when talking about Android and Playstation. Android (for the most part) will not be getting legitimate PlayStation games, it's the other way around. Android is coming to the PSP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm hoping. The idea of an Android handset that runs "PSP" games really doesn't appeal to me. On the other hand, when the PSP Go came out I thought to myself "this would be a great device if it had a touch screen, a decent browser and maybe some apps". If Sony release a new PSP that runs Android with an XMB skin it'd be pretty awesome!
lordcanti86 said:
I think there's a huge misinterpretation when talking about Android and Playstation. Android (for the most part) will not be getting legitimate PlayStation games, it's the other way around. Android is coming to the PSP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be PSP Phone on Android.
vetvito said:
Live sucked on the first xbox. Games did too. Although Halo did do well. PS2 dominated.
PS3 hurt itself price wise, it was just too expensive, but it stayed sold out. Sony couldn't keep up with the demand.
360 had a better price. Although MS lost money with each system sold.
Wii kicked both of their asses though!
Also I have never heard of any of those games, none.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sir must have been living under a rock in the gaming world right now. At least on the PC side of things.
I do agree with him that their are many games that would be awesome to have multi platform capabilities. Plants Vs Zombies is my current crack and love playing it on my PC and Netbook as well as a 2G iPhone my buddy let me have since he got a 4. (no I do not use the iPhone for anything asside from PvZ actually lol). Monkey Island was a classic adventure game that is actually really good on WM6.5 with Scum emulator, and other Xbox Arcade titles like the little known "Greed Corp" would be epic on the phone since it is 3d, simple, quick (games last 15minutes MAX) and turn based so multiplayer would work.
Anyone think it's possible to make an emulator for order versions of WM like 6.5 or 6.0 for WP7? That would be sweet. There are so many apps that would be beneficial to us.
Okay, you'd have a couple of extra apps, but they'd be buggy, slow, and generally quite crap - just like the rest of the OS.
Surely you can hold out for them to be made for WP7, if only so that they're actually usable
and MS did also say they themselves wouldn't support it. WM6.5 is approximately 100MB as well, so I wonder how that would play in the apps space, considering we don't have access to native code at all.
GenkaiMade said:
Okay, you'd have a couple of extra apps, but they'd be buggy, slow, and generally quite crap - just like the rest of the OS.
Surely you can hold out for them to be made for WP7, if only so that they're actually usable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that with the amazingly fast processors in WP7 phones, they could easyly emulate the old WM6.5 phones. There are some apps wich will not likely ever get made for WP7 that would be sweet to have.
Why exactly would you want to? I mean what are you missing out on that much?
Remember, emulation wouldn't open up the door to apps like Call Recorders and that kind of thing as there would still be no access to that in the WP7 System.
its known to have a poor gpu so it really worries me that it was used to launch a platform which its main selling point will be gaming and xbox live integration. So people will expect to be blown away with games. Now, as far as the UI, its flawless when the OS is concerned but thats not a big deal since the graphical elements are not too taxing, but i saw the negative effects when playing need for speed undercover... it was really a step down when it came to smoothness and graphics IMO even when i remember it performing better in an 500mhz sprint palm pre...
am i missing something?? was it the effect of a dirty port from a ARM cpu made game?? or is this something to be mildly dissapointed about??
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Combination of all that. Dirty port, new platform, and restrictions.
Sidenote PSP phone is on a newer version, but nothing is confirmed.
There are no games that push that CPU so no one is worried. By the time such games come the people who care will be getting ready to buy a new phone anyways. Those people buy anything just cause the specs are better.
Look at how android fans rave about the hummingbird CPU on a platform with relatively poor games and no gourmet accellerated ui, etc......
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
IMO its just going to be like the iPhone. The iPhone 2nd gen can still run most games that the iP4 can... but just with longer load times and lower frame rates.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. ACreed is already on WP7 from the makers of Nova.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
mike21pr said:
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
I do not know if you remember this but before Qualcomm bought out the ATI mobile solutions division HTC had real trouble with the gfx card drivers due to laziness and licensing. This issue was present up until only the last few 6.5 devices that were made. Instantly this CPU/GPU was regarded as better but still not there yet (HD2). Qualcomms own presentations showed the chip running at much more potential.
Simply put. MS realised that HTC cant write drivers to save their lives,(homebrew projects were started by the community to save devices such as the X1 etc) so they wrote their own.
This might not be the best example but if you check videos of side by side comparisons (Nexus S vs Focus/Omnia 7) you will see that WP7 manages to be more fluid displaying websites then a Hummingbird Android combo.
I believe the chip hasn't been used to its full potential yet. If it will be fully utilized in a years time for lets say games... is debatable.
VonCrisp said:
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to that, I think a lot of performance depends on the software running on top of it. For example, everyone gets caught up in the powerhouse specs of Android--but maybe because Android is a custom version of Linux the software is 'heavier' and it requires a lot of power from the CPU. Meanwhile, WP7 software seems to be running much faster than Android on a slower CPU and that is most likely because Microsoft has done a fantastic job of keeping the OS optimized for the hardware and maybe even hardware accelerated (to use the CPU's full potential).
