Devs: How much GPS information can Sprint access? - Samsung Epic 4G Touch

Hi developers and friends,
Seeing as our wonderful E4GT developers were on the bleeding edge of Carrier IQ and generally seem to be really knowledgeable about our phone compared to a lot of other communities on XDA (no diss intended), I figured this would be a good place to ask. You may or may not have seen this article already:
Police Are Using Phone Tracking as a Routine Tool
(nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us/police-tracking-of-cellphones-raises-privacy-fears.html - can't hyperlink it due to post count, sorry)
I know there's no way to prevent tower-based geolocation, but the article (and the associated ACLU documents) also mentioned that some police departments have successfully subpoenaed GPS lat/long information from carriers. From what you guys know, does Android still send any sort of fine location data back to Sprint/Google now that Carrier IQ is gone? (Don't worry about WiFi location inference stuff)
Also, general question to Sprint techs willing to fathom a guess: Does Sprint store enough data to be able to triangulate (trilaterate?) location postmortem past general tower radius? My hunch is to say that call quality data would only include the tower(s) primarily responsible for a call or roamed to, but I'm not nearly savvy enough in regards to cell networks to know if that's anywhere near accurate. (I've been lead to believe that tracking in general is slightly more theoretically complex on CDMA-based networks than UMTS/GSM - not sure if that's right either)
Don't worry, I'm not a serial killer or anything - but the question perked my interest.
(Figured I would ask here since it doesn't seem to fit well into the typical Q&A fare and since this is also discussion-worthy too; feel free to move if you disagree, mods)

If I really wanted to be "off the grid" either use a prepaid phone where personal info isn't linked to you or use land lines.
I dont think google or sprint would just hand over gps locations with out some kind of warrent, but then again if you have warrent that the police or FBI are going to those lengths to find you, your already in deep doodoo.

phatmanxxl said:
If I really wanted to be "off the grid" either use a prepaid phone where personal info isn't linked to you or use land lines.
I dont think google or sprint would just hand over gps locations with out some kind of warrent, but then again if you have warrent that the police or FBI are going to those lengths to find you, your already in deep doodoo.
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Unfortunately it depends on your state laws, some places have already gotten some of the carriers to hand over location info without a warrant. They had even gone so far as to plant their own GPS trackers on vehicles surreptitiously without a warrant. It has caused a pretty big stink among privacy advocates. The way this country is going with spying on its own citizens I'm tempted to buy an emf reader to sweep my house and car for bugs :-S
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Am i the only one that doesn't care if the government or sprint know about how much porn i look at or how much weed i smoke or what other random bull**** they might figure out from my phone? Lol Maybe I'm just blessed that none of my crimes are worth the effort it would take to bust me for them

Specialksg1 said:
Am i the only one that doesn't care if the government or sprint know about how much porn i look at or how much weed i smoke or what other random bull**** they might figure out from my phone? Lol Maybe I'm just blessed that none of my crimes are worth the effort it would take to bust me for them
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Its not that I care they know what I do, its more the principal of them trying to take my GD constitutional rights away, if I wanted to be monitored 24/7 I'd move to effing China or N.Korea
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Related

Wtf?

Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Hey man, I can honestly say that I think this is complete bull! Haha. Why would they take away the boot loader?? Thats aa main trouble shoot tool in its self, and if this does happen. I highly doubt that it would stop root. We would be able to get past it.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Read the thread....even if they do get around it there will be back ups that will kill service to any rooted device. Idk if this is true but its interesting
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
We have wayy too many smart devs to let this happen. I'm not worried
This is a rumor from ONE source. People have been getting all upset over this but until anything actually happens, it's just that. A rumor.
Besides, if Verizon is worried about people tethering for free, it would make more sense to charge for data on a tiered level like they're probably going to start doing anyway.
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
byrong, thank you!
