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Stop the debacle and concern on whether or not the 1700mah, 1600mah 1500mah blah blah blah batteries are better than stock.. I have a LOT of experience with Li-Po and Li-Ion batteries (cell phones use Li-Ion technology) and I can tell you WITHOUT a doubt that all these knock off companies are full of SH^* trying to say there batteries are of a higher capacity than the stock battery while staying the same size. Although it is possible to cram more mah into the same size package with li-ion batteries it is VERY unlikely to be able to do so with the current technology out right now. Most of these companies rate their mah on a different scale and actually will pull the battery to a lower voltage to justify their claims when it dosent matter because cell phones have a safety feature that has to shut the phone down at the specified voltage to prevent fires. Yes fires, Li-Ion has a fire risk if it is depleted all the way, not the same risk as a Li-Po battery but a risk just the same. HTC has a separate department that deals specifically with batteries and I can assure you they know and use the most up-to-date batteries they can get their hands on for these devices. There is nothing for them to gain by using inferior batteries in our phone. Those that have purchased the seidio 1600 extended battery and claim to have a better life on the phone are under a placebo effect. If you are just purchasing this "Extended" battery as a spare than buy all means go right ahead but dont expect a miraculous two hours extra from it because it is of lesser quality than the stock battery. I have hundreds of dollars in battery testing and logging equipment and If you guys dont believe me i will run some tests on the stock vs. whichever battery you'd like me too and post the data for all to see, but Ive been down this road before with htc phones and have always come up with the same conclusion......The aftermarket "Extended" batteries actually have less mah's than their stock counterparts.
Of course Im not referring to the htc extended battery in this post, its obviously pushing more mah's with its monstrous size, lol.
....just sayin..
Oh' and to elaborate because Ive also read some concerns over the length of time for charging the thunderbolt (which does seem lengthy I will admit).
Since our phone has such a hard time time keeping up with a normal days use I believe what htc has done is given the battery a longer "saturation charge" for the battery to completely charge before it completes the charge cycle.
Li-ion batteries are charged on a 3 cycle charge system and stage two is what is considered the saturation cycle where the battery may sit at a relatively static voltage for a period of time to saturate the cells with current to top off the charge, some cell phones skimp on this step to give the phone a fast charge time which is termed "charge-and-run" and people assume the device has been adequately charged when it has not. For an adequate "FULL" charge without harming the battery or affecting battery life, typically li-ion batteries take approx. 3-4 hours.
So the 3 batteries I got for 12$ on ebay ARE paperweights?
1234567188 said:
So the 3 batteries I got for 12$ on ebay ARE paperweights?
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No. The two I bought for $44 are. How much do oem batteries cost?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I wouldnt go that far, I doubt any of the batteries are "paperweights" yet. Im just making the point that the claims of higher capacity are unfounded and the cheap knock-offs are of lesser quality. Also check where the batteries are made. Good quality Li-ion cells come from Japan.
One thing to note with the cheapies is the temp while charging or under heavy use. Get a temp monitor app and compare between the stock and your aftermarket batteries, they will probably run hotter. Unfortunately I dont have any other batteries to test for you guys other than the stock OEM battery otherwise I would. If I pick any up Ill cycle the stock vs. aftermarket and post the data log between the two.
Also I didnt mean the "fire" comment to worry anyone, Li-ion batteries have protection curcuit that will render the battery useless and unserviceable if the cell reaches a voltage of 2.70v or lower which is where the chemistry of li-ion becomes unstable.
I'll ship your one of the two 1700 when I get it if you wanna test it and post results. Just ask that you ship it back after your done.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
good info, thanks!
1234567188 said:
So the 3 batteries I got for 12$ on ebay ARE paperweights?
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ha, I bought the same ones you did.
I didn't expect them to be as good as the 1400 mAh battery that comes with the phone. I just wanted to have a spare battery available in case I'm traveling and watching movies or something (on a plane). Even though it says it's 1500 mAh, I expect them to be more around 1200 - 1400 mAh.
Check this website for some information on similar battery testing.
http://batteryboss.org/
I used their results when I purchased the Seido 3500 for my Evo.
I've used Chinese batteries every chance I get. They do work. From an Eris to the Dinc. 3500mah. Never had a problem. Emails and games etc. I bought the extended battery along with the Tbolt. Just don't like the hump on the back. I'm on eBay every night waiting for the Chinese to strike with a extended battery. At least a Better extended back cover. For $10.99 free shipping ill wait 2 weeks for it. F%$% what u heard their cheap batteries work.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Every cheap battery I have ever used has worked great.... for 2 weeks.
reg83ny said:
For $10.99 free shipping ill wait 2 weeks for it. F%$% what u heard their cheap batteries work.
