Develop Bugs

WinMo 7 on my EVO?

Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?

Considering that WM7 is about 4-6 months out from even being released, it is probably a little silly to be talking about this right now.

Housoft said:
Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?
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Click to collapse
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.

You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.

MrDSL said:
You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.
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Or seeing WinMo 6.x on the EVO

timothydonohue said:
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.
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This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.

Thank you for the valid responses I'm just trying to wrap my head around the cell phone scene so the input was much appreciated.
To the others, well, thank you for trolling. Who woulda thought that a legitimate question located in the legitimate forum would be so ridiculously stupid, amirite?

ok i will be the first
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

there is the OS Licensing cost.
as i understand it, Android is free (more free beer than free speech but that's a different thread). Microsoft is not ever free.
hence, if you hack android you're a potential nerd...if you hack windows you're a potential criminal.
kinda the same reason we don't put the apple os on devices...it's closed source.
oh yeah...and then there is the most important question... why would you want to defile your EVO like that?

Junon said:
This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.
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Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

SharkUW said:
Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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not correct. WinMo7 is using ARM instructions just the same as WinMo6, WinMo5, 2003, Android, and everyone else unless you know something I don't.
Even further WinMo7 will most likely run on Snapdragon chips... so we can pull the necessary drivers from other systems.
The only thing that would be needed is either a haRET style bootloader but for WinMo or a dual bootloader that can load either WinMo7 or Android.

Next WP7 OS update

So one of Microsoft's big features for WP7 over WM is that OS updates can be sent out directly by MS to all models, eliminating the previous delays from device manufacturers and operators. The great benefit here is not only for all users getting access to all new OS features, but a really important aspect is limiting fragmentation of the platform for developers. I.e. Developers don't need the huge hassle of trying to support all types of hardware and OS to get the highest number of users for their app. This is what killed Windows Mobile, and ultimately is going to kill Android if you read the story about Angry Birds.
So how about a vote? Do you think that Microsoft will hold up to the promise that they will release the OS updates to all WP7 hardware at the same time?

Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.

markgamber said:
Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.
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Wasn't once, Sidekick anyone?

I think that they will update all the devices at the same time and I think that all of the new WP7 devices have a good amount of sales and so they should update all of them.

I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.

blahism said:
I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.
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I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...

indiekiduk said:
I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...
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Click to collapse
If an OEM wants to push a device-specific update, they submit it to Microsoft and Microsoft will push it out after approval (the carrier may need to approve as well). Microsoft, of course, could potentially fix this themselves if the OEM refuses to fix it but I can't imagine that happening.
Microsoft has developed a vast majority of the drivers. Again, I just can't see Microsoft making a new feature that...
1. Relies on a driver and/or...
2. The driver isn't written by MS
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/

If you consider how HTC does it, they add their custom features in an app. HTC has wanted to incorporate Sense into their WP7 offerings. But MS has not allowed it. Instead they compensate by adding Sense-like features to the HTC Hub. I believe this is the extent of any customization among various handset makers.

RustyGrom said:
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/
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So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!

indiekiduk said:
So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!
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I agree that it's definitely a bit strange. But let's just see how this works out in practice. In theory Android can get updates super fast and in theory the carriers can block iPhone updates. Microsoft is still controlling the process, not the OEMs or carriers. The carriers understandably don't want to run untested code on their networks. Microsoft is giving them the option to delay/block. If they abuse it, Microsoft could just give them the middle finger and release them directly. It sounds like the carriers are going to play ball. The ones that don't will certainly get a bad rap and could lose customers over it.

We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!

adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
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Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
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That's the kind of crap that killed WinMo for me. Three times with three different phones I ran into the problem of video "tearing". Three times I emailed Microsoft support, HTC support and AT&T support about the problem and three times they were all content to point fingers at each other. Microsoft says it was a problem with HTC's drivers. HTC says it was a problem with the carrier not approving whatever updates and AT&T says if you want to solve the problem buy this new phone. And I did that twice to find the latest and greatest had the same problem, no one actually did anything. What was worse was finding updates on HTC's site that I couldn't apply to my phone because they were tied to particular carriers and my carrier, of course, wasn't one of them. The worst kind of planned obsolescence. That was when I said the hell with WinMo and bought an iPhone and all that garbage went away. When it had a problem, I went to Apple. Period. Updates came from Apple. Period. And they've only recently stopped updating the original iPhone after how long? Apple cut out the carrier for a reason and has set the bar that Microsoft should at least have the decency to meet if not exceed if they expect to be taken seriously.

