Related
[highlight]Mod Edit: @Mikey or overground: I have stuck this thread in here, but I will let both of you decide on the future of this sticky as I don't want to step on your toes in the organization of such stickies. It is a pretty good "Read First" thread and should remain stuck IMHO.
egzthunder1[/highlight]
When you start to look into rooting your phone, remember what Uncle Ben said:
"With great power comes great responsibility."
I struggled with whether to post this thread under "Development" or "General." I didn't see anything similar already under Development, and I firmly believe a thread such as this needs to be front and center in the Development area. As the OTA has been leaked (twice!), more and more inexperienced "junior modders" have started to comment in the forums. This is all well and good, but there really should be a central, basic tutorial including terms, do's and don'ts, etc. available to those that need it, while at the same time cleaning up the threads for specific ROMs from non-ROM-specific questions.
With that being said, I am going to post some basic guidelines/facts below. If you believe any of this information is not correct, please PM me so that we can come to a collaborative agreement without spreading confusion within the thread.
General Information for Beginners (Please At Least Read This Info!)
1. ROOTING IS NOT FOR EVERYONE! Please don't root because it's "cool" if you don't have any idea what you're doing. There really is nothing wrong with waiting for the official OTAs, etc. If you want to experiment with your phone, I applaud you - but see #2.
2. Always read ALL of the directions in a thread FIRST. Keep in mind that many threads will direct you to yet another thread for full instructions on a process - read those instructions entirely too!
3. Once you read the instructions. FOLLOW THEM. Do not take shortcuts. If you do, you may be the owner of a very expensive paperweight.
4. If you think your phone is stuck, boot looping, frozen, or whatever else, especially during a system, radio or ROM flash - DO NOT REMOVE YOUR BATTERY. Step away from the phone, and give it time. Give it at least half an hour, then reassess. (Thanks to sryan2k1)
5. If you encounter a pitfall, you should search the thread before you post your request for help so that you can see if others have had similar difficulties, as well as how they resolved them if they did in fact fix the issue.
6. If you found a solution to your problem you've asked for help on - please, post that you resolved it, and HOW you resolved it, especially if none of the advice offered by others helped.
7. The developer community is inherently an open and helpful one. Always feel free to post your questions, but please try to do your research first and always post your questions in the proper forum and thread. (Thanks to Linux4me28)
8. It's good practice to always make a backup! That may take the form of Nandroid (backing up your entire system, usually through Recovery), but if you start dabbling in ADB it also means rather than overwriting files you should simply append the old file's name until you're sure you've got it right (myfile.zip > myfile.zip.bak).
Rooting and Mod Terms, Basics, etc.
1. "Rooting" means, essentially, providing yourself with administrative rights to your phone.
2. A "ROM" is basically an entire system image - think of it like Windows XP versus Windows 7.
3. A ROM will *not* root your phone.
4. "Bricking" your phone means it's permanently borked. If you can turn your phone on and get to virtually any system screen, you're probably not bricked, and there's probably hope for you and your device!
5. You must be already rooted to install a ROM.
6. A ROM is installed through a custom recovery, such as ClockworkMod Recovery.
7. There are tools in existence, such as UnrEvoked3.x that will assist in easily rooting your phone.
8. The "Radio" is (in layman's terms) the part of the phone that interacts with a service provider's tower, and it too has firmware. Flashing a Radio image is a bit more of a risky proposition than just flashing a ROM, but it may be required in some cases. Again, ALWAYS READ THE DIRECTIONS.
9. ROMs are device-specific and, oftentimes, Radio-specific as well. This means that you must pay attention to the requirements for the ROM you want to install.
10. Remember: Rooting doesn't mean that you'll have any more success in "pirating" software. It just means you'll be able to control more of your phone's functions. I think you'll find that the developer community is even more protective of IP rights than the average user-base. A lot of developers work off of donations, but that doesn't mean that credit for their original works shouldn't be given.
Miscellaneous
1. Google is your friend, and so is the "Search Thread" tool. Please do not post questions in a thread when you could easily, and more quickly, find the answer by doing a search. That's just lazy .
Links to Other Helpful Threads
HTC Droid Incredible Helpful/Popular Threads (Thanks to stroupified)
I welcome any additions, but let's keep this polite and courteous. I was new at this once, myself - three weeks ago I purchased my first Android device, the Dinc. And yes, I mean that to be a somewhat strange statement. Before I've done ANY modifications, I've read the instructions, read the entire thread, and followed all directions to the letter. The only pitfall I've had was because I took a shortcut - once (but I learned my lesson!).
Changelog
08/04/10 - Cleaned up some formatting and spelling. Added contributions from others.
08/05/10 - Added links from other contributors, as well as additional information. Things were also getting unwieldy, so I broke things up a bit to make it more readable. If everyone prefers it all mashed together like it was, please let me know.
Excellent advice, sir.