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lol thats hilarious
1234567188 said:
So the 3 batteries I got for 12$ on ebay ARE paperweights?
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Click to collapse
ddgarcia05 said:
No. The two I bought for $44 are. How much do oem batteries cost?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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This was the best part of the thread.
Awwz.... Well I DO know of one way.... connect a bunch of AA batteries in parallel, bust out a dremel, and create a frankenbattery!
ddgarcia05 said:
I'll ship your one of the two 1700 when I get it if you wanna test it and post results. Just ask that you ship it back after your done.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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I appreciate it bro, but Id rather not be responsible for someone elses battery lol. Im sure Ill get bored soon enough and order up the batts then do some tests just for shi^s and giggles...
firedude12 said:
I appreciate it bro, but Id rather not be responsible for someone elses battery lol. Im sure Ill get bored soon enough and order up the batts then do some tests just for shi^s and giggles...
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If you do I recommend you buy the 1500 MyTouch4G batteries from ChiChi's htcexpress or their store on amazon. They should be the same a the 1700 Thunderbolt batteries and $20 cheaper.
y2ktibltd said:
Check this website for some information on similar battery testing.
http://batteryboss.org/
I used their results when I purchased the Seido 3500 for my Evo.
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Click to collapse
When I get around to ordering up the batteries Ill post a chart like that on a seperate thread for our phone. I have some pretty sophisticated logging equipment. It shows the temp, charge capacity, voltage, mah, cell balance and health in an easy to read graph.
Im not a battery nerd but I used to be into RC helicopters BIG time and when you have a $5000.00 helicopter that can kill someone its just normal practice to have the equipment to check your $800 batteries so they dont fail 80 feet in the air and blow up or decapitate someone, lol
Heres a video of one of my helicopters (Trex 700 electric) , this one uses two 6s 5000mah li-po batteries and each one costs over $300 and they only last 8 minutes before there dead The video isnt of me however, I need a video camera to post mine but the helicopter is identical for the most part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANsH5FZq6XA
(speaking from g1, nexus, and g2 experience only)
i've bought extended batteries for phones for less than $15 each all in the 2400 to 3600 mah range. they last 2-3 days with normal use. the oldest one is 3 years old (g1) and still performs like new.
iirc the seller was based in hongkong.
just saying.
the htc extended battery
personally of all the batteries i have tried this is by far the best one until sedio has an 3500mah then i will be getting that i think
So i found this NORMAL sized extended battery on ebay. It has 1700mah opposed to the 1400 mah the factory one has. I have the verizon extended battery and it works great but, IT IS HUGE and there are no decent cases. So for $15 bucks i gave it a shot. When i get it ill let you know if the 300mah makes a difference.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-Thunderbolt-Verizon-1700mAh-Extended-Slim-Battery-/150597849293?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item231054d0cd
UPDATE
THIS BATTERY SUCKS
albotz21 said:
So i found this NORMAL sized extended battery on ebay. It has 1700mah opposed to the 1400 mah the factory one has. I have the verizon extended battery and it works great but, IT IS HUGE and there are no decent cases. So for $15 bucks i gave it a shot. When i get it ill let you know if the 300mah makes a difference.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-Thunderbolt-Verizon-1700mAh-Extended-Slim-Battery-/150597849293?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item231054d0cd
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If I am not mistaken...there are threads on this battery and some people didn't find that much of a difference....but each phone is different..
I have the extended battery.....I have a silicone skin that I cut to fit the extended batter cover and then I bought a holster for it...works AWESOME
I didn't see a thread for this specific battery. I cut the case also, and it falls off every time i put it in my pocket drives me crazy lol. Something has to give a 2in thick phone doesn't do it for me. Plus that battery is heavy. So lets see how this cheap battery does
There's a thread somewhere about an independent test from "battery man" or something of the like.
He's stated that these batteries are often rated higher than whey they actually are, like 1700 actually being a 14 something. I'll see if I can find it. It was an interesting read.
Here you go.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1021992
and
http://batteryboss.org/
It's not a 1700 mAh battery. It's a battery with a 1700 mAh sticker on it. With all the complaints about battery life, and the rumors that the TB was delayed while they worked to improve it, HTC would have gone with a higher capacity battery if one were available in a suitable size.
I got a couple of "1500 mAh" batteries and a charger from Hong Kong for $9 from ebay. They seem to work about the same as the OEM, enough to get me through a day (no 4G here, yet).
Some others had purchased these. If you run Battery Monitor Widget, it tells you how many mAh your battery is, it reports the correct 2750 for my extended, but on these 1700's it reported 1350.
I just need to come out and say it. A battery is a battery, you can't get a huge amount more of mah out of a battery that is the same size. There is no amazing battery that can hold 30% more energy and be the same size. You can increase capacity by taking out circuits, thinning the wall, and optimizing space in the battery but you can't make it tons higher. These batteries promoting themselves and so much more charge in the same package are a scam.