byrong said:
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
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Click to collapse
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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donnyp1 said:
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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I don't necesarilly believe it will happen but is it plausible? yes....You can't deny that major carriers and development teams have more knowledge, experience, and capability then ANY developer on xda. Look at the past. Apple actually brought out a lawsuit trying to keep people from jailbreaking devices. So while we may all sit around and laugh at the idea and while it is just a bunch of hear say at this point, it is definitely plausible. And i do agree that it may just be easier to do tiered data plans, but then that kind of screws over verizon's customers who actually pay for tether. So you can kind of understand why they wouldn't want to continue to move on that route. Both options are viable and neither of them appears to be any sort of threat right now. As stated above, right now it's just a bunch of threads linking back to other threads linking back to other threads. And I don't know how much there is to believe about it but none the less it definitely could happen.... But hopefully nothing will happen....I mean come on manufacturers hardly keep their devices up to date...2.3 has already been dropped on how many devices and we're still waiting for it. People are on to sense 3.0 and we still have 1.0 on our stock rom. If they decide to kill the independent dev community then they better start dropping crazy updates with extremely customizable roms. It just seems like too much work that would ultimately end in manufacturers and providers losing money. Sooo ya. probs not gonna happen
If people didnt abuse tether, it wouldnt be an issue. So much free wifi, i cant think of last time i tethered. I also actually pay for internet at hone, yet i know several who tether for home internet.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Verizon would be foolish to do this. People are attracted to their service due to the freedom of android...
elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a flame, it's just the truth... There really is not a whole lot to be concerned about. It's out of our control so whatever happens happens, we'll have to deal with it when it shows up, IF it shows up. But why be so concerned about it?
Having said that, as far as rooting goes, they SHOULD embrace developers and allow us to use our roms and stuff legally... but I think that there is stuff set in writing and signatures that are still in effect for the time being. I see them never allowing us to root, but compromising by letting us set our own defaults and not having to use their proprietary carrier BS eventually. Whatever we make our phones into (right now) creates a market, and where there's a market there's money. We'll either have the perfect phone or the option to make the perfect phone, just like we can buy the perfect PC or make the perfect PC. Well, at least as far as software goes.
I personally believe we'll ultimately get what we want to the point where rooting is useless as far as ordinary everyday users go. But right now we don't know what this whole smartphone craze is or what its gonna be when it finally plateaus, and neither do the manufacturers & carriers so they can't exactly crack whips on our backs for doing all of this yet.
Besides, the hackers that make these roms make the phones better. They turn us into brand and carrier loyalists. The Optimus, Galaxy S, Xperia, HTC & Droids all have followings for different reasons, and the developers are the most rabid and loyal of them all. They might not NEED us, but we're still pretty freaking important.
elixir911911 said:
Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Okay I'm going to be as nice as I can about this. It's not true. We've had so many threads about this the threads are starting to scare people. Please stop. I don't mean to be rude to you. There is not on piece of solid evidence and I've talked to soooo many people it's not even funny. Don't buy it.
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
ucluglee said:
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
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+1 true
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Can devs work on preventing Celebrite UFED from violating privacy rights?

Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)
I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
Eh if you are caught doing something stupid then yes it MIGHT be necessary. But if its abuse then we have a right to defend yourself.
I'm pretty sure that there are certain criteria for it to work. It was in a thread somewhere. When I find it ill edit my post.
I think they were:
Must have a sd card inserted
Usb debug must be on
*something else I can't remember*
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
mmcgrat6 said:
Just learned about the Celebrite UFED device currently available and in use by law enforcement (Link listed below). The UFED connects to mobile devices (indeed the Epic) and extracts every bit of data - to include previously deleted data potentially. This means all text messages, passwords, browser history, banking information, Google accounts, Facebook, etc. will all be rendered as part of the public record once judicial precedings commence. And even if charges are dismissed and the record is sealed, the integrity of the extracted information has been compromised and cannot be viewed as safe.
So I am asking if any dev's might be able to restore the fourth amendment constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure through the magic that ya'll do. For those who might be thinking they have nothing to hide and this would only benefit criminals, keep in mind that silently giving up civil liberties is a slippery slope. It starts off small, but (conspiracy kook sounding, I know) turns into opening up your nightstands for government types before bed. While I support the need for efforts by law enforcement in assuring the safety of our communities, I DO NOT support trickery and loopholes around the judicial process like the overtly invasive Celebrite UFED technology. I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this issue and if anyone with more knowledge in this are than I will step forward to secure our privacy and peace of mind.
cellebrite-com (forum won't allow me to post actual link)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, "be part of the public record" is not true. Only evidence pertaining to the case at hand may be submitted in to some form of record. So while yes, there will be a person(s) scouring all of the information, anything irrelevant (ie, not usable as evidence) would not be saved.
With this in mind, how would this constitute illegal search and seizure? You said so yourself "once judicial precedings begin"; such as a search warrant. So there is no breaking of the constitution there...and furthermore, once a search warrant is obtained, anything of yours that falls within the scope of the warrant is subject to search. So, to me, this is no different than if a cop read through every page of your diary looking for evidence. Because the unneccessary stuff will not be saved.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.
Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
Top Nurse said:
I don't have a problem with this at all. If your stupid enough to do criminal stuff on your phone then you should go to jail. In actuality the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a cell phone is not constitutionally protected via 4th Ammendment. I think someone was arrested and they looked at his messages and found someone else who conspired to commit a felony. They charged him as well....
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
My concern is not for criminals to be allowed to freely conduct their activities under protection from prosecution. And while cellphones have been ruled as not protected under the fourth amendment, handsets like the Epic interconnect to provide access into far more areas for personal data than a simple cellphone. in fact the courts have ruled that email, for example, IS protected by the fourth amendment. What this device represents is a "work around" into individual privacy.
More and more we as a nation have been relinquishing our privacy rights in support of protecting our safety and security. However, it's been almost a decade of this trend and the nation has been evolving ever since toward everybody knowing your business. We might not have anything to hide, but we must also have legal protections for cases which involve potentially corrupt individuals from abusing the systems which allow them use of this invasive device.
I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.
excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?
mmcgrat6 said:
excellent point, squshy 7. But "part of the public record" was not meant to be taken as the only reason for concern. While protocol calls for the data to be disposed of if nothing happens, we don't live in a perfect world. Evidence is lost. Incorrect limbs get amputated. People forget to do things or believe something important has already been done. And corruption among those of authority can and does happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So why let it happen needlessly in the first place?
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Honestly dude, I've come to terms with the fact that mistrusting everyone in charge for fear of corruption is unfounded. Its actually much simpler than that.
Most humans are idiots.
Hence our messed up world. Not evil. Just stupidity.
Once one realizes that, it becomes alot easier. Because then you'll see that there is truly nothing you can do about it.
Lol. Im a misanthrope to the max
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Deleted 10 char
Benjamin Franklin said:
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
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And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.
Censura_Umbra said:
I agree, police officers are surprisingly uninformed of Supreme court law. They usually don't care until it affects them, like when the exclusionary rule told them "Hey, wanna **** these defendants over? Well now their free, good job asshole."
Plus there are crooked cops that could use your passwords they find on your phone (even if you aren't doing anything wrong on it) and sign in to your Facebook and IM to find out more info about you. Is this okay? If so then go to a communist state where you aren't allowed to have secrets from the government.
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Click to collapse
Why are you putting illegal stuff on your Facebook? What's there that can't be retrieved via birth records, driver's licenses, and marriage certificates...all of which are already in the government's records?
A crooked cop can plant any kind of evidence they want to incriminate you. It doesn't have to be on your phone. Heck it's probably not even worth their effort.
Any decent lawyer can get that stuff tossed anyway. If anything, it's harder than ever to successfully prosecute someone, not easier.
And really, as resource strapped as police departments are, they're not looking at you at all unless you ARE doing something illegal. Don't use the word "wrong" because it's not necessarily the same as "illegal."
Censura_Umbra said:
And that sums up MY opinion on this matter, but really, just look at my previous post and just keep your phone locked.
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You confuse freedom with anarchy. You're free to do what you want. You're also free to accept any and all consequences.
Censura_Umbra said:
I am actually a law student, and this is illegal as long as you have a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie: YOU HAVE A PASSWORD) As long as you have a lock password it is illegal. Also, I have used cellebrites and they don't usually work anyway unless the phone is unlocked, so just keep your phone locked and if an officer asks you to unlock it, tell them to get a search warrant.
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This. The cellebrites we use at Sprint at least, require the device to be unlocked(unless the Android has USB debugging on already, in which case I believe it can bypass the lock). If a blackberry has a password on it, it pops up on the machine requesting you enter the password on the machine.
So technically it can "bypass" your lock, but only if you enter the lock on the cellebrite machine.
LOL the cellbrites carriers have obviously were only meant to transfer contacts, pictures, etc. By error, Ive been to extract this information even when the phone was locked. Im sure they can program a machine to bypass all of that.
Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new. As long as you dont do some stupid ****, then you have nothing to worry about. Anyway, most of us on here have rooted phones. You know rooted phones exposes your passwords, etc right?
socos25 said:
Wow aren't we ignorant. If it were that simple. How many people who were on death row have they let out because years later they find evidence that clears them. How many times hagve you heard of someone spending years in jail for rape to find DNA evidence clears them?
Unfortunately people in law enforcement are human beings flawed like the rest of us. If they can read the data who is to say they can't put incrimintating data on just because they don't like you?
I think it is easy to make blanket ignorant statements like this totally ignoring reality unless you are the one who is wronged.
