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Hi,
I've just purchased a couple of cheap batteries off ebay and just wondered what was the best way of using them and charging them?
I've just recently calibrated the battery on the Z the other day (and now been getting upto 22 hours on a single charge! Yay!) and wondered do I need to do the same for the batteries I just bought as they come with their own charger.
I just want to get the best out of the phone and batteries so wanted to know what's the best thing to do.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.
Batteries aren't calibrated, the battery meter on the phone is calibrated (basically, so the volt meter on the phone knows what voltages correspond to "full" battery and "empty"). Li ion batteries don't need to be conditioned like the old NiCad type. Really, you don't need to do anything. Li ion batteries should be stored with about 40% charge according to the link below. They should have shipped with some charge, and hold the charge pretty well. Just check them once in a while if stored for a long time.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
wileykat said:
I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.
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No! Do not run the batteries until empty. Running a Li ion battery empty can possibly cause it to no longer take a charge. Try not to discharge below 20%. See the link below. The proper way to calibrate the battery meter is charge to full, drain to about 20%, repeat a couple times.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table
And as I've already mentioned in my previous reply, charge/drain cycles on the battery does nothing does nothing to the battery itself. Li ion batteries don't need to be (and can't be) conditioned. Charge/drain cycles only calibrate the battery meter on the phone (possibly incorrectly, if you are just going to then store that battery). So you are just wasting your time.
Also, you shouldn't store the batteries fully charged.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.
What I've done is counter to what people always say about Lithium Ion batteries but I've had good success so I figured I'd share.
I have two batteries, one always lives in the phone and the other lives in an external charger (these can be had for as little as $5 on eBay).
Every morning I look at the phone and if the charge is <50% I pop the other battery off the charger and put it in my pocket. When the phones battery dies (may not be that day) I just swap the battery and when I get home I put the dead one on the external charger.
Periodically if I'm not in a hurry, I will even go so far as to power the phone on in recovery mode after the battery has died, it will run for a bit longer in recovery (sometimes as long as an hour) sucking a little bit more juice out of it.
I routinely get more than 2 days out of a battery charge.
I don't doubt that my method reduces the overall lifespan of my batteries but charge time is more important to me than battery lifetime and I end up picking up a new battery every 6 months ago and taking my oldest one out of service.
wileykat said:
Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.
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No problem. I used to think the same, about draining the battery until the phone died, then charging to full, to calibrate the battery meter. Until Jackos over in the Rhodium forum informed me otherwise. I've also read pretty occasional posts over there (and likely other phones) by various users that discharged their battery too low, and then couldn't start their phones or charge the battery. Every phone is different, and I think a user on here said the Vision has better safety measures to prevent this. But best to play it safe. There is really no benefit to intentionally draining your battery to 0% versus 20%. Your battery meter will still be plenty accurate enough.
Ah ok thanks guys a lot of useful info here.
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
Loving the Desire Z at the moment, I think I'll have one spare battery on me when at work or commuting on public transport and one in the car.
Thanks again!
BiMU said:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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They both charge fine either on the external charger or in the phone but in general I've had better performance with OEM batteries than with the generics, I suspect that there is a wide range or quality among generic batteries where the OEMs are more consistent.
Right now I have one OEM and one Generic, despite the Generic having a higher MAh rating and being newer in general I get more time on a charge off the OEM battery.
You can check eBay for a good deal on OEM batteries, just be sure to read the item description carefully to make sure you are getting a real OEM battery as opposed to an "OEM-type".
BiMU said:
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
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If you are going to be swapping batteries frequently, then I would say that there is no point in calibrating the battery meter on the phone. Its never going to be completely correct if you keep swapping the battery. If you are going to use one battery for a long time, I'd say calibrate the battery meter. There is no such thing as calibrating the battery, so obviously no on that.
BiMU said:
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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I'm not sure on this, so maybe others have a better answer. But I'd say as long as the voltage is the same, it wouldn't matter if you used the phone or an external charger to charge the batteries.
From what I've read, Li ion batteries have safety circuitry to prevent over-charge, so you don't need to worry about the charger having that.
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Charg...UM12/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1296229895&sr=8-5
Alright, I picked up this setup a few months ago and I really enjoy the battery and the charger.. Well, I really don't like taking the battery out every day. So, my question is why does the phone stop charging at a certain point? Maybe I am not understanding when to clean the battery stats..
When the battery charges off the wall charger, it last way longer.. But when it charges over night through the phone, it doesn't last worth of a crap..
