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So, with WP7, we lose all support for the .cab and associated API as it exists now. Replacing it is the .xab format.
What's a .xap?
A .xap is a simple, every day .zip file, renamed to .xap. Inside, it contains the app and all relevant dependencies. There are a number of possible .xml files that could be included inside the .xap to determine things like required security access level, to tell the system which .dll contains the main() for the application, etc.
I believe the .zip also provides a container for the virtual filesystem available to the app (not sure on that, it may be stored in a separate container, have to analyze more)
At least initially, .xaps will only be available for deployment through the Marketplace.
Regarding preloaded applications by OEM/MO: Requirements are much more strict in this regard now due to frequent end-user complaints about "slow, laggy, etc" Stock ROMs. I know every one of you reading this knows what I mean Preloaded App Requirements (which will be distributed as .xap) as follows:
Maximum of 6 preloaded applications on the device, not to exceed 60MB
All preloaded apps must pass Marketplace submission process (some extended APIs are available to OEM/MO so the process is slightly relaxed in that regard)
The application(s) and all future updates must be free of charge.
The apps must launch without dependency on network availability.
The apps must persist through a "hard reset".
The apps must be updatable and revocable (!!!!) through the Marketplace.
The apps must notify the user at first launch of any capabilities to be utilized and get user consent (to access compass, accelerometer, network, etc.)
I've attached a .xap to this post for your examination. It's renamed to .zip for the attachment system to allow it.
Hehe.. this reminds of the "widgets" for Vista and 7 or the "apk"s for Android. Same stuff it sounds like Thanks for the info master Da_G
Does this mean .cab.pkgs are being changed too?
The .cab.pkg format remains intact for imageupdate (actually I haven't examined it in depth just yet, but all indications are that they have not changed .cab.pkg format)
Bump for visibility
Interesting...Wonder if there will be a process to convert some cabs to xabs.
Highly unlikely. xab's are silverlight applications meaning you have to use xaml , c# code and libabries all in one small zipped file. Cab's are Cabinent files that has an inf file that specifes what libabries and files are going to be enclosed in the file. To put it simply a xab is a standalone application that does not require extraction or installation to run and a cab is an application which requires an extraction and for its contents to be placed in specific areas in order for the dependents to find and use them.
Also to clarify. Local storage for xab's are not defined or stored in the xab file. they are defined by the silverlight runtimes which is handled by the os. As of now since there is little information as to how the windows phone internal structure is (apart from us knowing that windows phone will utilised microsoft unified storage.). on windows 7 and windws vista after u install the silverliht runtimes all xab's that request local storage is stored in <SYSTEMDRIVE>\Users\<user>\AppData\LocalLow\Microsoft\Silverlight\is .. Just note silverlight local storage works just like flash local storage. the only exception so far for windows phone is that u will not be able to access a lot of local directories just predefined stuff like music, pictures and documents.
Just before people get into bad habits; they are xap, not xab files. No relationship to cabs whatsoever save as a container format.
Da_G said:
Regarding preloaded applications by OEM/MO: Requirements are much more strict in this regard now due to frequent end-user complaints about "slow, laggy, etc" Stock ROMs. I know every one of you reading this knows what I mean Preloaded App Requirements (which will be distributed as .xap) as follows:
[*]Maximum of 6 preloaded applications on the device, not to exceed 60MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just brain damaged. Pre-loaded apps add clutter, but they also cut down on cost. Choose your poison. Pre-loading has little to do with with speed penalties, when done properly. Frankly, if roms have the same ancient architecture under WM7, then Microsoft really needs some technical leadership replaced.
[*]All preloaded apps must pass Marketplace submission process (some extended APIs are available to OEM/MO so the process is slightly relaxed in that regard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is where some quality review comes in. It all depends on how good the standards are, and I dare say they will seem lower and lower as time passes. Hell, they're already admitting that OEMs will have relaxed standards.
[*]The application(s) and all future updates must be free of charge.
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Click to collapse
That's just silly. You'll get a bunch of lite software versions with next to zero shelf life instead of upgradable versions with marginal shelf life.
[*]The apps must launch without dependency on network availability.
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Click to collapse
what does this even mean? Does that mean no internet based app can be installed? All it really means is you have to quit gracefully if the network isn't available.
[*]The apps must persist through a "hard reset".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good thing, but primarily a reflection of back when flash memory was in short supply. Haven't run into it in forever.
[*]The apps must be updatable and revocable (!!!!) through the Marketplace.
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Click to collapse
Well, updateable is good...but revocable? Maybe removable would be more consumer friendly. Makes me think of the PS3.
[*]The apps must notify the user at first launch of any capabilities to be utilized and get user consent (to access compass, accelerometer, network, etc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I take from all of this is that
a) they want to drive more traffic through the marketplace.
b) they want to drive more traffic through Windows Certification
Good for the average consumer, great for Microsoft. Personally, the only point that has any value to me at all is a central marketplace. The rest of the bullets are ways for Microsoft to drive seperation between their brand name and many software vendor's crappy products.
ahhhha , sound interesting .
gguruusa said:
That is just brain damaged. Pre-loaded apps add clutter, but they also cut down on cost. Choose your poison. Pre-loading has little to do with with speed penalties, when done properly. Frankly, if roms have the same ancient architecture under WM7, then Microsoft really needs some technical leadership replaced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know, I wish MS enforced that same restriction on the Desktops OSes too. Nothing worse than getting a Dell or Sony PC full of preloaded gunk.
gguruusa said:
That's just silly. You'll get a bunch of lite software versions with next to zero shelf life instead of upgradable versions with marginal shelf life.