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Click to collapse
Not ignorant by any shape of the imagination, as I have experience on both sides of the law. As someone said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the other ones that have been tried." Nothing is perfect and innocent people may be jailed or executed. Not saying that is good, but that it works most of the time...which is why I live in the USA.
If you have lived as long as I have then you would know that things go up and down (conservative & liberal) in this country. Now we are in a conservative swing and we do need some balance as we move away from the days of coddling criminals and granting more rights to them than the rest of us get.
Sent from Bonsai 7.0.3
I'd like to say this..
1) your locks are pointless if you have clockworkmod installed...as they can just backup your rom lol..as cwm has no password protect option...
2) You can always restore data...1 wipe i never enough..I had my sd cards erased a few times...I was able to recover 100% the contents..to do a proper wipe you gotta wipe 7 times using 0's method and alternating 1's and 0's..to note..this isnt going to make the data unrecoverable..just more expensive to recover...the point in wiping data is not that its unrecoverable but wipe it enough so that it isnt worth it financially for the other side to recover it.
b15love said:
Uh and yes EVERY american must give up some freedom for security. This is nothing new.
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Click to collapse
actually, this IS new, and those that believe the above quoted 'line' deserve neither freedom or security.
For example, is it ok for a police officer who does a traffic stop for improper lane change (for example) to snatch out the cellebrite device and ask you to hand over your cell phone ? NO.. without a search warrant or probable cause (at the very least) he has no right or authority to dig around in your phone.
If you were just involved in an accident, then i could see the possibility of scanning your phone to determine if you were texting while driving, thus contributing to the accident. Officers in Michigan could be using this device for routine traffic stops according to this article
Basically, we've ventured off topic anyway.. the question that remains (regardless of the 'conspiracy theory' sounding debate) is:
is it possible for the devs to prevent this device from scanning our phones ?

FBI = CIQ

http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
crzchn said:
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. hopefully they use it for the greater good.... thats all i would have to say, there is a lot of sickos out there.
Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha ha I agree!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
the worst part about ciq and other non government agencies collecting data is that they are used by the fbi and cia to share info... which is illegal through direct channels. also, a third party collecting our info and delivering it to the carriers is totally unacceptable. theres tons of threads in the OG epic forums... as thats where konane first found and decided to kill CIQ. i honestly wonder if all the anti-ciq stuff really started there... then the tech pundit sites reported what was in these forums as usual... then the mainstream noticed... idunno. as far as plots to take over the world/bring down systems... keep it analog like good music. all the major telecoms have an open door policy w the feds... so its not like they would need CIQ for normal investigations... and they have a grace period to get warrants after they look at the info... patriot acts sealed the fate of privacy and liberty in this country. all because of a now dead boogeyman living in a cave... good job america... something about a jackboot on a human head... forever...
/rant
nivron said:
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the FBI. You don't think while they are combing through all that data while investigating CIQ they won't "stumble" upon certain things? Or mirror those servers? Or realize how useful to them CIQ is and say they've found nothing wrong with what CIQ or the carriers are doing?
Do you think for a moment the FBI isn't already using CIQ as a resource to catch 'terrorists'? Like how the airlines use full body scanners and the TSA to catch 'terrorists' with the same high (lmao!) efficiency.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/12/12/fbi-says-carrieriq-may-be-used-in-law-enforcement-proceedings/
Not saying you think any of that, just making a point. I'm pretty sure most of us are on the same page with this crap.
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
sfhub said:
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the code may be embedded deeper than we thought. Not just at the system or kernel level, but further. I'm no microprocessor engineer but doesn't almost every chip have instruction sets or at least some sort of code written into it? Because when CIQ itself says one of the 3 methods of loading it on the device is at the hardware level - that's what it sounds like to me. Literally the chips are programed with CIQ in the code.
Remove that.
then we would have to disable it in drivers
xlGmanlx said:
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh man, here we go with the "I don't have anything to hide so why should I care" section of this conversation.
I'm not embarrassed about having sex but I sure as hell am not going to let you watch. It's called privacy. Has nothing to do with having things to hide, it has to do with the basic human right to have our own space, time, thoughts, gadgets, property, voice, opinion, and so on.
There are no saints either. Everybody has lied, cheated, stolen, done something wrong that would get them in trouble. Sometimes it was a mistake or even an accident. Does that mean black helicopters should have descended on you to whisk you away to a 5x5 cell without trial? No, and why without trial? Because at this point they don't need a warrant and as per the Patriot Act you don't even have to be charged with something to be held for, well, forever. So no trial is the next logical step.