I lurked here for months before trying to root and install ROMS. While I'm not a pro at it yet and have much to learn, I have more confidence in what I'm doing.
I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.
^^^ This should be stickied...
I agree with op couldn't said it any better. Also agreed it should be sticky post.
Sent from my ADR6300
Excellent! Bravo!
TNS201 said:
I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.
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I have a character flaw of wanting to wring the very last drop of performance out of my electronic devices...plus I find it challenging.
I'm sure there's a bit of "I'm really not supposed to be doing this" involved as well.
magneticzero said:
There is no reason this belongs in the dev thread. reported.
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I am going to have to disagree with you. A general set of guidelines for people to follow are always a good idea in a development forum. Something like this is bound to catch at least a few wandering eyes of new-comers into the site. By reading this, they will likely lurk around, read, and search before asking questions, avoiding possible flaming in the process (and making mod's lives a bit easier in the process too )
Also, fairly important, if you are in the middle of a flash/recovery, and you think the phone has frozen, or bricked, or stopped. DO NOT PULL THE BATTERY OUT.
Wait at least a half hour before touching it. It is the same with any device, a computer BIOS, phones, embedded devices, it may not look like it is doing anything, but it likely still is. That is one of the few ways to really brick a device is yank the power in the middle of a OS/ROM/Baseband/Etc flash.
We do it all the time on our hardware at work, but we have JTAG ports where we can reprogram the internal/external flash with a external tools. We don't have that luxury on these phones. Patience is your friend.
well said sir. the incredible was my first android device and i waited a couple months before i rooted it and felt comfortable with adb and weighed the benefits of rooting vs not rooting (that took like 2 min lol) I love technology and belive in running it to it's full potential because we paid $xxx.xx for our divices we should want to get our money's worth.
i was gonna suggest some threads that helped me out but someone has alread complied them into it's own thread. maybe you could make a shortcut for those people who are new to the forum. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=739428
magneticzero said:
Good read, but it is just "General Information". How is it directly helping me development a ROM or OS update? Just wondering...
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It benefits you in that you hopefully might have fewer people cluttering your Dev threads. No offense, but you're assuming the average consumer is going to look in "General Information" for General Information. They don't. There should be some detterent in place. As these types of devices become more prevalent, you should understand that the average "Development" visitor and poster is no longer a Developer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
thank you.
great hopefully more people will read this
magneticzero said:
So what you are implying it isnt really a development section of the forum....maybe they need to lock it and just post releases to you in the general forum....no matter what people are still gonna post crap and clutter this place.
I vote lock this forum to developers only and make it read only for general public.
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magneticzero said:
i am entitled to my opinion. cheers!
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With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.
Quite honestly this is the most sensible piece of information on XDA. I implore you to talk to some of the other dev mods (particularly evo 4g) and offer to add this as a sticky. I've been here a short while myself, but have already seen things devolved to a level of non-civility that makes me not want to participate anymore myself.
Seriously, awesome post.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
egzthunder1 said:
With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.
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We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.
douger1957 said:
We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.
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You know what's great though? Even he offered to meet me in IRC to help with an issue one time. That's what's great about this community.
I am a lurker and while I was good at messing with custom ROMS in Windows, I have been crawling up a steep learning curve with Android. But then I am a 50 year old lady lawyer so of course it's steep...
I rarely post anything. I do NOT ask questions because I do not want yelled at. BUT!
I have learned a great deal from other peoples' questions and the answers provided by the technically adept. Please don't close this forum to civilians. The information imparted in the give and take between n00bs and pros is invaluable as a teaching method, really it is.
The one observation I would make, though, is that 500 page forums are not really useful. Maybe shut them down more quickly as issues which emerge are addressed. For instance, once a newer ROM has been released, or patched, or an issue resolved, close that forum and start a new one with the resolved issue as the subject of the new thread and a link to it as the last post in the referring thread.
Thank to all of you for making owning a droid a blast!
Read and re-read....
I bricked a phone cause i read something wrong, once i read it again i got it, plus i had a few older phones that i toyed with to see if i understood everything.....nice having a few older devices around to test if your a noob. Like myself....
I totally agree with all that has been said here. The DInc took a long time to get root, but once it did, I was ready to give it a shot..as I had already been flashing, and cooking roms for my WM 6800..and also loaded a few hybrid OS's on my Storm.. so this was naturally the next chapter in my development as a developer...which is the endgame.. Bravo to all who help to keep rooting/modding fun, and edifying! Next I'm going to see if I can cook up my own Froyo ROM..
Is it just me or shouldn't be mandatory to have the dates entered in the titles of threads in the development sections? I know it's mandatory throughout many other device forums, I'm not sure why it isn't on this one, and others that I've seen. I believe is makes everything much easier to follow rather than a sling of rom names and / or version numbers, etc.
I'm on the fence on this because I'm so appreciative of the Devs who support the T989 with quality Roms.