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Click to collapse
It's a big leap to come to that conclusion seeing as most software that ships with phone doesn't have additional charges. The restriction as I read it really means you just won't get a tonne of unwanted trial-ware on you shiny new phone.
Eoinoc said:
I don't know, I wish MS enforced that same restriction on the Desktops OSes too. Nothing worse than getting a Dell or Sony PC full of preloaded gunk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe, but that same preloaded gunk cut the price of your dell and sony. While I don't like preloaded gunk, I don't like expense either. What I do like is being able to make the decision myself of how much gunk vs expense I am willing to tolerate.
It's a big leap to come to that conclusion seeing as most software that ships with phone doesn't have additional charges. The restriction as I read it really means you just won't get a tonne of unwanted trial-ware on you shiny new phone.
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I agree it is target at no trial-ware. Any idea how people in the business world get around that? Lite versions of software (aka cripple-ware). Pay per use software. I'm sure there are other strategies. Frankly, if they enforce the ability to remove, I'm not that particular on how much gets pre-loaded. The fact of the matter is that the problem isn't how much crap comes with your phone; it is that you don't get to pick whether it is installed.
great find Da_G, so its XAB no more cabs
the0ne said:
great find Da_G, so its XAB no more cabs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XaB no.
XaP
tighoor said:
XaB no.
XaP
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Click to collapse
oops ..
How bad this is for the guys that dev here?
or... how good?
guessing .xap is short for XNA Application Package ?
vladimir2989 said:
guessing .xap is short for XNA Application Package ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
close, but no. In fact, it's actually a silverlight application package - it's been used for web stuff since silverlight released.
how to convert XAP to OEM/EXT package ?
I'm not sure what you mean by "OEM/EXT" package, but it's probably not possible. If you want to include an app with the phone, that *is* possible but the only way I know of is to include the XAPs in the ROM and then install them on first bootup. Probably not the best approach.
is there any hope of us getting a official File Manager? they said they werent going to allow a file manager but they said the same thing about multitasking and now they're allowing that has any thing been said about the possibility of them adding a file manager? and downloading mp3's and things from the web? they can limit the access to the file system if they wanted so i dont see the big deal about allowing us to have a file explorer
i know touch xplorer is out there but will there be a official one from microsoft? has anybody used touch xplorer? how is it compared to the old windows mobile file explorer?
I doubt it. And it isn't a task manager per se...more of an app switcher, so far as I can tell you can't kill the app from there. And I believe the multi-tasking is still iOS-esque in the sense that it tombstones still (except some apps are allowed to petition for run in the background [i.e. music apps]) and just restarts the app, but it does it much faster now.
I really don't understand this. If you want all that, go get an Android device. Wp7 is good because it's so lean and -easy-. Not that I mean that file managers aret hard to use. But I don't care to look at my files in a big list in a folder. Honestly, what's the point? I use my phone quickly, I put it back in my pocket. There are no apps taking up battery life or memory. For f**k's sake, stop with this ****.
deadwrong03 said:
is there any hope of us getting a official File Manager? they said they werent going to allow a file manager but they said the same thing about multitasking and now they're allowing that has any thing been said about the possibility of them adding a file manager? and downloading mp3's and things from the web? they can limit the access to the file system if they wanted so i dont see the big deal about allowing us to have a file explorer
i know touch xplorer is out there but will there be a official one from microsoft? has anybody used touch xplorer? how is it compared to the old windows mobile file explorer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not likely at all. A file explorer would open up the system to manipulation and allow things to be added that could compromise the integrity of the system. The multi-task'er won't harm the system and will be one of the best there is.
MartyLK said:
Not likely at all. A file explorer would open up the system to manipulation and allow things to be added that could compromise the integrity of the system. The multi-task'er won't harm the system and will be one of the best there is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, that is the best reason why file managers would not be implemented. However, I think with Nokia's entrance in WP7 scene and considering their stance on closed & limited use of phones, we are likely to see a few things "enabled" at least on the developer side.
They never said there wouldn't be multitasking, they merely said they hadn't worked out a way to do it they were happy with. It's always been a 'coming soon' feature.
I doubt we'll get a 'File Explorer' in the way you want it, but I can see in future more freedom in adding/removing music, photos and videos. I can see you being able to download things through the web browser to the appropriate hub (provided the phone recognises the content type). I also think at some point they will allow you to load files into 3rd party apps storage areas, for example the Adobe Reader.
sure haven't said:
I really don't understand this. If you want all that, go get an Android device. Wp7 is good because it's so lean and -easy-. Not that I mean that file managers aret hard to use. But I don't care to look at my files in a big list in a folder. Honestly, what's the point? I use my phone quickly, I put it back in my pocket. There are no apps taking up battery life or memory. For f**k's sake, stop with this ****.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that's all you use your phone for why are you even on xda?
MartyLK said:
Not likely at all. A file explorer would open up the system to manipulation and allow things to be added that could compromise the integrity of the system. The multi-task'er won't harm the system and will be one of the best there is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
compromise the integrity of the system, how ? by adding, moving, deleting .... files ? crap man, that's what computers are for is file manipulation !
a task manager will harm the system (or battery life mostly) more than a filer would ever dream. messing with already -really- nicely done scheduling is osmething that doesn't need to be done. ever.
my 2 cents
Good grief. Look people if you don't understand what files are you shouldn't be posting about them.
Files store information in a structured way.
Sometimes this information is intended for use with only one program. E.g. files storing user settings. It is best for these files to be isolated for use only by this program.