Just a little interesting fact, the US Patriot Act is actually an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
KCRic said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
I never doubted the gov would trace. Glad its gone.
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
xlGmanlx said:
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us ....
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Protect us from what?
Sent from Tapatalk
Agreed, and I believe this was a huge oversight on their part. The point i was trying to make is there are plenty of other spaces where the privacy is willing given away with little notification and facebook is one of them. Hell they have been told they are to comply with any audits for the next 20 years.
phatmanxxl said:
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh, that argument just makes me sick. Those agencies are trying to protect their livelihood, which comes from protecting us, but it's not the same thing. Police detectives get promotions partly based on their case closure rates, that means they have self interest in closing cases that might not be quite airtight. Because who doesn't want a promotion, with the prestige and money that comes with it. The CIA was certain iraq had WMD's, and was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, because blockbuster findings like that lead to more funding, which means more turf for those section directors. They aren't all bad obviously, on the contrary I'm certain most of them want to do the right thing. It's the few that don't because they care more about their career than anything else, or the guy that is trying to do the right thing but simply gets it wrong. Mistakes happen, data gets misread or incorrectly analyzed, and people suffer for it. I don't want to be that unlucky person, so I don't want that crap operating on my phone.

ANY SPRINT employees???? Need some questions answered please.

Just wondering if any of you sprint workers here can tell me some things about the tech positin. What to expect and what is usually done there. I got an interview tomorrow with them for a tech position, so i just wanted to find out the benefits of working for sprint. Any help will be greatly appreciated . Thank you.
Benefits of working at Sprint? That would be amazing customers like us here on XDA, what more could you hope for? lol
Good luck on your interview.
First off, #1 benefit is a $0 phone plan.
As far as the position goes, having experience rooting, flashing and just general understanding of Android will be the biggest thing. Followed by customer service (you can't be one of those closet nerds who can't talk to people) and lastly, third main task is handling inventory.
Honesty, most of the job is hard resetting Android phones since no one takes the time to understand their own phone. Also, learning the basics of Blackberries will help you a lot if you have no understanding of them going into it.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Sabbathia said:
First off, #1 benefit is a $0 phone plan.
As far as the position goes, having experience rooting, flashing and just general understanding of Android will be the biggest thing. Followed by customer service (you can't be one of those closet nerds who can't talk to people) and lastly, third main task is handling inventory.
Honesty, most of the job is hard resetting Android phones since no one takes the time to understand their own phone. Also, learning the basics of Blackberries will help you a lot if you have no understanding of them going into it.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with all of this. Plus, it helps to have a thick skin.
Good luck!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
So your going to work in a corporate store? or a 3rd party reatiler (often mistaken for retail stores), or deep in the bowls of sprint with fancy switches or tower sites?
Techie
I started as a tech in a preferred retailer, I am now the store manager. Some of the previous comments were on point, You will be dealing with mainly android phones, likely EVO 4G's. Knowing the in's and outs of an android device is the best route. Having a general understanding of Blackberries is helpful. The hardest devices are the iden/nextel devices. They are a pain in the ass to work on. Having solid customer service and the ability to understand and empathize with your customer is key. You will get alot of angry people who say something like, " I have been with sprint for so many years, and I have 4 lines and my bill is $200/month, give me what I want!" The inital response is to say, "You and 40 million others too" Point being is that you have to be thick skinned and not take it personal. The best advice I can give, is to BACK UP CONTACTS prior to doing any work on the phone. Android makes it easy, export them to the SD. Blackberry, run a backup on desktop manager, other devices, make a backup using the cellbrite. The goal of a repair center is to repair first, triage second, and exchange as a last resort. Learning how to actually open up a phone and replace parts and assess whats liquid damage and whats fixable just comes with experience and it isn't generally something you can learn about ahead of time. Please PM me is you have some specific quesitons, I've dealt with the good, the bad and the ugly in my location. It's a tough job, but can be really fun if your a geek. It's the ultimate geek job.
Best advice I can give is to learn how to not take crap from anyone. Customers will do anything and everything to get something for free. The customer is not always right.
Memorize anything you can about Sprint phones. Settings, hard reset buttons, tweaks, etc. The more you can do from memory without having to look it up, the better off you'll be.
Yes. And I cannot emphasize enough that you will be dealing with some of the angriest people you might ever encounter. Nothing equals the rage of some random corporate big head who might face a day without their mobile device. They are out for blood. No matter how courteous and understanding you could possibly be.