On one hand I think they should run their threads however they like with reason but on the other it would make keeping up with development a whole lot easier.
I remember when the ICS leak dropped I was all kinds of confused (still am a little) on their update frequencies. This made it a bit more difficult to pinpoint a Devs work ethic (which I factor in as well as quality) because it was untimely coupled with posts from anybody bumping threads up for any reason.
M&S has one of the best titles to his threads because he updates the date, and Rom version with titles so I can't miss his from a mile away.
With that said it would be nice to have dates (especially for those who don't frequent XDA daily) or in the least change the Rom versions in the title.
I don't mind searching but it would be quicker/efficient for dates.
Can you imagine when TMob drops the official ICS...
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
eugene373 said:
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
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I don't mind searching a bit to see an OP's timestamp edits.
However, the dates imo help with breaking down a Rom's status quicker by scrolling the forum threads by title without much digging than that.
I think the dates would help those who aren't on XDA much because they can catch up quicker on Rom changes.
Also, I think it's easier for those use the XDA app primarily because (as far as I've searched) it doesn't readily show timestamps for edits in OPs.
I don't view titling threads with dates as increasing development speeds just readily available info. I hope others don't as well, cause great things come over time
The devs don't do enough already...lets add more BS. Dl
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
you don't like version number but you want dates. that does not make sense. moving forward a date, is the same as moving up a version number.
Why do all the regular users here keep thinking they know how the show should be run for us devs. We're doing our part for you guys, just do yours and deal with our threads they way we choose to set them up.
-Mr. X- said:
you don't like version number but you want dates. that does not make sense. moving forward a date, is the same as moving up a version number.
Why do all the regular users here keep thinking they know how the show should be run for us devs. We're doing our part for you guys, just do yours and deal with our threads they way we choose to set them up.
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I'm especially amused by this considering the hell storm when the mods tried regulating how regular users post in dev threads
eugene373 said:
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
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the only difference between last modified on the op and a date in the title is that last modified could be fixing a typo or something. imo, revision number is just as good, but one or the other is/should be necessary because just checking the thread title is easy (i.e. i'm lazy). though, some revision numbers are inconsistent. and a date usually makes it easy to tell if something is based off the newest leak or not (which THAT should be mandatory: the android version number and the build/leak it's based off cause i've seen a bunch of roms missing that basic info in the op).
Imposing too many rules on devs who provide a free service is a bad idea. Leave things the way they are.
I vote no.
I think it should be mandatory for users to open a thread and read the op and changelog before asking if there was an update. Derp.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
suggesting rules on someone who is giving away something for free ......
well im sure you can get my drift.
be thankful, and do a little more reading.
To add with previous comment. There is no need to cater to people who want to flash a ROM without reading OP. ROM Manager tried to do this and all that ended up happening is people bricking their device because they got used to flashing without reading and as soon as a International s2 ROM was accidently posted in t989 rom section you had people bricking.
I vote no, the developers can choose to post and manage their threads how they see fit....besides...its not that hard to open up the thread and look at the bottom of the OP and see the last time it was updated...
Yes, yes and yes. Why is it a big deal to let people know by looking at a thread title when it was updated? Why make someone open a thread and search for when it was revised? If you are putting a revision number in there, why not a date? It is not so much imposing a rule as it is a valid suggestion to help the end user. Is it really that big of a request that someone would stop developing because they were asked to put a date in the title? Getting real tired of hearing all the crying about devs doing this for free as well. If you are going to post work on a forum you are going to get requests, you may get criticism, you will definitely get repeat questions and people that have no clue. Yes it is free, and it is on your own time and all that, but no one is forcing anyone to come here either.
I do appreciate the work that is done here, I would probably still be using a cry phone if it wasn't for this community and having the ability to customize my device. So thank you to all the devs that do this because they enjoy doing it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Micronads said:
Yes, yes and yes. Why is it a big deal to let people know by looking at a thread title when it was updated? Why make someone open a thread and search for when it was revised? If you are putting a revision number in there, why not a date? It is not so much imposing a rule as it is a valid suggestion to help the end user. Is it really that big of a request that someone would stop developing because they were asked to put a date in the title? Getting real tired of hearing all the crying about devs doing this for free as well. If you are going to post work on a forum you are going to get requests, you may get criticism, you will definitely get repeat questions and people that have no clue. Yes it is free, and it is on your own time and all that, but no one is forcing anyone to come here either.
I do appreciate the work that is done here, I would probably still be using a cry phone if it wasn't for this community and having the ability to customize my device. So thank you to all the devs that do this because they enjoy doing it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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Appreciate the honesty as opposed to voting one way and posting another.
On the other hand I do think its funny but not unexpected that people think it is asking too much to ask people to posts only dev related information in dev topics or not post duplicate questions (ie read before posting) but its not too much to ask for a new rule on devs.