vetvito said:
Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I agree things were safer for users with the Nexus one, but they've stopped selling it now for whatever reason. I'd love to find out why they decided to do that because that model was a major advantage. All new Android users are going to hit this issue which is what killed WinMo as stated by markgamber.
Also you can't really say what will happen with WP7 because it remains to be seen what will actually happen when its update time. Actually it won't be until the 2nd update we'll find out if people with the old models are screwed over. It'll actually be less of a big deal if Microsoft take 1 year between OS updates because most users will want new hardware anyway, however it could still be a major disaster if manufacturers blame MS for pushing out an untested OS upgrade that breaks thousands of phones. I expect there will be some exemption like hardware of over 2 years old does not get upgrades from MS, that would get them off the hook slightly.
I agree that Apple is great for the consumer, if there is any problem Apple fix it, they control the whole experience, anything you buy on the app store will work on hardware up to 2 years old. However for developers its not such a great picture. The app store just breaks even, Apple aren't interested in app developers being successful, they only built the app store because jailbreaks were doing it anyway, previously they only planned for javascript web apps, and if anyone tries to do anything innovative outside the restrictions of the SDK their app gets banned and they get threatened their developer account will be cancelled. However there was a some money to be made by some lucky people, and everyone else made at least more than building windows mobile apps in the old days. Anyway Apple make all their money from the hardware they don't need to make money from some 3rd party dev making a good app. Google also don't care about developers, the market place is terrible and its widely known that devs with apps on both platforms get like 0.3% of their sales on Android. But as with Apple, Google don't care about the developers either. With Android, Google attract phone manufacturers by offering an OS for free, which they used to need to pay MS $30 per license or whatever. And by having tons of phones out there, Google make a ton of cash from the ads in the built in apps google search, and google maps. They have no need to support developers, and if the platform becomes fragmented they don't care because as long as they sell more phones they make more money.
It remains to be seen what the point of the WP7 marketplace is to MS. My friend has the #1 shooter app and sells 1 a day so MS will be running the store at a loss. And if they need to give WP7 away for free to compete with Android for traction there really is no hope.

You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.

bowpay said:
You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.
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Click to collapse
Just a bit of a correction:
iPhone stayed with AT&T on the domestic market, it is deployed across various providers on the international market.

To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.

Regardless of how it is made available I have heard that an update including copy /paste will be ready end Jan...

robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing that matters is that a given program runs on all WP7 phones equally. That's where Apple currently excels and why Android has been called "fragmented". What they look like and what programs are included with a given phone on a given carrier don't matter.

Hacking WP7 - any REAL beginner guides?

Hi
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been covered off already - well - not to the level of detail I need anyway.
I came to the xda forums after a friend of mine suggested that there were hacks available.
It's clear that 'something' is available, but what I am not finding is:
A) A SIMPLE guide that shows us people totally new to phone 'hacking' how to do it, from start to finish, with minimal lingo and acronyms.
B) An clear and simple explanation on the different 'hacking' options available
C) The reason you would want to do it? From what I can see, the only benefit seems to be a few pointless homebrew apps that you can download - and for the risk involved...why would you chance it?
Don't get me wrong, tinkering in itself is the reason you would want to do it - it's fun - but I can't help thinking that the WP7 side of 'hacking' doesn't offer much reward.
Would really appreciate any advice/help/links with my questions.
Thanks

Did not know whether to bother answering or not but okay. First welcome to XDA, uhhh in easy laymens terms hacking is not for the inexperienced and it is not totally idiot proof so you should have some fair knowledge of the systems and what they do. Don't hack if you need a kindergarten book to explain it all out for ya simple as that. WP is closer too iOS than Android main point being it is the most secure as far as I personally care of the 3, and the system is just as smooth and fluid as iOS. No there are not alot of Homebrew available at the moment, but if you happen to have a phone able to be fully unlocked then you have the option to use many functions that were not available before.
Device specific is where you should such that search block is your best friend, nobody here is going to write a full guide to the whole forum section for every single new hack and crack that comes out. If you want to you are more than welcome.