Can there be a change somewhere in the code, to let the battery charge longer?
your thinking of a sbc kernel or "trickle charging" by using one of these kernels you'll get what your aiming for although there are many reports of batterys frying or even melting. Ive never experienced any problems before though.
There are a number of available kernels that 'hack' the method by which the device charges. Use at your own risk, as there are potential implications for the life (and stability) of the battery.
Some relevant links:
Your battery gauge is lying to you (and it's not such a bad thing)
My thoughts on Over-charging Batteries
[KERNEL][AOSP][TESTING] Superior Battery Charging
If you search for "Superior Batter Charging" or "Super Battery Charging" kernels, you will find a number of them, including a number of disagreements regarding their implementation.
Edited to add more links:
BATTERY EMITTING "SMOKE" (Trickle-Charge Kernel most likely responsible?!) **PICTURE*
Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*
So does the wall charger trickle charge the battery like the hacked kernels?
Will the wall charger damage the battery like the hacked battery kernels, or does the wall charger have intelligence enough not to overcharge it?
There are countless different external chargers on the market, so there's no 100% accurate answer to that. Most external chargers are applying a safe charge in a similar manner as if you charged the phone directly while it was turned off. I don't know specifically of a dangerously designed charger out there, but I'm simply acknowledging that one could possibly be out there.
In the specific case of the linked product above on Amazon, the product description says,
Built-in overcharge protection
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In fact, it says that is using a charge current of 350mA on the battery. That's very gentle, but also why a number of the reviews say that it takes longer to charge with it than charging the phone directly.
userjf said:
So does the wall charger trickle charge the battery like the hacked kernels?
Will the wall charger damage the battery like the hacked battery kernels, or does the wall charger have intelligence enough not to overcharge it?
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The wall charger is set to stop at a certain point. To all I know it doesn't overcharge. I know my battery lasts longer.
4x4r8d said:
The wall charger is set to stop at a certain point. To all I know it doesn't overcharge. I know my battery lasts longer.
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Sounds like a similar or identical charge when you turn off your phone and just plug it in.
It charges it more but will also shorten your battery life in the long run, though I'd assume it wouldn't be very dramatic. If you kept tabs on it you'd probably notice a significant difference in a couple months on which battery holds a charge better (phone on charged vs charger charged)
I found a good combination for me was to get the HTC extended battery and use a Kernel that is less power hungry (such as chad's incredikernel).
With a silicone case around the extended battery, it really is a nice setup.
But whatever works for you, the battery swapping would drive me insane though.
I just got some new batteries for my i-9000. I am wondering, I have always heard LIthium batteries do not like to be fully discharged. I want to perform a calibration on the new battery, but all the battery calibration apps say
1.Fully charge the battery
2.Press calibrate battery button.
3.Run the phone fully flat until the battery dies.
4.Fully charge the battery to 100% uninterrupted.
Now, step 3, going all the way until the phone dies, is that a good thing to do or a bad thing to a new battery?
Letting your cellphone's battery drain until the phone dies is a normal thing that won't damage your battery, because the battery won't really go to 0% charge.
Cellphones always shutdown it-self when the battery levels get too low (like 3%), to avoid the damage it would do in the Li-ion battery if it would go to 0%. So you have nothing to worry about.
yeah mine shuts down around 2-3% percent for that reason. You'll be fine.
thanks.
.
just doing it once when you get a new phone or after noticing horrible battery life on a newly flashed ROM can work wonders
other than those times, I only let my phone get to 20-40% before I plug it back in
I Use BOS Gingersense Port From Kingdom, My battery is good and i didnt do that whole discharging,recharging crap.
calibration works for me...
Calibration even worked for me too, on my Galaxy 3. Previously i was getting backup of only 1 day, but after calibration i get around 1.5 days. I know its not much improvement, but still its worth.
And you don't need calibrate frequently. Just once in two weeks is fine. And I've heard that deep discharge once a while is infact good for the battery. Correct me if I'm wrong.
waiting for phone to completely die right now. One question though can I turn on phone while charging or should I just leave it off after dieing?
I called Sammy, they told me letting the phone turn off by itself because the battery can't power it is bad for the battery in the long run, they said you can't really see the bad effect that time, they told me, we have learned on are testing that when you see the low battery message pop up that is where you need to charge the phone, that warning is where the calibration starts, now draining it to the point that the phone turn itself off is bad for the battery. Do you believe that?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA Premium App
Only if you leave the cell empty.
It's best to recharge a cell as soon as possible if you have discharged it.
Discharge/charge cycles should be kept to a minimum, ie when you first get the battery, when you are sure you need to recalibrate, and when you've got no choice.
Top up charges are best for lithium batteries.
