Develop Bugs

I just bought a few spare batteries... How to use?

Hi,
I've just purchased a couple of cheap batteries off ebay and just wondered what was the best way of using them and charging them?
I've just recently calibrated the battery on the Z the other day (and now been getting upto 22 hours on a single charge! Yay!) and wondered do I need to do the same for the batteries I just bought as they come with their own charger.
I just want to get the best out of the phone and batteries so wanted to know what's the best thing to do.
Thanks in advance,
Jason

I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.

Batteries aren't calibrated, the battery meter on the phone is calibrated (basically, so the volt meter on the phone knows what voltages correspond to "full" battery and "empty"). Li ion batteries don't need to be conditioned like the old NiCad type. Really, you don't need to do anything. Li ion batteries should be stored with about 40% charge according to the link below. They should have shipped with some charge, and hold the charge pretty well. Just check them once in a while if stored for a long time.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

wileykat said:
I would run them flat (keep phone on until it dies, turn it back on, let it die, turn it on, let it die, turn it on...... until it boots no more) before charging fully/overnight.
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No! Do not run the batteries until empty. Running a Li ion battery empty can possibly cause it to no longer take a charge. Try not to discharge below 20%. See the link below. The proper way to calibrate the battery meter is charge to full, drain to about 20%, repeat a couple times.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table
And as I've already mentioned in my previous reply, charge/drain cycles on the battery does nothing does nothing to the battery itself. Li ion batteries don't need to be (and can't be) conditioned. Charge/drain cycles only calibrate the battery meter on the phone (possibly incorrectly, if you are just going to then store that battery). So you are just wasting your time.
Also, you shouldn't store the batteries fully charged.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.

What I've done is counter to what people always say about Lithium Ion batteries but I've had good success so I figured I'd share.
I have two batteries, one always lives in the phone and the other lives in an external charger (these can be had for as little as $5 on eBay).
Every morning I look at the phone and if the charge is <50% I pop the other battery off the charger and put it in my pocket. When the phones battery dies (may not be that day) I just swap the battery and when I get home I put the dead one on the external charger.
Periodically if I'm not in a hurry, I will even go so far as to power the phone on in recovery mode after the battery has died, it will run for a bit longer in recovery (sometimes as long as an hour) sucking a little bit more juice out of it.
I routinely get more than 2 days out of a battery charge.
I don't doubt that my method reduces the overall lifespan of my batteries but charge time is more important to me than battery lifetime and I end up picking up a new battery every 6 months ago and taking my oldest one out of service.

wileykat said:
Really?....
Links added to 'to do' list for later. Thank you pal. I really should research before taking peoples word as gospel.
Nice one.
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No problem. I used to think the same, about draining the battery until the phone died, then charging to full, to calibrate the battery meter. Until Jackos over in the Rhodium forum informed me otherwise. I've also read pretty occasional posts over there (and likely other phones) by various users that discharged their battery too low, and then couldn't start their phones or charge the battery. Every phone is different, and I think a user on here said the Vision has better safety measures to prevent this. But best to play it safe. There is really no benefit to intentionally draining your battery to 0% versus 20%. Your battery meter will still be plenty accurate enough.

Ah ok thanks guys a lot of useful info here.
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
Loving the Desire Z at the moment, I think I'll have one spare battery on me when at work or commuting on public transport and one in the car.
Thanks again!

BiMU said:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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They both charge fine either on the external charger or in the phone but in general I've had better performance with OEM batteries than with the generics, I suspect that there is a wide range or quality among generic batteries where the OEMs are more consistent.
Right now I have one OEM and one Generic, despite the Generic having a higher MAh rating and being newer in general I get more time on a charge off the OEM battery.
You can check eBay for a good deal on OEM batteries, just be sure to read the item description carefully to make sure you are getting a real OEM battery as opposed to an "OEM-type".

BiMU said:
So to sum up:
- I can charge the batteries normally on the phone without need for calibrating either phone or battery.
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If you are going to be swapping batteries frequently, then I would say that there is no point in calibrating the battery meter on the phone. Its never going to be completely correct if you keep swapping the battery. If you are going to use one battery for a long time, I'd say calibrate the battery meter. There is no such thing as calibrating the battery, so obviously no on that.
BiMU said:
And one more question:
- Are there adverse affects from charging the official battery or ebay batteries on the external charger?
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I'm not sure on this, so maybe others have a better answer. But I'd say as long as the voltage is the same, it wouldn't matter if you used the phone or an external charger to charge the batteries.
From what I've read, Li ion batteries have safety circuitry to prevent over-charge, so you don't need to worry about the charger having that.

