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Hi all,
I"m new here, with a quick question based on my usage today on both the Bell and Rogers network.
I unlocked my HTC Desire Z this afternoon, and I tried it out on Rogers to see what the speeds were like. It has been an odd experience. Here's the background, and my question is below.
Background:
- Aside from being unlocked, it is as originally shipped from Bell (e.g. no root access, ROM hasn't been flashed etc.)
- APN settings were taken from Rogers' own website (e.g. using rogers-core-appl1.apn).
- Speeds tested in downtown Toronto.
Experience so far:
Bell
I get a solid HSDPA indicator all the time (save elevators etc., when there is no connection). I can remember seeing a 3G connection icon perhaps once on Bell since I got it last week. Speeds are very good, four to five bars most of the time
Rogers
I get a solid 3G icon almost all of the time, except when I'm using data, in which case it seems to switch over to the HSDPA icon. Literally, it will show a 3G, and then if I try to browse the web, the icon will immediately switch to an H from a 3G and the web page will load quite quickly.
I was concerned that it was dropping the HSDPA connection frequently, and using 3G instead -- changing towers constantly. So I tried speedtesting it. The results were completely opposite what I expected.
Speedtest Results:
Using the Speedtest.net app (from Ookla) testing against the same Oakville, ON server from Toronto, I'm getting speeds dramatically faster on Rogers. I did three speedtests for each network.
Bell:
Fastest Down: 3411 kbps Fastest Up: 1633 kbps
Slowest Down: 1969 kbps Slowest Up: 1331 kbps
Rogers:
Fastest Down: 5740 kbps Fastest Up: 3766 kbps
Slowest Down: 5405 kbps Slowest Up: 1551 kbps
Ping latency was generally slightly higher on Rogers than Bell.
Question
Does anyone understand why, on Rogers, the Desire Z would be showing a 3G until data is requested, at which time it swaps over to show an H icon (e.g. HSDPA), whereas on Bell, it shows a constant HSDPA connection?
I would have thought that it would be slower on Rogers since it was showing 3G and then the icon switches to H, but I'm guessing that the icon switch isn't really reflecting what's going on, since the speeds are faster when this icon switch occurs. Any ideas?
Many thanks in advance!
TF
Its not just the Desire Z but also most smartphones on rogers. i had a samsung galaxy and it did the same thing. However, (correct me out there, if im wrong) But i remember reading the HSDPA was inbetween 3g and 3.5g?...i dont remmeber but to me i know that Rogers is faster, my brother has a Bell phone and my speeds were always faster.
heres a bit of help i found
HSDPA is actually one of the 3G protocols.
In everyday language HSDPA is often referred to as much faster than (basic) 3G so I would call it much faster as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jark99 said:
Its not just the Desire Z but also most smartphones on rogers. i had a samsung galaxy and it did the same thing. However, (correct me out there, if im wrong) But i remember reading the HSDPA was inbetween 3g and 3.5g?...i dont remmeber but to me i know that Rogers is faster, my brother has a Bell phone and my speeds were always faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure there really is a 3.5G as such, but if there is, then HSDPA is it. It provides faster speeds than the standard 3G (UMTS) protocols. There's also HSPA+ coming out, which is even faster. HSPA+ isn't 4G, although confusingly some carriers in the US (T-Mobile I think ?) are referring to it as such.
On O2 in the UK, I get the same effect, holds at 3G then switches to HSDPA when in use. There doesn't seem to be any latency when switching and if it can't achieve HSDPA it remains at 3G. Speedtest returns about 1.5-2 Mbit which is normal.
I can only imagine its a power saving feature as from experience with the Touch Diamond 2 / Touch Pro 2, having HSDPA enabled sucked battery life significantly. I don't remember this happening on those phones either. Seems like a good idea, but would be nice to choose (always on, auto, always off)
I actually used to disable HSDPA and use 3G exclusively and consistently got 2-3 days out of both phones with moderate use. I never missed it.