Make sure to have thick skin and learn the eccentricities of passive aggressive conversation.
Many inconsiderate, ignorant, and inept employees in your prospective position, have soured the public towards cellular employees.
A bad experience on the phone or at another location will mightily influence the attitudes of customers that you serve face to face. So you might spend 90% of your time fixing the wrongs of some idiot who doesn't care. (Usually from call centers, but other customer facing locations as well.)
It can be a very amazing position. Frequently gratifying by helping a less technically knowledgable person through the varying issues they encounter. But many bad apples are to be prepared for.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Yes. And I cannot emphasize enough that you will be dealing with some of the angriest people you might ever encounter. Nothing equals the rage of some random corporate big head who might face a day without their mobile device. They are out for blood. No matter how courteous and understanding you could possibly be.
Make sure to have thick skin and learn the eccentricities of passive aggressive conversation.
Many inconsiderate, ignorant, and inept employees in your prospective position, have soured the public towards cellular employees.
A bad experience on the phone or at another location will mightily influence the attitudes of customers that you serve face to face. So you might spend 90% of your time fixing the wrongs of some idiot who doesn't care. (Usually from call centers, but other customer facing locations as well.)
It can be a very amazing position. Frequently gratifying by helping a less technically knowledgable person through the varying issues they encounter. But many bad apples are to be prepared for.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your going to scare him off! Good techs are hard to come by. While the above is correct, you may get yelled at for something that happened at another sprint store, but because your shirt says Sprint, you are the person getting it. Don't take it personal and do the best you can to help them. While I've dealt with plenty of upset people, I've also dealt with tons of people have thrive on the knowledge that I have of the android operating system, and really enjoy learning about something new. Other customers just want to learn the basics and be on their way. Find out the customers needs and address those needs.
I had an interview for sprint customer service rep today actually. Would have gotten the job but I didn't like the schedule. they gave me 2pm to 3am. Reapplying in a few months Because the job pays very good money and seems fun IMO.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
They should get paid good money, customer care reps get smashed on by sprint customers.
eeeeeeeeek said:
I started as a tech in a preferred retailer, I am now the store manager. Some of the previous comments were on point, You will be dealing with mainly android phones, likely EVO 4G's. Knowing the in's and outs of an android device is the best route. Having a general understanding of Blackberries is helpful. The hardest devices are the iden/nextel devices. They are a pain in the ass to work on. Having solid customer service and the ability to understand and empathize with your customer is key. You will get alot of angry people who say something like, " I have been with sprint for so many years, and I have 4 lines and my bill is $200/month, give me what I want!" The inital response is to say, "You and 40 million others too" Point being is that you have to be thick skinned and not take it personal. The best advice I can give, is to BACK UP CONTACTS prior to doing any work on the phone. Android makes it easy, export them to the SD. Blackberry, run a backup on desktop manager, other devices, make a backup using the cellbrite. The goal of a repair center is to repair first, triage second, and exchange as a last resort. Learning how to actually open up a phone and replace parts and assess whats liquid damage and whats fixable just comes with experience and it isn't generally something you can learn about ahead of time. Please PM me is you have some specific quesitons, I've dealt with the good, the bad and the ugly in my location. It's a tough job, but can be really fun if your a geek. It's the ultimate geek job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much man I really appreciate that I'll definitely pm . Thank you all for replying so fast. I'm really excited about his job because I've been working on the customer service jobs all my life. Right now I'm working at a dealership so I know what to expect from a few customers. And as far as android system goes
I'm really comfortable with it. I know how to root and flash and the basics so thats covered for me. Ya'll should of seen the faces of some of the employees there when i pulled out my E4GT with the ics rom it was pricesless lol. Wow the benefits sound really freaking awesome!! I think is a retail store. And is a tech position like helping people out with their phone probs. The only thing worrying me is blackbarry since I heavent had any of those phones. Good thing there is always room for learning . Ones again thank you all
Nextel blackberries are the worst, but whoever trains you will teach what you need to know. You won't get thrown to wolves upon hiring. There are alot of training courses. You won't deal to much with root, only when you see a rooted phone that won't activate. Good Luck let us know how it goes.