Sometimes this information is in a standard format, usable by any program. E.g. mp3, jpeg, rtf, html, wmv or most files you know about. These files should be usable to any program, with restrictions by user only.
WP7 is an irredemably flawed system until it has this ability.
Once it is there anyone can write a file manager. Microsoft doesn't need to provide one.
Once you have a file browser, you need to have assoiations so you can open files with applications. This opens a whole new world.
Personally, I would love have a section of the memory on WP7 device to use as a USB drive, just so you can view your files on the device (music, Videos, word/execl docs, etc) and have a explorer just for those files. The OS would not get touched and everyone is happy.
MS did not say they are not going to allow Multi-tasking, it's just not added yet.
orangekid said:
if that's all you use your phone for why are you even on xda?
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Click to collapse
Well that's not all I use it for. I also use it for company email, hotmail, games, music/radio apps, etc. But the point is I like it's simplicity and ease of use. You put it away and it's good to go. There's no making sure you have to close apps, etc.
As for why I'm on here, I joined a long time ago for windows mobile, and of course got awesome awesome apps and tweaks here. And when I got a wp7, I just came here to talk about it, since I love it. I don't think being a genius developer is a prerequisite of being here?
I think personally that the people who are clamouring for a file manager have completely missed the whole point of Windows Phone.
The point is, you don't NEED a file manager, because your files are managed for you.
If your life is incomplete without a file manager,
A) Get out more
or
B) Get an Android phone
Jim Coleman said:
I think personally that the people who are clamouring for a file manager have completely missed the whole point of Windows Phone.
The point is, you don't NEED a file manager, because your files are managed for you.
If your life is incomplete without a file manager,
A) Get out more
or
B) Get an Android phone
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Click to collapse
but if your downloading something like a .rar file or a zip file u cant move it where u want or anything. On my windows mobile i download music and other files in rar and zip folders all the time, and add it to my library and update it all the time without the use of a computer and this is what worries me the most about wp7
deadwrong03 said:
but if your downloading something like a .rar file or a zip file u cant move it where u want or anything. On my windows mobile i download music and other files in rar and zip folders all the time, and add it to my library and update it all the time without the use of a computer and this is what worries me the most about wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His point is that you shouldn't need to move it. A file should be associated with a program and it should reside in that program's memory space.
The whole File Manager aspect is archaic in a lot of respects. You shouldn't need to move it, you shouldn't need to extract the zip, you shouldn't need to add it to your library - it should be done for you.
I think the a appropriate request would be for Microsoft to allow 3rd parties to associate file types to their software - although this opens the system up to malicious softwares, it would allow developers to be much more creative.
Don't complain just because it isn't done the way you're used to - remember, this is no longer Windows Mobile
....is this what you are looking for?
http://www.1800pocketpc.com/2011/03/01/windows-phone-device-manager-video-preview.html#more-18329
FTC
deadwrong03 said:
but if your downloading something like a .rar file or a zip file u cant move it where u want or anything. On my windows mobile i download music and other files in rar and zip folders all the time, and add it to my library and update it all the time without the use of a computer and this is what worries me the most about wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such a scenario is not supported with WP7 now and probably never will be if MS sticks to their design principles with WP7. If such functionality is vital to you its probably best to consider another smartphone OS as WP7 will not be suitable for your needs.
Blade0rz said:
His point is that you shouldn't need to move it. A file should be associated with a program and it should reside in that program's memory space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's completely wrong. Only internal files that are understandable only to that application should reside in the applications isolated storage.
Actually his point was that Big Brother is looking after your files, and has chosen how they should be accessed; anyone who wants to do things differently should question whether he is a normal person.
The whole File Manager aspect is archaic in a lot of respects. You shouldn't need to move it, you shouldn't need to extract the zip, you shouldn't need to add it to your library - it should be done for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One reason is that folders are used for organization.
I think the a appropriate request would be for Microsoft to allow 3rd parties to associate file types to their software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is great, and it assumes that there are files independent of applications. That is the key point and it's what I'm arguing for.
although this opens the system up to malicious softwares, it would allow developers to be much more creative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it allows more things. There is no security risk however as only applications do things. Files don't do things. Applications can still be sandboxed (within silverlight) and access files. Of course a malicious application might delete files in common storage, but there are various ways of protecting against this, and it's an infinitessimal risk in practice.
DavidinCT said:
Once you have a file browser, you need to have assoiations so you can open files with applications. This opens a whole new world.
Personally, I would love have a section of the memory on WP7 device to use as a USB drive, just so you can view your files on the device (music, Videos, word/execl docs, etc) and have a explorer just for those files. The OS would not get touched and everyone is happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
Emailing Documents is a pain in the arse.
Blade0rz said:
His point is that you shouldn't need to move it. A file should be associated with a program and it should reside in that program's memory space.
The whole File Manager aspect is archaic in a lot of respects. You shouldn't need to move it, you shouldn't need to extract the zip, you shouldn't need to add it to your library - it should be done for you.
I think the a appropriate request would be for Microsoft to allow 3rd parties to associate file types to their software - although this opens the system up to malicious softwares, it would allow developers to be much more creative.
Don't complain just because it isn't done the way you're used to - remember, this is no longer Windows Mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so by this logic then they should be able to make a pocketrar app and have it available in the marketplace then correct? is it too far fetched for a app like that to be made?
Yesterday I stumbled across a curious error. Zune told me that I had reached the maximum allowed amount of media on my HD7. It's not that my SD card was full or so, there's still 15 GB left on it. I had about 3 GB of music, 2 GB of videos, 400 MB of podcasts and 5 GB of pictures on it. I removed the media and am currently synchronizing again, since I can't believe that WP7 limits the amount of media in any way. Did anybody else ever experience such an error?