Craig
craiglay said:
I can only imagine its a power saving feature as from experience with the Touch Diamond 2 / Touch Pro 2, having HSDPA enabled sucked battery life significantly. I don't remember this happening on those phones either. Seems like a good idea, but would be nice to choose (always on, auto, always off)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That must be it -- interestingly, I went into the About Phone > Network > Signal Strength menu to check it out. When the icon is showing 3G, the "Mobile network type" is UTMS. When data is being transmitted, the icon immediately switches to H and the "Mobile network type" reports HSDPA.
Very cool -- I'm going to see if this -- by itself -- extends my battery life tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback!
TF
Just FYI -- there has been a dramatic improvement in my battery life on Rogers, compared to what I was experiencing on Bell. Typically, I would be at about 40% battery life left at this point in the day (presumably because I was constantly connected to HSDPA with Bell). Whereas I'm at 80% battery life left with the Rogers 3G connection, and I've still been connected to Wi-Fi for the past five hours and browsing reasonably heavily.
Thanks for your help in sorting this out everybody.
TF
Interesting, as Bell has rolled out several HSPA+ areas, Toronto being one of them, and Rogers still only has HSPA.
What I found odd on my DZ (still on Bells network) is that my Network Mode is GSM / WCDMA auto (never seen this on any other handset I've hand that's been HSDPA) and I understand that the HSDPA networks here are CDMA with a GSM overlay (ie, the need for a SIM card, etc) and I frequently see my icon changing from 3G to H (again, this is only on my DZ), but Bell only has a CDMA EVDO 3G network and the HSPA "3G+" network, there's not really a GSM enabled 3G network.
I'm confused, as on my Telus Milestone, it's constantly H, never once seen 3G appear on it, and Telus and Bell share their network.
Maybe I'm just horribly misinformed.
I donno if it is just me but I seem to be getting ridiculously slow 3G speeds here on my unlocked Desire Z using Rogers. I go to school in Hamilton at McMaster and most of the times the 3G is nigh on unusable because of its speeds. I don't know if it is an app or anything that has caused it because it was never slow when I first got the phone.
I am running the virtuous rom 0.72 atm. I do have half a mind to just factory reset the device adn see if that fixes the issues however I really don't want to lose all of my contacts and other settings that I have on this device.
TravelFiend said:
Rogers
I get a solid 3G icon almost all of the time, except when I'm using data, in which case it seems to switch over to the HSDPA icon. Literally, it will show a 3G, and then if I try to browse the web, the icon will immediately switch to an H from a 3G and the web page will load quite quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same thing happening to me with Galaxy S,and this started a few days ago.
I unlocked my phone and I am using it on Telenor Serbia a and past two weeks it was just H all the time,now it's 3g all the time and when I start browsing it switch to H again and it work well,but why do that,should I be concern?
VladaP85 said:
The same thing happening to me with Galaxy S,and this started a few days ago.
I unlocked my phone and I am using it on Telenor Serbia a and past two weeks it was just H all the time,now it's 3g all the time and when I start browsing it switch to H again and it work well,but why do that,should I be concern?
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Click to collapse
For me on O2 UK, it depends on the area.. Sometimes its solid 3G, sometimes solid H and sometimes 3G when idle, H when in use.. I guess its the base station software / hardware..
Craig
HAK Devil said:
I do have half a mind to just factory reset the device adn see if that fixes the issues however I really don't want to lose all of my contacts and other settings that I have on this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've snyced with google then your contacts will just sync back. And I go to school at Mac as well and usually the speeds are really slow inside any buildings... If i don't have full bars then the speed will be crap, otherwise they are fine. But I am on Fido, not Bell.
Also, I thought that Bell didn't have a 2G GSM network? If that is the case then that could be why only H would be appearing...
craiglay said:
For me on O2 UK, it depends on the area.. Sometimes its solid 3G, sometimes solid H and sometimes 3G when idle, H when in use.. I guess its the base station software / hardware..
