Develop Bugs

Why is android so "meh" for games ;0(

ok its starting to annoy me now... but android has been around long enough and gotten a fairly large established user base that i cant see any excuse why our games are so CRAP compared to the iphone...
I refuse completly to buy an iphone.. in fact i point blank refuse to own any single apple product... i detest the level of control the force upon every one of there products... but as much as i try to argue the fact that my desire and android OS is superior to the iphone it falls flat on its face every time i see the games available for the iphone.... so what gives?
Is it that the hardware is so poor compared to the iphone it just cant cope with the games that work so well on the iphone? is it just that no one is making games
for android seriously yet?
I scan the market and see highly rated games like throttle coptor.. or abduction... i mean really? my 4-5 year old N95 had better gameplay !!!
I love my android in every other way ( not THAT way... god some peoples minds are in the sewer.. :0) ) but i just wish there were some decent games out there that could compete with the iphone ... i just dont know why!

Why bother arguing, who cares, you like your phone they like theirs. I bought a droid phone because it does what I want I could care less if it has ****ty games If I wanted to play good games on the move i'd by a DS or PSP.

If you take a look at Gameloft's games, you'll find they are pretty much close to their iPhone equivalents. Most of them are not available on the Market, but I like Dungeon Hunter and Nova.
The games market for Android is still fledgling, but expect it to improve dramatically over the next year.
Regards,
Dave

i was looking at a review on some of the gameloft titles ported from iphone.. and in pretty much every review it said the game was far inferior to the iphone... not so much graphicaly (although they did say they ran alot chopier on the desire) but the controls are meant to be awful... as for some reason the desire and other android devices cant cope half as well with multi touch controls?

the reason why is the apps sd issue.
iphones can use all of the 16/32 gb for app storage, android can only use the onboard RAM, which isnt bigger than 512mb usually. this limits the size of apps.
Up until now, developers have been hampered by the fact that every Android phone to date has had a relatively small amount of storage available for applications (a couple hundred megabytes as opposed to the iPhone’s many gigabytes). Apps are stored in the phone’s ROM rather than the phone’s removable (and cheaper) SD storage, which grants developers enhanced protection against having their apps pirated. But it’s also proven to be a handicap.
Many of the iPhone’s most popular applications are graphics intensive, rich games. But these games often require high quality visual assets to go with them. The iPhone handles these fine — you can download massive apps over Wi-Fi or through iTunes sync. On the other hand, while the newest Android phones are certainly capable of rendering high quality graphics, their ability to handle large apps is limited by the phone’s available storage. Yes, developers can choose to download their app’s assets to the SD card after the initial install, but this isn’t a good experience for the end user.
from now on, ie with Froyo and probably 3.0 gingerbread games can be stored on the sd card( apart from smoe kb files) this will encourage more game development.

bob dylan said:
the reason why is the apps sd issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not convinced this is totally accurate! Most of the better games just have a separate download which goes direct to SD card anyway.
Regards,
Dave

I find alot of people on xda (as good of a site this is) stuck in the past!
I mean "if i want to play good games i'll buy a ds?"
So you deem £400 plus for a device a good price for something you consider to be just a phone? I'm sorry but thats nuts!
Believe it or not the most fun to be had with a phone these days is not changing what the battery icon looks like.
And to the op games on android are picking up, this is somthing i've noticed in the short time i've been with android,
Nfs shift for example, DS? I think not!
It's even said to be better than the psp version.
Then we have Raging thunder 2, Monopoly classic HD, Lets golf, Hyper jump, Hungry shark, Anytime pool,
Hero of sparta, Backbreaker football, Sims 3 HD, Crush the castle, Nova,
Tiki towers and also out this month Reckless racing and Angry birds, all good games
And to round off my rant HTC packaged and sold the desire as many other manufactures do as a "Multimedia device"
And gaming takes more money as an industry today than music and Movies put together!
Put's on flame coat and hides! LOL a DS?

Chivalryyyy said:
i was looking at a review on some of the gameloft titles ported from iphone.. and in pretty much every review it said the game was far inferior to the iphone... not so much graphicaly (although they did say they ran alot chopier on the desire) but the controls are meant to be awful... as for some reason the desire and other android devices cant cope half as well with multi touch controls?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats because the desire dosent have multi touch, it only has dual touch, that ok when you need to say move a virtual joystick and press a button, but if you need to use 2 virtual joysticks or 2 x/y axis's the desire gets confused n f'ks up lol

better drivers .. better hardware.. for a PHONE this is very good... asphalt , super ko, talking tom etc... all very good graphics... but it is . at the end of the day ... a PHONE... until the they are fully converged... will have to stick to huge games on your sd card .