Just in case somebody else may face the same situation as I did:
there doesn't seem to be a limit for the total amount of media on a device. The issue I had was caused by a folder containing about 12000 pictures. Apparently WP7 can't handle or doesn't allow that many pictures in one single folder. I solved it by making several child folders containing 3000 images each.
dkp1977 said:
Just in case somebody else may face the same situation as I did:
there doesn't seem to be a limit for the total amount of media on a device. The issue I had was caused by a folder containing about 12000 pictures. Apparently WP7 can't handle or doesn't allow that many pictures in one single folder. I solved it by making several child folders containing 3000 images each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello old friend ...
I see you find the solution ...12.000 files in one folder ??? wowwww.
Thanks for the tip anyway
colossus_r said:
Hello old friend ...
I see you find the solution ...12.000 files in one folder ??? wowwww.
Thanks for the tip anyway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi mate
Well, seems I was wrong. There really appears to be a limit to how many images you may have stored on the device. Even though I splitted the folders, it synchronized only 1300 images back to the phone. So around 10700 pictures remained unsynced. I'll try and contact winphonesupport via twitter. Maybe there's some workaround. I have tons of images of my family I use to carry around on my device. And I want to keep it that way.
I had a nice chat with the WinPhoneSupport on Twitter. It appears that Zune uses a database on each device which is quite limited concerning the amount of media it can handle. That means that - totally independent from the storage space left - it's possible that you just cannot sync anymore files if you have a huge amount of pictures on your device. I can't exactly tell what that limit is, but I had the error at about 35000 files. The support told me they'll escalate my report to the team, whatever that may mean. Let's hope they simply increase that limit.
dkp1977 said:
I had a nice chat with the WinPhoneSupport on Twitter. It appears that Zune uses a database on each device which is quite limited concerning the amount of media it can handle. That means that - totally independent from the storage space left - it's possible that you just cannot sync anymore files if you have a huge amount of pictures on your device. I can't exactly tell what that limit is, but I had the error at about 35000 files. The support told me they'll escalate my report to the team, whatever that may mean. Let's hope they simply increase that limit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes!! please get back to us with what transpires! what device are u using?
professorwol said:
yes!! please get back to us with what transpires! what device are u using?
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Click to collapse
I use a HTC HD7.
Btw, here is the error code: C1010032 (8004A211)
dkp1977 said:
Hi mate
Well, seems I was wrong. There really appears to be a limit to how many images you may have stored on the device. Even though I splitted the folders, it synchronized only 1300 images back to the phone. So around 10700 pictures remained unsynced. I'll try and contact winphonesupport via twitter. Maybe there's some workaround. I have tons of images of my family I use to carry around on my device. And I want to keep it that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Put your images on skydrive. Smartphones aren't media PCs, and I simply cannot even fathom a reason why anyone would want that many on a phone nevermind waste support's time dealing with a non-issue...
N8ter said:
Put your images on skydrive. Smartphones aren't media PCs, and I simply cannot even fathom a reason why anyone would want that many on a phone nevermind waste support's time dealing with a non-issue...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all it's my decision whether I want to carry my pictures with me on my device or put them somewhere on the net. Secondly having all those images stored on a server would require a fast internet connection if you want to quickly browse through the (sorted) images if you're looking for something specific. Sadly you don't always have such a fast connection. Third and last: I consider it an issue when the amount of media - whatever kind it may be - is limited by a database with a too low capacity rather than the storage.
N8ter said:
Put your images on skydrive. Smartphones aren't media PCs, and I simply cannot even fathom a reason why anyone would want that many on a phone nevermind waste support's time dealing with a non-issue...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he has enough space on the phone then why not keep the pics there? skydrive is not always accessible and could end up costing you if you don't have an unlimited data plan...
EDIT: Found a faster and cleaner way!
You guys who run tablets that have uber tiny amounts of storage (e.g. 32gb dell venue 8 pro) might want to do this as it will free up space used by apps that you probably don't even touch. You can always just install any you want to keep from the Windows store, but personally I think 8 apps are all crap (except Netflix.)
Click start > type 'powershell' (no quotes) > press ctrl+shift+enter > (say yes if it asks)
Type the following:
Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online
Get-AppXPackage | Remove-AppxPackage
Tada! No more useless built in Windows apps taking up disk space, and new user accounts don't start with a cluttered start menu.
If you're like me and you keep an autoconfigure batch script for new installations, you can accomplish the above with the following lines:
powershell -Command "Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online"
powershell -Command "Get-AppXPackage | Remove-AppxPackage"
Guessing this works with RT as well, but it's a sad OS that I wouldn't ever buy, so I can't test.
(Old post sticking around for archival purposes)
I never use these things. I don't like apps that force full screen when it is really unnecessary. I guess it makes sense for a touch screen, but for a desktop this is downright stupid, especially when you have a big monitor and like working with multiple things at once. Anyways, I noticed that these take up a gig of space, and I am on an SSD, so space is precious. Sadly, uninstalling them from the start menu doesn't actually delete them, in fact it's really no different at all from using the unpin from start option.
Simply navigating to that folder to delete them doesn't work. First you'll claim ownership via the UI, and then it will at least let you browse the folder. I tried taking it a step further and using the universal "take all" method from an admin prompt:
d:\windows\program files\> icacls windowsapps\* /T /C /Grant UsersOI)(CI)(MA)
It failed. So I figured, let's try rebooting to the command console and do the same thing. Success! Well, not really.