I've been posting on threads on these "1700mAh" batteries because I dislike the company that makes these ads. Its false advertising.
The story is that the seller already had "1500mAh" batteries on Amazon for the MyTouch 4G. Then when the TB came out he listed them on Amazon for the TB advertising them as 1500mAh. A week later he raised the price from $35ish to $50ish for 2 batteries and changed the title to state that its a 1700mAh battery.
For a short period of time people purchased this "1700mAh" battery for the TB. When they received it the sticker still stated 1500mAh. Then later people started getting the batteries with the stickers saying "1700mAh"
Summary: False advertising. Do not buy. Exactly the same as the $3-5 eBay batteries, so SAVE YOUR MONEY
BELIEVE ME I HAVE MY DOUBTS .ill test it and see what it does. it popped up on ebeay and ill try it out. gEeEeez. negative negative negative lol
albotz21 said:
BELIEVE ME I HAVE MY DOUBTS .ill test it and see what it does. it popped up on ebeay and ill try it out. gEeEeez. negative negative negative lol
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No one is being negative. They're just trying to let you know that you're getting scammed. Even if it was actually 1700 mah you'd get what, a extra hour out of it?
i have this battery and i got to say ain't worth it unless you want an extra battery just like the one that comes with the tbolt...
Hemorrdroid said:
Some others had purchased these. If you run Battery Monitor Widget, it tells you how many mAh your battery is, it reports the correct 2750 for my extended, but on these 1700's it reported 1350.
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That sounds about right, mine is on its way back to the company!
Hemorrdroid said:
Some others had purchased these. If you run Battery Monitor Widget, it tells you how many mAh your battery is, it reports the correct 2750 for my extended, but on these 1700's it reported 1350.
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Click to collapse
There's a setting where you can change the capacity. My stock battery read 1350 also.
With that said, I bought these 1700 mah batteries and they are worse than stock. I guess it's a decent price for two extra batteries and a charger, but they suck. They dont extend anything.
i have tried this battery, it is the same, if not worse then the OEM battery.
I bought two of these 1700 mah batteries with a charger a few days ago. I only paid about $26 after shipping so we'll see how well they do. I'm not expecting miracles, I just need one to leave at the office and one for home. If my battery dies, I can still use my phone.
Sent from my 4G Thunderbolt.
you would probably be better off just flashing a kernel/rom that isn't all bloated and is more energy efficient. Ever since flashing the perfect storm rom my battery life was better. Flashed CM7 when the prealpha came out and its even better.
I'm on the Twisted Sense rom with the bamf_4.3b kernel. I have no complaints with the rom or kernel. My battery drain comes from me never putting the phone down.
Sent from my 4G Thunderbolt.
Never seem to get anyone posting results in these threads. I'd imagine there won't be much of a difference, but still would be nice to see what people are getting.
I'm still waiting on mine to come in.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
My extended batteries came in yesterday. I charged them and carried one today. My phone had drained by about 2:00 pm so I popped in one of my new ones. It's 8:30 and I'm at 69%. I wont say that I'm getting fantastic battery life, but it's fair. I did use navigation and I browsed the web a bit. After around 5 pm, I was on wifi so I'm sure that helped. For $26, I don't think I made a bad deal.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Was considering buying this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_712wt_908
Its 3600 mAH battery for Galaxy S 2. Anyone have any experiences with these?
I need case & battery. What about these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OEM-Sam...Accessories&hash=item4ab19a4066#ht_500wt_1029
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950mAh-OEM...ccessories&hash=item415f95bece#ht_2538wt_1018
Thanks
i bought the 3500 one and its from china, it wont be deliver till Christmas time frame -_-"
careful with different batteries and battery cases since there are people who've had their device "blow up" !
darkamikaze said:
careful with different batteries and battery cases since there are people who've had their device "blow up" !
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i say those people are dumb! if u feel like your phone is getting hotter, then maybe you should turn it off and investigate!
Why can't there just be one huge thread about eBay batteries and say its fake!
As someone who has worked in that field for a long time I can tell you that most of the products are not worthwhile. The battery ratings are not even good faith estimates. They just stick whatever they want on there.
Many of these aftermarket batteries cause hot reboot problems, shut down problems, and other voltage instability related problems leading to hardware shorts or inoperable temperatures.
It's just not worthwhile. Especially considering a $500+ phone.
If you want to get a backup battery, I say get another OEM one for a spare.
Otherwise, find a reputable 3rd party US-based online retailer that you can physically hold accountable if anything happens.