EVO will NOT fully charge a 3500 batt

The EVO, WILL NOT fully charge a 3500 battery without a SBC KERNEL. PERIOD!
Due to the charging algoritm that HTC uses in their Sense kernels, the charger will not stay active long enoigh to charge it 6 hours. Yes, it takes 6 hours to charge a 3500,not 2.5 hours.
If you continue to use any 3500 battery without using SBC, you will kill the battery in short order. Charging a lith ion bettrry to 80% day after day, will drastically reduce run time.
I have tested this and documented it on this site for many months.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That is true because the evo wasnt made to charge the 3500 batts, but also unless you have the seidio 3500MAH battery most likely the batts arent going to last you long to begin with, because those cheap ebay ones everyone buys well lets just say you get what you pay for!

eggsack said:
The EVO, WILL NOT fully charge a 3500 battery without a SBC KERNEL. PERIOD!
Due to the charging algoritm that HTC uses in their Sense kernels, the charger will not stay active long enoigh to charge it 6 hours. Yes, it takes 6 hours to charge a 3500,not 2.5 hours.
If you continue to use any 3500 battery without using SBC, you will kill the battery in short order. Charging a lith ion bettrry to 80% day after day, will drastically reduce run time.
I have tested this and documented it on this site for many months.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Could you please let me know where you are getting your data for this statement? It is patently false and, if you would like, I can provide you with the correct electrical, charging facts based on actual data, not hyperbole.
Thank you
OotR

My Evo charges my seidio 3500MAH battery just fine.
Lasts 10 hours with medium to heavy use.

Dragonfyr said:
My Evo charges my seidio 3500MAH battery just fine.
Lasts 10 hours with medium to heavy use.
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Yes, it will. It would charge a 7000mAH battery if you could stuff it in your phone.
I mean... if you think that the Evo charger has a "timer" on it to only charge for x amount of time.... just read HTC instructions where it tells you to "... charge for at least 8 hours before use...". So much for the timer idea.
The charge is based on putting a set voltage into the battery at a set current. Then, when the voltage is reached and the current drops by a certain percentage, the foldback in the charge controlling chip will lower the charge voltage and the current. Some chargers, in Stage 4 of a charge will "up load" a small charge to "set" the battery based on individual cell properties. That is a way to balance the battery.
At any rate, the Evo charger ( or just about any other charger ), including a USB connection, will charge a 3500mAH battery just fine.
OOOPS.... I meant to add this, from several manufacturers data sheets on Li-ion batteries:
""It is important to note that trickle charging is not acceptable for lithium batteries" But hey.... What do the battery makers know? LOL
See ya'
OotR

OneoftheRabble said:
Yes, it will. It would charge a 7000mAH battery if you could stuff it in your phone.
I mean... if you think that the Evo charger has a "timer" on it to only charge for x amount of time.... just read HTC instructions where it tells you to "... charge for at least 8 hours before use...". So much for the timer idea.
The charge is based on putting a set voltage into the battery at a set current. Then, when the voltage is reached and the current drops by a certain percentage, the foldback in the charge controlling chip will lower the charge voltage and the current. Some chargers, in Stage 4 of a charge will "up load" a small charge to "set" the battery based on individual cell properties. That is a way to balance the battery.
At any rate, the Evo charger ( or just about any other charger ), including a USB connection, will charge a 3500mAH battery just fine.
OOOPS.... I meant to add this, from several manufacturers data sheets on Li-ion batteries:
""It is important to note that trickle charging is not acceptable for lithium batteries" But hey.... What do the battery makers know? LOL
See ya'
OotR
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I thought that post was a little fishy. I am a R/C car guy and lithium batts have been around for a while...uh they really don't have a problem with what is known as memory so even IF the battery charger cuts off after a while...and I'm pretty sure it doesn't, it would still be okay. But whatever, I mean, I could be wrong and stuff. Thanks for the clarification, BTW.
That is the problem with a lot of forums. I appreciate the fact that you substantiated your remarks with citation. Maybe the moderators should require APA guidelines for all users.