If you type del windowsapps, it pretends to delete them, but it doesn't actually do so. Microsoft is clever, they really went out of their way to make sure you keep them and like them! So I took it a step further, I tried the same thing from WinPE by booting from the install disk, hitting the repair button, and navigating to the command shell. Same result as above. Microsoft REALLY wants to make sure they remain intact.
Fortunately though, I have an ace up my sleeve. I booted a linux ISO, mounted the partition, and did an rm -rf WindowsApps, and lo and behold, its gone! You see, linux doesn't really care if you keep metro apps, it just does whatever you tell it to.
By the way, I did this inside of a VM just to make sure that it doesn't break anything, and so far, it doesn't appear to do so. The apps still remain in the start menu (if you didn't unpin them) but launching them just returns right back to the start menu. No worries, just unpin them and it will stay out of sight and out of mind.
Something confuses me though...the live tiles for these apps still actually work. At least, the live tiles for news, finance, and travel still work, but launching the app just drops you back to the start menu. My guess is that the live tile portion of the app runs in another process. Somebody who is more familiar with WinRT could chime in here. Also, the useless windows store and some important things like the desktop app and the "pc settings" app (aka metro control panel) remains intact, so no issues there.
Anyways, I'd like to figure out a way to delete these while windows is still running, that way I can automate doing so when I install windows. Any ideas? My current thought is to remove them from the install.wim, but it's kind of a PITA and often something goes wrong when I try to muck with that.
Thanks for the info. I won't be able to do the research until the weekend, but in searching for windows 8 (non-Microsoft) themes, I found info on a program (I hate that all of a sudden all programs are being called 'apps') which lets you take (for real) ownership if system files. The info where I ran into it's usage was because Windows 7 and 8 need either hacked system files (guess having a hacked 7 with legit license was a great idea) or a special program to load a custom theme.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Out of curiosity, what built-in apps did you find to be un-deleteable? Removing the built-in apps that I didn't use (Finance, News, etc.) was easy; just right-click or flick downward (to select the tile) then select Uninstall. Leftover files in the WindowsApps dir could be removed.
GoodDayToDie said:
Out of curiosity, what built-in apps did you find to be un-deleteable? Removing the built-in apps that I didn't use (Finance, News, etc.) was easy; just right-click or flick downward (to select the tile) then select Uninstall. Leftover files in the WindowsApps dir could be removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The built in apps that it places on the start menu when you first log in to Windows 8. It prevents you from deleting them, because then new accounts won't see the apps, and it forces them on to the start menu by default.
You can delete them from Start easily enough, if for some reason you find their presence there offensive. You can also delete the updated versions from the device. The basline (1.2) versions are, I assume, what you are complaining about... meh. If you want to bang your head against this, go ahead. I get what you're asking for now, though I really don't understand why. Besides, full-screen or not, some of the "Metro" apps are pretty good, especially a few of the games (which are frequently FS anyhow). It's worth keeping the store around for free game downloads IMO... but I think we've already established that our opinions differ on how to use Win8.
GoodDayToDie said:
You can delete them from Start easily enough, if for some reason you find their presence there offensive. You can also delete the updated versions from the device. The basline (1.2) versions are, I assume, what you are complaining about... meh. If you want to bang your head against this, go ahead. I get what you're asking for now, though I really don't understand why. Besides, full-screen or not, some of the "Metro" apps are pretty good, especially a few of the games (which are frequently FS anyhow). It's worth keeping the store around for free game downloads IMO... but I think we've already established that our opinions differ on how to use Win8.
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Click to collapse
You're thinking of using the "uninstall" option from the start menu. That does NOT delete them, it just removes all references to them. They still reside on the hard disk and consume disk space. On my 120GB SSD on my laptop, every gig counts. Why leave them there when they are doing nothing at all? No banging your head involved, just boot up linux, rm -rf WinApps, problem solved.
Anyways, last I checked there were approximately zero AAA titles in the windows store. In fact, I've yet to see any windows app do anything that can't already be done better in a web browser. I'm not particularly impressed with solitaire collection, pinball, toy soldiers...and ooh mahjong, the game to end all games. The only one even remotely interesting is hydro thunder, in which case they ought to call it Retro instead of Metro.
Rakeesh_j said:
I never use these things. I don't like apps that force full screen when it is really unnecessary. I guess it makes sense for a touch screen, but for a desktop this is downright stupid, especially when you have a big monitor and like working with multiple things at once. Anyways, I noticed that these take up a gig of space, and I am on an SSD, so space is precious. Sadly, uninstalling them from the start menu doesn't actually delete them, in fact it's really no different at all from using the unpin from start option.
Simply navigating to that folder to delete them doesn't work. First you'll claim ownership via the UI, and then it will at least let you browse the folder. I tried taking it a step further and using the universal "take all" method from an admin prompt:
d:\windows\program files\> icacls windowsapps\* /T /C /Grant UsersOI)(CI)(MA)
It failed. So I figured, let's try rebooting to the command console and do the same thing. Success! Well, not really.
If you type del windowsapps, it pretends to delete them, but it doesn't actually do so. Microsoft is clever, they really went out of their way to make sure you keep them and like them! So I took it a step further, I tried the same thing from WinPE by booting from the install disk, hitting the repair button, and navigating to the command shell. Same result as above. Microsoft REALLY wants to make sure they remain intact.
Fortunately though, I have an ace up my sleeve. I booted a linux ISO, mounted the partition, and did an rm -rf WindowsApps, and lo and behold, its gone! You see, linux doesn't really care if you keep metro apps, it just does whatever you tell it to.