Craig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why this start to happen two day ago and not before... Should I call my operator or it's up to my phone. Maybe to do factory reset of change rom...
VladaP85 said:
But why this start to happen two day ago and not before... Should I call my operator or it's up to my phone. Maybe to do factory reset of change rom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be anything to be honest.. Your operator could have updated the base station.
It seems the phone is designed to do this probably to save power, HSDPA is battery intensive so having the phone in 3G while in standby probably saves quite a bit of power..
You could try emailing HTC with the question before your operator.
Regards
Craig
TravelFiend said:
Just FYI -- there has been a dramatic improvement in my battery life on Rogers, compared to what I was experiencing on Bell. Typically, I would be at about 40% battery life left at this point in the day (presumably because I was constantly connected to HSDPA with Bell). Whereas I'm at 80% battery life left with the Rogers 3G connection, and I've still been connected to Wi-Fi for the past five hours and browsing reasonably heavily.
Thanks for your help in sorting this out everybody.
TF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you switched your phone to stay in umts only to get this dramatic battery gain?
craiglay said:
It could be anything to be honest.. Your operator could have updated the base station.
It seems the phone is designed to do this probably to save power, HSDPA is battery intensive so having the phone in 3G while in standby probably saves quite a bit of power..
You could try emailing HTC with the question before your operator.
Regards
Craig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My phone is Samsung I9000 Galaxy S So maybe I will email Samsung...
Thanks,
Regards
From my understanding
GSM = 1G
GPRS= 2G = G
EDGE = 2.5G = E
UMTS = 3G = 3G
HSDPA/HSDUPA/HSPA+=3.5G = H
Since Rogers has all the above mentioned transceiver systems you will see that mostly on the Rogers network Android phones tend to stay on UMTS=3G switching to H only when more data throughput is required.
The battery life is much better on UMTS vs HSDPA hence you will get a better battery life on Rogers vs Bell.
Bell only has a HSDPA/HSPA+ network hence you will only see H
I am not claiming to be a 100% on this
Just my 2 cents by putting together 1 and 1
xdjneo said:
GSM = 1G
GPRS= 2G = G
EDGE = 2.5G = E
UMTS = 3G = 3G
HSDPA/HSDUPA/HSPA+=3.5G = H
Since Rogers has all the above mentioned transceiver systems you will see that mostly on the Rogers network Android phones tend to stay on UMTS=3G switching to H only when more data throughput is required.
The battery life is much better on UMTS vs HSDPA hence you will get a better battery life on Rogers vs Bell.
Bell only has a HSDPA/HSPA+ network hence you will only see H
I am not claiming to be a 100% on this
Just my 2 cents by putting together 1 and 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nearly there (source Wikipedia),
GSM is 2G
GPRS is 2.5G
EDGE is 2.75G
UTMS is 3G
HSxPA is 3.5G
I would put HSPA+ as 3.75G as its slightly different to HSxPA but would settle for 3.5G
Broadly speaking battery life reduces the higher the generation but I think UTMS can be more efficient than 2.xG sometimes. (NOT HS... which is generally terrible all over hence the behaviour between 3G and H)
I always used to disable HSxPA because of the battery life, its just not easy on this phone. It requires root and editing a prop file..
Craig
Anyone know what the "G" means in the connection status area where one normally sees "3G" or "E"? I don't see it often, and when I do it seems to be in areas with weak 3G coverage. However, I know I am not mistaken, it is just "G", no "3G", just "G." Also, I never see the "H" that some report in the connection status area, even though I am in an area where HSDPA+ is active. I know I cannot get HSDPA+ speeds on the Slide, but I consistently get 3-4 Mbps down and 1-2 Mbps up (D.C. metro).