Battery life: frequent micro charges vs more spaced charges

What is best in terms of battery longevity?
1 - Wait until battery level fall below a certain level (and which % is ideal to start charging)
or
2- Charge the battery as frequently soon as possible
Thanks for any advice

Lithium batteries last longer if you do not disharge them all the way..
I don't have reference material handy. If you really want some, I will try and find some again..
But basically charge the battery whenever you can or at least do not let it go below say 20 or 25 percent if you are concerned about that. Since our devices have a replaceable battery I do not stress out over it too much. If I cut 6 months off the battery and it only lasts me a year or so, I can always just put in a new one, they are not that expensive..
Now on a device without a replaceable battery is where you really have to be concerned..

Drain till 20% then recharge it. Best way to use lithium battery.

kyokeun1234 said:
Drain till 20% then recharge it. Best way to use lithium battery.
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Thank you gentlement for your advice. So far, I connect the USB cable each time I sit at the desk. Even if battery is 9x% full. I will stop doing this now.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
says it's best to keep the battery charged. best to keep the battery levels at 40-90%

ceejay83 said:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
says it's best to keep the battery charged. best to keep the battery levels at 40-90%
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Huh, I heard it was around 20%~80%...

kyokeun1234 said:
Huh, I heard it was around 20%~80%...
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yea could be, just don't discharge or overcharge the battery :good:

i haven't looked into it lately. but i'm pretty sure our phones don't discharge the battery till it's technically at 0% (~3V)
i'll run my phone down tonight and check it with a mutlimeter to verify...
i wouldn't be surprised to find out the phone stops charging the battery before it's at a true 100% either. so i guess i'll check that too.

crazy talk said:
i wouldn't be surprised to find out the phone stops charging the battery before it's at a true 100% either. so i guess i'll check that too.
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I was also puzzled by the warning of overcharging issue. I read somewhere that the GalNexus has an electronic which prevents overcharging. I am very interested by your verification if that is true. Because frankly, it would be very inconvenient to wake in the middle of every night to disconnect the charger.

2LoT said:
I was also puzzled by the warning of overcharging issue. I read somewhere that the GalNexus has an electronic which prevents overcharging. I am very interested by your verification if that is true. Because frankly, it would be very inconvenient to wake in the middle of every night to disconnect the charger.
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there are wall chargers that have timers on them, they shut off power after a custom time

You can't overcharge a phone by leaving it plugged in all night, the charging circuit only allows it to charge to a certain point. You can overcharge a phone by plugging it in everytime it hits 90% because you're being all OCD about it. Over time that will screw up your battery

The main thing you want to avoid is heat, which will seriously degrade the life of the battery. I only charge my phone once a day(before I go to bed). I've been doing this since I got my first Android device(well, my Nexus S had to be charged like 3 times a day :| ) and have never run into any premature battery failures.

speedyink said:
You can't overcharge a phone by leaving it plugged in all night, the charging circuit only allows it to charge to a certain point. You can overcharge a phone by plugging it in everytime it hits 90% because you're being all OCD about it. Over time that will screw up your battery
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Oh that's what overcharging mean? Ok thanks.

speedyink said:
You can't overcharge a phone by leaving it plugged in all night, the charging circuit only allows it to charge to a certain point. You can overcharge a phone by plugging it in everytime it hits 90% because you're being all OCD about it. Over time that will screw up your battery
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Quite the opposite is true, regarding the second part of your reply, actually.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Actually, it's never a bad time to charge a lithium battery because the charge you are using is always the oldest added. Consider it as a bucket with golf balls and a hole at the bottom. You load golf balls from the top and use them one at a time from the hole on the bottom.
All lithium batteries have circuitry built into them to prevent overcharging but at the same time the circuitry needs power to operate. If you drain your battery down to nothing and leave it uncharged for a long time the circuitry will drain the reserve and you will not be able to charge it at all.
Another fact about lithium batteries is that you can charge them more times than their natural life span. So as soon as a battery is manufactured it starts to go bad just sitting on a shelf. So buy them fresh. They have thousands of charge cycles and only about 2-3 years life. So even if you charge all cells inside 2-3 times daily (remember the bucket analogy) that's only about 1,000 charges in a year.
Also, you could plug your phone in and out 100 times during one day and still not complete one full charge cycle.
Conclusion ; charge it whenever you can, whenever you want. You'll need a new battery in about 2-3 years anyway in which time you'll most likely get a new phone.

Thanks obsanity. Oh wow, this is indeed even better. Thank you very much for the technical background explanation.
So as soon as a battery is manufactured it starts to go bad just sitting on a shelf.
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Are those the cheap batteries you find on eBay, the kind of $20 for 3 batteries?