Gimme gimme gimme some more.
jim93 said:
I'm especially amused by this considering the hell storm when the mods tried regulating how regular users post in dev threads
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posting trash in dev threads and not being arsed to read thread edit dates and track version numbers of development that interests you are two different things, but both bad habits that users could possess
the fact that every dev posts a change log just makes this suggest even more ridiculous.
Keep micromanaging the devs to death and they will just go elsewhere. It is the truth.
-Mr. X- said:
posting trash in dev threads and not being arsed to read thread edit dates and track version numbers of development that interests you are two different things, but both bad habits that users could possess
the fact that every dev posts a change log just makes this suggest even more ridiculous.
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If the last few weeks have proven anything it is that people dont see those things as bad habits but things to be proud of.
After further deliberation I vote: No
To me Roms/Kernels/etc are like cars/engines/etc. if one is given either for free and it has been proven worldwide that it wont hurt one who uses it...
Wouldn't the model info be enough... I believe so.
Eugene's right, it's not like dates make it fresher.
In fact I think threads without it gives the Rom/Kernel/etc. timelessness.
I love Android/T989 forums.
Its where questions/comments are met with... passion.
Those IOS forums have no clue what they're missing out on. lol
People seem to forget that xda is a knowledge sharing site and those that share shouldn't be slapped with stupid rules and regulations on how they choose to title their work. My 2 cents.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA
DON'T POST!¡ THREAD IS NOW UNDER CONSTRUCTION!
This thread is about discussing ROMs, mostly reviewing, giving opinions and else. ~~~~~~~~~~~
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED BY READING ALL TEXT BELOW, GO TO 2nd POST!
TO SIMPLY UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND THIS THREAD
SO YOU MAY BECOME IMPORTANT PART OF THIS DISCUSSION BY GIVING REVIEWS AND OPINIONS!
Hello Guys,
Many people using Android handset confused about making decision on which ROM they will be using for daily activities...
Before flashing they may take a look at others' reviews. The opinions about the ROM are usually posted under ROMs thread, so users can make better judgement before install it depending on what they want it to be. But on some cases, the reviews may not be perfectly honest sometimes on new developed ROMs which have a lot of bugs to at least appreciate the developers, and someone who've tested would rather say honestly in PMs. It's obliously pretty difficult for us to decide whether it's good enough or not. But sometimes, even new, they are good. Happens when the testers make complete review in posts of the ROM's thread.
Hail Open Source, Android lovers!
That is normal, so the users would trust the developers capability. If the bugs are clearly said in the thread, we still can assume that we need opinions. Because every person might say different about something. Nice screenshots aren't enough. In regular ROM thread, we have to search for opinions. No way every posts contained opinions.
Summary, most of the issues which have been said above just happened if the ROMs are still in development. Of course we could undoubtedly trust the proven ones. Issues that have been said above are mostly about newly developed ROMs.
So, to simplify searching and observing the ROMs (mostly the new-developed), we are making this thread. That's what we want to find here and discuss.
You are INVITED here to make reviews about ROM you are using with guides about what to flash and install or with another third party support to make it perfect enough.
Before Starting. . .
There are some points you should know about this thread: ~~~~~~~~~~~
~This thread is made for sharing about ROMs so people could know how and what to do to get a stable, smooth, and suitable ROMs for specific needs of every person. (Customized, Performance-boosted, etc)
~ YOU ARE INVITED to post your experience about specific ROMs in the compilation, and things that might boost performance which added, like Kernels, Fixes or maybe Scripts. But you may suggest unlisted ROM to be published. The post mainly talks about ROMs and the added things like boost are just for supporting the ROMs' capability. YOUR POSTS will be posted below the compilation of ROMs listed (if attractive and important enough, may contained information guides, etc.) The compilation may be limited (it will not be as much as regular compilation of ROMs because it just is including ROMs of Most Users. No kernels. Nothing other than ROMs.) Opinions could be helping. Explanation required. Posted updated at a period of time.
~Before posting, you are expected to read the rules and understand it. Then implement when posting. We expect your obedience for the neatness of the thread.
Here are the rules:
Here are the basic rules, additions will be added if necessary:
»»» The post should obey the Xda Forum Rules. «««
»»» The post shouldn't be offense others, you can say disagree for others' opinions but please make sure the words are good enough to be read and fulfill the politeness. «««
»»» Please post facts, so people will not confuse whether it's real or not. «««
»»» The discussion is expected to be according to the topic. «««
»»» Opinions are the major main problem expected by many people, so don't hesitate yourself by not saying it. It won't be considered spamming at all, we need THIS to be stickied! «««
That settle the problems!
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Our object of discussion is. . . Gio!
Gio, as middle devices, has gotten upgrade from Froyo to Gingerbread, and the ported developed ICS rom still seems pretty difficult to be used for daily activities because the problems of camera, and else...