Chivalryyyy said:
ok its starting to annoy me now... but android has been around long enough and gotten a fairly large established user base that i cant see any excuse why our games are so CRAP compared to the iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not crap at all:
4 Android 3D Games Worth Buying
A Look at Android Gaming: Video Overview of the Top Games Google’s OS Has to Offer
Android may have some catching up to do, but it's catching up fast

The Nexus One and the Desire use a Synaptics ClearPad 2000 touch sensor. Later HTC phones (e.g. EVO and Incredible) are using better touch sensor (see here for more details), and I expect this to be continued in the Ace/Desire HD and newer models.
So, it's not "Android's" fault - it's the hardware. That being said, there is no reason why the game developers couldn't tweak the controls to better suit the Nexus Ones/Desires touch sensor - they just tend not to bother because many of the games are direct iPhone ports.
Regards,
Dave

why do WP7 games have poor performance???

I though that i would be getting some nice smooth games on the wp7 platform but so far they seem to be below par. they seem to handle 2d games reasonably well, but when it comes to 3d they seem to struggle...so far only rocket riot seems to be reasonably smooth....hope its just because wp7 is new and developers are just getting used to it????

Which 3D games run slowly?

They should be pretty smooth on any WP7 device.
Which phone and which games?

yeah I have heard about slow load times on some phones (SD card memory instead of NAND) but never heard of the game actually running slow.

I am disappointed too. I saw a video of Need 4 speed undercover for WP7. Graphics are very poor.
I thought WP7 would be at least equal or better than iPhone for games. But I have some doubts at this stage...

I've been fairly impressed by graphics in for example "The Harvest". Gameplay was smooth, graphics crisp and energetic. Definately much better than anything I've seen on an iPhone.

I'd chalk this up to growing pains. New Platform, Gen 1 releases that were made with beta software and hardware. Even though it's just XNA give developers to learn up from down and you'll start to see better performing and looking titles as they adjust to the platform and really get a hang of its limits and how to optimize their code for the platform.
Even though it's just 1 supported chipset for now, phones could have different snapdragon processors, a better SD card, etc.
I saw a video of 2 wp7 phones and the load time was significantly faster on another. The slower phone was on low batteries though, I haven't seen this test done with the same phones fully charged though. As an aside, does anyone know if wp7 has cpu throttling based on battery life?

Also if you are compairing EA games to others, well its EA. They make poor ports on almost all platforms besides the initial designed device or platform. In time it may inprove but for now I would not be supprised if the EA titles are still better on the iPhone than WP7 currently. Not saying other games don't have the same issue, but if I am right in guessing that its mostly EA games you are disapointed in, the well I am not supprised.

As a summary - poor game indicates poor coding/design.
Even in older HTC, e.g. HD, people were producing amazing quality games - e.g. xtrack.
i.e. most of these windows phone devices are capable of running fluid games - but the developers just arent interested ... or rather, werent.
Things have changed 100% with windows phone 7.

ive downloaded rocket riot which is quite smooth when playing. so no complaints there. maybe this is to do with the block style graphics? but other ive downloaded and are not smooth are Gylder earthworm jim, the harvest. twin blades. max and the magic marker. games should run at a minimum of 30fps. the iphone games look like the run at 60 fps. someone mentioned a point about Xtract, which i have running on the old 528mhz touch diamond 2 with MicroSD memory, not NAND and its still smoother that any wp7 game i have seen so far...... what does that mean??? that my 1ghz NAND memory omnia cant compete with my old touch diamond 2??? somethings not right..........

i agree, i had need for speed on my old 528mhz MicroSD mem touch diamond 2, and the wp7 version really dosnt look any smoother.

[Q] why dont WP7 games run as smooth as iphone games?

ive noticed that the wp7 games are not as smooth or as fluid as the wonderful WP7 metro interface. Their OK to be honest but are wp7 device not able to run games as smoothly as the interface runs. ( i know the interface is basic) but wondered if the wp7 handsets had rubbish gpu`s

the general aspects of the game should be just as smooth. loading of the app and between stages may be a little slower on HTC devices as they use microSD instead of NAND (which i believe iPhone uses as well).

Pretty much it is nand
Also the January update is supposed to bring faster application loading and smoother scrolling. I suppose that works well though no?
Sent from my Venue Pro using Board Express

I've found XNA based games run as fast as the games on iPhones. Silverlight is a bit hit and miss. Of course it all depends on the programming as well.

so is it down to poor programming or just that the gpu isnt capable?