By the way, I did this inside of a VM just to make sure that it doesn't break anything, and so far, it doesn't appear to do so. The apps still remain in the start menu (if you didn't unpin them) but launching them just returns right back to the start menu. No worries, just unpin them and it will stay out of sight and out of mind.
Something confuses me though...the live tiles for these apps still actually work. At least, the live tiles for news, finance, and travel still work, but launching the app just drops you back to the start menu. My guess is that the live tile portion of the app runs in another process. Somebody who is more familiar with WinRT could chime in here. Also, the useless windows store and some important things like the desktop app and the "pc settings" app (aka metro control panel) remains intact, so no issues there.
Anyways, I'd like to figure out a way to delete these while windows is still running, that way I can automate doing so when I install windows. Any ideas? My current thought is to remove them from the install.wim, but it's kind of a PITA and often something goes wrong when I try to muck with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to remove them from a windows install image
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/37039-Remove-Metro-appz-and-default-associations-to-them
phailyoor said:
If you want to remove them from a windows install image
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/37039-Remove-Metro-appz-and-default-associations-to-them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, thanks!
You could had taken ownership of the WindowsApps folder and delete it, that's what I did.
Rakeesh_j said:
You're thinking of using the "uninstall" option from the start menu. That does NOT delete them, it just removes all references to them. They still reside on the hard disk and consume disk space. On my 120GB SSD on my laptop, every gig counts. Why leave them there when they are doing nothing at all? No banging your head involved, just boot up linux, rm -rf WinApps, problem solved.
Anyways, last I checked there were approximately zero AAA titles in the windows store. In fact, I've yet to see any windows app do anything that can't already be done better in a web browser. I'm not particularly impressed with solitaire collection, pinball, toy soldiers...and ooh mahjong, the game to end all games. The only one even remotely interesting is hydro thunder, in which case they ought to call it Retro instead of Metro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, so a game is only good if it has AAA backing?
Konstantinos said:
You could had taken ownership of the WindowsApps folder and delete it, that's what I did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried that, even used some command line stuff that break all file locks and ensure that the current user has full control over the files. It would let you delete them, even go through and say it deleted them, but when you look in the directory again, they are still there.
link68759 said:
Oh, so a game is only good if it has AAA backing?
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Click to collapse
No. My current favorites are both indie titles, and are not AAA. Those being Natural-Selection 2, and League of Legends.
For Google Chrome, there are MORE and BETTER games than in the Windows store, and to a lesser extent, Firefox as well. Yep, web browsers have better games than the Windows store.
Every single game in the windows store is either old or just plain crap. I played Angry Birds on a CELL PHONE over a YEAR ago. These are all casual games, not games that you sit down for a marathon session to play. If the windows store is your idea of a good place to get games, then I dare you to go to your friends and say "Hey guys, let's all go to my house and play some reversi and then some tick tack toe!" and see what kind of reaction you get. Or how about one better, ask them to bring their PC's over for a windows 8 lan party, I'm sure they'll get right on that one.
The two games I listed above are legit desktop titles. Windows 8 games are not. In fact, as I've said numerous times, there isn't a single windows store app that does anything that isn't already done better in a browser.
So I'm doing the ol' nuclear option of a reformat for the windows 8.1 update, and I just updated OP to include some new info I found (Maybe common knowledge at this point after 18 months of futzing around with 8? Who knows, just something I discovered on my own a few minutes ago while tinkering with powershell.)
Really neat and really clean compared to the other way.
I use Embedded edition that doesn't include preinstalled metro apps (only IE, skydrive and photo viewer are included)
441Excelsior said:
I use Embedded edition that doesn't include preinstalled metro apps (only IE, skydrive and photo viewer are included)
Click to expand...
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windows embedded is not windows 8...
windows 8.1 Embedded Industry Pro is the same as Windows 8.1 Pro
here is screen of my desktop
441Excelsior said:
I use Embedded edition that doesn't include preinstalled metro apps (only IE, skydrive and photo viewer are included)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's effectively what you get when you run the two commands I listed. For whatever reason, skydrive and photo viewer aren't possible to remove. In fact they don't even appear to reside in the WindowsApps folder...I'm not even sure where they reside.
ok but true reason why I use embedded edition is that I got free product key from MS DreamSpark
This is guide made for Windows 8, but can be used with any version of Windows. The options might just vary a little.
**This guide is meant to provide a way to improve performance on your computer. This is in no way, shape, or form, a fool-proof method (although i tried to make it fool-proof). I will not be responsible for any damage done to your computer by using any of these tools in this thread.**
This guide will show you ways that I have found to optimize windows to get the most you can out of any computer. Some of these tools come with windows, while others I will provide links for your convenience.
To make some of this easier, i have created a '.bat' script for your use.
HDD – Hard Drive
Free up space: Using Windows Tools
This first tool comes with windows. It is the disk cleaner.
The easiest way to find this tool is to go to the start page and type in: “cleanmgr.exe” and click on that.
This takes a little while to sort through your hard drive. Here are the categories that I recommend cleaning:
Code:
[LIST]
[*]Downloaded Program Files
[*]Temporary Internet Files
[*]Recycle Bin
[*]System error memory dump files
[*]Temporary files
[*]Thumbnails
[*]Any of the user error reporting categories if you want
[/LIST]
There is the option to clean system files, which requires administrator privileges. Here are the additional categories that I recommend you clean:
Code:
[LIST]
[*]Previous Windows Installation(s)
[*]Windows Update cleanup
[/LIST]
Depending on how much data is going to be erased, this may take awhile. This tool also tends to use a lot of CPU
Free up space: Using CCleaner
This second tool is not part of windows, but is simple and easy to use. It is called CCleaner. This is a program that has a lot of options that are explained in the different sections (Registry)
- Link: CCleaner
For this category, you will be using the cleaner section which is opened by default when you open the program.