It wasn't long ago that I field tested one of the rechargeable 2-way transponders for a big name auto-security company (I won't name names), and their battery that was bench tested and calculated still turned out to be defective. Upon recharge and initial use, it would expand to the point of explosion. It popped right out of the transponder while melting onto the circuit board. you could tell that another 5 seconds plugged in would have been lethal.
Just sayin' it's not worth the risk. Damage to goods is one thing.
But if the battery actually does explode, the personal injury will be gruesome.
Anyway. Good luck in whatever you decide.
This just lead me away from ever buying an overseas extended battery. Thank you.
a4 moda said:
As someone who has worked in that field for a long time I can tell you that most of the products are not worthwhile. The battery ratings are not even good faith estimates. They just stick whatever they want on there.
Many of these aftermarket batteries cause hot reboot problems, shut down problems, and other voltage instability related problems leading to hardware shorts or inoperable temperatures.
It's just not worthwhile. Especially considering a $500+ phone.
If you want to get a backup battery, I say get another OEM one for a spare.
Otherwise, find a reputable 3rd party US-based online retailer that you can physically hold accountable if anything happens.
It wasn't long ago that I field tested one of the rechargeable 2-way transponders for a big name auto-security company (I won't name names), and their battery that was bench tested and calculated still turned out to be defective. Upon recharge and initial use, it would expand to the point of explosion. It popped right out of the transponder while melting onto the circuit board. you could tell that another 5 seconds plugged in would have been lethal.
Just sayin' it's not worth the risk. Damage to goods is one thing.
But if the battery actually does explode, the personal injury will be gruesome.
Anyway. Good luck in whatever you decide.
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Hi Guys,
has anyone experience with this neat piece?
Looks very good, price is fair, too and you don´t need a new back cover
ebay.com/itm/120837268925/
Thanks from Hamburg,
bud.de
If copy-paste doesn´t work for you, add the www in front of ebay.com.
Sry, I can´t hyperlink. Not enough posts, yet.
bud.de said:
Hi Guys,
has anyone experience with this neat piece?
Looks very good, price is fair, too and you don´t need a new back cover
ebay.com/itm/120837268925/
Thanks from Hamburg,
bud.de
If copy-paste doesn´t work for you, add the www in front of ebay.com.
Sry, I can´t hyperlink. Not enough posts, yet.
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Fake, No way its 3030mah.
Thor said:
Fake, No way its 3030mah.
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That is why I am asking. But have you tried and/or had any experience with a similar battery of this brand/seller?
Ok. Just to be clear. I have found a lot of these threads in the past and I always say the same thing. If Samsung could have pushed in another 500 mah into the battery they would have done it themselves. It's silly for them to include a smaller battery capacity into larger than normal battery size. It's silly.
I would stay away from cheap batteries claiming much higher mah capacities in batteries.
Stick with seidio and mugen. They're really good battery makers. They may be more expensive but I think it'll make up for it with time. Most Chinese batteries begin to loose charge after a few discharges.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note.
@zkyevolved
I understand what you are saying and agree with you partly.
I am following the xda-dev since the early day of windows mobile 6.
In the past there have been batterys (for example for the htc tytn II)
with the same dimensions and a higher capacity.
Even though I am sceptical, too (especially because of the price).
Generally nowadays companies like Samsung with there top end smartphones will go for the highest possible capacity.
While it's fully possible to get an increased capacity battery with the same dimensions, They will not last that way for long and will loose alot of there capacity with every charge.
Simply put, Unless it's bigger, It's not nearly as stable and reliable as an OEM battery because if it was possible that way, It would have been included in the device.
The battery in the galaxy note is simply amazing already, Obviously we geeks want longer last juice, But for now, Adding a bigger cover or getting a second battery is the only piratical way.
Power consumption is probably the most researched aspect of today's smartphones, It shouldn't be two many years before we see week long batteries in are devices that charge quicker and quicker.
At least we hope.
zkyevolved said:
Ok. Just to be clear. I have found a lot of these threads in the past and I always say the same thing. If Samsung could have pushed in another 500 mah into the battery they would have done it themselves. It's silly for them to include a smaller battery capacity into larger than normal battery size. It's silly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, thats why its ridiculous to think that some small chinese company would have the manufacturing process as advanced (or more) as samsung. I am sure that no 3rd party battery would reach the capacity of samsung battery of the same size. It really is simple logic. Its all scam. Most of these batteries will barely reach 2000 mah.
And the biggest scam is mugen with super expensive batteries which have 75 percent or less of the advertised capacity.
If you want a new battery, buy samsung battery.