tomaro is my final in training, or my initial 90 days. in fact, my manager made me a new name tag without the in training
whoever mentioned knowing the basics of blackberry has it right. i know EVERYTHING about android, and an sufficient amount about iOS, but let me tell you, my first 20 tickets were all blackberries with problems like JVM errors and no gps lock...those being so hard i mainly just exchanged -_- then again, even with the easiest question "how do i turn wifi on" threw me off. its like i didt even know blackberies exsisted before i was hired at sprint. lmfao but thankfully one of my coworkers is a major RIM guy so hes since taught me the ropes
one more thing on the blackberry front...is it just me or do they taking FOREVER to boot??? it gets akward after the first 5 minutes and im shouting from behind the glass....half way there, imma fix it, dont worry! lol
however. whoever said you wont get thrown to the wolves is trippin, yo. they stripped me naked, powdered me with sea salt and threw me into the fire. i dont ****in know how to change an evo speaker!
bETTER FIGURE IT OUT QUICK, WE TOLD HER YOUD bE DONE IN 15 MINUTES (youtube the rescue)
i have since learned the ropes and have really proven myself. my manager is hiring me on for 2$ more than i asked for, plus commission on the NASCcalander, and awesome benefits. ive drastically brought up our overall csats, and my personal csat and ready now is always at 100%. my first months AE budget was blown out of the water, but the past two months have been well below what they expected.
all in in all id say you need to know how to work blackberry desktop manager, the hard key reset for the entire line up, and youd better pick up a soldering gun 'cas those evo charging ports dont last a lick.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
sorry my asus keyboard dock sux
kurtiskobain said:
tomaro is my final in training, or my initial 90 days. in fact, my manager made me a new name tag without the in training
whoever mentioned knowing the basics of blackberry has it right. i know EVERYTHING about android, and an sufficient amount about iOS, but let me tell you, my first 20 tickets were all blackberries with problems like JVM errors and no gps lock...those being so hard i mainly just exchanged -_- then again, even with the easiest question "how do i turn wifi on" threw me off. its like i didt even know blackberies exsisted before i was hired at sprint. lmfao but thankfully one of my coworkers is a major RIM guy so hes since taught me the ropes
one more thing on the blackberry front...is it just me or do they taking FOREVER to boot??? it gets akward after the first 5 minutes and im shouting from behind the glass....half way there, imma fix it, dont worry! lol
however. whoever said you wont get thrown to the wolves is trippin, yo. they stripped me naked, powdered me with sea salt and threw me into the fire. i dont ****in know how to change an evo speaker!
bETTER FIGURE IT OUT QUICK, WE TOLD HER YOUD bE DONE IN 15 MINUTES (youtube the rescue)
i have since learned the ropes and have really proven myself. my manager is hiring me on for 2$ more than i asked for, plus commission on the NASCcalander, and awesome benefits. ive drastically brought up our overall csats, and my personal csat and ready now is always at 100%. my first months AE budget was blown out of the water, but the past two months have been well below what they expected.
all in in all id say you need to know how to work blackberry desktop manager, the hard key reset for the entire line up, and youd better pick up a soldering gun 'cas those evo charging ports dont last a lick.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
sorry my asus keyboard dock sux
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I hate the blackberry start up time!
Okay, I need to learn how to fix charging ports, is that on YouTube or somewhere else I can learn.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I wanna job at a sprint store
In all seriousness I really do
But I need a high school deploma or a GED
Man I still have to wait till June to graduate and I'm willing to bet I can troubleshoot phones better than most sprint employees that don't come here
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
JasonK75 said:
Yeah, I hate the blackberry start up time!
Okay, I need to learn how to fix charging ports, is that on YouTube or somewhere else I can learn.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every EVO port I see is so totally ****ed theres no chance of saving it.
If the anchor legs break off you can forget about trying to fix it.
Im not sure why anyone thinks the Nextels are hard to fix? 90% or the time its swapping a front flip assembly or doing a master reset on the sim card.
Been a tech for 2 years now, its not a bad job like he said if you can spot the bull**** and keep the tough skin mentality...tons of people with the "Customer service said...." and then having to explain the TRUTH, get alot of the people who said they were told by CARE to bring their phone that fell into the toilet into me and I would replace it on the spot....not so much, call Asurrion....alot of that and replacing EVO speakers lol....its not bad at all....
TonyTurboII said:
Every EVO port I see is so totally ****ed theres no chance of saving it.
If the anchor legs break off you can forget about trying to fix it.
Im not sure why anyone thinks the Nextels are hard to fix? 90% or the time its swapping a front flip assembly or doing a master reset on the sim card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea it's crazy how bad people destroy EVO charging ports. And screens. People with EVOs seem to take no care with their device.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Yea it's crazy how bad people destroy EVO charging ports. And screens. People with EVOs seem to take no care with their device.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a crying shame for those poor Evos.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

[Off Topic] Self Defense

Started a new thread for anyone that wanted to continue the conversation about self defense from this thread because it is getting way off topic from the OP.