2LoT said:
Thanks obsanity. Oh wow, this is indeed even better. Thank you very much for the technical background explanation.
Are those the cheap batteries you find on eBay, the kind of $20 for 3 batteries?
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the cheap ebay batteries use a cheap/inferior chemistry. they may be capable of the same Mah as stock for example when new, but i wouldn't count on it to age as well compared to OEM.

obsanity said:
Actually, it's never a bad time to charge a lithium battery because the charge you are using is always the oldest added. Consider it as a bucket with golf balls and a hole at the bottom. You load golf balls from the top and use them one at a time from the hole on the bottom.
All lithium batteries have circuitry built into them to prevent overcharging but at the same time the circuitry needs power to operate. If you drain your battery down to nothing and leave it uncharged for a long time the circuitry will drain the reserve and you will not be able to charge it at all.
Another fact about lithium batteries is that you can charge them more times than their natural life span. So as soon as a battery is manufactured it starts to go bad just sitting on a shelf. So buy them fresh. They have thousands of charge cycles and only about 2-3 years life. So even if you charge all cells inside 2-3 times daily (remember the bucket analogy) that's only about 1,000 charges in a year.
Also, you could plug your phone in and out 100 times during one day and still not complete one full charge cycle.
Conclusion ; charge it whenever you can, whenever you want. You'll need a new battery in about 2-3 years anyway in which time you'll most likely get a new phone.
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Thanks for the clarification!

2LoT said:
Are those the cheap batteries you find on eBay, the kind of $20 for 3 batteries?
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I would say they are not only old but also fake claims of capacity. It's actually hard to measure how much a battery can hold so they take advantage of it. Who's going to prove them wrong?

system shutdown occurs on the Galaxy Nexus at 3.39 volts (assumed, measured voltage with no load is 3.42)
in theory you could get a bit better battery life at the cost of cell longevity by running it down to 3.2 volts. assuming the system could continue to function.
EDIT: full system charge is 4.2 volts, as expected. i don't see a practical benefit to modifying the system to run at below 3.4 volts, even if possible.

Looking after battery

Hi all
Is there a definite answer to how you should charge your battery? Is it better to charge it before it gets to 40% like I have read or does it not really matter?
Also does charging it overnight do any damage?
Thanks all
Chris
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

The problem with battery care is that it has been tainted with old information that no longer applies to modern batteries.
The charging and discharging of the battery is tightly controlled by an IC to maximise life regardless of how you use it. All you need to be concerned with is making sure it doesn't sit fully discharged or fully charged for long periods (this is why when you first unbox a device it has about half charge)

Doesn't matter... just charge it when u think it s need to be charged...

High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).

Put it this way:
You will have moved on from this device long before you would notice any battery problems caused by "bump charging", charging overnight, or any other normal charging behavior.
Check the Battery University for details about charging Lithium-ion polymer.

tni.andro said:
High temperature is bad. Full charge is bad (charging 0.1V less than full generally doubles battery life). High temperature + full charge is really bad (negative synergies).
Overdischarge is bad as well, but if you stay above 3.3V or so, there should be no negative effect.
I have hacked my kernel to lower the charge voltage setting from 4.3V to a configurable value between 4V and 4.3V. I will release a kernel patch, once I have done some more testing.
BTW, a lower charge current is better for the battery as well. So if you have time, you can use a standard USB port (only provides 2.5W instead of 6W with the included charger) or add a USB extension cable/use a longer/thinner wire gauge micro USB cable (this will limit the power drawn from the included charger).
Click to expand...
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Gulp none of that made sense

chrisnewton said:
Gulp none of that made sense
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Then you need not worry about it. As I said, the battery is controlled by a fairly sophisticated IC, just charge it whenever you need to.

these batteries love refridgerators. you charge it when it comes to about 20-25%. I'm not compelling anyone, it's just that I've had this type of cycle since three years on my faithful ol' HTC Desire. Now its all burned, but I did have something to compare it with. My czn also got an htc desire a couple of days after i got it, and he is charge-freak. He charges his phone in his home, car, uni, bank, everywhere he can get his hands on a socket. The result: he's run down 4 batteries, and is on the brink of a 5th one. while I had only one throughout my three-year life cycle of my Desire.
So, try not to overheat your battery. Don't use it when charging. Charge it before you sleep at night, and let it rest for overnight. This overnight rest boosts battery life, and your charge will last almost 2 days. this is my personal experience speaking, and with the multitude of custom OC UV kernels out there, you might wanna go Chuck Norris with your battery.