I've also have bad experience with the cheap Chinese batteries - the most annoying thing is the non linear power drop (e.g it goes from 45% to 20% in a second)
First of all i know there is a similar post here https://forum.xda-developers.com/go...ent-direct-replacement-battery-nexus-t3905671
i buy the battery because of that post so believe me, im aware of... The battery is a brand new item from a german manufacturer of pollarcell goods (premium battery as they claim to be)
I order it at ebay for GBP 17.90 (US $23.28) but i had a 10 dollars coupon so i just had to pay 13 dollars plus free shipping. It took 9 days germany - argentina so WOW not bad, bad is the postal service here but anyway, after two months local shipping i got the battery; here:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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}
and then i proceed to replace it (u can see i still had an original battery replacement (was excellent but after so long i can only get 3 nice hours of use)
so after all the waiting the battery wasnt working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nothing, was like no battery there at all, the bolt was gone as soon as i took the power cord away.
I had two options, send it back (and wait 3 or 4 more months with a battery that exponentially decrease its performance day after day) or open it and see what is going on with a small chance that if nothing is wrong i lose the 13 dollars because the warranty is gone...so guess what
those two metal plates have to make contact with each other so, after fixing that with some tape (i guess u can solder with tin also) now the battery works fine
now i will charge it fully and in a few days i will update with the performance in a regular day and sot test. Thanks
Wow, i have my old Nexus 5 catching dust somewhere in mi home. This could be interesting. Thanks for the info mate. Will follow your updates.
Enviado desde mi SM-G965F mediante Tapatalk
ok first update, 21:41 june 18, disconnected 100%, and last till 22:21 june 19 with 2% remaining, with no signal of sudden drops of charge or else. yes ok i have an app always running 24/7(followers assitant) and thats whay it took 17% and im a big instagram user BUT in constast to that i have another cellphone solely for work so this is my personal phone and is mostly social media and stuff, i will says any user will get simillar performance if you are in stock like me (im running full stock android 6.0.1 with xposed and gravity box) or may be lower performance if u use too much gps i guess. Sorry i cannot give more useful feedback like "what about using custom roms or greenify" .
Thanks, next test will be SoT, regardless of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zt2j8lFbJQ
I just ordered this battery for my ancient Nexus 5.
I hope I don't screw this up. It's still a neat little device and I want keep it around.
---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------
This was an easy swap, watched a video and read some tips ahead of time. Worked out great.
The battery life is acceptable now, and I can easily make it through the day. I don't have any good stats on it, but the difference is very noticeable.
My experience so far...
I've been using this battery for about 2 months now. Battery life is good, better than the 5 year old stock battery I was using before. Well, don't expect any miracles, but at least now the phone can make it through the day without the need for charge, with mild usage. Mine lasts about 22hrs, whereas with the stock one it lasted about 17hrs at best.
The only disadvantage I have found is that it lacks a temperature sensor. Mine always shows a temperature of 28-29C no matter the load, charging or not. However, it works well, and since its price is quite reasonable, that's fine by me!
I've had a previous experience of buying an "original" battery (identical sticker and lettering with the stock), which proved to be a potato wrapped with aluminium foil.... So if someone is looking for a decent replacement for their aging battery, that is easy to swap, I think this is the battery to go for. Big thanks to Polarcell for keeping the hammerhead beast alive!
I bought a very expensive Polarcell (£25) for my Nexus 6. I had no quality problems with it, and even with my QHD screen I rarely drop below 50% battery by end of day with moderate but regular use (emails, texts, Telegram, news, XDA, updates, etc.)
Polarcell seem to provide quality products, so I'm surprised that the OP had a physical failure. Good work getting it fixed.
It's a good upgrade if your battery is dying.
Just another thumbs up for this battery - ordered one after seeing this thread. Thanks so much! It was getting really frustrating with all the fake or useless aftermarket batteries out there that last 5 minutes.
Ha ha ha... I'm genuinely glad you're one of the (IMO) lucky ones. Have a look at this thread.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ne...-late-2019-t3997575/post80912967#post80912967
My Nexus 6 Polarcell is still giving me stellar battery life. If you check out the Polarcell reviews for the Nexus 5 on Amazon UK you'll see that I'm at least the third to get a dud battery. Shame.
Hey guys, I need some help with choosing a battery. After many years with the original battery lately the performace droppes drastically and sometimes when I'm below 35% and I'm taking pictures I experience shutdowns. So I finaly decided that it is time to buy a new battery. After reading here and on reddit I'm wondering if I should order a Polarcell battery. I was going to order a Polarcell one, but then I saw a review on amazon saying that after 2 years it has bloated and lost a lot capacity. While searching for batteries I found another one with good reviews and I'm wondering which one I should get. Your help will be highly appreciated. I need to order from Germany or somewhere in the EU so they can deliver it to my country.
sorry I am a new user and cant post the links directly
PolarCell: amazon. de/cellePhone-PolarCell-Li-Polymer-kompatibel-Google-Polar-Wei%C3%9F/dp/B00VJ8FIV8
Green Cell: amazon. de/Green-Cell-Li-Ion-Zellen-2300mAh/dp/B07JJFXDMV/
I'm also wondering if I order Polarcell, should I order from amazon or ebay?