Games written on silverlight won't run as fast as ones written on XNA.
I haven't encountered slow, or badly performing games.

davidebanks said:
so is it down to poor programming or just that the gpu isnt capable?
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Click to collapse
no its the memory storage type the OEM used. MircoSD vs NAND. NAND is much faster but more expensive so HTC cut down costs and used MicroSD over NAND. Bad choice but i still like my HD7.

im not ssaying the games are slow, its just that they are not running as smooth as iphone games and i wonder why this is?for example, the smoothest game ive seen on wp7 is probably glow air hockey, try it. you will notice that it runs as smooth as the wp7 interface itself, which suggest that this particular game is running close to 60 frames per second. however as you can see with this game, its not very detailed at all so no surprise that it runs smoothly. when you try a detailed 3d game say need for speed, assassins creed, max and magic marker etc. then the frame rate is about 25 frames per second. so the game does not run as smooth as iphone games. i dont think its the nand memory causing this as although the games load quicker on nand, the gameplay as still at the same speed and framerate..... so is it the wp7 gpu or poor programming?

davidebanks said:
im not ssaying the games are slow, its just that they are not running as smooth as iphone games and i wonder why this is?for example, the smoothest game ive seen on wp7 is probably glow air hockey, try it. you will notice that it runs as smooth as the wp7 interface itself, which suggest that this particular game is running close to 60 frames per second. however as you can see with this game, its not very detailed at all so no surprise that it runs smoothly. when you try a detailed 3d game say need for speed, assassins creed, max and magic marker etc. then the frame rate is about 25 frames per second. so the game does not run as smooth as iphone games. i dont think its the nand memory causing this as although the games load quicker on nand, the gameplay as still at the same speed and framerate..... so is it the wp7 gpu or poor programming?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you
1. read
or
2. read?
It's been said at least 3x in this thread why the games seem so slow. it's not the programming, its the microsd

yeah, i read both 1 and 2 and i dont believe that the NAND memory is causing the difference. i know nand memory makes the games load quicker see it demoed with need for speed using nand and microsd etc. but the actual gameplay it self is still running at about 25 frames per second. I own the Omnia 7 which of course has NAND memory and like i say, most 3d games are running at about 25 fps. im beginning to think the WP7 is not capable of playing good 3d games at around 60 fps like the iphone?

The GPU in the iPhone4 is better than the GPU in any existing WP7 phone. Also, iOS games are written in native code where WP7 games are written in managed code.
Those two differences are fairly large.

^ exactly , sandbox.

It has nothing to do with managed code. Some of it has to do with poor optimizing and some of it has to do with this being a young platform.
Both the platform and developers need some time to get things optimized and sorted out. As mentioned already the very first WP7 update will have performance improvements.

If it's a port, then it's most likely shoddy coding.
Games written from the ground up using XNA shouldn't be experiencing issues.

Ren13B said:
It has nothing to do with managed code. Some of it has to do with poor optimizing and some of it has to do with this being a young platform.
Both the platform and developers need some time to get things optimized and sorted out. As mentioned already the very first WP7 update will have performance improvements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you telling me that C#/XNA can keep up with native C++? I don't care how much optimization a developer can do, there is an inherent handicap.

PG2G said:
So are you telling me that C#/XNA can keep up with native C++? I don't care how much optimization a developer can do, there is an inherent handicap.
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Click to collapse
In many cases, you're wrong.
You take care of this during the design process. You can't code both native and managed the same way.
In the case of XNA, although you program in managed code, speed intensive operations that would be best run with native code still do use native code. The Xbox XDK is native code. DirectX is native code. XNA Game Studio is in native code. You just use C# to tell it what do to.
In the hands of a big company with huge resources, could they eek out more performance out of native code than managed code? Sure. But for most developers, they won't be pushing the limits of the hardware to that cutting edge. I'm not sure if there are any developers do that for mobile games.

i think PG2G explanation sounds the most reasonable. i suspect the iphone 4 does have a better gpu. im pretty sure we will see the fluidity difference between them when angry birds comes out on wp7. where on the iphone 4 its probably running around 60 fps but we will probably get maybe 30 if were lucky

in terms of the debate between .NET and native code and which runs faster, there are so many ways to measure it that it can sometimes be a bit silly. but from what i understand of it, both can be just as fast, depending on how the methods are written.
don't under-estimate .NET just because it's managed code, microsoft have spent over a decade optimising it and it has quite a lot of power built into it.
but yea, as said, it's a combination of factors from physical memory (microSD vs NAND), to programming patterns (how it's written and whether it's actually been optimised or just slapped together to work), to CPU/GPU (as said before, the first gen snapdragon was known not to be as good in GPU processing as other units).
Hopefully this answers your questions.

The performance of silverlight apps versus native OS apps is enough to make me question whether the managed code can even come close to native apps on this platform.