Everything that is checked, I recommend keeping checked. You may choose whatever you want though.
1st click analyze and let it sort through your HDD
It may pause and ask you if you want to force close Chrome or any other conflicting program. Go ahead and let it force close them.
2nd look at what it is going to remove a second time and make sure it’s all stuff that you don’t care about. After that, you may click clean.
There is a third tool that is under the “tools” section in CCleaner. It is the driver wiper.
When you go to this section, you will only wipe the free space on your HDD.
The 35 passes option is a little overkill. Feel free to choose what ever option you want though.
If you have an SSD, DO NOT do the 35 passes. this will only shorten the SSD's life. See more info regarding this in post #4
This could take many hours to complete so make sure you have time.
This also may not give you a whole lot of space, but it should give you some.
Make your disk load files faster:
The major thing that many people recommend to do often, is to defragment the HDD. For people with SSD's, this is not needed
This program is found by going to the start menu and typing in “defrag” in the settings section.
When this opens, click on your HDD, and then click on analyze. It will then scan your HDD and tell you the amount of your HDD is fragmented.
You then click on optimize and this process will take a while as it does about 13 passes over the HDD
Registry
*For this procedure, you will be using CCleaner again. For those who skipped the HDD section, link for this program is in that section.*
In CCleaner, click and on the registry section and then click: “scan for issues”
After it scans, you can take a look at what it has found before it removes them. You can also choose what to delete.
Click fix issues, and this is when it will ask to backup the registry. I HIGHLY recommend doing this.
It will then ask you one by one what you want to do with each entry. You also have the option to fix all issues with one click
Uninstalling programs
For uninstalling programs, the windows uninstaller does not do it for me. I use revo uninstaller
- Link: Revo Uninstaller
This program is pretty self-explanatory but it does more than just uninstalling the program. After the program is uninstalled revo will scan your HDD and your registry to find anything that it believes it left over from the program.
BEWARE: make sure you choose wisely what you delete. Revo does make a system restore point before it uninstalls the program, but this is not a fool-proof method.
**On windows 8, there is a small bug, as far as I know, that when scanning all of this, it will use a decent amount of your CPU.**
*If any of you have ideas on how I can make this guide better whether it is by adding methods, or just clarifying some of these directions as this is the first time that I have written a reference guide like this. Any help is greatly appreciated. :fingers-crossed:
Thanks:
Microsoft: for Windows
Piriform: for CCleaner
VSRevo Group: for Revo Uninstaller
BillP Studios: for WinPatrol (Next post)
GoodDayToDie: for giving some major tips.
Awidawad: letting me use his code as a guide
Tips:
GoodDayToDie: Post #4
SixSixSevenSeven: Post #5
Tips on how to make your computer start-up faster.
Programs start-up
Using task manager
In task manager, there are a ton of options that can be used to help performance. This is especially true with the new task manager that
Microsoft has pushed out with Windows 8.
For the majority of people, when you open up task manager, it will look like this:
To get the full format of task manager, which you will need for this process, you will need to click on the button at the bottom that says: “More Details” and it will open the full version of task manager.
Now to disable start-up programs:
At the top where all the tabs are, click on the “Start-up” tab and you should see something like this:
Now all you have to do is click on the process that you do not want starting with your computer, and click the “Disable” button. Here are some processes that I recommend but you can choose whatever you want.
Code:
[LIST]
[*]Adobe CS6 Service Manager
[*] Apple Push
[*] Bing Desktop Application
[*] Evernote Clipper
[*] Hamachi Client Application
[*] iTunesHelper
[*] KiesPDLR
[*]Logitech Download Assistant
[*]Quicktime Task
This is only what I have disabled. You may disable whatever you want because there are no system tasks that are there to disable.
**That does not meant that you can disable whatever you want because that might cause some programs to not work**
[*]Using WinPatrol
[/LIST]
This program does more than just control start-up programs. This section is only going to talk about the start-up section.
This section of the program, in essence, is a more advanced program to deal with start-up programs.
- Link: WinPatrol
After you install WinPatrol, go to the "Startup Programs" section. It should look like this:
Run through the list of programs and find ones you want to disable. My list of recommended programs is listed under the task manager section.
NOTE: If you do not know if what you are going to disable is going to effect any of your programs, then I would recommend using the "Disable" button. If you KNOW that it WON'T effect any program, then feel free to hit the "remove" button
This program does not only take care of start-up programs. There are many other features such as Active taks and IE Helpers that i will not be covering in this thread. I do however, recommend that you look at them.
Services:
Using Service Manager:
This is going to show you how to use the service manager that is built into Windows to disable some services form starting automatically with your computer. For this, you will not be disabling any services completely, but rather just have them set to manual which will allow them to run when needed.
Start by opening the start page and typing "services" into the settings section. you should end up with a screen that looks like this:
Click on "View Local Services"
Right-click on a service such as "Apple Mobile Device", click properties, and change the startup type from Auto, to Manual.
Choose other services and do the same.
WARNING: I highly advise you NOT to disable any system services as this could cause problems. I am at no fault for what you disable.