Having had one great Polarcell for my Nexus 6 and a totally dud one for my Nexus 5, I wouldn't gamble again on getting a good Polarcell. If there are good reviews for Green Cell, I would go for that one.
Why do you guys keep operating on the assumption that replacement batteries for cell phones that came with sealed in batteries (i.e. essentially all phones manufactured for western markets in the last decade, or so) are actually available? I understand that this perverse business model of selling almost exclusively premium-only products that turn into useless paper weights after ~2 years invariably leads to a desperate hope in the purchaser, which makes them more susceptible to fall for scams that profit from desperation, uncertainty, and the magical thinking that makes up the gap (even I, being aware of the simple facts I'm about to point out, nevertheless fell victim to what of course had to be a cell phone replacement battery scam -- because they all are, to varying degrees, scams; I'll elaborate on that below).
Here are some basic facts:
1. The claim that cell phones would be bulkier if they had replaceable battery is an egregious lie. Look up the dimensions of the last western Android device whose battery was replaceable, the LG V20. It was neither any thicker, nor did it come with a battery with substantially lower capacity than its peers at the time.
2. The claim that a replaceable battery limits the functionality of the phone is dubious at best. Around the time the V20 was still produced, the recent fad was "water proof" cell phones. Except, as I recall, they turned out not so water proof after all. "Water proof" in the end turned out to mean little more than "could be splashed with water, like when taking a shower). And if you read all the restrictions in the EULA on where exactly you were allowed to use the phone without losing warranty, the "water resistant" feature in reality was nothing of the sort. I don''t recall any other similar claims regarding other features that would be severely hampered by a removable battery door, so I'll leave it at this.
Now, to get to the availability of batteries: this may come as a surprise, but manufacturing LiPo batteries is not so trivial (in terms of barrier to entry) that you have all these previously unheard-of (in reality, fly-by-night -- and I'll get to that in a bit) companies that magically produce exact replacements for popular phone models. In fact, phone manufacturers rely on two sources for their batteries:
1. In-house: this is the case with Sony/Samsung/LG/etc. They manufacture both the phones and another division makes the batteries.
2. Contracted manufacturers: This was the case for at least the Huawei made Nexus 6P, where the battery maker was a different entity that was contracted by Huawei to produce the batteries they used in the 6P.
-In the first case, the manufacturers make their own batteries -- for phones that aren't expected to have their batteries replaced. For warranty related issues, they simply issue a new phone and program the existing IMEI into it, making it indistinguishable from the failed device. Salaries in every part of the world have risen, even while the cost of producing electronics monotonically fell at the same time. There was a point in the past where the two lines crossed and it became unprofitable to repair devices, rather than simply replace them and throw the defective device in the trash.
-In the second case, the manufacturer is contractually forbidden from independently making and selling batteries. The extra profit to them is nothing compared to the loss of profit incurred by manufacturers if their planned obsolescence schemes were foiled by a third party, so this exclusivity requirements forms the basis of any such contract.
What the above effectively means is this: one battery per phone. One digitizer per phone. One...of each component in each shell, as well as the shell itself, for each phone. In other words, the idea that there are warehouses full of OEM parts is a remnant of the (relatively recent, thus the misconception) past. Let me be as crystal clear as I can be: when you are buying a so-called OEM component for any device today, what you are receiving -- irrespective of what the seller claims -- is very nearly always a part that was removed from another existing phone that had been in use for X hours before it was scrapped and gutted for parts (*) (and when I say very nearly, this is simply to accommodate the sporadic exceptions to this hard rule that exist; of course, if you brought this up with any distributor, they would insist that all their products are magically exempt from this universal fact).
(*) To put it plainly: when you buy a "replacement battery" for your phone, you are buying an OEM component that may have optionally been rewrapped to make it seem like someone else manufactured it. To that, I have to say: please provide sufficient documentation (photos, public records, etc.) to prove "Polarcell" (or Green Battery, et al.) has the resources / manufacturing capabilities to make their own LiPo batteries. When invariably it becomes clear that they don't and "outsource" manufacture, then show me the same records for this imaginary, benevolent, hidden giant that's cool with routinely breaking major order contracts that could instantly turn them into the "persona non grata" of the industry (does "you'll live out the rest of your days in a pain amplifier!" ring a bell with anyone?).