Example, the Cyan9.0, people who want to install it may not know if the camera is not working if they miss the detailed bugs. And because of reading reviews the may know it well. Even though after knowing they might install without any hesitation. But overall, the ROM is perfect enough in stability and everyone has been using it.
And still, this device has many ways in order to make good performance for various user needs.
So? So? So? !?
Let's share all things to make the handset stable and smooth!
REVIEWS AND OPINIONS
Basically we're helping each other to build better ROM.
Because even a genius needs others' helps. . .
So why don't we help if we could.
So let's get started by the compilation.
Here are what the most users would have:
reserved 3
reserved 4
You know, newbies (like I myself am quite often) who ask dumb questions that can be easily answered with a five second google search.
Sometimes we get confused and ask questions that should be easily answered.
Sometimes we're just lazy or frustrated and ask instead of search.
Sometimes we're on our phones and searching is a PITA compared to just asking.
I get a little "short" with these questions, even though I too behave like a newb sometimes.
I try to be patient, but sometimes I come across as sarcastic in my replies.
I guess I have a low patience level then. I need to be better with my replies.
What about you?
Let's try to keep this conversation as constructive/friendly as possible. :good:
Meh, I have patience. But on this site, there's to many chiefs and not enough indians. I'm so sick and tired of people with responses like "use the search bar man" or "why don't you read the thread" those answers are just as dumb as the dumb questions and also "spam" dev threads.
I've always had the mentality that there's no such thing as a stupid question.
People have always and always will ask questions without doing searches....it will never change.
So don't be an ass when you see "stupid questions" its not hurting you in any way and just help the damn people.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
I guess I'm torn. I'm a new who knows nothing about code or programing but I also realize that its a dev site. The extra noobs here help spread the devs work to more people than they would have had use their work before. The easy to find solutions questions will happen.
I realize the dumb questions happen but I do my best to realize if someone tried sincerely to find a solution.
Zelendel's off quoted post makes sense when it comes to how we are viewed when we need help.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
I try to help to the best of my ability with as much patience as possible. However, if I search and find it within seconds, I may come off as a little rude, and usually start the post with "please remember to use the search bar in the future. I found the answer within seconds....." and then below that I answer their questions. =p
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
questions
I understand that XDA is primarily intended as a development site, but I think things often get taken too far. I have been on XDA for about 3 years since before rooting my first Android phone. This, in fact, is about my fourth post. I am still locked out from posting in the Development forums. I do read several almost daily.
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.
I don't have any tolerance..
This is a DO AT YOUR OWN RISK website
A DEVELOPMENT website.
Its OK to be informative when the other person knows exactly what they are doing.
But to walk somebody every step of the way in my point of view its unnecessary. Devs don't have any responsibility over what happens to your phone. Nor do they need to do everything possible to make your phone work. I can cook a ROM and post it in the dev thread and say "absolutely nothing works but phone calls." I have no obligation to fix anything or make anything happen. Its a piece of work I chose to develop and share with other who are experienced and know what they are doing. Most problems, I'd say 90% of them, from a "stable" ROM come from the users end. Its is a persons duty as an individual to know what you got yourself into and to figure out a way to fix it. A lot of people still don't comprehend that.
I also have no tolerance into trying to turn XDA into a "social network" If you keep in touch with other members here outside of XDA then that's cool, but this needs to stay a development site...
I hate seeing the whole "I flashed this now my phone isn't working." My answer is always the same "Good, that way you learn." We all don't use the search bar or bother to use Google. Its a bad habit, specially on this site, but we all do it. But reading an OP should be the least thing anyone should do.. Most questions that are being asked are answered in the OP. And if you don't have the time to read a couple pages into a ROM thread, you shouldn't be flashing or messing with anything at all.
Once again I'll say, this is a do at your own risk. Its exactly why you get disclaimers in the OP of a rom.No one is going to hold your hand when you brick your phone.
Read read read and if you question yourself about modifying your phone, don't do it lol phones come with an already stable firmware on them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Rick-SG3 said:
I understand the need to keep the volume of BS to a minimum on those forums, but I also feel the the developers do have a need/obligation to help people that are having issues with problems that they do not have the resources to troubleshoot or understand, and to raise the level of knowledge of all forum members. They publish many great ROMS, Kernals, utilities, etc on these forums with the expectation that everyone out there, including me are their Beta testers. They obviously are looking for feedback and results that other people are having to fix bugs, update instruction and documentation, and get ideas for future enhancements.
Most of the Developers are NOT entertaining any discussion of developing on these forums anyway. They obviously are either doing their work or collaborating with others offline of the respective forums.
Aside from blatant trolling, or a complete lack of self-initiative, I believe all questions should be welcomed and answered. Maybe this needs to be in in a sub-forum under the development thread that also helps us find valid information. One Q&A thread to support all of the I747 initiatives becomes a bit too general and overwhelming.
My two cents. Thanks for the space to say it.