G is for GPRS which is even slower than edge. It's what I live with constantly here in Barbados.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Haha, thanks bajansurfer! I didn't even think about that. Didn't even think GPRS existed anymore...lol Sorry about your speeds bajansurfer, maybe I am just too spoiled.
No problem, and yes it sucks! Can't wait to get 3G here! hopefully next year
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
kmdub said:
Also, I never see the "H" that some report in the connection status area, even though I am in an area where HSDPA+ is active. I know I cannot get HSDPA+ speeds on the Slide, but I consistently get 3-4 Mbps down and 1-2 Mbps up (D.C. metro).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youre probably not going to see an H if you have stock, but im surprised you havent figured out that the 3-4 mbps is hspa+ that you are connected with.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Well, I have figured out that the 3-4 Mbps is HSPA+. What I meant was that I know there is HSPA+ in my area, and it helps overall speed, regardless of whether the phone is capable of it or not. The Slide hardware does not do HSPA+. I still thought the H would show up for HSPA connections whether HSPA+ or not. Guess not though if you are saying stock ROM's won't show it, since that is what I run, completely stock.
Yeah the only two phones capable of HSPA+ are the G2 and the mt4g. 3-4 mbps is HSPA. If you were connected to HSPA+ it would be more around 7-10 mbps, if I remember correctly. The only stock rom I've seen an H in is the G2's, but both the G1 and the G2 have had fairly stock android roms, not heavily modified sense, its kind of the style of those phones.
Is this an Android feature or is there something wrong with my 3G?
What happens is that whenever I am using my browser and searching on Google and my data connection shows 3G, when I click something it switches to H. Then, after page load, it changes back to 3G.
It makes me wonder if something is wrong with my 3G, or it is some battery-optimizing done by the phone.
Am I missing something? I did not notice this with my HTC Desire, it stayed on 3G or H until connectivity became worse or better.
perfectly normal,as 3G just being the band you can be called on,but once you start browsing and download stuf,your conection turns into HSPDA(thus the H) this is the data conection integrated in 3G(its faster than actual 3G)
you can see it as a download mode.
H is just a download indicator if you ask me.
thus maybe your HTC was downloading constand or had a lower refresh rate?
the described action you present is pretty common on my nexus S
Yes this is normal behaviour in stock Android.
Great to hear, thanks
Yeah it was constant on my HTC Desire, either on H or 3G. Apps were the same, so I don't think Desire did some background work that Nexus isn't doing.
I like it, thanks!
Every phone I've had from the Nexus One would do this - usually stock roms don't show an "H," only 3G, so you can't tell that it's switching between.
My HTC desire would switch between 3g and h on Orange but if I roamed on to t mobile it would permanently show as H. I guess it can also depend on the network.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
You don't want it to stay on H .. it uses heaps more battery. There's also limited capacity on the network to support H connections. If everyone connected in H they would run out. It's meant to be temporary while you need to download a webpage, etc.
Mine is doing this too
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I think there's been a thread on this already, but just to reiterate:
This is just a feature of UMTS and HSPA. Using HSPA takes more battery than UMTS or EDGE, so you only want it on when you are actively downloading or uploading data. Otherwise, UMTS serves just fine for background data and syncing.
When you're reading a web page (your example), there's not a lot of data being transfered, and you're sitting on UMTS. As soon as you click a link, it switches to HSPA, pulls down the info, and switches back again.
To my knowledge, stock android shows the difference between 3G and H pretty accurately. Carrier and/or manufacturer customized ROMs often tend to lead towards leaving "H"/"H+"/"4G" in the status bar more than 3G. If you watch your "about phone" > "status" screen, you'll see your phone switches between UMTS and HSPA quite often, even if the interface is preferring to show you "H". I think its mostly a marketing tactic that also reduces customer confusion.
So bottom line, you should be happy it switches to save your battery!
I have this and trust me, it cains battery.
I have never seen H in my Nexus S.
So this is good
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
gogol said:
I have never seen H in my Nexus S.