Now, to finally cover the seemingly most baffling aspect of the replacement LiPo aftermarket: the fact that there is so much variance from user to user -- that, indeed, not every satisfied real review is a swindle. When you think about it, the reason is quite obvious and follows from the aforementioned facts: because the replacement battery was taken from another device (i.e. in a used state), the actual wear and tear varies widely and to my knowledge there are only two factors that can help in roughly estimating the likelihood of receiving a near-perfect battery on one hand, vs an utter dud on the other (and one factor merely builds on the worst case scenario of the other):
1. How long has that particular phone model been on the market? Chances are, if it's only been a few months, then the batteries sold come from devices that were smashed, or otherwise rendered inoperable. This means there's a good chance that the battery hasn't gone through too many charge cycles and therefore retains a decent amount of capacity. You could even bank on this knowledge, buy up all batteries at the beginning the moment they start appearing, and later gain an excellent reputation as a seller of quality batteries (yes, LiPo batteries lose capacity even when not in use; OTOH, my Nexus 9 was used for 10 days in December 2015 (before I dropped it and smashed the screen) and remained dormant until the end of last summer. Its battery capacity was 17% when I powered it back up and the AccuBattery app shows remaining capacity to be within 90% of OEM/new rating). Conversely, you could buy them for yourself and keep them for later.
2. If the phone came out some time ago, how much time has gone by since production ended? Because all "replacement batteries" were previously used in existing devices, this helps establish the likelihood that you may still come across a replacement that has seen little use. If it's been years since production ended, it means the probability that any battery you buy has decent remaining charge is very low. But keep in mind: as with anything else involving stochastic math, this means only that the mean remaining capacity of the replacements being sold is low -- not that all of them are. Due to the high number of batteries in circulation, you can apply the central limit theorem of probability theory to establish that the probability function regarding capacity of the replacements forms a Gaussian (bell curve): the vast majority are near the mean, but there are extreme outliers as well (but in diminishingly small quantity). So if you consider yourself blessed by Gaia, you can test this out by ordering a replacement under such circumstances.
As for the rest of us mere mortals: so knowing all this, how badly did I personally get burned? Let's just say, I ordered a replacement for my Nexus 6P last year or the year before (i.e. past production cessation) -- from a well known website that provides excellent DIY repair documents (I feel for the guy because no corporation will logically ever sponsor him, and because I firmly agree with his philosophy; but I'm still miffed after being cheated and cannot ignore this -- so as a compromise, I won't name names) and ended up with a battery that (by rough estimate) about 50-60% of the remaining capacity of the battery I was replacing. That battery was down roughly 50-60% of original capacity -- so you do the math.
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
zszabo said:
Why do you guys keep operating on the assumption that replacement batteries for cell phones that came with sealed in batteries (i.e. essentially all phones manufactured for western markets in the last decade, or so) are actually available? I understand that this perverse business model of selling almost exclusively premium-only products that turn into useless paper weights after ~2 years invariably leads to a desperate hope in the purchaser, which makes them more susceptible to fall for scams that profit from desperation, uncertainty, and the magical thinking that makes up the gap (even I, being aware of the simple facts I'm about to point out, nevertheless fell victim to what of course had to be a cell phone replacement battery scam -- because they all are, to varying degrees, scams; I'll elaborate on that below).
Here are some basic facts:
1. The claim that cell phones would be bulkier if they had replaceable battery is an egregious lie. Look up the dimensions of the last western Android device whose battery was replaceable, the LG V20. It was neither any thicker, nor did it come with a battery with substantially lower capacity than its peers at the time.
2. The claim that a replaceable battery limits the functionality of the phone is dubious at best. Around the time the V20 was still produced, the recent fad was "water proof" cell phones. Except, as I recall, they turned out not so water proof after all. "Water proof" in the end turned out to mean little more than "could be splashed with water, like when taking a shower). And if you read all the restrictions in the EULA on where exactly you were allowed to use the phone without losing warranty, the "water resistant" feature in reality was nothing of the sort. I don''t recall any other similar claims regarding other features that would be severely hampered by a removable battery door, so I'll leave it at this.
Now, to get to the availability of batteries: this may come as a surprise, but manufacturing LiPo batteries is not so trivial (in terms of barrier to entry) that you have all these previously unheard-of (in reality, fly-by-night -- and I'll get to that in a bit) companies that magically produce exact replacements for popular phone models. In fact, phone manufacturers rely on two sources for their batteries:
1. In-house: this is the case with Sony/Samsung/LG/etc. They manufacture both the phones and another division makes the batteries.
2. Contracted manufacturers: This was the case for at least the Huawei made Nexus 6P, where the battery maker was a different entity that was contracted by Huawei to produce the batteries they used in the 6P.
-In the first case, the manufacturers make their own batteries -- for phones that aren't expected to have their batteries replaced. For warranty related issues, they simply issue a new phone and program the existing IMEI into it, making it indistinguishable from the failed device. Salaries in every part of the world have risen, even while the cost of producing electronics monotonically fell at the same time. There was a point in the past where the two lines crossed and it became unprofitable to repair devices, rather than simply replace them and throw the defective device in the trash.