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The devs on here DO NOT have an obligation to anyone. Many build a rom for their own use and choose to share it. Others are out to achieve the perfect rom for their own use. For this reason some entertain problems while others will not. They do not have to help you if they choose not to. Many times, the question or problem presented has been asked and answered more than once, but rather than take the time to do a search and read a little, people want to have the answer handed to them. Welcome to a place where each individual is responsible for their own actions!
For the reason of questions, that is why XDA created Q&A. The developer threads are for developing and feedback (which is at the OP's discretion to act upon), not to answer questions you have. As far as overwhelming, this is why each section in XDA has the ability to do a search within...so you can narrow down the options.
I'm looking for a stable 4.4 which would be as stable as possible. The reason for this is that I use my Nexus for alarm clock and it's really unpleasant if I find it in SOD when I oversleep. I don't really need so much additional features, it's a bonus though, but it's more important that it's fast and bugless.
Are there any or should I stay on Cataclysm 4.3?
Well, you can only reliably know which ROM is the most stable by trying them yourself. That's part of the culture of XDA, to try ROMs from different developers and then to give feedback on them.
As for me, I just installed the latest CM11 nightly and it seems reasonably stable. Will test the battery life and stability for a few more days after installing some apps. Will try XenonHD next if this one isn't stable enough or has poor battery life. The phone does get hot when I'm running heavy applications and games, which is the only problem I have noticed so far.
Im running the CM11 Nightlies as well and cant complain at all. Havent had any issues with any of them. I usually update every couple days to the latest nightly.
If it's just using the device as an alarm, then CM11 nightlies would be quite enough. I've been using my own GNex as an alarm too.
Sent from Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE @ CM11
I've read through several ROM threads that a lot of them have have slowdowns and lags. Is that also the case for CM11? How about other CM based ROMs, like CM-remix?
Can't say much about other roms (aside from CM i've only ever tried AOKP jb-mr2 briefly), i'm on CM11 M2 right now and i can say it's smooth and has no hiccups and lags - much better than stock 4.3 and cm10.2 which i had beforehand.
I'm also using the device as an alarm clock and it works well.
Seriously? How many times do people have to be told that threads like this are against XDA rules. If you want a stable rom then try some roms out yourself and decide what you prefer for yourself. This is a development community meant for people that want to take the initiative to learn and do for themselves not a place for people to have others do their work for them.
Do some reading and you'll surely find the answers you seek.
krneki10 said:
I'm looking for a stable 4.4 which would be as stable as possible.
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me too. cant find anything. CM blows, pa has graphics glitches and vanir gives me reboots.
tried em all and they all seem to suck.
4.3 is waaaay smoother for me.
a stock 4.4.2 build would be great.
if anyone finds any decent roms + a good 4.4 kernel (Franco/Faux) or two let me know.
Nephilim, sorry, I thought that it's forbidden to open only general ROM comparison threads, but I'm asking only for the ideas of pretty specific needs. You could also take this thread as a discussion if 4.4 ROMs in general are really stable enough for everyday use.
Not all of us have time to test every build of every ROM, because it would take a bit too much. That's why we have a community here to ask others for their opinion and experiences. At least that's how I imagine it, but of course, I might be wrong.
Nephilim said:
not a place for people to have others do their work for them
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what is your problem anyway ?
since when is illegal to ask for some information ? i was also curious for some information about custom roms and i stumbled upon the same message from you several times
if i ask for any useful information.....am i automatically a lazy who prefers to have others do my work ?
iconicpaul said:
what is your problem anyway ?
since when is illegal to ask for some information ? i was also curious for some information about custom roms and i stumbled upon the same message from you several times
if i ask for any useful information.....am i automatically a lazy who prefers to have others do my work ?
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No it isnt illegal. But these threads are pointless... There is no best ROM so these threads will never be solved/answered. And the devs work hard to build a ROM and then some people in a thread will tell him his ROM sucks and the other one is better.. Its personal preference anyway. And every ROM is stable otherwise they wouldnt be released on xda (except when told otherwise or in beta etc.). Thats the whole point. There are tons of these threads. They are just useless. Just try out a ROM and if it suits your needs be happy and thank the developer and if you arent just move on to the next one.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
mrgnex said:
No it isnt illegal. But these threads are pointless... There is no best ROM so these threads will never be solved/answered. And the devs work hard to build a ROM and then some people in a thread will tell him his ROM sucks and the other one is better.. Its personal preference anyway. And every ROM is stable otherwise they wouldnt be released on xda (except when told otherwise or in beta etc.). Thats the whole point. There are tons of these threads. They are just useless. Just try out a ROM and if it suits your needs be happy and thank the developer and if you arent just move on to the next one.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
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acknowledged, thank you
iconicpaul said:
what is your problem anyway ?
since when is illegal to ask for some information ? i was also curious for some information about custom roms and i stumbled upon the same message from you several times
if i ask for any useful information.....am i automatically a lazy who prefers to have others do my work ?