The charging circuitry in the phone should protect the battery from over discharge. It also protects the phone from overcharging. However, just like a spring, it's the constant charge/discharge that damages a battery. I would not run it down every day but it should not damage the battery, only cause it to wear out faster.
Source: I'm an electrical engineer.
Try to avoid frequent full discharges. Occasional full discharges are okay.
Lots of uncertainty here, lol.
A new Li-Ion cell will output ~4.2V when fully charged and ~3V when it is totally discharged. Every single smartphone I've owned would shut down before the cell dropped below 3.5V. Draining your phone's battery until it dies will not hurt the battery or your phone. No worries about batteries catching fire.
Repeated or frequent full discharges will wear your battery out much faster, though.
I'm ordering a spare battery; what is the best way to give it it's first charge / how should I condition it?
I don't think a lithium ion battery needs to be "conditioned" since it does not have the "memory" effect. It's usually the battery stats on the phone that can mess up the reading.
I would probably just make sure it is fully charged when switching them to be more accurate. But, I'm no expert...
Vangelis13 said:
I'm ordering a spare battery; what is the best way to give it it's first charge / how should I condition it?
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Thanks for the reply.
I'm fairly sure I'd read somewhere that it should be fully charged before turning on the phone for the first time & after that do a couple full cycles (full-empty-full) etc..?
Yes, a full charge before using is recommended (I've also heard to let it sit on the charger for a couple more hours after it is charged helps) and maybe a few full "cycles" after that. But, like I said, I'm no expert and I, personally, have had no issues with my battery
Vangelis13 said:
Thanks for the reply.
I'm fairly sure I'd read somewhere that it should be fully charged before turning on the phone for the first time & after that do a couple full cycles (full-empty-full) etc..?
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live4nyy said:
I don't think a lithium ion battery needs to be "conditioned" since it does not have the "memory" effect. It's usually the battery stats on the phone that can mess up the reading.
I would probably just make sure it is fully charged when switching them to be more accurate. But, I'm no expert...
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True, it's not for the battery but for the phone stats. Lithium ion batteries are fully conditioned at the factory before being sent out. It's the last step in the actual cell manufacturing process.
Yes, I work for a lithium ion battery manufacturer. We make larger cells (not the tiny ones in a phone battery) but I have contacts and friends that work for other manufacturers that do make the little ones and they're basically all the same.
i ordered too 1800mah batteries cause i couldnt find any 1950s...they both arrived dead i waited 30 mins to charge and turn the phone on, and the other one is extremely dead it shows charging for a few minutes and then the red light turns off
so far the one i charged to 100% isnt working how i would have liked it dropped to 50% within a few hours and i charged it to 100 again and it dropped to 80 very quickly im gonna let it die tonight hopefully i get them to work good
Sorry about your bad experience.
Don't know what you purchased or the vendor, but I purchased a 3200 mAh batt from Siedio and am quite happy with it. I've been using it for over a month and get heavy use of my Atrix. High quality batteries are not cheap. Don't get the $20 dollar specials. (I have no financial interest in Siedio, I'm sure there are other vendors with quality batteries).
Battery calibration has been a challenge but I think I have a solution. I'll know in a few days as I'm presently recalibrating. It would have been so much easier if Moto had added a 5 cent current sensor to the phone.
I wouldn't worry too much about conditioning it. Just use it like you regularly would any other battery. Most horrible battery life comes from the way Android handles the battery stats. In my experience, most Li-ion batteries seem to really get their most effective use cycles after about a week or 2 of consistent usage. If you're experiencing some really drastic battery drops though, that's when it may be time to recalibrate the battery stats or start questioning the rom/radio/kernel that you're using.
k0sun7eash3d said:
I wouldn't worry too much about conditioning it. Just use it like you regularly would any other battery. Most horrible battery life comes from the way Android handles the battery stats. In my experience, most Li-ion batteries seem to really get their most effective use cycles after about a week or 2 of consistent usage. If you're experiencing some really drastic battery drops though, that's when it may be time to recalibrate the battery stats or start questioning the rom/radio/kernel that you're using.
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Yep. However, unless you're impatient, charging it to full shouldn't do you any harm
For Lithium ion batteries, I've always put them immediately on the charger, let them go to 100%. Then unplug and let it completely die (that is, let it get so low the phone turns itself off) without pluging in. Then charge back to 100%. After that, use as normal. Doing this has gotten me long battery life, both short and long term compared to others I know who dont do that.
When I bought my phone the Bell representative said to fully charge then discharge the battery. I thought that you aren't supposed to do this though because Li-Ion batteries lose some of their maximum life when you do that. Only Ni-Cad batteries needed conditioning like that.