-In the second case, the manufacturer is contractually forbidden from independently making and selling batteries. The extra profit to them is nothing compared to the loss of profit incurred by manufacturers if their planned obsolescence schemes were foiled by a third party, so this exclusivity requirements forms the basis of any such contract.
What the above effectively means is this: one battery per phone. One digitizer per phone. One...of each component in each shell, as well as the shell itself, for each phone. In other words, the idea that there are warehouses full of OEM parts is a remnant of the (relatively recent, thus the misconception) past. Let me be as crystal clear as I can be: when you are buying a so-called OEM component for any device today, what you are receiving -- irrespective of what the seller claims -- is very nearly always a part that was removed from another existing phone that had been in use for X hours before it was scrapped and gutted for parts (*) (and when I say very nearly, this is simply to accommodate the sporadic exceptions to this hard rule that exist; of course, if you brought this up with any distributor, they would insist that all their products are magically exempt from this universal fact).
(*) To put it plainly: when you buy a "replacement battery" for your phone, you are buying an OEM component that may have optionally been rewrapped to make it seem like someone else manufactured it. To that, I have to say: please provide sufficient documentation (photos, public records, etc.) to prove "Polarcell" (or Green Battery, et al.) has the resources / manufacturing capabilities to make their own LiPo batteries. When invariably it becomes clear that they don't and "outsource" manufacture, then show me the same records for this imaginary, benevolent, hidden giant that's cool with routinely breaking major order contracts that could instantly turn them into the "persona non grata" of the industry (does "you'll live out the rest of your days in a pain amplifier!" ring a bell with anyone?).
Now, to finally cover the seemingly most baffling aspect of the replacement LiPo aftermarket: the fact that there is so much variance from user to user -- that, indeed, not every satisfied real review is a swindle. When you think about it, the reason is quite obvious and follows from the aforementioned facts: because the replacement battery was taken from another device (i.e. in a used state), the actual wear and tear varies widely and to my knowledge there are only two factors that can help in roughly estimating the likelihood of receiving a near-perfect battery on one hand, vs an utter dud on the other (and one factor merely builds on the worst case scenario of the other):
1. How long has that particular phone model been on the market? Chances are, if it's only been a few months, then the batteries sold come from devices that were smashed, or otherwise rendered inoperable. This means there's a good chance that the battery hasn't gone through too many charge cycles and therefore retains a decent amount of capacity. You could even bank on this knowledge, buy up all batteries at the beginning the moment they start appearing, and later gain an excellent reputation as a seller of quality batteries (yes, LiPo batteries lose capacity even when not in use; OTOH, my Nexus 9 was used for 10 days in December 2015 (before I dropped it and smashed the screen) and remained dormant until the end of last summer. Its battery capacity was 17% when I powered it back up and the AccuBattery app shows remaining capacity to be within 90% of OEM/new rating). Conversely, you could buy them for yourself and keep them for later.
2. If the phone came out some time ago, how much time has gone by since production ended? Because all "replacement batteries" were previously used in existing devices, this helps establish the likelihood that you may still come across a replacement that has seen little use. If it's been years since production ended, it means the probability that any battery you buy has decent remaining charge is very low. But keep in mind: as with anything else involving stochastic math, this means only that the mean remaining capacity of the replacements being sold is low -- not that all of them are. Due to the high number of batteries in circulation, you can apply the central limit theorem of probability theory to establish that the probability function regarding capacity of the replacements forms a Gaussian (bell curve): the vast majority are near the mean, but there are extreme outliers as well (but in diminishingly small quantity). So if you consider yourself blessed by Gaia, you can test this out by ordering a replacement under such circumstances.
As for the rest of us mere mortals: so knowing all this, how badly did I personally get burned? Let's just say, I ordered a replacement for my Nexus 6P last year or the year before (i.e. past production cessation) -- from a well known website that provides excellent DIY repair documents (I feel for the guy because no corporation will logically ever sponsor him, and because I firmly agree with his philosophy; but I'm still miffed after being cheated and cannot ignore this -- so as a compromise, I won't name names) and ended up with a battery that (by rough estimate) about 50-60% of the remaining capacity of the battery I was replacing. That battery was down roughly 50-60% of original capacity -- so you do the math.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is one place to purchase genuine LG BL-T9 batteries and that is at the official parts distributor for LG:
lg.encompass.com/item/10389517/
brisalta said:
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
There is one place to purchase genuine LG BL-T9 batteries and that is at the official parts distributor for LG:
lg.encompass.com/item/10389517/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the problem with that is that then I can buy a new phone instead. I have no need for 7 batteries at the same time. Min order $200 for credit card outside US.