So this is good
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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Click to collapse
That's because the Nexus S is a 3G phone that doesn't have the hardware required to transmit HSPA+ signal.
matt2053 said:
That's because the Nexus S is a 3G phone that doesn't have the hardware required to transmit HSPA+ signal.
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Click to collapse
The Nexus S is HSPA capable. just not HSPA+.
Actually HSPA doesn't use _more_ battery when you're camping. It only uses more battery while transferring, but even thats debatable. Eg 10mb downloaded in 1 minute over HSPA vs 5 minutes on 3G - which uses more battery to complete the task?
What does use extra battery is IF it has to switch to another tower to get you HSPA. However the network is pretty smart at choosing the most efficient thing to do, although it is biased to move people to towers which allow the most number of subscribers to be on the network. For example, if you are in a built up area and there are 3 towers within range, one perhaps right next to you, you may be switched to one further away so that one can service a user on the edge of its signal area. Although this uses more of your battery, it allows both of you to use the network rather than just 1.
Booo. So I just upgraded from a mt4g (the old one) to a GN, and now when I stream Sirius, it cuts out as it switches between H & 3G. I used Wifi today because it was driving me crazy. I wish there was a switch to turn off 4G, not 3G also.
every time i browse the net on my Note 2 I'm getting "H+" on the status bar in my area while at the same time whenever i call someone i get 3G at the same place, so what is the difference between them? which is better? sorry if it is a noob quastion
H+ is for HSDPA+, which delivers much higher speeds than normal 3G. Technically it is an upgraded 3G network. so if you have H+ then your network is faster than if you get only 3G. and H+ is used only for data download. so you will not see it in normal voice calls.
Based on your network, Note II can handle H+ speeds up to 42Mbps. 3G is only 384kbps.
tmrbaset said:
H+ is for HSDPA+, which delivers much higher speeds than normal 3G. Technically it is an upgraded 3G network. so if you have H+ then your network is faster than if you get only 3G. and H+ is used only for data download. so you will not see it in normal voice calls.
Based on your network, Note II can handle H+ speeds up to 42Mbps. 3G is only 384kbps.
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Click to collapse
thanks alot man for the explanation i thought it is something weaker than 3g, i appreciate your answer :good:
Here for the diff speeds
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=639115
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Capable of 42Mbps!? I can't imagine anyone ever gets anywhere near that. I only get 35Mbps on my home computer with cable internet.
With H+ in my area, I generally get somewhere around 3Mbps maybe a little higher.
What is the max speed of LTE supposed to be?
Now that I know my phone is capable of 42Mbps (which is faster then my home connection), I really have no problem with not having an LTE phone. Especially since the max speed is probably as probable as seeing a unicorn.
Not to put a damper on it, but H+ doesnt mean DCHSPA as my N7100 shows that symbol and its not DCHSPA capable.
kebabs said:
Not to put a damper on it, but H+ doesnt mean DCHSPA as my N7100 shows that symbol and its not DCHSPA capable.
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Click to collapse
That's because H+ means HSPA+. Unless that's what DCHSPA is, but I've never heard it called that before. Even then, are you sure about that? HSPA+ is listed in the specs for this phone.
HSDPA, 42 Mbps; HSUPA, 5.76 Mbps; LTE, Cat3, 50 Mbps UL, 100 Mbps DL
H+ is faster than 3g without a doubt
DCHSDPA is known as dual channel ie three uk are dishing it out but us n7100 owners nothing to get excited over its not supported..
Mainly only lte models have dchsdpa only a couple of non lte devices have it
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
E_Goldstein said:
HSDPA, 42 Mbps; HSUPA, 5.76 Mbps; LTE, Cat3, 50 Mbps UL, 100 Mbps DL
H+ is faster than 3g without a doubt
DCHSDPA is known as dual channel ie three uk are dishing it out but us n7100 owners nothing to get excited over its not supported..