Thanks pal
I'm ok with the concepts of hacking, just not specifically this OS.
I'm technically minded and do a lot of similar stuff elsewhere, but when it comes to the phone that I use daily, and comntracted for another 12 months with and have no experience with tinkering WP7 - Im slightly more nervous.
I guess my main issue was the d&h forum for WP7. Every sticky/thread is far too long and they all contain a lot of acryonyms that a new WP7 hacker wouldn't understand. So my forum instinct is to look for the sticky that says "start here - everything explained" - but there isn't one?!
It's almost like "where do people start if there is no starting point"?

As far as covering a good amount of info, this post is a good one:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1299134
Don't really think there is a way to avoid all the jargon though, if there is something that isn't explained well it should be simple to find information to fill in the gaps. The terms used are very specific to the environment, so anything returned in a search would probably be relevant.
The most common homebrew option is Interop Unlock, Samsung models of phone are the easiest to unlock. This allows you to use native code that has not been wrapped in a tidy c# class.
The benefit of all this is that your phone is a full fledged computer that by default is locked down like an appliance. Developing additional homebrew apps allow you to get further phone customization out of your device, and therefore the most value out of your purchase.

I for myself thought about unlocking my device considering the risks involve. but I weighed the consequences. Thus, I end up now, having a fully unlocked HTC 7 Mozart with a custom rom. I am happier with my device now, I can do BT transfers, explore the folders within my device, install more applications than the usual apps/games from the marketplace, and tweak my device. One more thing, when my device was still running on stock rom, battery life is shorter, now I have 1.5x the battery life.
MY CONCLUSION: unlock your device's potential
as for the guides, yes it is not really like spoon feeding, but contents of the guides/tutorials are somehow progressive. one can learn from them, so that on the next development, we can do the "hacking" easier since we understood how the process goes. This is why it is called development. Cheers!

before i can give you advice on what hack that you can use, what is the name your device that way there are more specific hacks that we can talk about.

Hi
Thanks for the helpful replies.
I have a HTC Trophy. I'm doing the SD card upgrade next week to start with, so I can finally put all my music on it, so thought i'd look at hacking it at the same time.
Cheers
Sent from my 7 Trophy using Board Express

look at the HTC part of this guide, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271963

lovenokia said:
look at the HTC part of this guide, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271963
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Click to collapse
Looks like a good guide but how am I meant to know if I have a first or second gen phone....there's no definitive list?! And I can't remember what updates I have.
This is a nightmare - I'll give it a miss

check your processor, as far as i know, if your phone has 1.5GHz then it's a gen2, otherwise, it's just gen1

Let me at least give the "legitimate" talk about unlocking your phone:
For $99/year, sign up for a developers account with Microsoft (create.msdn.com). You can unlock up to 3 separate devices officially for app development. Then you can build and deploy all kinds of .xaps to your phone. To top it off, you can get the betas and early OS upgrades (had Mango almost 6 months before my friend got it from his vendor). Ultimately, you can even release your own apps to the marketplace for sale or for free.
sounds like, since this is a phone you use every day, this might be an investment worth considering. Its an easy and legitimate way for someone not too experienced with the phone's innards to get it unlocked and get exposed to how things work. Plus if you back up your phone vefore you unlock it, and something goes wrong, you haven't done anything thats voided a warranty. If the OS crashes, try returning to the "pre-unlocked" backup and bring it back to the store saying it crashed. They'll replace it. Nice deal, considering most Windows phones run around $500 to replace.
Now as for unlocking it via other means: maybe you dont want to sell apps. Maybe you dont really want to give microsoft a credit card for $100 every year. Maybe you want to just do more than a developer unlock will get you - like load a whole new aspect of the operating system. Or maybe you just dont want to pay to unlock your phone. Understandable, i suppose (though for MOST people, a developer unlock is more than sufficient). There are options, but they will require a lot of time and investigation (maybe even translation) to get it right, because the WP7 is new. The devices are many - its not like having a single hardware baseline to crack - like the iPhone. And to throw another monkey in the wrench, they did a full-fledged update to the OS not 6 months ago. So - no - not a a lot of "beginners" guides out there. Even for experienced people, an unofficial unlock is still a tricky feat. Take a look at the number of posts that have to do with phones randomly "re-locking" themsleves. Hell, I'm a legit developer and my phone "re-locked" itself last night. (turns out MS has a "lease" on deve unlocks that you need to physically update every year by un-registering and re-registering the device)
hope this was informative and helps.