Lot of wacky responses here. I develop for WP7 and iOS. My WP7 phone is my personal phone. Hopefully those facts should show I'm not injecting bias.
It's a combination of things:
- the iOS device family's PowerVR GPUs are better than the Adreno 200 in all the current WP7 phones. Even the older iPhones and iPod Touches stack up very well, though they're helped by only having to render at roughly half the res as WP7/Nexus One/Droid Incredible/anything else using the same Adreno 200 GPU.
- WP7 games written in XNA are capped at 30fps. While not all mobile games are going to be able to reach 60fps, many can, especially on the iPhone 4, and there's a big difference in smoothness there.
- Developers who are not used to XNA / C# often fall foul of the garbage collector. This can really impact your performance, and I think you'll see some gradual improvements in the overall quality of WP7 XNA games as developers learn to avoid the pitfalls.
- Not as game-oriented, but some of the Silverlight controls don't feel as responsive as an equivalent iOS control, like scrolling views. They render fast enough, but there can be a slight lag in touch response.
The relatively weak GPU is the biggest factor here, by a mile. There's a bit of sample code on the MS site for rendering smokey particles, and even though the number of particles is low and you'd expect a rock-solid framerate, the performance on the phone is quite pathetic.
Re: the native vs managed discussion - the point is that under ideal conditions (i.e. we get better WP7 hardware) the speed gains from native code wouldn't really matter as long as the managed code is written properly, not for the majority of games.

WP7 Smoother than Dual Core Tegra2 Android Device...Proof

Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.

I don't understand how comparing propably really crappy and badly coded Motorola gallery to WP7 standard gallery proves anything.
I.e. pinch to zoom was already smooth on my G1 running stock 2.2.1 and stock 3D gallery. It's not Android's fault that Motorola can't code fluid zooming into such powerful device.
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.

krjcook said:
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual core CPU isn't going to make graphics any faster. It doesn't on desktop and it won't on mobile devices either. Dual CPU has benefits when multi-tasking and it also allows the GUI to run at its optimum speed while running other apps. If apps are optimized for dual-cores, they too will run more efficiently.
But simply having two CPUs doesn't mean everything is two-times faster. This video does prove that WP7 has better GUI coding.
raven_raven said:
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a valid point. iPhones have been smooth and responsive since day one with lesser capapble hardware than the competition. Plain and simple, Android suffers from the same inefficient GUI programming that plagued Windows Mobile. Even if you made the Android device's CPU 4 or 8 times faster, it still wouldn't beat WP7 or iPhone smoothness and responsiveness.

I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.

zukа said:
I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same thing that frustrated me about Windows Mobile and keeps me from going Android. I'm impressed by iPhone and WP7 speed and responsiveness. That is a great feature for any device to have.

I saw this video this morning and was like..."really"?

the gallery on my gingerbread ROM on my HD2 runs more fluidly than both the phones in that video. I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans. That's the thing with Android, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software, and skin versions that you run the risk of getting a device not fully optimized to utilize its hardware, but you also get choice and freedom for more options.
The iPhone 4 has a lower clock speed than any WP7 device and it runs much more smoothly and is more responsive in every aspect than any WP7 phone, by your logic then, you should own iPhone 4s, especially since you can get a CDMA in less than a month.
I'd take a tegra2 android device over a WP7 device any day of the week (as long as it wasn't a motorola), although I'm happy with having a WP7 and an Android phone so I can either roll with big ass tiles or more options when I need them.

Oh wow a finger race. If that's how you are supposed to go thru your gallery wp7 is definitely a winner.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

orangekid said:
I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic:
Where do you get these magic beans from?!?!?!! I've been searching for milleniums!

WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery

@up You seem to understand what's going on, but it's sad how many muppets after seeing this video run around and scream: "OMG WP7 is SO BETTER THAN ANDROID" .
I think I'll make a video response to OP's video showing my Android gallery running as smooth as it can be.

krjcook said:
Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
<b>
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​</b>
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.

blanket said:
WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps are programmed multi-threaded, it is not the point, the OS should be programmed to take an advantage of multiple cores (process scheduler, etc.).

Stupidity amuses me. What exactly is faster? Two completely different apps coded for different things?
The fact that articles are going up for this is more amazing. Ignorance is bliss.
Try loading the exact same app and doing a test.

MartyLK said:
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have your pinion, I have proof.

MartyLK said:
You have your pinion, I have proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? I think it's time I made another video

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.

lqaddict said:
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.
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Click to collapse
android is not gpu accelerated. Who needs a source? it is not gpu optimized like ios or win phone
god even a google (a simple one) yields that
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=android+gpu+accelerated+OS?

I love how the Android fanboys crawled out of their holes like cockroaches to defend this. You'd almost think it was a personal insult...lol

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.