I could be wrong though. Would be nice to know proper procedure for this kind of thing
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
You're right, lithium ion batteries should not be fully discharged but it does help the first time to get the battery reading accurate. After that just charge whenever. It only really becomes a problem if you let it go dead too often.
Sparx10 said:
When I bought my phone the Bell representative said to fully charge then discharge the battery. I thought that you aren't supposed to do this though because Li-Ion batteries lose some of their maximum life when you do that. Only Ni-Cad batteries needed conditioning like that.
I could be wrong though. Would be nice to know proper procedure for this kind of thing
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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live4nyy said:
You're right, lithium ion batteries should not be fully discharged but it does help the first time to get the battery reading accurate. After that just charge whenever. It only really becomes a problem if you let it go dead too often.
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+1. There's two reasons store reps tell you to discharge and charge the battery at least one complete cycle before using the phone. The first is that they're stuck in the past and think li-ion tech is the same as NiMH. The second and more sound reason is that it helps to set the battery statistics. If you're one of those people who loves to mod their phones right when they open the box, you could theoretically bypass this step by rooting and charging to 100%, and then just doing a manual battery recalibration by wiping the battery stats.
jbg1 said:
i ordered too 1800mah batteries cause i couldnt find any 1950s...they both arrived dead i waited 30 mins to charge and turn the phone on, and the other one is extremely dead it shows charging for a few minutes and then the red light turns off
so far the one i charged to 100% isnt working how i would have liked it dropped to 50% within a few hours and i charged it to 100 again and it dropped to 80 very quickly im gonna let it die tonight hopefully i get them to work good
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Yeah - if these are the Chinese jobs that came with the charger on Ebay, I got them too. They drop REALLY fast down to 5%, then I get at least another 24 hours out of them. It's crazy. I have tried to recalibrate by removing battery stats, but these haven't gotten any more accurate in several full charge / discharge cycles.
I suppose I will use them as spares, and just understand that the meter is not accurate on them. I still get a minimum two days with these cells. Will see how long they last. With batteries, you do get what you pay for.
Just got the Note 2, and want to make sure that I treat it really well. I've long been uncertain on the best way to treat batteries. Am I supposed to drain it as closer to 0% and then charge it back to 100%, or is it fine to charge it whenever, even if I'm only down to 62% or something at the end of the day? Seeing as how it's brand new, is there anything I should be doing in the immediate future to properly condition the Note 2's battery? Thanks
You can fully charge the battery drops below 20%.
You can do whatever you want. New batteries technology much better than before
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
I charge mine every night regardless of percentage (usually around 15% but i sometimes charge over night even at 60%). My battery is still as good as the day i got it.
No need to drain and charge.
Some people say that it reduces the number of cycles of charges the battery can have but it wont make any noticable impact for about 2 years anyway when you're likely to get a new phone anyway, otherwise the cost of a replacement battery is well worth the convenience of charging however you like lol
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
with lithium ion batteries, you get more overall charges if you charge it before the battery dies.
ie. 100% drain gives you 500 charges
50% drain gives you 1300 charges.
25% drain gives you 2000 charges.
or something like that. also with lithium ion batteries, its bad to completely drain it. when a lithium ion battery is completely drained, it reduces the overall capacity of the battery. most phones have safeguards in place to prevent a complete drain, but leaving a dead battery out for too long without recharging isnt good.
plus, lithium ion batteries dont have the 'memory effect' so draining them fully is pointless. NiCd and NiMH batteries are the ones that lose voltage if not completely discharged regularly.
Dude ... the battery management technology is good in theory. . To understand. ... but in practical use. ..go ahead and charge it as you like. ..the battery will last good for 2-3 yrs... then you can replace the battery. ..note 2 has a replaceable cheap battery unlike the other new devices that are coming out with no option to replace them
Just enjoy :beer:
scribbled from my note 2 (N7100)
You should charge the lithium battery whenever u can, charging more doesnt hurt it really but draining it to 0% is going to hurt it
JJ2525 said:
Just got the Note 2, and want to make sure that I treat it really well. I've long been uncertain on the best way to treat batteries. Am I supposed to drain it as closer to 0% and then charge it back to 100%, or is it fine to charge it whenever, even if I'm only down to 62% or something at the end of the day? Seeing as how it's brand new, is there anything I should be doing in the immediate future to properly condition the Note 2's battery? Thanks
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Since it's Li-ion battery, it's recommended to partially charge whenever you can to preserve the battery longevity and fully charge it from 0% maybe once a month.