Tips from users:
GoodDayToDie said:
tip of my own: there's a bunch of Windows Services which are enabled by default because *somebody* might need them, but which are really unnecessary on most computers. Some good examples include the Bluetooth service (if you don't have or don't use Bluetooth), Encrypting File System (if you don't use EFS), Print Spooler (if you never print), and so on. These can be disabled from the Services management console (services.msc, or find Services using the Start search). I actually recommend just turning them from "Automatic" down to "Manual"; this way, if you ever do want to use such a thing, it's possible that it will still work when you try to invoke it. As with other tweaks, do bear in mind what you've changed and watch for any potential system problems; if you're unsure, either revert the change or don't make it in the first place. Changing certain system services will make the system nigh-unusable. Also, be aware that changing many of these services really won't help much; it might shave fractions of a second each off of the bootup time of the system and/or save a few megs of RAM, but an idle service really isn't that big a threat to system performance if it's not coded completely horribly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SixSixSevenSeven said:
In almost a year on win7 I never had to manually invoke defrag, whenever I went to and analysed the disk it was only ever 1%, on the 80gb hard disk I had at the time its an insignificant amount of dragged data and I ignored it. I got windows 8 in November and so far it still says 0%.
I would recommend at least checking the values though, especially for external drives (my one hit 20%, think it was unplugged during windows scheduled defrags)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the_scotsman said:
Windows 8 knows if an SSD is being used. If it sees one, it won't allow you to "defrag". it will still allow you to "optimise" the drive. What this does is to manage TRIM to help clean the drives.
Look up TRIM if you want to know more. But do not disable the scheduled "optimisation" of an SSD drive as it's not a defrag, it does other things.
More info here: http://www.helpwithwindows.com/Windows8/Windows-8-on-Solid-State-Drive.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One last one just in case
also if this is in the wrong section, can someone please let me know. Thanks :good:
this guide is also a work-in-progress and no where near complete. again, feel free to offer whatever advice you have
A couple things to point out here, quickly:
* Don't try to do a massive overwrite a la CCleaner if you have a SSD. It will do nothing except use up a small portion of the disk's lifetime. SSD logical sectors are dynamically mapped to physical NAND blocks by a wear-leveling algorithm; overwriting the same address on the "disk" 35 times probably just means burning one write operation (out of tens or hundreds of thousand each, mind you) on 35 different chunks of NAND memory. Trying to read the "erased" data back in after even a single overwrite is quite futile, though.
* Manual defragmentation shouldn't be necessary on Win7 or later, unless somebody has disabled or otherwise tampered with the automatically scheduled task that runs it in the background. If you never leave the computer on except when it's in active use, though, it might be necessary. Also, SSDs don't benefit from defragmentation in any meaningful way - the speed boost is completely trivial given the lack of seek times, but again it burns a bit of NAND lifetime - although Windows should be smart enough to figure this out on its own.
A tip of my own: there's a bunch of Windows Services which are enabled by default because *somebody* might need them, but which are really unnecessary on most computers. Some good examples include the Bluetooth service (if you don't have or don't use Bluetooth), Encrypting File System (if you don't use EFS), Print Spooler (if you never print), and so on. These can be disabled from the Services management console (services.msc, or find Services using the Start search). I actually recommend just turning them from "Automatic" down to "Manual"; this way, if you ever do want to use such a thing, it's possible that it will still work when you try to invoke it. As with other tweaks, do bear in mind what you've changed and watch for any potential system problems; if you're unsure, either revert the change or don't make it in the first place. Changing certain system services will make the system nigh-unusable. Also, be aware that changing many of these services really won't help much; it might shave fractions of a second each off of the bootup time of the system and/or save a few megs of RAM, but an idle service really isn't that big a threat to system performance if it's not coded completely horribly.
+1 on defrag. In almost a year on win7 I never had to manually invoke defrag, whenever I went to and analysed the disk it was only ever 1%, on the 80gb hard disk I had at the time its an insignificant amount of dragged data and I ignored it. I got windows 8 in November and so far it still says 0%.
I would recommend at least checking the values though, especially for external drives (my one hit 20%, think it was unplugged during windows scheduled defrags)
A note on freeing up space (which is a good idea!):
goldflame09 said:
I recommend that you use the “very complex overwrite "35 passes" option.
If you have an SSD, DO NOT do the 35 passes. this will only shorten the SSD's life. See more info regarding this in post #4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
35 passes is also overkill on hard disks. Most government standards only require 1-3 passes. Just one pass is sufficient to prevent data recovery via software - there are probably only a handful of labs in the world which can recover data after this (by removing the platters from the drive and reading the bits off).
You also don't need to do this at all if you use bitlocker or truecrypt to encrypt the drive.
Updated: added service management to second post
Windows 8 knows if an SSD is being used. If it sees one, it won't allow you to "defrag". it will still allow you to "optimise" the drive. What this does is to manage TRIM to help clean the drives.
Look up TRIM if you want to know more. But do not disable the scheduled "optimisation" of an SSD drive as it's not a defrag, it does other things.
More info here: http://www.helpwithwindows.com/Windows8/Windows-8-on-Solid-State-Drive.html
the_scotsman said:
Windows 8 knows if an SSD is being used. If it sees one, it won't allow you to "defrag". it will still allow you to "optimise" the drive. What this does is to manage TRIM to help clean the drives.
Look up TRIM if you want to know more. But do not disable the scheduled "optimisation" of an SSD drive as it's not a defrag, it does other things.
More info here: http://www.helpwithwindows.com/Windows8/Windows-8-on-Solid-State-Drive.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added to tips from users section
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Updated: Added '.bat' script to make this as easy as possible for all of you
will be adding description soon for extras that i have included