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Click to collapse
My problem is that if you aren't willing to put in the work and try roms yourself you have no business on a development forum. Asking others is just looking for someone else to do the work for you. Threads like this are basically spam because any info you need can be found in the threads made for each rom. If you are asking in a thread like this you are definitely lazy because you obviously dont want to put in the effort of finding the information by reading the rom threads. Mrgnex pretty much said the rest.
Sent from my Android 4.4.2 Galaxy Nexus
ParanoidAndroid 4 BETA
I'm using an edited version of ParanoidAndroid 4 BETA. The official beta has some graphical issues and random freezes, but the edited version is very stable with no problems at all. It's based on Android 4.4.2. Give it a try: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2589481
Nephilim said:
My problem is that if you aren't willing to put in the work and try roms yourself you have no business on a development forum. Asking others is just looking for someone else to do the work for you. Threads like this are basically spam because any info you need can be found in the threads made for each rom. If you are asking in a thread like this you are definitely lazy because you obviously dont want to put in the effort of finding the information by reading the rom threads. Mrgnex pretty much said the rest.
Sent from my Android 4.4.2 Galaxy Nexus
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I'd fully agree with your comments, IF this thread was posted in development section, but it's not, it's in the GENERAL section.
So I don't see why NORMAL users(AKA non-flashaholics) can't freely discuss which ROM they prefer, regardless of stability.
BTW
I've tried out a lot of different/newer ROM's from 4.1 to 4.4.2 yet every time I've still went back to using PA 4.1.2 for over a year now, since no other ROM have the exact same great features I enjoy using daily.
Also I don't see why any Developer would really care if certain people dislike their ROM's, seeing as the whole reason they created one would be because they disliked the other ROM's available and wanted to build one them selves to their liking, many using the same features from other developers, just with their own tweaks.
Which is what I'm thinking I'll have learn to do since every ROM I've tested has some feature that's just not working as I'd like.
You suggesting every user go and test out every ROM just means there will be more individual threads created complaining about every ROM they flash/test.
So don't you think it's better to have 1 or 2 main ROM version threads in the GENERAL section to DISCUSS different individual Rom's in the GENERAL matter?
In other words if you don't really have anything to help out in the thread topic/discussion then just don't view it.
I personally enjoy reading about what others have to say, likely saving me time and headache from having to test out every Rom's myself.
I very much doubt there would be as many Rom's available as there are today if nobody discussed them.
Wasn't that the whole point of having an open sourced android OS?
isajoo said:
I'd fully agree with your comments, IF this thread was posted in development section, but it's not, it's in the GENERAL section.
So I don't see why NORMAL users(AKA non-flashaholics) can't freely discuss which ROM they prefer, regardless of stability.
BTW
I've tried out a lot of different/newer ROM's from 4.1 to 4.4.2 yet every time I've still went back to using PA 4.1.2 for over a year now, since no other ROM have the exact same great features I enjoy using daily.
Also I don't see why any Developer would really care if certain people dislike their ROM's, seeing as the whole reason they created one would be because they disliked the other ROM's available and wanted to build one them selves to their liking, many using the same features from other developers, just with their own tweaks.
Which is what I'm thinking I'll have learn to do since every ROM I've tested has some feature that's just not working as I'd like.
You suggesting every user go and test out every ROM just means there will be more individual threads created complaining about every ROM they flash/test.
So don't you think it's better to have 1 or 2 main ROM version threads in the GENERAL section to DISCUSS different individual Rom's in the GENERAL matter?
In other words if you don't really have anything to help out in the thread topic/discussion then just don't view it.
I personally enjoy reading about what others have to say, likely saving me time and headache from having to test out every Rom's myself.
I very much doubt there would be as many Rom's available as there are today if nobody discussed them.
Wasn't that the whole point of having an open sourced android OS?
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First of all, threads like this would not be constantly deleted by Senior Moderators if they were allowed. Next, I never once said that everyone should go and try every rom. I said that people need to go to the rom threads and READ, if the rom seems like something they would like to try then they should flash it, if not move onto another rom. Next, after flashing the said rom they are trying they can READ the thread pertaining to said rom to find answers to their questions.
You see where I am going here?
There is NO REASON for threads like this. All the information anyone could need can be found in the rom threads. If an individual needs to make a thread like this it just says that they are too lazy to read all the information that is already provided in multiple threads, available to everyone. If you want to discuss a rom then make a community on Google+, I already have done the same. This site is called XDA Developers. If you have questions about a rom then read the thread about the rom and if you do not see the question you have already asked then go ahead and ask it.
If you want to make a thread here in the general section to discuss a rom you have already flashed and are running, that would not be a big issue either but..... Making a thread simply to ask others to tell you which rom is most stable or which rom is the best serve no purpose but to congest areas of XDA with useless spam.