Self defense: what's your stance? Firearm, or no?
Open discussion, let's not attack someone else's views/opinions, or say things that will have a mod close this thread.
Is anyone ANTI-self defense? I mean, you can be pro-self defense (martial arts) and be anti-firearm.
Personally, I have a shotgun, a .22 and a .45. I'm seriously considering getting a license to conceal and carry but I don't currently. I also have had years of living with a Dad who was a gun nut and he filled my head with more opinions on the various aspects of gun control, concealing and even gun ownership than you could imagine. What stuck with me though is that you should NEVER own a gun unless you are SURE you can use it. You must be of the mindset that you can take a life, because if you don't - if you hesitate - your gun could be used against you. I don't know if many people actually mull over the fact that bad guy or not, everyone is someone's son or daughter. And once the aggression drains from that face you laid down, you are looking at a human being. Who is scary dying or dead? Can you live the rest of your life with that on you?
If I lived alone, I wouldn't own a gun. But I have a family and their well being is my responsibility. Would I kill if I had to? Only for them. Nothing I own is worth a life otherwise.
Just my two cents. You're welcome to disagree. I spent years arguing with Dad, "I could do it. No problem." And then I had kids and my perspective changed. I am changed.
Much respect to all who participate in this thread.
What is this doing on XDA ????
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC One
Well said. I also have a family, and would do absolutely anything necessary for them. I conceal carry anywhere its legal, any time I am able to, as well as my wife. Of course, I would only use a firearm when absolutely necessary, and would not hesitate when it can to my family. Like you said, you have to have already decided if the time came to take a life, you need to know if you will or not, and not hesitate.
I'm also a life member of the NRA, and platinum member of the USCCA - they provide funds in the event of a criminal or civil lawsuit, as you as you did everything correctly.
I don't comprehend the government's views on the 2nd amendment, and states like Illinois where it is extremely difficult to legally defend yourself with a firearm. There are clear statistics showing that pro-gun states/cities have a lower crime rate over a period of time. I'm at work at the moment, so I don't have a link to provide as a reference currently.
jbh00jh said:
What is this doing on XDA ????
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out the link in the OP. Background info - someone got their new HTC One stolen at gunpoint. That thread got way off topic, as the OP was inquiring what they could do to possibly locate the phone.
In some states its illegal to claim self-defense if you were already carrying a weapon with "intent" to defend yourself.
I begin self defense up to and including killing someone in self defense. But of course situation dictates, I'm not going to shoot someone for stealing my $30 grill from my front porch. But if someone were to break into my house and I were in the house, who ever comes through my door better be ready to die.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4
peteschlabar said:
Check out the link in the OP. Background info - someone got their new HTC One stolen at gunpoint. That thread got way off topic, as the OP was inquiring what they could do to possibly locate the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand why the thread was started. My wife and I both have a carry permit and believe in the second amendment.
What I was saying was XDA is not for NRA and gun control debates, it's for phone info.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC One
123421342 said:
In some states its illegal to claim self-defense if you were already carrying a weapon with "intent" to defend yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, and this logic baffles me.
sacnotsack said:
I begin self defense up to and including killing someone in self defense. But of course situation dictates, I'm not going to shoot someone for stealing my $30 grill from my front porch. But if someone were to break into my house and I were in the house, who ever comes through my door better be ready to die.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. One should never even reach for a firearm unless its something serious to begin with, which includes breaking into my home with my wife and kids. In Kentucky (and probably most states) you can only legally self defend with a deadly weapon for serious injury/bodily harm/death, rape/sexual act, kidnapping. As far as property, the law isn't perfectly clear, but if the perp is in your home, it's all bad for them.
jbh00jh said:
I understand why the thread was started. My wife and I both have a carry permit and believe in the second amendment.
What I was saying was XDA is not for NRA and gun control debates, it's for phone info.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC One
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Fair enough. But it was already being discussed anyway, and if fellow xda members wanted to discuss it further, here is the thread. No disrespect, but you're also basically saying 'why are people talking about sports in the off topic thread?' Same logic.
This has nothing to do with the Verizon HTC One or any other phone. There is a forum on XDA for off topic discussions unrelated to phones, appropriately titled Off-Topic Forum. Nothing personal, I just come here for info about the phone I use and would like to keep it that way. I rather not see the thread popping up to the top every time someone comments on this sometime volatile subject.
Or we could just take the discussion here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2415379

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