Generally the most common way people damage the batteries is just by heat. Other charging ideals aren't really all that important in the grand scheme of things. The phone and chargers are smart enough to handle the other aspects.
Heat's a problem because the act of charging actually creates heat. So while you think it may not be too hot when it's charging in the mid-day sun in your car, it will be when it warms up from charging. It'll get so hot, in fact, that it may even refuse to charge, although you see this happen more on phones than tablets.
Also, don't leave your tablet dead for a month. That's bad. I don't think anyone does this, though, because what's the point of having a tablet if you leave it dead for a month?

Wall Charger 1Amp or 1.5

Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.

I am sure it will charge on either one, but how fast who knows? If you are rooted and have Magisk, download the ACC module and you can control your charging that way instead.

Le_Combattant said:
Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Older USB chargers are mostly slow 1A chargers, like the cube Apple chargers

Droid_Nut said:
I am sure it will charge on either one, but how fast who knows? If you are rooted and have Magisk, download the ACC module and you can control your charging that way instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not rooted and I don't think I gonna it

Le_Combattant said:
Hello guys,
To offert at my battery the best treatment I'm looking for a lower amperage wall charger for my Pixel 2XL.
Between 1 and 1.5 Amp it will be excellent. I read some interesting suties about battery life and how manage it and fast charge is part of that.
Thank you all anf have good evening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am an electrical engineer, and have some knowledge about how Li batteries function.
I have always wondered this, I always see people mentioning that slower charging is better for the longevity of Li-ion batteries. There is always a trade-off here. Slower charging also means the battery takes much longer to charge, and the battery stays hotter for longer period of time, which should affect it's lifetime. Fast charging also does the same thing, but the temperature is much hotter but is exposed for shorter period of time.
Now these is merely a speculation on my part, I don't have any theoretical or experimental evidence to back this up - I think regular 5V 2A charging is a balance between those two scenarios.
Also, I recall that the peak charging current is limited in P2XL, so using the stock charger shouldn't harm that much either.

Pixel 2XL is my first smartphone who do not Come hot when it charge so...
But I know that high temperature are not the best things for battery in general.
And about the level of charge ? Some people said they stop at 80% to manage battery

suhridkhan said:
I am an electrical engineer, and have some knowledge about how Li batteries function.
I have always wondered this, I always see people mentioning that slower charging is better for the longevity of Li-ion batteries. There is always a trade-off here. Slower charging also means the battery takes much longer to charge, and the battery stays hotter for longer period of time, which should affect it's lifetime. Fast charging also does the same thing, but the temperature is much hotter but is exposed for shorter period of time.
Now these is merely a speculation on my part, I don't have any theoretical or experimental evidence to back this up - I think regular 5V 2A charging is a balance between those two scenarios.
Also, I recall that the peak charging current is limited in P2XL, so using the stock charger shouldn't harm that much either.
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I use a 5 watts charger and the phone stay completely cold during the charge process.
Also there was a recent 2017 scientific paper that tested what degraded the battery. It's a really interesting read with many tested model.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...e-model-under-different-charging-stresses.pdf
Number 1 cause is high battery voltage at the end, second one is battery charging speed. Any speed faster than 1c will degrade the battery much faster.
This is why i charge at 5w plus stop charging at 80% (unless i know I'll need 100% that day, where i fully charge, but for my usage 80% is more than enough for the usual day).

von_block said:
I use a 5 watts charger and the phone stay completely cold during the charge process.
Also there was a recent 2017 scientific paper that tested what degraded the battery. It's a really interesting read with many tested model.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...e-model-under-different-charging-stresses.pdf
Number 1 cause is high battery voltage at the end, second one is battery charging speed. Any speed faster than 1c will degrade the battery much faster.
This is why i charge at 5w plus stop charging at 80% (unless i know I'll need 100% that day, where i fully charge, but for my usage 80% is more than enough for the usual day).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I charge my phone every 48h and when it is full I unplug it from wall charger. And I charge it from 20-25% (some time I go lower because of my usage)
It's your famous amazon wall charger?

Le_Combattant said:
I charge my phone every 48h and when it is full I unplug it from wall charger. And I charge it from 20-25% (some time I go lower because of my usage)
It's your famous amazon wall charger?
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Click to collapse
I download AccuBattery and charge my phone from 25% to 80% max. The app detect directly the stock capacity of my battery (3520mAh) but after my charge, the new capacity estimated is 2982%. Is the first value is reliable or I have to do some other charges?

You have to wait for about 10 cycles. It says in the application something like that.