Mainly only lte models have dchsdpa only a couple of non lte devices have it
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Well, that sort of clears it up. (Although I don't fully get it, I sorta do) Not like it really matters though. No one is going to get anywhere close to what those technologies are capable of anyways. If they ever do, we will probably all be on our next device anyways(probably more like a few devices down the road).
Hello
My question is this, i would like to know something about this connections.
Is normal that the phone never is on 3g? Because imagine if i change to 2 g connection i get the E network but if hi uncheck the 2 g i get only H and H plus but never the 3 g symbl.
Is this H the same like 3g?
Because on my last phone, ideos x5, when i choose the 3 g connection i get the 3g on idle and h on full speed.
Was hi clear enough?
yes, H is equivalent to 3g and E is equivalent to 2g.
3g= third generation = hspa & hsdpa networks
2G
G - GPRS
E - EDGE
3G
3G - UMTS
H - HSDPA/HSPA
H+ - HSPAP
Your cell tower probably doesn't support UMTS and only runs on HSDPA
Thanks guys. now i understand
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
HSPA Signal Analyzer or Log?
So I have a question. I've had a lot of connection speed issues with my GNex. When i'm in full H coverage (Signal indicates HSPA:15+) I rarely get more than 1-2 MB/S downstream. The Tmobile rep says I should have great coverage here (Macon, GA). My Wife's 3G phone is faster than my GNex. When I did the dial codes to force my phone to 3G, I got really nice speeds on Speedtest.net.
So what i'd l ike to do is somehow analyze the signal when I'm in HSPA mode. I'm curious if the phone keeps any kind of log or record of the transmissions between the phone and the provider. Is there any app out there that will log, for instance: lost packets, authentification errors, or any other things like that?
I've searched high and low and haven't found a thread yet that mentions any type of signal log (other than perhaps a graphical display of the amount of signal you have). I'm not concerned with signal strength...what I'm thinking is somehow, my phone isn't playing nice on the TMobile network.
thanks in advance! Rooted options and debug mode options are certainly welcome and encouraged. I will without a doubt need something running deeper than in User space.
Typically its not signal that determines your down and upstream speeds but whether or not the market you live in supports HSDPA and whether or not its optimized for faster speeds. I did read that you forced your phone into 3G and you got descent speeds afterwards. Was this on the same area of your residence or where you experience issues? Do note that with T-Mobile, 3G and HSDPA are the same, however there might be more than one UMTS/HSDPA band in your area.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
There is good signal in my area. T-Mobile site says excellent 4g here. A nexus 4 at their store was consistently getting almost 20mb/s down... So I should definitely be getting faster speeds...
The website is a horrible guide to go by. I'm marked for excellent reception yet I only get 3 down and 2 up.
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OK but as I've said... Other HSPA+ phones in my area are getting 15-20mb/s.
See... what is up with this!!????
I know the signal bars say 3G but when the test was running it was full bars of hspa. What in the world?
My phone info is attached too
lordneeko said:
OK but as I've said... Other HSPA+ phones in my area are getting 15-20mb/s.
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Click to collapse
If another Galaxy Nexus side to side performs better then there is an issue. Also keep in mind that the max a GSM GN will pull is hardly ever going to surpass 10mbps since its an HSPA+21 headset while newer devices are HSPA+42, which have higher theoretical speeds.
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---------- Post added at 11:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------
lordneeko said:
See... what is up with this!!????
I know the signal bars say 3G but when the test was running it was full bars of hspa. What in the world?
My phone info is attached too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, its the market or the towers you are connected to. There's nothing you can do to about it except wait and hope the perform performance upgrades on the towers.
My GN:
Mom's T989(SGSII)
Signal:
Same house, side to side tests.
I've been to downtown Houston and my speeds nearly double.
Have I helped? Don't forget to make love to that "Thanks" button!
If I could routinely get above 3mb/s I would be ecstatic... If I ever hit 10 I would jump up and down giggling like a school girl.