If you are here, you have either rooted your device or plan to, either way if you are here for that then you have enough brains to read and gain knowledge the correct way by doing the legwork yourself.
If the amount of effort you put into trying to debate my legitimate reasons why this thread does not belong was put into discovering roms for yourself then there would never be a need for anyone to make a thread like this.
Bottomline, only lazy people make threads like this and XDA is for forum for adults seeking to enhance their knowledge of mobile development by way of contribution, not a G+ community to request everyone do your work for you while you sit around posting screenshots of your homescreen and icon theme.
Not a thing anyone responds to me with will justify these type of useless threads. Every way you can learn what you need about roms has been mentioned in my posts and none of them require an entire thread dedicated to asking others to give you the answers.
Nephilim said:
First of all, threads like this would not be constantly deleted by Senior Moderators if they were allowed. Next, I never once said that everyone should go and try every rom. I said that people need to go to the rom threads and READ, if the rom seems like something they would like to try then they should flash it, if not move onto another rom. Next, after flashing the said rom they are trying they can READ the thread pertaining to said rom to find answers to their questions.
You see where I am going here?
There is NO REASON for threads like this. All the information anyone could need can be found in the rom threads. If an individual needs to make a thread like this it just says that they are too lazy to read all the information that is already provided in multiple threads, available to everyone. If you want to discuss a rom then make a community on Google+, I already have done the same. This site is called XDA Developers. If you have questions about a rom then read the thread about the rom and if you do not see the question you have already asked then go ahead and ask it.
If you want to make a thread here in the general section to discuss a rom you have already flashed and are running, that would not be a big issue either but..... Making a thread simply to ask others to tell you which rom is most stable or which rom is the best serve no purpose but to congest areas of XDA with useless spam.
If you are here, you have either rooted your device or plan to, either way if you are here for that then you have enough brains to read and gain knowledge the correct way by doing the legwork yourself.
If the amount of effort you put into trying to debate my legitimate reasons why this thread does not belong was put into discovering roms for yourself then there would never be a need for anyone to make a thread like this.
Bottomline, only lazy people make threads like this and XDA is for forum for adults seeking to enhance their knowledge of mobile development by way of contribution, not a G+ community to request everyone do your work for you while you sit around posting screenshots of your homescreen and icon theme.
Not a thing anyone responds to me with will justify these type of useless threads. Every way you can learn what you need about roms has been mentioned in my posts and none of them require an entire thread dedicated to asking others to give you the answers.
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I would respectfully disagree. Not everyone has followed the entire course of development for the Galaxy Nexus from the beginning. It is hard to know where to start if you are just now reading up on things (as I am). People are trying to do their research otherwise they would just flash any old thing and then complain when nothing works.
In many other fields (I work in biology) it is very common to have a review article to get people up to speed on a specific topic without them having to read every primary piece of evidence on a topic because that is a lot of needless repetitive work that has already been done. It isn't being lazy. It is being efficient.
I stumbled upon this thread and found it to be EXACTLY what I was looking for and very relevant. Just a quick guide to let me know if it was worth looking into kitkat roms or if (as I suspected) I should stick with Jelly Bean roms for now since stability is also my primary goal. I can't understand the hostile nature towards people trying to educate themselves that seems to permeate xda sometimes...
Saturn1217 said:
I would respectfully disagree. Not everyone has followed the entire course of development for the Galaxy Nexus from the beginning. It is hard to know where to start if you are just now reading up on things (as I am). People are trying to do their research otherwise they would just flash any old thing and then complain when nothing works.
In many other fields (I work in biology) it is very common to have a review article to get people up to speed on a specific topic without them having to read every primary piece of evidence on a topic because that is a lot of needless repetitive work that has already been done. It isn't being lazy. It is being efficient.
I stumbled upon this thread and found it to be EXACTLY what I was looking for and very relevant. Just a quick guide to let me know if it was worth looking into kitkat roms or if (as I suspected) I should stick with Jelly Bean roms for now since stability is also my primary goal. I can't understand the hostile nature towards people trying to educate themselves that seems to permeate xda sometimes...
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Apparently you have not read a word of what I posted.
There is NO reason for these type of posts because all the information you seek on a rom or kernel is in their respective thread. Even if you do not want to use them you still have all the review you need from people on the thread that actually used the rom or kernel, these threads are a copout for lazy people that do not take the time to read where the information is already easily accessible. These types of threads are spam, they are made by people who come to XDA and do not even put a second of time into looking through threads before just expecting that posting a new thread and asking about what is the best will get them all the info they need without any effort.
I have said this many times already, In school, when you have a test or assignment, does your teacher give that test or assignment to you and then immediately hand over the answers? Hell no they don't, they expect you to research and study to find the answers. As adults that is what should be done here as well, otherwise you ultimately learn nothing.
I use the official 4.4.2 gummy build and it is very stable for me and have not encountered any issues.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I am using VanirAOSP. Its very fast and also stable!