It's like viewing a picture with Photoshop versus viewing a picture with a default Photo Viewer. On a fast computer, the speed difference between opening either one is probably not a big deal. But on a slower computer, Photoshop will take longer to open than the Photo Viewer. Both programs are identical on both computers, but the Photo Viewer has less to load and was designed to open faster than Photoshop.
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
WP7 features the SnapDragon SoC AND an Adreno 200 GPU. The GPU is the one handling the animations and such while the CPU focuses on the rest. Now I'm not saying it's a speed monster, but it's more than enough.
@Above: Alot of Android phones are still plagued by choppiness, not by Android itself, but by the Skins OEMs put on it. Motorola is the notorious one. But consumers do not know and will blame android for it instead.
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who can't get around their phone fast? Android and RIM. Let's be realistic, in terms of GPU, both Oses are poor. I mean REALLY poor.
The load test is a bit difficult for a lot of reasons. Most of the wp7 devices uses microsd card and that has been KNOWN to attribute to slow loading, not as much as the cpu/gpu. Also is there an objective test that loads the same 3 games on the three smartphone platforms? It's no question apple would be first using flash based storage, it is meant to poll data at a faster rate than microsd card.
secondly, microsoft does have support for real time gaming and a few more details due to using CE7 core
Check more about that
http://wmpoweruser.com/wm7-is-ce7/
recently however, the news story has been verified that CE7 is underlying wp7 not CE6 with bits of CE7
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we saw real time gaming as early as next year on wp7 platform
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think snapdragon is terrible either. It's been underutilized but not terrible by any means. I also agree that a lot of the reasons there is horrid runtimes is because it is a fast port and the port isn't Optimized for wp7. Microsoft has done an unbelievable job for the porting process, but developers just stop there. There is no further optimization sadly and that is a shame
While I think a better processor would be ideal, I don't think its gonna be a problem for WP7. You see the thing about Android is that it REQUIRES all these specs that the fanboys rave over to run smoother. WP7 is already there. Android has a bigger footprint than WP7 and requires more power. This is the problem with android and gaming. I have Angry Birds on my phone, Moto Cliq, and it loads slowly and plays poorly. I deleted because I can't play a game a 2fps.
^ see what I mean you blame the OS because of your phone. That's not Androids fault, put those exact same Motorola Cliq specs in a WP7 device and you will have the same result.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Who said anything about microSD chips?
CE7 supports multiplayer gaming, WP7 itself doesn't. Right now at this very moment it is impossible to play a realtime multiplayer game on WP7. Its a pipe dream right now.
You can say potentially the January update will correct this, and I can say potentially WP7 will launch the next NASA mission.
Another thing why do you guys have to mention the fault of another OS but brush off the faults of WP7 as if its acceptable?
vetvito said:
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
says the resident wp7 hater...
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
nrfitchett4 said:
says the resident wp7 hater...
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I switched to WP7. I have a vibrant and while I LOVED the screen, I felt it was pointless because there was not enough great games out on android. N.O.V.A. dragon age, and asphalt were awesome and alot of fun but those had to be bought directly from the gameloft app store. Why is that? Becasue the android market / platform has terrible security. Developers don't want to spend a long time creating an awesome game and then have it pirated a couple hours later.
Overall I already have much better games on my WP7 device. All my friends with galaxy S series phones can't believe the games I have on it in terms of quality and quantity.
I don't get the big buzz about angry birds also, its simple and fun for a little bit, but don't you think its quite repetitive? I knew I never once pulled out my vibrant thinking "lets play angry birds" after I beat it the first time.
Android does have the best hardware for games (nothing even comes close) however, the apps just aren't there, so who is to blame? The OEMs or the OS? I'd say the OS.
The only thing that beats WP7 in the games department is the iPhone. This is only true because of how long it has been out and it has the biggest market share. As a developer you developer programs for the largest group of potential buyers. Android does not factor in because it has a culture of having free apps and "free" apps. The latter being the reason why top game developers stay away.
so far i havnt seen anything from the 1ghz snapdragon processor to make me thnk its great. yes the wp7 interface is fast and fluid but the games themselves do not run as fluidly as i would like. despite having a 1ghz processor like the iphone, wp7 games dont seem to be as smooth probably running at 25 fps while i phone games look like they are running closer to 60 fps. im waiting for ilmilo milo or what ever its called to confrim this as so far it looks liek the smoothest wp7 game. rocket riot is currently the smoothest ive seen on wp7.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bootup, scroll, loading of native programs...I think that's a bit hefty right there
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. link?
2. was the game loaded on nand or sd card? Do we need to go through this ad nauseum? Nand is faster than sd card there is no question about that. However, in general sd card loading is SLOW. Period
3. You also fail to take into account graphic detail. let's be realistic. Windows Phone 7 does look better, and is larger than android games. Heck the Acreed game looks antiquated on android...and that's on the best android device
OK OP question has been answered. Thread gone to opinionated bias people who don't like facts. Opinion after opinion. Where are the facts?