I found exactly the same problem. Today I saw this post in the HTC Titan forum which helped me understand all the different unlocks that you hear mentioned on the web.
Hope this helped

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
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just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
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wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
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Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
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Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
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Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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I will check it in next week

Keeping Windows Mobile 10 alive...

Hey everyone,
There is so much work on windows mobile 10 from all the users of XDA, and all the people we don't know about... does anyone have any idea's as to the following, or new ideas, to get a few more years out of windows mobile or even the possibility to revive it?:
Possible petition ideas:
a) a petition from x number of people to make Project Astoria available to all phones/select phone builds in the current windows phone 10 so that we can use Android apps (at least get continued app updates for a while longer using android apk's)
b) a petition from x number of people to make windows 10 updates for set devices through a product key purchase... we pay $$-$$$ for windows 10, 8, 7 licences... why not get a key for wm10 and then wm11 when it comes out and so on? if microsoft supports all the current phones hardware and manufacture a few new models... maybe this way we could revive it?
c) a petition from x number of people to continue updates for x time frame so that we can at least get a bit more out of it, maybe enough time to get some app developers to launch a single update or two for applications we really want using another petition from us.
[edit] One other idea I have thought of is maybe microsoft could release the code for astoria and windows 10 mobile... maybe for open source?
would be nice if the incredible people out there wanting to keep this alive had the tools to do so... could we petition this or approach them another way? [/edit]
Maybe a combination of all ideas into a petition and see what they decide to do. I personally have little money but if we all pledged $30+ to an update, had 1000 people willing to do it, I think microsoft would consider $30000 as an incentive?
Microsoft dropped this because of only having a tiny % of the market and the costs involved on maintaining it, so is there a way we can increase the percentage of devices if we get this working?
As I said above, if we could buy product keys for our phones to enable continued support, and also if we used a petition or other method to encourage and get results from Microsoft, then we could probably get other app developers of our choosing to follow suit (like Whatsapp, Waze, Viber, etc).
A petition is the only thing I can think of right now that just needs names and details, but we may have a legal stand point with newer devices getting continued support based on how long the expected support is for other devices from microsoft (what is the newest windows phone released with wm10?), google, apple etc... all ideas welcome
Example: in Australia all devices are warranted for a year, if sold here or manufactured and sold here... and that year is extended and often because someone will argue it to a tribunal (part of the fair trading route to take up matters with a manufacturer or seller) and say something along the lines of "TV sets used to last 10-15 years, my $2000 TV broke after the 2nd year, and the manufacturer/shop wont replace it" usually I get replacements after the 1 year warranty and I hear about entire Cars etc getting replaced entirely... Maybe if hardware has to work for an expected time, does software (that cannot be changed) that comes with a device? what about 3rd party applications for that software?
Any lawyers in the US, UK, Australia or another country reading this?.. Could you get us a few years continued updates with a similar clause?
Any route that works may even lead to reviving Windows Mobile
I would love some serious feedback guys, but please, don't just comment "No, why would Microsoft bother" or "I see no reason to try and revive"
What I hope to see is ideas, us working together... let's see if we can do this, anyone who wants to try or contribute please just say "yes" if you have little time
[edit] By the way for people needing instagram, pandora/spotify, facebook etc, I have a list of applications and links to .appx's that run (not always without a crash) currently (24th June 2019) and cost nothing. [/edit]

I wouldn't mind this. Still use a Lumia 640. I guess were it to fail, there's always trying to put WoA on Android phones...

Hi OP
I read your post and this can be a fantastic idea, but i didnt see soo much interest from the guys here in WM10.
Im still with the doubt about Whatsapp working beyond 31-12-2019 and nobody answer anything about that in my post. So i think, if people dont get "moved" about the posibility of having phones without whatsapp since 1-1-2020.... i really think that people just doesnt care about this OS.