Dude said Android has only one game that they can play against IOS, shaking my head. Then another guy says scrolling is faster when I asked what can you do faster, is that your best answer? Shaking my head. After that he said ACreed looks antique on Android, when in fact its the exact same game. I give up because you guys are not willing to accept faults and facts.
Enjoy your fantasy world, and let the shameless name calling continue.
Hey guys
I love its design,but I know windows RT does not support X86 apps. This is my concern.Compared to app store, windows market sucks.I recently learnt that there is a way to root windows RT and make it launch x86 apps. Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
Alexsandra said:
Hey guys
I love its design,but I know windows RT does not support X86 apps. This is my concern.Compared to app store, windows market sucks.I recently learnt that there is a way to root windows RT and make it launch x86 apps. Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, this belongs in Surface General, not RT development. Secondly, there is a thread where you can see what apps have been tried, and how they worked (don't expect much at all right now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 also realize that development is ongoing. There is also a thread for native app ports: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
I personally recommend the Surface very much if you are a student (Office is preloaded) and don't NEED to run any desktop apps, like Photoshop. Go for it!
C-Lang said:
First of all, this belongs in Surface General, not RT development. Secondly, there is a thread where you can see what apps have been tried, and how they worked (don't expect much at all right now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 also realize that development is ongoing. There is also a thread for native app ports: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
I personally recommend the Surface very much if you are a student (Office is preloaded) and don't NEED to run any desktop apps, like Photoshop. Go for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I am not a student. I just want to try a new style stuff. I own a iPad2,but you know it doesn't work like a real laptop.
Alexsandra said:
Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Estimated x86 performance is about 0.1Ghz. Microsoft DOS era basically. So no, chrome and XBMC will not work via x86 emulation. Notepad or something along the lines of the original doom *may* work.
The jailbreak does not allow running of x86 programs. It allows running on 3rd party applications on the desktop of which just one is an x86 emulator.
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
x86 emulation on RT is awesome but your best bet is for people to release native ARM builds for applications and they will be far and few in between. If you dont want to wait for that then look at an intel atom powered tablet running full windows 8.
Surface
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Estimated x86 performance is about 0.1Ghz. Microsoft DOS era basically. So no, chrome and XBMC will not work via x86 emulation. Notepad or something along the lines of the original doom *may* work.
The jailbreak does not allow running of x86 programs. It allows running on 3rd party applications on the desktop of which just one is an x86 emulator.
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
x86 emulation on RT is awesome but your best bet is for people to release native ARM builds for applications and they will be far and few in between. If you dont want to wait for that then look at an intel atom powered tablet running full windows 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or go with a Surface Pro and you can have everything you want
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XBMC requires a number of libraries that only build with GCC.
forget about it
I have already given up RT device after I read your replies. It looks like that Surface pro is my best option,but it doesnt have slim body and long-lasting battery(compared to iPad,it sucks). I dont think of any atom device due to its poor performance. Hoping one day surface pro could be a amazing device that owns slim body and long-lasting battery and high performance.
Atom CPUs will generally perform similarly or slightly better than ARM ones (iPads, incidentally, use ARM, as does Windows RT). I believe there are benchmarks that you can use to compare the performance of different tablets, including the iPad and various Atom models, if performance is such a concern to you.
Alexsandra said:
I have already given up RT device after I read your replies. It looks like that Surface pro is my best option,but it doesnt have slim body and long-lasting battery(compared to iPad,it sucks). I dont think of any atom device due to its poor performance. Hoping one day surface pro could be a amazing device that owns slim body and long-lasting battery and high performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could definitely go with an atom device. They will have enough power for everyday tasks (unless you use something like PhotoShop). Also I've seen videos and benchmarks, and it boots faster, and runs at about equivalent speed as Windows RT. Good luck in your search! :fingers-crossed: Oh, and the best thing you could do is walk into a Microsoft store and try everything out! :good:
Even the cedar trail atoms seem pretty competitive performance wise with my 5 year old laptop (which does get the usual disk cleanups, defrags and removal of any bloat I find etc). Let alone the clover trails in these windows 8 tablets. Took my laptop round a mates to compare with his netbook, found that the cedar trail was universally slower which was obvious but by surprisingly negligible amounts. Minecraft had a 2fps difference, Visual studio for the same solution file took 0.2 seconds longer to compile, boot times were identical, time to load a 5000 character open office document (same one of course) in libre office was immeasurably different.
1.6ghz dual core with hyper threading and 2gb of RAM vs a 2ghz intel celeron single core without any hyperthreading and 3gb of RAM (well, Its registered in windows as not having hyperthreading, there isnt a bios option for it either). Both were of course using the normal intel integrated graphics.
Honestly, people say that the atom is slow, celeron must also be slow (which it probably is, mine is 5 years old and was hardly cutting edge at the time).
Personally I am looking at getting an intel atom powered device, unless someone manages to release an i5 device with a decent battery at a low price which they won't, besides, I dont need that boost in power. Everything that does need that much power I can do on my desktop.